The all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas had 2 years of building via lottery & trades....

[3ball]

before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as a favored, high seed..

So isn't it wrong to compare a developed, high seed to Jordan's rookie 8 seeds?

Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY (top defenses) - these high seeds easily contended in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while MJ had a Curry-like 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

[ArbitraryWater]

Who do you post this stuff for?

There is no audience here and everyone that is here does not care.

[3ball]

Who do you post this stuff for?

There is no audience here and everyone that is here does not care.


You're a simpleton and insecure

Answer the thread question or don't bother post itt

[Spurs m8]

Who do you post this stuff for?

There is no audience here and everyone that is here does not care.

Wrong.

Many of us care.

[AussieSteve]

You're a simpleton and insecure

Answer the thread question or don't bother post itt

This thread doesn't pose a question for ArbitraryWater to answer. Simpleton.

[3ball]

This thread doesn't pose a question for ArbitraryWater to answer. Simpleton.


It's a thread, so posters are encouraged to comment on an opinion or set of facts laid out in the OP

At least that's how I thought it worked

But I went ahead and slid a question in the OP for Arbitrary

[Lebron23]

No one cares

[ArbitraryWater]

It's a thread, so posters are encouraged to comment on an opinion or set of facts laid out in the OP

At least that's how I thought it worked

But I went ahead and slid a question in the OP for Arbitrary

what "developed high seed" are you talking about?

The 2006 Cavs?


Can you show me anyone comparing the 2006 Cavs to the 1985 Bulls?

[3ball]

what "developed high seed" are you talking about?

The 2006 Cavs?


Can you show me anyone comparing the 2006 Cavs to the 1985 Bulls?


People say that 22 year Lebron carried scrubs to the playoffs and the Finals, while 22-year Jordan was losing in the 1st Round.

But that statement compares a high seed that was building for 2 years via lottery and trades, to a rookie 8 seed that had no time to build.

Furthermore, Zydrunas was a 2-time all-star and therefore not a "scrub"... Lebron infact never carried scrubs or low seeds to the playoffs or on deep runs, while Jordan did in 89'.

[NBAGOAT]

serious question for OP what's the difference between cartwright and zydrunas. Both two years removed from decent scoring seasons. By the year of the run, only averaging like 12ppg. Alright zydrunas is a 2 time all star compared to 1 time all star for Bill but by your own admission that being a former all star a any point absolves you from being a scrub and scoring is like 90% of basktball (cartwright put up 17.5ppg in 87) means cartwright isnt a scrub. Therefore how did MJ carry scrubs in 87? Just wondering if you could enlighten me why you make a claim not supported by your own logic.

[RRR3]

No one cares about LeBron tonight bub were talking about Curry. Keep up.

[Sportal]

3ball how much MJ merchandise do you have?

[8Ball]

before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as a favored, high seed..

So isn't it wrong to compare a developed, high seed to Jordan's rookie 8 seeds?

Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY (top defenses) - these high seeds easily contended in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while MJ had a Curry-like 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win it.


What went through your mind when this happened and Draymond Green was suspended?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-01-2016/YI59D1.gif

[Shooter]

serious question for OP what's the difference between cartwright and zydrunas. Both two years removed from decent scoring seasons. By the year of the run, only averaging like 12ppg. Alright zydrunas is a 2 time all star compared to 1 time all star for Bill but by your own admission that being a former all star a any point absolves you from being a scrub and scoring is like 90% of basktball (cartwright put up 17.5ppg in 87) means cartwright isnt a scrub. Therefore how did MJ carry scrubs in 87? Just wondering if you could enlighten me why you make a claim not supported by your own logic.

:lebronamazed:

[ImKobe]

serious question for OP what's the difference between cartwright and zydrunas. Both two years removed from decent scoring seasons. By the year of the run, only averaging like 12ppg. Alright zydrunas is a 2 time all star compared to 1 time all star for Bill but by your own admission that being a former all star a any point absolves you from being a scrub and scoring is like 90% of basktball (cartwright put up 17.5ppg in 87) means cartwright isnt a scrub. Therefore how did MJ carry scrubs in 87? Just wondering if you could enlighten me why you make a claim not supported by your own logic.

Big Z was a much better player with the Cavs than Cartwright on the Bulls. Stop it.

