Would joker be the weakest mvp in nba history?

[Bronbron23]

If he wins? Dude is so overrated. He's savvy and tricky but he's so slow and sloppy. He would get his shit pushed in by other atg bigs. I'm trying to think of a worse one. Nash maybe?

[juju151111]

If he wins? Dude is so overrated. He's savvy and tricky but he's so slow and sloppy. He would get his shit pushed in by other atg bigs. I'm trying to think of a worse one. Nash maybe?

No he elite

[NugzFan]

If he wins? Dude is so overrated. He's savvy and tricky but he's so slow and sloppy. He would get his shit pushed in by other atg bigs. I'm trying to think of a worse one. Nash maybe?

Nope

Next question

[1987_Lakers]

Wes Unseld winning MVP his rookie year has to be the biggest "wtf" to me.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yes. The big 5 are Jokic\Iverson\Westbrook\Rose\Nash

All 4 guys don't play good enough defense to ever win MVP but fool people with their traditional stats. At least Nash\Rose\Iverson\Westbrook can say they are point guards and their responsibility isn't really to protect the rim, not sure what Jokic's excuse is.

[Axe]

Is versatility not a good thing?

[999Guy]

I’d say he’s better than every MVP of the past two decades outside Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Curry and LeBron.

He’s probably better than 13 LeBron actually now that I think about it.

Harden had just as good of a 18 RS but he’s worse than Jokic on both ends IMO. Playoffs will show.

Nash is out of the question because Jokic is a good defender. Kobe also far worse and clearly so.

Yeah he’s a high level MVP IMO. If he faces Dallas in the first round he’ll have an all-time mini playoff run for a couple rounds like Hakeem did in his early to mid 20s.

[ImKobe]

Jokic is close to a unanimous MVP because of unique circumstances - injuries + COVID + a shortened season. He's one of the few star players that was healthy this year, but was 3rd in the MVP race before Lebron and Embiid got injured. It's one of the weaker MVPs, might be on par with Nash's in 05/06, Dirk's in 07 or Rose's in 2011. He's nowhere near the best player in the league but had a heck of a RS run.

[SouBeachTalents]

I’d say he’s better than every MVP of the past two decades outside Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Curry and LeBron.

He’s probably better than 13 LeBron actually now that I think about it.

Harden had just as good of a 18 RS but he’s worse than Jokic on both ends IMO. Playoffs will show.

Nash is out of the question because Jokic is a good defender. Kobe also far worse and clearly so.

Yeah he’s a high level MVP IMO. If he faces Dallas in the first round he’ll have an all-time mini playoff run for a couple rounds like Hakeem did in his early to mid 20s.
Absolutely not :oldlol: That was the best regular season of LeBron's career

[SouBeachTalents]

Jokic is close to a unanimous MVP because of unique circumstances - injuries + COVID + a shortened season. He's one of the few star players that was healthy this year, but was 3rd in the MVP race before Lebron and Embiid got injured. It's one of the weaker MVPs, might be on par with KG's in 2004 or Rose's in 2011. He's nowhere near the best player in the league but had a heck of a RS run.
KG's MVP season was the furthest thing from weak. Imo it was probably the best MVP season between Shaq & LeBron's first

[ImKobe]

KG's MVP season was the furthest thing from weak. Imo it was probably the best MVP season between Shaq & LeBron's first

Sorry, I meant in terms of who won it and how the league was overall that year. KG was a terrific player and did everything for Minnesota.

You know what, I'll take that back. Nash's MVPs are by far weaker and less deserved.

[SouBeachTalents]

Sorry, I meant in terms of who won it and how the league was overall that year. KG was a terrific player and did everything for Minnesota.

You know what, I'll take that back. Nash's MVPs are by far weaker and less deserved.
I know the playoffs overshadow it, but I wouldn't include Dirk in that category either. Winning 67 games in the West with Josh Howard as your best teammate is an extremely impressive accomplishment

[Micku]

Naw. I actually think he is a better than Nash and Rose when they won their mvp. Jokic offensively is amazing. One of the best offensive centers in history.

However, if he wins the MVP, it might be out of default due to situational. Covid, injuries, shorten season.

I thought Jokic, Embiid, LeBron and Harden were super impressive this season. Curry too. Gott'a give him a shout out of what he is doing. Cp3 too.

I dunno about who is the best player. I don't think it's clear cut this year at all. But I always thought Jokic and Embiid were the ones that played the best this year. But Curry is having an amazing streak offensively too.

[Stanley Kobrick]

i would value 08 as the weakest MVP just on value that many felt Chris Paul was the clear cut winner by majority, perhaps the weakest era of mvps between 1995-2000 as players like tim hardaway and grant hill were getting strong mvp nods on just 20ppg

[Dr Hawk]

Rose and Iverson are the weakest.

Jokic is clearly better than any of those 2 in both ends of the floor, and those who mention Nash, he was an ATG offensive player.

[ImKobe]

i would value 08 as the weakest MVP just on value that many felt Chris Paul was the clear cut winner by majority, perhaps the weakest era of mvps between 1995-2000 as players like tim hardaway and grant hill were getting strong mvp nods on just 20ppg

Then why did they vote for Kobe? Maybe it had something to do with him leading a worse supporting cast to the #1 seed and outplaying CP3 and Duncan H2H in April to get it?

Gasol only played 27 games, Kobe had them at a 53-win pace, and that's with Kwame, Walton & Turiaf starting games with Bynum injured a month before the Gasol trade. Lakers wouldn't even have needed Gasol had Bynum not been made of glass. Lakers were 25 - 11 (57-win pace) and .5 behind the #1 seed at the time of his season-ending injury.

[Stanley Kobrick]

Then why did they vote for Kobe? Maybe it had something to do with him leading a worse supporting cast to the #1 seed and outplaying CP3 and Duncan H2H in April to get it?

Gasol only played 27 games, Kobe had them at a 53-win pace, and that's with Kwame, Walton & Turiaf starting games with Bynum injured a month before the Gasol trade. Lakers wouldn't even have needed Gasol had Bynum not been made of glass. Lakers were 25 - 11 (57-win pace) and .5 behind the #1 seed at the time of his season-ending injury.
don't blame the messenger, i'm just repeating what everyone else says. take your anger it up with them :ohwell:

[999Guy]

Absolutely not :oldlol: That was the best regular season of LeBron's career

Not really. He was bulky and slow on defense compared to the previous 3 MVP’s. His motor started lagging.

25 year old LeBron was a speed demon with unlimited energy. His was on Jordan/Westbrook levels of energy and he was far bigger than them. That all stopped when he bulked up.

If LeBron played at his Miami size right now teams would be able to slow him down.

[ImKobe]

don't blame the messenger, i'm just repeating what everyone else says. take your anger it up with them :ohwell:

There's no anger, just that CP3 had no case over Kobe.

[Uncle Drew]

Jokic might already be the most skilled big man of all time, and he's only getting better.

[tanibanana]

NO.
Because Rose and Nash MVPs were the weakest. Then Iverson and Westbrook MVPs are arguably at same tier with Jokic imo.

[PeroAntic]

People who say that Rose is a weak MVP based on stats have not seen him actually play that season. He was something never before seen, defied the laws of physics.

[ArbitraryWater]

People who say that Rose is a weak MVP based on stats have not seen him actually play that season. He was something never before seen, defied the laws of physics.

so?

how is that an argument?

[StrongLurk]

WTF...Jokic wouldn't be close to worse MVP. Why is the NBA fanbase the DUMBEST fanbase of all major pro sports?

[mehyaM24]

iverson and rose were worse. dont even think jokic is a "weak" candidate though. what you described could also be said about bird. he often looked slow & uncoordinated, but was killing dudes out there with iq & skill. nobody thought he was a weak mvp.

[tontoz]

He is averaging 26/11/8.5 with a TS of 65%. Does anyone really think that is weak?

They are missing two starters but are still winning. Last night they had Rivers, Campazzo and JaMychal Green in the starting lineup and were still beating the Nets (with KD and Irving) with 6:30 left in the game.

Remember that Denver had an extended playoff run last year. They have the best record by far of the final 4 teams last year. In a condensed season with guys load managing/getting injured he has played every game and continues to carry his team to wins.

[Shooter]

Kawhi lost a 3-1 lead to the weakest MVP ever?

:lebronamazed:

[ShawkFactory]

Do people just not watch him? He’s an amazing basketball player..

[tpols]

Stupid question. You don't play like a 7 foot Larry Bird and get called a weak MVP. Rose and Iverson were way way worse.

[PeroAntic]

so?

how is that an argument?

The argument is that stats are not the only thing that determines the quality of an MVP.

[HylianNightmare]

Rose

[Bronbron23]

WTF...Jokic wouldn't be close to worse MVP. Why is the NBA fanbase the DUMBEST fanbase of all major pro sports?

So what mvp's is he better than? Only ones i can think of that are a possibility is nash, iverson,Westbrook, rose, kg and dirk. Still puts him as one of the weakest.

[Bronbron23]

He is averaging 26/11/8.5 with a TS of 65%. Does anyone really think that is weak?

They are missing two starters but are still winning. Last night they had Rivers, Campazzo and JaMychal Green in the starting lineup and were still beating the Nets (with KD and Irving) with 6:30 left in the game.

Remember that Denver had an extended playoff run last year. They have the best record by far of the final 4 teams last year. In a condensed season with guys load managing/getting injured he has played every game and continues to carry his team to wins.

Being the weakest in this category dosn't mean he's weak in general. It's a tough list

[kawhileonard2]

Rose

Led team to best record in the league with no other allstar. How is that the weakest?

[plowking]

I'd take current Jokic over any version of Garnett.

[Wally450]

Absolutely not :oldlol: That was the best regular season of LeBron's career

Yea idk what he's thinking with that one. I know people have short term memories but he shot like a god that season.

[Bronbron23]

Led team to best record in the league with no other allstar. How is that the weakest?

Yeah rose was ridiculous. At that point in time i thought he was one of the most athletic and talented gaurds ever. Injuries took alot of that way even though he's still nice. People are judging mvp by rose by how he looks now but mvp rose was a problem.

[RRR3]

Another awful thread from OP

[hold this L]

Didn't know Nick Wrong had an ish account.

[plowking]

Looking at these things retrospectively often helps as well for further context and clarity.

If Jokic goes on to win another two MVP's after this one, and say 3 titles, does he become one of the best?

There is no two ways around it really, aside from giving him his credit. This is without doubt one of the best big man seasons in NBA history. Whether he goes on to repeat it again or not, he has been phenomenal. It is actually hard to remember any bad games he has actually had this season.

[Knicksfever2010]

lets be real, you're saying this because he's white. Using terms like, "slow, sloppy, savvy, tricky". Also using another example of Nash.

[Manny98]

Derrick Rose
Allen Iverson

[RRR3]

Didn't know Nick Wrong had an ish account.
Nick Wright likes LeBron tho. Op hates him.

[Gohan]

Derrick Rose
Allen Iverson

Iverson was one of the best mvps in nba history mr. house you know
What

[tanibanana]

Being the weakest in this category dosn't mean he's weak in general. It's a tough list

I totally agree with this.
Except Jokic is not the weakest MVP. Nash/Rose MVP it is.

[Shooter]

Allen Iverson

[/thread]

[Bronbron23]

I totally agree with this.
Except Jokic is not the weakest MVP. Nash/Rose MVP it is.

That's fair. Wouldn't argue that. A part of me wants to argue rose because of how crazy he was athletically but hard to argue his impact was greater than jokic

[HoopsNY]

It's really hard to gauge this one. This season, and much like last season, aren't like the rest of seasons in NBA history.

The league has changed so much in terms of its style of play and now with Covid, last year's bubble, not having fans at the games, Covid protocols, with added load management of the leagues elite superstars - it just has a different ring to it unlike that of years past.

Having said that, what Jokic is doing is impressive, but the fact that he is not regarded as a defensive player weighs heavily when compared to many MVPs from previous seasons.

I don't think you can really compare him to anyone in the last 40 years, though.

[RRR3]

Iverson was one of the best mvps in nba history mr. house you know
What
No he wasn’t he stole that from Shaq lmao.

[Axe]

What if rudy gobert gets the last laugh and somehow ends up to be this years mvp for whatever odd reasons?

[Smoke117]

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