New ESPN vid - Kobe dominated midrange and hit unassisted jumpers at a historic rate

[3ball]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zV7T2TLSz4k


the last pure scorer?

I'm surprised the video acknowledged that pure scoring is dead in today's NBA

[Real Men Wear Green]

I have no idea why Durant, Harden, Curry etc. Would not be regarded as scorers but in sure you have some incredibly stupid reason why they aren't "pure."

[mehyaM24]

narrator said kobe was the last pure MIDRANGE scorer. big difference. there are also different interpretations of "pure" but kawhi is very good from midrange too. cool video though. i agree that kobe had a myriad of ways to score (arguably more than anyone). the "unassisted jumper" stat is impressive.

[Bronbron23]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zV7T2TLSz4k


the last pure scorer?

I'm surprised the video acknowledged that pure scoring is dead in today's NBA

I'd say kawhi and kd have elite mids.

[dirkdiggler41]

When you say something like pure midrange scorer I think of Rip Hamilton or Dirk Nowitzki. Kobe scored from everywhere so I would call him a pure scorer.

[Bronbron23]

I have no idea why Durant, Harden, Curry etc. Would not be regarded as scorers but in sure you have some incredibly stupid reason why they aren't "pure."

Harden and curry are great scorers obviously but neither have the all around scoring arsenal that mj and kobe had. Drop harden and curry into the 90's/early 2000's where defenders could actually play real defense and it would be interesting to see how they would make out. They'd still be great but they wouldn't be scoring the way they are now. Kd wouldn't miss a beat.

[hiphopanonymous]

Kobe's fire and hardwork from such a young age was remarkable. He was destined for success with that kind of focus mixed with his NBA pedigree. Rare combo, most NBA player's kids either don't have the talent or the drive to reach superstardom like that. Like Mike Tyson said about his own kids, they just aren't hungry enough. Kobe maximized his talents for his body type and the rules of his era (he had GOAT caliber all around BBIQ and ability IMO not just contested 2's) which is only what few players can ever say (usually the top few of any respective era). Last of the dominating 2 point physical defense era shooters and one of the best ever at it.

Since I like to highlight historic basketball footage I predict In the future some kids will watch his highlights and go "bad shots why didn't he just double-step back for an open 3 more / why is he attacking a crowded lane / why isn't he taking 3 giant eurostep strides more often?" - not knowing the double step backs / late gathers / among other things was a travel nor any of the other pressures that made Kobe correctly decide to attack the way he attacked. He played a game of inches where as today's game looks more like a game of yards.

[StrongLurk]

And yet, for all of Kobe's scoring "skills", he could never dominate the playoffs and specifically the finals with his scoring on a consistent basis compared to some other all time greats.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Harden and curry are great scorers obviously but neither have the all around scoring arsenal that mj and kobe had. Drop harden and curry into the 90's/early 2000's where defenders could actually play real defense and it would be interesting to see how they would make out. They'd still be great but they wouldn't be scoring the way they are now. Kd wouldn't miss a beat.
A respectable three-point shooter of the modern era would be unheard-of great in 1992.The only thing that would keep Curry from averaging 30 would be the head coach that thought his shot selection was crazy. A single defender can not take away Curry, Harden, Iving, etc's air space while keep him from getting by them. That's why these players are great now and it would have transferred to any era. Yeah a 90s defender would be more physical than they're used to but on the flip side Joe Dumars never dealt with someone like Lillaird that can and will take a step inside the half court line and fire. I respect the old school but you can't chalk the evolution of the modern player exclusively up to rule changes.

[BigKobeFan]

6:50 mark. Bran got some nasty ass defensive moves

[3ball]

I have no idea why Durant, Harden, Curry etc. Would not be regarded as scorers but in sure you have some incredibly stupid reason why they aren't "pure."


Pure scoring refers to contested shot-making, which was more required without spacing.. It also refers to a sort of instinctual ability to use moves and get tough shots off.

Today's spacing still requires some pure scoring, but usually allows "flow points", aka layups or threes... the spacing simply doesn't require contested jumpshooting or instinct in traffic to get shots off

Previous eras were simply far superior pure scorers and contested shot-makers than today's flow points experts, which is why previous era scorers would think today's game is easy - a beginner format that provides wide lanes and automatic, hands-off penetration and movement

[Uncle Drew]

Pure scoring. :oldlol:

[3ball]

Pure scoring. :oldlol:


It's a common basketball phrase and basketball 101

Pure scoring refers to contested shot-making, which was more required without spacing.. It also refers to a sort of instinctual ability to use moves and get tough shots off.

