Ben Simmons has shown no improvements offensively since his rookie year

[1987_Lakers]

What's up with that? I remember years back people telling me he will have a better career than Tatum (Something I disagreed with) and here we are like 3 years later and Simmons is still pretty much the same player offensively that he was when he came into the NBA.

[beasted]

What's up with that? I remember years back people telling me he will have a better career than Tatum (Something I disagreed with) and here we are like 3 years later and Simmons is still pretty much the same player offensively that he was when he came into the NBA.

He is a necessary piece of the defensive system and is able to make plays on that end along with his passing. He definitely helps the team win, no doubt, but I totally agree he hasn't moved the needle much offensively since being drafted.

[beasted]

All that to say, definitely not a perennial all-star like Philly hoped they'd be tanking for. Just a very good player.

[hateraid]

What's up with that? I remember years back people telling me he will have a better career than Tatum (Something I disagreed with) and here we are like 3 years later and Simmons is still pretty much the same player offensively that he was when he came into the NBA.

Does he need to? What other aspects of the offensive game is there to gauge you think?
As for being better offensively than Tatum I don't think it was really a hot debate. Simmons was scouted as the next Magic or Lebron. Which if we analyze it was more due to being tall with PG skills. Not an offensive powerhouse. So he's pretty much lived up to that billing and has shown improvement. So really not an outstanding assesment here.

[hateraid]

All that to say, definitely not a perennial all-star like Philly hoped they'd be tanking for. Just a very good player.

Why? Because he can't shoot 3's? Is that what seperates a really good player to a great player?
I'd rather have a defensive anchor who can also run the floor over a Duncan Robinson

[1987_Lakers]

Does he need to? What other aspects of the offensive game is there to gauge

Developing a respectable jumper would be nice, we have all heard since his rookie year "wait until he develops a jumper". Seems like that ship has sailed to be honest.

[miggyme1]

Give him some time. It took kidd a decade to become a “shooter”. I think he will be fine

[tontoz]

Give him some time. It took kidd a decade to become a “shooter”. I think he will be fine

Kidd shot 37% from 3 in his 3rd season on 3 attempts per game. Not a good comp.

Having said that why does Simmons have to shoot jumpers? I would rather see him not shoot at all than shoot them poorly. Does the name Josh Smith ring a bell?

Simmons shoots 60% from the foul line. Some guys just aren't shooters. He does enough other things very well to make him an effective player without a jumper.

[tpols]

Give him some time. It took kidd a decade to become a “shooter”. I think he will be fine

Jason Kidd was like the 3rd all time leader in 3pt makes when he retired. Ben Simmons makes him look like Ray Allen.

[sixerfan82]

cool story bruh

[beasted]

Why? Because he can't shoot 3's? Is that what seperates a really good player to a great player?
I'd rather have a defensive anchor who can also run the floor over a Duncan Robinson

Duncan Robinson wasn't drafted first overall, nor does he make the max.

Simmons clearly is a very good player who adds much more value than Robinson, but isn't that "lock" all-star type player despite making it these last 3 years. Simmons is a very good but not "great" player who you'd hope years of tanking would deliver to a franchise. The fact that a 24yr old is so easily discussed in trade scenarios says it all.

None of this is to say he's not a guy plenty of teams would want, it's just to say his criticism is WELL deserved given the expectations, current salary and lack of offensive progress.

[rawimpact]

One of the worst 2nd options in history

He is like Blake Griffin. Very one dimensional, no will to improve despite constant claims of 'off season improvements'

The mans numbers are worse this year than rookie season, so not just no improvement but digression.

[tontoz]

One of the worst 2nd options in history

He is like Blake Griffin. Very one dimensional, no will to improve despite constant claims of 'off season improvements'

The mans numbers are worse this year than rookie season, so not just no improvement but digression.



You do realize that Ben isn't their 2nd option on offense, right?

[beasted]

Developing a respectable jumper would be nice, we have all heard since his rookie year "wait until he develops a jumper". Seems like that ship has sailed to be honest.

I agree again. Jimmy Butler can't shoot 3s either, and doesn't even take a lot of mid range shots. He's just a much smarter, much more aggressive offensive player, and he can make FTs. Those are the only differences.

What's worse is comparing the athletic profile of the two says that Simmons would be much more effective than Butler if he had his mindset and FT ability.

[rawimpact]

You do realize that Ben isn't their 2nd option on offense, right?

Yes, because he never has been good offensively like he was marketed as.
This was suppose to be a Embiid-Simmons led team which never blossomed to because one of them never improved.
Tobias doing work filling in the gap

[tontoz]

It is also noteworthy that some of the "decline" in Ben's production is due to playing fewer minutes in this condensed season. Per 36 minutes he is averaging 16 pts compared to 16.7 last season.

They are 8 ppg better with him on the floor so he must be doing something right.

http://www.82games.com/2021/20PHI4.HTM#onoff

[RRR3]

It is also noteworthy that some of the "decline" in Ben's production is due to playing fewer minutes in this condensed season. Per 36 minutes he is averaging 16 pts compared to 16.7 last season.

They are 8 ppg better with him on the floor so he must be doing something right.

http://www.82games.com/2021/20PHI4.HTM#onoff
Well he must have been doing something wrong the previous two years if we’re going by on/off.

[tontoz]

Well he must have been doing something wrong the previous two years if we’re going by on/off.


Or maybe he has improved in ways that don't show up in the box score. More likely he fits in better with the rest of the team.

If the team lacks shooting then Simmons lack of a jumper becomes a bigger problem. When Morey took the job the first thing he did was bring in shooters, most notably Curry and Green.

[rawimpact]

It is also noteworthy that some of the "decline" in Ben's production is due to playing fewer minutes in this condensed season. Per 36 minutes he is averaging 16 pts compared to 16.7 last season.

They are 8 ppg better with him on the floor so he must be doing something right.

http://www.82games.com/2021/20PHI4.HTM#onoff

But his field goal percentage has also dropped from .58 to .56

He's averaging a minute less than his rookie season and just about all his numbers are down from then, points, blocks, assists, steals, rebounds


Every year we get this

2016: Jerryd Bayless Working With Ben Simmons on His Jump Shot (Source: https://thesixersense.com/2017/04/20/philadelphia-76ers-jerryd-bayless-working-ben-simmons-jump-shot/)

2017: Ben Simmons working on his jump shot, which is good news for Sixers (Source: https://www.phillyvoice.com/ben-simmons-working-his-jump-shot-which-good-news-sixers-roster/)

2018: 76ers star Ben Simmons says improving jump shot has been main focus of his offseason training (Source: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-star-ben-simmons-says-improving-jump-shot-has-been-main-focus-of-his-offseason-training/)

2019: Sixers’ Ben Simmons impresses Brett Brown with offseason work on outside shooting (Source: https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/philadelphia-sixers-76ers-ben-simmons-chris-johnson-brett-brown-jimmy-butler-tobias-harris-nba-lebron-james-20190926.html)

2020: Sixers’ Ben Simmons working on jump shot with Sam Cassell (Source:https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-ben-simmons-working-on-jump-shot-with-sam-cassell/)


2016: 55% fg
2021: 56% fg

[fourkicks44]

Ahhh you guys.

He has improved the most important thing off all.

What was the one criticism that everyone had that was bigger the his 3 point shooting?

"He doesn't fit with Embiid".

This season has clearly shown they can fit and flourish. They know each others game so well now. Both getting post touches and being in the perfect positions when others have the ball. I think Doc deserves some credit for this also.

That is why Ben's numbers aren't considerably better and Embiid's are up (someone show us Ben's post up numbers). Both have openly said their relationship on and off the court has reached a new level.

On top of that they are both allowing the rest of the team to flourish around them.

Looks like Ben and Joel can succeed on court together. Now it is time to get it down in the playoffs and prove the haters wrong.

Number 1 seed, baby.

[tontoz]

Looks to me like the decline in his FG% has nothing to do with jumper accuracy. Probably has to do with a few more attempts. Also his finishing at the rim is slightly lower than past seasons.

He has taken 38 shots from 10-16 feet this year shooting 36.8%. He is 3-10 from 3. Small samples obviously but career highs in percentage.

[Mask the Embiid]

3x all star.... tell tatum and your favorite player to catch up...catch-up...ketchup

[Im so nba'd out]

3x all star.... tell tatum and your favorite player to catch up...catch-up...ketchup

https://i.postimg.cc/XqxLYKRd/JLq-jv.gif

[hateraid]

Duncan Robinson wasn't drafted first overall, nor does he make the max.