[tpols]

What went through your mind when this happened and Draymond Green was suspended?

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-01-2016/YI59D1.gif

Its still incredulous Dray was suspended for that. ^^^

Totally unbelievable.

[RRR3]

Big Z was a much better player with the Cavs than Cartwright on the Bulls. Stop it.
Yeah only because MJ ruined him. He was good until he got to the bulls check the stats. His last year with the Knicks he lost his starting job to Ewing because y know it was Ewing but he still put up great per 36 numbers and decent advanced stats. As soon as he got to the Bulls his efficiency and scoring rate massively tanked. 3ball blames LeBron for such cases so he needs to be consistent here.

[DABIGSALSISHA]

before entering the playoffs in Year 3 as a favored, high seed..

So isn't it wrong to compare a developed, high seed to Jordan's rookie 8 seeds?

Lebron/Zydrunas added a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY (top defenses) - these high seeds easily contended in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while MJ had a Curry-like 8 seed in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

LeJunk always had all the help HE NEEDED with ZILLIONS of different players of HIS choice. All the rest are excuses for his LACK of achievements when the subject are CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Guy HAS PLAYED WITH the BEST but still

4/20

[ImKobe]

Yeah only because MJ ruined him. He was good until he got to the bulls check the stats. His last year with the Knicks he lost his starting job to Ewing because y know it was Ewing but he still put up great per 36 numbers and decent advanced stats. As soon as he got to the Bulls his efficiency and scoring rate massively tanked. 3ball blames LeBron for such cases so he needs to be consistent here.

I don't wanna hear these bullshit excuses. Could make the same argument with Lebron since Wade, Love, Bosh, Irving, AD all peaked without him. If we look at it objectively though, he had a foot injury in NY, which basically made him miss 2 seasons and he was already on a decline before going to the Bulls.

[RRR3]

I don't wanna hear these bullshit excuses. Could make the same argument with Lebron since Wade, Love, Bosh, Irving, AD all peaked without him.
Not an excuse using your lover’s own logic against him. Sorry its making you have a tantrum.

And AD peaked with LeBron lol.

[ImKobe]

Not an excuse using your lover’s own logic against him. Sorry its making you have a tantrum.

And AD peaked with LeBron lol.

AD peaked in NO.

Cartwright had a foot injury that sidelined him for 2 seasons in NY and was already on a decline, he was a 20 mpg bench player the year before.

[DABIGSALSISHA]

Its still incredulous Dray was suspended for that. ^^^

Totally unbelievable.

They punished the DEFENDER of course to favour Leshit's team.

LeWEAK. Guy would've died in the 90's , that Beta stat pad queenlatiffa.

[Shooter]

Its still incredulous Dray was suspended for that. ^^^

Totally unbelievable.

He got a TECHNICAL foul.


16 techs and you get a suspension.

Do you understand now?

[RRR3]

AD peaked in NO.

Cartwright had a foot injury that sidelined him for 2 seasons in NY and was already on a decline, he was a 20 mpg bench player the year before.
When was AD getting compared to Kareem in NO?

You’re literally sobbing rn. Embarrassing stuff. Hope you get the help you need for your LDS

[mehyaM24]

Its still incredulous Dray was suspended for that. ^^^

Totally unbelievable.

bushleague suspension. makes the play-in look astute

[Shooter]

bushleague suspension. makes the play-in look astute

He got a tech after his 10th time hitting a man's nuts

Know your history my son

[3ball]

Its still incredulous Dray was suspended for that. ^^^

Totally unbelievable.


That's what he was suspended for?

Lebron trying to do the Allen Iverson step-over when it wasn't necessary?

Silver saw his chance and went for it.. It was a shot in the dark - a flyer to give the Cavs a praying chance

But what Silver doesn't understand is that late in a series, both teams are like well-oiled machines and running at a very high level - if you take out one of the pistons when the engine is running like that, the engine can't start running at full speed again right away - it takes a ramping up and the Warriors had no time for that..

[mehyaM24]

He got a tech after his 10th time hitting a man's nuts

Know your history my son

quit playing stan lol. lebron hurdled over dray, and dragged his sack over that poor mans head.

the suspension was soft as charmin. admit it.

