Pippen was barely top 50 in 1996 and many have since past him, so how is he top 30?

[3ball]

guys like Duncan, Giannis, Curry and many more have passed him, so he can't be top 50 anymore.

Unfortunately, the on-paper evaluations of new fans or media only see Pippen's 6 rings and therefore vastly overrate him compared to say, Ewing's 0 rings

it's an egregious mis-ranking and amounts to entertainment fraud - no one in the 90's thought Pippen was anywhere near Ewing - only the misguided, on-paper evaluations of new fans have elevated Pippen to top 30..

[scuzzy]

no pip no chip

[8Ball]

Wrong.

Pippen is top 20 according to espn. Wade is top 25.

[3ball]

no pip no chip


I caught your initial response, which signaled agreement, so clearly you see the issue.

Heck, if someone like Reggie Miller won rings with Jordan, he would be ranked top 30 all-time, just like Pippen..

Miller averaged 21 in the Playoffs and his futuristic shooting destroyed teams like the 94' Knicks, 95' Magic, or 2000 Lakers, while Pippen laid eggs against these same teams..

Miller led teams to the Finals and nearly beat the Bulls in 98' with no star teammates.. But again, the on-paper evaluations of new fans only see Pippen's 6 rings and therefore vastly overrate him compared to the 0 rings of Miller, Ewing or Drexler (better-producing 1st options that made the Finals).

[8Ball]

Reggie miller is a career 18/3/2 player. Which is worst than Klay Thompson.

Reggie miller is at best a top 50 player with or without rings.

If Scottie Pippen won 0 rings he would be top 30 at worst. Top 20 with 6 rings.

[3ball]

Reggie miller is a career 18/3/2 player. Which is worst than Klay Thompson.

Reggie miller is at best a top 50 player with or without rings.





Pippen was 16/6/5, so that's the same as Miller, except Pippen had lower PER, WS/48, VORP, and similar BPM





If Scottie Pippen won 0 rings he would be top 30 at worst. Top 20 with 6 rings.





With zero rings, Pippen would rank about 150th where his production rate stats rank (PER, WS/48, OBPM, peak VORP)

[8Ball]

Since when is doubling someone in assists and rebounds the same?

It's not.

Reggie miller is a career 18/3/2 player. Which is worst than Klay Thompson.

Reggie miller is at best a top 50 player with or without rings.

If Scottie Pippen won 0 rings he would be top 30 at worst. Top 20 with 6 rings.

[3ball]

Since when is doubling someone in assists and rebounds the same?

It's not.

Reggie miller is a career 18/3/2 player. Which is worst than Klay Thompson.

Reggie miller is at best a top 50 player with or without rings.

If Scottie Pippen won 0 rings he would be top 30 at worst. Top 20 with 6 rings.


Scoring and efficiency matter, so Miller had superior overall production rate, aka PER, WS/48, VORP, OBPM, etc

Otoh, Pippen's production rate ranks about 150th

[RRR3]

Snivelball :roll:

[8Ball]

Reggie miller is worst than Klay thompson. End of story.

Time to dig deeper in the excel spreadsheets.

[kentatm]

Since when is doubling someone in assists and rebounds the same?

It's not.

Reggie miller is a career 18/3/2 player. Which is worst than Klay Thompson.



Holy shit dude not to be that guy but this is twice in the same thread. The word you are looking for is "worse".

https://i.gifer.com/Sf9x.gif

[3ball]

Reggie miller is worst than Klay thompson. End of story.

Time to dig deeper in the excel spreadsheets.


Miller averaged 25-30 in the playoffs against the best teams and led teams to the Finals without star teammates, so he destroys Klay and Pippen.

He simply lacks the ring count, so he's erroneously ranked below both.

[3ball]

.
No one has an answer for why Pippen's borderline top 50 ranking in 1996 increased to top 30 in 2020 despite dozens of guys passing him (Curry, Giannis, etc).

So clearly, the on-paper evaluations of new fans/media only see Pippen's 6 rings and therefore vastly overrate him compared to 0 rings for say, Ewing or Giannis.

it's an egregious mis-ranking and amounts to entertainment fraud - no one in the 90's thought Pippen was anywhere near Ewing - only the misguided, on-paper evaluations of new fans have elevated Pippen to top 30..

[ShawkFactory]

guys like Duncan, Giannis, Curry and many more have passed him, so he can't be top 50 anymore.

