I don't understand how anyone can criticize Michael Jordan's game

[Walk on Water]

I don't understand how people criticize Mike's game. Just because he had Pippen? Wow. But it's okay for Lebron to have Bosh/Wade or Anthony Davis or Love/Irving? I don't get it. How can you criticize Jordan?

He won fricken 10 scoring titles. 10! 10 time All NBA defense! So how can you criticize his offense or his defense? And on top of that, he never lost a championship. How can you be so desperate to downplay that, that you have to bring up the playoffs that he lost. But those were not Finals! Is that the only thing you have got against him?! 6 Championships is not bad for a guy that played professional baseball in the middle of his prime! He did it all.

Michael had no weakness! 10 scoring titles. Amazing on defense too! Got the fadeaway, the moves, the air. I don't understand how you can criticize him just because he had Pippen. Are you saying Pippen could have won without Mike? I feel like that's what you're saying. Jordan was a 10 out of 10 on offense and on defense.

[8Ball]

We don't. He is the 2nd GOAT.

LeBron is 1st GOAT because Bran is just a superior basketball player.

[2much_knowledge]

I don't get it either. He has everything you would want. Had swag, charisma, style, fierceness, all the offensive moves, crazy competitiveness, hard worker, great defense, athleticism, great dunk package and even better layup package, fundamentals, resilient , tough and a winner.

If you get extremely picky/petty.... not a willing passer/ not great 3 point shooter.

Thats it

[Sulico]

I don't think anybody criticizing Jordan. Lebron just objectively did more at this point, and people pointing it out.
I didn't see anyone calling Jordan not a top 10 player, like some crazy Jordan fans do with Lebron.

[And1AllDay]

We don't. He is the 2nd GOAT.

LeBron is 1st GOAT because Bran is just a superior basketball player.[

[sdot_thadon]

I sometimes wonder if guys like op are this clueless in real life or are they just playing a slow character on a message board.....

[Bronbron23]

I don't understand how people criticize Mike's game. Just because he had Pippen? Wow. But it's okay for Lebron to have Bosh/Wade or Anthony Davis or Love/Irving? I don't get it. How can you criticize Jordan?

He won fricken 10 scoring titles. 10! 10 time All NBA defense! So how can you criticize his offense or his defense? And on top of that, he never lost a championship. How can you be so desperate to downplay that, that you have to bring up the playoffs that he lost. But those were not Finals! Is that the only thing you have got against him?! 6 Championships is not bad for a guy that played professional baseball in the middle of his prime! He did it all.

Michael had no weakness! 10 scoring titles. Amazing on defense too! Got the fadeaway, the moves, the air. I don't understand how you can criticize him just because he had Pippen. Are you saying Pippen could have won without Mike? I feel like that's what you're saying. Jordan was a 10 out of 10 on offense and on defense.

You really can't. Off the court is a different story

[ImKobe]

I don't understand how people criticize Mike's game. Just because he had Pippen? Wow. But it's okay for Lebron to have Bosh/Wade or Anthony Davis or Love/Irving? I don't get it. How can you criticize Jordan?

He won fricken 10 scoring titles. 10! 10 time All NBA defense! So how can you criticize his offense or his defense? And on top of that, he never lost a championship. How can you be so desperate to downplay that, that you have to bring up the playoffs that he lost. But those were not Finals! Is that the only thing you have got against him?! 6 Championships is not bad for a guy that played professional baseball in the middle of his prime! He did it all.

Michael had no weakness! 10 scoring titles. Amazing on defense too! Got the fadeaway, the moves, the air. I don't understand how you can criticize him just because he had Pippen. Are you saying Pippen could have won without Mike? I feel like that's what you're saying. Jordan was a 10 out of 10 on offense and on defense.

They can't. Jordan was a DPOY and also the best scorer we've ever seen, and could run the offense & average 8.4 assists for a title run while dropping 31 on 60%TS and with just 2.5 turnovers. No one comes close. The media and kids who never saw him play would beg to differ, but they have their biases. The media has to prop up today's players to make the product seem superior and the fans have no connection to a player they never rooted for/saw play.

[2much_knowledge]

I don't think anybody criticizing Jordan. Lebron just objectively did more at this point, and people pointing it out.
I didn't see anyone calling Jordan not a top 10 player, like some crazy Jordan fans do with Lebron.


Did more? Must have missed that part or you come from the future

[2much_knowledge]

They can't. Jordan was a DPOY and also the best scorer we've ever seen, and could run the offense & average 8.4 assists for a title run while dropping 31 on 60%TS and with just 2.5 turnovers. No one comes close. The media and kids who never saw him play would beg to differ, but they have their biases. The media has to prop up today's players to make the product seem superior and the fans have no connection to a player they never rooted for/saw play.

The funniest thing of all if that they fall for it like casual fans would and then act like they know it all lol

Todays inflated numbers era is the biggest lie of them all

[8Ball]

As if being the 2nd greatest player in nba history makes you little girls wimp and cry and make threads.

[Bronbron23]

I don't think anybody criticizing Jordan. Lebron just objectively did more at this point, and people pointing it out.
I didn't see anyone calling Jordan not a top 10 player, like some crazy Jordan fans do with Lebron.

Did more? That's a weird thing to say. Mj has more of everything. Chips, mvp's, fmvps, dpoys, defensive teams and scoring titles. Did i miss something:confusedshrug:

[8Ball]

Did more? That's a weird thing to say. Mj has more of everything. Chips, mvp's, fmvps, dpoys, defensive teams and scoring titles. Did i miss something:confusedshrug:

Yeah. Jordan is 2nd greatest of all time. Is there a problem?

[Bronbron23]

Yeah. Jordan is 2nd greatest of all time. Is there a problem?

Nah your entitled to believe whatever you want and it's close so i don't think it's crazy saying bron is better. Let's keep the shit factual though. Bron clearly hasn't done more. Not yet anyway. There's still time though.

[Sulico]

Did more? Must have missed that part or you come from the future

No, I mean now.

Jordan was probably slightly better compared to his peers than Lebron compared to his. Very slightly though. But Lebron doing pretty much what Jordan did for much more years.

Rings are quite circumstantial and more of a team accomplishment, though I agree that very top players should have at least one or two.

What matters is both players were undoubtedly best players in NBA for the vast majority of their careers. Lebron just played more games, more seasons, more playoff series.

[ImKobe]

The funniest thing of all if that they fall for it like casual fans would and then act like they know it all lol

Todays inflated numbers era is the biggest lie of them all

It's a combination of many things. There's obviously a Jordan fatigue, he's been celebrated as the GOAT for so long. Lebron's had a great career, but he's short in just about every accolade (no DPOY, 1 scoring title to Jordan's 10, 4 titles to Jordan's 6, 4 MVPs to Jordan's 5, 6 Finals losses to Jordan's 6 - 0 Finals record). Lebron has the longevity argument, but his longevity is a combination of luck (no significant injuries) and the league getting more efficient offensively every year. It was the opposite with Jordan, the league's offensive efficiency was in decline, the pace got slower and only THREE players averaged 25+ ppg in his last season in Chicago. Compare that to the NBA having FIFTEEN 25+ ppg scorers this year (Lebron didn't even qualify because he missed so many games).

I already know the next argument from the haters, they're going to bash every player in MJ's era and compare efficiency numbers H2H to make their point, except the rules were vastly different, which made it much harder to score in his era, yet his numbers are still on par or better than anyone else's best.

[Bronbron23]

No, I mean now.

Jordan was probably slightly better compared to his peers than Lebron compared to his. Very slightly though. But Lebron doing pretty much what Jordan did for much more years.

Rings are quite circumstantial and more of a team accomplishment, though I agree that very top players should have at least one or two.

What matters is both players were undoubtedly best players in NBA for the vast majority of their careers. Lebron just played more games, more seasons, more playoff series.

That's the thing though. Mj has more of pretty much everything but he did it while playing less games, seasons and playoff series. I'm not sure how that favors lebron:confusedshrug:

[2much_knowledge]

No, I mean now.

Jordan was probably slightly better compared to his peers than Lebron compared to his. Very slightly though. But Lebron doing pretty much what Jordan did for much more years.

Rings are quite circumstantial and more of a team accomplishment, though I agree that very top players should have at least one or two.

What matters is both players were undoubtedly best players in NBA for the vast majority of their careers. Lebron just played more games, more seasons, more playoff series.

