Why did second 3-peat Jordan need so much help from the officials to win?

[Johnny32]

It seems like the worse MJ played the more they helped him win.

91 finals - 6.6 fta per game...(no help needed, mj shot 56% from the field, 50% from 3pt)
92 finals - 7.7 fta per game...(no help needed, mj shot 53% from the field, 43% from 3pt)
93 finals - 8.1 fta per game...(no help needed, mj shot 51% from the field, 41% from 3pt)
96 finals - 11.2 fta per game...(major help needed, mj chucked at 41% from the field, 31% from 3pt)
97 finals - 9.2 fta per game...(major help needed, mj chucked at 45% from the field, 32% from 3pt)
98 finals - 11.7 fta per game...(major help needed, mj chucked at 42% from the field, 30% from 3pt)

this trend gets even more interesting when you consider the fact that jordan from 96-98 was primarily a midrange jump shooter.

[Johnny32]

Let's look at jordan's percentage of fg's by distance in the playoffs for the two years we have data for.

1997 - 20.7% at the rim, 7.2% from 3-10 feet, 31.9% from 10-16 feet, 26.7% from 16-3pt, 13.5% from 3pt
1998 - 24.1% at the rim, 9.1% from 3-10 feet, 26.2% from 10-16 feet, 32.3% from 16-3pt, 8.2%% from 3pt

Just a little fun fact. For LeBron's entire postseason career he averages 35.6% of his fga at the rim. LeAttackTheRim must live at the line you say? Not exactly. He hasn't attempted over 10 fta in a playoff run since 2012.

[Johnny32]

Too much fax and stats for this board?

[hateraid]

It's a good perspective of just how greatly constructed those late 90's Bulls were. The perfect storm.

[3ball]

As players lose their athleticism, they need more FT's

Kudos to Jordan for having some James Harden in his game.. Jordan always had goat scoring versatility and could play any style

More importantly, Lebron gets most of his shots at the rim, so high scoring from Lebron = over-dribbling and lower team ceiling

Otoh, Jordan's jumpshooting allowed off-ball play and ball movement, so his teams had far greater ball movement, team assists, teammate fit/maximization, team ceilings and ultimately, Finals record

[Smoke117]

Jordan took more fta’s in the 98 regular season (8.8) at 34 than he did since the 89 season when he was 25. (9.8) He was being coddled the **** out of during his “retirement tour” by the refs.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Jordan took more fta’s in the 98 regular season (8.8) at 34 than he did since the 89 season when he was 25. (9.8) He was being coddled the **** out of during his “retirement tour” by the refs.
I underrated him for years because of that nonsense. I've changed my views since then, but that's something always floating in the back of mind when I think of him.

[Mauzah]

I've always felt like the 2nd 3-peat was a lot harder for the Bulls.

Pippen had one bad playoff run and he was injured in the others. I watch those games and it's crazy to me that they actually pulled it off, Jordan had to carry so much of the offensive load.

I think it boils down to, one having the GOAT obviously and two everyone being a vet who bought in. I see a lot of limitations on the roster and they made that up with intelligence and teamwork.

[Johnny32]

I've always felt like the 2nd 3-peat was a lot harder for the Bulls.

Pippen had one bad playoff run and he was injured in the others. I watch those games and it's crazy to me that they actually pulled it off, Jordan had to carry so much of the offensive load.

I think it boils down to, one having the GOAT obviously and two everyone being a vet who bought in. I see a lot of limitations on the roster and they made that up with intelligence and teamwork.

i think it comes down to mike being surrounded by an excellent defensive and rebounding team...in a offensively challenged era...with the league on his side.

[Smoke117]

I've always felt like the 2nd 3-peat was a lot harder for the Bulls.

Pippen had one bad playoff run and he was injured in the others. I watch those games and it's crazy to me that they actually pulled it off, Jordan had to carry so much of the offensive load.

I think it boils down to, one having the GOAT obviously and two everyone being a vet who bought in. I see a lot of limitations on the roster and they made that up with intelligence and teamwork.

Pippen was hurt in all of the playoff runs in the 2nd threepeat, but that didn't stop him from having a big impact anyway as he just made others around him better when he was on the court as the advanced stats show.

[Axe]

I've always felt like the 2nd 3-peat was a lot harder for the Bulls.

Pippen had one bad playoff run and he was injured in the others. I watch those games and it's crazy to me that they actually pulled it off, Jordan had to carry so much of the offensive load.

