Do you believe in God?

[Patrick Chewing]

Simple Yes or No

[Chick Stern]

which one?

[Rolando]

God is irrelevent.

If you believe the Universe requires a creator or prime mover or whatever.....That's fine. Have at it. How the Universe began and how the laws of nature were determined is and probably will remain a mystery. Enjoy your belief in God.

However, if you actually believe that a God exists that regularly interacts and takes part in the day-to-day reality of this universe, you are sadly mistaken. There never has been evidence of this. Ancient, pre-Judeo Christian, peoples understood this fact. Higher level religious people pray to the "Saints" if they want to see some action. Indigenous people pray to the "gods" or spirits. Ancient Greeks and Romans did the same.

The all knowing, all powerful, creator......If "He" ever did exist and interact with this world, it was only at the very, very begining of time.

[Patrick Chewing]

God is irrelevent.

If you believe the Universe requires a creator or prime mover or whatever.....That's fine. Have at it. How the Universe began and how the laws of nature were determined is and probably will remain a mystery. Enjoy your belief in God.

However, if you actually believe that a God exists that regularly interacts and takes part in the day-to-day reality of this universe, you are sadly mistaken. There never has been evidence of this. Ancient, pre-Judeo Christian, peoples understood this fact. Higher level religious people pray to the "Saints" if they want to see some action. Indigenous people pray to the "gods" or spirits. Ancient Greeks and Romans did the same.

The all knowing, all powerful, creator......If "He" ever did exist and interact with this world, it was only at the very, very begining of time.

I would argue that God is very relevant for those that perceive him/her/it to be the creator of the Universe and not much else. God is very relevant even if he/she/it is perceived as "intelligent design" that we cannot fathom or begin to understand, and not some simplistic humanoid figure. There is so much evidence of intelligent design running through our bodies and in our own world to pass it off as anything but intelligent design. If we can accept this throughout society, then we can accept God. Just my two cents.

[FultzNationRISE]

I believe some form of consciousness exists outside the physical human experience. My conclusion is that it logically has to. Whether it’s the consciousness of a God/creator, or whether it’s my own consciousness in a different state, or whatever other possibility.

“Stuff” like a Universe does not just spontaneously exist with no context. It simply doesnt make sense, and in fact current scientific evidence essentially CONFIRMS existence is tied to consciousness.

It’s not about wanting to believe, I actually dont really care. Im speaking strictly on logical grounds. A lot of people get very defensive about this because they think “religion hates gay people” or etc, and are in a rush to undermine a rival social institution rather than think about the topic objectively.

You can hate religion all you want and you can question the historical accuracy of religious books etc. But to assert “there is no God” and the only possibility is that humans die and decompose with no context and there is nothing outside the observable universe... is actually scientifically irrational.

But again you would have to be interested in and current on science for the sake of enjoying science, to realize that. Not just handpicking a few scientific ideas, some of which are outdated, to discredit rival political groups and proclaim the superiority of progressives.

[FultzNationRISE]

I would argue that God is very relevant for those that perceive him/her/it to be the creator of the Universe and not much else. God is very relevant even if he/she/it is perceived as "intelligent design" that we cannot fathom or begin to understand, and not some simplistic humanoid figure. There is so much evidence of intelligent design running through our bodies and in our own world to pass it off as anything but intelligent design. If we can accept this throughout society, then we can accept God. Just my two cents.

Religion and science are just alternate approaches to understanding the same questions. Both are very dependent on perception.

Religion sticks to an ancient source which doesnt change (the fact it doesnt change neither makes it right or wrong, thats just the approach). Science is rooted in facts that are constantly changing amd being updated and revised. Intuitively this seems cleaner and more likely to result in accuracy, because youre always removing information that no longer adds up. Yet, after hundreds of years of scientific study and contemplation, we dont have any clearer answers to the most basic questions. And we’re discovering that even scientific “facts” are prone to change regularly as new methods of experiment come into play.

Like with anything else, peoples preferences exist on a spectrum. Some people like the religious approach, some like the science approach. At the end of the day, theyre just opposite sides of the same coin.

[Chick Stern]

I would argue that God is very relevant for those that perceive him/her/it to be the creator of the Universe and not much else. God is very relevant even if he/she/it is perceived as "intelligent design" that we cannot fathom or begin to understand, and not some simplistic humanoid figure. There is so much evidence of intelligent design running through our bodies and in our own world to pass it off as anything but intelligent design. If we can accept this throughout society, then we can accept God. Just my two cents.
There really is not evidence of intelligent design.
Because the central mechanism of Intelligent Design is untestable, evidence relevant to the idea is lacking. However, some ID proponents have made testable claims that deal more with discrediting evolution than with the mechanism of Intelligent Design. These claims (e.g., that the components of bacterial flagella cannot function independently of one another) have been tested and refuted by the evidence.

[rawimpact]

I believe in RawImpactism.

[Jasper]

do you believe an old mighty is not an alien ?

[diamenz]

define 'god'. i can't think of a more ambiguous term. if we're referring to the all-knowing invisible man in the sky with a white robe & beard tallying our every good and bad deed, then no - don't believe in god. there's no evidence of it. i'd love to able to believe that we travel to some higher plane when we die and see all of our loved ones again, but without any evidence it's very, very far fetched. our existence as humans, animals, insects, dinosaurs, microbes... the existence of life period is all a mistake of chance in an unexplainable vast universe probably trillions of years old.

[Norcaliblunt]

I believe in Gods. There isn’t just one.

[Rolando]

I believe in Gods. There isn’t just one.

This is, historically, the most common human belief. I also lean in this direction. However, I prefer to refer to them as "spirits". "Gods" is simply too full of potential misunderstanding...too much baggage.

[tpols]

God is irrelevent.

If you believe the Universe requires a creator or prime mover or whatever.....That's fine. Have at it. How the Universe began and how the laws of nature were determined is and probably will remain a mystery. Enjoy your belief in God.

However, if you actually believe that a God exists that regularly interacts and takes part in the day-to-day reality of this universe, you are sadly mistaken. There never has been evidence of this. Ancient, pre-Judeo Christian, peoples understood this fact. Higher level religious people pray to the "Saints" if they want to see some action. Indigenous people pray to the "gods" or spirits. Ancient Greeks and Romans did the same.

The all knowing, all powerful, creator......If "He" ever did exist and interact with this world, it was only at the very, very begining of time.

This.



Epicurus' trilemma

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

[Axe]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVxYrbGllbNPjVJBRyLTMKUR_NuvPxt L7aDQ&usqp=CAU

[tpols]

I believe some form of consciousness exists outside the physical human experience. My conclusion is that it logically has to. Whether it’s the consciousness of a God/creator, or whether it’s my own consciousness in a different state, or whatever other possibility.

“Stuff” like a Universe does not just spontaneously exist with no context. It simply doesnt make sense, and in fact current scientific evidence essentially CONFIRMS existence is tied to consciousness.

It’s not about wanting to believe, I actually dont really care. Im speaking strictly on logical grounds. A lot of people get very defensive about this because they think “religion hates gay people” or etc, and are in a rush to undermine a rival social institution rather than think about the topic objectively.

You can hate religion all you want and you can question the historical accuracy of religious books etc. But to assert “there is no God” and the only possibility is that humans die and decompose with no context and there is nothing outside the observable universe... is actually scientifically irrational.

But again you would have to be interested in and current on science for the sake of enjoying science, to realize that. Not just handpicking a few scientific ideas, some of which are outdated, to discredit rival political groups and proclaim the superiority of progressives.

Religous people acting like God is scrutinizing each and every action of 8 billion humans on a chalkboard with a tally, determining whether each individual goes to some magical paradise or some burning inferno is a pretty absurd proposition. Its much more likely life is just a continuous cycle of living, dying, and being recycled... as we see with nature every year.

[FultzNationRISE]

Religous people acting like God is scrutinizing each and every action of 8 billion humans on a chalkboard with a tally, determining whether each individual goes to some magical paradise or some burning inferno is a pretty absurd proposition. Its much more likely life is just a continuous cycle of living, dying, and being recycled... as we see with nature every year.

That may be how we perceive it while we are conscious in our current context. But what if we ARE in a ‘matrix’ of perception, and something outside this world exists which our consciousness is drawing from? And ofc this does not solve the problem anyhow. Where does THAT world come from?

Or, perhaps we ARE mere dust and bones, and you and me and everyone here will permanently lose consciousness when we die and decomposes into irrelevance. But if the physical universe continues to exist afterward... how did it get here? It’s easy to take for granted that stars and planets and the elements themselves “just exist.” But existing with no objective context is not rational. There may be a context we cant understand currently and may never understand, but for them to “just exist” full stop, with NEITHER scientific nor supernatural explanation as to how?? It actually defies logic. In fact it’s a scientific principle matter is not created from nothing. So how did stuff get here? If it Big Banged onto the scene, what was its context before that? And what about even before THAT?

It’s easy and perhaps intuitive to infer “it’s all meaningless” because we have some scientific explanations for cellular biology and cosmic occurrences that dont involve mystical narratives, and meanwhile there is no “voice from heaven” that calls down each day to us.

But the fact that any kind of STUFF exists is inherently NOT meaningless. In fact it is actually, ibso facto, HUGELY meaningful.

The question is... WHAT IN THE FCK DOES IT MEAN!?! :biggums:

[Code Breaker]

I’m Agnostic I used to wonder all the time if there were a God or creator and what was the purpose of life and etc. I have no issue or problems with religious people. For many people it’s great it gives people structure in life. For me I find no need for it in my life. Whether there’s a God or not is something that is much bigger than us humans to even comprehend. I still have to work and provide for myself, travel, go vacation and just enjoy life. We don’t have a lot of time of this giant floating rock in space.

[Chick Stern]

Whenever life gets you down, Mrs.Brown
And things seem hard or tough
And people are stupid, obnoxious or daft
And you feel that you've had quite enough

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power

The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour
Of the galaxy we call the 'milky way'

Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide

We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point
We go 'round every two hundred million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, the speed of light, you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is

So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
'Cause it's bugger all down here on Earth

[Draz]

For sure. There's something of higher power existing. There's no way something came out of nothing.

[Kungfro]

Religous people acting like God is scrutinizing each and every action of 8 billion humans on a chalkboard with a tally, determining whether each individual goes to some magical paradise or some burning inferno is a pretty absurd proposition. Its much more likely life is just a continuous cycle of living, dying, and being recycled... as we see with nature every year.

Fultz's views on god seem to have less to do with religion and more to do with a misinformed view of quantum mechanics, specifically the observer effect. From what I've been able to gather from his posts, God is some kind of conscious observer that enables reality to exist, or something like that, I don't want to put words in his mouth. Maybe that is the case, but to assert that this is the only logical conclusion one could make from our current scientific understanding of the universe is straight up wrong.

[Patrick Chewing]

Yeah take the religious aspect of God out of the equation. Were we created by a higher power of unfathomable intelligence or not? To me, the belief that we are just here by happenstance holds no weight. We are intelligent enough to question our very own existence and origins and intelligent enough to alter our reality as we see fit. That says a whole lot to our construction and blueprint as a species.

[warriorfan]

The only thing more unbelievable than god is the notion that everything we know came from nothing.

[FultzNationRISE]

Fultz's views on god seem to have less to do with religion and more to do with a misinformed view of quantum mechanics, specifically the observer effect. From what I've been able to gather from his posts, God is some kind of conscious observer that enables reality to exist, or something like that, I don't want to put words in his mouth. Maybe that is the case, but to assert that this is the only logical conclusion one could make from our current scientific understanding of the universe is straight up wrong.

I believe youre conflating two separate points Im making.

I’m not stating that a conscious observer is what “creates” the existence of energy and particles etc. That may or may not be true. But we know a conscious observer is necessary to SHAPE physical particles. Their properties dont have defined features until they are observed. Otherwise they exist only as abstract waves, or “probabilities.”

Youre right that this alone doesnt by necessity mean a conscious observer “must” exist. But my point is, the fact an observer is necessary to give particles form is very suggestive of some eternal rule or dynamic involving a conscious observer, and not just a happy coincidence that only came to pass when life sprung up on earth. Why would observation be involved in the LAWS of physics (as we know them), if observation has only been possible for the tiniest fraction of universal existence?

And then my other point is that regardless, where would even just the latent energy of unobserved particles originally come from? There has to be “something” that existed before any of the stuff we can conceptualize (time and space etc). Whats crazy is that it’s hard to imagine consciousness could exist without physical context... yet we also know physical context cant exist without consciousness. So they seem to be a package deal. Yet still, the impossible question is where do they come from??

[Chick Stern]

I believe youre conflating two separate points Im making.

I’m not stating that a conscious observer is what “creates” the existence of energy and particles etc. That may or may not be true. But we know a conscious observer is necessary to SHAPE physical particles. Their properties dont have defined features until they are observed. Otherwise they exist only as abstract waves, or “probabilities.”

Youre right that this alone doesnt by necessity mean a conscious observer “must” exist. But my point is, the fact an observer is necessary to give particles form is very suggestive of some eternal rule or dynamic involving a conscious observer, and not just a happy coincidence that only came to pass when life sprung up on earth. Why would observation be involved in the LAWS of physics (as we know them), if observation has only been possible for the tiniest fraction of universal existence?

And then my other point is that regardless, where would even just the latent energy of unobserved particles originally come from? There has to be “something” that existed before any of the stuff we can conceptualize (time and space etc). Whats crazy is that it’s hard to imagine consciousness could exist without physical context... yet we also know physical context cant exist without consciousness. So they seem to be a package deal. Yet still, the impossible question is where do they come from??
You keep leaning on the “laws of physics”, but data has shown that these laws do not apply at the quantum level. It’s a whole new ball game. Additionally, results from quantum experiments hint that there may be more dimensions than we are aware of.
Suggest you dive into “Flatland”, a very old book that helps explain things well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

[Kungfro]

I believe youre conflating two separate points Im making.

I’m not stating that a conscious observer is what “creates” the existence of energy and particles etc. That may or may not be true. But we know a conscious observer is necessary to SHAPE physical particles. Their properties dont have defined features until they are observed. Otherwise they exist only as abstract waves, or “probabilities.”

Youre right that this alone doesnt by necessity mean a conscious observer “must” exist. But my point is, the fact an observer is necessary to give particles form is very suggestive of some eternal rule or dynamic involving a conscious observer, and not just a happy coincidence that only came to pass when life sprung up on earth. Why would observation be involved in the LAWS of physics (as we know them), if observation has only been possible for the tiniest fraction of universal existence?

And then my other point is that regardless, where would even just the latent energy of unobserved particles originally come from? There has to be “something” that existed before any of the stuff we can conceptualize (time and space etc). Whats crazy is that it’s hard to imagine consciousness could exist without physical context... yet we also know physical context cant exist without consciousness. So they seem to be a package deal. Yet still, the impossible question is where do they come from??

The problem I have is that I don't agree with your premise that a "conscious" observer is required to shape particles as you say. This opinion that an observer must be conscious is a minority view in the scientific community as far as I understand.

[Gohan]

this thread was made for me to post in it. we have some straight up fools in this thread. God is very real and his wrath will come upon the world soon enough. the universe was created by god and the dumb ass educational system, that also approves of sex before marriage, tries to act like the universe came from nothing or by chance. That is just a strong delusion that is sent by god. he is very real and i would recommend yall repenting before it is too late.

excuse my punctuation and grammar i was angry after reading this thread

[Smoke117]

1-9

[FultzNationRISE]

The problem I have is that I don't agree with your premise that a "conscious" observer is required to shape particles as you say. This opinion that an observer must be conscious is a minority view in the scientific community as far as I understand.


:biggums:


You are completely wrong. "Schroedinger's Cat" is one of the most well known and well accepted premises in physics. This is BASIC quantum mechanics.

"Until a particle is measured or observed, it exists in all the states it could possibly be in."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjaAxUO6-Uw


Instead of backtracking from "Fultz is wrong, he doesnt understand the science, and did I mention he's WRONG?" to "I dont agree with your premise, this is a minority view, well as far as I understand"... just go ahead admit you were wrong and apologize.

It's okay. I'm wrong too sometimes. You just have to own it when it happens. That's all.

[Gohan]

im the only one right in this thread

[Axe]

1-9
Lol wut?

[Rolando]

this thread was made for me to post in it. we have some straight up fools in this thread. God is very real and his wrath will come upon the world soon enough. the universe was created by god and the dumb ass educational system, that also approves of sex before marriage, tries to act like the universe came from nothing or by chance. That is just a strong delusion that is sent by god. he is very real and i would recommend yall repenting before it is too late.

excuse my punctuation and grammar i was angry after reading this thread

Your picture of God says a lot about who you are. The things which you believe offends God are things which offend you. This insecuritiy, the need for acknowledgement, obedience, and repentence.....these are your insecurities and needs. It is good for you to explore your vision of God as it is an exercise in self-examination.

In contrast to you, I have developed a picture of God with a very distant, hands-off approach. A creator with basically no real role or interest in the unfolding of time and the universe....Like you, this most likely has a lot to do with my own psychology and how I see the world.

[diamenz]

this thread was made for me to post in it. we have some straight up fools in this thread. God is very real and his wrath will come upon the world soon enough. the universe was created by god and the dumb ass educational system, that also approves of sex before marriage, tries to act like the universe came from nothing or by chance. That is just a strong delusion that is sent by god. he is very real and i would recommend yall repenting before it is too late.

excuse my punctuation and grammar i was angry after reading this thread

pr00f???

[welfarefan]

I believe in the opposite of whatever my biggest bullies on ISH believe in. If Simon says dont jump, I say say jump. Let that sink in :lol

[Jasper]

the thought process that a god has a human appearance and wears a white robe - could be true.

But then so could the fact that our universe is inside his ***** and our solar system is just another sperm.

[Chick Stern]

this thread was made for me to post in it. we have some straight up fools in this thread. God is very real and his wrath will come upon the world soon enough. the universe was created by god and the dumb ass educational system, that also approves of sex before marriage, tries to act like the universe came from nothing or by chance. That is just a strong delusion that is sent by god. he is very real and i would recommend yall repenting before it is too late.

excuse my punctuation and grammar i was angry after reading this thread

So you believe in the trickster god

https://wikireligions.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Featured-Image-88.jpg

[FultzNationRISE]

You keep leaning on the “laws of physics”, but data has shown that these laws do not apply at the quantum level. It’s a whole new ball game.

I'm specifically talking about quantum physics, which is obvious from the context of my statements. Are you injecting this just to let us know you know it differs from classical newtonian physics?


Additionally, results from quantum experiments hint that there may be more dimensions than we are aware of.
Suggest you dive into “Flatland”, a very old book that helps explain things well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

I'm aware there are likely more dimensions than humans are biologically evolved to perceive. That's... completely immaterial to the discussion here.


The big scientific mystery is why you create new accounts virtually every other WEEK, just to spout the same incoherent gibberish?? You keep creating more and more accounts, even though the previous ones aren't even banned. You just keep creating more and more and more alts for producing the same exact shtick :lol

You're not well my guy. You're obviously operating with some faulty mechanics under the hood.

I think your wiring could use a Great Reset.

And I think you're in lucky because there happens to be one coming :cheers:

[Phoenix]

Some level of being beyond what we can perceive, I can get on-board with it. I don't believe it, but I have no strong affinity against it either. It doesn't matter. But God as he's depicted by many religions, something to worship. ask for forgiveness or beg for favor...sounds like a being I wouldn't want to pray to. Judgemental and vindictive. The concept of 'God' is a human construct based around mankind's need to have everything explained to them. Some shit we just ain't meant to understand and if we were, we would have by now. To me, when a newborn can die from an illness and someone of low moral character can become rich and powerful in this world....it just speaks to a random, cold and chaotic universe.

[Gohan]

So you believe in the trickster god

https://wikireligions.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Featured-Image-88.jpg

No he sends the delusion to people who refuse to love the truth. The truth is simply Jesus Christ

[Code Breaker]

Some level of being beyond what we can perceive, I can get on-board with it. I don't believe it, but I have no strong affinity against it either. It doesn't matter. But God as he's depicted by many religions, something to worship. ask for forgiveness or beg for favor...sounds like a being I wouldn't want to pray to. Judgemental and vindictive. The concept of 'God' is a human construct based around mankind's need to have everything explained to them. Some shit we just ain't meant to understand and if we were, we would have by now. To me, when a newborn can die from an illness and someone of low moral character can become rich and powerful in this world....it just speaks to a random, cold and chaotic universe.

Exactly why I'm agnostic. :applause:

[SATAN]

OP's threads made me an atheist

[RRR3]

OP's threads made me an atheist
No intelligent god would create OP, that’s for sure.

[Patrick Chewing]

No intelligent god would create OP, that’s for sure.

You're an atheist anarchist so your opinion in this thread is moot and irrelevant.

You honestly think God would be pleased with you?? :lol

[Kungfro]

:biggums:


You are completely wrong. "Schroedinger's Cat" is one of the most well known and well accepted premises in physics. This is BASIC quantum mechanics.

"Until a particle is measured or observed, it exists in all the states it could possibly be in."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjaAxUO6-Uw


Instead of backtracking from "Fultz is wrong, he doesnt understand the science, and did I mention he's WRONG?" to "I dont agree with your premise, this is a minority view, well as far as I understand"... just go ahead admit you were wrong and apologize.

It's okay. I'm wrong too sometimes. You just have to own it when it happens. That's all.

Yeah everyone is familiar with Schroedinger's Cat. What we're in a disagreement in about is the "observer". You seem to have taken the more colloquial definition of the term, which would require consciousness. Observer or measurement are used interchangeably in physics and refer merely to a physical process. This is what Heisenberg had to say on the subject.

Of course the introduction of the observer must not be misunderstood to imply that some kind of subjective features are to be brought into the description of nature. The observer has, rather, only the function of registering decisions, i.e., processes in space and time, and it does not matter whether the observer is an apparatus or a human being; but the registration, i.e., the transition from the "possible" to the "actual," is absolutely necessary here and cannot be omitted from the interpretation of quantum theory.

The role of consciousness in Quantum Mechanics is not well understood, so when you claim that "in fact current scientific evidence essentially CONFIRMS existence is tied to consciousness", that's a statement of knowledge that you simply can't back up. You've gone away from legitimate science and are now delving into "quantum woo" in order to justify your god belief. Maybe god does exist, but you're not gonna find an answer in quantum physics, at least given our current limited understanding.

[Overdrive]

For sure. There's something of higher power existing. There's no way something came out of nothing.


The only thing more unbelievable than god is the notion that everything we know came from nothing.

None of the theories suggest that something came out of nothing. They suggest that this something was condensed into a tiny singular point in empty space - simply put.

[Chick Stern]

I'm specifically talking about quantum physics, which is obvious from the context of my statements. Are you injecting this just to let us know you know it differs from classical newtonian physics?



I'm aware there are likely more dimensions than humans are biologically evolved to perceive. That's... completely immaterial to the discussion here.


The big scientific mystery is why you create new accounts virtually every other WEEK, just to spout the same incoherent gibberish?? You keep creating more and more accounts, even though the previous ones aren't even banned. You just keep creating more and more and more alts for producing the same exact shtick :lol

You're not well my guy. You're obviously operating with some faulty mechanics under the hood.

I think your wiring could use a Great Reset.

And I think you're in lucky because there happens to be one coming :cheers:
https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/amazing-everything-you-just-said-was-wrong-gif-3.gif

[FultzNationRISE]

Yeah everyone is familiar with Schroedinger's Cat. What we're in a disagreement in about is the "observer". You seem to have taken the more colloquial definition of the term, which would require consciousness. Observer or measurement are used interchangeably in physics and refer merely to a physical process. This is what Heisenberg had to say on the subject.


The role of consciousness in Quantum Mechanics is not well understood, so when you claim that "in fact current scientific evidence essentially CONFIRMS existence is tied to consciousness", that's a statement of knowledge that you simply can't back up. You've gone away from legitimate science and are now delving into "quantum woo" in order to justify your god belief. Maybe god does exist, but you're not gonna find an answer in quantum physics, at least given our current limited understanding.

I think it is actually you who is misinterpreting the statement of Heisenberg.

When he speaks of not introducing the subjective nature of an observer, I believe he’s pointing out the theory does not suggest the observer himself selects or decides the outcome. But he’s clear on the fact that OBTAINING an outcome does in fact require an observer.

So IF we accept that - and all of mainstream science does - then we would have to admit that until sentient beings evolved on Earth, the solar system, and indeed any part of the Universe without sentient life (the vast majority of it) must not have objectively existed?? Because what observer could there have been??

Some theories posit that all possible realities exist simultaneously, and the conscious observer essentially moves in time across a field of infinite possibilities, cutting a swath of selected outcomes sort of like mowing a strip in a cornfield.

But again we must be clear: The current science requires that nothing specific exists without an observer. Only an infinite number of possibilities existing simultaneously. Without a conscious observer, planets and stars shouldnt actually have specific, defined physical properties. They dont exist the way we see them, UNLESS we see them.

That is unless they can somehow exist on a macro level DESPITE the rules of quantum mechanics implying they dont. Which seems like a hard thing to fathom, tho I grant anything is possible.

[FultzNationRISE]

https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/amazing-everything-you-just-said-was-wrong-gif-3.gif

Oh, ok.

Well Im glad to hear that then.

[Fosterburto]

Yes I do. I'm a Catholic, though not a practicing one currently. Believing that there is a God has given me the comfort I need to help me through difficult phases in my life. I can't imagine not having faith. On the other side of being a Catholic, there is always that darn guilt shit to deal with. Why do I believe? Because to not believe would be quite devastating to my mind.

[Chick Stern]

Yes I do. I'm a Catholic, though not a practicing one currently. Believing that there is a God has given me the comfort I need to help me through difficult phases in my life. I can't imagine not having faith. On the other side of being a Catholic, there is always that darn guilt shit to deal with. Why do I believe? Because to not believe would be quite devastating to my mind.
I would postulate that you believe because it was washed into your brain at a young impressionable age.

[Chick Stern]

For sure. There's something of higher power existing. There's no way something came out of nothing.


The only thing more unbelievable than god is the notion that everything we know came from nothing.


None of the theories suggest that something came out of nothing. They suggest that this something was condensed into a tiny singular point in empty space - simply put.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46sKeycH3bE

[Gohan]

I swear people are stupid if they think the universe came from nothing or just by chance

[Chick Stern]

No he sends the delusion to people who refuse to love the truth. The truth is simply Jesus Christ
You stated that god sends strong delusions. Why would a god need to delude people? I thought that was the devil’s role?

strong delusion that is sent by god.

Isn’t it amazing that you were raised in the ‘one true faith’?
How lucky are you?!

[Patrick Chewing]

Taking inventory here, but who are the ones that say they don't believe in God because they can't see him??

[BigKobeFan]

Taking inventory here, but who are the ones that say they don't believe in God because they can't see him??

I believe in Donald Trump, he's god's son. So yes, I believe there's a god.

[Patrick Chewing]

I believe in Donald Trump, he's god's son. So yes, I believe there's a god.


Preach, brother. Preach!


https://media0.giphy.com/media/x6sfBlcbXW7kc/giphy.gif

[Chick Stern]

I believe in Donald Trump, he's god's son. So yes, I believe there's a god.

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/75/52/3d/75523d3e35030e8ce9429e091c831f29.jpg

[BigKobeFan]

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/75/52/3d/75523d3e35030e8ce9429e091c831f29.jpg

A plague with a 99.997% survival rate.

[dankok8]

Depends how you think of God.

A superpowerful being in human form that consciously controls us and determines our fate? No.
A force that governs the universe and establishes the laws of physics. Sure.

[n00bie]

Do you believe in God? Believe in Deathrow East.

[diamenz]

Do you believe in God? Believe in Deathrow East.

dr east was gonna happen, man. pac completed an entire unreleased album with the boot camp clik to kick it off.

anyway, back on topic. jesus was indeed a hippie marxist.

[SATAN]

Taking inventory here, but who are the ones that say they don't believe in God because they can't see him??

You can't see Satan. Stop it. :facepalm

[Gohan]

dr east was gonna happen, man. pac completed an entire unreleased album with the boot camp clik to kick it off.

anyway, back on topic. jesus was indeed a hippie marxist.

brothaz at armz was my song. almost all pac songs were good too bad he is Satan

[Chick Stern]

anyway, back on topic. jesus was indeed a hippie marxist.
Who hung out with a large group of men....

[72-10]

OP, you do something against God every day.

[Patrick Chewing]

OP, you do something against God every day.

How so? Explain.

[n00bie]

brothaz at armz was my song. almost all pac songs were good too bad he is Satan

Pac was Satan? He was pretty religious.

[Gohan]

Pac was Satan? He was pretty religious.

PAC is Satan in present tense. He disguises himself as an angel of light putting up a religious and holy front to deceive us.

[Chick Stern]

I think it is actually you who is misinterpreting the statement of Heisenberg.

When he speaks of not introducing the subjective nature of an observer, I believe he’s pointing out the theory does not suggest the observer himself selects or decides the outcome. But he’s clear on the fact that OBTAINING an outcome does in fact require an observer.

So IF we accept that - and all of mainstream science does - then we would have to admit that until sentient beings evolved on Earth, the solar system, and indeed any part of the Universe without sentient life (the vast majority of it) must not have objectively existed?? Because what observer could there have been??

Some theories posit that all possible realities exist simultaneously, and the conscious observer essentially moves in time across a field of infinite possibilities, cutting a swath of selected outcomes sort of like mowing a strip in a cornfield.

But again we must be clear: The current science requires that nothing specific exists without an observer. Only an infinite number of possibilities existing simultaneously. Without a conscious observer, planets and stars shouldnt actually have specific, defined physical properties. They dont exist the way we see them, UNLESS we see them.

That is unless they can somehow exist on a macro level DESPITE the rules of quantum mechanics implying they dont. Which seems like a hard thing to fathom, tho I grant anything is possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9aQ5q4jZvE

[Axe]

PAC is Satan in present tense. He disguises himself as an angel of light putting up a religious and holy front to deceive us.
:kobe: