Mark Jackson on Kobe Bryant - 2000

[Nowitness]

Peter Vecsey: "Now we've given them credit, does it tell you anything negative about your team that you weren't able to take advantage of the fact that Kobe Bryant, their second best player is not on the court"

Mark Jackson: "Well absolutely not! Take away our second best player and give us Shaq and we'll still be fine"

'Audible groans of laughter'.

Jackson was one of the smartest players ever, as evidenced by building a dynasty that the white man Kerr stole from him and forming the best commentary duo since Bill Walton and Snapper Jones.

How damaging is this to Bryant's legacy? He wasn't respected by his contemporaries during his first 3 title runs, they knew if you replaced him with any average SG they'd still win with Shaq putting up the greatest offensive peak we've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV_kRB2Piuo

Incase Bean stans wan't proof of the quote.

[Rysio]

How about quotes from 2001? Obviously kobe wasn't on that level in 2000.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Imagine thinking some obscure quote, before Kobe's prime, "damaged" his legacy.

You do know in 2006 Mark Jackson claimed Kobe would go down as GOAT...right? :confusedshrug:

[LAmbruh]

Lakers with Shaq/No Kobe: 36-8


Lakers with Kobe/No Shaq: 53-45


Crazy, LA was a 60 win pace team with Shaq while Kobe was out. Meanwhile barely a fringe .500 team led by Kobe while Shaq was down.
Amazing impact of a Top 10 ATG that Shaq aka MDE (most dominant ever):pimp:


https://media.giphy.com/media/WTs1U35bXe4X6/giphy.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

With Durant needing curry/klay/Dray or Irving/Harden on his team to win.

Kobe now looks pretty damn good replacing Shaq with pau gasol and still pretty much getting the same results.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Lakers with Shaq/No Kobe: 36-8


Lakers with Kobe/No Shaq: 53-45


Crazy, LA was a 60 win pace team with Shaq while Kobe was out. Meanwhile barely a fringe .500 team led by Kobe while Shaq was down.
Amazing impact of a Top 10 ATG that Shaq aka MDE (most dominant ever):pimp:


https://media.giphy.com/media/WTs1U35bXe4X6/giphy.gif

But Kobe replaced you with Pau Gasol a fringe top 50 ever player and still went to 3 finals and won 2 rings. Would of won 3 rings but 2008 Celtics were like 10x better then any east finals team that Shaq beat.

[FKAri]

What a stupid thread.

[Nowitness]

But Kobe replaced you with Pau Gasol a fringe top 50 ever player and still went to 3 finals and won 2 rings. Would of won 3 rings but 2008 Celtics were like 10x better then any east finals team that Shaq beat.

Pau was All-NBA both years they won and should have been FMVP in 2010, saved LA in the clutch.

Imagine people thinking Kobe was the best player is his era when Shaq carried him to 3 titles.

Kobe titles without an All-NBA teammate? 0
Duncan titles without an All-NBA teammate? 4

Kobe’s legacy was saved by not facing LeBron in 09 or a healthy Boston in 2010.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVWFIGhD980

[LAmbruh]

But Kobe replaced you with Pau Gasol a fringe top 50 ever player and still went to 3 finals and Won 2 rings. Would of won 3 rings but 2008 Celtics were like 10x better then any east finals team that Shaq beat.

nah Shaq was replaced by Odom who he was traded for. Lakers got back to the Finals because were a top notch organization that went through a complete rebuild after losing Shaq. Pau Gasol, Bynum, Artest/Ariza, Fisher. Shaq was right back into the Finals in Miami after leaving LA

Both were awful leaders and needed baby catering but Kobe couldn't even snag a playoff series win without Phil Jackson. Shaq went to Finals on 3 different teams

Shaq put Orlando on the Map out of LSU, greatest rookie/soph franchise turnarounds ever. Kobe didn't see major floor time until his 3rd year

[BigKobeFan]

Kobe was still on his rookie contract.

