Other than Lebron, has anyone ever been widely recognized as better than Jordan?

[iamgine]

If we do a poll now, 40-60% will say Lebron is better than MJ. Has anyone else after 1998 been widely recognized as better than Jordan, even for a brief period? Perhaps 2000 Shaq? Or mid 00 Kobe? Curry? Anyone remember?

[8Ball]

2000-2002 Shaq was there but he didn't do it for long enough.

Maybe 1984-1986 Bird but that was short.

[Spurs m8]

Lol its not even close to being widely recognised.

Stop this false ISH narrative hahahah

It doesn't apply irl

[SouBeachTalents]

The polls I've seen have Jordan with much more of the vote than that, usually around 70-75%. The guys you mentioned def got some consideration, but just in terms of actual production and resume LeBron's come significantly closer than anybody has since Jordan's last title. It could be a very long time before we see someone even approach Jordan's ranking again

[8Ball]

Lol its not even close to being widely recognised.

Stop this false ISH narrative hahahah

It doesn't apply irl

It is.

Half basketball fans say LeBron.

The old farts that say Jordan that dont watch modern NBA are dying off every year from old age and covid.

[kawhileonard2]

It is.

Half basketball fans say LeBron.

The old farts that say Jordan that dont watch modern NBA are dying off every year from old age and covid.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

[Airupthere]

Widely recognized? Only on ish will it be close.

[TAZORAC]

Shaq was the most dominate player in NBA history before Lebron came of age.

Meaning you could have put Shaq on a roster full of college allstars and they could have been title contenders.

[And1AllDay]

2000-2002 Shaq was there but he didn't do it for long enough.

Maybe 1984-1986 Bird but that was short.

+1 this

[dankok8]

Jordan's retired a long time ago now. Every time a lot of time passes, the legend fades.

[And1AllDay]

until we see another cat pass the 7500 playoff mark like bran, no we will not see it.

[2much_knowledge]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

Well damn. Like porky pig said...... Thats all folks

[ImKobe]

Jordan's retired a long time ago now. Every time a lot of time passes, the legend fades.

This. Fans who grew up with Lebron have little to no connection to MJ, to them he's just a legend from a past era, and no one's going to pick the previous era over the one they grew up loving basketball in.

[deathawaitu]

Maybe probably 20 people in the world think Lebron is better than Jordan

Then again there’s a reason why these same people are flipping burgers

[Hey Yo]

Maybe probably 20 people in the world think Lebron is better than Jordan

Then again there’s a reason why these same people are flipping burgers
So you think LeBron's better, huh.


Hold the pickles on my order.

[BigShotBob]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

[TheMan]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

/thread

Every online poll shows it's not even a contest between the two, MJ demolishes LBJ, only on ISH it's a contest because Simon owns dozens of alts :( Poor fella

[TheMan]

This. Fans who grew up with Lebron have little to no connection to MJ, to them he's just a legend from a past era, and no one's going to pick the previous era over the one they grew up loving basketball in.

That ESPN poll tells a different story, 66% of the younger crowd, 18-34, still pick MJ over LBJ for GOAT :confusedshrug:

Care to explain?

[8Ball]

Jordan's retired a long time ago now. Every time a lot of time passes, the legend fades.

Are you crazy?

The legend of Jordan has grown. It's like a religion. People that have never seen him play are telling the world he never lost a basketball game.

[BigShotBob]

Are you crazy?

The legend of Jordan has grown. It's like a religion. People that have never seen him play are telling the world he never lost a basketball game.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

[bullettooth]

What kind of idiot thinks a 6 time NBA finals loser is better than a 6 time NBA finals winner?

[TheCorporation]

Hi, just checking in to see if anyone passed the 7,500 point GOAT mark yet?

No?

Carry on :pimp:

[FKAri]

Jordan's retired a long time ago now. Every time a lot of time passes, the legend fades.

Agreed. He will be surpassed in many's eyes eventually. Whether rightfully or not. Simply because of time.

