The numerous painful "near misses" of Wilt's and Kareem's career

[coastalmarker99]

In 3 seasons of high school, Wilt averaged 37 P/G, including 45 P/G as a senior, when he scored 90 twice.

Wilt's teams were 56-3, winning 3 Public League championships, plus 2 Philly city championships.

His teams had 2 perfect seasons. And just 3 games from a perfect HS career

1956:
Wilt was ineligible to play as a freshman at Kansas. But he led the frosh team to a 81-71 victory over the Kansas varsity.

Wilt had 42 & 29 in the game. As comparison, the all-time Kansas records at the time: 44 and 25!

He then led freshman team to an undefeated season.

1957:
Wilt averaged 29.6 P/G and 18.9 R/G. In the slow-paced era, that represented 41% of his teams P/G & 39% of R/G.

After 11-10 and 14-9 seasons, Wilt took Kansas to 24-3 and the NCAA champ game.

The losses:
39-37
56-54
54-53 in 3 OT

5 points from a perfect season! So close


In 1958, Wilt averaged 30.1 P/G, 45% of team. For comparison, Maravich averaged 49%. Wilt also had 17.5 R/G or 39%.

With Wilt, Kansas was 18-3.
All 3 losses by 2 points each.
So Wilt's team was 6 points from perfection. So close.

Wilt missed 2 games: Kansas lost both, by 4 & 6

1959:
Wilt left Kansas after junior yr.

It's too bad. Jayhawks added Bill Bridges, later a college star and a 3x NBA All-Star. Ron Loneski also had a good season in 1959.

Maybe Wilt would have gotten the perfect season he had missed twice.

But without Wilt, Kansas went 11-14.

1960 & 1961, Wilt broke every scoring and rebounding record in his first 2 seasons. He was ROY and MVP as a rookie.

1962:
Wilt averaged 50.4 & 25.7.
Warriors beat Nats in POs.

Against dominant Celtics, the Warriors lost in game 7 in Boston Garden by 2 points.
Again, Wilt was so close.

If Warriors had beaten the Celtics, they would have to beat the Lakers to win the title. But both teams were evenly matched.

1963:
Wilt averaged 45 & 23, but Warriors miss playoffs.

1964:
Wilt averaged 37, 22, 5
Warriors beat tough Hawks in POs.

Vs. dominant Celtics in Finals, Wilt plays well (29, 28, 2, 52%). But his teammates are horrible, shooting 35% collectively.


1965:
Wilt averaged 35, 23, 3 in RS.
In POs, 76ers upset favoured Royals.

Against dominant Celtics, Wilt averaged 30, 31, 3 on 56% FG. But the 76ers lost in game 7 by 1 point.

Again, Wilt was so close.

Baylor injured, so the 76ers would have had a good chance against the Lakers in Finals.

1966:
Wilt averaged 34, 25, 5 and won his second MVP.
76ers had the best RS record (by 1 game over the Celtics).

Vs. Celtics, Wilt averaged 28, 30, 3, 51%.
But his teammates were horrible, shooting 35% collectively. 76ers lost.

1967:
Wilt averaged 24, 24, 8, 68% FG. Won 3rd MVP.
76ers set all-time record of 68-13.

In POs, Wilt averaged 22, 29, 9, 58%.
76ers beat Royals (3-1) Celtics (4-1), Warriors (4-1).
Wilt would have been FMVP.

Finally, Wilt's wins a ring!

1968:
Wilt averaged 24, 24, 8, 60%. Won 4th MVP.
76ers best record.

But teammate Billy Cunningham broke his wrist.
Vs. Celtics, Wilt 22, 25, 7, but teammates shoot 40%. 76ers lost in game 7 by 4 points.

Again, so close.

76ers would have been favoured against the Lakers in Finals.


1969:
Wilt joins the Lakers. With West & Baylor, he helps the team to the Finals.

Wilt did not play great in Finals (West did). But Wilt saves best for last in game 7: He shoots 7-8, scores 18, and gets 27 REB along with 10 blocks in 43 minutes. But the coach pulled him out & kept him on the bench.

The Lakers then lost by 2.

1970:
Wilt had a serious knee injury during RS. But he managed to return for POs. Helped Lakers to Finals.

In Finals against a dominant Knick team, Wilt averaged 23, 24, 4, 63% FG: More than matches Willis Reed (23, 11, 3, 48%).
But Walt Frazier smoked West in game 7 & the Lakers lost.

1971:
West & Baylor both injured in POs. But along with Goodrich, Wilt led the Lakers to an upset over the Bulls.

In WCF against dominant (66-16) Bucks, Wilt played MVP Kareem evenly:
Wilt 22, 19, 2 49%
KAJ: 25, 17, 4 48%

But Bucks were too much for Wilt's teammates (Goodrich shot 36%).

1972:
In RS, the Lakers set all-time record, 69-13. Wilt won his 10th rebounding title and was 3rd in MVP voting.

