Who has been the best player this season?

[Taurus]

Jokic is pretty much guaranteed to win MVP at this point. But who do you guys think has been the best player this season?

[Bronbron23]

Jokic is pretty much guaranteed to win MVP at this point. But who do you guys think has been the best player this season?

Greek or jokic have been the best but bron is still the best player in the league

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I would say for best seasons it's between Kawhi\Embiid\Gobert. That doesn't mean they are the three best playoff performers (although Kawhi is) but just based on their regular seasons.

ON\Off this season:

Kawhi +12.9

Giannis +7.3

Jokic +5.4

Embiid +12.4

Gobert +17.7

[Axe]

Gobert? Lmao.

[NugzFan]

I would say for best seasons it's between Kawhi\Embiid\Gobert. That doesn't mean they are the three best playoff performers (although Kawhi is) but just based on their regular seasons.

ON\Off this season:

Kawhi +12.9

Giannis +7.3

Jokic +5.4

Embiid +12.4

Gobert +17.7

I love how you simply pick the stat that supports your opinion the best

[DABIGSALSISHA]

CP3 or BOOKER, pick one , SUNS RISING FROM THE ASHES.

Impressive to my eyes to say the least.

[TAZORAC]

Curry, but his team isn't doing that great.

Embid is next.

[8Ball]

Joker.

Larry Bird 2.0

[ShawkFactory]

I would say for best seasons it's between Kawhi\Embiid\Gobert. That doesn't mean they are the three best playoff performers (although Kawhi is) but just based on their regular seasons.

ON\Off this season:

Kawhi +12.9

Giannis +7.3

Jokic +5.4

Embiid +12.4

Gobert +17.7

If this is the stat you choose to base to entirety of your argument on, then why would Kawhi have anything close to an argument over Gobert? Not only is he blowing Kawhi away in this metric..he's also played almost 400 more minutes. More time for these types of numbers to normalize but he's still killing.

[FultzNationRISE]

Lebron and it isnt close.

[hateraid]

Healthy Embiid hands down.

[dankok8]

Honestly Jokic... He's been the best player and my pick for MVP.

[DABIGSALSISHA]

Honestly Jokic... He's been the best player and my pick for MVP.

I agree!

[fsvr54]

Jokic

Embiid

[HBK_Kliq_2]

If this is the stat you choose to base to entirety of your argument on, then why would Kawhi have anything close to an argument over Gobert? Not only is he blowing Kawhi away in this metric..he's also played almost 400 more minutes. More time for these types of numbers to normalize but he's still killing.

Kawhi has a worse supporting cast. Gobert has two allstar level players in Conley\Mitchell.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I love how you simply pick the stat that supports your opinion the best

Jokic's on\off should be a lot higher if he was the real MVP. Sounds more like a fake mvp based on fancy stats like 17 westbrook.

[ShawkFactory]

Kawhi has a worse supporting cast. Gobert has two allstar level players in Conley\Mitchell.

Kawhi has a much better supporting cast than Jokic.

[Manny98]

Nikka said Gobert :roll::roll::roll:

[tontoz]

Kawhi has a much better supporting cast than Jokic.

He cherry picks stats and doesn't always check them before posting. He was trying to discredit Curry the other day and brought up VORP, saying Draymond ranked higher than Curry in all the advanced stats.

Problem was that Curry is 3rd in VORP this season. Jokic is first by a wide margin.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::vorp

[ShawkFactory]

He cherry picks stats and doesn't always check them before posting. He was trying to discredit Curry the other day and brought up VORP, saying Draymond ranked higher than Curry in all the advanced stats.

Problem was that Curry is 3rd in VORP this season. Jokic is first by a wide margin.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::vorp

It's also funny that he used the fact that Gobert's supporting cast is better (VERY debatable) in the on/off argument, seemingly not realizing that supporting cast doesn't matter in on/off? If anything, having a higher on/off split with a supposedly better supporting cast is MORE impressive. Or means that the supporting cast isn't actually better. Pick your poison.

[Phoenix]

I would say for best seasons it's between Kawhi\Embiid\Gobert. That doesn't mean they are the three best playoff performers (although Kawhi is) but just based on their regular seasons.

ON\Off this season:

Kawhi +12.9

Giannis +7.3

Jokic +5.4

Embiid +12.4

Gobert +17.7

Gobert isn't having a better season than Joker and Embiid. Are you serious with this shit?

Kawhi isn't even top 5 this year, nor will he be first team forward, so.........no.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He cherry picks stats and doesn't always check them before posting. He was trying to discredit Curry the other day and brought up VORP, saying Draymond ranked higher than Curry in all the advanced stats.

Problem was that Curry is 3rd in VORP this season. Jokic is first by a wide margin.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_advanced.html#advanced_stats::vorp

I never brought up regular season VORP with curry, I criticized his playoff resume.

For the record, draymond green has a better on/off then curry this season and that includes offense.

[tontoz]

I never brought up regular season VORP with curry, I criticized his playoff resume.

For the record, draymond green has a better on/off then curry this season and that includes offense.


So VORP only matters in the post season? I guess i can understand why you would feel that way since Curry is so far ahead of Kawhi.

:roll:

What is your take on Jokic leading the league in VORP by a mile?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

It's also funny that he used the fact that Gobert's supporting cast is better (VERY debatable) in the on/off argument, seemingly not realizing that supporting cast doesn't matter in on/off? If anything, having a higher on/off split with a supposedly better supporting cast is MORE impressive. Or means that the supporting cast isn't actually better. Pick your poison.

Mike Conley has had a star season and so has Mitchell but they are able to thrive because Gobert's defense, so Gobert is the one who deserves the most credit for their success.

[ArbitraryWater]

HBK Klit sinking the IQ levels in this thread

[HBK_Kliq_2]

So VORP only matters in the post season? I guess i can understand why you would feel that way since Curry is so far ahead of Kawhi.

:roll:

What is your take on Jokic leading the league in VORP by a mile?

I value playoffs like 5x more then regular season, so yes.

Curry is having a great season but he's not as important to the team as Draymond Green, the on\off displays that.

[ShawkFactory]

Mike Conley has had a star season and so has Mitchell but they are able to thrive because Gobert's defense, so Gobert is the one who deserves the most credit for their success.

And because of his on/off, has undoubtedly been better than Kawhi

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has a much better supporting cast than Jokic.

Murray = George

Porter > anybody else on clippers

[HBK_Kliq_2]

And because of his on/off, has undoubtedly been better than Kawhi

It gives him an argument that he has had a better regular season then Kawhi, sure. When looking at the context, you give the edge to Kawhi due to worse teammates.

[999Guy]

Clearly Jokic. Kawhi and Embiid had a few weeks each of playing close to his level, and maybe even a little better but it didn’t last at all.

Kawhi fell off hard. Embiid slightly. Jokic is playing the best ball of his life, every night.


He’s just too good when he’s in mental and physical shape unlike this. Started off last night with 4 dunks in the first quarter...3 in halfcourt. All bc he allegedly hates Gibson and the front court.

He’s been a killer all year. He should really win unanimously IMO. Nobody is close this year.

BTW, Better MVP than: Durant, Giannis, Westbrook, Barkley, Dirk, Kobe, Malone, Nash.

He’s a top MVP of the past two eras. Easily a top 10 MVP year. Of the past 30.

[tontoz]

I value playoffs like 5x more then regular season, so yes.

Curry is having a great season but he's not as important to the team as Draymond Green, the on\off displays that.


So on/off matters in the regular season but VORP doesn't?

:facepalm

Curry VORP 5.1
Draymond VORP 1.4

[ShawkFactory]

Murray = George

Porter > anybody else on clippers

Nuggets are 10-2 without Murray.

As ridiculous as Murray = George is. But I won't even get in to that.

Nor will I get in to the enormous disparity in depth.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Gobert isn't having a better season than Joker and Embiid. Are you serious with this shit?

Kawhi isn't even top 5 this year, nor will he be first team forward, so.........no.

Gobert has durability over Embiid, Gobert also triples jokic's on\off. Sounds like he's better to me.

Kawhi is averaging 25PPG on 52\40\88 splits and his team has a 124 offensive rating when he's on the court, anybody who doesn't think he's top 5 is a clueless idiot who should give up basketball.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

So on/off matters in the regular season but VORP doesn't?

