What is your personal answer to some of these what ifs about all-time greats

[coastalmarker99]

What would Duncan’s legacy be if Amare doesn’t get suspended, and Nash doesn’t break his nose in 07? What about if Duncan’s team wins in 2013 and he has 6 rings, is he seen as good as Kareem and MJ?

- What would Shaq’s legacy be if they don’t get favourable calls against the Kings in 02, or 06 for that matter vs the Mavs? What about if Shaq's team wins in 1995 and 2004 and he has 6 rings and 5 finals Mvps is he seen as good as Lebron and MJ?

- What would Lebron’s legacy be if Ray Allen doesn’t hit arguably the most impressive shot in history? Or if he and Kyrie don’t both hit super clutch shots against the Warriors in game 7? What about if Lebron's team wins in 2011 and 2015 and he has now 6 rings nowadays is he now seen as the goat over MJ?



What would Wilt's legacy be if he wins those 3 straight game sevens he lost from 1968 to 1970 and as a result, he finishes his career with 5 rings and 4 finals MVPs is he now seen as being better all time than Kareem nowadays?

[coastalmarker99]

Shaq's what if is deeply interesting to me as if he wins in 1995 and 2004 then he now has a perfect finals record of 6 and 0 to go along with 5 finals MVPs plus a goat peak from 2000 to 2002.


I think as a result of that you would have to put Shaq in the goat debate alongside Jordan and Lebron as winning a title with the Magic alongside Penny in less than 4 years would have been legendary especially if he now beats a prime Hakeem in the 1995 finals to do it.

[coastalmarker99]

I think the 95 title specifically would've boosted Shaq's legacy significantly along with his already large Ego (and by contrast, without it Hakeem's legacy probably would be judged differently by both fans and media(



The 2004 title can be explained that the Lakers were massive favourites heading into that final series so I don't think most people would care if Shaq wins the title and finals Mvp that season it would look great for his legacy but It wouldn't have the same effect as 1995 would.

[rmt]

What would Duncan’s legacy be if Amare doesn’t get suspended, and Nash doesn’t break his nose in 07? What about if Duncan’s team wins in 2013 and he has 6 rings, is he seen as good as Kareem and MJ?

- What would Shaq’s legacy be if they don’t get favourable calls against the Kings in 02, or 06 for that matter vs the Mavs? What about if Shaq's team wins in 1995 and 2004 and he has 6 rings and 5 finals Mvps is he seen as good as Lebron and MJ?

- What would Lebron’s legacy be if Ray Allen doesn’t hit arguably the most impressive shot in history? Or if he and Kyrie don’t both hit super clutch shots against the Warriors in game 7? What about if Lebron's team wins in 2011 and 2015 and he has now 6 rings nowadays is he now seen as the goat over MJ?



What would Wilt's legacy be if he wins those 3 straight game sevens he lost from 1968 to 1970 and as a result, he finishes his career with 5 rings and 4 finals MVPs is he now seen as being better all time than Kareem nowadays?

I'll address Duncan:

Spurs strategy vs Suns (which more often than not worked) was to let Amare and Nash have theirs and shut down the others (3 point shooters). Amare/Nash were not enough to beat the Spurs especially since on the other side they couldn't stop the Spurs/Duncan (27.4 pts/13.8 rebs - 2005, 26.8 pts/13.7 rebs - 2007, 24.8 pts/13.8 rebs - 2008).

I could just as easily say: what if in 2004, Fisher's .04 shot didn't fall in, what if Manu hadn't fouled Dirk in 2006 - that would have been a 5-peat (2003-2007)

[2much_knowledge]

2007 was phoenix year man. They deserve that tittle. Not my team but that decision was a disgrace. They were going all the way

[meat]

I think the 95 title specifically would've boosted Shaq's legacy significantly along with his already large Ego (and by contrast, without it Hakeem's legacy probably would be judged differently by both fans and media(



The 2004 title can be explained that the Lakers were massive favourites heading into that final series so I don't think most people would care if Shaq wins the title and finals Mvp that season it would look great for his legacy but It wouldn't have the same effect as 1995 would.

Shaq had no excuse then he was still skinny. He probably shouldn't have even been there in 95.

My answer is fat Shaq. If he stayed in shape he could have won at least 2 more.