[RRR3]

quit playing stan lol. lebron hurdled over dray, and dragged his sack over that poor mans head.

the suspension was soft as charmin. admit it.
Draymond legit should have been suspended for the entire playoffs for what he did versus OKC so meh

[ImKobe]

When was AD getting compared to Kareem in NO?

You’re literally sobbing rn. Embarrassing stuff. Hope you get the help you need for your LDS

AD was better in NO, simple as stat. He has more help on the Lakers, so he's able to get to the Playoffs and beat other good teams, but he peaked in New Orleans. That's like saying Kareem peaked with Magic because he won 5 rings with him. Nope.

[RRR3]

AD was better in NO, simple as stat. He has more help on the Lakers, so he's able to get to the Playoffs and beat other good teams, but he peaked in New Orleans. That's like saying Kareem peaked with Magic because he won 5 rings with him. Nope.
Tears splattered the keyboard as you typed this.

[tpols]

He got a TECHNICAL foul.


16 techs and you get a suspension.

Do you understand now?

He didnt get suspended because of a technical foul you idiot. He was suspended because it was ruled a flagrant foul after the game. Had nothing to do with technicals. 4 flagrant fouls carry an automatic suspension in the playoffs. How are you going to try and correct me and get it totally wrong?

And you put it in caps you dumb mother****er. :lol

[3ball]

So any answers as to why we compare developed, high seeds that had years of building via draft/trades, to a rookie 8 seed that didn't have any development?

Why do we compare developed, high seeds in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, to rookie 8 seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win?

Ultimately, both Lebron and MJ were winning 50 games and making the 2nd Round by healthy year 3 (88' and 06').. But by year 4 (89'), Jordan was nearly beating the champs (30 on 46%), while lebron was getting swept (22 on 35%)

[SouBeachTalents]

So any answers as to why we compare developed, high seeds that had years of building via draft/trades, to a rookie 8 seed that didn't have any development?

Why do we compare developed, high seeds in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, to rookie 8 seeds in a conference that required a super-team to win?

Ultimately, both Lebron and MJ were winning 50 games and making the 2nd Round by healthy year 3 (88' and 06').. But by year 4 (89'), Jordan was nearly beating the champs (30 on 46%), while lebron was getting swept (22 on 35%)
Nobody makes that comparison ya dumb fakkit

[TheCorporation]

He didnt get suspended because of a technical foul you idiot. He was suspended because it was ruled a flagrant foul after the game. Had nothing to do with technicals. 4 flagrant fouls carry an automatic suspension in the playoffs. How are you going to try and correct me and get it totally wrong?

And you put it in caps you dumb mother****er. :lol

So this dude knew the rules and still tried to be prevaricative (deviate from the truth). What a loon.

[ArbitraryWater]

serious question for OP what's the difference between cartwright and zydrunas. Both two years removed from decent scoring seasons. By the year of the run, only averaging like 12ppg. Alright zydrunas is a 2 time all star compared to 1 time all star for Bill but by your own admission that being a former all star a any point absolves you from being a scrub and scoring is like 90% of basktball (cartwright put up 17.5ppg in 87) means cartwright isnt a scrub. Therefore how did MJ carry scrubs in 87? Just wondering if you could enlighten me why you make a claim not supported by your own logic.


BOOM lmao

[TheCorporation]

That's what he was suspended for?

Lebron trying to do the Allen Iverson step-over when it wasn't necessary?

Silver saw his chance and went for it.. It was a shot in the dark - a flyer to give the Cavs a praying chance

But what Silver doesn't understand is that late in a series, both teams are like well-oiled machines and running at a very high level - if you take out one of the pistons when the engine is running like that, the engine can't start running at full speed again right away - it takes a ramping up and the Warriors had no time for that..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTS_D2i81-8

[3ball]

Nobody makes that comparison ya dumb fakkit


By saying that 22-year Lebron made the Finals, while 22-year Jordan lost in the first round, you're comparing a developed, high seed to a rookie 8 seed.

So pat yourself on the back for being a doofus




Nobody makes that comparison ya dumb fakkit


by saying that lebron carried bums to the playoffs or deep runs, you're lying since Love was a perennial all-star in 2018 and the best 2nd option in the conference, while Kyrie played in half the games in the 15' Eastern Playoffs (including half the ECF games)..

And by virtue of being a 2-time all-star, Zydrunas wasn't a "bum" and those Cavs had 2 years of building via lottery/trades to become a favored high seed.

