Clutch Sports committed fraud by getting everyone to call MJ's Bulls a super-team

[3ball]

The term didn't exist in the 90's and those Bulls never had a 3rd all-star

It's completely preposterous to call them a super-team but this is the tactic used to offset the fact that Lebron formed super-teams to win..

So now EVERYONE had a super-team - aka Curry's 2015 Warriors were a super-team despite not having 3 all-stars and everyone expecting them to barely win 50 games.. They completely surprised everyone.

the reality is that ONLY LEBRON had a super-team until 2017, and he never beat a super-team... Btw, the 2009/2010 Cavs had better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls and a 3rd scoring option that those Bulls never had - so they had a better cast than the Bulls and we're favored to win the title.. Lebron is simply a fraud for team-hopping

[ShawkFactory]

The 2016 Warriors had 3 all stars, the 2nd place 6th Man of the Year, and the coach of the year.

[8Ball]

Jordan played with a superteam for the entire 90s and never faced a superteam in the 90s. When Jordan faced a super team in the 80s he got swept.
LeBron organically built his super teams (joined garbage Miami, Cleveland, Laker teams) and played against super teams.

This is undeniable fact.

[8Ball]

LeBron never joined a 55 win team. LeBron could have joined the Warriors in 2014 (51 win team) and 3 peated easily.

Instead LeBron joins a lottery bound team and rebuilds the entire team.

[Hey Yo]

Rodman 1st all-defensive, league leading rebounder and FMVP.

[nineiron]

imagine thinking that having Rodman makes you a super team.

[clipps]

It was MJ's leadership and intensity in practice that inspired his teammates to play at an absolute high level. If anyone needs credit for building the Bulls into a superteam, it's MJ.

[Lebron23]

It was MJ's leadership and intensity in practice that inspired his teammates to play at an absolute high level. If anyone needs credit for building the Bulls into a superteam, it's MJ.

That's why he failed to led the Wizards in the playoffs in the Leastern Conference because of his leadership.

[Lebron23]

imagine thinking that having Rodman makes you a super team.

led the nba in rebounds per game from 1996 to 1998.

[Indian guy]

Does anyone think LeBron's career would've turned out remotely different if you replace Bosh/Love with Al Horford or Serge Ibaka during his 3 titles in 12/13/16? I certainly don't. A 3rd offensive star is generally redundant next to 2 great offensive players unless he's a truly special offensive player in the mold of a Worthy, Klay or Kyrie. Bosh and Love were NOT those players. Nor were they particularly well rounded players who excelled at things bigs are supposed to (rebounding/protecting paint). Their playoff production in those 3 runs is underwhelming at best. LeBron's easiest championship came in 2020 when he didn't have anything close to a 3rd star. Once you have adequate star power at the top it's more about fit and chemistry. LeBron's 12/13/16 teams may look "super" on paper if simply because of that 3rd "star," but I don't think they'd be any less effective as teams if that 3rd star was replaced with a solid role player.

Don't think 90's Bulls were ever close to being super teams either. They were always built in the mold of 2 stars + role players. And while Pippen was a strong #2 overall due to his versatility, he was still a volatile offensive player and Chicago's offense often ended up being too MJ-dependent because of it (2nd 3peat especially). They were most certainly a team that could've used better 3rd options than Horace Grant and a painfully inconsistent Kukoc.

When I think super teams I think of 17-19 GSW, current Nets and some of those Laker and Celtic teams in the 80's.

[8Ball]

It was MJ's leadership and intensity in practice that inspired his teammates to play at an absolute high level. If anyone needs credit for building the Bulls into a superteam, it's MJ.

Where was this leadership and intensity on the Wizards and in the 80s?

[Lebron23]

Does anyone think LeBron's career would've turned out remotely different if you replace Bosh/Love with Al Horford or Serge Ibaka during his 3 titles in 12/13/16? I certainly don't. A 3rd offensive star is generally redundant next to 2 great offensive players unless he's a truly special offensive player in the mold of a Worthy, Klay or Kyrie. Bosh and Love were NOT those players. Nor were they particularly well rounded players who excelled at things bigs are supposed to (rebounding/protecting paint). Their playoff production in those 3 runs is underwhelming at best. LeBron's easiest championship came in 2020 when he didn't have anything close to a 3rd star. Once you have adequate star power at the top it's more about fit and chemistry. LeBron's 12/13/16 teams may look "super" on paper if simply because of that 3rd "star," but I don't think they'd be any less effective as teams if that 3rd star was replaced with a solid role player.

