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View Full Version : Jumpshooting efficiency for Kobe, Lebron, and MJ


3ball
04-29-2021, 09:56 PM
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Effective FG% on all jumpshots for MJ, Kobe, Lebron


Lebron 2004 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 35.6%, 324/998
Lebron 2005 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.9%, 400/1136
Lebron 2006 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 41.7%, 423/1166
Lebron 2007 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.5%, 372/1066
Lebron 2008 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.4%, 338/1001
Lebron 2009 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 42.2%, 366/1024
Lebron 2010 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.4%, 356/970
Lebron 2011 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 45.4%, 393/968
Lebron 2012 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.7%, 290/726
Lebron 2013 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 49.0%, 333/784
Lebron 2014 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 47.0%, 288/736
Lebron 2015 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.1%, 280/788
Lebron 2016 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 39.0%, 181/543
Lebron 2017 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 44.8%, 226/643
Lebron 2018 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 47.2%, 304/802
Lebron 2019 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 47.2%, 210/563


Bryant 2000 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=1999-00&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 38.5%, 328/851
Bryant 2001 (http://www.nba.com/player/977/shooting/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.0%, 460/1141
Bryant 2002 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 41.8%, 478/1184
Bryant 2003 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2002-03&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 44.1%, 597/1494
Bryant 2004 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2003-04&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 40.3%, 282/787
Bryant 2005 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2004-05&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.5%, 346/947
Bryant 2006 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 46.5%, 709/1724
Bryant 2007 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2006-07&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 46.7%, 556/1358
Bryant 2008 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2007-08&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 44.6%, 468/1217
Bryant 2009 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 45.0%, 519/1285
Bryant 2010 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/977/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 43.8%, 444/1226


Jordan 1997 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/893/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 51.2%, 727/1528
Jordan 1998 (http://stats.nba.com/stats/player/893/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 42.4%, 600/1449


^^^Lebron shoots about 39-40% at the higher volumes of 1000 attempts, while MJ/Kobe were shooting 45% or more at 1000-1500 attempts

Lebron needed lower volume of 700 attempts to have better efficiency of 45% or more.

So Lebron lacks the jumpshooting skill to shoot well at high volume, while MJ/Kobe shot great at high volume due to elite jumpshooting skill.

Furthermore, Lebron's rim attack is ball-dominant, while Jordan's superior jumpshooting skill allowed off-ball and ball movement, higher team assists, better fit with teammates, better team offenses with less help, and ultimately, superior team ceilings/Finals record.




..................eFG% All Jumpshots

Lebron 2006 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2005-06&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 41.7%, 423/1166 <----- lebron's highest VOLUME year
Lebron 2013 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 49.0%, 333/784 <----- lebron's highest EFFICIENCY year

Jordan 1997 (http://www.nba.com/stats/player/893/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season): 51.2%, 727/1528 <----- nearly twice the volume with better efficiency than lebron's best
3ball
04-30-2021, 01:21 PM
Lol everyone salty the links actually work

Indeed, the truth is tough to take sometimes
HoopsNY
04-30-2021, 01:30 PM
Does anyone actually debate this? No one thinks LeBron and Kobe were better jump-shooters than MJ. You're wasting your time.
3ball
04-30-2021, 01:39 PM
Does anyone actually debate this? No one thinks LeBron and Kobe were better jump-shooters than MJ. You're wasting your time.


The stats show that MJ/Kobe are the goat jumpshooters

No one is close their combination of volume and efficiency

No one carried their teams with jumpers like they did
KobesFinger
04-30-2021, 01:40 PM
The 2006 one for Kobe is particularly impressive to me due to the combination of volume and efficiency, with the added context of just how bad the Lakers were offensively without him. Aren't they something like bottom 3 all time with Kobe off the floor?
3ball
04-30-2021, 01:45 PM
The 2006 one for Kobe is particularly impressive to me due to the combination of volume and efficiency, with the added context of just how bad the Lakers were offensively without him. Aren't they something like bottom 3 all time with Kobe off the floor?


Something like that

But the 94' Bulls had the #6 defense, or the same as the 1st three-peat (7th, 4th, 7th)

So the unprecedented decline from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round caliber was due to the absence of MJ's goat offense, which caused the Bulls' ORTG to decline from #1 all-time to #14 in the league in 94'

So the Bulls had trash offense without Jordan too, and that was with the triangle and 3-peat system (while 06' Kobe had Rudy T's offense)
SouBeachTalents
04-30-2021, 01:50 PM
Something like that

But the 94' Bulls had the #6 defense, or the same as the 1st three-peat (7th, 4th, 7th)

So the unprecedented decline from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round caliber was due to the absence of MJ's goat offense, which caused the Bulls' ORTG to decline from #1 all-time to #14 in the league in 94'

So the Bulls had trash offense without Jordan too, and that was with the triangle and 3-peat system (while 06' Kobe had Rudy T's offense)
Yeah, dropping off by 2 wins after losing the GOAT in his prime for nothing is an unprecedented decline :lol

And Phil was the Lakers coach in '06
dankok8
04-30-2021, 02:08 PM
The gap between the 1993 and 1994 Bulls is much bigger than a drop of 2 wins.

1993 Bulls: 112.9 ORtg (2nd), 106.1 DRtg (7th), +6.19 SRS (4th)
1993 Bulls: 106.1 ORtg (14th), 102.7 DRtg (6th), +2.87 SRS (11th)

The first team looks like a contender and the second doesn't.
ShawkFactory
04-30-2021, 02:08 PM
Does anyone actually debate this? No one thinks LeBron and Kobe were better jump-shooters than MJ. You're wasting your time.

That ship sailed a LONG time ago
3ball
04-30-2021, 02:09 PM
Yeah, dropping off by 2 wins after losing the GOAT in his prime for nothing is an unprecedented decline :lol





The Bulls' offense went from #1 all-time to middle of the league without MJ

They made up for it with scrappiness and barely winning games (exposed in playoffs and nothing in 95')..

So that's pretty standard - they were boosted from being a 3-peat champ with something to prove, and then reality sets in the next year in 95'






And Phil was the Lakers coach in '06





Wow so Phil didn't know his own offense, or the caliber of MJ/Kobe because he told MJ that he wouldn't be scoring champ in the triangle

He didn't know that the goat would invent the footwork needed to average 30 in that offense, which Kobe copied
Rolando
04-30-2021, 03:45 PM
Don't even have to look at the stats. I watched them all. Kobe was a chucker. LeBron is fairly good. MJ is a God of jump shooting.
SATAN
04-30-2021, 08:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsjukb2NttM
Johnny32
04-30-2021, 08:33 PM
did kobe retire in 2010?
Manny98
04-30-2021, 08:35 PM
Don't even have to look at the stats. I watched them all. Kobe was a chucker. LeBron is fairly good. MJ is a God of jump shooting.
If MJ is a God of jump shooting then what's Curry
Johnny32
04-30-2021, 08:36 PM
was kobe a rookie in 2000? lol dude is desperate as fk.
LAL
04-30-2021, 08:52 PM
The comments lol. Pretty sad tho.
LAL
04-30-2021, 08:55 PM
Does anyone actually debate this? No one thinks LeBron and Kobe were better jump-shooters than MJ. You're wasting your time.

But sweety you don't have to compare Kobe's jumpshooting with Lebron's lol, just look at those embarassing numbers and difference. Kobe was doing it against serious defense too. Wasting your time honestly.
light
04-30-2021, 08:58 PM
You do realize that Kobe and Jordan are both a lot smaller than LeBron so they did what they needed to do to stay relevant at their size.

Kobe was actually 6'4 and Jordan was 6'5. LeBron is closer to 6'10 and plays Power Forward.

LeBron's size is more useful, more important and more dominant than their midrange shooting, especially since he can also shoot like them but they could never be as physically imposing as him.
LAL
04-30-2021, 09:04 PM
You do realize that Kobe and Jordan are both a lot smaller than LeBron so they did what they needed to do to stay relevant at their size.

Kobe was actually 6'4 and Jordan was 6'5. LeBron is closer to 6'10 and plays Power Forward.

LeBron's size is more useful, more important and more dominant than their midrange shooting, especially since he can also shoot like them but they could never be as physically imposing as him.