So again, Lebron never carried bums to the playoffs or deep run, whereas MJ did from 85-89'.. Lebron barely won 40 games with the East all-star center in 05, or Rondo/Ingram in 20'.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Two years of building via lottery and trades. LOL. The lottery pick was Luke Jackson. What trades are we talking about? The framing doesn't make any sense unless it's meant to deflect away from the fact that neither the trades nor the lottery pick were good. Hide that the lottery pick was Luke Jackson by saying "lottery pick" and it sounds way more impressive.

It doesn't matter how much time you spend building by trade and lottery if you don't manage to bring in title quality pieces, something the Cavaliers unequivocally failed to do. But they didn't just fail to bring in quality pieces, their incompetence led to the loss of quality assets like Boozer for nothing.

Not only that, if we're using OP's standards, Jordan's rookie team was stacked with a 23ppg on .600ts side kick, an all-star two time all NBA defender, another all-star, and 2 all rookie player. Irrelevant accolades from years not actually being discussed are even between LeBron's teammates or if anything probably lean in Jordan's favor. Jordan started his career with a vastly superior scorer to any teammate LeBron ever had prior to Wade.

It's hard to understand what OP's specific complaint is since the post is so incoherent, but as close as I can tell he doesn't like LeBron's 3rd year team being compared to Jordan's first year team. So look at year three for both after both have had two years of seasoning and chance to build through draft and trade. Jordan was still getting low seeds with a losing record then getting swept out of first round despite having a two time all nba defender who led the league in dreb% and total rebounds on his team. Meanwhile LeBron is leading his team to 50 wins and taking recent champion Pistons to seven games in the second round.

[3ball]

Two years of building via lottery and trades. LOL. The lottery pick was Luke Jackson. What trades are we talking about? The framing doesn't make any sense unless it's meant to deflect away from the fact that neither the trades nor the lottery pick were good. Hide that the lottery pick was Luke Jackson by saying "lottery pick" and it sounds way more impressive.

It doesn't matter how much time you spend building by trade and lottery if you don't manage to bring in title quality pieces, something the Cavaliers unequivocally failed to do. But they didn't just fail to bring in quality pieces, their incompetence led to the loss of quality assets like Boozer for nothing.

Not only that, if we're using OP's standards, Jordan's rookie team was stacked with a 23ppg on .600ts side kick, an all-star two time all NBA defender, another all-star, and 2 all rookie player. Irrelevant accolades from years not actually being discussed are even between LeBron's teammates or if anything probably lean in Jordan's favor. Jordan started his career with a vastly superior scorer to any teammate LeBron ever had prior to Wade.

It's hard to understand what OP's specific complaint is since the post is so incoherent, but as close as I can tell he doesn't like LeBron's 3rd year team being compared to Jordan's first year team. So look at year three for both after both have had two years of seasoning and chance to build through draft and trade. Jordan was still getting low seeds with a losing record then getting swept out of first round despite having a two time all nba defender who led the league in dreb% and total rebounds on his team. Meanwhile LeBron is leading his team to 50 wins and taking recent champion Pistons to seven games in the second round.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/vault.si.com/.amp/vault/2005/08/15/how-larry-got-to-cleveland


HOW LARRY HUGHES GOT TO CLEVELAND

SI.com



He may have been the most important NBA free agent to change teams this summer, but the people of Cleveland were wary. As the Cavaliers announced the signing of Larry Hughes to a five-year, $60 million contract last Thursday at Gund Arena, several hundred fans, many on their lunch breaks, took turns grilling the 6'5"shooting guard. "What do you say to your critics who point out that you had your best year in a contract year?" asked one man. After responding that the ball didn't care about free agency when he shot it, Hughes did a slow burn as another fan mentioned his mediocre shooting (43.0%) with the Washington Wizards last season. "I'll get you two [points]," said the 26-year-old Hughes, "and I'll definitely not let the other guy get two or three at the other end, so that's a difference of four or five points right there." Hearing the combativeness in his voice, the crowd broke into applause.


Little did they know that Hughes had long before won over the franchise's most significant figure. Throughout 2004--05, All-Star small forward LeBron James had tried to persuade Hughes to come to Cleveland, where he could play Pippen to James's Jordan. LeBron's appeals intensified during a late-season Wizards win in which Hughes scored 31 to damage the Cavs' playoff chances. "We talked about it that whole game," says Hughes. "He kept saying, 'Come play with me.' And I kept saying, 'Nah, I'm staying in Washington.'