Simmons clearly is a very good player who adds much more value than Robinson, but isn't that "lock" all-star type player despite making it these last 3 years. Simmons is a very good but not "great" player who you'd hope years of tanking would deliver to a franchise. The fact that a 24yr old is so easily discussed in trade scenarios says it all.

None of this is to say he's not a guy plenty of teams would want, it's just to say his criticism is WELL deserved given the expectations, current salary and lack of offensive progress.

He's a beast in the open court with great vision, can finish well, and is an elite defender....he's still young and improving those aspects. I say he's severely underrated, because like every new age fan are too focused on shooting to appreciate the other intangibles

[hateraid]

Ahhh you guys.

He has improved the most important thing off all.

What was the one criticism that everyone had that was bigger the his 3 point shooting?

"He doesn't fit with Embiid".

This season has clearly shown they can fit and flourish. They know each others game so well now. Both getting post touches and being in the perfect positions when others have the ball. I think Doc deserves some credit for this also.

That is why Ben's numbers aren't considerably better and Embiid's are up (someone show us Ben's post up numbers). Both have openly said their relationship on and off the court has reached a new level.

On top of that they are both allowing the rest of the team to flourish around them.

Looks like Ben and Joel can succeed on court together. Now it is time to get it down in the playoffs and prove the haters wrong.

Number 1 seed, baby.

Not to mention the fact their record reflects when they are on the court TOGETHER
A big reason the Sixers were bounced first round was no Simmons to QB the team and to play hardcore D. That's the type of impact he does have

[90sgoat]

He wasn't a winner in college.

It was a red flag, everyone knew it.

If you can't win in college, you're not a big time player.

[Kblaze8855]

All that to say, definitely not a perennial all-star like Philly hoped they'd be tanking for. Just a very good player.

So he’s definitely not what he in fact already is?

Hes a 24 year old 3 time all star. Scorer and all star aren’t the same thing.

[2much_knowledge]

He just figured out what kind of player he is and hes focused on playing to his strengths. Defense and playmaking

[hateraid]

Duncan Robinson wasn't drafted first overall, nor does he make the max.

Simmons clearly is a very good player who adds much more value than Robinson, but isn't that "lock" all-star type player despite making it these last 3 years. Simmons is a very good but not "great" player who you'd hope years of tanking would deliver to a franchise. The fact that a 24yr old is so easily discussed in trade scenarios says it all.

None of this is to say he's not a guy plenty of teams would want, it's just to say his criticism is WELL deserved given the expectations, current salary and lack of offensive progress.

So if we're gonna compare like to like and take into account shooting...who would you rather take Ben Simmons or Coby White/ D'Angelo Russell/ Lonzo Ball
All those players were drafted same position but particularly for shooting. They all have potential to be better offensively. Pick one for your team moving forward.

[beasted]

So if we're gonna compare like to like and take into account shooting...who would you rather take Ben Simmons or Coby White/ D'Angelo Russell/ Lonzo Ball
All those players were drafted same position but particularly for shooting. They all have potential to be better offensively. Pick one for your team moving forward.
You're comparing a 1st overall to non 1st.

You're also comparing guys who don't make the max.

You're also replying as though I've said that he's not a good player or doesn't help his team. I've clearly stated the opposite.

But there's nobody that can convince me heavy criticism of his offense is not warranted, and that this is literally the player everyone thought was his max potential and that he was supposed to be by year 5+. Nobody tanks half a decade for a weaker scoring Pippen.

[AirBonner]

Guard everyone else and dare Simmons to shoot. Celtics whooped the sixers doing this.

[hateraid]

Guard everyone else and dare Simmons to shoot. Celtics whooped the sixers doing this.

We lost because Brad outcoached Brett. Series was literally won on genius last minute Stevens decusions

[hateraid]

You're comparing a 1st overall to non 1st.

You're also comparing guys who don't make the max.

You're also replying as though I've said that he's not a good player or doesn't help his team. I've clearly stated the opposite.

But there's nobody that can convince me heavy criticism of his offense is not warranted, and that this is literally the player everyone thought was his max potential and that he was supposed to be by year 5+. Nobody tanks half a decade for a weaker scoring Pippen.

But you did say he's only good and not deserving of AS status. He is. And will be for a long one.

[LAL]

But you did say he's only good and not deserving of AS status. He is. And will be for a long one.

What in the **** are you and your buddies doing. Dude hasn't improved his jumper yet. That's important and a big time flaw, (epecially for a 1 pick, 3x all star) If they win a ring, or a couple finals trips in a row, we might understand. For now, the topic is about not showing improvements offensively or the need for extra balls to shoot a 15 foot jumper. Its not about the thigs we know he's good at.

Season looks good for phily but humble yourself.

[LAL]

You do realize that Ben isn't their 2nd option on offense, right?

Because he can't shoot

[iamgine]

Yeah it is indeed baffling that with all the best shooting coaches in the world, some players just doesn't improve. Even his FT shooting is still the same. After 4 years.

I trained my shooting for one summer and I could drain open jumpers in the game. Isn't draining open jumpers all that's being asked of him? To shoot a couple of Bruce Bowen left alone by the defense corner 3s type of shots? Doesn't seem like too much to ask.

[ImKobe]

I'm not surprised at all, have heard plenty of stories about him being lazy/not working on his offensive game over the years. Sixers would be contending for titles if he took the game seriously.

[fourkicks44]

You're comparing a 1st overall to non 1st.

You're also comparing guys who don't make the max.

You're also replying as though I've said that he's not a good player or doesn't help his team. I've clearly stated the opposite.

But there's nobody that can convince me heavy criticism of his offense is not warranted, and that this is literally the player everyone thought was his max potential and that he was supposed to be by year 5+. Nobody tanks half a decade for a weaker scoring Pippen.

The team was tanking for only three years, and out of that they now have Embiid and Simmons.

One is an MVP candidate and the other is a DPOY candidate. Their team is a number one seed.

Btw Simmons is the third highest paid player on his team



Not sure why all the older posters aren't all over Simmons TBH. He doesn't jack up those hated 3 point shots that are ruining the game, his most prominent offense is from dunks and hookshots and plays tough relentless defence like the good ol days as much as the rules will allow him.

Hmm something makes me think some pro Ingraham agendas maybe have something to do with the shade being thrown Ben's way.

[LeCola]

He has potential to win MVP award but it won't happen if he continues to play with Embiid.

He just needs a team that he can play PG/C on offence and SF/PF on defence. Maybe like this:

Bogdan(1+ovic)
Middleton
Bridges
Porzingis
Simmons

[dirkdiggler41]

You can protect him all you want, but he has not improved at all when you look at what his faults are. I understand that not everybody got superpotential, but when you start out on his level, getting a lot of minutes and not able to improve you are just lazy. Just look at Lonzo Ball. He did not improve a lot, but he certainly was able to fix his obvious shooting problem.

[beasted]

But you did say he's only good and not deserving of AS status. He is. And will be for a long one.

Not what I said. I said I didn't think he was perennial all-star status who'll be a lock every year.

He definitely won't be making any if the team ever falls into that 5-8 playoff seed range with his current statline. Only Embiid will.

[LAL]

Not what I said. I said I didn't think he was perennial all-star status who'll be a lock every year.

He definitely won't be making any if the team ever falls into that 5-8 playoff seed range with his current statline. Only Embiid will.

I think he should give those all star selections to Phily's second option, whoever tf that is.

[Kblaze8855]

You can protect him all you want, but he has not improved at all when you look at what his faults are. I understand that not everybody got superpotential, but when you start out on his level, getting a lot of minutes and not able to improve you are just lazy. Just look at Lonzo Ball. He did not improve a lot, but he certainly was able to fix his obvious shooting problem.


Protect him from who? Facebook comment section full of people who barely follow the game?

Ben doesnt need protecting. He’s good at virtually everything that the game asks other than the one thing casual fans care about.

I don’t think anyone of any consequence thinks he’s not good because people on the internet don’t.

You’ll lose just as quick in the playoffs not being able to play D as you will not being able to shoot. He can defend his ass off, rebound, start the offense, and seems to have meshed well with his teammates finally.

He’s just not what fans will ever value. But the same fans will turn around and call Melo a loser for being the exact opposite.

In the end....you just need to be the best version of you. Melo is a hall of famer. Given 6-8 more years Ben might be borderline too. If you’re a 3 time all star in 4 years you’re likely on the path to a great career if healthy.

People just don’t accept defenders and total players not becoming scorers but rarely get on scorers for not becoming good defenders. And many scorers have the physical talent but just don’t care. Who questions the work ethic of scorers who simply don’t commit to becoming good defenders?

