92' Blazers and 91' Lakers had better defense, rebs, and FAR more scorers than Bulls

[3ball]

Those Blazers had 2 all-star scorers after Drexler, while a 3rd scorer (Jerome Kersey) actually led the team in scoring for the 90' Western Playoffs - this allowed Drexler to average only 18 while making those Finals (stacked team).

In addition to having four scorers to only 2 for the Bulls, the Blazers had perennial all-defender Buck Williams, who was far superior to Grant.

And the 91' Lakers had 4 guys average 17+ in the Finals - Pippen was nearly matched by a hobbled Worthy, while Grant and every role player beneath him was outplayed..

[mehyaM24]

the 91 lakers were hobbled. worthy & scott missed a game a piece, which is big because 3 out of 5 games that series were close.

[3ball]

the 91 lakers were hobbled. worthy & scott missed a game a piece, which is big because 3 out of 5 games that series were close.


I agree that the Bulls might've lost if Worthy was healthy - there's only so much MJ can do and Pippen was at capacity... Maybe Jordan would've averaged 41 like the 93' Finals when he was outmatched by even more.

Nonetheless, the 91' Lakers had 4 guys average 17+ in the Finals - Pippen was nearly matched by a hobbled Worthy, while Grant and every role player beneath him was outplayed.

[AirBonner]

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[3ball]

1-9


The reason I'm posting this is because a lot of people excuse losing due to inferior cast... But the Bulls' cast was inferior to the 92' Blazers or 91' Lakers on both sides of the ball, while the 93' Suns or 96' Sonics had nearly equal defenses and vastly superior offensive casts..

The reality is that only MJ won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load (carry-job) - people don't realize this, even though it differentiates him from everyone.. (edit: Kobe and Hakeem have 2 carry-jobs)

[mehyaM24]

I agree that the Bulls might've lost if Worthy was healthy

Nonetheless, the 91' Lakers had 4 guys average 17+ in the Finals - Pippen was nearly matched by a hobbled Worthy, while Grant and every role player beneath him was outplayed.






The reason I'm posting this is because a lot of people excuse the 10' Cavs for losing because their cast was inferior.. But the Bulls' cast was inferior to the 92' Blazers or 91' Lakers on both sides of the ball, while the 93' Suns or 96' Sonics had nearly equal defenses and vastly superior offensive casts..

The reality is that only MJ won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load (carry-job) - people don't realize this, even though it differentiates him from everyone.. (edit: Kobe and Hakeem have 2 carry-jobs)

pippen averaged 7 assists to worthy's 2. and 7 rebounds to worthy's 3. their production isn't as close like you think it is. not sure a healthy lakers win that series, but they definitely make it more interesting. still, its one of jordan's impressive performances. the fact he only had 1 less assist than magic, while outscoring him by 12 is remarkable.

[8Ball]

One of the worst finals teams of all time. Both of them.

I'd rank them next to the 2001 Philly and 2002 Nets teams.

[3ball]

pippen averaged 7 assists to worthy's 2. and 7 rebounds to worthy's 3. their production isn't as close like you think it is. not sure a healthy lakers win that series, but they definitely make it more interesting. still, its one of jordan's impressive performances. the fact he only had 1 less assist than magic, while outscoring him by 12 is remarkable.


there's only so much MJ can do and Pippen was at capacity in the 91' Finals

so I'm not sure the Bulls win against a healthy Worthy, who is capable of completely dominating.

Maybe Jordan would've averaged 41 like the 93' Finals when he was outmatched by even more.

[3ball]

One of the worst finals teams of all time. Both of them.

I'd rank them next to the 2001 Philly and 2002 Nets teams.


The 91' Bulls were worse (scoring, defense, rebounding) than the 91' Lakers or 92' Blazers.....

if not for MJ

Btw, the Nets and Philly were 1-star teams, whereas the 91' Lakers were a 2-star team and the 92' Blazers had numerous all-stars and more good players than the bulls

[mehyaM24]

there's only so much MJ can do and Pippen was at capacity in the 91' Finals

so I'm not sure the Bulls win against a healthy Worthy, who is capable of completely dominating.

Maybe Jordan would've averaged 41 like the 93' Finals when he was outmatched by even more.

in your opinion, is the 93 ring more impressive than his 1st? outplaying magic is no joke but neither is 41 a game. and back then, barkley's offensive impact was as good as anyone.

[3ball]

in your opinion, is the 93 ring more impressive than his 1st? outplaying magic is no joke but neither is 41 a game. and back then, barkley's offensive impact was as good as anyone.


93' was his most impressive ring because teammates were on their last legs for the 3rd run, so Jordan employed super-high volume to win, similar to the 98' Playoffs.. both the 93' and 98' runs were total carry-jobs

Pippen had a 2.0 BPM in the 93' playoffs, with lower PER, WS/48 and pace-adjusted scoring than 14' Wade, and lower across the board than 13' Wade (BPM, VORP, PER, WS/48).. Jordan averaged 37 in Round 1 to carry the Bull, while Pippen averaged 15 on 33% and got destroyed by Nique and Willis.. then he shot 45% true shooting in the Finals and let rookie Dumas go off (Dumas won Game 5 to extend the series).. He missed critical clutch shots and let Jordan score every point in the 4th quarter of Game 6 until the Paxson shot

[mehyaM24]

93' was his most impressive ring because teammates were on their last legs for the 3rd run, so Jordan employed super-high volume to win, similar to the 98' Playoffs.. both the 93' and 98' runs were total carry-jobs

Pippen had a 2.0 BPM in the 93' playoffs, with lower PER, WS/48 and pace-adjusted scoring than 14' Wade, and lower across the board than 13' Wade (BPM, VORP, PER, WS/48).. Jordan averaged 37 in Round 1 to carry the Bull, while Pippen averaged 15 on 33% and got destroyed by Nique and Willis.. then he shot 45% true shooting in the Finals and let rookie Dumas go off (Dumas won Game 5 to extend the series).. He missed critical clutch shots and let Jordan score every point in the 4th quarter of Game 6 until the Paxson shot

wasn't pippen hurt in 93? he played most of the regular-season but i remember reading he was hobbled much of that year. regardless i agree that in the finals, jordan carried a heavy scoring load. and not surprised by the wade comparison either. you could argue some of pippen's best playoff runs over 12 and 13 wade. but wade kicks his ass overall.

[TheCorporation]

Is this the MJ stain's last stand? Attempting to prop up the Terry Porter Blazers or the Magic AIDS Lakers?


Is this all you have left to cling to?


My, how the mighty have fallen.

https://i.postimg.cc/sgqSfpMP/Well-well-well.png

[mehyaM24]

come on pal. magic didn't have HIV then. in fact, he had one of his best offensive seasons that year. jordan proved he was just a better player.

[TheCorporation]

come on pal. magic didn't have HIV then. in fact, he had one of his best offensive seasons that year. jordan proved he was just a better player.

Magic literally did have AIDS and announced his retirement after the Finals. He left the sport after 1991.

Also, James Worthy was banged up and missed a game and so did Byron Scott. Worthy was the #1 option on that squad too.

And most importantly, who TF guarded Jordan in the 1991 Finals? LeBron faced straight up dogs every year in the Finals on defense.

Who TF guarded Jordan? Sam Perkins? Byron Scott? Come on man. Watch those 1991 Finals again. That defense was the worst I've seen for a Finals series.

[ShawkFactory]

The reason I'm posting this is because a lot of people excuse losing due to inferior cast... But the Bulls' cast was inferior to the 92' Blazers or 91' Lakers on both sides of the ball, while the 93' Suns or 96' Sonics had nearly equal defenses and vastly superior offensive casts..

The reality is that only MJ won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load (carry-job) - people don't realize this, even though it differentiates him from everyone.. (edit: Kobe and Hakeem have 2 carry-jobs)

Lol what?

[HoopsNY]

there's only so much MJ can do and Pippen was at capacity in the 91' Finals

so I'm not sure the Bulls win against a healthy Worthy, who is capable of completely dominating.

Maybe Jordan would've averaged 41 like the 93' Finals when he was outmatched by even more.

Imagine how obsessed one has to be to claim that a healthy Worthy would have resulted in Chicago losing, all in an effort to diminish Pippen's elite contribution to the '91 finals team. Worthy still played 4/5 games, putting up 19 pts on 48% shooting.

Stop being delusional. Pippen was the man in that finals and Chicago wins regardless. That was arguably Pippen's best playoffs and finals performance, so you're talking about 2 elite stars dominating and no amount from contribution of Worthy would have made a difference.

Your hatred for Pippen is beyond extreme, to the point of discrediting what was an amazing performance.

[SouBeachTalents]

Imagine how obsessed one has to be to claim that a healthy Worthy would have resulted in Chicago losing, all in an effort to diminish Pippen's elite contribution to the '91 finals team. Worthy still played 4/5 games, putting up 19 pts on 48% shooting.

Stop being delusional. Pippen was the man in that finals and Chicago wins regardless. That was arguably Pippen's best playoffs and finals performance, so you're talking about 2 elite stars dominating and no amount from contribution of Worthy would have made a difference.

Your hatred for Pippen is beyond extreme, to the point of discrediting what was an amazing performance.
Yep, capped it all off dropping 32/13/7/5 to clinch the title


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXeqtmJlmU

[DABIGSALSISHA]

1-9

4/18

j.j.

[DABIGSALSISHA]

Is this the MJ stain's last stand? Attempting to prop up the Terry Porter Blazers or the Magic AIDS Lakers?


Is this all you have left to cling to?



My, how the mighty have fallen.

https://i.postimg.cc/sgqSfpMP/Well-well-well.png

https://benkatman.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/jj_1.jpg
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2DDD41C/no-film-no-video-no-tv-no-documentary-the-san-antonio-spurs-tony-parker-9-drives-to-the-basket-for-a-score-against-the-miami-heats-lebron-james-in-game-1-of-the-nba-finals-at-americanairlines-arena-in-miami-fl-usa-on-june-6-2013-photo-by-allen-eyestonethe-palm-beach-postmctabacapresscom-2DDD41C.jpg
https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/807/720/hi-res-7b7747ebfc2e1d31dc8c23a02b1061ae_crop_north.jpg?15 57584168&w=3072&h=2048
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/56/53/17/12235718/3/rawImage.jpg

It's too late for you QUEEN to learn how to play defense in her career now.

4/18

[3ball]

no amount from contribution of Worthy would have made a difference.





Worthy averaged 31 on 62% at his peak, so the Lakers would've won if he did that..

Worthy was #1 option on the Lakers for b2b championship runs (87' and 88'), including many dominant series that were better than Pippen ever played .. You simply aren't aware that Worthy was better than Pippen and dominated series the same way Kawhi or KD dominate.

Otoh, Pippen was at capacity in that series, so if Worthy was healthy, I'm not sure Jordan would've averaged the 40 needed to win.. He did it in 93', so maybe he would've done it again






an amazing performance


.


Stop lying.. That was Pippen's best series like you said, yet he only averaged 21/8/7, which is a top 1000 peak

Pippen produced at a 2nd option level and frequently below that, which forced MJ to have the goat production rate and win an unprecedented way (scoring champ carry-jobs)

Jordan is the only player in history that won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load for the playoffs and Finals... (edit: Hakeem and Kobe have 2 carry-jobs each)..

Ultimately, Jordan doubled Pippen's playoff scoring average while assisting 33% more often and getting more DPOY votes every year - only Jordan had to carry such a load.

[3ball]

Lol what?


Suns had the #9 defense... Bulls had the #7 defense

So comparable defenses, but the Suns had far more scorers, the Jordan had to average 40 to win

Similarly, the 96' Sonics had the #2 defense (bulls #1) - so the defense was close, but the Sonics had far more scorers

[aj1987]

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[3ball]

1-9





Jordan didn't win without Pippen, but Lebron didn't win without BEING the "pippen" to AD, or without super-teams (2 perennial all-star teammates).

So Lebron needed more help to win titles and he also needed more help to make the playoffs or have deep runs - he needed high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes to make the playoffs or have deep runs, while MJ made the playoffs and had deep runs with a low seed and no help (89').

To summarize - Lebron needs more help to win titles (super-team or play 2nd fiddle) and he also needs more help make the playoffs or have deep runs (high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes).

[SouBeachTalents]

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[3ball]

Yep, capped it all off dropping 32/13/7/5 to clinch the title


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBXeqtmJlmU


^^^ Top 1000 peak

Imagine 32 and 7 assists being the best playoff game you ever played!!!

:yaohappy:

Top 30 doh... :facepalm:

The worst part is that his 32 points was in the only game that Worthy didn't play - so Pippen didn't have to guard anyone as Jordan guarded Magic for all of Games 1, 4, and 5

[97 bulls]

^^^ Top 1000 peak

Imagine 32 and 7 assists being the best playoff game you ever played!!!

:yaohappy:

Top 30 doh... :facepalm:

32 points, 7 assists, and 5 steals and 13 rebounds, while being the best defender (Pippen led the playoffs in defensive rating in 91) is an awesome accomplishment.

[97 bulls]

I also wish these clowns would lay off the Worthy injury argument. Worrhy had a minor ankle sprain according to Gary Viti (the lakers Dr). This was in a Los Angeles Times article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-05-30-sp-3578-story.html%3f_amp=truee

"He doesn’t have an apparent injury,” trainer Gary Vitti said. “There’s no hitch in his gait. But as soon as he starts to bear weight, to explode off it, that’s when the trouble starts."

Besides, no other teams has ever had so much scrutiny because a key player was "injured" or missing for the other team like the Bulls. All these teams get full credit for their finals Championships in spite of key players either being missing or injured

82 Lakers beat the Sixers without Moses Malone
83 Sixers beat the Lakers without James Worthy who had a season ending injury.
84 Celtics beat the Lakers who lost Jamal Wilkes to an injury
85 Lakers beat the Celtics with Larry Bird hurting his hand in a bar fight and Cedric Maxwell going down with a season ending injury.
87 Lakers beat the Celtics with Kevin McHale playing on a fractured foot
88 Lakers beat the Pistons with Isaiah Thomas hurting his ankle
89 Pistons beat the Lakers with Magic and Byron Scott both going down.

I'm sure if I went back and looked, every team that has won, has beat a team that had key players injured or missing along the way. And let's not even get on players being too old or too young.

[Ne 1]

The reason I'm posting this is because a lot of people excuse losing due to inferior cast... But the Bulls' cast was inferior to the 92' Blazers or 91' Lakers on both sides of the ball, while the 93' Suns or 96' Sonics had nearly equal defenses and vastly superior offensive casts..

The reality is that only MJ won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load (carry-job) - people don't realize this, even though it differentiates him from everyone.. (edit: Kobe and Hakeem have 2 carry-jobs)

"a lot of people" are you 😂 Jordan’s 2 first round sweeps vs Boston and 3 straight losses to Detroit are ALWAYS excused by MJ stand due to inferior casts.... "Carry jobs" aren't real 😂😂😂😂

[And1AllDay]

Magic literally did have AIDS and announced his retirement after the Finals. He left the sport after 1991.

Also, James Worthy was banged up and missed a game and so did Byron Scott. Worthy was the #1 option on that squad too.

And most importantly, who TF guarded Jordan in the 1991 Finals? LeBron faced straight up dogs every year in the Finals on defense.

Who TF guarded Jordan? Sam Perkins? Byron Scott? Come on man. Watch those 1991 Finals again. That defense was the worst I've seen for a Finals series.

:oldlol:

90s defense was turrible

[ShawkFactory]

Let's look at players 2-4 on each of these respective teams just for fun.

1991 Bulls

WS/48:
Grant- .188
Pippen- .179
Paxon .140

BPM/VORP
Pippen- 5.8/5.9
Grant- 2.5/2.3
Paxon- 0.3/1.1

1991 Lakers

WS/48
Vlade- .173
Perkins- .153
Worthy- .143

BPM/VORP
Worthy- 2.5/3.4
Vlade- 2.3/2.5
Scott- 0.9/2.0

And you yourself admitted that Worthy was hurt in the finals. I mean the Bulls cast was clearly better despite that, but given the injury it's 91 Bulls > Lakers without question.

1992 Bulls

WS/48
Grant- .237
Pippen- .198
Armstrong- .117

BPM/VORP
Pippen- 6.1/6.4
Grant- 5.3/5.2
Armstrong- 0.6/0.7

1992 Blazers

WS/48
Porter- .182
Williams- .175
Kersey- .128

BPM/VORP
Porter- 3.7/4.0
Kersey- 1.7/2.4
Williams- 1.2/2.0

This one isn't even close. 92 Bulls >>>

1993 Bulls

WS/48
Grant- .159
Armstrong .144
Pippen- .132

BPM/VORP
Pippen- 4.0/4.7
Grant- 1.8/2.6
Armstrong- 0.2/1.4

1993 Suns

WS/48
Ceballos- .186
KJ- .148
Majerle- .147


BPM/VORP
Majerle- 2.5/3.6
Ceballos- 2.4/1.8
KJ- 2.0/1.6

So this one is a little closer. But I'll give the edge to the Bulls because they have clearly the best #2.

In summary: The Bulls supporting casts from 91-93 were better than each of their finals adversaries'.

[ImKobe]

:oldlol:

90s defense was turrible

NBA has broken records in ORTG for 5 straight seasons, it has never been easier to put up numbers.

[HoopsNY]

I also wish these clowns would lay off the Worthy injury argument. Worrhy had a minor ankle sprain according to Gary Viti (the lakers Dr). This was in a Los Angeles Times article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-05-30-sp-3578-story.html%3f_amp=truee

"He doesn’t have an apparent injury,” trainer Gary Vitti said. “There’s no hitch in his gait. But as soon as he starts to bear weight, to explode off it, that’s when the trouble starts."

Besides, no other teams has ever had so much scrutiny because a key player was "injured" or missing for the other team like the Bulls. All these teams get full credit for their finals Championships in spite of key players either being missing or injured

82 Lakers beat the Sixers without Moses Malone
83 Sixers beat the Lakers without James Worthy who had a season ending injury.
84 Celtics beat the Lakers who lost Jamal Wilkes to an injury
85 Lakers beat the Celtics with Larry Bird hurting his hand in a bar fight and Cedric Maxwell going down with a season ending injury.
87 Lakers beat the Celtics with Kevin McHale playing on a fractured foot
88 Lakers beat the Pistons with Isaiah Thomas hurting his ankle
89 Pistons beat the Lakers with Magic and Byron Scott both going down.

I'm sure if I went back and looked, every team that has won, has beat a team that had key players injured or missing along the way. And let's not even get on players being too old or too young.

Excellent point.

[Ne 1]

Jordan didn't win without Pippen, but Lebron didn't win without BEING the "pippen" to AD, or without super-teams (2 perennial all-star teammates).

So Lebron needed more help to win titles and he also needed more help to make the playoffs or have deep runs - he needed high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes to make the playoffs or have deep runs, while MJ made the playoffs and had deep runs with a low seed and no help (89').

To summarize - Lebron needs more help to win titles (super-team or play 2nd fiddle) and he also needs more help make the playoffs or have deep runs (high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes).


Pippen ain't never won a ring being the leading scorer in the Finals or won Finals MVP... Not even close, pick another comparison man that one is horrible 😂😂😂😂😂

[JBSptfn]

One of the worst finals teams of all time. Both of them.

I'd rank them next to the 2001 Philly and 2002 Nets teams.

Are you serious?