I think it boils down to, one having the GOAT obviously and two everyone being a vet who bought in. I see a lot of limitations on the roster and they made that up with intelligence and teamwork.
It was harder yet they've won a lot more during that period.

[Mauzah]

Pippen was hurt in all of the playoff runs in the 2nd threepeat, but that didn't stop him from having a big impact anyway as he just made others around him better when he was on the court as the advanced stats show.

100%. Even Pippen with a clearly injured back running decoy in the finals was better than having him sit on the bench.

People like to focus on the numbers so much but it doesn't tell the whole story. There's plenty of players that fill out the stat sheet but have a poor read on the game. In a lot of ways it can be fools gold and on certain franchises it's all you need and it's all they're looking for.

I think that's part of the reason why so many of us our enjoying the Knicks this season. It's just basketball. Thibbs won't have it any other way.

[Mauzah]

It was harder yet they've won a lot more during that period.

Definitely. By that point they were such a well oiled machine.

Professional basketball in every regard. Even players like Bueshler and Wennington could come in for spotty minutes and provide a solid contribution.

[light]

It seems like the worse MJ played the more they helped him win.

91 finals - 6.6 fta per game...(no help needed, mj shot 56% from the field, 50% from 3pt)
92 finals - 7.7 fta per game...(no help needed, mj shot 53% from the field, 43% from 3pt)
93 finals - 8.1 fta per game...(no help needed, mj shot 51% from the field, 41% from 3pt)
96 finals - 11.2 fta per game...(major help needed, mj chucked at 41% from the field, 31% from 3pt)
97 finals - 9.2 fta per game...(major help needed, mj chucked at 45% from the field, 32% from 3pt)
98 finals - 11.7 fta per game...(major help needed, mj chucked at 42% from the field, 30% from 3pt)

this trend gets even more interesting when you consider the fact that jordan from 96-98 was primarily a midrange jump shooter.

They were protecting the golden goose.

[egokiller]

It's common knowledge that MJ during the 2nd 3 peat had developed his trash talk to such a ridiculous level that he got into the heads of his opponents much easier, resulting in them abandoning sound defensive fundamentals and fouling him much more, even during a jump shot. As a result, MJ's fg% dropped knowing he was going to get fouled more so his follow through had actually changed to account for the inevitable fouls he knew he would endure. This in turn caused his fg% to take a hit. Honestly he would have been better off toning down the trash talk as that would have resulted in similar fg% to his first 3 peat, but he was so thrilled with the idea of getting into the heads of his opponents that he couldn't resist. GOAT gonna GOAT! :pimp:

[HoopsNY]

Very odd analysis. By your own admission, he won in both circumstances. But conveniently he won because he was getting help from the refs? By this logic, it should translate to the team FTA, too, right? After all, the "plan" was to get Chicago win and help MJ, right?

1991

LAL: 137 FTA
CHI: 92 FTA

1992

POR: 185 FTA
CHI: 163 FTA

1993

PHO: 161 FTA
CHI: 130 FTA

1996

SEA: 154 FTA
CHI: 169 FTA

1997

UTA: 161 FTA
CHI: 141 FTA

1998

CHI: 148 FTA
UTA: 112 FTA

4 of the 6 finals had Chicago's opposing team getting to the line significantly more. Yet the refs were "helping" MJ?

[TheCorporation]

It's common knowledge that MJ during the 2nd 3 peat had developed his trash talk to such a ridiculous level that he got into the heads of his opponents much easier, resulting in them abandoning sound defensive fundamentals and fouling him much more, even during a jump shot. As a result, MJ's fg% dropped knowing he was going to get fouled more so his follow through had actually changed to account for the inevitable fouls he knew he would endure. This in turn caused his fg% to take a hit. Honestly he would have been better off toning down the trash talk as that would have resulted in similar fg% to his first 3 peat, but he was so thrilled with the idea of getting into the heads of his opponents that he couldn't resist. GOAT gonna GOAT! :pimp:

https://i.postimg.cc/GpJ55DyS/Inthide-Hoopth.png

[Johnny32]

They were protecting the golden goose.

fax.

[Axe]

https://i.postimg.cc/GpJ55DyS/Inthide-Hoopth.png
:lol

[Spurs m8]

In another 20years, will these losers still be crying over a guy almost 40 years into retirement? Hahahhaha

Get a life....your boy will never be goat...hes not even close

[Johnny32]

In another 20years, will these losers still be crying over a guy almost 40 years into retirement? Hahahhaha

Get a life....your boy will never be goat...hes not even close

you seem upset.

[Smoke117]

In another 20years, will these losers still be crying over a guy almost 40 years into retirement? Hahahhaha

Get a life....your boy will never be goat...hes not even close

Retard m8 bringing up Bran in a thread that has nothing to do with him...AGAIN. The obsession lives on. :lol

[Spurs m8]

I couldn't even imagine being in the 2040s and sooking about a player that is playing currently

That's how pathetic you are hahahaah

[TheCorporation]

In another 20years, will these losers still be crying over a guy almost 40 years into retirement? Hahahhaha

Get a life....your boy will never be goat...hes not even close

https://i.postimg.cc/dVQ29yyW/23hasAsaviorPIP.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/Wb3J15qc/7491_vs_5987_LBJ__1.png

[Spurs m8]

Retard m8 bringing up Bran in a thread that has nothing to do with him...AGAIN. The obsession lives on. :lol

Because we all know these threads are started by losers with bron jacking motives, drunky

[HoopsNY]

Very odd analysis. By your own admission, he won in both circumstances. But conveniently he won because he was getting help from the refs? By this logic, it should translate to the team FTA, too, right? After all, the "plan" was to get Chicago win and help MJ, right?

1991

LAL: 137 FTA
CHI: 92 FTA

1992

POR: 185 FTA
CHI: 163 FTA

1993

PHO: 161 FTA
CHI: 130 FTA

1996

SEA: 154 FTA
CHI: 169 FTA

1997

UTA: 161 FTA
CHI: 141 FTA

1998

CHI: 148 FTA
UTA: 112 FTA

4 of the 6 finals had Chicago's opposing team getting to the line significantly more. Yet the refs were "helping" MJ?

***Crickets from LeFlop stans***

[Axe]

In another 20years, will these losers still be crying over a guy almost 40 years into retirement? Hahahhaha

Get a life....your boy will never be goat...hes not even close
Are you ok lonely m8? :ohwell:

[Spurs m8]

https://i.postimg.cc/dVQ29yyW/23hasAsaviorPIP.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/Wb3J15qc/7491_vs_5987_LBJ__1.png

Since when are longevity stat padding records relevant?hahahaahah

[Spurs m8]

https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_800/MTc1NDU3NzQ1NDczMDUzODkw/michael-jordan-versus-lebron-james.webp

[TheCorporation]

https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_800/MTc1NDU3NzQ1NDczMDUzODkw/michael-jordan-versus-lebron-james.webp

Jordan's greatest acheivement:

11th most rings :lol

Next

[97 bulls]

Jordan's greatest acheivement:

11th most rings :lol

Next

I see a hell of a lot more than rings there lol

[97 bulls]

Very odd analysis. By your own admission, he won in both circumstances. But conveniently he won because he was getting help from the refs? By this logic, it should translate to the team FTA, too, right? After all, the "plan" was to get Chicago win and help MJ, right?

1991

LAL: 137 FTA
CHI: 92 FTA

1992

POR: 185 FTA
CHI: 163 FTA

1993

PHO: 161 FTA
CHI: 130 FTA

1996

SEA: 154 FTA
CHI: 169 FTA

1997

UTA: 161 FTA
CHI: 141 FTA

1998

CHI: 148 FTA
UTA: 112 FTA

4 of the 6 finals had Chicago's opposing team getting to the line significantly more. Yet the refs were "helping" MJ?

Hold up. Nobody gonna respond to this?

[HoopsNY]

Hold up. Nobody gonna respond to this?

Of course not. You've seen me on this forum for over a year. Do LeBron stans ever respond to guys like me dankok, Kuniva, or yourself? The only one who really engages with any kind of analysis, to his credit, is 1987_Lakers. And while he concedes to some points and is clearly off, he at least responds with some kind of analysis.

You explained why the expansion argument is weak. Did guys like light respond?

[Shooter]

Guys?

[kawhileonard2]

Need an answer on each thread below.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT

Record against teams with an SRS of 5.0 or higher.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497187-Record-against-teams-with-an-SRS-of-5-0-or-higher

Not 3, not 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Playoff Mode Activated or A Storm is Coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494319-Not-3-not-4-5-6-7-8-or-Playoff-Mode-Activated-or-A-Storm-is-Coming/page2


Playoff Mode: ACTIVATED
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473762-Playoff-Mode-ACTIVATED

Lowest Scoring Supporting Cast Overall Playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?463869-Lowest-Scoring-Supporting-Cast-Overall-Playoffs/page3


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499837-Greatest-floor-raise-of-all-time/page2
Lebron played with Shaq who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's and lost in round 2. Lebron played with Peak Duncan who had won 2 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's and won bronze medal. Lebron played with Peak Wade who won finals mvp and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron played with Derrick Rose who won mvp under age 30 which was the same as Kevin Durant who won mvp under 30 while both were on Golden State and Cleveland. Lebron played with mulitple PER leaders as well and now Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and more triple doubles than Oscar Robertson. Yet despite all of that Lebron lost with all of them.


