We allowed MJ to grow and to fail, we didnt allow LBJ that. And he still overachieved

[Shooter]

Doc River's quote.

"Look at Michael. It took Michael 7 years to win an NBA title, because he didn't trust his teammates. He didn't trust the system, he wanted to dominate himself. He didnt get the importance of using his teammates, but no one criticized Michael back then. When Michael came in the league he surprised us. When LeBron came in the league they expected him to be great, so it was already on him. With Michael we allowed him to fail and grow into greatness, we didnt do that for LeBron. And he STILL overachieved."

[ImKobe]

Well, MJ still dominated himself when he won those 6 titles.. all he needed was SOME help. Lebron needed a lot more to go his way in order to win. Even we he had multiple star teammates, he needed for the other team to implode in elimination to eek out 2 of his 4 titles.

[Airupthere]

When lebron entered the league, the league was in a better place for the likes of lebron to dominate. And what the fk is all this drama from rivers saying we did not allow for lebron to fail and grow? Was he shackled in any way and stopped from doing what he can on the floor? Lebron had full liberty of maximizing his career. There were no if's in his career at all. He quit on CLE and superteamed in MIA. He was allowed to fail in CLE and superteam in MIA. Is Doc expecting everyone to applaud that and never question it? Dafuq doc.

Also, lebron is the one who put it upon himself. He is self-proclaimed "the chosen one" and "king". Kings don't quite teams and superteams with others. I was huge on lebron when he entered the league until all the BS he started doing. Superteaming, flopping, whining, all the cringe ass quotes.

[Ainosterhaspie]

It's not accurate to say MJ wasn't criticized. People routinely noted that he was a ball hog who needed to play team ball more. It was generally accepted at the time that scoring leaders don't win titles and was an open question whether he could win a title thebway he played. Even when he was viewed as one of the best in the game prior to winning a title, his ability to win it all was questioned. Once he broke through those criticisms were dropped and they are now often forgotten, but they were there.

[Ainosterhaspie]

When lebron entered the league, the league was in a better place for the likes of lebron to dominate. And what the fk is all this drama from rivers saying we did not allow for lebron to fail and grow? Was he shackled in any way and stopped from doing what he can on the floor? Lebron had full liberty of maximizing his career. There were no if's in his career at all. He quit on CLE and superteamed in MIA. He was allowed to fail in CLE and superteam in MIA. Is Doc expecting everyone to applaud that and never question it? Dafuq doc.

Also, lebron is the one who put it upon himself. He is self-proclaimed "the chosen one" and "king". Kings don't quite teams and superteams with others. I was huge on lebron when he entered the league until all the BS he started doing. Superteaming, flopping, whining, all the cringe ass quotes.

Why do people say he is self-proclaimed so much? SI proclaimed him to be rhe chosen one. Yes he adopted that afterword, but he didn't come up with it. Doubt he came up with the king moniker either.

[tontoz]

Yeah MJ got criticized all the time because he was seen as very selfish relative to Bird and Magic.

[Airupthere]

Why do people say he is self-proclaimed so much? SI proclaimed him to be rhe chosen one. Yes he adopted that afterword, but he didn't come up with it. Doubt he came up with the king moniker either.

King goes all the way back. Chosen one maybe rightly so from SI but that is in the same line as King and he had that shit tattoed, so what does that tell you. Years on when you would think he would be wiser he proclaimed himself as the GOAT. Very consistent.

Regardless, I dont know if Doc has amnesia but Jordan in the 80s received a ton of criticism for being a ball hog and not being able to win. Why is he saying that Lebron is not being allowed to be a great player now. Has there been anything that tied Lebron's hands behind his back that was only selectively for him during his career? Lebron had wide open options for him during his career.

Top prospects always get the expectation and criticism. Lebron was never singled out to the point of hampering him.

[Mauzah]

Why do people say he is self-proclaimed so much? SI proclaimed him to be rhe chosen one. Yes he adopted that afterword, but he didn't come up with it. Doubt he came up with the king moniker either.

Motherf*cker has it tattooed across his back

[GrayGoat]

LeBron won with Cleveland. He’s done the impossible

[GrayGoat]

Motherf*cker has it tattooed across his back

This guys internet search history: LeBron shirtless pics, am I queer?, I like BBC

[theman93]

We didn’t allow Lebron to grow and fail? What an idiotic statement.

We watched him grow and fail over and over in Cleveland with basically zero criticism. The criticism came AFTER he proclaimed he was going to win 7 or more championships in Miami. Lebron was given 8 years to grow and fail, but once he formed a super team and made such proclamations THEN the criticism came, and rightfully so. Does Doc just not even remember history?

[GrayGoat]

We didn’t allow Lebron to grow and fail? What an idiotic statement.

We watched him grow and fail over and over in Cleveland with basically zero criticism. The criticism came AFTER he proclaimed he was going to win 7 or more championships in Miami. Lebron was given 8 years to grow and fail, but once he formed a super team and made such proclamations THEN the criticism came, and rightfully so. Does Doc just not even remember history?

LeBron came into the league at 18. He got to the finals at age 21. MJ at 21 is not dragging Cleveland to the finals

[Shooter]

LeBron came into the league at 18. He got to the finals at age 21. MJ at 21 is not dragging Cleveland to the finals

MJ at 21 was having BIG TROUBLE with Terry Cummings.

MJ had his hands full with Cummings

[RogueBorg]

Doc River's quote.

"Look at Michael. It took Michael 7 years to win an NBA title, because he didn't trust his teammates. He didn't trust the system, he wanted to dominate himself. He didnt get the importance of using his teammates, but no one criticized Michael back then. When Michael came in the league he surprised us. When LeBron came in the league they expected him to be great, so it was already on him. With Michael we allowed him to fail and grow into greatness, we didnt do that for LeBron. And he STILL overachieved."

Doc Rivers's memory is failing him. Jordan absolutely was criticized for not being able to win a title in the early years. In fact, they used to say as a scoring champion he wasn't going to win a ring and he knew it. That's why you see images of him clutching the trophy the way he did because it meant so much to him. Don't know WTF Doc is talking about.
https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MTgwMTMyNzAzMjkyMzAyNjgw/espn-will-release-michael-jordans-documentary-the-last-dance-on-april-19.jpg

[RogueBorg]

LeBron came into the league at 18. He got to the finals at age 21. MJ at 21 is not dragging Cleveland to the finals

That's opinion and can't be proven.

[theman93]

LeBron came into the league at 18. He got to the finals at age 21.

And he didn’t get criticized for getting swept. Thanks for proving my point.

Go ahead and lock this one up.

Next!

[3ball]

MJ at 21 was having BIG TROUBLE with Terry Cummings.

MJ had his hands full with Cummings


Rookie and sophomore Lebron had an all-star center on his team, but only won 40 games.

Furthermore, the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas had 2 years of building in the lottery (draft picks, acquisitions) before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as a favored, high seed.. It's simply f*cking unfair to compare a seasoned, high seed to rookie Jordan's 8 seeds that had zero building or additions.

Lebron's additions included a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY (top defenses).. These developed, high seeds easily competed in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while MJ had a Curry-like 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

[Spurs m8]

Ummm...we gave bron years of passes.

But when you quit on your team, wear check my stats t-shirts, label yourself as the chosen one and GOAT, etc...YOU ARE literally the one bringing the pressure on to yourself

But hey...let's just blame everyone else

[2much_knowledge]

Another day, another thread to prop up lebron tirelessly.

Take a break

[Spurs m8]

The funniest part was over achieve hahahahha

That's like calling Bron a white guy with blonde hair...just cos you say it, doesn't make it true

[ELITEpower23]

The funniest part was over achieve hahahahha

That's like calling Bron a white guy with blonde hair...just cos you say it, doesn't make it true

He only has all the playoff records, ever and the second most FMVP ever. But that's it.

[Shooter]

He only has all the playoff records, ever and the second most FMVP ever. But that's it.

:roll::roll::roll:

Yep that's all

[DABIGSALSISHA]

A picture says more than 1000 words.....

https://wallpaperaccess.com/full/2323059.jpg

[DABIGSALSISHA]

Another day, another thread to prop up lebron tirelessly.

Take a break

The Lelatiffa KKK.

[light]

Doc River's quote.

"Look at Michael. It took Michael 7 years to win an NBA title, because he didn't trust his teammates. He didn't trust the system, he wanted to dominate himself. He didnt get the importance of using his teammates, but no one criticized Michael back then. When Michael came in the league he surprised us. When LeBron came in the league they expected him to be great, so it was already on him. With Michael we allowed him to fail and grow into greatness, we didnt do that for LeBron. And he STILL overachieved."