Unfortunately, the on-paper evaluations of new fans or media only see Pippen's 6 rings and therefore vastly overrate him compared to say, Ewing's 0 rings

it's an egregious mis-ranking and amounts to entertainment fraud - no one in the 90's thought Pippen was anywhere near Ewing - only the misguided, on-paper evaluations of new fans have elevated Pippen to top 30..

And why does this bother you so?

[TAZORAC]

Reggie miller is a career 18/3/2 player. Which is worst than Klay Thompson.

Reggie miller is at best a top 50 player with or without rings.

If Scottie Pippen won 0 rings he would be top 30 at worst. Top 20 with 6 rings.

O please, if you took players who played POST 2000, Pippen isn't top 30

[8Ball]

Miller averaged 25-30 in the playoffs against the best teams and led teams to the Finals without star teammates, so he destroys Klay and Pippen.

He simply lacks the ring count, so he's erroneously ranked below both.

Reggie Miller is a career playoff 20ppg / 2 assists / 3 rebounds.

Dog shit for a 1st option opponent.

Klay Thompson is career 20/4/2

[8Ball]

O please, if you took players who played POST 2000, Pippen isn't top 30

Wrong.

This was done in 2020:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105681/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-40-11

Pippen is #21

[3ball]

Wrong.

This was done in 2020:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29105681/ranking-top-74-nba-players-all-nos-40-11

Pippen is #21


It shows how much the 6 rings inflated Pippen

He was barely top 50 in 1996, but now ranks ahead of guys like Giannis, Harden, Ewing, Kawhi and many more that he never played anywhere near as well as

He's given credit for 6 rings like he's a 1st option, when he's always been synonymous with 2nd option and secondary production

[3ball]

No one has offered an explanation for why Pippen's ranking increased in the last 25 years despite dozens of guys passing him.

Clearly, the on-paper evaluations of new fans/media only see Pippen's 6 rings and therefore vastly overrate him compared to 0 rings for say, Ewing or Giannis.

it's an egregious mis-ranking - no one in the 90's thought Pippen was anywhere near Ewing - only the misguided, on-paper evaluations of new fans have elevated Pippen to top 30..

[AlternativeAcc.]

It shows how much the 6 rings inflated Pippen

He was barely top 50 in 1996, but now ranks ahead of guys like Giannis, Harden, Ewing, Kawhi and many more that he never played anywhere near as well as

Pippen was the main playmaker, defender, and leader who had the soft skills MJ lacked.

Jordan stole the glory and shots, but Pippen was THE GUY. Everybody in the lockerroom knew it. They knew without Pippen they could never sniff a title. They smelled one when Jordan quit - and that solidified their belief in Scottie as the man.

Statistics won't ever tell the real truth so that's why you hide behind them and compare Scottie to guys who put up big stats while losing early in the playoffs every year. But it's BOGUS and nobody takes it seriously. It's WEAK.

You also have labeled Bill Russell the GOAT on many occasions, despite his stats and defensive impact being worse than Scotties. So your hypocrisy and inconsistencies further negate your talking points.

Scottie is top 15 all-time and there's no amount of crying you can do to change that.

[8Ball]

No one has offered an explanation for why Pippen's ranking increased in the last 25 years despite dozens of guys passing him.

Clearly, the on-paper evaluations of new fans/media only see Pippen's 6 rings and therefore vastly overrate him compared to 0 rings for say, Ewing or Giannis.

it's an egregious mis-ranking - no one in the 90's thought Pippen was anywhere near Ewing - only the misguided, on-paper evaluations of new fans have elevated Pippen to top 30..

Pippen was the main playmaker, defender, and leader who had the soft skills MJ lacked.

Jordan stole the glory and shots, but Pippen was THE GUY. Everybody in the lockerroom knew it. They knew without Pippen they could never sniff a title. They smelled one when Jordan quit - and that solidified their belief in Scottie as the man.

Statistics won't ever tell the real truth so that's why you hide behind them and compare Scottie to guys who put up big stats while losing early in the playoffs every year. But it's BOGUS and nobody takes it seriously. It's WEAK.

You also have labeled Bill Russell the GOAT on many occasions, despite his stats and defensive impact being worse than Scotties. So your hypocrisy and inconsistencies further negate your talking points.

Scottie is top 15 all-time and there's no amount of crying you can do to change that.