Jarrett Allen vs Gobert and Jarrett Allen vs Lebron
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499786-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Gobert-and-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500431-Lakers-were-1-in-Preseason-Odds-in-2021-and-Suns-were-14
Was #1 in Preseason odds and lost to a 14th seed in odds

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html

And Devin Booker walked them down in the playoffs with Devin outplaying Lebron. :confusedshrug:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500416-Why-did-Pelinka-surround-Lebron-with-a-bullshit-roster
He has peak Anthony Davis, the best player on the 2020 squad and the reason the Lakers did anything as the 2019 Lakers missed the playoffs and 2021 Lakers lost in round 1 when AD wasn't around. He has Prime Melo who won a scoring title and all time leader in scoring for the Olympics. He has Dwight Howard a 3x DPOY and a guy who beat Lebron without HCA. He has Westbrook who is the modern day Oscar Robertson and also won league mvp along with average a Triple Double 4 years in a row. He also has Rondo who is a hall of famer.

Why didn't he play it against Dwight Howard in 2009 when Dwight was dominating http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?459570-How-is-it-even-possible-to-lose-to-Dwight-Howard-in-a-series-with-HCA/page10? Or against Duncan or KG or Dirk? Why did he run away from KD a guy at his position?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head

Why didn't he do **** against Booker in the playoffs as well?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron


Devin Booker broke Lebron
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500264-Devin-Booker-broke-Lebron&p=14500724


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503966-3ball-why-can-LeBron-win-with-Irving-but-KD-can-t&p=14584482#post14584482

Lebron won bronze medal twice and lost with HCA 3x. Jordan only won gold medal and never lost with HCA. Prove me wrong!

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500440-Russell-Westbrook-leading-the-league-in-Triple-Doubles-Thus-far-in-2022-Season
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/triple-double-leaders-2021-2022-stats

Expected Championships Won and Titles Over Expected
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500379-Expected-Championships-Won-and-Titles-Over-Expected/page3&p=14503600


How did LeBron go 10-16 vs Kawhi? 7-12 vs Shaq? 17-23 vs Curry?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500334-How-did-LeBron-go-10-16-vs-Kawhi-7-12-vs-Shaq-17-23-vs-Curry

Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #1
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497028-Top-50-All-Time-List-Shot-Clock-Era-1&p=14426360&viewfull=1#post14426360


Difference between Lebron and Tmac?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494830-Difference-between-Lebron-and-Tmac
Both 0-2 with HCA against 50+ win teams until they joined forces with someone who won as the man. Also won bronze medals.

Tmac lost to Utah in 2007 while Lebron was losing to a career loser in Dwight Howard and also Carlos Arroyo in the Olympics with peak Tim Duncan on his squad despite playing more minutes than Hakeem even played on the 1996 Olympic team.



LeBron's message that makes the NBA shake: A storm is coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500734-LeBron-s-message-that-makes-the-NBA-shake-A-storm-is-coming

https://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2021/04/09/6070b833ca47418e588b45e9.html


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?480740-Vasileios-Spanoulis-gt-gt-gt-Lebron-James
Outplayed Lebron in FIBA and caused America to get another bronze medal and then Greece got spanked in Gold medal final.:oldlol:

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/game/p/gid/A/grid/75/rid/5152/sid/3507/_/2006_FIBA_World_Championship/statistic.html


First Time Ever a team with 2 guys who won MVP missed the playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503543-First-Time-Ever-a-team-with-2-guys-who-won-MVP-missed-the-playoffs


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503981-Why-does-Lebron-have-2-bronze-medals-while-KD-only-has-gold-medals&p=14584371#post14584371[/QUOTE]

[TheGoatest]

Hey now, he might've gotten a lot of Stern-fixed trips to the free throw line, but at least the refs had the decency to call his offensive fouls accurately.
Oh wait...

https://images4.imagebam.com/ad/7e/b7/MEAEFEH_o.gif

:oldlol: