Here's why Jordan deserves some major blame for losing to the bad boys again in 1990.

[coastalmarker99]

While 3 ball makes it seems as if the 1990 Ecf lost to the Bad Boys was all Pippens fault.

He has not a single mention to the fact that MJ just wasn't himself in the games played in Detroit throughout that series

26.7ppg with 41% FG in the 4 games in Detroit

39.3ppg with 52% FG in the 3 games in Chicago



That is an utter choke job by Jordan as that is a thirteen point decline along with a 10 percent field goal percentage decline and it should be noted that some of those road games were close so if Jordan plays as well as he did at home then the Bulls win that series.


Overall Jordan to his credit did average 32ppg for the series but we all know that today he would've had been rightfully killed by media and fans for those performances in Detroit.

Unfair? yep, but that's how NBA scrutiny works today for superstars such as Lebron James.

Instead, Pippen who was sick as a dog in game 7 got most of the blame by fans and media for the Bulls losing that series.

[8Ball]

Isiah Thomas beat jordan 3 years in a row.

[coastalmarker99]

Isiah Thomas beat jordan 3 years in a row.

Indeed he did

[2much_knowledge]

Are you kidding me with this thread. You take away Mjs production and its blowouts in everygame and a sweep. Game 7 is a clean slate. You push the series tonthe limit vs the champs. Pippen got punk'd all series to the point of not being able to play anymore

His own quote was. " Maybe it was the pressure of the game, the pressure grew, the pounding grew, i wasn't able to answer the bell"

One year later, pippen mans up, they sweep.

[2much_knowledge]

Isiah Thomas beat jordan 3 years in a row.

Just how Boston used to son lebron. Difference is, he didn't train harder and beat them with his team. He flew away, joined his buddies, promised 7 rings and went 5 short lol

Forever a coward

[coastalmarker99]

Are you kidding me with this thread. You take away Mjs production and its blowouts in everygame and a sweep. Game 7 is a clean slate. You push the series tonthe limit vs the champs. Pippen got punk'd all series to the point of not being able to play anymore

His own quote was. " Maybe it was the pressure of the game, the pressure grew, the pounding grew, i wasn't able to answer the bell"

One year later, pippen mans up, they sweep.

If people blame Lebron for losing in 2009 to the Magic despite averaging 38 8 and 8 then Jordan also deserves to cop some blame for losing this series as he disappeared on the road throughout the three games he played on the Pistons homecourt.

[Reggie43]

Pretty weird to nitpick his games like that, its not as if he played a totally different team at home lol. Its pretty much Jordan/Lebron stan troll logic.

[2much_knowledge]

If people blame Lebron for losing in 2009 to the Magic despite averaging 38 8 and 8 then Jordan also deserves to cop some blame for losing this series as he disappeared on the road throughout the three games he played on the Pistons homecourt.

Ohh , so this is what this thread is about. Damage control. Lebron has nothing to do with this post but i guess can't discuss one without mentioning the other

[8Ball]

Just how Boston used to son lebron. Difference is, he didn't train harder and beat them with his team. He flew away, joined his buddies, promised 7 rings and went 5 short lol

Forever a coward

LeBron has beaten Boston 5x in the playoffs and lost twice.


Now stay on topic you coward.

Jordan lost 3x in a row to Isiah Thomas. Basically a nobody outplayed Jordan 3 years in a row.

Don't be upset over it.

[Bronbron23]

While 3 ball makes it seems as if the 1990 Ecf lost to the Bad Boys was all Pippens fault.

He has not a single mention to the fact that MJ just wasn't himself in the games played in Detroit throughout that series

26.7ppg with 41% FG in the 4 games in Detroit

39.3ppg with 52% FG in the 3 games in Chicago



That is an utter choke job by Jordan as that is a thirteen point decline along with a 10 percent field goal percentage decline and it should be noted that some of those road games were close so if Jordan plays as well as he did at home then the Bulls win that series.


Overall Jordan to his credit did average 32ppg for the series but we all know that today he would've had been rightfully killed by media and fans for those performances in Detroit.

Unfair? yep, but that's how NBA scrutiny works today for superstars such as Lebron James.

Instead, Pippen who was sick as a dog in game 7 got most of the blame by fans and media for the Bulls losing that series.

Of course he deserves most of the blame. That's how it should be. Same when bron loses or any other atg loses.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ironically that's the Detroit series I think Jordan deserves the least amount of criticism for. Just to be clear, I don't think he's to blame for any of the losses, those first 2 he still had good series, but they were far from where his typical level of play and production was.