Pure scoring is at the heart of basketball... it IS basketball, so today's format of flow points (layups, threes) has taken the basketball out of basketball.. threes and layups is more of a technique or drill, than a sport

[Bronbron23]

A respectable three-point shooter of the modern era would be unheard-of great in 1992.The only thing that would keep Curry from averaging 30 would be the head coach that thought his shot selection was crazy. A single defender can not take away Curry, Harden, Iving, etc's air space while keep him from getting by them. That's why these players are great now and it would have transferred to any era. Yeah a 90s defender would be more physical than they're used to but on the flip side Joe Dumars never dealt with someone like Lillaird that can and will take a step inside the half court line and fire. I respect the old school but you can't chalk the evolution of the modern player exclusively up to rule changes.

Right but late in the post season where the game more resembles the 90's defensively neither can dominate and score as easy and good as they do in the regular season.

And the only difference between gaurds now and gaurds then is the game is catered to their skills now. The league literally put in rules to allow perimeter players to do what they do. Why did they put the rules in to help perimeter players score if evolution already had that taken care of?

[3ball]

A respectable three-point shooter of the modern era would be unheard-of great in 1992.The only thing that would keep Curry from averaging 30 would be the head coach that thought his shot selection was crazy. A single defender can not take away Curry, Harden, Iving, etc's air space while keep him from getting by them. That's why these players are great now and it would have transferred to any era. Yeah a 90s defender would be more physical than they're used to but on the flip side Joe Dumars never dealt with someone like Lillaird that can and will take a step inside the half court line and fire. I respect the old school but you can't chalk the evolution of the modern player exclusively up to rule changes.


Yes everyone knows that if you give Curry 8-12 threes a game, he can average 30

But the problem is that such strategy didn't exist until Curry's 4th season..

The majority of Curry's threes are assisted and the high screen, drive-and-kick strategy that yields today's massive volume and a ton of catch-and-shoots didn't exist until Curry's 4th year

Indeed, Curry was only a 19 ppg scorer before the league format turned to a 3-point contest

[RRR3]

Yes everyone knows that if you give Curry 8-12 threes a game, he can average 30

But the problem is that such strategy didn't exist until Curry's 4th season.. The majority of Curry's threes are assisted and the high screen, drive-and-kick strategy that yields today's massive volume and a ton of catch-and-shoots didn't exist until Curry's 4th year

Indeed, Curry was only a 19 ppg scorer before the league format turned to a 3-point contest
More like Curry took time to develop just like basically every other player ever you ****ing idiot.

[3ball]

More like Curry took time to develop just like basically every other player ever you ****ing idiot.


You watch the league, yet apparently I know more than you

The reason guys take a ton of threes is because of the 3-point strategy

Without it, Curry wouldn't get as many threes and wouldn't be a big scorer

The majority of Curry's threes are assisted and the high screen, drive-and-kick strategy that yields today's massive volume and a ton of catch-and-shoots didn't exist until Curry's 4th year

Indeed, Curry was only a 19 ppg scorer before the league format turned to a 3-point contest

[SouBeachTalents]

You watch the league, yet apparently I know more than you

The reason guys take a ton of threes is because of the 3-point strategy

Without it, Curry wouldn't get as many threes and wouldn't be a big scorer

The majority of Curry's threes are assisted and the high screen, drive-and-kick strategy that yields today's massive volume and a ton of catch-and-shoots didn't exist until Curry's 4th year

Indeed, Curry was only a 19 ppg scorer before the league format turned to a 3-point contest
Oubre > Klay

[tpols]

Kobe is the GOAT bailout artist. He took all the tough shots. I have to say though... Curry is even more ridiculous. He hits shots on a regular basis that MJ and Kobe could only dream of making.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe is the GOAT bailout artist. He took all the tough shots. I have to say though... Curry is even more ridiculous. He hits shots on a regular basis that MJ and Kobe could only dream of making.
Yet it was Kobe's teammates who were always bailing him out by hitting all the big shots

[3ball]

Oubre > Klay


in the 70's

sometimes I forget there's a 3-point line

maybe Oubre is better in like 2009 too

[mehyaM24]

in the 70's

sometimes I forget there's a 3-point line

maybe Oubre is better in like 2009 too

lol the 3-point line was around before you started watching basketball.

