Klay has 3 rings, so he's better than Beal, according to Pippen enthusiasts

[3ball]

2nd options don't dictate style of play like a 1st option and are closer to role players like Horry, so they don't get credit for rings the same way 1st options do... that means Pippen is ridiculously overrated and rated incorrectly.

No one says McHale > Ewing because of rings - only Pippen gets that treatment

[RRR3]

Klay is absolutely better than Devin Booker lmao wtf

Shut up OP.

[And1AllDay]

no duh

who tf thinks devin booker is better then klay thompson you drooling retart :oldlol:

[3ball]

no duh

who tf thinks devin booker is better then klay thompson you drooling retart :oldlol:


Changed the title to just Beal

The point remains - pippen is the only 2nd option that gets ranked ahead of superior players because of rings

No one says McHale > Ewing because of rings - only Pippen gets that treatment

[And1AllDay]

Changed the title to just Beal

The point remains - pippen is the only 2nd option that gets ranked ahead of superior players because of rings

No one says McHale > Ewing because of rings - only Pippen gets that treatment

i just want to see when either of these guys leads the team to 55 wins and 3rd in mvp votes

lemmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee know

[SouBeachTalents]

The 7 All-NBA & 10 All-Defensive selections might have something to do with it

[And1AllDay]

The 7 All-NBA & 10 All-Defensive selections might have something to do with it

[3ball]

The 7 All-NBA & 10 All-Defensive selections might have something to do with it


Who cares about the Rachel Nichols Clique Awards (media awards) - Pippen's accolades are due to the winning spotlight and being on the only 2-star dynasty

So media awards mean little because his actual PERFORMANCE exposes him as vastly overrated - show me a series in Pippen's career where you can say:

"Only about 30 guys in history played as well as Pippen did in that series - that's top 30 caliber"

He never played anywhere near top 30 and tons of guys that are ranked below him played far better than he ever played - Pippen's best series outside the 1st Round is 21/8/6 as 2nd option, which is top 300, not top 30




The 7 All-NBA & 10 All-Defensive selections might have something to do with it


Pippen was never a 20/10 guy or leading teams to the conference finals like KJ, nor was he #1 option on b2b champs like Worthy or dominating the playoffs on a Finals run like Kemp.. Basically everyone played far better than he ever did..

Pippen is just the low-producing bum that came along at the right time after the super-team 80's when only 2-stars were required to win (90's).. Anyone wins alongside the goat in a 2-star vs 2-star format.




The 7 All-NBA & 10 All-Defensive selections might have something to do with it


In the history of 3-pointer basketball, Pippen is one of the rare 2nd options on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP (true 2nd options), aka Rip Hamilton, Pippen, Klay, Jason Terry, Gasol, Horry..

Everyone else enjoyed elite 1st options and FMVP's as sidekick (1b's), so Jordan would have more rings if he had a "1b" sidekick instead of a true 2nd option like Pippen and inferior team defenses (Bulls had #7 defense during 1st three-peat, including inferior defenses to Finals and ECF opponents)

[3ball]

The 7 All-NBA & 10 All-Defensive selections might have something to do with it


Payton has more than that but he isn't viewed as better than Ewing

Furthermore, the same thing that unfairly puts Pippen over Payton and Ewing - rings - is the thing that gives Pippen the undeserved media awards

His actual performance doesn't warrant top 30 and basically anyone notable played far better than him

See my previous responses above for further detail

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Changed the title to just Beal

The point remains - pippen is the only 2nd option that gets ranked ahead of superior players because of rings

No one says McHale > Ewing because of rings - only Pippen gets that treatment


Klay is absolutely better than Devin Booker lmao wtf

Shut up OP.

I feel like he should of stuck with Booker. You think Klay has ever had a better regular season then Booker this season? I don't think so. Booker is way closer to the suns best player then Klay ever was the warriors best player. Having said that, i'm a pippen guy and would still take him over Beal\Booker.