In '88 he sees a Wilt like (sorry OP) 8 ppg drop off against the Pistons, going from 35 ppg on 60% TS in the regular season to 27 on 55% against the Pistons, that's a huge drop off. Those last 3 games especially after stealing a game in Detroit, 24/7/5 on 45%, that's extremely mortal for prime MJ

In '89 he has another drop off, though it's not nearly as pronounced as the year before, going from 33 ppg on 61%TS in the regular season to 30 on 56% against Detroit. After taking a 2-1 lead Jordan has an eerily similar finish to the series, averaging 24/4/9 on 45% over the final 3 games, another extremely mortal stretch of play for prime MJ

Now, he did have very pedestrian performances in Games 2 & 5 in the '90 series, but he definitely played the cloesest to his capabilities in this series than he did the previous two years. I especially can't blame him when his supporting cast in Game 7 might literally have the worst production for a critical playoff game in playoff history

Pippen: 2 points on 1/10
Grant: 10 points on 3/17
Hodges: 8 points on 3/13
Cartwright: 6 points on 3/9
Armstrong: 2 points on 1/8

Grand total: 28 points on 11/57. Nobody in the world is beating a team of Detroit's caliber with their supporting cast playing like that lol

[hateraid]

While 3 ball makes it seems as if the 1990 Ecf lost to the Bad Boys was all Pippens fault.

He has not a single mention to the fact that MJ just wasn't himself in the games played in Detroit throughout that series

26.7ppg with 41% FG in the 4 games in Detroit

39.3ppg with 52% FG in the 3 games in Chicago



That is an utter choke job by Jordan as that is a thirteen point decline along with a 10 percent field goal percentage decline and it should be noted that some of those road games were close so if Jordan plays as well as he did at home then the Bulls win that series.


Overall Jordan to his credit did average 32ppg for the series but we all know that today he would've had been rightfully killed by media and fans for those performances in Detroit.

Unfair? yep, but that's how NBA scrutiny works today for superstars such as Lebron James.

Instead, Pippen who was sick as a dog in game 7 got most of the blame by fans and media for the Bulls losing that series.

The leader always shoulders the blame. Period. Facts Jordan crazies don't understand

[mehyaM24]

major blame? as in alot of it? agreed because jordan stunk it up on the road. 5/16 shooting in game 2 & 7/19 shooting in game 5 is simply not getting it done. for the series though jordan averaged 32/7/6 on 47% shooting. and overall a 13 BPM which is ATG, superstar production. in game 7 pippen had a migraine (though played all but 8 minutes) and jordan's teammates shot a combined 19% from the field. that's compared to jordan himself who shot 48% and put up 31/9/8. so who knows what would've happened had the bulls shown up.

jordan deserves flack, but i don't place the blame solely on his shoulders. not unless i flatout ignore production.

however the series he deserves a HEAP of blame is the one a year prior. chicago was 2-2 with detroit and jordan only shoots 8 times in game 5. think about that. the nba's greatest shotjacker, with a chance to go up 3-2 on the "dynasty pistons", could only muster up 8 attempts lol. we hear about lebron's "meltdown" but this game is swept under the rug by jordan fans.

[tpols]

So MJ when hes choking still puts up triple the production pippen does and its Jordan's fault?

:biggums:

It speaks to the GOAT standard that he needs to drop 40 a game against an all time great defense that's doubling him non stop for you to be satisfied with his performance.

[hateraid]

So MJ when hes choking still puts up triple the production pippen does and its Jordan's fault?

:biggums:

It speaks to the GOAT standard that he needs to drop 40 a game against an all time great defense that's doubling him non stop for you to be satisfied with his performance.

No...it says he choked on the road. Period. No spins. Pretty straight forward

[Shooter]

Isiah Thomas beat jordan 3 years in a row.

Talking about getting plowed

IS THERE NO ONE ELSE

[Shooter]

MJ needed a series like LeBron's 2018 EC 1st round vs Pacers where he went full GOAT and his teammates lacked severely. He needed an LBJ moment.

But he couldn't do it.

[2much_knowledge]

Ironically that's the Detroit series I think Jordan deserves the least amount of criticism for. Just to be clear, I don't think he's to blame for any of the losses, those first 2 he still had good series, but they were far from where his typical level of play and production was.