Then he should be a power forward like you said. He's not taking that off ball scoring responsability, so he pretends to be an unselfish point guard. Special player bro.
Johnny32
04-30-2021, 09:07 PM
the funny thing is lebron's a better 3pt shooter than both of them. which translates to today's game more than high volume midrange jumpers. and he look out like 6 kobe seasons for a reason lol guy's a clown,
light
04-30-2021, 09:11 PM
Then he should be a power forward like you said. He's not taking that off ball scoring responsability, so he pretends to be an unselfish point guard. Special player bro.

He is always a power forward. He is also always a point guard. We are in the age of positionless basketball, friend - thanks to him. Try to keep up.
light
04-30-2021, 09:12 PM
the funny thing is lebron's a better 3pt shooter than both of them. which translates to today's game more than high volume midrange jumpers. and he look out like 6 kobe seasons for a reason lol guy's a clown,

Kobe and Jordan were good at bad shots.

LeBron is good at good shots.

This argument about their midrange shooting is hilarious because it makes Kobe and MJ look bad.
LAL
04-30-2021, 09:31 PM
He is always a power forward. He is also always a point guard. We are in the age of positionless basketball, friend - thanks to him. Try to keep up.

Okay light
ImKobe
05-01-2021, 03:37 AM
The 2006 one for Kobe is particularly impressive to me due to the combination of volume and efficiency, with the added context of just how bad the Lakers were offensively without him. Aren't they something like bottom 3 all time with Kobe off the floor?

Yeah, they were historically bad, I don't even have to look that up to believe that they were all-time bad because Kobe was playing 41 mpg and needed 40+ to win half of those games.

Kobe's 2006 jump shooting season is better than any of MJ's/Lebron's listed when you consider the amount of 3s he took and the amount of contested 3s he was forced to take with the limited help he had.


the funny thing is lebron's a better 3pt shooter than both of them. which translates to today's game more than high volume midrange jumpers. and he look out like 6 kobe seasons for a reason lol guy's a clown,

He showed their highest volume years and listed Kobe's worst jump shooting season. What are you crying about? Lebron wasn't known as a good 3PT shooter prior to 2013, he had the all-time worst Playoffs 3PT% at his volume (4.5 at 31.8%) back in 2015, he's become a lot better shooting them since but the league is a lot different now.
aj1987
05-01-2021, 10:57 AM
He showed their highest volume years and listed Kobe's worst jump shooting season. What are you crying about? Lebron wasn't known as a good 3PT shooter prior to 2013, he had the all-time worst Playoffs 3PT% at his volume (4.5 at 31.8%) back in 2015, he's become a lot better shooting them since but the league is a lot different now.

Kobe averages 33.1% TS% on 4 shots a game for his career in the PO's. :roll: :roll:
RogueBorg
05-01-2021, 01:43 PM
Yeah, dropping off by 2 wins after losing the GOAT in his prime for nothing is an unprecedented decline :lol

And Phil was the Lakers coach in '06

Everyone who keeps parroting the Bulls only dropped by 2 wins after Jordan left are morons. The 1994 Bulls had 2 less wins in the regular season, 9 less wins in the post-season, and didn't win the championship. That's what happens when you lose the GOAT.
ShawkFactory
05-01-2021, 01:45 PM
But sweety you don't have to compare Kobe's jumpshooting with Lebron's lol, just look at those embarassing numbers and difference. Kobe was doing it against serious defense too. Wasting your time honestly.

Lol serious defense? You act like Kobe and lebrons careers didn’t overlap for 13 years.
FKAri
05-01-2021, 02:19 PM
If you care about this then you have no life. Just enjoy the games. I find myself struggling to do even that.
egokiller
05-01-2021, 02:27 PM
The comments lol. Pretty sad tho.

lol 3ball got em shook again
Ainosterhaspie
05-01-2021, 02:45 PM
This thread isolates for a relatively meaningless subset of scoring which conveniently ignores James strongest scoring abilities which happen to be more useful that mid range jump shots. In other words it's mostly meaningless stats.
ELITEpower23
05-01-2021, 03:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsjukb2NttM
ELITEpower23
05-01-2021, 03:56 PM
Did no one tell him yet?

https://i.postimg.cc/9fXJCztC/Jordan-Can-t-Shoot-1990-3pt-contest.png