:facepalm

Curry VORP 5.1
Draymond VORP 1.4

You have to lead in BOTH, to show me you're a clear MVP candidate. You know, like how Kawhi does?

[Phoenix]

So VORP only matters in the post season? I guess i can understand why you would feel that way since Curry is so far ahead of Kawhi.

:roll:

What is your take on Jokic leading the league in VORP by a mile?

I've seen that clown use VORP numerous times if it happens to favor Kawhit. When it doesn't....... 'other' things are suddenly more important.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nuggets are 10-2 without Murray.

As ridiculous as Murray = George is. But I won't even get in to that.

Nor will I get in to the enormous disparity in depth.

I can't take you seriously as an MVP when your team gets +7.1 better without you defensively.

[tontoz]

You have to lead in BOTH, to show me you're a clear MVP candidate. You know, like how Kawhi does?

Kawhi VORP 3.6
Curry VORP 5.1

[Phoenix]

Gobert has durability over Embiid, Gobert also triples jokic's on\off. Sounds like he's better to me.

Kawhi is averaging 25PPG on 52\40\88 splits and his team has a 124 offensive rating when he's on the court, anybody who doesn't think he's top 5 is a clueless idiot who should give up basketball.

Despite all of that, he won't end up on the first team this year. Where does it hurt?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

HBK Klit sinking the IQ levels in this thread

Go forfeit your 6th seed and fall into the play in tournament just to avoid kawhi tonight you coward piece of shit.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi VORP 3.6
Curry VORP 5.1

He leads his team in VORP and on/off.

You don't, you always have to get carried by papa draymond. It has been that way since 2015.

[Phoenix]

Go forfeit your 6th seed and fall into the play in tournament just to avoid kawhi tonight you coward piece of shit.

So when the Clippers fail to win the chip this year....again....can we count on you to leave the board till next season? We all know your word is golden.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Despite all of that, he won't end up on the first team this year. Where does it hurt?

Could care less. I want finals mvps

[Phoenix]

He leads his team in VORP and on/off.

You don't, you always have to get carried by papa draymond. It has been that way since 2015.

Golden State Warriors 2019-20: 15-50
Draymond Green: 43 games, 39% 8/6/6 12.5 PER, 49% TS

Yes, clearly Draymond is the engine behind the whole thing.

[Phoenix]

Could care less. I want finals mvps

He won't get that either so....

[HBK_Kliq_2]

So when the Clippers fail to win the chip this year....again....can we count on you to leave the board till next season? We all know your word is golden.

They will not fall this season, I guarantee it. Last time I was only wrong cause kawhi didn't like living in a prison bubble and it gave George depression.

You're still a bitch for giving up on your team and letting them drop to the play in tournament all because you're scared of kawhi

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Golden State Warriors 2019-20: 15-50
Draymond Green: 43 games, 39% 8/6/6 12.5 PER, 49% TS

Yes, clearly Draymond is the engine behind the whole thing.

That's why you have to watch the games and look at their on/off.

PPG doesn't tell it all, Mitchell isn't more valuable then gobert this season either

[Phoenix]

They will not fall this season, I guarantee it. Last time I was only wrong cause kawhi didn't like living in a prison bubble and it gave George depression.

You're still a bitch for giving up on your team and letting them drop to the play in tournament all because you're scared of kawhi

'My team'? That's interesting, thanks for letting me know I have one.

[Proctor]

Jokic and Curry

[Phoenix]

That's why you have to watch the games and look at their on/off.

PPG doesn't tell it all, Mitchell isn't more valuable then gobert this season either

Nobody dropping Draymonds numbers last year is a net positive, champ.

[ShawkFactory]

I can't take you seriously as an MVP when your team gets +7.1 better without you defensively.

Well he's going to be a near-unanimous MVP. So enjoy your +/-

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Well he's going to be a near-unanimous MVP. So enjoy your +/-

A westbrook lite MVP, who cares.

[tontoz]

Golden State Warriors 2019-20: 15-50
Draymond Green: 43 games, 39% 8/6/6 12.5 PER, 49% TS

Yes, clearly Draymond is the engine behind the whole thing.