Well put. I disagree about the pretty much part since MJ blows him out of the water in accolades but i can respect a different opinion from mine if its explain in a matter that makes sense

[2much_knowledge]

It's a combination of many things. There's obviously a Jordan fatigue, he's been celebrated as the GOAT for so long. Lebron's had a great career, but he's short in just about every accolade (no DPOY, 1 scoring title to Jordan's 10, 4 titles to Jordan's 6, 4 MVPs to Jordan's 5, 6 Finals losses to Jordan's 6 - 0 Finals record). Lebron has the longevity argument, but his longevity is a combination of luck (no significant injuries) and the league getting more efficient offensively every year. It was the opposite with Jordan, the league's offensive efficiency was in decline, the pace got slower and only THREE players averaged 25+ ppg in his last season in Chicago. Compare that to the NBA having FIFTEEN 25+ ppg scorers this year (Lebron didn't even qualify because he missed so many games).

I already know the next argument from the haters, they're going to bash every player in MJ's era and compare efficiency numbers H2H to make their point, except the rules were vastly different, which made it much harder to score in his era, yet his numbers are still on par or better than anyone else's best.

Damn man. As spot on as you will find here. And i don't say that necessarily because i agree with you. You just can tell you know your basketball and you are unbiased.

What i don't get is why some people act like all those extra accolades don't hold any weight? Its not easy to get all those, especially in 11 full seasons. Being healthy is not a skill. Thats why i don't punish or take away from players who got injured like some do here.

Lebron's sustained level of play for this long is a important factor and very valuable but im more impressed with a guy who managed to do all that in less time. Thats what makes him the goat in my opinion. You are not supposed to have a resume like that while retiring twice in your prime.

[Shooter]

We don't. He is the 2nd GOAT.

LeBron is 1st GOAT because Bran is just a superior basketball player.

[Bronbron23]

We don't. He is the 2nd GOAT.

LeBron is 1st GOAT because Bran is just a superior basketball player.

But mj accomplished more right?

[Sulico]

We don't. He is the 2nd GOAT.

LeBron is 1st GOAT because Bran is just a superior basketball player.

That's not how greatness is assessed.

When in 30 or 40 years every swimmer in quarterfinals of european championship would be beating Michael Phelpses time, would all of them be greater than Michael Phelps?

[Shooter]

2nd best aint that bad, is it?

1st LeBron
2nd Jordan

[Sulico]

That's the thing though. Mj has more of pretty much everything but he did it while playing less games, seasons and playoff series. I'm not sure how that favors lebron:confusedshrug:

For example.

2014, Lebron didn't win MVP, got another finals loss to one of the best teams of all time.
1998, MJ got another chip and MVP.

Both were best players in the league

But the circumstaces were different. Durant hunted that MVP with the help of his teammates and legendary franchise managed to draft best player in the draft at 15th pick years prior, plus got insane ammount of quality veterans for a big discount.

[Airupthere]

Lebron's game is ugly as f*ck and he managed to make it worse with excessive flopping and whining. Accumulated stats and accolades have become the primary selling point but we all know how Lebron chases those stats while doing only 4/10 with various stacked, handpicked teams. Jordan played in a team game, not bronball where he had to do everything. He didn't need to get every rebound, or have the ball all the time and make every one spot up shooters.

[theman93]

What's even more impressive about Jordan when you compare him to Lebron is even though he was a guard who played further from the basket, he was a much better offensive rebounder. In 238 less games, Jordan still has more OREB's than Lebron (1668 to Lebron's 1538).

Often times people just look at total rebounds and see Lebron averaged more so they assume he was the better rebounder. However they don't take in to account rebounds are actually 2 separate statistical categories.

[3ball]

I don't think anybody criticizing Jordan. Lebron just objectively did more at this point, and people pointing it out.
I didn't see anyone calling Jordan not a top 10 player, like some crazy Jordan fans do with Lebron.


Lebron has less of literally everything except Finals appearances, which are conference-dependant and mean nothing. If you lose the Finals, that means you can't beat the other conference.

The worst part is that he got to refresh his cast with prime studs every 4 years - that's unfair because Jordan had to deal with old teammates like Pippen, who averaged 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs, or Rodman averaged 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs and wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs.. Lebron can't win with help like that. He always needed TWO perennial all-stars or to be the "pippen" to AD.

Lebron's 4/10 with team-hopping proves nothing and actually proves that he's flawed, while Jordan's 6 rings proved that everyone was wrong about his game.

[Bronbron23]

For example.

2014, Lebron didn't win MVP, got another finals loss to one of the best teams of all time.
1998, MJ got another chip and MVP.

Both were best players in the league

But the circumstaces were different. Durant hunted that MVP with the help of his teammates and legendary franchise managed to draft best player in the draft at 15th pick years prior, plus got insane ammount of quality veterans for a big discount.

Well it's not like brin didn't have a great team when he lost to spurs in 14. The key in that series was kawhi's ability to defend bron. Bron had good stats but he was very inefficient against kawhi. This forced the heat to take more time setting up their offense trying to get a switch for bron to get a different defender on him. This took away precious time setting uo their offense and took them out of their regular rythem. This wouldn't of worked against a prime mj. Kawhi isn't quick enough to stay in front of a 29 year old mj but he was with bron.

And i agree bron has had tougher comp but it's really his own fault. He teamed up and formed a super teams in mia and cle and other teams followed suit.

[Axe]

As great as he is, many people can't overlook that he didn't win a playoff series in five seasons he didn't have scottie pippen. Also he had to retire twice in his career; once when he got to the hot seat due to his gambling and then another when he learned that the dynasty was splitting up, which meant not playing with pippen anymore. However, some of these are trivial so...

[3ball]

As great as he is, many people can't overlook that he didn't win a playoff series in five seasons he didn't have scottie pippen.





Lebron needed 2 Pippen's to win (2 perennial all-stars), or he needed to be the Pippen to AD

night and day.. jordan is far superior

[MavAlbert]

We don't. He is the 2nd GOAT.

LeBron is 1st GOAT because Bran is just a superior basketball player.

Honest question. Put LeBron on the heat in 2011. Do they lose? There goes your argument.

[MavAlbert]

lebron needed 2 pippen's to win (2 perennial all-stars), or he needed to be the pippen to ad

night and day.. Jordan is far superior

bingo

[TheCorporation]

Honest question. Put LeBron on the heat in 2011. Do they lose? There goes your argument.

You think LeBron's losing three times in the 1st round? :lol

Next

[3ball]

.
Lebron gets extra credit for doing things that everyone does.

Guys like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd carried sub-par casts to the Finals, but Lebron's 07' run gets all the praise and only Lebron is viewed as carrying weak teams.. Ultimately, he was a 1-trick pony just like Iverson or Dwight - then he formed a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning. It's the definition of manufacturing a resume.. I'm sure Dwight would've made a bunch of Finals if he joined Wade/Bosh after winning the conference without them in 2009.. But the idea to manufacture his resume didn't occur to Dwight like it did Lebron.

Btw, the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas had 2 years of seasoning in the lottery before entering the playoffs as a developed, high seed in 2006 - in order to make the 06' Playoffs, Lebron and Zydrunas acquired a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY (top defenses) - that's easily enough to compete in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won (00's East), while young Jordan had nothing in a conference that required a super-team to win (80's East).. Jordan didn't get 2 years in the lottery to develop a favored, high seed - he was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as the 8 seed vs dynasties.

So young Jordan had nothing in a super-team conference, while Lebron had favored, high seeds in a 1-star team conference.. People forget that 89' Jordan had a deep run with a low seed and a rookie cast (no accolades), aka bums.. Otoh, Lebron never carried a low seed or bums to the playoffs or a deep run - Zydrunas was a 2-time all-star and Hughes was an all-defender, while 18' Love was the best 2nd option in the conference and perennial all-star.... Meanwhile, Kyrie played half the games in the 15' Eastern Playoffs, including 2 games in the ECF... So Lebron never made the playoffs or had a deep run with a low seed or undecorated cast like 89' MJ.

This is the tip of the iceberg. The mainstream media doesn't report accurately because they're trying to appeal to Joe the Plumber, but their oversimplification becomes inaccurate. So they're misguided, because today's Joe the Plumber has his own crypto account and researches bballref more than Shannon Sharpe or Stephen A..... and therefore know MORE than the mainstream media..

Ultimately, every aspect of Lebron's career is manufactured, including his jumpshot - according to NBA.com's player-tracking data, every other star (Harden, Kawhi, KD, etc) takes about 30-40% of their jumpshots CONTESTED, while only 10% of Lebron's jumpers are contested - Lebron gets away with deferring the tough possessions/jumpshots to teammates by having super-teams with multiple elite 1st options as sidekicks (or simply being the "pippen" to AD - AD led the Lakers in scoring for the 2020 regular season and Playoffs)..

People don't realize that Lebron never carried the scoring load in the Playoffs and Finals while winning a championship - he always needed a sidekick to be within 5 ppg of him to win a Finals, and only the 13' Eastern Playoffs saw a carry-job scoring load from him.... Lebron needs 1b's that can match or exceed his scoring in the playoffs (11', 16', 20'), while Jordan won with a true 2nd option that never got within 10 ppg of him in any series...

In the history of 3-pointer basketball (since 1980), Pippen is one of the rare 2nd options on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP (true 2nd options) - it's a short list that includes Rip Hamilton, Pippen, Gasol, Jason Terry, Klay, and Horry... Every other 2nd option on champions was an elite 1st option or FMVP (Kobe, Curry, AD, Wade, etc).. So Jordan would have more rings with an elite 1st option or FMVP sidekick that everyone else had.. Instead, he had just had Pippen and inferior team defenses (Bulls had the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat and weaker defenses than Finals/ECF opponents)..

Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, including many horrific series.. Jordan simply carried the Bulls to 6 titles by doubling Pippen's playoff scoring average and assisting 33% more often (assist percentage), while getting more DPOY votes every year... Jordan also led the Bulls in assists for 6 of 9 playoff runs alongside Pippen and averaged more career assists... Ultimately, only Jordan won a bunch of rings without super-teams or 1b's

[ShawkFactory]

.
Lebron gets extra credit for doing things that everyone does.

Guys like Iverson, Dwight and Kidd carried sub-par casts to the Finals, but Lebron's 07' run gets all the praise and only Lebron is viewed as carrying weak teams.. Ultimately, he was a 1-trick pony just like Iverson or Dwight - then he formed a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning. It's the definition of manufacturing a resume.. I'm sure Dwight would've made a bunch of Finals if he joined Wade/Bosh after winning the conference without them in 2009.. But the idea to manufacture his resume didn't occur to Dwight like it did Lebron.

Btw, the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas had 2 years of seasoning in the lottery before entering the playoffs as a developed, high seed in 2006 - in order to make the 06' Playoffs, Lebron and Zydrunas acquired a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY (top defenses) - that's easily enough to compete in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won (00's East), while young Jordan had nothing in a conference that required a super-team to win (80's East).. Jordan didn't get 2 years in the lottery to develop a favored, high seed - he was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as the 8 seed vs dynasties.

So young Jordan had nothing in a super-team conference, while Lebron had favored, high seeds in a 1-star team conference.. People forget that 89' Jordan had a deep run with a low seed and a rookie cast (no accolades), aka bums.. Otoh, Lebron never carried a low seed or bums to the playoffs or a deep run - Zydrunas was a 2-time all-star and Hughes was an all-defender, while 18' Love was the best 2nd option in the conference and perennial all-star.... Meanwhile, Kyrie played half the games in the 15' Eastern Playoffs, including 2 games in the ECF... So Lebron never made the playoffs or had a deep run with a low seed or undecorated cast like 89' MJ.

This is the tip of the iceberg. The mainstream media doesn't report accurately because they're trying to appeal to Joe the Plumber, but their oversimplification becomes inaccurate. So they're misguided, because today's Joe the Plumber has his own crypto account and researches bballref more than Shannon Sharpe or Stephen A..... and therefore know MORE than the mainstream media..

Ultimately, every aspect of Lebron's career is manufactured, including his jumpshot - according to NBA.com's player-tracking data, every other star (Harden, Kawhi, KD, etc) takes about 30-40% of their jumpshots CONTESTED, while only 10% of Lebron's jumpers are contested - Lebron gets away with deferring the tough possessions/jumpshots to teammates by having super-teams with multiple elite 1st options as sidekicks (or simply being the "pippen" to AD - AD led the Lakers in scoring for the 2020 regular season and Playoffs)..

People don't realize that Lebron never carried the scoring load in the Playoffs and Finals while winning a championship - he always needed a sidekick to be within 5 ppg of him to win a Finals, and only the 13' Eastern Playoffs saw a carry-job scoring load from him.... Lebron needs 1b's that can match or exceed his scoring in the playoffs (11', 16', 20'), while Jordan won with a true 2nd option that never got within 10 ppg of him in any series...

In the history of 3-pointer basketball (since 1980), Pippen is one of the rare 2nd options on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP (true 2nd options) - it's a short list that includes Rip Hamilton, Pippen, Gasol, Jason Terry, Klay, and Horry... Every other 2nd option on champions was an elite 1st option or FMVP (Kobe, Curry, AD, Wade, etc).. So Jordan would have more rings with an elite 1st option or FMVP sidekick that everyone else had.. Instead, he had just had Pippen and inferior team defenses (Bulls had the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat and weaker defenses than Finals/ECF opponents)..

Pippen averaged 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, including many horrific series.. Jordan simply carried the Bulls to 6 titles by doubling Pippen's playoff scoring average and assisting 33% more often (assist percentage), while getting more DPOY votes every year... Ultimately, only Jordan won a bunch of rings without super-teams or 1b's

Probably because was 22 at the time. The other guys were in their primes. Lebron was not.

[Spurs m8]

Dude, it's only Bron stans, trying to prop their boy up, mainly just on ISH as well...Wheels and co

No-one does it irl

[DABIGSALSISHA]

I don't understand how people criticize Mike's game. Just because he had Pippen? Wow. But it's okay for Lebron to have Bosh/Wade or Anthony Davis or Love/Irving? I don't get it. How can you criticize Jordan?

He won fricken 10 scoring titles. 10! 10 time All NBA defense! So how can you criticize his offense or his defense? And on top of that, he never lost a championship. How can you be so desperate to downplay that, that you have to bring up the playoffs that he lost. But those were not Finals! Is that the only thing you have got against him?! 6 Championships is not bad for a guy that played professional baseball in the middle of his prime! He did it all.

Michael had no weakness! 10 scoring titles. Amazing on defense too! Got the fadeaway, the moves, the air. I don't understand how you can criticize him just because he had Pippen. Are you saying Pippen could have won without Mike? I feel like that's what you're saying. Jordan was a 10 out of 10 on offense and on defense.

The answer is simple:

They are idiots. Most of these new generation are. They never seen the man play in real time so they are dependant on watching youtube videos. They will never understand, really.

I saw him and have seen Lebron's entire career . It's not even close. Michael Jordan was a dominant force in all aspects of the game and everything else over bron. Besides, the man was pioneer in a lot of things he did. He was lebron's IDOL too. lol

[2much_knowledge]

As great as he is, many people can't overlook that he didn't win a playoff series in five seasons he didn't have scottie pippen. Also he had to retire twice in his career; once when he got to the hot seat due to his gambling and then another when he learned that the dynasty was splitting up, which meant not playing with pippen anymore. However, some of these are trivial so...

Many idiots*

Fixed it

[2much_knowledge]

You think LeBron's losing three times in the 1st round? :lol

Next

Of course he is losing those matchups fool. No rookie ever in Nba history is beating The Celtics by themselves. None

[warriorfan]

Of course he is losing those matchups fool. No rookie ever in Nba history is beating The Celtics by themselves. None

Bron lost to Dwight Howard and Rafer Alston as the favorite with HCA.

Larry Bird’s Celtics would absolutely annihilate him.

[Spurs m8]

Bron lost to Dwight Howard and Rafer Alston as the favorite with HCA.

Larry Bird’s Celtics would absolutely annihilate him.

Yep Bron stans don't understand real men playing basketball...not soft divas

Hence why they're all such b1tches themselves

[8Ball]

Bron lost to Dwight Howard and Rafer Alston as the favorite with HCA.

Larry Bird’s Celtics would absolutely annihilate him.

Dwight Howard >>>> Isiah Thomas.

Imagine losing to IT 3 years in a row.

[Bronbron23]

Dwight Howard >>>> Isiah Thomas.

Imagine losing to IT 3 years in a row.

Wow one of the worst takes in the history of this forum

[Manny98]

Honest question. Put LeBron on the heat in 2011. Do they lose? There goes your argument.
Put Jordan against the 73 win Warriors do they win?

Put Jordan on the 2018 Cavs do they even make it past the first round?

[8Ball]

Wow one of the worst takes in the history of this forum

IT stomped Jordan in 88,89,90. 3 years where IT never even made an All-NBA team. And nobody else made All-NBA except Joe Dumars in 1990 on the 3rd team :oldlol:

IT:

3× All-NBA First Team (1984–1986)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1983, 1987)

Dwight Howard:

5× All-NBA First Team (2008–2012)
All-NBA Second Team (2014)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2007, 2013)
3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2009–2011)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008)


Dwight is a much higher calibre player / talent than IT. No question.

[Bronbron23]

IT:

3× All-NBA First Team (1984–1986)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1983, 1987)

Dwight Howard:

5× All-NBA First Team (2008–2012)
All-NBA Second Team (2014)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2007, 2013)
3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2009–2011)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008)


Dwight is a much higher calibre player / talent than IT. No question.

Cool so he's more decorated so he's better? That means mj is better than bron? It's amazing how often bron stans defeat themselves with their own logic:facepalm

[8Ball]

Cool so he's more decorated so he's better? That means mj is better than bron? It's amazing how often bron stans defeat themselves with their own logic:facepalm

We talking All-NBA Teams

Jordan:
10× All-NBA First Team (1987–1993, 1996–1998)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1988–1993, 1996–1998)

LeBron:
13× All-NBA First Team (2006, 2008–2018, 2020)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2005, 2007)
All-NBA Third Team (2019)
5× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2013)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)


More All-NBA 1st teams than Jordan.


Dwight was simply a better basketball player vs IT. Imagine losing to IT 3 years in a row.

[PeroAntic]

More All-NBA 1st teams than Jordan.
.

This is close to the 'more points in the playoffs' idiotic argument. Of course hes gonna have more because he played more. Jordan retired twice because it was not a challenge to play anymore.

[Manny98]

Wow one of the worst takes in the history of this forum
Not really, peak Dwight was a MVP caliber player and carried a team to the finals

Zeke was never even a top 5 player in the NBA

[3ball]

Put Jordan on the 2018 Cavs do they even make it past the first round?





2018 Celtics.... 55 wins... #7 SRS.. 1 all-star.. 3.6 net rating

1989 Cavs........ 57 wins.. #1 SRS.. 3 all-star.. 7.7 net rating
1989 Knicks..... 52 wins.. #8 SRS.. 2 all-star.. 3.7 net rating


It was pre-title Jordan and his sophomore low seed that beat the 89' Cavs, whereas Lebron was a veteran champion high seed when he beat the 18' Celtics rookies..

Also, 89' Ewing was a dominant player and vastly superior to anyone on the 18' Celtics..

Ultimately, the 18' Celtics were a weak team and who cares about carry-jobs against weak teams?... The historical record shows that lebron can't beat top 5 SRS teams with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick - so he has zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing.. (see the 15' ECF for a good example).

Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he's poor at the additional contested jumpshooting required of tough carry-jobs.. the stats show that he avoids contested jumpshots (defers them to teammates)






Put Jordan against the 73 win Warriors do they win?





Career Finals

Lebron...... 28 on 48%
Kyrie...'...... 28 on 47%

Jordan..... 34 on 58%
Pippen..... 19 on 42%


Jordan would've swept Curry with an equal-scoring partner.

Furthermore, anyone wins when their sidekick is destroying the opponent's 1st option and playing at a level that only Wilt reached - only Wilt and Kyrie scored 40+ in the Finals

[2much_knowledge]

Dwight Howard >>>> Isiah Thomas.

Imagine losing to IT 3 years in a row.

Do you believe the garbage you type? Its a team game. The Pistons were a TEAM. Comparing a 3 time finalist/twice champs to a fluke team that got there once and Kobe and co kicked their ass

[3ball]

Probably because was 22 at the time. The other guys were in their primes. Lebron was not.


It was his 4th season and 2nd Playoffs because he had the advantage of coming straight from HS

Ultimately, 22-year old Lebron averaged 22 on 35% against the champs and #1 defense, while 23-year old Jordan averaged 44 on 50% in that scenario (against the 86' Celtics).. Btw, 23-year Lebron averaged 26 on 35% against the 08' Celtics.

So 22 and 23-year Lebron fall short of MJ at that age, or 20-year old Magic, who completely dominated and was FMVP.. 22-year Lebron was only on the Iverson or Dwight level by winning a historically weak conference.

[2much_knowledge]

Not really, peak Dwight was a MVP caliber player and carried a team to the finals

Zeke was never even a top 5 player in the NBA

Thats what happens when you had 7 of the top 13 players of all time playing in your era