Istrael and hamas Escalate heavy fighting with no end in sight

[Lebron23]

https://apnews.com/article/world-news-hamas-middle-east-israel-ad7d5a99e382dcdd3e5df45f33be1b43?fbclid=IwAR2lStJ7 ojlQkpvXbuvpyeRKKsVjrZaz24z0ia-NOSaMbnqAJv691PCiiVE

https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/0d99e611c1c84444b79df319a8f81a86/800.jpeg



JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel stepped up its attacks on the Gaza Strip, flattening a high-rise building used by the Hamas militant group and killing at least three militants in their hideouts on Tuesday as Palestinian rockets rained down almost nonstop on parts of Israel.

It was the heaviest fighting between the bitter enemies since 2014, and it showed no signs of slowing.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed to expand the offensive, while Gaza militants unleashed a fierce late-night barrage of rockets that set off air-raid sirens and explosions throughout the densely populated Tel Aviv metropolitan area.

ADVERTISEMENT
Just after daybreak Wednesday, Israel unleashed dozens of airstrikes in the course of a few minutes, targeting police and security installations, witnesses said. A wall of dark gray smoke rose over Gaza City. Iyad al-Bozum, a spokesman for the Hamas-run Interior Ministry, said airstrikes destroyed the central police headquarters in Gaza City, a compound with several buildings.

Five Israelis, including three women and a child, were killed by rocket fire Tuesday and early Wednesday, and dozens of people wounded. The death toll in Gaza rose to 35 Palestinians, including 10 children, according to the Health Ministry. Over 200 people were wounded.

In the West Bank, meanwhile, a 26-year-old Palestinian was killed during clashes with Israeli troops that entered al-Fawar refugee camp in southern Hebron, the ministry said.

In another sign of widening unrest, demonstrations erupted in Arab communities across Israel, where protesters set dozens of vehicles on fire in confrontations with police.

The fighting between Israel and Hamas was the most intense since a 50-day war in the summer of 2014. In just over 24 hours, the current round of violence, sparked by religious tensions in the contested city of Jerusalem, increasingly resembled that devastating war.

The booms of Israeli airstrikes and hisses of outgoing rocket fire could be heard in Gaza throughout the day, and large plumes of smoke from targeted buildings rose into the air. Israel resumed a policy of airstrikes aimed at killing wanted militants and began to take down entire buildings — a tactic that drew heavy international criticism in 2014.

ADVERTISEMENT
In Israel, the nonstop barrages of rocket fire left long streaks of white smoke in their wake, while the explosions of anti-rocket interceptors boomed overhead. Air-raid sirens wailed throughout the day, sending panicked residents scurrying for cover.

In a nationally televised address, Netanyahu said that Hamas and the smaller Islamic Jihad militant groups “have paid, and I tell you here, will pay a heavy price for their aggression.”

He claimed that Israel had killed dozens of militants and inflicted heavy damage on hundreds of targets.

“This campaign will take time,” he said. “With determination, unity and strength, we will restore security to the citizens of Israel.”

He stood alongside Defense Minister Benny Gantz, a political rival, in a show of unity. “There are lots of targets lined up. This is only the beginning,” Gantz said. The military said it was activating some 5,000 reservists and sending troop reinforcements to the Gaza border.

The current violence has coincided with the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan, a time of heightened religious sentiments.

Critics say heavy-handed Israeli police measures in and around Jerusalem’s Old City helped stoke nightly unrest. Another flashpoint has been the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, where dozens of Palestinians are under threat of eviction by Jewish settlers.

Confrontations erupted last weekend at the Al-Aqsa mosque compound, which is the third-holiest site in Islam and the holiest site in Judaism. Over four days, Israeli police fired tear gas and stun grenades at Palestinians in the compound who hurled stones and chairs at the forces. At times, police fired stun grenades into the carpeted mosque.

On Monday evening, Hamas began firing rockets from Gaza. From there on, the escalation was rapid.

In a televised address, Hamas’ exiled leader, Ismail Haniyeh, said Israel bore responsibility. “It’s the Israeli occupation that set Jerusalem on fire, and the flames reached Gaza,” he said.

Palestinian health officials gave no breakdown on the death toll in Gaza, but Islamic Jihad confirmed that three senior commanders were killed in a strike on their hideout in a Gaza City apartment building. The Health Ministry said 10 children and a woman were also killed.

Netanyahu said Israel had attacked hundreds of targets. The fiercest attack was a set of airstrikes that brought down an entire 12-story building. The building housed important Hamas offices, as well as a gym and some start-up businesses. Israel fired a series of warning shots before demolishing the building, allowing people to flee and there were no casualties.

Israeli aircraft heavily damaged another Gaza City building early Wednesday. The nine-story structure housed residential apartments, medical companies and a dental clinic. A drone fired five warning rockets before the bombing. Israel said the building housed Hamas intelligence offices and the group’s command responsible for planning attacks on Israeli targets in the occupied West Bank.

Fighter jets struck the building again after journalists and rescuers had gathered around. There was no immediate word on casualties. The high-rise stood 200 meters (650 feet) away from the Associated Press bureau in Gaza City, and smoke and debris reached the office.

Soon after the bombing, Hamas announced that it would resume its attacks and aimed 100 rockets at the Israeli desert town of Beer-Sheva. Hamas said the renewed barrage was in response to the strike on the building. The latest rocket attack early Wednesday killed a man and his seven-year-old daughter in the central city of Lod, according to Israel’s Kan public radio.

The Israeli military said hundreds of rockets were launched toward Israel. Two women, including an Indian caregiver, were killed in separate rocket strikes in the southern city of Ashkelon.

Then, late at night, Hamas said it unleashed a barrage of 130 rockets toward Tel Aviv in response to the destruction of the high-rise. As the rockets rose into the skies, mosques across Gaza blared with chants of “God is great,” “victory to Islam” and “resistance.”



___

[Axe]

Prayers go to those who are affected by this mess.

[Objectivity]

Interesting how Jews allow this to continue, imo they should flatten the whole of gaza strip. Are they worried about the international reaction?
Clearly it is untenable to live under the daily threat of bombing, the sheer psychological toll of it must be terrifying.

[Hey Yo]

This shit didnt happen in the 4yrs under Trump because Hamas knew they would suffer major consequences by doing so.

Now they know we have a spineless President who doesn't even know what day it is... they're going to see what they can get away with to see if the U.S will even get involved.

Thanks board Dems.

[Patrick Chewing]

Interesting how Jews allow this to continue, imo they should flatten the whole of gaza strip. Are they worried about the international reaction?
Clearly it is untenable to live under the daily threat of bombing, the sheer psychological toll of it must be terrifying.

They should just level Gaza. But I got to tell you the amazing precision of the IDF. Look at them level this entire building and bring it down that was reportedly a Hamas hideout with weapons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDnGz4_KxQc

:eek:

[Objectivity]

They should just level Gaza. But I got to tell you the amazing precision of the IDF. Look at them level this entire building and bring it down that was reportedly a Hamas hideout with weapons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDnGz4_KxQc

:eek:

:rockon: nice video, tho my brain did hurt hearing the insects with their alahu akbar chants

[ralph_i_el]

Interesting how Jews allow this to continue, imo they should flatten the whole of gaza strip. Are they worried about the international reaction?
Clearly it is untenable to live under the daily threat of bombing, the sheer psychological toll of it must be terrifying.

Without the US backing them, they will get it even worse from their neighbors. If they flatten Gaza, they will lose US public support.

You all know that Gaza is surrounded by a wall, Israel controls what goes in and out, Israel controls their electricity and connection to the internet, and Israel will not let them drill the natural gas reserves they have off the coast? Attacking Israel is 100% justified by Gaza under these circumstances. You don't just get to blockade a couple million people into a city. They can't do business with the outside world because they don't control their borders, so their only option in the past was to be cheap labor for Israel, and only have access to Israeli-made products. If someone trapped you in an open air prison and used you as a disposable farm animal, you would be an absolute coward for not fighting back.

[FultzNationRISE]

Without the US backing them, they will get it even worse from their neighbors. If they flatten Gaza, they will lose US public support.

You all know that Gaza is surrounded by a wall, Israel controls what goes in and out, Israel controls their electricity and connection to the internet, and Israel will not let them drill the natural gas reserves they have off the coast? Attacking Israel is 100% justified by Gaza under these circumstances You don't just get to blockade a couple million people into a city. They can't do business with the outside world because they don't control their borders, so their only option in the past was to be cheap labor for Israel, and only have access to Israeli-made products. If someone trapped you in an open air prison and used you as a disposable farm animal, you would be an absolute coward for not fighting back.

Arent you a communist?

I thought you believed a government had the right to do this to people, as long as they claim it’s for their own good or protection?

Israel is just creating a worker’s paradise for these people, that’s all.

What could you possibly be complaining about??

[Hey Yo]

Just reported that Israel's cabinet voted to increase strikes on Hamas.

[Patrick Chewing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etro_PFXeLQ

:banana:

[rawimpact]

I'd like the US to lend weapons to both sides here to test our military equipment.

But much like that bomb, warn the citizens to avoid casualties of course.

[RRR3]

Without the US backing them, they will get it even worse from their neighbors. If they flatten Gaza, they will lose US public support.

You all know that Gaza is surrounded by a wall, Israel controls what goes in and out, Israel controls their electricity and connection to the internet, and Israel will not let them drill the natural gas reserves they have off the coast? Attacking Israel is 100% justified by Gaza under these circumstances. You don't just get to blockade a couple million people into a city. They can't do business with the outside world because they don't control their borders, so their only option in the past was to be cheap labor for Israel, and only have access to Israeli-made products. If someone trapped you in an open air prison and used you as a disposable farm animal, you would be an absolute coward for not fighting back.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[bladefd]

I'd like the US to lend weapons to both sides here to test our military equipment.

But much like that bomb, warn the citizens to avoid casualties of course.

https://media.giphy.com/media/m4g1vtdI6EXrG/giphy.gif

[DoctorP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

[TeflonDonTrump]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Not any different than living in your mother's basement and going on the internet.

[MMM]

Palestinians deserve fundamental human rights. We can address other issues, but only after the essential human rights part. The parallels to other indigenous peoples worldwide is why an equitable solution is preserving all the rights the Palestinians have to their land.

[ralph_i_el]

Arent you a communist?

I thought you believed a government had the right to do this to people, as long as they claim it’s for their own good or protection?

Israel is just creating a worker’s paradise for these people, that’s all.

What could you possibly be complaining about??

See a shrink

[FultzNationRISE]

See a shrink

You masked up and vaxed up baby boi??

[ralph_i_el]

You masked up and vaxed up baby boi??

I've been fully vaxxed for like a month now. Living my life. No need to get vaxxed if you never leave your mom's basement anyways.

[FultzNationRISE]

I've been fully vaxxed for like a month now. Living my life. No need to get vaxxed if you never leave your mom's basement anyways.


:roll:

Oblivious government pawn, masquerading as some revolutionary insurgent.

[Lebron23]

I'd like the US to lend weapons to both sides here to test our military equipment.

But much like that bomb, warn the citizens to avoid casualties of course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyy9RF19oQ0 Kinda reminded me of the movie Lord of War when Nicolas Cage is selling weapons to the african war lords

[ralph_i_el]

:roll:

Oblivious government pawn, masquerading as some revolutionary insurgent.

Do you have a problem with all vaccines, or just the ones for covid?

[MaxPlayer]

I'd like the US to lend weapons to both sides here to test our military equipment.


Pretty sure they're way ahead of you on that one

[ralph_i_el]

Pretty sure they're way ahead of you on that one

Our tax money literally bought them a massive missile defense system. We love when rockets start flying....we get real field data!

[Hey Yo]

Reported that neither side are interested in negotiating a seize fire..... probably heading to full war between the 2

[ralph_i_el]

Reported that neither side are interested in negotiating a seize fire..... probably heading to full war between the 2

This could be the flashpoint for a much larger war. Without continued direct US support, Israel risks crossing a line and getting into a full scale conflict with the nations and non-government forces aligned with Iran. It also risks the tenuous relationship with Egypt and Saudi, meaning they might start facing an ISIS style sunni-wahhabist set of enemies as well. Those nations get a lot of cash from the US to keep militants under control, but there comes a point where cash isn't enough anymore.

It's starting to feel like how it must have felt on the eve of WW1 breaking out. There's all these conflicts that have been balanced for years so as to not descend into war....but now the status quo is finally untenable.

[Patrick Chewing]

Palestinians deserve fundamental human rights. We can address other issues, but only after the essential human rights part. The parallels to other indigenous peoples worldwide is why an equitable solution is preserving all the rights the Palestinians have to their land.

Palestinians are afforded several human rights. They're not slaves to Israel. They're slaves to Hamas if anything.

[ralph_i_el]

Palestinians are afforded several human rights.


https://media.tenor.com/images/0fbb0a7de077c56b8d444c3852168d29/tenor.gif

WTF does that even mean? Tell us, which human rights does Israel so graciously allow Palestinians to have, and which rights they don't "afford" them?

[Patrick Chewing]

https://media.tenor.com/images/0fbb0a7de077c56b8d444c3852168d29/tenor.gif

WTF does that even mean? Tell us, which human rights does Israel so graciously allow Palestinians to have, and which rights they don't "afford" them?


Palestinians deserve fundamental human rights.


Talk to him Ralphy boy. He's under the impression Palestinians are living at the mercy of Israel.

[FultzNationRISE]

Do you have a problem with all vaccines, or just the ones for covid?

Me: “I have a problem with a massive federal fear mongering initiative, based on nothing scientific and geared entirely toward altering constitutional rights and manipulating the economy.”

You: “Got my mask, got my vaccine! Thank god Im safe..”

[ralph_i_el]

Talk to him Ralphy boy. He's under the impression Palestinians are living at the mercy of Israel.

You clearly did not understand what I just posted.

Tell us, which humans rights does Israel "afford" to Palestinians, and which rights they deny to them? Bonus points if you can explain why Israel gets to decide what rights Palestinians get.

[ralph_i_el]

Me: “I have a problem with a massive federal fear mongering initiative, based on nothing scientific and geared entirely toward altering constitutional rights and manipulating the economy.”

You: “Got my mask, got my vaccine! Thank god Im safe..”

You asked me out of the blue if I got vaccinated. You're talking to voices inside your head bro, come back to the real world.

"based on nothing scientific" are you saying Covid is fake? Or vaccines are fake? Or just this vaccine is fake?

[Patrick Chewing]

You clearly did not understand what I just posted.

Tell us, which humans rights does Israel "afford" to Palestinians, and which rights they deny to them? Bonus points if you can explain why Israel gets to decide what rights Palestinians get.

Palestinians control their destiny. Israel does not afford nor deny them of any rights. To go into this discussion and think that Palestine is innocent and at a disadvantage is incorrect.

[ralph_i_el]

Palestinians control their destiny. Israel does not afford nor deny them of any rights. To go into this discussion and think that Palestine is innocent and at a disadvantage is incorrect.

Israel routinely arrest Palestinians for speech. Free speech is a human right that Israel is denying them.

Freedom of movement is a human right. Israel built a wall around Gaza and controls what goes in and out. That's a right they are denying Palestinians.

Equal rights between religious groups and ethnic groups are a human right. In Israel, marriage between people of different races or religious is illegal. A Palestinian cannot marry an Israeli. That is a human right they are denied.

Freedom from torture is a human right, but Israel routinely tortures Palestinian prisoners.

Equal protection under the law is a human right. Israeli courts refuse to examine Palestinian land deeds that prove their ownership of property, instead only accepting documents from Jews.

Freedom from arbitrary arrest, detention, and exile is a human right. Israel routinely holds Palestinians in jail without charges or trials.

Freedom from arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence is a human right. Israeli Mossad tracks all electronic communication in Gaza and threatens to out gay Palestinians unless they spy for Israel.

Having a nationality is a right. In denying Palestinians a state, Israel is denying them human rights.

Property rights are human rights, yet in the West Bank Israel refuses to issue any building permits to Palestinians, so they can't improve their properties and must eventually sell. In Jerusalem, they are arbitrarily evicting entire neighborhoods of Palestinians. In Gaza, Israel has blocked Palestinians from accessing large natural gas reserves off the coast.

Equal access to public services is a human right. Israeli courts just ruled that they don't have to provide education to Palestinian kids, only Hebrew-language education.....and guess what.....education is a human right!

I could keep going down the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" that all UN nations theoretically are supposed to abide by, but I'll just link it here. https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

[ralph_i_el]

Now we wait for Pat to find one point I made that he disagrees with, then ignore every other point. :facepalm

Saying "Palestinians control their destiny" makes me think that you know very little of the history of this conflict. Please read up on the Oslo Accords and get back to me.

[Patrick Chewing]

Israel routinely arrest Palestinians for speech. Free speech is a human right that Israel is denying them.

Freedom of movement is a human right. Israel built a wall around Gaza and controls what goes in and out. That's a right they are denying Palestinians.

Equal rights between religious groups and ethnic groups are a human right. In Israel, marriage between people of different races or religious is illegal. A Palestinian cannot marry an Israeli. That is a human right they are denied.

Freedom from torture is a human right, but Israel routinely tortures Palestinian prisoners.

Equal protection under the law is a human right. Israeli courts refuse to examine Palestinian land deeds that prove their ownership of property, instead only accepting documents from Jews.

Freedom from arbitrary arrest, detention, and exile is a human right. Israel routinely holds Palestinians in jail without charges or trials.

Freedom from arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence is a human right. Israeli Mossad tracks all electronic communication in Gaza and threatens to out gay Palestinians unless they spy for Israel.

Having a nationality is a right. In denying Palestinians a state, Israel is denying them human rights.

Property rights are human rights, yet in the West Bank Israel refuses to issue any building permits to Palestinians, so they can't improve their properties and must eventually sell. In Jerusalem, they are arbitrarily evicting entire neighborhoods of Palestinians. In Gaza, Israel has blocked Palestinians from accessing large natural gas reserves off the coast.

Equal access to public services is a human right. Israeli courts just ruled that they don't have to provide education to Palestinian kids, only Hebrew-language education.....and guess what.....education is a human right!

I could keep going down the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" that all UN nations theoretically are supposed to abide by, but I'll just link it here. https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

Spoken like a true propagandist for Palestine and every other anti-Israel nation.

Imagine living next to Islamists that want to kill you, and when they attack you, they hide behind innocent women and children. Just yesterday, a Hamas leader advocated for Muslims inside of Israel to behead Jews.


And this nikka right here wants me to think of Israel as the enemy.....:oldlol:

[Objectivity]

Israel routinely arrest Palestinians for speech. Free speech is a human right that Israel is denying them.

Freedom of movement is a human right. Israel built a wall around Gaza and controls what goes in and out. That's a right they are denying Palestinians.

Equal rights between religious groups and ethnic groups are a human right. In Israel, marriage between people of different races or religious is illegal. A Palestinian cannot marry an Israeli. That is a human right they are denied.

Freedom from torture is a human right, but Israel routinely tortures Palestinian prisoners.

Equal protection under the law is a human right. Israeli courts refuse to examine Palestinian land deeds that prove their ownership of property, instead only accepting documents from Jews.

Freedom from arbitrary arrest, detention, and exile is a human right. Israel routinely holds Palestinians in jail without charges or trials.

Freedom from arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence is a human right. Israeli Mossad tracks all electronic communication in Gaza and threatens to out gay Palestinians unless they spy for Israel.

Having a nationality is a right. In denying Palestinians a state, Israel is denying them human rights.

Property rights are human rights, yet in the West Bank Israel refuses to issue any building permits to Palestinians, so they can't improve their properties and must eventually sell. In Jerusalem, they are arbitrarily evicting entire neighborhoods of Palestinians. In Gaza, Israel has blocked Palestinians from accessing large natural gas reserves off the coast.

Equal access to public services is a human right. Israeli courts just ruled that they don't have to provide education to Palestinian kids, only Hebrew-language education.....and guess what.....education is a human right!

I could keep going down the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" that all UN nations theoretically are supposed to abide by, but I'll just link it here. https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

You listed a lot of data here of dubious authenticity. What is much more important and left unsaid is the palestinian 3 no policy, no peace with Israel, no negotiation, no recognition of Israel.

How are Israelis supposed to negotiate with someone who denies them statehood and is not willing to negotiate? Moreover, it was not Israel that initiated any conflicts, arabs did back in 1948 after the UN partition and again in the 50s and 60s.

[FultzNationRISE]

You asked me out of the blue if I got vaccinated. You're talking to voices inside your head bro, come back to the real world.

"based on nothing scientific" are you saying Covid is fake? Or vaccines are fake? Or just this vaccine is fake?

Im saying the threat posed to the population was presented by the Gov-Media alarm sirens based on neither scientific data, NOR authentic concern for public health.

This is a calculated and opportunistic push toward globalism, under the guise of protecting us from a scary virus. And I know for a fact you are the type of guy who claims to hate oppression and subjugation when it sounds trendy and revolutionary, because you want that public image, but you can be manipulated to believe and trust the government WHILE THEY DO THAT if they frame it as something only dumb Trump hillbillys oppose, bc you want that elitist intellectual image too.

What Im saying is, you are a poser. Not a genuine intellect. Youre a guy trying to be multiple incompatible things, because the genuine intellects who do run the country’s affairs know ALL the psychological tools for keeping a generic public full of sheep in line, and that includes you.

You are pretending to be a thing you actually are not.

[Patrick Chewing]

You listed a lot of data here of dubious authenticity. What is much more important and left unsaid is the palestinian 3 no policy, no peace with Israel, no negotiation, no recognition of Israel.

How are Israelis supposed to negotiate with someone who denies them statehood and is not willing to negotiate? Moreover, it was not Israel that initiated any conflicts, arabs did back in 1948 after the UN partition and again in the 50s and 60s.

He acts as if every other Arab country around Israel truly wants them there.


But we're supposed to think that Israel is the big bad bully. Imagine hating a country because they're civilized, modernized, and have their shit together, and instead rooting for the country who is not civilized, not modernized, and does not have their shit together.

There is a reason why the Jordanians don't want Palestinian refugees.

[ralph_i_el]

Spoken like a true propagandist for Palestine and every other anti-Israel nation.

Imagine living next to Islamists that want to kill you, and when they attack you, they hide behind innocent women and children. Just yesterday, a Hamas leader advocated for Muslims inside of Israel to behead Jews.


And this nikka right here wants me to think of Israel as the enemy.....:oldlol:

You can't contest a single point, because you are a know-nothing.

Netanyahu formed a political alliance with the "Religious Zionist" party, which is mad up of members from the old banned Kahanist party (https://www.timesofisrael.com/democratic-pro-israel-group-appalled-by-kahanist-factions-entry-into-knesset/) (banned for being terrorists who literally killed the Israeli PM Rabin who made a deal with the Palestinians). They believe in a religious theocracy, and annexing the West Bank. Anything you find a member of Hamas saying, I can find an Israeli influencer saying. https://apnews.com/article/israel-elections-benjamin-netanyahu-exit-polls-6fc44df2043b04b1b823a45d6d508859 The ruling party of Israel is allied with the Jewish equivalent of Nazis.. Rabin signed the Oslo Accords with the PLO to actually have a 2-state deal....and the Kahanists shot him in the street. The right wing took over after that and have been breaking every point of the Oslo deal ever since. The current PM (Netanyahu) attended a "Kill Rabin" party a week before Rabin was killed.

In my neighborhood I have Muslims out grilling every Eid. They share whatever they're cooking with passersby. Even though they are afraid of my dog, they will always offer me food during Eid when I am out walking.

[ralph_i_el]

You listed a lot of data here of dubious authenticity. What is much more important and left unsaid is the palestinian 3 no policy, no peace with Israel, no negotiation, no recognition of Israel.

How are Israelis supposed to negotiate with someone who denies them statehood and is not willing to negotiate? Moreover, it was not Israel that initiated any conflicts, arabs did back in 1948 after the UN partition and again in the 50s and 60s.

The PLO signed the Oslo Accords. They did negotiate. The far-right in Israel literally killed the Israeli PM that negotiated the deal, and then stopped following it. The PLO also had a tough time holding up their end of the deal....because Israel funded right wing religious fanatics to undermine them....and those guys became Hamas! https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847 "How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas". The Oslo Accords were very favorable to Israel, and very unpopular among Palestinians....yet Israel still broke them. The dominant faction of the Israeli government wants all of the West Bank and Jerusalem, and will not stop until they get it.

Oslo Accords: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#:~:text=The%20Oslo%20Accords%20are%20 a,Taba%2C%20Egypt%2C%20in%201995.

Rabin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

[Patrick Chewing]

In my neighborhood I have Muslims out grilling ever Eid. They share whatever they're cooking with passersby. Even though they are afraid of my dog, they will always offer me food during Eid when I am out walking.

What's this supposed to mean? That you've never been offered food by a Jew before?

[ralph_i_el]

and instead rooting for the country who is not civilized, not modernized, and does not have their shit together.



How do you "Get your shit together" when you can't participate in international business because a rival nation controls your borders, and you can't access the natural resources of your nation because a rival nation says the money will finance "terrorism"? There's literally no outlet for folks in Gaza to legitimately improve their economy. In the West Bank, Israel controls all building permits and will not issue them to Palestinians, so Palestinians can't develop their land and are eventually forced to sell. If they build without a permit, Israel bulldozes it.

How do you :get your shit together" under these circumstances? Palestinians exist as a source of cheap labor for Israelis, and a controlled market for Israeli products (Remember, Israel controls what goes in and out....so overpriced Israeli goods are primarily what is available). Meanwhile, Israel is getting billions of dollars a year straight from the US government. Very easy to "get your shit together" when you get free cash from Uncle Sam, and let Jews from other countries hide their cash from taxes in Israel! (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israeli-bank-fined-nearly-1-billion-in-us-tax-evasion-money-laundering-cases/2020/05/01/855bc218-8b72-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.html)

If you are actually at all interested in learning something, instead of just running your mouth, I'd suggest reading this book: https://www.amazon.com/Jerusalem-Biography-Simon-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/0307280500. The author is the scion of an old Jewish banking family that built ~1/4 of Jerusalem, and it's a very unbiased account of the history of the city (ancient and modern).

[ralph_i_el]

What's this supposed to mean? That you've never been offered food by a Jew before?

You said:


Imagine living next to Islamists that want to kill you, and when they attack you, they hide behind innocent women and children. Just yesterday, a Hamas leader advocated for Muslims inside of Israel to behead Jews.

That has not been my experience living around devout Muslims. Maybe it's because I haven't tried to steal their houses?

Somehow I'm always the one buying dinner for my friend Rachel though :lol

[Objectivity]

The PLO signed the Oslo Accords. They did negotiate. The far-right in Israel literally killed the Israeli PM that negotiated the deal, and then stopped following it. The PLO also had a tough time holding up their end of the deal....because Israel funded right wing religious fanatics to undermine them....and those guys became Hamas! https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847 "How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas". The Oslo Accords were very favorable to Israel, and very unpopular among Palestinians....yet Israel still broke them. The dominant faction of the Israeli government wants all of the West Bank and Jerusalem, and will not stop until they get it.

Oslo Accords: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords#:~:text=The%20Oslo%20Accords%20are%20 a,Taba%2C%20Egypt%2C%20in%201995.

Rabin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin

You mention some very interesting perspectives, I will have to educate myself on the topic further.

Another thing I would like to add regarding the concepts
Palestinians/Palestine is that it is an inherently political and antisemitic construct.
These people could easily have been assimilated into various arab countries and there would be no issues today.
Arabs made a conscious decision not to and use the appeal to “oh so poor innocent palestinians opressed by evil jews.” People even call palestinians 2nd, 3rd etc generation refugees.
Imagine greeks claiming refugee status due to their ancestors being expelled from Turkey in the early 1920s :no:

[ralph_i_el]

You mention some very interesting perspectives, I will have to educate myself on the topic further.

Another thing I would like to add regarding the concepts
Palestinians/Palestine is that it is an inherently political and antisemitic construct.
These people could easily have been assimilated into various arab countries and there would be no issues today.
Arabs made a conscious decision not to and use the appeal to “oh so poor innocent palestinians opressed by evil jews.” People even call palestinians 2nd, 3rd etc generation refugees.
Imagine greeks claiming refugee status due to their ancestors being expelled from Turkey in the early 1920s :no:

Is that crazier than a Jewish guy from Brooklyn claiming right of return because his ancestors were expelled 2000 years ago?

I'm glad you are interested. I can't really answer all of those questions with a level of detail that would satisfy me, so I would highly recommend reading that book I posted above (Jerusalem: A Biography). It's got the entire history of the city in narrative form from ancient times until today, and I could not put it down.

[Patrick Chewing]

How do you "Get your shit together" when you can't participate in international business because a rival nation controls your borders, and you can't access the natural resources of your nation because a rival nation says the money will finance "terrorism"? There's literally no outlet for folks in Gaza to legitimately improve their economy. In the West Bank, Israel controls all building permits and will not issue them to Palestinians, so Palestinians can't develop their land and are eventually forced to sell. If they build without a permit, Israel bulldozes it.

How do you :get your shit together" under these circumstances? Palestinians exist as a source of cheap labor for Israelis, and a controlled market for Israeli products (Remember, Israel controls what goes in and out....so overpriced Israeli goods are primarily what is available). Meanwhile, Israel is getting billions of dollars a year straight from the US government. Very easy to "get your shit together" when you get free cash from Uncle Sam, and let Jews from other countries hide their cash from taxes in Israel! (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israeli-bank-fined-nearly-1-billion-in-us-tax-evasion-money-laundering-cases/2020/05/01/855bc218-8b72-11ea-9dfd-990f9dcc71fc_story.html)

If you are actually at all interested in learning something, instead of just running your mouth, I'd suggest reading this book: https://www.amazon.com/Jerusalem-Biography-Simon-Sebag-Montefiore/dp/0307280500. The author is the scion of an old Jewish banking family that built ~1/4 of Jerusalem, and it's a very unbiased account of the history of the city (ancient and modern).

You can start by not having Hamas represent you. A terrorist organization. You've avoided that simple fact this whole time. So when Israel says that the money will finance terrorism, they are correct. The plight of the Palestinian is not on Israel. Honestly, I don't care about that region that much. I have a strong aversion to terrorism though. Especially Islamic terrorism. So it's very hard for me to have any sympathy towards Palestine. And like I said, not to many of their Arab neighbors care about Palestine either.

[Mr. Woke]

Israel and Palestine are terrorist states who need to be nuked to oblivion.

[ralph_i_el]

You can start by not having Hamas represent you. A terrorist organization. You've avoided that simple fact this whole time. So when Israel says that the money will finance terrorism, they are correct. The plight of the Palestinian is not on Israel. Honestly, I don't care about that region that much. I have a strong aversion to terrorism though. Especially Islamic terrorism. So it's very hard for me to have any sympathy towards Palestine. And like I said, not to many of their Arab neighbors care about Palestine either.

Why do you think Hamas is in charge? Can you tell me about who was in charge before them? Hamas isn't in charge of the West Bank or East Jerusalem btw...

Did you miss the bit up top where the Israeli ruling party brought Kahanists into government under the name of the "Religious Zionist Party" (their previous party was banned for terrorism!). Did you know one of the acts that got Israel independence from the UK was a terrorist bombing of a hotel, planned by Israel's first PM David Ben-Gurion? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

[ralph_i_el]

Israel has nukes that they won't officially admit to having, and they refuse to sign any international deals not to sell nukes. They also have a plan to nuke the entire middle east if they are going to lose their pure Jewish State. So civilized! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Wait, who are the terrorists again?

[FultzNationRISE]

It's so weird how this dude hates when his country oppresses other countries which he has no reason to give a shit about...

But when they bend over him and/or "the workers" in his OWN country... in the name of BLM, Covid, Russia, whatever nonsense propaganda they come up with to further the interests of the 1%... he's like, totally supportive. He cheers for it and screams about how awful the Orange Reality Show Man is and goes full parrot to prove to everyone he knows how to be what the smarterer group is should supposed to be bc of like **** teh nazis yo!

Like, they make him think he's smart for supporting public manipulation and suppression of freedom in his own country, against his interests. And it works to a tee, he takes the bait and think he's got smart ideas, which are actually just gulped down propaganda pounded into his head through academia and media, both of which are funded and filtered by the 1%.

And then ofc they dont really care what he opposes about what they do abroad cuz he's not gonna stop them over there.


****in backward ass moron, thinkin he's some kind of sophisticated luminary of political thought :roll:

[ralph_i_el]

If you think knowing the basic history of the things you talk about is pretentious, that says more about you than me.

Where have I been supportive of the 1% in America? You're talking out your ass. You can tell when someone doesn't know what they are talking about, because they will never bring up specifics.

To make a point you need:
1. A claim
2. Evidence
3. Analysis

Hope this helps you make some ****ing sense in the future!

[FultzNationRISE]

If you think knowing the basic history of the things you talk about is pretentious, that says more about you.

Did I say talk about, or care about?

You cry about everything under the sun EXCEPT the massive FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MACHINE constantly tilting the balance of wealth in your OWN country.

Why? Because it's predominantly the left that's doing it. And they propagate the message that if you oppose them, you're an evil racist bigot transphobe hitler buzzword buzzword islamaphobe thought criminal buzzword. And it intimidates people who don't want to be disapproved of, like certain so-called communists who want to keep their mobility options open in capitalist corporate america, ya know, just in case they decide "everyone is equal but some are more equal than others."

And you take the bait, repeat the double speak, and fail to achieve any of the things you think you're actually about. Because you're not about them, because they're not even logically consistent. But ofc this conclusion is too far down the line of logic for you, so you stop well short and carry on your merry way.

[Patrick Chewing]

Why do you think Hamas is in charge? Can you tell me about who was in charge before them? Hamas isn't in charge of the West Bank or East Jerusalem btw...

Did you miss the bit up top where the Israeli ruling party brought Kahanists into government under the name of the "Religious Zionist Party" (their previous party was banned for terrorism!). Did you know one of the acts that got Israel independence from the UK was a terrorist bombing of a hotel, planned by Israel's first PM David Ben-Gurion? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

So it's all Israel's fault?? :roll:

[ralph_i_el]

@Fultz

The shitlibs you are mad at all support Israel lol. I've been very upfront with the fact that liberals would take social issues like BLM, feminism, LGBTQ, and use them to divide workers and support capital. It doesn't mean that the social problems are fake or contrived...they're just being run through the filter of money and power (like you said) Liberals AND conservatives in power use these issues to line up workers on opposite sides and keep them from uniting. I'm a registered Republican, gun owning Christian who is married to a woman. I just happen to be pro-worker and anti-oppression and the Dems have been materially better on the issues that impact me in recent elections. I don't think the Dems even really want to have power in the end. They're the Washington Generals imo.

You and I have a similar assessment on a lot of America's political problems. I'm curious as to how you would describe your political ideology.

[ralph_i_el]

So it's all Israel's fault?? :roll:

Israel funded the forerunners of Hamas because they wanted to undermine the secular leftists who were in charge of Palestine in negotiations with Israel (the PLO). Looks like that plan came back to bite them. Similar to the US funding Bin Laden to fight the Soviets. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847&ved=2ahUKEwitmJPnz8fwAhVyFVkFHbNNAOkQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw29ew9YW3EK4oDGp1f6IsbV

I really think you should check out that book on Jerusalem I recommend, if you are curious as to how it got to this point.

[FultzNationRISE]

@Fultz

The shitlibs you are mad at all support Israel lol. I've been very upfront with the fact that liberals would take social issues like BLM, feminism, LGBTQ, and use them to divide workers and support capital. It doesn't mean that the social problems are fake or contrived...they're just being run through the filter of money and power (like you said) Liberals AND conservatives in power use these issues to line up workers on opposite sides and keep them from uniting. I'm a registered Republican, gun owning Christian who is married to a woman. I just happen to be pro-worker and anti-oppression and the Dems have been materially better on the issues that impact me in recent elections. I don't think the Dems even really want to have power in the end. They're the Washington Generals imo.

You and I have a similar assessment on a lot of America's political problems. I'm curious as to how you would describe your political ideology.

It’s complicated but Ill try to write it out when I have a chance to think over how I wanna explain it

[Nanners]

@Fultz

The shitlibs you are mad at all support Israel lol. I've been very upfront with the fact that liberals would take social issues like BLM, feminism, LGBTQ, and use them to divide workers and support capital. It doesn't mean that the social problems are fake or contrived...they're just being run through the filter of money and power (like you said) Liberals AND conservatives in power use these issues to line up workers on opposite sides and keep them from uniting. I'm a registered Republican, gun owning Christian who is married to a woman. I just happen to be pro-worker and anti-oppression and the Dems have been materially better on the issues that impact me in recent elections. I don't think the Dems even really want to have power in the end. They're the Washington Generals imo.

You and I have a similar assessment on a lot of America's political problems. I'm curious as to how you would describe your political ideology.

:applause:

I think you have things 99% correct here... the one thing I would say differently is that while the dems absolutely played the role of Washington Generals until Trump, the parties have recently switched roles and now the dems are now the Harlem Globetrotters.