[tpols]

Jackson was one of the smartest players ever, as evidenced by building a dynasty that the white man Kerr stole from him


Mods? Blatant racism here. Mark Jackson was a terrible coach who clashed with everybody in the FO. He's not a tactical guy... he's a preacher. Kerr crafted the ball sharing system that made the dubs teamwork GOAT and ultimately unlocked their ceiling. Praise be.

As far as Kobe goes, if he was such a non factor Jalen Rose wouldn't have purposely injured him.

[WhiteKyrie]

With Durant needing curry/klay/Dray or Irving/Harden on his team to win.

Kobe now looks pretty damn good replacing Shaq with pau gasol and still pretty much getting the same results.

You mean

LeBron needed Wade and Bosh - 2 rings
LeBron needed Kyrie and Love
Steph needed Klay and Dray
Durant needed Steph and Klay and Dray - 2 rings
Harden needed Durant and Kyrie (possibly)

Now

Mike needed just Scottie - 6 rings
Hakeem needed just Drexler - 2 rings
Shaq needed just Kobe - 3 rings
Kobe needed just Gasol - 2 rings
AD needed just LeBron

And therein lies the difference.

[RRR3]

Coach filling his adult diapers again. Won’t someone put the old guy down for his nap? He’s getting cranky.

[ShawkFactory]

You mean

LeBron needed Wade and Bosh - 2 rings
LeBron needed Kyrie and Love
Steph needed Klay and Dray
Durant needed Steph and Klay and Dray - 2 rings
Harden needed Durant and Kyrie (possibly)

Now

Mike needed just Scottie - 6 rings
Hakeem needed just Drexler - 2 rings
Shaq needed just Kobe - 3 rings
Kobe needed just Gasol - 2 rings
AD needed just LeBron

And therein lies the difference.
By this logic wouldn't Lebron have just needed AD too?

[WhiteKyrie]

By this logic wouldn't Lebron have just needed AD too?

In the same way you’d say Kobe just needed just Shaq to win. AD was the best player on the Lakers last year. Both sides of the ball all the way through the Finals. They didn’t even make the playoffs the year prior without him.

[Nowitness]

In the same way you’d say Kobe just needed just Shaq to win. AD was the best player on the Lakers last year. Both sides of the ball all the way through the Finals. They didn’t even make the playoffs the year prior without him.

Michael never won without Pippen or Jackson
Kareem never won without an elite PG
Magic never won without Kareem
Bird never won without being his starting 5s worst defender
Duncan never won without Pop
Shaq never won without an All-NBA SG
Kobe never won without an All-NBA big
Curry has never won as his teams best player
Durant has never won without joining a unanimous MVP
Hakeem only won when MJ played little league baseball

What is LeBrons formula? He went to three different teams, three different GMs, 3 different coaches (all of whom are average), three different play styles, as a team and individual, 3 different supporting casts and 3 different secondary stars.

If his formula is just you need an all star second star who achieved nothing in the playoffs years prior to joining up, I’d say he has his legacy as giving any team, ever, the best opportunity of winning locked up.

[light]

Peter Vecsey: "Now we've given them credit, does it tell you anything negative about your team that you weren't able to take advantage of the fact that Kobe Bryant, their second best player is not on the court"

Mark Jackson: "Well absolutely not! Take away our second best player and give us Shaq and we'll still be fine"

'Audible groans of laughter'.

Jackson was one of the smartest players ever, as evidenced by building a dynasty that the white man Kerr stole from him and forming the best commentary duo since Bill Walton and Snapper Jones.

How damaging is this to Bryant's legacy? He wasn't respected by his contemporaries during his first 3 title runs, they knew if you replaced him with any average SG they'd still win with Shaq putting up the greatest offensive peak we've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV_kRB2Piuo

Incase Bean stans wan't proof of the quote.

Kobe was still young in the year 2000. His career scoring average at that point was still only 15.9 ppg.

Kobe Bryant really didn't get any kind of respect until about 2006. The Kobe that people admire today emerged AFTER Shaq and obviously after Colorado. He earned that respect through chucking.

"Chuck it and they will come."

The more he scored, the more people began to forget about his piss poor personality, past indiscretions and the arrest for rape.

[Smoke117]

Imagine thinking some obscure quote, before Kobe's prime, "damaged" his legacy.

You do know in 2006 Mark Jackson claimed Kobe would go down as GOAT...right? :confusedshrug:

Meltdown.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Meltdown.

Damn, a one word reply... About sums up your intellect

[Smoke117]

Damn, a one word reply... About sums up your intellect

You okay, bro? Stay safe.

[Nowitness]

Damn, a one word reply... About sums up your intellect

I’ll trust what he was saying as a competitor over what he was saying as a commentator building connections. Watch the video, he bursts out laughing at the notion that Kobe being out hurts the Lakers, that is as disrespectful a thing anyone has said about an NBA player. Kobe’s 2000 ring isn’t worth anything, could replace him with Doug Christie and they’d still have won.

[RRR3]

In the same way you’d say Kobe just needed just Shaq to win. AD was the best player on the Lakers last year. Both sides of the ball all the way through the Finals. They didn’t even make the playoffs the year prior without him.
No one believes this coach. Time for your nap.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You okay, bro? Stay safe.

5 words... Not bad man. Keep up the improvement!


I’ll trust what he was saying as a competitor over what he was saying as a commentator building connections. Watch the video, he bursts out laughing at the notion that Kobe being out hurts the Lakers, that is as disrespectful a thing anyone has said about an NBA player. Kobe’s 2000 ring isn’t worth anything, could replace him with Doug Christie and they’d still have won.

Nobody cares what you trust. You used Mark Jackson for reference, and years later he said Kobe>MJ :lol

[sdot_thadon]

In the same way you’d say Kobe just needed just Shaq to win. AD was the best player on the Lakers last year. Both sides of the ball all the way through the Finals. They didn’t even make the playoffs the year prior without him.

Cool story coach, now can you tell us the one about Madonna?

[clipps]

Michael never won without Pippen or Jackson
Kareem never won without an elite PG
Magic never won without Kareem
Bird never won without being his starting 5s worst defender
Duncan never won without Pop
Shaq never won without an All-NBA SG
Kobe never won without an All-NBA big
Curry has never won as his teams best player
Durant has never won without joining a unanimous MVP
Hakeem only won when MJ played little league baseball

What is LeBrons formula? He went to three different teams, three different GMs, 3 different coaches (all of whom are average), three different play styles, as a team and individual, 3 different supporting casts and 3 different secondary stars.

If his formula is just you need an all star second star who achieved nothing in the playoffs years prior to joining up, I’d say he has his legacy as giving any team, ever, the best opportunity of winning locked up.

Magic literally replaced Kareem and won the close out game of the NBA Finals as a rookie. You're a ****ing retard.

[Nowitness]

Magic literally replaced Kareem and won the close out game of the NBA Finals as a rookie. You're a ****ing retard.

Imagine thinking Magic winning one game without Kareem somehow proved he could win titles without him. Kill yourself, Magic had a formula, as did every other top 10 player ever expect for LeBron James.

[MrFonzworth]

Imagine thinking Magic winning one game without Kareem somehow proved he could win titles without him. Kill yourself, Magic had a formula, as did every other top 10 player ever expect for LeBron James.

:roll::roll::roll:

[Axe]

Jackson was one of the smartest players ever, as evidenced by building a dynasty that the white man Kerr stole from him and forming the best commentary duo since Bill Walton and Snapper Jones.
Huh? Tf does this supposed to mean? Mark jackson hasn't even led them to the conference finals. :lol

[2much_knowledge]

Michael never won without Pippen or Jackson
Kareem never won without an elite PG
Magic never won without Kareem
Bird never won without being his starting 5s worst defender
Duncan never won without Pop
Shaq never won without an All-NBA SG
Kobe never won without an All-NBA big
Curry has never won as his teams best player
Durant has never won without joining a unanimous MVP
Hakeem only won when MJ played little league baseball

What is LeBrons formula? He went to three different teams, three different GMs, 3 different coaches (all of whom are average), three different play styles, as a team and individual, 3 different supporting casts and 3 different secondary stars.

If his formula is just you need an all star second star who achieved nothing in the playoffs years prior to joining up, I’d say he has his legacy as giving any team, ever, the best opportunity of winning locked up.