There are many ways to help your team. He’s not hurting his by not shooting any more than lots of shooters hurt theirs by getting blown by all game and giving up 3s when their teammates have to leave their men to help.

Getting better doesn’t always show in scoring numbers. The time you spend shooting is a very small portion of the game.

Now....is the time you spend spacing the floor a good deal of it? Sure. But not so much when the ball is in your hands to create.

Its a work around...but not as major a work around as having nobody to defend a star or having to bench your star in key moments because he’s getting slaughtered on switches.

All the pieces matter. Not just the highlights.

[Wally450]

Will be exposed come playoff time yet again.

[tontoz]

I used to follow the Hawks when i lived in Atlanta and Josh Smith used to drive me nuts. He insisted on shooting long range jumpers even though he proved time and again he can't shoot. He did so many things well and would have been a big asset if he just stopped jacking jumpers.

He ended up playing in China at age 31.

[Kblaze8855]

Will be exposed come playoff time yet again.



What I wonder is this....

When scorers lose in the playoffs while often ****ing up and being attacked on D is that them being exposed? Or is that just losing a game?

[rawimpact]

Protect him from who? Facebook comment section full of people who barely follow the game?

Ben doesnt need protecting. He’s good at virtually everything that the game asks other than the one thing casual fans care about.

I don’t think anyone of any consequence thinks he’s not good because people on the internet don’t.

You’ll lose just as quick in the playoffs not being able to play D as you will not being able to shoot. He can defend his ass off, rebound, start the offense, and seems to have meshed well with his teammates finally.

He’s just not what fans will ever value. But the same fans will turn around and call Melo a loser for being the exact opposite.

In the end....you just need to be the best version of you. Melo is a hall of famer. Given 6-8 more years Ben might be borderline too. If you’re a 3 time all star in 4 years you’re likely on the path to a great career if healthy.

People just don’t accept defenders and total players not becoming scorers but rarely get on scorers for not becoming good defenders. And many scorers have the physical talent but just don’t care. Who questions the work ethic of scorers who simply don’t commit to becoming good defenders?

There are many ways to help your team. He’s not hurting his by not shooting any more than lots of shooters hurt theirs by getting blown by all game and giving up 3s when their teammates have to leave their men to help.

Getting better doesn’t always show in scoring numbers. The time you spend shooting is a very small portion of the game.

Now....is the time you spend spacing the floor a good deal of it? Sure. But not so much when the ball is in your hands to create.

Its a work around...but not as major a work around as having nobody to defend a star or having to bench your star in key moments because he’s getting slaughtered on switches.

All the pieces matter. Not just the highlights.

get the hell out of here with this bullshit take

It's no just the internet that has critiqued ben for lack of offensive game, it's everyone. Coaches, colleagues etc.

The game has two things, defense and offense. One is really good, the other is not.

When he entered the league the biggest questions were 1. Will he develop a shot and 2. Will he work with Embiid because his offense is primarily driving into the paint where embiid resides.

Offensively it's always 4 v 5 because Ben's defender can be used to double embiid almost every possession. Celtics have used this strategy almost every time they play.

The 76ers potential parallels his offensive success. The old way of playing with a dominant center has always been what? Surround them with shooters because they will draw a double or triple. Examples of that include Dwight and Shaq. With simmons and his lack of shooting Embiid suffers too which means the team is limited.

[Kblaze8855]

It’s almost entirely know nothings on the internet. He won’t end up a 10 time all star off fan voting I promise. Coaches don’t watch shooting coaches watch basketball and talk defense. That’s why coaches like him more than fans.

I suspect they won’t win and as usual haters will feel vindicated by predicting the easiest thing in sports....a team not winning it all. And of course they will lose for the reason the haters say. As usual the other teams that lose without the issue in question won’t matter.

Its an old game. Predict failure because failure is always likely. Gloat when it comes. Pretend it came because you know the game and not because it comes to literally everyone but Bill Russell most of their careers.

The 76ers probably won’t win and if you swapped him for Trae young they wouldn’t likely win either. You’d just have a different narrative to spin when Kyrie drops 58 on him in the few minutes he’s switched on.

[tontoz]

The old way of playing with a dominant center has always been what? Surround them with shooters because they will draw a double or triple. Examples of that include Dwight and Shaq. With simmons and his lack of shooting Embiid suffers too which means the team is limited.

Dwight and Shaq couldn't shoot jumpers. Embiid can.

Embiid is shooting:

36.3% from 3
51% from 16 ft to the 3pt line
48.5% from 10 - 16 feet

Embiid is averaging 29 ppg with a TS of 63.4%. Doesn't look like he is suffering much lol.

[ImKobe]

It’s almost entirely know nothings on the internet. He won’t end up a 10 time all star off fan voting I promise. Coaches don’t watch shooting coaches watch basketball and talk defense. That’s why coaches like him more than fans.

I suspect they won’t win and as usual haters will feel vindicated by predicting the easiest thing in sports....a team not winning it all. And of course they will lose for the reason the haters say. As usual the other teams that lose without the issue in question won’t matter.

Its an old game. Predict failure because failure is always likely. Gloat when it comes. Pretend it came because you know the game and not because it comes to literally everyone but Bill Russell most of their careers.

The 76ers probably won’t win and if you swapped him for Trae young they wouldn’t likely win either. You’d just have a different narrative to spin when Kyrie drops 58 on him in the few minutes he’s switched on.

Ok, but are we really hating for pointing out the obvious here? The man hasn't worked on his jump shot or his FTs much at all, when they are the biggest flaws in his game. He took more mid-range shots his rookie season than any other year. I'm sure you've watched their recent Playoff series. Ben's flaws played a major part in their offense underperforming. It was glaring in in the Toronto series, where they made Jimmy the main ballhandler because their offense was easy to guard with Ben at the helm. He's lucky that Embiid's a good jump shooter for a big man and stretches the floor for him, but that's the saddest part. Embiid's so dominant inside that he shouldn't be shooting any jump shots, but he's forced to if he wants to play with Simmons.

[tontoz]

Ok, but are we really hating for pointing out the obvious here? The man hasn't worked on his jump shot or his FTs much at all, when they are the biggest flaws in his game. He took more mid-range shots his rookie season than any other year. I'm sure you've watched their recent Playoff series. Ben's flaws played a major part in their offense underperforming. It was glaring in in the Toronto series, where they made Jimmy the main ballhandler because their offense was easy to guard with Ben at the helm. He's lucky that Embiid's a good jump shooter for a big man and stretches the floor for him, but that's the saddest part. Embiid's so dominant inside that he shouldn't be shooting any jump shots, but he's forced to if he wants to play with Simmons.


How do you know he hasn't been working on his jumper? Are you part of the Philly organization?

My guess is that he has worked hard on his jumper but it isn't up to NBA standards. Rather than shooting poorly he chooses to shoot sparingly. I call this good self awareness.

While they lost to Toronto let's not forget they were one shot away from beating the team that won the title.

[ImKobe]

How do you know he hasn't been working on his jumper? Are you part of the Philly organization?

My guess is that he has worked hard on his jumper but it isn't up to NBA standards. Rather than shooting poorly he chooses to shoot sparingly. I call this good self awareness.

While they lost to Toronto let's not forget they were one shot away from beating the team that won the title.

I've heard various reports from the media about Simmons not really working that hard on his game, but all you have to do is look at the games/data to see that. This has been an issue for almost 5 years now. There's no way he's worked hard on his shooting when there's zero signs of improvement, whether FTs or jump shots, or willingness from him to even attempt any. But y'all be hyping him up in the off-season when someone posts a clip of him hitting a couple 3s in a workout, only for him to attempt 10 3-Pointers all season.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Time and time again playoff teams exploit someone who can't shoot. Lakers won with that because of Rondo. Mavericks won with that because of James and Wade. Spurs did the same. Cavaliers exploited Harrison Barnes going cold. Tony Allen was exploitable because of that. Bucks have been stymied because Giannis can't shoot. Sixers have repeatedly been exploited because of Simmons' limitations there.

Yes Simmons brings many great benefits to his team, but failing to develop a shot that defenses have to respect even if only a little, makes it much harder for his team to be successful in the playoffs. They have lost and will continue to lose series they would have otherwise won as long as he fails to improve that facet of his game.

[hateraid]

I'll just say this. If people are still picking on his jumper and says he hasn't improved as a player then you have zero BBIQ. Simmons has improved immensely.

Typical new aged basketball fans stuck on 3 pointers and stats to come up with a conclusion. This is where you can tell who watches the games. Eye test.

[hateraid]

Time and time again playoff teams exploit someone who can't shoot. Lakers won with that because of Rondo. Mavericks won with that because of James and Wade. Spurs did the same. Cavaliers exploited Harrison Barnes going cold. Tony Allen was exploitable because of that. Bucks have been stymied because Giannis can't shoot. Sixers have repeatedly been exploited because of Simmons' limitations there.

Yes Simmons brings many great benefits to his team, but failing to develop a shot that defenses have to respect even if only a little, makes it much harder for his team to be successful in the playoffs. They have lost and will continue to lose series they would have otherwise won as long as he fails to improve that facet of his game.

The worst series they had was against 2020 Celtics getting swept. Guess who didnt play? Simmons
So saying they lose series because of Simmons is inaccurate. In fact Embiid hasn't won a series without Simmons. You can say he's Pippen to Embiid's Jordan. :;)

[tontoz]

I've heard various reports from the media about Simmons not really working that hard on his game, but all you have to do is look at the games/data to see that. This has been an issue for almost 5 years now. There's no way he's worked hard on his shooting when there's zero signs of improvement, whether FTs or jump shots, or willingness from him to even attempt any. But y'all be hyping him up in the off-season when someone posts a clip of him hitting a couple 3s in a workout, only for him to attempt 10 3-Pointers all season.


So you think Shaq didn't work on his foul shooting? If you just look at the results it is easy to conclude he didn't work on it. However some guys just suck at shooting and no amount of practice will change that.

On page 2 of this thread rawimpact posted several links about Simmons working on his jumper.

[Kblaze8855]

Time and time again playoff teams exploit someone who can't shoot. Lakers won with that because of Rondo. Mavericks won with that because of James and Wade. Spurs did the same. Cavaliers exploited Harrison Barnes going cold. Tony Allen was exploitable because of that. Bucks have been stymied because Giannis can't shoot. Sixers have repeatedly been exploited because of Simmons' limitations there.

Yes Simmons brings many great benefits to his team, but failing to develop a shot that defenses have to respect even if only a little, makes it much harder for his team to be successful in the playoffs. They have lost and will continue to lose series they would have otherwise won as long as he fails to improve that facet of his game.


Once again it’s just fans saying teams lose for the reason that they pull out of their ass while ignoring the 28 other teams that lost too.

“They have lost and will continue to lose until....” could be said of almost the entire league for whatever reason you choose to use and you would be “right” 90% of their career in the best of cases.

Having a simple weakness isn’t the reason most teams lose. If the league had 30 flawless teams 29 would still lose.

Simmons with an average jumper wouldn’t get rid of the advantage of 3 goat tier scorers at their positions the nets have in a league designed for them to prosper.

[ImKobe]

The worst series they had was losing to Boston led by a rookie Tatum and "Scary Terry" in 5. They blew 3 close games. Remember that 1-Pt game from him?

[hateraid]

The worst series they had was losing to Boston led by a rookie Tatum and "Scary Terry" in 5. They blew 3 close games. Remember that 1-Pt game from him?

Some of those games were close and even went to OT. It was actually a hard fought series that was won by some brilliant calls at the end by Stevens. One game from Simmons didn't swing that series.

Getting blown out by the Celtics last year was worse. And no Ben Simmons in that series at all.

Did you even watch those series? Your take is completely false. I've watched both series as a Sixers fan. Even Celtics fans would agree with me on this.

[999Guy]

Why? Because he can't shoot 3's? Is that what seperates a really good player to a great player?
I'd rather have a defensive anchor who can also run the floor over a Duncan Robinson

He isn’t a defensive anchor though.

Simmons is middling at every aspect of the game. Elite at nothing.

[ImKobe]

So you think Shaq didn't work on his foul shooting? If you just look at the results it is easy to conclude he didn't work on it. However some guys just suck at shooting and no amount of practice will change that.

On page 2 of this thread rawimpact posted several links about Simmons working on his jumper.

Shaq's a poor example. He wasn't known for his work ethic outside of his 2000 MVP year. After they won, he started not working as hard and came into every RS out of shape and went up to 400 pounds. You think he worked hard to improve his shot?

How many guys have come into the league with a broken jumper and became at least half-decent? I'm not a Philly fan so I don't really care whether he improves or doesn't, and I'm sure he could put up better numbers and maybe even win a title as is with the rate that Embiid's improving his shot at. It's just insane to me that Joel's developed into Dirk from mid-range while Simmons still can't make a shot beyond 10 ft.

Just remembered where I heard recently about his poor work ethic, I doubt Russillo made this up

https://fastphillysports.com/sixers-simmons-work-ethic-he-does-not-put-in-the-time-to-improve-as-a-shooter/


The Ringer’s Ryen Russillo reports that an NBA scout’s take on Sixers Ben Simmons shooting deficiencies and reluctance to improve stem from his work ethic:

“He does not put in the time to improve.

“Very poor perimeter shooter and like he doesn’t look at the rim,” Russillo reports.

“Total non-three-point shooter. Doc says he’s not concerned but come playoff time he will be. He must improve as a free-throw shooter, especially in the playoffs. Career 60-percent on five attempts per game.

“I know some of what’s going on in Philly the past three seasons. One of his problems is he does not put in the time to improve. Don’t believe the IG or Twitter workouts you see his brother post. It’s all phony. He does not work on his shooting. Everyone can see the mechanical problems, but he is not and probably will not address it.

“He loves LA and spends most of his time there in the offseason. He definitely has some Hollywood in him. If he ever gets serious about improving his shooting and free throws he could be as good as Giannis, but I don’t think he’s wired that way. lots of cool guy with him.

“I would take Jaylen over Ben moving forward the next 8 to 10 years,” Russillo report says. “There is very little separation on difference defensively. Both are excellent in today’s game. Shooting is so important and Jaylen is clearly better and always will be, in my opinion. Both are fantastic open court players, Jaylen also has a more serious workman like approach to improving.”


Some of those games were close and even went to OT. It was actually a hard fought series that was won by some brilliant calls at the end by Stevens. One game from Simmons didn't swing that series.

Getting blown out by the Celtics last year was worse. And no Ben Simmons in that series at all.

Did you even watch those series? Your take is completely false. I've watched both series as a Sixers fan. Even Celtics fans would agree with me on this.

How was it worse? Simmons was their only playmaker and their best perimeter defender. They had no chance without him. Celtics were clearly the better team in 2020. It's a lot worse to lose to a Boston team w/o Irving & Hayward led by a rookie Tatum. They were a huge favorite to win that series. Jaylen Brown was out for Game 1 and they still lost by 16..

[Ainosterhaspie]

Once again it’s just fans saying teams lose for the reason that they pull out of their ass while ignoring the 28 other teams that lost too.

“They have lost and will continue to lose until....” could be said of almost the entire league for whatever reason you choose to use and you would be “right” 90% of their career in the best of cases.

Having a simple weakness isn’t the reason most teams lose. If the league had 30 flawless teams 29 would still lose.

Simmons with an average jumper wouldn’t get rid of the advantage of 3 goat tier scorers at their positions the nets have in a league designed for them to prosper.
What you are saying and what I'm saying aren't mutually exclusive. If a team wants to improve its chances, it needs to identify and fix weaknesses. Failing to do so prevents a team from reaching its full potential.

I don't know how it can be seriously argued Simmons shooting isn't an exploitable weakness which if improved upon would significantly help his team's playoff chances. I'm not talking about him turning into Curry or anything, and there probably isn't a need for him to make it a core part of his game, but defenders should have to think twice before leaving him wide open.

[tontoz]

Shaq's a poor example. He wasn't known for his work ethic outside of his 2000 MVP year. After they won, he started not working as hard and came into every RS out of shape and went up to 400 pounds. You think he worked hard to improve his shot?

How many guys have come into the league with a broken jumper and became at least half-decent? I'm not a Philly fan so I don't really care whether he improves or doesn't, and I'm sure he could put up better numbers and maybe even win a title as is with the rate that Embiid's improving his shot at. It's just insane to me that Joel's developed into Dirk from mid-range while Simmons still can't make a shot beyond 10 ft.

Just remembered where I heard recently about his poor work ethic, I doubt Russillo made this up

https://fastphillysports.com/sixers-simmons-work-ethic-he-does-not-put-in-the-time-to-improve-as-a-shooter/



Shaq had a half court gym built in his house to work on his foul shooting. He said he worked on it all the time.