[TheCorporation]

https://i.ibb.co/SnxyF7L/Goat-Things-Above-All23baby.jpg

[Axe]

What kind of idiot thinks a 6 time NBA finals loser is better than a 6 time NBA finals winner?
1-9 and no pip, no chip.

[Indian guy]

Not many may remember this now, but Kobe during the height of his scoring explosions ('06 and '07) got some favorable comparisons to MJ. Not from a career/legacy standpoint like we see with LeBron/MJ now, but there was plenty of talk back then about whether Kobe was a better scorer than MJ.

That's really it. Shaq was amazing from 00-02, but nobody was comparing him to MJ. 2 completely different players.

[Axe]

Not many may remember this now, but Kobe during the height of his scoring explosions ('06 and '07) got some favorable comparisons to MJ. Not from a career/legacy standpoint like we see with LeBron/MJ now, but there was plenty of talk back then about whether Kobe was a better scorer than MJ.

That's really it. Shaq was amazing from 00-02, but nobody was comparing him to MJ. 2 completely different players.
Shaq carried the magic to the finals in his third season. Mj never did something like that until he got tree trunk and the zen master.

[3ball]

Are you crazy?

The legend of Jordan has grown. It's like a religion. People that have never seen him play are telling the world he never lost a basketball game.


It's the exact opposite

Jordan's legacy has been tarnished by false narratives pushed by Clutch Sports operatives in the media

Before Clutch Sports, the 90's Bulls were viewed by many as a 1-man team because Jordan is the only player that won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load in the playoffs and Finals (carry-jobs)..

Edit: Kobe and Hakeem have 2 carry-job rings, but none much as Jordan's.. Jordan's soring champ carry-jobs were unprecedented, yet now many new fans say he was infact carried by his role-playing teammates.

[ShawkFactory]

It's the exact opposite

Jordan's legacy has been tarnished by false narratives pushed by Clutch Sports operatives in the media

Before Clutch Sports, the 90's Bulls were viewed by many as a 1-man team because Jordan is the only player that won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load in the playoffs and Finals (carry-jobs)..

Edit: Kobe and Hakeem have 2 carry-job rings, but none much as Jordan's.. Jordan's soring champ carry-jobs were unprecedented, yet now many new fans say he was infact carried by his role-playing teammates.

Jesus Christ :roll:

[Bronbron23]

If we do a poll now, 40-60% will say Lebron is better than MJ. Has anyone else after 1998 been widely recognized as better than Jordan, even for a brief period? Perhaps 2000 Shaq? Or mid 00 Kobe? Curry? Anyone remember?

The delusion is real. Literally in every poll mj is recognized as the goat or better.

[2much_knowledge]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

Exhibit A

[2much_knowledge]

Not many may remember this now, but Kobe during the height of his scoring explosions ('06 and '07) got some favorable comparisons to MJ. Not from a career/legacy standpoint like we see with LeBron/MJ now, but there was plenty of talk back then about whether Kobe was a better scorer than MJ.

That's really it. Shaq was amazing from 00-02, but nobody was comparing him to MJ. 2 completely different players.

They suppose to remember. That wasn't so long ago. 2003, 2007 and 2010 the media was pushing the comparison hard. I remember

[Spurs m8]

Exhibit A

Jesus christ...and its not even close.
And LeTurnover didn't even win one hahahah

The basketball fans have spoken


MIKE BRON
Better sneaker for fashion 79% 21%
Better sneaker to ball in 77% 23%
Pick for game-winning shot 76% 24%
Come through in the clutch 74% 26%
Spectacular to watch play 74% 26%
Better player overall 73% 27%
NBA was better all-around 71% 29%
Win one-on-one to 21 67% 33%
Top pick to start a team 66% 34%
Better offensive player 65% 35%
Better 'look' 65% 35%
Have a drink with 65% 35%
Choose as a teammate 63% 37%
Positive impact off-court 62% 38%
Better defensive player 59% 41%
Better passer 59% 41%
Trust to pass you the ball 57% 43%

Widely accepted though.. guys

Hahahahhahhahaha

[paksat]

shaq was more unstoppable then jordan ever was, but no it wasn't discussed in the same regard.

nike and pretty much all media did a spectacular job building him up to be something of a folklore at this point. The truth is he was a great ball player, but when people say you couldn't touch jordan they're pretty much correct. Even very early in his career it holds true, just watch the game he scored 63 vs the celtics in his second season. There's tons of ghost fouls in that game.

the nba basically decided they needed a hulk hogan in their sport, he just happened to be that guy really. A lot of it had to do with how he carried himself and spoke in public, how he dressed, etc.

it made it really easy to market him

[TAZORAC]

This. Fans who grew up with Lebron have little to no connection to MJ, to them he's just a legend from a past era, and no one's going to pick the previous era over the one they grew up loving basketball in.

Anybody who's seen Kobe Bryant play, as basically seen Jordan play. It's like Ken and Ryu from the video game Street Fighter. Their virtually the same, Jordan was quicker in his prime and could attack the rim better, Kobe was a better 3 point shooter.

I'm in my 40s, seen both Jordan and James play, James is the better player.

[BigShotBob]

Anybody who's seen Kobe Bryant play, as basically seen Jordan play. It's like Ken and Ryu from the video game Street Fighter. Their virtually the same, Jordan was quicker in his prime and could attack the rim better, Kobe was a better 3 point shooter.

I'm in my 40s, seen both Jordan and James play, James is the better player.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2007234

[BigShotBob]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2007234

Better sneaker for fashion 79% 21%
Better sneaker to ball in 77% 23%
Pick for game-winning shot 76% 24%
Come through in the clutch 74% 26%
Spectacular to watch play 74% 26%
Better player overall 73% 27%
NBA was better all-around 71% 29%
Win one-on-one to 21 67% 33%
Top pick to start a team 66% 34%
Better offensive player 65% 35%
Better 'look' 65% 35%
Have a drink with 65% 35%
Choose as a teammate 63% 37%
Positive impact off-court 62% 38%
Better defensive player 59% 41%
Better passer 59% 41%
Trust to pass you the ball 57% 43%

[1987_Lakers]

Better sneaker for fashion 79% 21%
Better sneaker to ball in 77% 23%
Pick for game-winning shot 76% 24%
Come through in the clutch 74% 26%
Spectacular to watch play 74% 26%
Better player overall 73% 27%
NBA was better all-around 71% 29%
Win one-on-one to 21 67% 33%
Top pick to start a team 66% 34%
Better offensive player 65% 35%
Better 'look' 65% 35%
Have a drink with 65% 35%
Choose as a teammate 63% 37%
Positive impact off-court 62% 38%
Better defensive player 59% 41%
Better passer 59% 41%
Trust to pass you the ball 57% 43%

:roll:

[Spurs m8]

Still blows my mind anyone would consider LeCarried as anywhere near the GOAT.

like, in what actual universe is he even close? :roll::roll:

[HoopsNY]

Shaq carried the magic to the finals in his third season. Mj never did something like that until he got tree trunk and the zen master.

True, but Orlando was stacked. Horace Grant was their 3rd best player coming off of a peak year where he was an All-Star and All-Defensive 2nd team. Scott, Penny, Anderson, and Shaq were all capable scorers. Orlando had the #1 offense that year.

[HoopsNY]

It's the exact opposite

Jordan's legacy has been tarnished by false narratives pushed by Clutch Sports operatives in the media

Before Clutch Sports, the 90's Bulls were viewed by many as a 1-man team because Jordan is the only player that won more than 1 ring while carrying the scoring load in the playoffs and Finals (carry-jobs)..

Edit: Kobe and Hakeem have 2 carry-job rings, but none much as Jordan's.. Jordan's soring champ carry-jobs were unprecedented, yet now many new fans say he was infact carried by his role-playing teammates.

Bro I am an 80s baby and grew up watching the league almost the entire 90s decade. Chicago was not seen as a 1 man team. That's a lie. Pippen was highly regarded as one of the best players in the league, especially from 1992-97.

[HoopsNY]

Still blows my mind anyone would consider LeCarried as anywhere near the GOAT.

like, in what actual universe is he even close? :roll::roll:

He's top 5. You can't ignore that. You can be objective in this conversation and admit that much.

[Airupthere]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29187444/michael-jordan-better-lebron-james-every-way-says-poll-nba-fans

This is inline with what I expected talking to people outside of ISH. Majority still chooses Jordan.

[Spurs m8]

He's top 5. You can't ignore that. You can be objective in this conversation and admit that much.

Whilst I may not have him top 5, I won't argue with those that do

[hateraid]

Leave it up to the Jordan stans to not understand the context of this thread and go immediately into protect Jordan legacy mode.

[2much_knowledge]

Anybody who's seen Kobe Bryant play, as basically seen Jordan play. It's like Ken and Ryu from the video game Street Fighter. Their virtually the same, Jordan was quicker in his prime and could attack the rim better, Kobe was a better 3 point shooter.

I'm in my 40s, seen both Jordan and James play, James is the better player.

Doesn't make sense. If he was truly better, he should've won more than him and should be more accomplished. And shouldn't take this long to do what he did.

Because for lack of help it sure as hell isn't

[TheCorporation]

Doesn't make sense. If he was truly better, he should've won more than him and should be more accomplished. And shouldn't take this long to do what he did.

Because for lack of help it sure as hell isn't


Russell ans Jordan?

Agreed.

1. LeBron
2. Bill Russell
3. Jordan

[kawhileonard2]

Jesus christ...and its not even close.
And LeTurnover didn't even win one hahahah

The basketball fans have spoken


MIKE BRON
Better sneaker for fashion 79% 21%
Better sneaker to ball in 77% 23%
Pick for game-winning shot 76% 24%
Come through in the clutch 74% 26%
Spectacular to watch play 74% 26%
Better player overall 73% 27%
NBA was better all-around 71% 29%
Win one-on-one to 21 67% 33%
Top pick to start a team 66% 34%
Better offensive player 65% 35%
Better 'look' 65% 35%
Have a drink with 65% 35%
Choose as a teammate 63% 37%
Positive impact off-court 62% 38%
Better defensive player 59% 41%
Better passer 59% 41%
Trust to pass you the ball 57% 43%

Widely accepted though.. guys

Hahahahhahhahaha

Also one guy turned a franchise that drafted him that never won anything into a dynasty and the other won 1 title in 11 years for the franchise that drafted them.

[TheCorporation]

Real GM voted him #1. It's a done deal my friends.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvT6zRfP/Real-GM-top-100.png

[kawhileonard2]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2008047

MJ had more than double the votes out of 653 votes.

[scuzzy]

Real GM voted him #1. It's a done deal my friends.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvT6zRfP/Real-GM-top-100.png
:applause:

[TheCorporation]

:applause:

LeFam stay winning

[kawhileonard2]

If the case why they disappear after the 1st vote? How you drop from 37 votes to 27 votes right after first vote? 653 votes you aren't dropping.

[Manny98]

Real GM voted him #1. It's a done deal my friends.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvT6zRfP/Real-GM-top-100.png

:hammertime:

[And1AllDay]

Real GM voted him #1. It's a done deal my friends.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvT6zRfP/Real-GM-top-100.png

:hammertime:

[1987_Lakers]

Real GM voted him #1. It's a done deal my friends.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvT6zRfP/Real-GM-top-100.png

Not a bad top 10 at all.

[Spurs m8]

Doesn't make sense. If he was truly better, he should've won more than him and should be more accomplished. And shouldn't take this long to do what he did.

Because for lack of help it sure as hell isn't

This is the funniest part...

He's had longer to do it, he's had way more help (3 collusions with all star tier help) and he's still short on most things except empty longevity stats.

It's literally the product of being an inferior player...simple

[Cold soul]

Real GM voted him #1. It's a done deal my friends.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvT6zRfP/Real-GM-top-100.png

Not the best top 10 list but not awful either.

[2much_knowledge]

This is the funniest part...

He's had longer to do it, he's had way more help (3 collusions with all star tier help) and he's still short on most things except empty longevity stats.

It's literally the product of being an inferior player...simple


I know.. they also know. Its justa hard pill to swallow.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Widely recognized? Only on ish will it be close.

And real gm... and any other legit basketball forum.

Of course those broad, popularity polls are gonna have Jordan leading quite comfortably. But those polls mean nothing. The same polls will have Kobe in or near top 5 when he's barely top 15.

Believe it or not, ISH is probably the most credible source in the world for legit basketball analysis. Almost everyone who posts is a diehard fan with vast knowledge... let's give ourselves a little credit here.. only on ish goes a LONG way.. and lebron was voted GOAT on real gm too... so he's GOAT

[Axe]

Fighting over who's the goat in basketball dayly is a child's thing lmao. It's like kids picking and bragging which candy tastes the best. In reality both of them are great, regardless of competition, collusion, teammate help, peak, longevity, etc. Imho they can be either 1a or 1b. Stop trying to act as if it's the end of the world if either one of them gets picked over the other. So give yourselves a break.

[Mauzah]

Anybody who's seen Kobe Bryant play, as basically seen Jordan play. It's like Ken and Ryu from the video game Street Fighter. Their virtually the same, Jordan was quicker in his prime and could attack the rim better, Kobe was a better 3 point shooter.

I'm in my 40s, seen both Jordan and James play, James is the better player.

That just means your in your 40's and stupid.

[Mauzah]

Fighting over who's the goat in basketball dayly is a child's thing lmao. It's like kids picking and bragging which candy tastes the best. In reality both of them are great, regardless of competition, collusion, teammate help, peak, longevity, etc. Imho they can be either 1a or 1b. Stop trying to act as if it's the end of the world if either one of them gets picked over the other. So give yourselves a break.

I appreciate the approach but Jordan is far and away the better basketball player. Better scorer, better defender, better rebounder (don't like the stats fool you), passing slightly behind but by very little and the list of betters goes on and on.

[Axe]

I appreciate the approach but Jordan is far and away the better basketball player. Better scorer, better defender, better rebounder (don't like the stats fool you), passing slightly behind but by very little and the list of betters goes on and on.
I doubt. I think kong is better all-around because of his size and in terms of elevating his teammates as well. Baldan otoh is the better scorer and winner though so that's that.

[Spurs m8]

Fighting over who's the goat in basketball dayly is a child's thing lmao. It's like kids picking and bragging which candy tastes the best. In reality both of them are great, regardless of competition, collusion, teammate help, peak, longevity, etc. Imho they can be either 1a or 1b. Stop trying to act as if it's the end of the world if either one of them gets picked over the other. So give yourselves a break.

Thanks, Axe wound

[Stanley Kobrick]

Fighting over who's the goat in basketball dayly is a child's thing lmao. It's like kids picking and bragging which candy tastes the best. In reality both of them are great, regardless of competition, collusion, teammate help, peak, longevity, etc. Imho they can be either 1a or 1b. Stop trying to act as if it's the end of the world if either one of them gets picked over the other. So give yourselves a break.
high IQ post

[2much_knowledge]

And real gm... and any other legit basketball forum.

Of course those broad, popularity polls are gonna have Jordan leading quite comfortably. But those polls mean nothing. The same polls will have Kobe in or near top 5 when he's barely top 15.

Believe it or not, ISH is probably the most credible source in the world for legit basketball analysis. Almost everyone who posts is a diehard fan with vast knowledge... let's give ourselves a little credit here.. only on ish goes a LONG way.. and lebron was voted GOAT on real gm too... so he's GOAT

Super credible and above all, unbias :)

[8Ball]

Real GM voted him #1. It's a done deal my friends.

https://i.postimg.cc/BvT6zRfP/Real-GM-top-100.png

Amongst intellectuals it is written.