[coastalmarker99]

I'll address Duncan:

Spurs strategy vs Suns (which more often than not worked) was to let Amare and Nash have theirs and shut down the others (3 point shooters). Amare/Nash were not enough to beat the Spurs especially since on the other side they couldn't stop the Spurs/Duncan (27.4 pts/13.8 rebs - 2005, 26.8 pts/13.7 rebs - 2007, 24.8 pts/13.8 rebs - 2008).

I could just as easily say: what if in 2004, Fisher's .04 shot didn't fall in, what if Manu hadn't fouled Dirk in 2006 - that would have been a 5-peat (2003-2007)




Well, Duncan with a 5 peat would have been crazy as I honestly think they beat every single east team in the finals those years if they had gotten out of West.



The 2004 finals would have been very tough but I think the Spurs get it done in 7 as they did in 2005 vs the Pistons.


In the 2006 finals, I think they beat a weak Miami team in 6 or 5 games as there is no way Wade is pulling off what he did against the Mavs vs the Spurs elite defence.



So therefore Duncan would have now 7 rings for his career to go along with 5 finals MVPs and a 5 peat to boot in the modern era as well so he would have to be in the goat debate as a result of that.

[coastalmarker99]

Lebron winning 11 and 15 easily puts him at consensus GOAT in my eyes. 11 is his biggest choke by far and 15 he nearly won FMVP on a losing team without Love or Kyrie. Heck if he wins in 2015 with that Cavs team I’d have to imagine he’d be the GOAT nowadays over Jordan. Now If the Kyrie shot gets reversed I don’t think he could pass MJ, the 3-1 comeback on a 73 win team is easily the most impressive part of his current resume and without it, it wouldn’t be on the same level as it is now

For Duncan, I do think an extra Ring + FMVP (I think he was the front runner had they won) would put him consensus top 4 right? that’s a b2b in 13 and 14 (a noticeable criticism of his resume), you kinda have to put him over Lebron at that point (3-0 against Lebron in the finals?) and Lebron minus the ring in 13 would still be a top 5 player of all time. If Duncan had 4 rings I don’t think it changes too much, I guess he’s currently in that like 6-10 range all time, he’d get a small bump down but not that much.

Shaq was a number 2 per say in 06 so I don’t think it’d impact him that much to not win in 2006 but I think not 3 peating in 02 would have a bigger impact cause the 3 peat is his greatest feat and had the Lakers not reached then his resume wouldn’t look as good. While Shaq winning in 95 and 04 is definitely Top 3. 4 rings and finals MVPs in 5 years plus a goat peak means that he now becomes the goat center over Kareem and Wilt.

[AussieSteve]

An all time great what if for me is

What if Charles Barkley had a coach as good as Phil and a back court team mate as good as Pippen at Philly?

How does this impact both Jordan and Barkley's career?

[baudkarma]

Duncan is an interesting case, because while you can argue that the Spurs could have easily lost to the Nuggets in 2007, they also had a very good chance to win in 2004 and 2006, for a five-peat. 2004 in was Fishers shot with 0.4 left that turned the series around. In 2006 it was Manus dumb foul on Dirk in game six of the semis that allowed the Mavs to win that series and ultimately go on to lose to the Heat in the Finals. A couple of little things that could have gone either way, and if they did we might be talking about a five-peat.

[coastalmarker99]

Duncan is an interesting case, because while you can argue that the Spurs could have easily lost to the Nuggets in 2007, they also had a very good chance to win in 2004 and 2006, for a five-peat. 2004 in was Fishers shot with 0.4 left that turned the series around. In 2006 it was Manus dumb foul on Dirk in game six of the semis that allowed the Mavs to win that series and ultimately go on to lose to the Heat in the Finals. A couple of little things that could have gone either way, and if they did we might be talking about a five-peat.



Yep and if that happens then Spurs are the goat dynasty by far in NBA history and Duncan is regarded as the goat or at the very least has a very serious case to be the goat over both Jordan and Lebron.

[Ainosterhaspie]

What if the Pistons got the first pick instead of the second pick in the 2003 draft. LeBron could have opened his career with multiple FMVPs in his rookie contract including one his rookie season over the Lakers super team. Wouldn't have had to do much either. Just slot him in for Hamilton and you're set. 50/50 he get FMVP first year and becomes and instant legend. So many of the lame narratives against him would have never got off the ground.

Sad thing is, ping pong balls shouldn't change a player's legacy, but going to a dumpsterfire Cleveland franchise instead of the ready to win despite not having a superstar franchise, changed his career arc completely.