:yaohappy:

Hughes literally kept Lebron from the 05' Playoffs and then helped Arenas win the 1st Round... Then Lebron stole Hughes from Arenas and beat Arenas in the 1st Round

[Ainosterhaspie]

by saying that lebron carried bums to the playoffs or deep runs, you're lying since Love was a perennial all-star in 2018 and the best 2nd option in the conference, while Kyrie played in half the games in the 15' Eastern Playoffs (including half the ECF games)..

Sorry, but there is no argument for Love being the best second option in 2018 and he was nothing resembling a perennial all-star that season especially in the playoffs. I don't like to dump on him and call him a bum, to the contrary he was a critical piece for the Cavs for much of what they did, but his 2018 season especially in the playoffs was frequently terrible.

The Celtics for example had five players outscore Love, and the Pacers had four. That's not necessarily due to some inherent flaw with Love (unless you consider being injury prone such a flaw) because he entered the playoffs with a hand injury that made it hard for him to hold the ball well, but the fact is he was inconsistent at best those playoffs and had some downright terrible series.

[3ball]

Sorry, but there is no argument for Love being the best second option in 2018 and he was nothing resembling a perennial all-star that season





2018 Love........... 22.1 PER... 0.184 WS/48

92-96' Pippen...... 21.4 PER... 0.182 WS/48


FINALS

Love 2018........... 19/11 on 41%

Pippen Career...... 19/8 on 42%

[Ainosterhaspie]

2005 is irrelevant. He didn't play with LeBron that year. In 2006 Hughes got injured and was never again the player he was in '05. '05 was his peak as a player, a classic contract year career performance never to be repeated after getting the big payday.

Your Hughes argument is one of the many absurdities that you consistently promulgate while completely ignoring the relevant facts. Injury, and perhaps loss of motivation after getting paid, effectively ended his career in '06.

[Ainosterhaspie]

2018 Love........... 22.1 PER... 0.184 WS/48

92-96' Pippen...... 21.4 PER... 0.182 WS/48


FINALS

Love 2018........... 19/11 on 41%

Pippen Career...... 19/8 on 42%
Way to ignore the details that actually matter, his abysmal performances in round 1 and 3. At least with Pippen if his scoring was off, he still was an excellent defender and facilitator. You're comparing Love's strongest talent and it's basically a wash with Pippen. Once you add in Pippen's other strong suits, he trounces Love. Regular season stats are irrelevant. The issue is about playoff performance and Love's playoff performance in 2018 was downright terrible for two series.

Again, my aim isn't to crap on Love. The main problem was injury and when he was healthy, he was an excellent offensive supporting piece. But in the 2018 playoffs, he was dealing with an injury that crippled his production, and unlike Pippen, he was a mediocre defender at beat, so when he wasn't an effective scorer, his value plummeted.

[3ball]

his abysmal performances in round 3.

.


2018 Celtics.... 55 wins... #7 SRS.. 1 all-star.. 3.6 net rating

1989 Cavs........ 57 wins.. #1 SRS.. 3 all-star.. 7.7 net rating
1989 Knicks..... 52 wins.. #8 SRS.. 2 all-star.. 3.7 net rating


The 18' Celtics were a weak team and who cares about carry-jobs against weak teams?... The historical record shows that lebron can't beat top 5 SRS teams or Finals teams with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick - so he has zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing.

Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams because he's poor at the contested jumpshooting required of tough carry-jobs... the stats show that he avoids contested jumpshots (defers them to teammates), and therefore suffers in the clutch or at high volume.

Btw, it was pre-title Jordan and his sophomore low seed that beat the 89' Cavs, whereas Lebron was a veteran champion with a veteran champion team (and all-star sidekick) when he beat the 18' Celtics rookies..

Also, 89' Ewing was a dominant player and vastly superior to anyone on the 18' Celtics..

[Ainosterhaspie]

Way to derail your own thread with data from years that are completely irrelevant. You're talking about 06 Cavs and 85 Bulls. 89 and 18 teams have nothing to do with the topic. But that's your standard operating procedure, keep shifting to different topics as soon as you get cornered on the current one.