Hard to take your opinion seriously with that Mullin > Bird

[LAL]

Hard to take your opinion seriously with that Mullin > Bird

He's basically saying kobe magic and mj couldn't win on other teams. Or something like that.

Or Kobe needed Pau and Shaq, MJ needed Pippen and Lebron only needed himself.

Lmao

[Nowitness]

He's basically saying kobe magic and mj couldn't win on other teams. Or something like that.

Or Kobe needed Pau and Shaq, MJ needed Pippen and Lebron only needed himself.

Lmao

I’m actually not, I believe MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq could have won without the formulas they had (Kobe couldn’t win without a dominant big).

But you would agree, by definition believing that is conjecture, because they never did win without their formulas?

LeBron has PROVED he can win with no formula, the others didn’t, even if they could have.

[Nowitness]

Huh? Tf does this supposed to mean? Mark jackson hasn't even led them to the conference finals. :lol

He didn’t get a fair shake, had he coached another season he’d have won the title.

The owners are racist and anti religion, the firing wasn’t basketball based, it was bigotry.

[Axe]

He didn’t get a fair shake, had he coached another season he’d have won the title.
I honestly see no proof of this, especially when he never went on with coaching anymore after he did so for three seasons. I mean he could have coached another team after he got fired.

[LAL]

I’m actually not, I believe MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq could have won without the formulas they had (Kobe couldn’t win without a dominant big).

But you would agree, by definition believing that is conjecture, because they never did win without their formulas?

LeBron has PROVED he can win with no formula, the others didn’t, even if they could have.

So kobe & MJ should have left LA and Pau or Chicago and pippen and team up with.. more all stars to prove a point?

[2much_knowledge]

He's basically saying kobe magic and mj couldn't win on other teams. Or something like that.

Or Kobe needed Pau and Shaq, MJ needed Pippen and Lebron only needed himself.

Lmao

I guess nowadays players get penalized for being loyal to their teams and staying the course.

Kevin Durant got the formula right and i hope he gets praised just as much in 6 years if he keeps up the stacked team jumping

[2much_knowledge]

Speaking on the topic, when kobe was healthy in 2010 and seem to be going for years, Marc Jackson claimed on national tv that Kobe was on paste to become the goat.

[Smoke117]

Speaking on the topic, when kobe was healthy in 2010 and seem to be going for years, Marc Jackson claimed on national tv that Kobe was on paste to become the goat.

So Mark Jackson is a retard then?

[2much_knowledge]

So Mark Jackson is a retard then?

I never agreed with it. Just seemed like it that year. He was on top of his game, fresh off ring #5 and had a team that seemed to being able to contend for years.

[Nowitness]

So kobe & MJ should have left LA and Pau or Chicago and pippen and team up with.. more all stars to prove a point?

Again, Kobe isn’t part of this, we saw when he didn’t have an All-NBA big what he did, nothing.

As for MJ, of course he shouldn’t have left his situation if it worked (even tho he did, twice). But it is still conjecture, he most definitely would have won elsewhere with a different formula, but he didn’t.

LeBron did, that’s what matters.

[Nowitness]

I honestly see no proof of this, especially when he never went on with coaching anymore after he did so for three seasons. I mean he could have coached another team after he got fired.

Half of GSW jerseys that are retired are white players. The owners are clear racists.

Situated in Silicone Valley, it is near exclusively white.

And SAN Fran is where the hippy movement was born, 1967 is when God died, and it started there.

Jackson was a top 40 player ever and the second best commentary duo ever, he is a winner.

Given another season GS won a title, the owners just couldn’t stomach a proud Christian being the one to win it for them.

[Smoke117]

He didn’t get a fair shake, had he coached another season he’d have won the title.

The owners are racist and anti religion, the firing wasn’t basketball based, it was bigotry.

The Warriors were never winning shit with Mark Jackson as the head coach. Don’t you ever get tired of being wrong and saying stupid shit?

[Smoke117]

Half of GSW jerseys that are retired are white players. The owners are clear racists.

Situated in Silicone Valley, it is near exclusively white.