[Ainosterhaspie]

You watch the league, yet apparently I know more than you

The reason guys take a ton of threes is because of the 3-point strategy

Without it, Curry wouldn't get as many threes and wouldn't be a big scorer

The majority of Curry's threes are assisted and the high screen, drive-and-kick strategy that yields today's massive volume and a ton of catch-and-shoots didn't exist until Curry's 4th year

Indeed, Curry was only a 19 ppg scorer before the league format turned to a 3-point contest
Your description of the nature of Curry's threes isn't accurate and even if it was, you are describing things Allen and Miller did before him. There's no reason Curry couldn't produce like Miller in a prior era. That's his floor, and Miller had 30+ PPG series and a 24 ppg regular season.

Curry deserves credit for forcing the league to shift to a 3 point format as you call it. He pioneered that. You don't dock a guy for being so good at something it changes the league, you give him massive props for that.

[SouBeachTalents]

in the 70's

sometimes I forget there's a 3-point line

maybe Oubre is better in like 2009 too
Your username is 3ball, shut the fck up

[Ainosterhaspie]

Kobe is the GOAT bailout artist. He took all the tough shots. I have to say though... Curry is even more ridiculous. He hits shots on a regular basis that MJ and Kobe could only dream of making.

GOAT at missing bailout shots thanks to extreme volume and horrid efficiency making less than 1 out of 3 during his career. Guy was a poster child for shooting his team out of games, but people only seem to remember the one made not the 2+ missed many of which should have been passes instead of shots.

[3ball]

Your username is 3ball, shut the fck up


The point remains... Oubre >>> without the 3-point line, and quite possibly without modern 3-point strategy, so in like 2009

[tpols]

The 3pt line was around for the entirety of MJ's career. Its nobody's fault but his own he couldn't take advantage of its 50% point bonus. But what it ultimately comes down to is Jordan lacked the high arcing jump shot necessary to dominate long range shooting ala Bird, Dirk, Chef. His jumper was too line drive.

[Bronbron23]

More like Curry took time to develop just like basically every other player ever you ****ing idiot.

He's right dude. Anyone who thinks cury or anyone is shooting 10 3's a game in the 90's is an idiot. He barely shot 5 threes a game just 7 or 8 years ago and curry could shoot like this from day 1. As the league shot more curry shot more.

[3ball]

The 3pt line was around for the entirety of MJ's career. Its nobody's fault but his own he couldn't take advantage of its 50% point bonus. But what it ultimately comes down to is Jordan lacked the high arcing jump shot necessary to dominate long range shooting ala Bird, Dirk, Chef. His jumper was too line drive.


It wasn't just Jordan that didn't take advantage of threes

It was the entire league that didn't take advantage until Curry's 4th season, when the league strategy turned into a 3-point contest

So even Curry didn't take advantage of it until then (his 4th season) - before that, Curry only took about 4 threes a game and scored less than prime Reggie Miller..

[LeCola]

Pure scoring refers to contested shot-making, which was more required without spacing.. It also refers to a sort of instinctual ability to use moves and get tough shots off.

Today's spacing still requires some pure scoring, but usually allows "flow points", aka layups or threes... the spacing simply doesn't require contested jumpshooting or instinct in traffic to get shots off

Previous eras were simply far superior pure scorers and contested shot-makers than today's flow points experts, which is why previous era scorers would think today's game is easy - a beginner format that provides wide lanes and automatic, hands-off penetration and movement

Curry, Durant, Lebron, Harden, Lillard, Doncic...

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The 3pt line was around for the entirety of MJ's career. Its nobody's fault but his own he couldn't take advantage of its 50% point bonus. But what it ultimately comes down to is Jordan lacked the high arcing jump shot necessary to dominate long range shooting ala Bird, Dirk, Chef. His jumper was too line drive.

Bird and Dirk were making one 3 pointer per game during their playoff peaks.

I would say the greatest mid range jump shooter ever is between Kawhi\Durant because their 7"3-7"5 lengths and athleticism to get into their spots. Kawhi had a playoff run of actually making tough shots in 2019, while Durant had it easy his whole life with oakland or humiliated himself in OKC. So, overall i think the answer is Kawhi.

[3ball]

Curry, Durant, Lebron, Harden, Lillard, Doncic...