[3ball]

I feel like he should of stuck with Booker. You think Klay has ever had a better regular season then Booker this season? I don't think so. Booker is way closer to the suns best player then Klay ever was the warriors best player. Having said that, i'm a pippen guy and would still take him over Beal\Booker.


Payton has more media awards (all-nba) but the same thing that unfairly puts Pippen over Payton and Ewing - rings - is the thing that gives Pippen the undeserved media awards that everyone rates him by.

Ultimately, his actual performance doesn't warrant top 30 and basically anyone notable played far better than him.. 22/8/5 and 2nd Round loss is a top 300 peak.. His career production rate (PER, etc) puts him at about 150

[Axe]

Wow, very convincing indeed...

Prediction: people will be saying Oubre > Klay at times this next season (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?487615-Prediction-people-will-be-saying-Oubre-gt-Klay-at-times-this-next-season)

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs


No one ever said McHale > Ewing because of rings - only Pippen gets that treatment.

The rings inflated Pippen in the rankings, which included media awards (all-nba).. Someone like Payton was a better scorer/passer/defender with more all-nba, but he's ranked below Pippen because of rings, which fueled a comparable media award tally for Pippen.

Ultimately, Pippen's actual performance doesn't warrant top 30... 22/8/5 and 2nd Round loss is a top 300 peak, while his career production rate (PER, etc) puts him at about 150..

In the history of 3-pointer basketball, Pippen is one of the rare 2nd options on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP (true 2nd options), aka Rip Hamilton, Pippen, Klay, Jason Terry, Gasol, Horry... So, only Jordan won a bunch of rings with true 2nd options and without super-teams
.

[iamgine]

Has 3ball ever convinced anyone with his misguided opinion?

[WhiteKyrie]

He is much better than Beal. More consistent. Less diva. Biggest difference? Klay plays high caliber on ball defense. And is a proven elite playoff performer in big moments and spots.

[hateraid]

Has 3ball ever convinced anyone with his misguided opinion?

Yup, mindless Jordanites like 2 much knowledge and Spurs m8

[ImKobe]

Beal probably has 3 rings as well if you put him in Klay's place on the Warriors. As much love as Klay gets on this board, he's had plenty of stinkers in the Playoffs over the years (2016 Finals, shot worse from 3 than Draymond in 2017 title run and averaged 15 ppg on 50.7%TS) and we've kind of overlooked them because the Warriors win anyway.

I'm not sure if Beal would show up in must-win games like Klay did, but maybe the Warriors wouldn't be down against OKC & Houston if they had Beal. He's definitely a much better all-around offensive player, imagine the looks he'd get playing in GS. Warriors should go after him in the off-season.

[LeCola]

Of course Klay is better. He could even be the best off ball offensive player history with great defence.

[tpols]

The 7 All-NBA & 10 All-Defensive selections might have something to do with it

That's all just from the winning spotlight. Klay has never come close to averaging 30+ ppg on elite efficiency. Only a troll would say he's better than Beal.

[DABIGSALSISHA]

That guy Thompson is a special player. ELITE.

I always thought Curry was the best GSW player but no, I was always wrong, Thompson is and an easy answer for that. He does on both ends of the floor very well. I even considered him MUCH better on defense guarding his position than the big mouth Draymond Green. Besides that, he relieves so much pressure off of Curry, it's just crazy what he can do.

He gained his final stripes with me on that Portland series a couple years back. Dude stopped Mc Collum and Lillard and destroyed Portland in that playoff. It was an unbelievable performance by him that made my jaw drop.

I'm an old school guy, but that guy Thompson is on my all time line up bench for sure. He earned his rings playing excellent defense and shooting extremely well overall. Yes, shooters have off nights but the guy can defend really well too so he is always important for his team. A true Teammate.

The warriors would easily be a 2nd-3rd seed with him healthy on the floor this season.

Beal? LOL He had a tough time beating the DeFrozen Raptors in the playoffs.