Seriously we've seen that team without Curry. It's ugly. They are 1-7 without him this season.

Funny that he is lobbying so hard for Kawhi to be the MVP but on the other hand he say the regular season is insignificant. The playoffs are 5x more important.

I don't think he realizes the MVP is a regular season award.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nobody dropping Draymonds numbers last year is a net positive, champ.

Draymond was the VORP leader in 2016, RAPTOR leader in 2015\16, now he's the on\off leader this season. Curry is the sidekick, the sooner you understand that the better off you'll be.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Seriously we've seen that team without Curry. It's ugly. They are 1-7 without him this season.

Funny that he is lobbying so hard for Kawhi to be the MVP but on the other hand he say the regular season is insignificant. The playoffs are 5x more important.

I don't think he realizes the MVP is a regular season award.

How many of those games were Draymond not playing as well??

I'm not lobbying for Kawhi to be MVP, i just think he is the best player this season.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/


Overall RAPTOR this season:

1) Jokic
2) Embiid
3) Kawhi
4) Gobert

That's roughly who i said the mvp was, i just take points off Jokic due to his poor defense and poor on\off.

[Phoenix]

Draymond was the VORP leader in 2016, RAPTOR leader in 2015\16, now he's the on\off leader this season. Curry is the sidekick, the sooner you understand that the better off you'll be.

What does 2016 have to do with what Draymond produced last year when Steph missed basically the entire season? The sooner you understand that Draymond is a complimentary player whose entire game opens up by Steph being on the floor, not the other way around.... the better off you'll be. Dude was literally one of the worst starters in the league last year.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

What does 2016 have to do with what Draymond produced last year when Steph missed basically the entire season? The sooner you understand that Draymond is a complimentary player whose entire game opens up by Steph being on the floor, not the other way around.... the better off you'll be. Dude was literally one of the worst starters in the league last year.

Put Curry on the warriors last season and take away Draymond, the team would be just as bad if not worse. Draymond is the primary ball handler, primary playmaker, defensive anchor and Curry wouldn't be anything without him. Nobody even knew who Curry was before Draymond was drafted. Since 2015, Draymond has owned Curry in playoff advanced stats.

[Phoenix]

Also, since you're bringing up VORP is there any reason you didn't state post the playoff numbers for 2015, 2017, 2018 and 2019? :yaohappy:

[AirBonner]

How many players have scored 60pts this season besides Tatum?

[ShawkFactory]

A westbrook lite MVP, who cares.

They're 3rd in a very strong west and 10-2 without the supposed Paul George equal.

8th highest BPM of all time.

Highest WS/48 since 16 Curry. Putting up 28/11/9 on just 28% usage.

Ho hum. Enjoy not caring about one of the most impressive players in a minute.

[Phoenix]

Put Curry on the warriors last season and take away Draymond, the team would be just as bad if not worse. Draymond is the primary ball handler, primary playmaker, defensive anchor and Curry wouldn't be anything without him. Nobody even knew who Curry was before Draymond was drafted. Since 2015, Draymond has owned Curry in playoff advanced stats.

So you're saying the lottery pick was the unknown prospect, so what's the guy picked in the 2nd round? :yaohappy:

There are some entertaining trolls on this board. You aren't one of them.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Also, since you're bringing up VORP is there any reason you didn't state post the playoff numbers for 2017, 2018 and 2019? :yaohappy:

RAPTOR has their own version of that called "WAR" instead of VORP.

2019 playoffs WAR:

Draymond - 4.6
Curry - 4.3

2019 playoffs ON\OFF:

Draymond - 13.0
Curry - 5.9

Look at that on\off hahahaha. Every time Durant isn't around, Curry turns to PAPA Dray.

2018 playoffs WAR:

Draymond - 4.7

Durant - 4.6

Curry - 3.1

3rd fiddle hahahha

2018 playoffs On\off

Draymond - 9.1

Curry - 5.5

2017 playoffs is the only time when Curry beat Draymond in WAR but he still lost to Draymond in On\off.