LeBron is the only player in history that had the expectation of matching or exceeding Michael Jordan and then he went out and did it.

That's basically impossible. Or at least everyone thought it was.

Jordan only had to surpass guys like Magic and Kareem - he didn't have to contend with someone like himself so the bar for MJ in terms of becoming GOAT was lower.

Surpassing LeBron is going to be a monumental task because it's the same challenge as surpassing Jordan - if Jordan was bigger, stronger, faster, smarter and a better three point shooter.

[kawhileonard2]

As soon as you win bronze medal in basketball for America in the NBA you are a failure.

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron is the only player in history that had the expectation of matching or exceeding Michael Jordan and then he went out and did it.

That's basically impossible. Or at least everyone thought it was.

Jordan only had to surpass guys like Magic and Kareem - he didn't have to contend with someone like himself so the bar for MJ in terms of becoming GOAT was lower.

Surpassing LeBron is going to be a monumental task because it's the same challenge as surpassing Jordan - if Jordan was bigger, stronger, faster, smarter and a better three point shooter.

Lebron never surpassed MJ. Lebron has played more seasons and yet has less league mvp's, finals mvp's, titles and all this despite switching teams and joining stars on multiple ocassions.

[Mr.GOAT2408]

That Cavaliers team was winning largely due to their defense, LeBron was surrounded by a ton of good defenders. The East also wasn't all that after the Pistons, the West was the loaded conference and they probably lose to any team out West but they definitely getting swept by the elite Western teams... which did in fact happen

It wasn't an impressive finals run, he had maybe one truly great game (game 5 vs Pistons) and that was it, the Wizards/Nets were .500 teams so who gives a shit if he had a good game against them

And even then no one really faults LeBron for losing to the Spurs, it's just that he played garbage despite being given open shots all series and lost several winnable games. Huge difference between that and 63 for MJ, MJ absolutely was criticized early on because he wasn't Magic/Bird (you mean he didn't have anywhere near the help they did?) whereas with LeBron he gets criticized because his teams could have gone further (whether an extra series or an extra game or two) throughout his career + his fans want to make his achievements look far greater than they truly are (they're not that impressive, get over it)

It's just not the same, and you Bronsexuals know it

[Shooter]

That Cavaliers team was winning largely due to their defense, LeBron was surrounded by a ton of good defenders. The East also wasn't all that after the Pistons, the West was the loaded conference and they probably lose to any team out West but they definitely getting swept by the elite Western teams... which did in fact happen

It wasn't an impressive finals run, he had maybe one truly great game (game 5 vs Pistons) and that was it, the Wizards/Nets were .500 teams so who gives a shit if he had a good game against them

And even then no one really faults LeBron for losing to the Spurs, it's just that he played garbage despite being given open shots all series and lost several winnable games. Huge difference between that and 63 for MJ, MJ absolutely was criticized early on because he wasn't Magic/Bird (you mean he didn't have anywhere near the help they did?) whereas with LeBron he gets criticized because his teams could have gone further (whether an extra series or an extra game or two) throughout his career + his fans want to make his achievements look far greater than they truly are (they're not that impressive, get over it)

It's just not the same, and you Bronsexuals know it

We allowed MJ to grow and to fail, we didnt allow LBJ that. And he still overachieved

[8Ball]

We allowed MJ to grow and to fail, we didnt allow LBJ that. And he still overachieved

We allowed MJ to grow and to fail, we didnt allow LBJ that. And he still overachieved

[TheCorporation]

LeBron is the only player in history that had the expectation of matching or exceeding Michael Jordan and then he went out and did it.

That's basically impossible. Or at least everyone thought it was.

Jordan only had to surpass guys like Magic and Kareem - he didn't have to contend with someone like himself so the bar for MJ in terms of becoming GOAT was lower.

Surpassing LeBron is going to be a monumental task because it's the same challenge as surpassing Jordan - if Jordan was bigger, stronger, faster, smarter and a better three point shooter.

Greatest post and makes perfectly good sense.

MJ thought whem he lassed Kareem he was "good" when in reality LBJ came thru and passed them both up.

LeBar is set

[GrayGoat]

LeBar was set

[Kobe_Bryant]

the media and fans loved lebron before the decision. even I had a cavs jersey and a wade Miami jersey back in 2008

my wife got me them for Christmas as a gag and I wore them anyway