[DABIGSALSISHA]

He is much better than Beal. More consistent. Less diva. Biggest difference? Klay plays high caliber on ball defense. And is a proven elite playoff performer in big moments and spots.

100% on the money. Beal is flashy and that impresses a lot of people, especially the new generation of fans.

[8Ball]

2nd options don't dictate style of play like a 1st option and are closer to role players like Horry, so they don't get credit for rings the same way 1st options do... that means Pippen is ridiculously overrated and rated incorrectly.

No one says McHale > Ewing because of rings - only Pippen gets that treatment

Jordan is 0-5 and 1-9

[Bronbron23]

2nd options don't dictate style of play like a 1st option and are closer to role players like Horry, so they don't get credit for rings the same way 1st options do... that means Pippen is ridiculously overrated and rated incorrectly.

No one says McHale > Ewing because of rings - only Pippen gets that treatment

Well klay absolutely has a case for being better than beal. So what if beal puts up 30 on a shit team. Do you think he could do that on a winning one? If you throw beal on those warriors teams in place if klay he maybe scores a point or 2 more. The difference is klay can do it while needing the ball in hands much less which maximizes team movement and he's a much better defender.

[Mauzah]

Proving that you can fit and excel with a championship team matters you ****ing psycho.

[ELITEpower23]

Curry didn't go 1-9 without Klay so there's that. Jordan did because of the gaping hole without Pippen. Pippen leaves gaping holes everywhere.

[3ball]

Well klay absolutely has a case for being better than beal. So what if beal puts up 30 on a shit team. Do you think he could do that on a winning one? If you throw beal on those warriors teams in place if klay he maybe scores a point or 2 more. The difference is klay can do it while needing the ball in hands much less which maximizes team movement and he's a much better defender.


Pippen has no case over Ewing if we look at performance, yet Pippen is often ranked ahead of Ewing because of rings, which also enabled a comparable media award tally (all-nba)

The winning spotlight inflated Pippen and the stats support this.

Guys like KJ, Kemp, Payton, or Stockton all performed better than Pippen on an everyday basis, while destroying Pippen at their peaks - but again, rings gonna ring, so Pippen's accolades were inflated above theirs, particularly for new fans who evaluate historical players on paper (aka 6 rings)...

[ELITEpower23]

Has 3ball ever convinced anyone with his misguided opinion?

Not even once, he actually pushes most to the opposite which is hilarious and clever on his part. Hell, I'm still convinced he's an undercover LeBron stan and MJ hater at this point.

[3ball]

Not even once, he actually pushes most to the opposite which is hilarious and clever on his part. Hell, I'm still convinced he's an undercover LeBron stan and MJ hater at this point.


You and anyone saying that is simply unwilling to discuss basketball out of fear you'll get beat

You're scared to compete like your fake goat - you need a stacked deck or something like he needs?

[ELITEpower23]

You and anyone saying that is just a weak bitch unwilling to discuss basketball out of fear you'll get beat

You're scared to compete like your fake goat - you need a stacked deck or something like he needs?

Are you alright bud? It's Friday. Don't be an emotionally triggered twirp over basic facts.

[aj1987]

That's all just from the winning spotlight. Klay has never come close to averaging 30+ ppg on elite efficiency. Only a troll would say he's better than Beal.

Going by your "logic", Beal absolutely shits on almost every single version of Kobe as well. 31 PPG on 59% TS. You Brick stans want to use stats until you don't. It's hilarious. :oldlol:

[3ball]

Are you alright bud? It's Friday. Don't be an emotionally triggered twirp over basic facts.


What facts

[8Ball]

You and anyone saying that is simply unwilling to discuss basketball out of fear you'll get beat

You're scared to compete like your fake goat - you need a stacked deck or something like he needs?

Jordan is 0-5 and 1-9

[3ball]

Going by your "logic", Beal absolutely shits on almost every single version of Kobe as well. 31 PPG on 59% TS. You Brick stans want to use stats until you don't. It's hilarious. :oldlol:


2nd options have never gotten credit for rings, which is why guys like Klay or McHale aren't considered better than guys like Beal or Ewing just because they have rings

But Pippen is

That's the problem with Pippen (he's a 2nd option that gets credit for rings) and it proves that he's overrated..

[Bronbron23]

Pippen has no case over Ewing if we look at performance, yet Pippen is often ranked ahead of Ewing because of rings, which also enabled a comparable media award tally (all-nba)

The winning spotlight inflated Pippen and the stats support this.

Guys like KJ, Kemp, Payton, or Stockton all performed better than Pippen on an everyday basis, while destroying Pippen at their peaks - but again, rings gonna ring, so Pippen's accolades were inflated above theirs, particularly for new fans who evaluate historical players on paper (aka 6 rings)...

Well i don't disagree with the ewing and pip point in theory but it's not always as simple as that. Sometimes certain guys just fit better than someone else who might be more talented. While i agree that ewing is a better player in general i'm not sure he'd be a better fit for how the bulls played.

[SouBeachTalents]

Well i don't disagree with the ewing and pip point in theory but it's not always as simple as that. Sometimes certain guys just fit better than someone else who might be more talented. While i agree that ewing is a better player in general i'm not sure he'd be a better fit for how the bulls played.
Imo Ewing & Jordan sill definitely win a lot of chips together, but some of the other guys he compares Pippen to like Worthy, KJ, Coleman etc., the Bulls would do considerably worse with them in Pippen's place. OP just pretends things like defense aren't a factor in player evaluation :lol

[tpols]

Well i don't disagree with the ewing and pip point in theory but it's not always as simple as that. Sometimes certain guys just fit better than someone else who might be more talented. While i agree that ewing is a better player in general i'm not sure he'd be a better fit for how the bulls played.

Its totally absurd to think Ewing and MJ on the bulls wouldn't have destroyed a Pippen led Knicks team. It would literally be a sweep.

And '94 Ewing obliterated '94 pippen H2H with equal help.

[3ball]

Well i don't disagree with the ewing and pip point in theory but it's not always as simple as that. Sometimes certain guys just fit better than someone else who might be more talented. While i agree that ewing is a better player in general i'm not sure he'd be a better fit for how the bulls played.


Jordan could've won chips with less personal production if he had a dominant big like Kobe did for his 5 rings

the triangle was a post offense that ideally had a post big man - this is common knowledge and Phil or Text said this all the time.

So the Bulls were suboptimal by not having that post big man - Jordan played that role when needed during the 1st three-peat and eventually became the best post player in basketball during the 2nd three-peat.

Essentially, Jordan could fill any type of scoring need and wouldn't lose with a goat-shooting center that peaked at 30/12 with 4.0 blocks and made multiple Finals without any star teammates in his career. .

[Smoke117]

1-9

[3ball]

1-9



the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas got 2 years of seasoning in the lottery before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as high-seeded favorites in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won.

Otoh, rookie Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as an 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win.

[Smoke117]

the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas got 2 years of seasoning in the lottery before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as high-seeded favorites in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won.

Otoh, rookie Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as an 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win.

No Pip, No Chip.

[3ball]

No Pip, No Chip.


No super-team no chip for Lebron

:dancin:

[SouBeachTalents]

No super-team no chip for Lebron

:dancin:
LeBron won a chip with Wade averaging 16 ppg in the playoffs, worse than Pippen ever did

[8Ball]

LeBron won a chip with Wade averaging 16 ppg in the playoffs, worse than Pippen ever did

Jordan got swept in 1st round with 23 ppg teammate.

[RRR3]

No super-team no chip for Lebron

:dancin:
Pretty hard to call the 2020 Lakers a superteam.

[Bronbron23]

Imo Ewing & Jordan sill definitely win a lot of chips together, but some of the other guys he compares Pippen to like Worthy, KJ, Coleman etc., the Bulls would do considerably worse with them in Pippen's place. OP just pretends things like defense aren't a factor in player evaluation :lol

Yeah dude is to much with his mj takes and mj is my guy.