In '88 he sees a Wilt like (sorry OP) 8 ppg drop off against the Pistons, going from 35 ppg on 60% TS in the regular season to 27 on 55% against the Pistons, that's a huge drop off. Those last 3 games especially after stealing a game in Detroit, 24/7/5 on 45%, that's extremely mortal for prime MJ

In '89 he has another drop off, though it's not nearly as pronounced as the year before, going from 33 ppg on 61%TS in the regular season to 30 on 56% against Detroit. After taking a 2-1 lead Jordan has an eerily similar finish to the series, averaging 24/4/9 on 45% over the final 3 games, another extremely mortal stretch of play for prime MJ

Now, he did have very pedestrian performances in Games 2 & 5 in the '90 series, but he definitely played the cloesest to his capabilities in this series than he did the previous two years. I especially can't blame him when his supporting cast in Game 7 might literally have the worst production for a critical playoff game in playoff history

Pippen: 2 points on 1/10
Grant: 10 points on 3/17
Hodges: 8 points on 3/13
Cartwright: 6 points on 3/9
Armstrong: 2 points on 1/8

Grand total: 28 points on 11/57. Nobody in the world is beating a team of Detroit's caliber with their supporting cast playing like that lol

They can't handle intelligent, insightful facts. Expect an out of topic one liner. House specialty lol

[RRR3]

They can't handle intelligent, insightful facts. Expect an out of topic one liner. House specialty lol
That post isn’t agreeing with your MJ slobbering, but I guess you’re too dumb to realize it.

[hateraid]

They can't handle intelligent, insightful facts. Expect an out of topic one liner. House specialty lol

Ironic you don't apply that same knowledge with Lebron. But you're not bias right?

05' Zydrunas..... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 team defense
90' Pippen......... 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 team defense

[Xiao Yao You]

MJ losing to the defending champs and favorites. Lebron stans need to try harder

[dankok8]

1988 vs. Detroit: 27.4/8.8/4.7 on 54.9 %TS (+1.2 rTS) with 3.6 topg
1989 vs. Detroit: 29.7/5.5/6.5 on 56.1 %TS (+2.4 rTS) with 3.7 topg
1990 vs. Detroit: 32.1/7.1/6.3 on 56.6 %TS (+2.9 rTS) with 2.9 topg

If even 27/9/5 on 55 %TS is a bad series (let alone 32/7/6 on 57 %TS he averaged in 1990...) that just shows what kind of standard we are holding MJ to. Because any other GOAT candidate (Kareem, Lebron...) has multiple series much worse than MJ's 1988 series against the Pistons. That's a just a fact whether people like it or not.

Jordan lost to the Pistons in those years because his team was bad. Even superman like Jordan can't win without a supporting cast. And yes if Pippen gave him a 22/7/7 in that Game 7 with his usually great defense, the Bulls in all likelihood move on and win the chip against the Blazers.

[2much_knowledge]

That post isn’t agreeing with your MJ slobbering, but I guess you’re too dumb to realize it.

Wasn't talking to you. Anyways, every single thing i said was not a personal opinion. Was taking directly from the 30 for 30 Bad boys film. So idk what slobbering you talking about

And the last part, we are in 150% agreement by the way

[2much_knowledge]

MJ losing to the defending champs and favorites. Lebron stans need to try harder

Those goat standarts man, i tell you. They expect Mj to beat 60+ win teams with no team himself. Lofty expectations

[Gohan]

LeBron has beaten Boston 5x in the playoffs and lost twice.


Now stay on topic you coward.

Jordan lost 3x in a row to Isiah Thomas. Basically a nobody outplayed Jordan 3 years in a row.

Don't be upset over it.

The irony of calling him a coward and not lebron

[LAL]

Should've averaged 40 in Chicago. MJ sucks.

[2much_knowledge]

The irony of calling him a coward and not lebron

Isiah thomas a nobody. Pippen da man

[8Ball]

Isiah Thomas didn't consider Jordan a rival.

A nobody beat Jordan 3 straight years.

[8Ball]

The irony of calling him a coward and not lebron

LeBron doesn't quit because mental fatigue or meanness by a general manager.

[LAL]

LeBron doesn't quit because mental fatigue or meanness by a general manager.

18 healthy seasons and still chasing and cheating. No wonder.

[tpols]

MJ needed a series like LeBron's 2018 EC 1st round vs Pacers where he went full GOAT and his teammates lacked severely. He needed an LBJ moment.

But he couldn't do it.

Guys on this site actually comparing the baby oladipo pacers to the Bad Boy Pistons. :lol :facepalm

[FKAri]

No...it says he choked on the road. Period. No spins. Pretty straight forward

Gordan couldn't elevate Pippen. Disappointing. While LeElevate is responsible for the majority of Delly and Mozgov's NBA earnings.

[Hey Yo]

Gordan couldn't elevate Pippen. Disappointing. While LeElevate is responsible for the majority of Delly and Mozgov's NBA earnings.

LeBron got Delly a shoe deal and a healthy contract from Milwaukee.

Dont remember MJ doing that for any of his bench players.

[light]

The Bulls losing before 1991 was all about Michael Jordan and whether he was going to start sharing the ball instead of trying to score all the points.

Chicago had the same starting 5 from 1989 to 1993 and the main difference was Jordan coming around in terms of finally embracing winning basketball in the 1991 playoffs.

Bill Cartwright, 1990:


"I've got one fear, it's that I'm going to play all this time in the league and come so close and never get a ring. I only want to win. Michael's got so much talent and can do so much for this team, but I keep thinking he's going to keep us all from it unless he changes.

He’s the greatest athlete I’ve ever seen. He can do whatever he wants. It all comes so easy to him. He’s just not a basketball player."

[Stanley Kobrick]

Of course he deserves most of the blame. That's how it should be. Same when bron loses or any other atg loses.
that's why i and others hold Jordan accountable in 2002 + 2003 respectfully as well. that's how it should be

[3ball]

Those last 3 games especially after stealing a game in Detroit, 24/7/5 on 45%, that's extremely mortal for prime MJ

After taking a 2-1 lead Jordan has an eerily similar finish to the series, averaging 24/4/9 on 45% over the final 3 games, another extremely mortal stretch of play for prime MJ





So 24/6/8 is Jordan's worst 3 game stretch in his prime, while 14' Lebron averaged 22/6/6 to win the 14' ECF and numerous other series won with those numbers

[HoopsNY]

Ironically that's the Detroit series I think Jordan deserves the least amount of criticism for. Just to be clear, I don't think he's to blame for any of the losses, those first 2 he still had good series, but they were far from where his typical level of play and production was.

In '88 he sees a Wilt like (sorry OP) 8 ppg drop off against the Pistons, going from 35 ppg on 60% TS in the regular season to 27 on 55% against the Pistons, that's a huge drop off. Those last 3 games especially after stealing a game in Detroit, 24/7/5 on 45%, that's extremely mortal for prime MJ

In '89 he has another drop off, though it's not nearly as pronounced as the year before, going from 33 ppg on 61%TS in the regular season to 30 on 56% against Detroit. After taking a 2-1 lead Jordan has an eerily similar finish to the series, averaging 24/4/9 on 45% over the final 3 games, another extremely mortal stretch of play for prime MJ

Now, he did have very pedestrian performances in Games 2 & 5 in the '90 series, but he definitely played the cloesest to his capabilities in this series than he did the previous two years. I especially can't blame him when his supporting cast in Game 7 might literally have the worst production for a critical playoff game in playoff history

Pippen: 2 points on 1/10
Grant: 10 points on 3/17
Hodges: 8 points on 3/13
Cartwright: 6 points on 3/9
Armstrong: 2 points on 1/8

Grand total: 28 points on 11/57. Nobody in the world is beating a team of Detroit's caliber with their supporting cast playing like that lol

Precisely. Not to mention, Cleveland's 2009 loss to Orlando is being highlighted as some comparison. You showed MJ's cast's performances in game 7. Let's look at some of LeBron's in the elimination game of game 6:

Varejao: 14 points on 7-12 (58%)
Williams: 17 points on 6-12 (50%)
West: 22 points 9-19 (47%)

LeBron was 1-4 (including 2-4 from the line) with 4 points in the 4th quarter. So I'm not sure why that particular series is being brought up.

[HoopsNY]

The Bulls losing before 1991 was all about Michael Jordan and whether he was going to start sharing the ball instead of trying to score all the points.

Chicago had the same starting 5 from 1989 to 1993 and the main difference was Jordan coming around in terms of finally embracing winning basketball in the 1991 playoffs.

Bill Cartwright, 1990:


"I've got one fear, it's that I'm going to play all this time in the league and come so close and never get a ring. I only want to win. Michael's got so much talent and can do so much for this team, but I keep thinking he's going to keep us all from it unless he changes.

He’s the greatest athlete I’ve ever seen. He can do whatever he wants. It all comes so easy to him. He’s just not a basketball player."

Thanks for this. It's probably true that if MJ becomes more of a facilitator earlier on in his career that Chicago's core develops faster. As a result, they likely win it all in 1989 and 1990. And if he doesn't retire in 1994-95, they win then, too. So basically, MJ would be 10/10 in championships, by your own admission.

[LBJFTW]

Just how Boston used to son lebron. Difference is, he didn't train harder and beat them with his team. He flew away, joined his buddies, promised 7 rings and went 5 short lol

Forever a coward

MJ - Was beaten due to the opposing team having to use “The Jordan Rules”

LBJ - Quit

[Smoke117]

Great thread, OP. :applause: Jordan was dogshit in Detroit. Frankly, anybody who has ever experienced a migraine knows that you can't be expected to play through that, so there is nothing to blame Pippen for in game 7.

[getting_old]

Isiah Thomas beat jordan 3 years in a row.


Mahorn and Rodman would stand at midcourt during layup line and scowl at Pippen until Scottie decided he had a migraine and quit on the spot.

After a handful of years it didn't work any more.

[2much_knowledge]

that's why i and others hold Jordan accountable in 2002 + 2003 respectfully as well. that's how it should be

For what? Getting hurt?