It's actually quite embarrassing for Curry, Draymond has showed him up in the playoffs every single year. You thought i was just making shit up? delete your account now or go apologize to Draymond on his instagram.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

So you're saying the lottery pick was the unknown prospect, so what's the guy picked in the 2nd round? :yaohappy:

There are some entertaining trolls on this board. You aren't one of them.

Warriors were a joke until Draymond became apart of the rotation in 2014.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

They're 3rd in a very strong west and 10-2 without the supposed Paul George equal.

8th highest BPM of all time.

Highest WS/48 since 16 Curry. Putting up 28/11/9 on just 28% usage.

Ho hum. Enjoy not caring about one of the most impressive players in a minute.

It's easy to put up those numbers when you rest and don't do anything on defense though, don't you think?

+7.1 better defensively when Jokic is on bench.

[Phoenix]

RAPTOR has their own version of that called "WAR" instead of VORP.

2019 playoffs WAR:

Draymond - 4.6
Curry - 4.3

2019 playoffs ON\OFF:

Draymond - 13.0
Curry - 5.9

Look at that on\off hahahaha. Every time Durant isn't around, Curry turns to PAPA Dray.

2018 playoffs WAR:

Draymond - 4.7

Durant - 4.6

Curry - 3.1

3rd fiddle hahahha

2018 playoffs On\off

Draymond - 9.1

Curry - 5.5

2017 playoffs is the only time when Curry beat Draymond in WAR but he still lost to Draymond in On\off.

It's actually quite embarrassing for Curry, Draymond has showed him up in the playoffs every single year. You thought i was just making shit up? delete your account now or go apologize to Draymond on his instagram.

Ah so when VORP doesn't favor your argument you resort to moving the goalposts again. You're not very subtle.

Draymond 2020: 8/6/6 39%. We've seen him without Steph. Barely NBA player worthy.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Ah so when VORP doesn't favor your argument you resort to moving the goalposts again. You're not very subtle.

Draymond 2020: 8/6/6 39%. We've seen him without Steph. Barely NBA player worthy.

Their #1 season without Durant was in 2016. Draymond led them in VORP that year if you're really stuck on VORP.

Mark Jackson was just wasting Draymond and he was using Curry as a more traditional point guard. Kerr was able to develop Draymond and turn him into a Scottie Pippen type player, while also using Curry as more of an offball Reggie Miller lite player. That was the key to their success.

If Pippen\Reggie Miller were on the same in the 1990s, i would refer to Pippen as the best player as well. That's just me, not hating on Curry or anything.

[Phoenix]

Warriors were a joke until Draymond became apart of the rotation in 2014.

They were 51-31 in 2014 with Dray being a bench player doing 6/5/4 41% in 21 minutes a night. Steph was 24/9/4 47%.

The year before that, 47-35 and 2nd round with Dray in his rookie year off the bench doing 3/1/3 on 32% in 13 minutes a night.

[Phoenix]

Their #1 season without Durant was in 2016. Draymond led them in VORP that year if you're really stuck on VORP.

Mark Jackson was just wasting Draymond and he was using Curry as a more traditional point guard. Kerr was able to develop Draymond and turn him into a Scottie Pippen type player, while also using Curry as more of an offball Reggie Miller lite player. That was the key to their success.

If Pippen\Reggie Miller were on the same in the 1990s, i would refer to Pippen as the best player as well. That's just me, not hating on Curry or anything.

Nice try. I don't give a shit about VORP LMAO. I'm only brought it up because that was YOUR argument. But when the stats show that Draymond only had the higher VORP in one season, all of a sudden WAR is the argument you want to roll with. Not even good trolling, as I said before. For the record I'm humoring you. Your claim to fame is being voted the #1 Jizzrag of 2020 on ISH, and on a forum with this many loons that's quite the achievement.

[NugzFan]

Healthy Embiid hands down.

That’s not even a real thing

[Doranku]

Jokic and it's not really close.

[ShawkFactory]

It's easy to put up those numbers when you rest and don't do anything on defense though, don't you think?

+7.1 better defensively when Jokic is on bench.

I bet you weren’t aware that Jokic has literally defended more pick and rolls than any player in the association.

You see your +7.1 and don’t see the game.

Jokic is transcendent. Like Bird