[Bronbron23]

Its totally absurd to think Ewing and MJ on the bulls wouldn't have destroyed a Pippen led Knicks team. It would literally be a sweep.

And '94 Ewing obliterated '94 pippen H2H with equal help.

Yeah maybe. I don't disagree but i don't know what that proves. The question is was a ewing a better fit than pip with mj and bulls? I don't know if he was with how the bulls played. I mean i'm splitting hairs here and mj and ewing still win alot of chips i'm just not sure they'd be better.

[insight]

Beal is struggling to get into the playoff tournament and has no playoff accomplishments. Klay and Beal should not even be mentioned in the same sentence.

[3ball]

Pretty hard to call the 2020 Lakers a superteam.


Hard to say Pippen > AD

So lebron either needed a super-team or he needed to be the "pippen" to AD - AD led the NBA in playoff scoring and led Lakers all year.

Btw, 3 perennial all-stars or 2 guys that are perennial top 5 players = super-team.. So lebron only won with super-teams

[RRR3]

DUHHHHHHHH HURRRRRR DURRRRRR!!!!
:roll:

[3ball]

The question is was a ewing a better fit than pip with mj and bulls?




^^^ False

the question is whether Ewing was better than Pippen, which he was

But Pippen is ranked higher due to rings, which also inflated his media awards

Ultimately, Pippen is the only 2nd option that gets credit for rings, so he's ranked over Ewing, similar to if Klay was ranked higher than Beal (due to rings)






I don't know if he was with how the bulls played





the triangle was a post offense that ideally had a post big man, so why wouldn't Ewing fit?

Kobe won 5 rings with a dominant big, and neither Shaq not Gasol could shoot like Ewing






fit better than pip with mj and bulls





Jordan led assisted 33% more often than Pippen in the playoffs, while doubling his scoring and getting more DPOY votes every year - that isn't optimal on any team (goat load), so Jordan won in spite of Pippen's trash production






fit better than pip with mj and bulls




In the history of 3-pointer basketball, Pippen is one of the rare 2nd options on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP (true 2nd options), aka Rip Hamilton, Pippen, Klay, Jason Terry, Gasol, Horry..

Everyone else enjoyed elite 1st options and FMVP's as sidekick (1b's), so Jordan would have more rings if he had a "1b" sidekick instead of a true 2nd option like Pippen and inferior team defenses (Bulls had #7 defense during 1st three-peat, including inferior defenses to Finals and ECF opponents)

[1987_Lakers]

1-9

[3ball]

1-9



the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas got 2 years of seasoning in the lottery before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as high-seeded favorites in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won.

Otoh, rookie Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as an 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win.

[ELITEpower23]

LeBron won a chip with Wade averaging 16 ppg in the playoffs, worse than Pippen ever did

And that right there is the knockout punch. If Wade at 16 ppg is a super team I wonder what Pippen is at 17 ppg (and during a slower era with fewer possessions). See 3ball, you have to be a pro LeBron undercover fan because nothing you say ever helps your fake cause that the fake GOAT MJ is better than LeBron when he clearly isn't.

[ShawkFactory]

the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas got 2 years of seasoning in the lottery before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as high-seeded favorites in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won.

Otoh, rookie Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as an 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win.
Didn’t require a super team to win more games than you lost.

[Axe]

Curry didn't go 1-9 without Klay so there's that. Jordan did because of the gaping hole without Pippen. Pippen leaves gaping holes everywhere.
Curry never made the postseason tho in the last decade without klay.

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/13R9CS6n/mike-had-a-stimmy.png

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs


Pippen was barely top 50 in 1996, and dozens of new guys have passed him since, such as Giannis, Kobe, Curry or Kawhi.. So it's impossible for him to be top 30 today.