Don't think 90's Bulls were ever close to being super teams either. They were always built in the mold of 2 stars + role players. And while Pippen was a strong #2 overall due to his versatility, he was still a volatile offensive player and Chicago's offense often ended up being too MJ-dependent because of it (2nd 3peat especially). They were most certainly a team that could've used better 3rd options than Horace Grant and a painfully inconsistent Kukoc.

When I think super teams I think of 17-19 GSW, current Nets and some of those Laker and Celtic teams in the 80's.

Welcome back Indian Guy. LeBron is going to be back against the Rockets.

[SouBeachTalents]

These arguments are always devoid of logic. For his era, Jordan absolutely played on a superteam. He had an elite 2nd option throughout the 90's and the best coach in the league, something no other star of that era could claim, in addition to a very talented supporting cast. Is anyone delusional enough to believe you're winning 6 titles without by far the most talented team of the era :lol How else would you explain still winning 55 games after losing the best player on the planet for nothing, or winning 72 then 69 games b2b years with most of your core players past their prime?

It's very reminiscent of the talking point "Kobe won b2b with just Pau!", ignoring the fact the Lakers had at worst, the best or 2nd best team in the league those years outside of maybe the Celtics.

[bullettooth]

LeBron organically built his super teams

How ****ing stupid are you to believe this?

[tpols]

Rodman 1st all-defensive, league leading rebounder and FMVP.

Horace Grant was not a star player. And they 3peat over Magic Lakers, stacked Clyde Blazers, and Barkley Suns with MJ dominating.

[HoopsNY]

Jordan played with a superteam for the entire 90s and never faced a superteam in the 90s. When Jordan faced a super team in the 80s he got swept.
LeBron organically built his super teams (joined garbage Miami, Cleveland, Laker teams) and played against super teams.

This is undeniable fact.

"Organically built super teams" :lol

It just gets better and better with Bran stans.

[ArbitraryWater]

It was MJ's leadership and intensity in practice that inspired his teammates to play at an absolute high level. If anyone needs credit for building the Bulls into a superteam, it's MJ.

Avid Last Dance watcher spotted

[mehyaM24]

lebron has played with a ton of help, and yes, jordan was on a few superteams. 96 being the most obvious one.



It's very reminiscent of the talking point "Kobe won b2b with just Pau!", ignoring the fact the Lakers had at worst, the best or 2nd best team in the league those years outside of maybe the Celtics.

yup. pau was an All-NBA player with bigtime impact. people quickly forget. before the heatles joined up, he was one of the most sought after #2s.

[FKAri]

How ****ing stupid are you to believe this?

Lebron built them with his own hands. MJ sat on his ass and whined to Krause and co to do it for him. That's the difference between a go getter and a gutless phaggit.




But Jordan went one step too far that first season. He was angry over the Bulls’ slow start and had already gone to Jerry Krause during the Western trip in November to ask that he make some trades.

“I need help,” he told Krause. Krause explained the Bulls had salary cap problems, which Jordan neither understood nor cared to hear about.


Jordan “lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey’s Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn’t particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause’s other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams.”



After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. “As soon as we get back, I’m calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again.

[Derka]

Did admin abandon the Euroleague account in favor of this one now?

[97 bulls]

These arguments are always devoid of logic. For his era, Jordan absolutely played on a superteam. He had an elite 2nd option throughout the 90's and the best coach in the league, something no other star of that era could claim, in addition to a very talented supporting cast. Is anyone delusional enough to believe you're winning 6 titles without by far the most talented team of the era :lol How else would you explain still winning 55 games after losing the best player on the planet for nothing, or winning 72 then 69 games b2b years with most of your core players past their prime?

It's very reminiscent of the talking point "Kobe won b2b with just Pau!", ignoring the fact the Lakers had at worst, the best or 2nd best team in the league those years outside of maybe the Celtics.

I couldn't have said it better. The Bulls won 55 games without MJ. And I think Rodman, Kukoc, and Harper are much better than Grant, Armstrong, and Pete Myers.

[8Ball]

"Organically built super teams" :lol

It just gets better and better with Bran stans.

Free agency, trades, draft. LeBron used all the organic ways to build a team.

Deal with it.

[8Ball]

I couldn't have said it better. The Bulls won 55 games without MJ. And I think Rodman, Kukoc, and Harper are much better than Grant, Armstrong, and Pete Myers.

Scottie Pippen made 1st team all-nba 3 years in a row.

That means Pippen was a top 5 player (top 3 in 94) for 3 straight years. And top 10 and top 15 for all the other years in the 90s.

HoopsNY will be very upset upon learning this for the first time.

[SATAN]

1-9

[Axe]

Mj teammates = great
Mj competition = weak

Lbj teammates = weak
Lbj competition = great

[Spurs m8]

Everything about clutch is fake and disgusting.

Like bron, really.

They're such a morally dirty bunch of weak, fake cowards

[RRR3]

Horace Grant was not a star player. And they 3peat over Magic Lakers, stacked Clyde Blazers, and Barkley Suns with MJ dominating.
Horace Grant sucked but Andre Drummond is amazing-the Tpols story


:roll:

[Shooter]

But Jordan went one step too far that first season. He was angry over the Bulls’ slow start and had already gone to Jerry Krause during the Western trip in November to ask that he make some trades.


“I need help,” he told Krause. Krause explained the Bulls had salary cap problems, which Jordan neither understood nor cared to hear about.
Jordan “lobbied extensively during the 1988-89 season for a trade that would bring New Jersey’s Buck Williams to the Bulls. Jordan didn’t particularly care for Horace Grant, Krause’s other pick in the 1987 Draft, never believing Grant would develop into a responsible player, and lobbied hard for Williams.”


After learning that NBA veteran and former North Carolina Tar Heel Walter Davis had been traded to Portland and not the Bulls, Jordan responded before a game against the Nets. “As soon as we get back, I’m calling (Jerry) Reinsdorf. Krause has messed everything up again.

Next

[dankok8]

LeStans live in a universe where a player added to a 50-win team (Bulls record without MJ in 1994 and 1995 is 89-58) that loses in the 2nd round and elevating them to a 65ish win team that wins 6 titles in 6 years isn't GOAT-worthy. Jordan raised that Bulls team from a league average offense to GOAT-level offense; took them from +2 SRS to to +9 SRS.

[Shooter]

LeStans live in a universe where a player added to a 50-win team (Bulls record without MJ in 1994 and 1995 is 89-58) that loses in the 2nd round and elevating them to a 65ish win team that wins 6 titles in 6 years isn't GOAT-worthy. Jordan raised that Bulls team from a league average offense to GOAT-level offense; took them from +2 SRS to to +9 SRS.

From 2007 to 2010 (4 years) Wade and Bosh never got out of the 1st round.

Let that sink in.

For 4 years, 2007, 2008, 2009. 2010, neither Wade nor Bosh made it out of the 1st round.

Then LeBron came along and they made 4 straight Finals in 4 years.

[SouBeachTalents]

From 2007 to 2010 (4 years) Wade and Bosh never got out of the 1st round.

Let that sink in.

For 4 years, 2007, 2008, 2009. 2010, neither Wade nor Bosh made it out of the 1st round.

Then LeBron came along and they made 4 straight Finals in 4 years.
How'd Wade do in 2006?

[Shooter]

How'd Wade do in 2006?

Excellent. He won his 1st chip and FMVP :rockon:

But then he fell off a cliff, successwise

[Johnny32]

The 2016 Warriors had 3 all stars, the 2nd place 6th Man of the Year, and the coach of the year.

blah @ all star voting. the warriors had 3 all nba performers that season. that's clearly a super team the likes jordan never faced.

[Spurs m8]

We really using all star popularity contest to assess teams?hahahha
Especially in a league which has the dumbest fans in sport.

Okay

[Axe]

Day what in ish of consecutive mj vs. lbj arguments?

[Spurs m8]

Day what in ish of consecutive mj vs. lbj arguments?

Amazing, considering its not even an argument hahaha

[Axe]

Amazing, considering its not even an argument hahaha
He does continue to rent free inside of you m8

[HoopsNY]

Revisionist history. No one saw the Bulls as a "super team" in the 90s. In fact, no one wanted Rodman. Bran stans want to re-evaluate history rather than look at how things were viewed at the time. When LeBron joined Bosh and Wade, the entire sports world viewed that as collusion.

When Rodman joined Chicago, no one wanted him.


"Big surprise, huh?" Spurs General Manager Gregg Popovich said of the trade.

Popovich, speaking at a news conference in San Antonio, said it was "difficult" to find a team willing to trade for Rodman.

When asked if it were a relief to be rid of Rodman, Popovich said: "A big relief? We were without him for quite a bit last year, so it's not any different in many respects."

In acquiring Perdue, a 30-year-old part-time center and marginal player, San Antonio made it all too clear it was simply intent on unloading Rodman.

Rodman was suspended during the season for insubordination and often missed practice, his whereabouts unknown. During games he would spurn team huddles and remove his basketball shoes while on the bench.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1995/10/03/bulls-acquire-rodman-from-spurs/05ef2039-04da-4483-a7bd-84219c40417d/

[clipps]

That's why he failed to led the Wizards in the playoffs in the Leastern Conference because of his leadership.

Imagine how bad they'd be without him.

[Mr. Woke]

The Bulls in the 90s were super teams when they won titles.

3ball is such a retard lol.

[Mr. Woke]

Everything about clutch is fake and disgusting.

Like bron, really.

They're such a morally dirty bunch of weak, fake cowards

Quit projecting your own insecurities onto Klutch Sports and King James.

[Manny98]

Jordan
Pippen
Rodman
Kukoc

Jordan
Pippen
Grant
Armstrong

How are they not superteams especially in a era where they weren't any big 3s like today

The Bulls were virtually the only team that had a legitimate big 3 in that era

[97 bulls]

Revisionist history. No one saw the Bulls as a "super team" in the 90s. In fact, no one wanted Rodman. Bran stans want to re-evaluate history rather than look at how things were viewed at the time. When LeBron joined Bosh and Wade, the entire sports world viewed that as collusion.

When Rodman joined Chicago, no one wanted him.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1995/10/03/bulls-acquire-rodman-from-spurs/05ef2039-04da-4483-a7bd-84219c40417d/

The term "super team" wasnt used back them. But most saw them as the best team ever. Even to this day.

[sdot_thadon]

How in the Mookie Blaylock hell can you have 3 stars (when like 99% of teams only had 2) and the 6moy, be considered the greatest team ever, even beyond the era of "super teams" and not be considered a super team? Fan Logic these days man I tell ya....

[bizil]

Super teams for me on the HIGHEST type of level features at least three guys who are alpha dog scorers. Or two alpha dog scorers and one guy just right under that scoring wise. Or three guys u could argue as top 15 players in the league. So FOR ME I think Showtimes Lakers, KD-Steph Warriors, 83 Sixers, 2008 Celtics, 2010s Heat, etc. Those teams had the right pieces around their stars for them to win rings.

The Bulls WEREN'T built on this mode. They NEVER had 3 of the top 15 players in the league. They ONLY had one alpha dog scorer in MJ. Hell MOST THE TEAMS they faced in the Finals had DEEPER ROSTERS 1 through 12. It's just that MJ and Pip covered up SO MANY GAPS that it enabled the rest of the team to fall in line perfectly. From there,they had a workman like All Defensive-All Star caliber PF (Worm and Ho) as their third most important player. HUGE REASON why MJ is the GOAT is BECAUSE of winning six rings with that Bulls team.

[hateraid]

imagine thinking that having Rodman makes you a super team.

I'd rather have Rodman over Bosh and Love.