And SAN Fran is where the hippy movement was born, 1967 is when God died, and it started there.

Jackson was a top 40 player ever and the second best commentary duo ever, he is a winner.

Given another season GS won a title, the owners just couldn’t stomach a proud Christian being the one to win it for them.

Lmfao Mark Jackson is a top 40 player ever now? You have to be trolling as nobody can be as clueless and stupid as you are.

[tpols]

So kobe & MJ should have left LA and Pau or Chicago and pippen and team up with.. more all stars to prove a point?

OP is retarded. By his logic Dirk couldn't win anything without Jason terry. The dummy is giving credit to team hoppers like its harder to win with pau or terry than it would be to win with AD, Wade, Kyrie, Bosh etc.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Not sure how the quote is a dig at Kobe. It's high praise for Shaq. You expect guys who are having all time great level peaks to be able to win games without their best teammate. Doesn't mean that teammate isn't great in his own right.

[Nowitness]

OP is retarded. By his logic Dirk couldn't win anything without Jason terry. The dummy is giving credit to team hoppers like its harder to win with pau or terry than it would be to win with AD, Wade, Kyrie, Bosh etc.

Dirk won 1 title, again, by definition, that isn't a formula cause he never repeated the recipe.

Not sure how you clowns can misread a point so badly.

I have no doubts MJ, Shaq, Magic, Bird, KD, Curry could have won with a different scenario, but they didn't. So saying that is still, by definition, conjecture.

LeBron has proved he can do it, he has done it 3 times. Whereas MJ NEVER won without Jackson or Pippen, LeBron won with a 2-way, driver of the basketball in Wade, a handle heavy, streaky shooter in Kyrie, and a defensive beast with a high post game in AD. He proved, he can win with different second stars, different coaches, different supporting groups.

Hence, why his case for GOAT is he gives every and any team the best possibility of winning. The rest don't, because without their formulas (as outlined previously), they didn't win.

IQ of this forum must be sub 80.

[mehyaM24]

Dirk won 1 title, again, by definition, that isn't a formula cause he never repeated the recipe.

Not sure how you clowns can misread a point so badly.

I have no doubts MJ, Shaq, Magic, Bird, KD, Curry could have won with a different scenario, but they didn't. So saying that is still, by definition, conjecture.

LeBron has proved he can do it, he has done it 3 times. Whereas MJ NEVER won without Jackson or Pippen, LeBron won with a 2-way, driver of the basketball in Wade, a handle heavy, streaky shooter in Kyrie, and a defensive beast with a high post game in AD. He proved, he can win with different second stars, different coaches, different supporting groups.

Hence, why his case for GOAT is he gives every and any team the best possibility of winning. The rest don't, because without their formulas (as outlined previously), they didn't win.

IQ of this forum must be sub 80.

if you have no doubts they could, then why are you desperately holding onto this point? like, who cares if those guys have "NEVER won" when most of us know they WOULD have. joining different and talented teams tells us nothing - except that you met expectation..

[Nowitness]

if you have no doubts they could, then why are you desperately holding onto this point? like, who cares if those guys have "NEVER won" when most of us know they WOULD have. joining different and talented teams tells us nothing - except that you met expectation..

The same reason saying if Shaq played in the 60s he'd have averaged 100 and that if MJ played today he'd average 40, IT'S CONJECTURE.

The FACT is that the only all time great who has PROVED they don't need a certain scenario to win is LeBron James.

Just so you know, all of them bar Bird did have opportunities to win without their formula, MJ played without Pippen for a number of years, between Oscar and Magic Kareen had no elite PG, Shaq in Orlando had no elite SG, Kobe between Shaq and Gasol had no elite big, Magic played a number of years without Kareem, KD played without an MVP, Curry now has the chance to show he can be the best player on a champion.

Yet, none of them did. LeBron? Did it, 3 times.

[Ainosterhaspie]

The same reason saying if Shaq played in the 60s he'd have averaged 100 and that if MJ played today he'd average 40, IT'S CONJECTURE.

The FACT is that the only all time great who has PROVED they don't need a certain scenario to win is LeBron James.

