Rank these 3 Players: Klay Thompson, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller

[Wally450]

As overall players

[SouBeachTalents]

Ray
Reggie
Klay

[tontoz]

I think Ray is definitely the top guy. People forget that he was good taking it to the basket in his younger days. He had some hops.

[Hey Yo]

Ray
Klay
Reggie

[tpols]

For the playoffs its very clearly

Reggie
Ray

Klay

[Johnny32]

factoring in both sides of the ball.

klay
allen
reggie

[dankok8]

Reggie was the best of the three in the playoffs although the gap between him and Ray was paper thin.

Reggie
Allen
Klay

[8Ball]

Klay - Better defender then all the others. Better shooter too.

Ray Allen
Reggie

[Axe]

Miller played in a soft, light 90s era for most of his career and had a playoff series where he got outplayed by an average scorer like pippen. So i'm not sure how he's going to be ranked above the other two.

[L.Kizzle]

I think Ray is definitely the top guy. People forget that he was good taking it to the basket in his younger days. He had some hops.
Reggie never had any hops. Lol.

[Manny98]

Ray
Klay
Miller

[mehyaM24]

reggie
ray
klay

haven't seen klay as the focal point yet. not for multiple seasons like ray & reggie.

[tontoz]

Reggie never had any hops. Lol.

Reggie did have crazy stamina though. I remember once seeing him being interviewed about Bruce Bowen's defense. Bowen was notorious for holding guys and playing very physical, sometimes dirty.

Reggie's response was "he can't hold what he can't catch". Guys hated guarding him because they had to chase him around all game.

[Tobio-Star]

Klay


Ray
Reggie

[r0drig0lac]

Ray
Reggie
Klay

[72-10]

Ray and Reggie are pretty much tied

Klay

[72-10]

Klay - Better defender then all the others. Better shooter too.

Ray Allen
Reggie

your argument is dead

Klay isn't the first option on his team so he doesn't command the opposition's best wing defender:facepalm

[John8204]

1. Reggie Miller - best shooter
2. Klay Thompson - best two-way player
3. Ray Allen - HOF third option

[HoopsNY]

It's very close between Miller and Allen. We haven't seen Klay lead a team to the playoffs, let alone to the WCF or finals, so it's tough to put him in the same category.

Allen led the 2005 Sonics to 52 wins and the WCSF, plus in his peak he was basically a 25/5/5/1 player on 60% TS% during the playoffs. Reggie had similar numbers during the postseason and was just such a clutch performer.

Klay has been spotty during the playoffs and that absolutely matters when considering how well the other two performed, especially when you consider how much defensive attention Miller and Allen required compared to Klay who played alongside Steph and KD.

[Kblaze8855]

Ray was a considerably more skilled offensive player than either of the others factoring in his ball handling and passing and that all three of them are high enough on the shooters list to cancel out that factor. He’s also the best athlete of the group which gave him an edge going to the basket. So on offense it’s easily Ray. Klay is the only one of the 3 worth talking about defensively. The others weren’t generally terrible but defense wasn’t worth listing as something to really consider. If you consider defense half the game(which it is no matter if you think it or not…some things are just facts) his defensive edge over both and Rays more complete offense bring it down to them as overall players since that’s how it was asked.

These days with rules setup to limit individual perimeter defense the on the floor impact of the difference between Klay and the others is less than it used to be. And all the screens and hands off rules also aid slashers who can handle the ball. Those things considered….right now…Ray is the pick.

If it’s 30 years ago and everyone has to man up on D and you can’t rely on open lanes.…maybe more to consider towards Klay though he loses the offensive battle by even more back then so it’s probably still Ray.

As a roughly average shooter Ray would’ve still been a really good player. His attacking and athleticism would have allowed that. He could be like….Sprewell level? Occasional all star. Klay with an average jumper is what? Taller Avery Bradley? Reggie is…I don’t know. The people I was thinking of who have a crafty way about them he could be similar to all had better handles or athleticism.

Minus the only reason they are ever compared Ray would be the clear-cut best player and a somebody. Klay would be a mid tier to high end defensive role player, and Reggie would be…probably someone we wouldn’t remember. The overall player comparison is pretty clear.

That gets us to the discussion on if being better at a lot of things makes you more effective which obviously depends on the things you specialize in and how your team uses you and is built to shore up your weaknesses and emphasize your strengths. That is a different and very long discussion. And also not an individual player comparison thing. That’s A question of what kind of part are you to fit into a machine that is well engineered and has a lot of other necessary parts.