Pippen gets overrated because new fans must do on-paper evaluations of players in previous eras, so Pippen's 6 rings stand out against Giannis or Ewing's 0 rings..

Accordingly, Pippen is one of the most mis-ranked players of all time.. He gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option - so imagine if Klay was ranked above Booker or Beal due to rings - that's unfair, but Pippen gets overrated like this (given credit for rings like he's a 1st option).

[3ball]

no duh

who tf thinks devin booker is better then klay thompson you drooling retart :oldlol:


:kobe:... 3ball is always right

[3ball]

Klay is absolutely better than Devin Booker lmao wtf

Shut up OP.


:kobe:... 3ball is always right

You were wrong about Ingram too and basically everything

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/13R9CS6n/mike-had-a-stimmy.png

is there no 1 else?

[hateraid]

Has 3ball ever convinced anyone with his misguided opinion?

I think he even lost the MJ crowd minus 2muchknowledge with his piss poor Pippen take

[97 bulls]

Well i don't disagree with the ewing and pip point in theory but it's not always as simple as that. Sometimes certain guys just fit better than someone else who might be more talented. While i agree that ewing is a better player in general i'm not sure he'd be a better fit for how the bulls played.
If Ewing took Pippen place, yes the Bulls have multiple championships. But then 3ball would make a 1001 threads calling Ewing a bum and argue how much better Pippen wouldve made the Bulls with his skill set. You can’t win.

[Axe]

If Ewing took Pippen place, yes the Bulls have multiple championships. But then 3ball would make a 1001 threads calling Ewing a bum and argue how much better Pippen wouldve made the Bulls with his skill set. You can’t win.
It seems he would just immaturely roast any player acting as a second option to jordan

[Joey Turnbuckle]

I would rather have Klay Thompson than Bradley Beal

[Bronbron23]

I would rather have Klay Thompson than Bradley Beal

All day long

[3ball]

If Ewing took Pippen place, yes the Bulls have multiple championships. But then 3ball would make a 1001 threads calling Ewing a bum and argue how much better Pippen wouldve made the Bulls with his skill set. You can’t win.


Ewing played great and at a high level, so no

I knock Pippen because he didn't play that well, while Ewing or Giannis play dimensions better

For example, Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the entire 2nd three-peat - he's on the all-nba worst playoff performer team.. He had a .500 ballclub in 95' before MJ returned to carry him to another 3-peat.. Ewing was far superior to this, so I wouldn't need to knock Ewing..

[3ball]

I think he even lost the MJ crowd minus 2muchknowledge with his piss poor Pippen take


It isn't an "argument" or a "take" - I'm informing you of the historical record

Pippen was barely top 50 in 1996, and dozens of new guys have passed him since, such as Giannis, Kobe, Curry or Kawhi.. So it's impossible for him to be top 30 today.

Pippen gets overrated because new fans must do on-paper evaluations of players in previous eras, so Pippen's 6 rings stand out against Giannis or Ewing's 0 rings..

Accordingly, Pippen is one of the most mis-ranked players of all time.. He gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option - so imagine if Klay was ranked above Booker due to rings - that's unfair, but Pippen gets overrated like this (given credit for rings like he's a 1st option).

[Shooter]

Jordan has 6 rings, so he's not automatically better than LeBron, according to Jordan enthusiasts

[aj1987]

2nd options have never gotten credit for rings, which is why guys like Klay or McHale aren't considered better than guys like Beal or Ewing just because they have rings

But Pippen is

That's the problem with Pippen (he's a 2nd option that gets credit for rings) and it proves that he's overrated..

Why are you quoting me, you autistic ****?

1-9, BTW.

[And1AllDay]

I think he even lost the MJ crowd minus 2muchknowledge with his piss poor Pippen take

issssssssa fact


3baLLLLLLLLLLLLL is dirtying up mikes legacy. most thought mike was goat until 3baLLLLLLLLLL got too loud and lefam started to uncover the secrets

mike is good, nothing special. top 10. bean is better