Joel came into the league with the ability to shoot, shooting 78% from the foul line and shooting 37% from 3.

When the people who are actually working with Simmons say he is working on his shot i think their word matters more than someone who isnt working for the organization.

He doesn't work on this shot at all? So all those people on those other links is a liar?

I used to go the the Hawks games in Atlanta and see Josh Smith working on his shot all the time well before the games. He still sucked. He would have been better off just not taking them at all.

[ImKobe]

Shaq had a half court gym built in his house to work on his foul shooting. He said he worked on it all the time.

Joel came into the league with the ability to shoot, shooting 78% from the foul line and shooting 37% from 3.

When the people who are actually working with Simmons say he is working on his shot i think their word matters more than someone who isnt working for the organization.

He doesn't work on this shot at all? So all those people on those other links is a liar?

I used to go the the Hawks games in Atlanta and see Josh Smith working on his shot all the time well before the games. He still sucked. He would have been better off just not taking them at all.

FT shooting can be a mental thing, as players like Dwight Howard have shot 80% in practice and ~50% in actual games. Ben doesn't even try to shoot in games. If he worked on his shot all the time, he'd at least attempt shots, right? Why would they not have him shoot 1-2 threes per game if he's working hard on his shot? Giannis was a terrible 3PT shooter, but they had him shoot 2-3 a game anyways and he's slowly become more consistent at that shot. How is Ben investing all these years into improving his shot, but only attempts 10 threes in 50 games when he's wide open all the time?

[tontoz]

FT shooting can be a mental thing, as players like Dwight Howard have shot 80% in practice and ~50% in actual games. Ben doesn't even try to shoot in games. If he worked on his shot all the time, he'd at least attempt shots, right? Why would they not have him shoot 1-2 threes per game if he's working hard on his shot? Giannis was a terrible 3PT shooter, but they had him shoot 2-3 a game anyways and he's slowly become more consistent at that shot. How is Ben investing all these years into improving his shot, but only attempts 10 threes in 50 games when he's wide open all the time?


Would you say Giannis is a hard worker? Do you think he doesn't work tirelessly on his 3pt shot and foul shooting? How has that worked out? He still sucks. He would be better off not shooting them. Whenever he takes a 3 that is what the defense wants.

Giannis' best 3 point shooting was as a rookie. All that work hasn't amounted to a hill of beans.

[ImKobe]

Would you say Giannis is a hard worker? Do you think he doesn't work tirelessly on his 3pt shot and foul shooting? How has that worked out? He still sucks. He would be better off not shooting them. Whenever he takes a 3 that is what the defense wants.

Giannis' best 3 point shooting was as a rookie. All that work hasn't amounted to a hill of beans.

He does, which is why his shooting numbers/volume have increased over the years. He doesn't have to be a 38% 3PT shooter for that shot to be effective. If he's aggressive and makes 1/3 of those, the defense has to respect his shot at least a little bit. He's shown he can heat up from 3 in games & he's shooting 36% from three post-ASB. He's had seasons of 75+% FT shooting and his FT% has come back up after a down year. There's none of that for Ben, who's still a 60% FT shooter and who went from shooting mid-range shots and sucking at them to not really shooting any shots beyond 10 ft at all.

Giannis' best 3-Pt season is actually the current one. As a rookie, he only attempted 1.5 a game.

[tontoz]

He does, which is why his shooting numbers/volume have increased over the years. He doesn't have to be a 38% 3PT shooter for that shot to be effective. If he's aggressive and makes 1/3 of those, the defense has to respect his shot at least a little bit. He's shown he can heat up from 3 in games & he's shooting 36% from three post-ASB. He's had seasons of 75+% FT shooting and his FT% has come back up after a down year. There's none of that for Ben, who's still a 60% FT shooter and who went from shooting mid-range shots and sucking at them to not really shooting any shots beyond 10 ft at all.

Giannis' best 3-Pt season is actually the current one. As a rookie, he only attempted 1.5 a game.

So after all those years of work this seasons' 31.1% is his best? That is an EFG of 46.65% on 3s which just proves my point. He isn't a shooter. He would be better off not taking 3s at all. Teams will allow him to take all the 3s he wants.

He shoots 62.6% on 2s.

[ImKobe]

So after all those years of work this seasons' 31.1% is his best? That is an EFG of 46.65% on 3s which just proves my point. He isn't a shooter. He would be better off not taking 3s at all. Teams will allow him to take all the 3s he wants.

He shoots 62.6% on 2s.

That's like saying Lebron should have never worked on mid-range/3s because he was so efficient attacking the paint.

[tontoz]

That's like saying Lebron should have never worked on mid-range/3s because he was so efficient attacking the paint.

Lebron shot 35% from 3 at age 20 on 4 attempts per game.

Some guys just don't have the ability to shoot jumpers at an NBA level. Westbrook for example would be a much better player if he just reduced the number of jumpers he takes.

[Druckenmiller]

I’m pretty confident Ben Simmons is the biggest pu$$ie to have played in the NBA in my lifetime. That dude doesn’t want it. Wants nothing to do with it. Cherokee Parks wanted the ball more than Ben Simmons does.

Lonzo Ball had a broke ass shot and he got it fixed and now he is averaging more point per game than Ben Simmons. That’s impossibly weak.

The problem with Simmons is he would rather take five shots and score six points and lose than be responsible for leading his team by doing something with the ball.


I don’t know what the word in the Dictionary is for the opposite of aggressive, assertive, determined, but on the basketball court clearly the definition of the opposite of those things is Ben Simmons.

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EHA4UhYuQY

Can't make this shit up.

[rawimpact]

But his field goal percentage has also dropped from .58 to .56

He's averaging a minute less than his rookie season and just about all his numbers are down from then, points, blocks, assists, steals, rebounds


Every year we get this

2016: Jerryd Bayless Working With Ben Simmons on His Jump Shot (Source: https://thesixersense.com/2017/04/20/philadelphia-76ers-jerryd-bayless-working-ben-simmons-jump-shot/)

2017: Ben Simmons working on his jump shot, which is good news for Sixers (Source: https://www.phillyvoice.com/ben-simmons-working-his-jump-shot-which-good-news-sixers-roster/)

2018: 76ers star Ben Simmons says improving jump shot has been main focus of his offseason training (Source: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/76ers-star-ben-simmons-says-improving-jump-shot-has-been-main-focus-of-his-offseason-training/)

2019: Sixers’ Ben Simmons impresses Brett Brown with offseason work on outside shooting (Source: https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/philadelphia-sixers-76ers-ben-simmons-chris-johnson-brett-brown-jimmy-butler-tobias-harris-nba-lebron-james-20190926.html)

2020: Sixers’ Ben Simmons working on jump shot with Sam Cassell (Source:https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-ben-simmons-working-on-jump-shot-with-sam-cassell/)


2016: 55% fg
2021: 56% fg


another year working on his J

[Iverson3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EHA4UhYuQY

Can't make this shit up.

Ben Simmons is what LeBron haters imagine him to be. Even a 50 years old LeBron would score more than 5 points in a playoffs series

[1987_Lakers]

Protect him from who? Facebook comment section full of people who barely follow the game?

Ben doesnt need protecting. He’s good at virtually everything that the game asks other than the one thing casual fans care about.

I don’t think anyone of any consequence thinks he’s not good because people on the internet don’t.

You’ll lose just as quick in the playoffs not being able to play D as you will not being able to shoot. He can defend his ass off, rebound, start the offense, and seems to have meshed well with his teammates finally.

He’s just not what fans will ever value. But the same fans will turn around and call Melo a loser for being the exact opposite.

In the end....you just need to be the best version of you. Melo is a hall of famer. Given 6-8 more years Ben might be borderline too. If you’re a 3 time all star in 4 years you’re likely on the path to a great career if healthy.

People just don’t accept defenders and total players not becoming scorers but rarely get on scorers for not becoming good defenders. And many scorers have the physical talent but just don’t care. Who questions the work ethic of scorers who simply don’t commit to becoming good defenders?

There are many ways to help your team. He’s not hurting his by not shooting any more than lots of shooters hurt theirs by getting blown by all game and giving up 3s when their teammates have to leave their men to help.

Getting better doesn’t always show in scoring numbers. The time you spend shooting is a very small portion of the game.

Now....is the time you spend spacing the floor a good deal of it? Sure. But not so much when the ball is in your hands to create.

Its a work around...but not as major a work around as having nobody to defend a star or having to bench your star in key moments because he’s getting slaughtered on switches.

All the pieces matter. Not just the highlights.

Sorry kblaze, much respect but you were wrong here.

[Kblaze8855]

Meanwhile....as I said....he’s eliminated the same round as the scorers.

Ben, Gobert, Dame, Luka, Beal....whoever.

All at home regardless of which end they excel. Dame leading a team with I think the 3rd worst defense ever makes it exactly as unlikely they win but we are kinda conditioned to ignore it.

An L is an L no matter how you arrive at it.

Its funny to joke about aspects of it but in the end....they all lose. You don’t get half a ring because you scored 22 and lost instead of 8 with 15 assists.

Its funny to joke about Gobert and Simmons. It is. I do it. But it doesn’t really....mean anything. Not like this wasn’t my predicted outcome:




I suspect they won’t win and as usual haters will feel vindicated by predicting the easiest thing in sports....a team not winning it all. And of course they will lose for the reason the haters say. As usual the other teams that lose without the issue in question won’t matter..

[rawimpact]

Meanwhile....as I said....he’s eliminated the same round as the scorers.

Ben, Gobert, Dame, Luka, Beal....whoever.

All at home regardless of which end they excel. Dame leading a team with I think the 3rd worst defense ever makes it exactly as unlikely they win but we are kinda conditioned to ignore it.

An L is an L no matter how you arrive at it.

Its funny to joke about aspects of it but in the end....they all lose. You don’t get half a ring because you scored 22 and lost instead of 8 with 15 assists.

Its funny to joke about Gobert and Simmons. It is. I do it. But it doesn’t really....mean anything. Not like this wasn’t my predicted outcome:


lol no it's not... another horrible take by you.

[Gohan]

an l is not an l. you think fans want to see a team that can win if the player wasnt incompetent(simmons) or a team that just can't win cause they dont have the right pieces(blazers). we'd much rather see dame lose because we know he tried simmons on the other hand is just a quitter

[lakerstekkenn]

If Simmons has trouble shooting then since he's a great passer you create offensive sets that will get him open shots, then hire a shooting coach that will teach him to hit shots jumpers until he develops his three point shots, Rondo is a perfect example he couldn't shoot and still has trouble shooting but he's slowly getting better, you just don't give up on him because this will come back to haunt you going against the team you trade him to, they will help his shooting because he's a good passing point guard but lacks a constant jumper.

[3ba11]

.

Simmons..... 16/8/8... 56%... 19.8 PER... 0.156 WS/58... 3.7 BPM
Pippen'........ 16/6/5... 47%... 18.6 PER... 0.146 WS/48... 4.1 BPM


A bad scorer that plays good defense is called DEFENSIVE ROLE PLAYER - that's what Pippen and Simmons are - Pippen averaged 15.7 on 40% in 2 Finals, and 19.0 on 42% for his Finals career.

Simmons is actually a much better passer and rebounder, with equal scoring.. the only difference is that he didn't have MJ to emulate and light that fire under him

[Kblaze8855]

So we putting moral victory trophies up somewhere? Do you use an imaginary mantle?

Flawed players lose most of their career. Complete players too. Scorers who can’t defend. Defenders who don’t score. All of them lose. I watched prime Kidd put up 4, 3 and 8 points in a series they lost. Meanwhile GP was dropping 30 and losing his series too. You think GP felt more like a winner that offseason? Someone more prone to win because he was a scorer and Kidd wasn’t?

They both lost early and felt like shit I’m sure. 12 different reasons for each like always.

[Gohan]

well ben simmons is not the type of player that can ask for help. a player like lillard can. that's the difference

[Kblaze8855]

an l is not an l. you think fans want to see a team that can win if the player wasnt incompetent(simmons) or a team that just can't win cause they dont have the right pieces(blazers). we'd much rather see dame lose because we know he tried simmons on the other hand is just a quitter

And here is where the problem is found....

Much better combos than Simmons and Embiid don’t win all the time....you can put mvps on the same team and lose. It happens almost yearly these days. “They would have won if....” is just meaningless. All the good teams have “Could have won if....” scapegoats. Ben dunks 4 shots instead of dropping them off for assisted 3s he has more points and the team has less.

He takes less heat with 14 points or so even if the team has less. That the way to play it?

Yes...he passes up shots. So did Kidd. And Rondo shouldn’t have passed out of layups. And any number of others. Some are built that way.

And in the end....the people built the other way lose too. It’s just easier for fans to accept.

[tpols]

Harris blew it more than Simmons. If he plays just average instead of 8-24 Sixers win.

[Gohan]

Harris blew it more than Simmons. If he plays just average instead of 8-24 Sixers win.

harris was ridiculous he was missing wide open layups. i dont even care about his fg% if he was taking tough shots or something but he missed atleast 4 wide open layups that game

[MadDog]

So we putting moral victory trophies up somewhere? Do you use an imaginary mantle?

Flawed players lose most of their career. Complete players too. Scorers who can’t defend. Defenders who don’t score. All of them lose. I watched prime Kidd put up 4, 3 and 8 points in a series they lost. Meanwhile GP was dropping 30 and losing his series too. You think GP felt more like a winner that offseason? Someone more prone to win because he was a scorer and Kidd wasn’t?

They both lost early and felt like shit I’m sure. 12 different reasons for each like always.

Kidd could shoot the three and hit freethrows. He was never scared to score like Ben visibly was. Intent matters and so does context. You're not applying either. Why now is the argument about "feelings" you get in a L? We're talking about skills here, or are we not?

[rawimpact]

And here is where the problem is found....

Much better combos than Simmons and Embiid don’t win all the time....you can put mvps on the same team and lose. It happens almost yearly these days. “They would have won if....” is just meaningless. All the good teams have “Could have won if....” scapegoats. Ben dunks 4 shots instead of dropping them off for assisted 3s he has more points and the team has less.

He takes less heat with 14 points or so even if the team has less. That the way to play it?

Yes...he passes up shots. So did Kidd. And Rondo shouldn’t have passed out of layups. And any number of others. Some are built that way.

And in the end....the people built the other way lose too. It’s just easier for fans to accept.

Who cares what they felt. In your own example both Kidd's and Gary's Ls are not the same if both were just signed to 30% of the team's cap space. Why are we ignoring the fact that this wasnt just one series, this has been year after year Simmons goes missing in the post-season. It just hurts more this year because they took the L against a weaker team and because of the contract signed by Simmons.

[Kblaze8855]

Kidd could shoot the three and hit freethrows. He was never scared to score like Ben visibly was. Intent matters and so does context. You're not applying either. Why now is the argument about "feelings" you get in a L? We're talking about skills here, or are we not?

Whatever he could do in theory he in fact scored almost nothing many times. Despite what he looks like people are gonna have to come to grips with Ben not being Lebron, Giannis, or Grant Hill. He’s a tall ass Muggsy/Rondo/Kidd type not looking to score. Might he develop like Kidd and Rondo and be more assertive? Maybe. Maybe not.

In the end....it is feelings we are talking about. Fans mostly. He assisted on 31 points. Take away the 5 threes....he fakes the pass and drives and scored all 5. He had 10 more points the team has 5 less.

Did he play better? Would his 5 layup in your mind alter the game enough in their favor that losing the 5 extra points doesn’t stop them from losing by even more?

Performance is never as simple as angry fans after a game want it to be.

He doesnt shoot when they take 20 point leads or when they are down. I doubt he sees his scoring as the key when he plays the same either way.

Sure it’s annoying for someone with his gifts to not attack. It’s also annoying when people with his gifts don’t do anything to help steam but steamroll to the basket like Corey Maggette.

Corey might score 25 a game today in Bens place. They would still lose....but he’d have enough points to not be accused of a no show despite probably making the team worse. Any number of people could have won Philly this series but the public’s natural love of scorers obscures that into a bunch of blown leads and shit decisions being the fault of one guy playing the way he always does.

Harris doesn’t miss 16 shots Ben probably had 17 assists and there’s nothing to talk about because they win. And Harris isn’t to blame either.

Fans assign one thing to virtually every big loss for simplicities sake and yea....it makes it easy.

Doesnt make it true.

Bet your ass after the ecf the blame will be either on Giannis not being able to shoot or Young not being able to defend. This one is on Ben not being a scorer. Always a neat little package easy for fans to consume and tv to get segments done.

Thats sports.

[rmt]

Meanwhile....as I said....he’s eliminated the same round as the scorers.

Ben, Gobert, Dame, Luka, Beal....whoever.

All at home regardless of which end they excel. Dame leading a team with I think the 3rd worst defense ever makes it exactly as unlikely they win but we are kinda conditioned to ignore it.

An L is an L no matter how you arrive at it.

Its funny to joke about aspects of it but in the end....they all lose. You don’t get half a ring because you scored 22 and lost instead of 8 with 15 assists.

Its funny to joke about Gobert and Simmons. It is. I do it. But it doesn’t really....mean anything. Not like this wasn’t my predicted outcome:

I strongly disagree with this statement. It does matter how you lose. If it's bad luck, wrong bounce, etc. I can live with things I can't control - at least I tried my hardest, gave my best effort, worked my tail off. That video of him passing up that dunk should just never happen - especially not to an all-star, your "second" best player.

[Kblaze8855]

Videos of people not hustling on defense shouldn’t happen either. But certain players have certain things they simply are not showing a desire to do. A lot won’t defend at all. Almost all of them will lose their entire careers. Some won’t shoot. Some won’t pass. All issues. All hurt. But none draw the concern of fans like not scoring because that’s all fans talk about.

I just heard Jay Williams say he and Jalen were watching espns coverage and asking themselves did anyone notice Embiid 16 turnovers in 2 games, 45 points of blown leads, and Doc making no adjustments or was it gonna be Simmons talk all day because that’s easy.

And of course it’s what’s easy. And nothing is easier for a fan to grasp than “Paid a lot....doesn’t score much”.

That’s the sports coverage we have and there’s no changing it I guess.

15 things caused that series loss. One of them gets talked about. 2 at most. The easy ones for fans to get their heads around.

[bizil]

The thing with Simmons is he's great at EVERYTHING except the shooting shit. When people compared him Magic and Bron, I got it to an extent. 6'9 and up pass first triple double guys u can play as a PG or point forward. BUT it was never truly valid BECAUSE Bron is a dominant alpha dog scorer. Magic was a pass first PG who ALSO could morph into an alpha dog scorer when he felt like. And this was BEFORE Magic turned into a very good shooter.

So for me, Ben was like a supersized version of young J Kidd. BEFORE Kidd's jumper really improved. That was the comp for me IN TERMS of the scoring ability shit. Once Kidd's J was GOOD ENOUGH, he was an MVP candidate. And that's the thing. Ben's jumper DOESN'T need to be great. Just needs to be GOOD ENOUGH! OR be like a Giannis and be a force scoring the rock IN SPITE of shooting woes. EITHER is acceptable for a player like Simmons. He has great positional versatility, athletic ability, triple double shit, and IQ.

And I'm not sure what happened in Philly. BUT having Butler and Reddick on the squad along with Embid and Simmons was their best team SINCE Simmons has been there. They should have found a way to make that work long term. Once again, not sure what happened. BUT that's an ideal team for Simmons to play PG and having Embid down low wrecking shop. Because you have a perennial All Star wing in Butler who has no weaknesses in his game. You have Reddick who is a great sniper to stretch the floor. Ben could have COMFORTABLY been the 3rd or 4th scoring option on that team. And his shortcomings scoring the rock wouldn't have been as harmful.

[LAL]

Videos of people not hustling on defense shouldnÂ’t happen either. But certain players have certain things they simply are not showing a desire to do. A lot wonÂ’t defend at all. Almost all of them will lose their entire careers. Some wonÂ’t shoot. Some wonÂ’t pass. All issues. All hurt. But none draw the concern of fans like not scoring because thatÂ’s all fans talk about.

I just heard Jay Williams say he and Jalen were watching espns coverage and asking themselves did anyone notice Embiid 16 turnovers in 2 games, 45 points of blown leads, and Doc making no adjustments or was it gonna be Simmons talk all day because thatÂ’s easy.

And of course it’s what’s easy. And nothing is easier for a fan to grasp than “Paid a lot....doesn’t score much”.

ThatÂ’s the sports coverage we have and thereÂ’s no changing it I guess.

15 things caused that series loss. One of them gets talked about. 2 at most. The easy ones for fans to get their heads around.

Bro what are we doing here? He's getting traded, he's a mental case, it's over soon. Mental problems, can't shoot, refuses to shoot like no player ever, scared to shoot free throws making him look like a scared like a little girl in close games/POs, moving under the basket as the playmaker while crowding the paint for Embid knowing ben won't take the shot anyway, everything points to him being lazy during off season.. but i'm sure he does a lot conditioning since he's happy playing hard defense for that supermax, popularity and all star selections as a starting point guard.

Doc sucked again, Embid had some rough games and an injury. But Ben's clown show is year after year. What do you do with a taller Pat Beverly with confidence/lazyness issues who was babied from birth up until this point.. and shoots less than him too.

EVERYONE is talking about Simmons and his game because people are shocked at what they're seeing.. but kblaze thinks everyone is wrong and we should all focus more on the first year (overrated) coach and the superstar that ended second in MVP voting. Can't believe this shit

[MadDog]

Whatever he could do in theory he in fact scored almost nothing many times. Despite what he looks like people are gonna have to come to grips with Ben not being Lebron, Giannis, or Grant Hill. He’s a tall ass Muggsy/Rondo/Kidd type not looking to score. Might he develop like Kidd and Rondo and be more assertive? Maybe. Maybe not.

In the end....it is feelings we are talking about. Fans mostly. He assisted on 31 points. Take away the 5 threes....he fakes the pass and drives and scored all 5. He had 10 more points the team has 5 less.

Did he play better? Would his 5 layup in your mind alter the game enough in their favor that losing the 5 extra points doesn’t stop them from losing by even more?

Performance is never as simple as angry fans after a game want it to be.

He doesnt shoot when they take 20 point leads or when they are down. I doubt he sees his scoring as the key when he plays the same either way.

Sure it’s annoying for someone with his gifts to not attack. It’s also annoying when people with his gifts don’t do anything to help steam but steamroll to the basket like Corey Maggette.

Corey might score 25 a game today in Bens place. They would still lose....but he’d have enough points to not be accused of a no show despite probably making the team worse. Any number of people could have won Philly this series but the public’s natural love of scorers obscures that into a bunch of blown leads and shit decisions being the fault of one guy playing the way he always does.

Harris doesn’t miss 16 shots Ben probably had 17 assists and there’s nothing to talk about because they win. And Harris isn’t to blame either.

Fans assign one thing to virtually every big loss for simplicities sake and yea....it makes it easy.

Doesnt make it true.

Bet your ass after the ecf the blame will be either on Giannis not being able to shoot or Young not being able to defend. This one is on Ben not being a scorer. Always a neat little package easy for fans to consume and tv to get segments done.

Thats sports.

Sounds like you're missing the point. Simmons is a "star" player. So if those are the expectations, then that's the grading curve. Few of the examples you're arguing I'm not gonna dispute. Because I agree with most of them. But what's your take on Ben's play this series? Overall. Was he average? Below average?

:confusedshrug:

In a Game 7, Ben took 4 shots and had 2 free throw attempts. That playing at a star level?

[tpols]

Sounds like you're missing the point. Simmons is a "star" player. So if those are the expectations, then that's the grading curve. Few of the examples you're arguing I'm not gonna dispute. Because I agree with most of them. But what's your take on Ben's play this series? Overall. Was he average? Below average?

:confusedshrug:

In a Game 7, Ben took 4 shots and had 2 free throw attempts. That playing at a star level?

That's pretty much exactly what dray does. Ben Simmons splits are in the plus... He wasnt the problem. Tobias Harris was. (he's in the negative)

And then they had guys like Furkan Korkmaz and Matisse Thybulle getting heavy minutes... They lost because of their lack of depth and Harris shooting like crap.

And its the coaches fault for blowing two 20+ point leads in games 1 and 5.That's just embarrassing.

[Gohan]

that's pretty much exactly what dray does. Ben simmons splits are in the plus... He wasnt the problem. Tobias harris was. (he's in the negative)

and then they had guys like furkan korkmaz and matisse thybulle getting heavy minutes... They lost because of their lack of depth and harris shooting like crap.

And its the coaches fault for blowing two 20+ point leads at home in games 1 and 6. That's just embarrassing.

im glad you realize harris was a problem too. He missed about 5 wide open layups game 7 it was ridiculous

[MadDog]

That's pretty much exactly what dray does. Ben Simmons splits are in the plus... He wasnt the problem. Tobias Harris was. (he's in the negative)

And then they had guys like Furkan Korkmaz and Matisse Thybulle getting heavy minutes... They lost because of their lack of depth and Harris shooting like crap.

And its the coaches fault for blowing two 20+ point leads in games 1 and 5.That's just embarrassing.

What splits? Hope you're not talking about team stats. Ben doesn't get THE blame but he does get flack. Shooting just 4 times in a Game 7 is weak. Guy averages over double that amount in the regular-season.

[tanibanana]

His peak year is his rookie year..

[BarberSchool]

Yes, because he never has been good offensively like he was marketed as.
This was suppose to be a Embiid-Simmons led team which never blossomed to because one of them never improved.
Tobias doing work filling in the gap

This.
AF

[Jasper]

phila has stated changes need to be made...
Simmons to bang with D-league - so he gets his mojo back -
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31700970/more-offseason-talks-expected-ben-simmons-future-philadelphia-76ers-sources-say

[Kblaze8855]

Sounds like you're missing the point. Simmons is a "star" player. So if those are the expectations, then that's the grading curve. Few of the examples you're arguing I'm not gonna dispute. Because I agree with most of them. But what's your take on Ben's play this series? Overall. Was he average? Below average?

:confusedshrug:

In a Game 7, Ben took 4 shots and had 2 free throw attempts. That playing at a star level?

Considering how often he does it obviously him not shooting doesn’t keep him from being a star if you think he is(which I assume when you say you judge him as one).

He’s on a long list of all stars I don’t expect to score much. Sometimes not all. Having watched him occasionally just completely stop shooting for years why would I have to adjust what I thought when he continues to do it?

Am I thinking “Oh my god....what happened to Rodman?” when he has 3 points? Dray? Rondo?
Jason Kidd had years he scored 5 or less 10+ times. Playoff series with multiple games under 5 points.

Once I know who these players are why would I keep expecting them to be someone else? I expect Simmons to pass out of good looks and so should you. So should anyone who watched him. And if you did...and determined he’s a star to be judged as one....I don’t know how you would then decide he isn’t when he keeps doing it.

Like....how many times will you be amazed when he takes 5 shots? He’s gonna do it 190 more times. Think what you want about it. I’m just saying....it’s not a shocker at this point is it? How many times can the same behavior be noteworthy? Do you watch Draymond have 8 points and think “What the hell is going on?”? Even in his prime?

That something you didn’t see happen often enough to take it in stride?

[rmt]

Considering how often he does it obviously him not shooting doesn’t keep him from being a star if you think he is(which I assume when you say you judge him as one).

He’s on a long list of all stars I don’t expect to score much. Sometimes not all. Having watched him occasionally just completely stop shooting for years why would I have to adjust what I thought when he continues to do it?

Am I thinking “Oh my god....what happened to Rodman?” when he has 3 points? Dray? Rondo?
Jason Kidd had years he scored 5 or less 10+ times. Playoff series with multiple games under 5 points.

Once I know who these players are why would I keep expecting them to be someone else? I expect Simmons to pass out of good looks and so should you. So should anyone who watched him. And if you did...and determined he’s a star to be judged as one....I don’t know how you would then decide he isn’t when he keeps doing it.

Like....how many times will you be amazed when he takes 5 shots? He’s gonna do it 190 more times. Think what you want about it. I’m just saying....it’s not a shocker at this point is it? How many times can the same behavior be noteworthy?

No matter what your expectations, there is no EXCUSING not taking that dunk. These are the last minutes of game 7 of the WCSF - not some insignificant regular season game on the back end of 3 games in 4 nights (even then I would expect him to take that wide open, uncontested dunk). Aren't we watching NBA to see playoff basketball where the players lay it all on the line, play massive minutes, compete hard even if not 100%?

[Gohan]

Ben's right handed. he learned with the wrong hand. he signs autographs right and dunks right/jumps off his left leg and gets way more height than when off his right leg.

lebron overcame learning with the wrong hand for threes due to tons of practice but he's still very shaky in the mid range and with free throws. and Ben hasn't put in 1/1000th the amount of work lebron has just to be an OK 3 point shooter and a barely manageable free throw shooter.

so it might never happen for him. I started with my left too and my coach corrected me after like 2 years. it took me almost no time to get a better shot than what I had with my left. you just gotta start close to the basket and use one hand. shoot 10 times then back up one stide. do this till you get to the mid range then do it again and again till you get good at that. then move to threes when you got the mechanics down


https://i.ibb.co/zHWKpN5/maxresdefault-33.jpg

YOURE COMPLETELY RIGHT. i used to shoot with my left hand i was a good shooter thouugh. still i erased that shit and started shooting with my right hand. it's easy to learn how to shoot with your off hand, especially when youre shooting 3's

[Kblaze8855]

No matter what your expectations, there is no EXCUSING not taking that dunk. These are the last minutes of game 7 of the WCSF - not some insignificant regular season game on the back end of 3 games in 4 nights (even then I would expect him to take that wide open, uncontested dunk). Aren't we watching NBA to see playoff basketball where the players lay it all on the line, play massive minutes, compete hard even if not 100%?

Why would I excuse it? Why would I need to? He should have dunked it. Is that being debated somewhere?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Or maybe he has improved in ways that don't show up in the box score. More likely he fits in better with the rest of the team.

If the team lacks shooting then Simmons lack of a jumper becomes a bigger problem. When Morey took the job the first thing he did was bring in shooters, most notably Curry and Green.

Interesting this guy is now blaming Dray even though the Warriors have plenty of shooter. Weird.

[tontoz]

Interesting this guy is now blaming Dray even though the Warriors have plenty of shooter. Weird.


Simmons was playing with 4 shooters. Looney isn't a shooter but at least he can finish inside unlike Dray.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Simmons was playing with 4 shooters. Looney isn't a shooter but at least he can finish inside unlike Dray.

3 elite shooters isn't enough. Blame the best defender and playmaker the warriors have. :oldlol:

You guys are so weak

[tontoz]

3 elite shooters isn't enough. Blame the best defender and playmaker the warriors have. :oldlol:

You guys are so weak


Who is this third elite shooter?

Who led the team in assists in the WCF?

[FultzNationRISE]

https://media.giphy.com/media/NEvPzZ8bd1V4Y/giphy.gif

[WhiteKyrie]

Simmons is trash and always was dirty water trash

[1987_Lakers]

Averaging 6 ppg, lol.

[Smook A.]

He's entering his prime years and somehow he looks worse than he ever did.

He looks scared to drive in to the rim to even draw a little bit of contact. Is he scared of shooting free throws? And he's been incredibly passive. Showing no aggression at all, and just wants to play it safe every time he's on the court. Something's wrong with him psychologically

[Patrick Chewing]

Oh. My. God.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4jCXoR8ovA

[fourkicks44]

Hmmm...

I'll just post this,


https://youtu.be/61Th2jE10gM

It obviously helps when you are playing with real Gs like TJ and Richaun Holmes. Either way you can say he has actually regressed offensively and the truth layed bare for all to see is that his problem is most definitely mental.

I actually still stand by what I previously posted in this thread. He should have stayed with Joel. Despite the differences, together they still could produce more than the crap the Sixers and Net's are putting out right now.

Brett Brown sitting pretty in San Antonio, Doc looking like an ass.

Go figure.

[ImKobe]

Oh. My. God.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4jCXoR8ovA

Yup. He's already peaked as a scorer most likely but that's not why the Nets got him tbh. Him airballing layups might be the result of his back injury & not playing ball for over a year but he should get back to peak shape by the end of the season if he avoids further injury. He's still a very good player despite his ceiling offensively.

[Wally450]

People disagreed with me for even asking if he was a good player.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?504003-Why-do-people-think-Ben-Simmons-is-a-good-player/page2

Dude is straight up trash. F*ck whatever he gives you as a defender because he's absolutely god awful on the offensive end.

[fourkicks44]

Yup. He's already peaked as a scorer most likely but that's not why the Nets got him tbh. Him airballing layups might be the result of his back injury & not playing ball for over a year but he should get back to peak shape by the end of the season if he avoids further injury. He's still a very good player despite his ceiling offensively.

You are being way too kind.

He has some major mental issues, even his agent, family and himself agree.

[Axe]

Bust.

[noonereal]

He's entering his prime years and somehow he looks worse than he ever did.

He looks scared to drive in to the rim to even draw a little bit of contact. Is he scared of shooting free throws? And he's been incredibly passive. Showing no aggression at all, and just wants to play it safe every time he's on the court. Something's wrong with him psychologically

Clearly he does not want to play basketball.
It must be hell for him to go out there every other night.

[noonereal]

You are being way too kind.

He has some major mental issues, even his agent, family and himself agree.

Not major. He can function in society petty well.
He simply needs to shelter himself from the spotlight which is not possible as a professionL athlete.

Poor kid. To bad he can't make the same cash in way that keeps him pressure free.