According to NBA.com, 68% of Curry's threes are taken 4-6 feet from the closest defender ("open"), or 6+ feet away ("wide open"):

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201939/shots-dash/


So despite the occasional fancy pull-up, most of Curry's threes are open and also assisted - and this is true for the entire league because today's 3-point strategy spaces the court out and yields open threes

[tpols]

It wasn't just Jordan that didn't take advantage of threes

It was the entire league that didn't take advantage until Curry's 4th season, when the league strategy turned into a 3-point contest

So even Curry didn't take advantage of it until then (his 4th season) - before that, Curry only took about 4 threes a game and scored less than prime Reggie Miller..

Ultimately, you cant blame somebody for capitalizing on existing technology. That's evolution. Its especially egregious when said technology existed but past generations couldn't innovate on it. You don't get a cookie for not taking advantage of long range shooting. But again, Jordan couldn't take advantage of it anyways because he didn't have the high arcing jump shot necessary to excel at it. His jumper was too line drive.

[Axe]

Oh reggie miller is getting some good impressions again itt i see.

[LeCola]

According to NBA.com, 68% of Curry's threes are taken 4-6 feet from the closest defender ("open"), or 6+ feet away ("wide open"):

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201939/shots-dash/


So despite the occasional fancy pull-up, most of Curry's threes are open and also assisted - and this is true for the entire league because today's 3-point strategy spaces the court out and yields open threes

Dude, just check "CLOSEST DEFENDER SHOT > 10FT." on the link you shared. Then, compare it with the same table on Kobe's shots dash page.

[Bronbron23]

The 3pt line was around for the entirety of MJ's career. Its nobody's fault but his own he couldn't take advantage of its 50% point bonus. But what it ultimately comes down to is Jordan lacked the high arcing jump shot necessary to dominate long range shooting ala Bird, Dirk, Chef. His jumper was too line drive.

Nope good try though. It's simple math dude. As the league and teams changed and shot more threes so did the players. Let me try helping you understand. From 88 to 98 the league average for threes taken was around 10. Mj between that span average about 2 threes a game. During lebrons career teams have shot anywhere from 2 to 4 times more than that if when mj played. Brons first few years the league average was double that of mj's and no surprse bron shot twice as many threes as mj. The last 5 years teams have been shooting about 3 times as many threes than mj's days and no suprise lebron shoots 3 times more threes.

Oh and mj usually shot around 20% of his teams threes and guess what lebron usually shoots about 20% of his teams 3's.

If bron played in the 90's he'd shoot the same amount of threes as mj and steph would shoot around the same amount of threes as reggie.

You don't know what your talking about dude.

[HoopsNY]

A respectable three-point shooter of the modern era would be unheard-of great in 1992.The only thing that would keep Curry from averaging 30 would be the head coach that thought his shot selection was crazy. A single defender can not take away Curry, Harden, Iving, etc's air space while keep him from getting by them. That's why these players are great now and it would have transferred to any era. Yeah a 90s defender would be more physical than they're used to but on the flip side Joe Dumars never dealt with someone like Lillaird that can and will take a step inside the half court line and fire. I respect the old school but you can't chalk the evolution of the modern player exclusively up to rule changes.

Did guys like Lillard come into the league in 2012 shooting such shots consistently? The thing about this debate that's quite odd is that the concept of evolution remains as time goes on but is not undone in the reverse.

If we were to remain consistent, then surely guys like Price, Dumars, Miller, and T. Hardaway would develop their three point shooting in a similar scenario as today, no?

[Bronbron23]

Did guys like Lillard come into the league in 2012 shooting such shots consistently? The thing about this debate that's quite odd is that the concept of evolution remains as time goes on but is not undone in the reverse.

If we were to remain consistent, then surely guys like Price, Dumars, Miller, and T. Hardaway would develop their three point shooting in a similar fashion, no?

Yes of course they would. Dude is just being dumb. Reggie miller who was basically steph of the 90's shot almost half of his teams threes. Indiana and league in general were only shooting 9 or 10 3's a game and Reggie was shooting about half of them. Teams now are shooting 3 times that so if reggie and Indiana played now they obviously shoot more threes and Reggie would obviously shoot shoot more also. Naturally 3's being a bigger part of the team's offense players would work on it more also as you say.

[3ball]

Ultimately, you cant blame somebody for capitalizing on existing technology. That's evolution. Its especially egregious when said technology existed but past generations couldn't innovate on it. You don't get a cookie for not taking advantage of long range shooting. But again, Jordan couldn't take advantage of it anyways because he didn't have the high arcing jump shot necessary to excel at it. His jumper was too line drive.