In POs, the Lakers go 12-3.
In Finals, Wilt averaged 19, 23, 3, 60%FG, and won FMVP.

Wilt wins his second ring.


1973:
In RS, the Lakers went 60-22, and Wilt won his 11th REB title and was 4th in MVP voting at age 36.

The Lakers won the West POs.

In Finals against the Knicks, the Lakers lost 3 games by 4, 4, and 5 points.

Wilt's "near misses":
1957: Lost by 1 in NCAA Final. 5 points from a perfect season.
1958: 6 pts from a perfect season
1962: 2 pts from beating Celtics
1965: 1 pt from beating Celtics
1967: Won champ
1968: 4 pts from beating Celtics
1969: 2 pts from beating Celtics
1972: Won 2nd ring

[coastalmarker99]

I believe that Kareem would be acknowledged as the GOAT with just a few historical changes.

Criteria:
Kareem stays the exact-same quality as a player.
Make only minor changes by teammates/opponents


If ...
Kareem's teammates played decently in 1972 & 1974 (and possibly 1977 &1981) POs.
Kareem won 1980 FMVP.
Magic hadn't been injured in 1981.
The Lakers won in 1984.
Kareem retired in 1988.
Then ..


If all that had happened, Kareem would have:
6 MVPs
9-11 rings (instead of 6: including 1972, 74, 84, and possibly 1977, 81).
6 FMVPs (instead of 2: including 1972, 74, 80, 84)
2 Finals losses (instead of 4)

These numbers (along with his legendary stats) would make him GOAT, IMO


Kareem's career started in 1969-70. He took the Bucks, an expansion team who had had the second-worst record in 1969, to 56 wins, second-most in 1970.

He averaged 29, 15, 4, .552 TS% and won ROY. He had a case for MVP (3rd in voting).

In 1970 POs, Kareem played great (35, 16, 4, .608 TS). But he got little help, and his Bucks lost to an excellent Knicks team 4-1. The Bucks lost a couple of close games. But really, the Knicks were clearly better.

1970: No change.


1971:
Kareem averaged 32, 16, 3, .606 TS, and won MVP. The Bucks, who had added Oscar Robertson, had the best record. Bucks went 12-2 in POs and won champ. Kareem was FMVP.

1971: No changes.

1972:
Kareem had one of the best regular seasons ever. He averaged 35, 17, 5, .603 TS, and won 2nd MVP. The bucks had 2nd-best record behind record-setting Lakers.

In 1972 WCF, Kareem (34, 18, 5, .482 TS) totally outplayed Wilt (11, 19, 3, .472 TS). But the Lakers won the series 4-2.

However, the Bucks lost games by 1, 3, and 4 points to the Lakers!

Oscar played terribly (9, 5, 6, .402 TS). If Oscar plays average, the Bucks win those close ones and win the series.

In Finals, the Lakers easily beat Knicks 4-1 to win the title (Reed was injured). So Bucks would have likely won, too

If Bucks win champ in 1972, Kareem's GOAT case is much stronger!

He would have 7 rings vs. Jordan's 6. He also would have kept Wilt, his main competition as GOAT center, from Wilt's 2nd ring and a FMVP.

And 2 rings in first 3 years for Kareem would have been legendary!


1973:
Another great RS for Kareem: 30, 16, 5, .580 TS. Should have been MVP. Bucks had 2nd-best record.

But in POs, Kareem underperformed (23, 16, 3, .447 TS) vs. Nate Thurmond. Bucks were upset by Warriors 4-2.

1973 PO loss was Kareem's fault, so no change.

1974:
Kareem: 27, 15, 5, .564 TS. Won 3rd MVP. Bucks had best record.

POs: Kareem played great. Bucks won 4-1, 4-0 in first 2 rounds.

Finals: Kareem great: 33, 12, 5, .552 TS. But he got little help (Oscar: 12, 4, 8, .476 TS). Bucks lost 4-3. If teammates play well, Bucks win.

If Kareem's teammates had played decently in 1972 & 1974 POs:

In first 5 seasons:
3 MVPs (plus one robbed)
3 rings
3 FMVPs

By 1974 (year 5), he'd be a strong 3rd place as GOAT.

For his career, he'd have 8 rings and 4 FMVPs.


1975:
Kareem played well (30, 14, 4, .550 TS, led NBA in BLK). But he was injured. Oscar also had retired. Bucks were 38-44 and missed POs.

1976:
Kareem's first yr w/ Lakers. 28, 17, 4, .567 TS, led in BLK. Won 4th MVP. But teammates were bad: Lakers were 40-42 and missed POs.


1977:
In the regular season, Kareem averaged 26, 13, 5, .608 TS. Won 5th MVP (in 8th year). Lakers 53-29, best record in NBA.