You get into that discussion and it doesn’t even matter what sport you mean anymore. It’s an abstract question that involves a bunch of questionable logic and extrapolation based on personal feelings and assumptions that can’t be proven. You kinda get into the QB debate where it’s like “The guy who won the most is the best” vs “Well then why aren’t the guys who won the second most and third most automatically the second and third best?” and discuss the nature of team sports and arbitrary means of assigning credit…

Keeping it a matter of best overall players individually is a much simpler process. That to me has a simple answer. Ray Allen.

You can get into the weeds and come out with an answer that’s different but you can’t do it cleanly with any argument that requires having seen a game of basketball be played. Luckily for some the world doesn’t very much like arguments that can’t be made by a 9 year old given a list of results and numbers. They are easy and popular as a result. You don’t have to know anything about how good Jim Kelly was to say he lost 4 Super Bowls and kick him out of the conversation. And thats nice…for people who don’t know how good he was. Keep it nice and neat. Fit for 50 second espn segments.

You can dumb down an argument enough to give any answer you have your heart set on. But we are kinda getting off the subject. I’m gonna take a shower….

[Airupthere]

Reggie
Ray
Klay

[Bronbron23]

As overall players

Reggie, ray, klay. Reggie had more playoff success as the teams best player. It's hard to compare though. klay plays in an era built for 3 point shooters. He shoots more threes than the league average when reggie played. Reggie in this era would shoot twice as many threes as he did then and score alot more points.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what Miller did better than Allen or Thompson. I do believe he would have more points with more threes in the modern era but the same could be said of Allen and that's not the same as being better at something. Miller is more remembered for being clutch but it's not like Ray Allen wasn't clutch. He hit the biggest shot in Heat history.

[warriorfan]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what Miller did better than Allen or Thompson. I do believe he would have more points with more threes in the modern era but the same could be said of Allen and that's not the same as being better at something. Miller is more remembered for being clutch but it's not like Ray Allen wasn't clutch. He hit the biggest shot in Heat history.

Miller didn’t have Steph Curry distorting defenses and generating him open looks all game. Also played in an era that was more difficult for perimeter offense.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Miller didn’t have Steph Curry distorting defenses and generating him open looks all game. Also played in an era that was more difficult for perimeter offense.

That's not the same as being better at something. Thompson and Miller both get most of their shots off of moving well without the ball. Curry presence helps but that doesn't mean Thompson isn't great at it.

[theman93]

That's not the same as being better at something. Thompson and Miller both get most of their shots off of moving well without the ball. Curry presence helps but that doesn't mean Thompson isn't great at it.

I think the point being is we've never seen Klay as the focal point of his team's offense with defenses devising game plans specifically to key on him. Reggie and Ray never had the benefit of a Curry sucking the defense away from them.

[Real Men Wear Green]

I think the point being is we've never seen Klay as the focal point of his team's offense with defenses devising game plans specifically to key on him. Reggie and Ray never had the benefit of a Curry sucking the defense away from them.

Ray Allen absolutely had that benefit in Boston. Miller was not a normal first option as he was largely playing off the ball. Great shooter as he was he had five seasons over 20ppg and topped out at 24. We aren't talking about an elite scorer here.

[bizil]

Ray
Klay
Reggie

Ray Ray was in the Golden Era of SG's. With Mamba, T Mac, Wade, Vince, AI, Pierce (whose primary position was SG for multiple seasons back then), Manu,etc. So I think he has become a bit underrated. Of all the great shooter-scorer type legends before him (like Bird, Price, Reggie, Rice, Ellis), Ray was THE ONE who had that elite athletic ability to go with it. Elite slasher who would dunk on your ass. And he was even in a slam dunk contest. Plus had great handle for a SG in that era. And could even run the PG at times. So I don't think Ray gets ENOUGH CREDIT for changing the perception of a great shooter-scorer type star. KD was really the next great shooter-scorer type down the road who had the elite athletic ability and slashing to go with the great shooting.

When it comes to Klay, u could argue he's the BEST BLEND of pure shooting and defense in league history. So his two way ability would put his 2nd on my list. Reggie is much more one dimensional than Ray or Klay. BUT

Reggie was THE GUY who really put the volume 50-40-90 caliber three point shooting on the map. Mark Price of course did too. But Reggie was doing it on the huge playoff stages. And had all those legendary moments. And he was clutch AF and would average 25 PPG consistently in today's era. But all three marksmen are among the top 10-15 GOAT SG's.

[MadDog]

At their best

Ray
Reggie
Klay

I think Klay is a better 2-way player than both. Compared to Ray and Reggie though (at some point both of them were their teams BEST player), Klay is more serviceable as a number 2.

[theman93]

Ray Allen absolutely had that benefit in Boston. Miller was not a normal first option as he was largely playing off the ball. Great shooter as he was he had five seasons over 20ppg and topped out at 24. We aren't talking about an elite scorer here.

Who said he didn't? We're talking about Klay Thompson and us never seeing how he produced when teams game plan to specifically stop him.