It isn't technology though

It's an arbitrary line painted on the court that ultimately minimized pure scoring (basketball) in the NBA

[SATAN]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zV7T2TLSz4k


the last pure scorer?

I'm surprised the video acknowledged that pure scoring is dead in today's NBA

"Pure scoring" by a guy known for being a ball hog with HORRIBLE shot selection

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yes of course they would. Dude is just being dumb. Reggie miller who was basically steph of the 90's shot almost half of his teams threes. Indiana and league in general were only shooting 9 or 10 3's a game and Reggie was shooting about half of them. Teams now are shooting 3 times that so if reggie and Indiana played now they obviously shoot more threes and Reggie would obviously shoot shoot more also. Naturally 3's being a bigger part of the team's offense players would work on it more also as you say.
Where did I say players of the past would not develop differently if they came up in the modern era? Don't just make crap up and then argue with your own stupid thought as if it was mine. I am merely acknowledging the obvious reality, that the way players are playing today would make them major scoring threats back in yesteryear, which is how and why the game has been forced to change. The Nowitzki-Nash Mavs and Webber Kings started it, D-Antoni Suns improved upon it and then Curry's Warriors created a Dynasty with it and now we might have 18 players that could average 25+ whereas in the past there might be 8 guys tops in a strong year.

[Bronbron23]

"Pure scoring" by a guy known for being a ball hog with HORRIBLE shot selection

Not really. He could go off the rails sometimes and hog but for the most part he wasn't that bad. He only shot a a few less shots a game than bron even though kobe was a shooting gaurd and bron is basically a point gaurd.

As far as shot selection again he could get carried away once ans awhile but for the most part him and bron weren't that far off. Kobe played his prime durung the toughest defensive era ever. If you look at their efficiency during the 2000's lebron isn't that much better. Bron never got crazy efficient until after the 2000's decade.

[light]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zV7T2TLSz4k


the last pure scorer?

I'm surprised the video acknowledged that pure scoring is dead in today's NBA

that's not "pure scoring" that's bad basketball.

yeah that's why he's known as a black hole. unassisted jumpers. his teammates hated him for it and they lost a lot because of it.

[LAL]

Kobe's fire and hardwork from such a young age was remarkable. He was destined for success with that kind of focus mixed with his NBA pedigree. Rare combo, most NBA player's kids either don't have the talent or the drive to reach superstardom like that. Like Mike Tyson said about his own kids, they just aren't hungry enough. Kobe maximized his talents for his body type and the rules of his era (he had GOAT caliber all around BBIQ and ability IMO not just contested 2's) which is only what few players can ever say (usually the top few of any respective era). Last of the dominating 2 point physical defense era shooters and one of the best ever at it.

Since I like to highlight historic basketball footage I predict In the future some kids will watch his highlights and go "bad shots why didn't he just double-step back for an open 3 more / why is he attacking a crowded lane / why isn't he taking 3 giant eurostep strides more often?" - not knowing the double step backs / late gathers / among other things was a travel nor any of the other pressures that made Kobe correctly decide to attack the way he attacked. He played a game of inches where as today's game looks more like a game of yards.

Great post

[Bronbron23]

Where did I say players of the past would not develop differently if they came up in the modern era? Don't just make crap up and then argue with your own stupid thought as if it was mine. I am merely acknowledging the obvious reality, that the way players are playing today would make them major scoring threats back in yesteryear, which is how and why the game has been forced to change. The Nowitzki-Nash Mavs and Webber Kings started it, D-Antoni Suns improved upon it and then Curry's Warriors created a Dynasty with it and now we might have 18 players that could average 25+ whereas in the past there might be 8 guys tops in a strong year.

Well the rockets picked up where D'Antoni suns left off and then the warriors and everyone else followed but i agree warriors did it better.

As far as guys likw curry and dame playing in the 90's they dont still score 25 plus a game. Not because they're not good enough but the game wasn't played the way it is now. They wouldn't get the chance to shoot 10 plus threes a game. They'd shoot around 5 like every other great 3 point shooter back then. That automatically takes 2-3 pts away right there. There was way less possessions in previous era's so that's another 1-2 points gone. Defense was tougher and more physical so that's another couple points gone.

Sure if they went back knowing what we know now they could go back and come close to doing what they're doing now but that's not how it works.