1977 POs: Lakers won 1st round.

1977 WCF: Lakers swept by Walton's Blazers, 4-0. Kareem was great: 30, 16, 4, .660. But Lucius Allen was injured. Lakers lost games by 2, 5, 4 points! If teammates better, possibly win. If so, Kareem's reputation higher & Walton's lower.

Lakers would have had homecourt in Final

1978:
Kareem played well (26, 13, 4, .589 TS) but injured. Still 4th in MVP.

Lakers were 45-37. In 1st round, they lost 1-2 to Sonics. Kareem played well (27, 14, 4, .526 TS). With more teammate help, Lakers likely beat Sonics. But doubtful they would have gone a lot further.

1979:
Kareem: 24, 13, 5, .612 TS, led in BLK. 4th in MVP. Lakers 47-35.

POs: Lakers won first round. But then they lost to Sonics 4-1. Lakers lost games by 5, 2, 6. Kareem great (29, 12, 5, .617 TS), so better teammate play might have won it. But how much further in POs?

1980:
Kareem averaged 25, 11, 5, .639 TS, led NBA in BLK. He won his 6th MVP (in year 11).

Adding Magic Johnson, the Lakers went 60-22, second-best in the NBA.

In first two PO rounds, Kareem played great and Lakers went 4-1, 4-1.


1980 Finals:

Kareem was on his way to FMVP (33, 14, 3, .578 TS) when he was injured in game 5. With Kareem out, Magic played great and won FMVP.

Kareem almost won FMVP anyway. If he had, or if he had been able to hobble around, he may have won FMVP. This would help GOAT case.


1981:
Kareem: 26, 10, 3, .616. 3rd in MVP. Magic injured and Lakers were 54-28.

POs: Lakers upset in 1st round, 2-1. Kareem played well (27, 17, 4, .517 TS), but Magic shot poorly (39% FG).

If Magic played better (or hadn't been injured), Lakers might have made another Finals.


1982: Kareem:
RS: 24, 9, 3, .608 TS. Lakers 57-25.
PO: 20, 9, 4, .550 TS. Lakers win champ (his 3rd).

1983: Kareem:
RS: 22, 8, 3, .619 TS.
PO: 27, 8, 3, .608 TS. He played well in Final (24, 8, 3, .599 TS), but Lakers were swept by Moses Malone and 76ers.

1984: Kareem:
RS: 22, 7, 3, .608 TS. 4th in MVP. Lakers 54-28.

PO: 24, 8, 4, .592 TS.


1984 Finals: Lakers lost 4-3 to Celtics.

Lakers could have won: Magic and Worthy made errors in game 2, which would have given Lakers 2-0 lead with both wins in Boston. They also lost game 4 in overtime.

Kareem had 27, 8, 4, .519 TS, and might have won FMVP if Lakers had won.

1985: Kareem:
RS: 22, 8, 3, .628 TS. 4th in MVP. Lakers 62-20.

PO: 22, 8, 4, .602 TS. Lakers won champ, and Kareem was FMVP.

1986: Kareem:

RS: 23, 6, 4, .603 TS. 5th in MVP. Lakers were 62-20.

PO: 26, 6, 4, .586 TS. Lakers won first 2 rounds, but then lost to Rockets. Kareem played well (27, 7, 3, .528), but was outplayed by Hakeem.

1987: Kareem
RS: 18, 7, 3, .597 TS. Lakers were 65-17, NBA's best record.
PO: 19, 7, 2, .600 TS. Lakers won champ.

1988: Kareem:
RS: 15, 6, 2, .532 TS. Lakers were 62-20, NBA's best record.
PO: 14, 6, 2, .504 TS. Lakers won champ.

If Kareem had quit after 1988 season, he would have avoided his bad 1989 season, which was capped off by a 4-0 embarrassment in the Finals by the Pistons.

With just a few changes, Kareem would have:

6 MVPs (1971, 72, 74, 76, 77, 80)
9-11 rings (1971, 80, 82, 85, 87, 88, plus 72, 74, 84, and maybe 77, 81).
5 FMVPs (1971, 85, plus 72, 74, 80, 84)
1 loss in Finals (1983, and not 74, 84, 89)
5-6 FMVPs.

With Kareem adding rings and FMVPs in 1972, 74, 84 (plus FMVP in 1980) and retiring after 1988:

MVPs:
6 KAJ
5 MJ
4 LBJ

1st All-NBA:
13 LBJ
10 KAJ
10 MJ

FMVPs
6 MJ
6* KAJ
4 LBJ

Finals record:
9-1* KAJ
6-0 MJ

[PeroAntic]

My head hurts after reading this..

[mehyaM24]

i have a sneaking suspicion OP is jlauber. not totally sure, but damn if they dont have the same obsession :oldlol:

[Chick Stern]

Kareem is the GOAT. There is no question.

[coastalmarker99]

i have a sneaking suspicion OP is jlauber. not totally sure, but damn if they don't have the same obsession:oldlol:

I am not Jlauber plus I think he died along with Lazarus which is a massive shame.