We saw how Allen produced when defenses keyed him in Milwaukee and we saw how Miller produced when defenses keyed him in Indiana. For all of Thompson's career defenses have keyed on Curry while living with whatever Thompson produces. That wasn't the case in Miller's career or Allen's career in Milwaukee.

[tpols]

Ray Allen absolutely had that benefit in Boston. Miller was not a normal first option as he was largely playing off the ball. Great shooter as he was he had five seasons over 20ppg and topped out at 24. We aren't talking about an elite scorer here.

Miller averaged exactly 23.5 ppg from 1990 to 2002 in the playoffs with 100+ game sample size. So he didn't top out at 24... that's his prime playoff average. He's had many series well above 24 ppg... even above 30 ppg. Klay hasn't had any while not being the defenses main focal point unless you want to compare rik smits to Steph curry. Miller's playoff efficiency is also far better. (Reggie got to the line... Klay doesnt)

There's literally not a shred of proof to support klay over Reggie. Ray Allen was actually great and on Reggie level.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Who said he didn't? We're talking about Klay Thompson and us never seeing how he produced when teams game plan to specifically stop him.

We saw how Allen produced when defenses keyed him in Milwaukee and we saw how Miller produced when defenses keyed him in Indiana. For all of Thompson's career defenses have keyed on Curry while living with whatever Thompson produces. That wasn't the case in Miller's career or Allen's career in Milwaukee.

Of course teams gamelan for Thompson. He does not scare them as much as Curry but he is absolutely accounted for. Miller was more likely to be the top scorer for his team but he had prime seasons where he averaged 18 points. He got as high as 24 once. He was not Jordan or TMac that teams were going to be doubling any time he attacked the basket because that's not what he was going to do. You don't double an off ball scorer. You do put your best defender on him but that defender is running through a million screens. Rarely set up in an isolated play because it's not his game.

[tanibanana]

Allen
Miller
Thompson

[TheGoatest]

First of all, one thing is for sure: Reggie Miller is definitely at the bottom, at least when comparing their best 3 or even 5 year period. He is one of the most overrated players in history. Couldn't make the all-NBA 2nd team as a healthy 28 year-old the season a sophmore Latrell Sprewell made the All-NBA 1st team. Before he was unofficially one of the most overrated players, but with his inclusion on the top 75 list over others clearly more deserving (mainly Dwight), he is now also officially probably the most overrated ever.

As far as Allen vs Klay goes, Ray was better offensively and better at creating his own shot. He could drive to the basket and make all sorts of acrobatic layups/dunks in addition to being a great shooter, whereas Klay is more exclusively a jump shooter. Klay is the better defender. But Allen could be extremely and I mean EXTREMELY inconsistent on offense from one game to the next. Everyone knows about him hitting that huge shot in the 2013 finals game 6 and then scoring 0 points in game 7. But let's not forget him having an insanely great game 2 of the 2010 finals where he shot the lights out and took the home court advantage from the Lakers, only to give it right back the very next game where he shot 0-13 in game 3, which ended up costing the Celtics the series in the end. I still give Ray the nod over Klay overall because he was great for a longer period of time, but the 2015-2018 version of Klay was better than any version of Allen.

[Axe]

Easily an overrated player since he played in a weak and soft era. Ray allen also.

Pfft.

[Kblaze8855]

He's had many series well above 24 ppg... even above 30 ppg.


Look into them and I suspect every 30ppg series was like 3 or 4 games. Most of his “high” scoring was irrelevant points scored while losing and playing massive minutes. The exact kinda thing people like you would totally disregard now. Play 46 minutes a game for 27ppg getting comfortably swept. Play like 30 series, 6-7 worth bringing up production wise, and lose 4 of those at least. We are talking like…a Michael Redd rate of great series. Donovan Mitchell will far eclipse it. Partly due to rules but it is what it is. He’d be just shy of mvp caliber given freedom today. He wasn’t any better than Drazen at the time though. Probably not as good. Drazen could pass.

[theman93]

Of course teams gamelan for Thompson. He does not scare them as much as Curry but he is absolutely accounted for. Miller was more likely to be the top scorer for his team but he had prime seasons where he averaged 18 points. He got as high as 24 once. He was not Jordan or TMac that teams were going to be doubling any time he attacked the basket because that's not what he was going to do. You don't double an off ball scorer. You do put your best defender on him but that defender is running through a million screens. Rarely set up in an isolated play because it's not his game.

Well yeah of course defenses game plan for Thompson, I never argued otherwise.

For all of Thompson's career Curry is the primary threat defenses game plan for and we don't know how he would have looked without the greatest shooter of all time as his wing man. Allen in Milwaukee and Miller never had that luxury and are still top 75 players of all time. It's not really a debate tbh, it's just the truth.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Well yeah of course defenses game plan for Thompson, I never argued otherwise.

For all of Thompson's career Curry is the primary threat defenses game plan for and we don't know how he would have looked without the greatest shooter of all time as his wing man. Allen in Milwaukee and Miller never had that luxury and are still top 75 players of all time. It's not really a debate tbh, it's just the truth.

You think the way he plays wouldn't work anywhere else? A great shooter running through screens will be effective anywhere. It's good basketball. The difference is that without Curry he doesn't win as much. A team with him as is best player most likely wins no championships in any era. Which is what happened with Miller.

[HoopsNY]

Look into them and I suspect every 30ppg series was like 3 or 4 games. Most of his “high” scoring was irrelevant points scored while losing and playing massive minutes. The exact kinda thing people like you would totally disregard now. Play 46 minutes a game for 27ppg getting comfortably swept. Play like 30 series, 6-7 worth bringing up production wise, and lose 4 of those at least. We are talking like…a Michael Redd rate of great series. Donovan Mitchell will far eclipse it. Partly due to rules but it is what it is. He’d be just shy of mvp caliber given freedom today. He wasn’t any better than Drazen at the time though. Probably not as good. Drazen could pass.

Not sure about this. The point is Miller produced during the playoffs, regardless of being swept. But even if we accept that, then let's take a look at what happened after 4 years of getting bounced out of the first round:

1994 ECF vs. NYK: 25 PPG on 58% TS%

1995 ECSF vs. NYK: 23 PPG on 58% TS%

1995 ECF vs. ORL: 26 PPG on 67% TS%

1998 ECSF vs. NYK: 25 PPG on 61% TS%

1999 ECSF vs. PHI: 22 PPG on 63% TS%

2000 ECSF vs. PHI: 26 PPG on 67% TS%

2000 ECF vs. NYK: 22 PPG on 56% TS%

2000 FIN vs. LAL: 24 PPG on 59% TS%

That's 8 series added to the 4 in the 1st round from his first four years; and I haven't even posted any 1st round numbers after the first four years.

Miller's playoff production and clutch gene wasn't some obscure occurrence or rare occasion. He was legitimately that good.

[3ba11]

Which guy had far lower PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP than Jeff Hornacek?

Only Klay - Ray and Miller destroy Klay statistically

Klay is a stand-still jumpshooter with very little off-the-cuff pure scoring ability or contested shot-making ability - that's why he doesn't get to the FT line.. He's just lucky to arrive in today's era (drive-and-kick 3-point style offense) where he can just stand there and wait for kickouts.. Otoh, Miller had great craftiness and pure scoring ability - he wasn't just a stand-still jumpshooter.

Klay's best seasons offensively were comparable to Mo or Jamison in 09' or 10' (Curry had a dynasty with that)

[theman93]

You think the way he plays wouldn't work anywhere else? A great shooter running through screens will be effective anywhere. It's good basketball. The difference is that without Curry he doesn't win as much. A team with him as is best player most likely wins no championships in any era. Which is what happened with Miller.

I don't believe he would be as effective as he is if he didn't Curry next to him, no.

The point being though is you and I will never know. What we do know is how good Miller and Allen were without all-time threats on their teams.

[theman93]

Which guy had far lower PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP than Jeff Hornacek?

Only Klay - Ray and Miller destroy Klay statistically

Klay is a stand-still jumpshooter with very little off-the-cuff pure scoring ability or contested shot-making ability - that's why he doesn't get to the FT line.. He's just lucky to arrive in today's era (drive-and-kick 3-point style offense) where he can just stand there and wait for kickouts.. Otoh, Miller had great craftiness and pure scoring ability - he wasn't just a stand-still jumpshooter.

Klay's best seasons offensively were comparable to Mo or Jamison in 09' or 10' (Curry had a dynasty with that)

One thing is for certain - Thompson is not the 3 point shooter coming off screens at full speed that Miller and Allen were.

[fsvr54]

Nobody ranking Ray last actually saw him play on the Bucks and Sonics

[John8204]

Nobody ranking Ray last actually saw him play on the Bucks and Sonics

For years I only watch playoff basketball..and because of that.

1. Reggie
2. Klay
3. Ray

[FKAri]

For years I only watch playoff basketball..and because of that.

1. Reggie
2. Klay
3. Ray

Swap Ray and Reggie and I agree. Our lists are virtually identical :applause:

[fsvr54]

For years I only watch playoff basketball..and because of that.

1. Reggie
2. Klay
3. Ray

For years you've been an idiot then.

I fear it's too late for a remedy.

[John8204]

For years you've been an idiot then.


I have a variety of interests, if I just focused on NBA I might become a crazy person who talks about Lebron and MJ for days/months/years on end.