Just so you know, all of them bar Bird did have opportunities to win without their formula, MJ played without Pippen for a number of years, between Oscar and Magic Kareen had no elite PG, Shaq in Orlando had no elite SG, Kobe between Shaq and Gasol had no elite big, Magic played a number of years without Kareem, KD played without an MVP, Curry now has the chance to show he can be the best player on a champion.

Yet, none of them did. LeBron? Did it, 3 times.

Jordan may technically have had a chance to show he could win without Pippen, but that's a weak argument. Wizard years aren't a time he should be expected to have success. The pre Pippen years he was a rookie, then missed most of the next season to injury.

The only one where you could reasonably say he maybe missed a chance to show something is 87. Maybe you could expect him to have a winning record and get a seed in the 4-6 range. Might have had a shot to get out of the first round with that. But that's a big ask given the teams he was facing, and not many players in history would have done that well with that cast.

[mehyaM24]

The same reason saying if Shaq played in the 60s he'd have averaged 100 and that if MJ played today he'd average 40, IT'S CONJECTURE.

The FACT is that the only all time great who has PROVED they don't need a certain scenario to win is LeBron James.

Just so you know, all of them bar Bird did have opportunities to win without their formula, MJ played without Pippen for a number of years, between Oscar and Magic Kareen had no elite PG, Shaq in Orlando had no elite SG, Kobe between Shaq and Gasol had no elite big, Magic played a number of years without Kareem, KD played without an MVP, Curry now has the chance to show he can be the best player on a champion.

Yet, none of them did. LeBron? Did it, 3 times.

ya and kd winning in golden state is fact lol. what's also a fact, are most ATGs would compete for titles by joining MULTIPLE talented teams. this is why ring counting is dumb. too many casual fans want to ignore context and individual play.

[Nowitness]

Jordan may technically have had a chance to show he could win without Pippen, but that's a weak argument. Wizard years aren't a time he should be expected to have success. The pre Pippen years he was a rookie, then missed most of the next season to injury.

The only one where you could reasonably say he maybe missed a chance to show something is 87. Maybe you could expect him to have a winning record and get a seed in the 4-6 range. Might have had a shot to get out of the first round with that. But that's a big ask given the teams he was facing, and not many players in history would have done that well with that cast.

LeBron in year 17 won a title without a forumla.

Jordan in years 14 and 15 failed to make the playoffs.

Jordan played with a 30 point per game scorer in Washington in Stackhouse. He had enough help to at least make the playoffs. Again showing, with his formula he didn't win.

Pippen got further without MJ than MJ ever did without Pippen.

[Nowitness]

ya and kd winning in golden state is fact lol. what's also a fact, are most ATGs would compete for titles by joining MULTIPLE talented teams. this is why ring counting is dumb. too many casual fans want to ignore context and individual play.

Seem to recall all of the teams LeBron joining either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round the years prior to him joining.

Still goes to show if the only thing LeBron needs is a talented second star to win, he gives the most teams the best chance of winning. None of the others could prove that, because they only ever won with the same second star/coach (MJ/Magic/Bird) or same type of second star (Kareem/Shaq/Kobe).

[Ainosterhaspie]

LeBron in year 17 won a title without a forumla.

Jordan in years 14 and 15 failed to make the playoffs.

Jordan played with a 30 point per game scorer in Washington in Stackhouse. He had enough help to at least make the playoffs. Again showing, with his formula he didn't win.

Pippen got further without MJ than MJ ever did without Pippen.
Jordan was 39. Doesn't matter how many seasons he had, 39 is too old to draw any negative conclusions about what a player can win with. Put 34 year old MJ on that team and they're in the playoffs. And I'm taking Davis over Stackhouse no questions. And it's real disingenuous to take an outlier year he never came close to matching from before he teamed with MJ, and use that to demonstrate a shortcoming with MJ. It wasn't even the year just before playing with MJ opening the door to claim its MJs fault he regressed.

[SouBeachTalents]

Why are y'all even arguing with the OP :lol He's either clearly trolling or extremely idiotic

[mehyaM24]

Seem to recall all of the teams LeBron joining either missing the playoffs or losing in the first round the years prior to him joining.

Still goes to show if the only thing LeBron needs is a talented second star to win, he gives the most teams the best chance of winning. None of the others could prove that, because they only ever won with the same second star/coach (MJ/Magic/Bird) or same type of second star (Kareem/Shaq/Kobe).

are wade/bosh, kyrie/love and ad not talented? or not superstar/star caliber? lol some of the guys you mentioned didnt join various talent like lebron. but assuming they did, you already said they likely win too. you saying "lebron actually did though" is no different than me saying kd actually won on the warriors. again so what?


Why are y'all even arguing with the OP :lol He's either clearly trolling or extremely idiotic

good point :oldlol:

[Nowitness]

are wade/bosh, kyrie/love and ad not talented? or not superstar/star caliber? lol some of the guys you mentioned didnt join various talent like lebron. but assuming they did, you already said they likely win too. saying "lebron actually did did though" is no different than me saying kd actually won on the warriors too. again so what?



good point :oldlol:

Did you graduate High School?

KD won WITH 1 FORMULA. He has never proven he could win without Kerr/Curry/Thompson/Green. If he did this year, he would join LeBron as the only other ATG who PROVED he could win with a different system/scenario.

Bosh and Love are no more talented than Rodman, Worthy, Parish. Naming them is futile. Wade/AD/Kyrie most definetly are amazingly talented and worthy second options, but as I've pointed out, they play totally different. LeBron winning with all of them shows he gives the best opportunity for any team to win.

NJ is still the better player, but he was a system player. Without his system, he achieved.... nothing.

[mehyaM24]

Did you graduate High School?

KD won WITH 1 FORMULA. He has never proven he could win without Kerr/Curry/Thompson/Green. If he did this year, he would join LeBron as the only other ATG who PROVED he could win with a different system/scenario.

Bosh and Love are no more talented than Rodman, Worthy, Parish. Naming them is futile. Wade/AD/Kyrie most definetly are amazingly talented and worthy second options, but as I've pointed out, they play totally different. LeBron winning with all of them shows he gives the best opportunity for any team to win.

NJ is still the better player, but he was a system player. Without his system, he achieved.... nothing.

lebron needed his #2 to be top 10 in VORP - every year he won a title. in all 4 playoffs, wade/kyrie/ad were top 10 in value over replacement. :oldlol: so the only "multiple formulas" you are thinking of are ones ur digging out your ass.

but that is all beside the point. you've already admitted other ATGs likely win in the same scenario lol

[Nowitness]

lebron needed his #2 to be top 10 in VORP - every year he won a title. in all 4 playoffs, wade/kyrie/ad were top 10 in value over replacement. :oldlol: so the only "multiple formulas" you are thinking of are ones ur digging out your ass.

but that is all beside the point. you've already admitted other ATGs likely win in the same scenario lol

VORP is a stat derived from the number of games played, if you make the finals you're likely to be in the top 10.

For context, 2013, LeBron had a 3.0 VORP, Wade had 1, so LeBron was 3x better than his second star.

Still doesn't dispute my point, give LBJ any coach, any team, any play style, any second star, from a driving SG, to a ball handling PG, to a defensive big man, he wins.

MJ? You need the greatest coach ever, and the greatest defensive wing defender ever, or he misses the playoffs/loses in the first round.

[mehyaM24]

VORP is a stat derived from the number of games played, if you make the finals you're likely to be in the top 10.

For context, 2013, LeBron had a 3.0 VORP, Wade had 1, so LeBron was 3x better than his second star.

Still doesn't dispute my point, give LBJ any coach, any team, any play style, any second star, from a driving SG, to a ball handling PG, to a defensive big man, he wins.

MJ? You need the greatest coach ever, and the greatest defensive wing defender ever, or he misses the playoffs/loses in the first round.

its an impact stat though - and mainly stars makeup the top 10. 2020 playoffs for example. giannis/bam/harden/tatum/leonard/murray/jokic/butler/davis/lebron -- all showed out in the playoffs and vorp backs that up.

so your "multiple forumulas" is really only one. sorry dude.