[Shooter]

Since when is doubling someone in assists and rebounds the same?

It's not.

Reggie miller is a career 18/3/2 player. Which is worst than Klay Thompson.

Reggie miller is at best a top 50 player with or without rings.

If Scottie Pippen won 0 rings he would be top 30 at worst. Top 20 with 6 rings.

MY GOODNESS

We have a BLOODBATH

[Shooter]

Pippen was the main playmaker, defender, and leader who had the soft skills MJ lacked.

Jordan stole the glory and shots, but Pippen was THE GUY. Everybody in the lockerroom knew it. They knew without Pippen they could never sniff a title. They smelled one when Jordan quit - and that solidified their belief in Scottie as the man.

Statistics won't ever tell the real truth so that's why you hide behind them and compare Scottie to guys who put up big stats while losing early in the playoffs every year. But it's BOGUS and nobody takes it seriously. It's WEAK.

You also have labeled Bill Russell the GOAT on many occasions, despite his stats and defensive impact being worse than Scotties. So your hypocrisy and inconsistencies further negate your talking points.

Scottie is top 15 all-time and there's no amount of crying you can do to change that.

Call 9-1-1

There's been a brutal murder!!!

[light]

In 1995 Pippen was the first player since 1978 and the 2nd player overall to lead his team in every major category. He's next level.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Pippen was the main playmaker, defender, and leader who had the soft skills MJ lacked.

Jordan stole the glory and shots, but Pippen was THE GUY. Everybody in the lockerroom knew it. They knew without Pippen they could never sniff a title. They smelled one when Jordan quit - and that solidified their belief in Scottie as the man.

Statistics won't ever tell the real truth so that's why you hide behind them and compare Scottie to guys who put up big stats while losing early in the playoffs every year. But it's BOGUS and nobody takes it seriously. It's WEAK.

You also have labeled Bill Russell the GOAT on many occasions, despite his stats and defensive impact being worse than Scotties. So your hypocrisy and inconsistencies further negate your talking points.

Scottie is top 15 all-time and there's no amount of crying you can do to change that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2nUi2fxoNQ

[Ainosterhaspie]

OP already made this thread a month or two ago. As I pointed out then, Pippen didn't retire in 96. He continued playing several more years improving his all time ranking each year. So while some may have passed him since 96, he also passed many because of play that occurred after 96. That is how he moved up overall and was passed by by some newer players.

Shit's not complicated.

[ImKobe]

He's not. Don't let LeESPN fool you. Pippen gets more credit for those rings than he should. He was a horrible offensive player for the vast majority of those series.


In 1995 Pippen was the first player since 1978 and the 2nd player overall to lead his team in every major category. He's next level.

And that team was barely .500 and holding onto the Playoffs before MJ returned and won 13 out of 17 RS games.

[RRR3]

ImSobbing desperately begging for 3ball’s approval. Pathetic.

[3ball]

Pippen didn't retire in 96. He continued playing several more years improving his all time ranking each year.


.


Pippen averaged 17/7/5 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs, and 11 ppg in the 99-03' Playoffs

For anyone else, that would crater their ranking..

Only Pippen is carried by his association with the goat and his goat dynasty.. Again, Reggie Miller would be top 30 too if he won chips as 2nd option to Jordan - anyone would.

[Shooter]

In 1995 Pippen was the first player since 1978 and the 2nd player overall to lead his team in every major category. He's next level.

Hello Police? I've witnessed a murder

[Smoke117]

1-9. No Pip, no chip.

[light]

Who has quarterbacked the defense of a championship team six times like Pippen? Jordan didn't even do that. Just Bill Russell.

[Manny98]

No Pip No Chip

[3ball]

Who has quarterbacked the defense of a championship team six times like Pippen? Jordan didn't even do that. Just Bill Russell.


93' Jordan was clearly viewed as the Bulls' best defender, and even the LEAGUE'S:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GilQsS3oifM&t=02m47s



Here's the exchange in the 91' Finals between Marv Albert and Mike Fratello when MJ gets his 2nd foul in Game 2:



ALBERT: Do you stay with Jordan on Johnson?

FRATELLO: There's no question that he's the best guy to play Magic Johnson, but maybe you pick and choose when you put him on Magic..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o8l6oM6Jeg&t=12m23s



^^^ this sentiment was echoed by the NBA in the Bulls' Championship Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeAUz2dZ_NQ&t=35m03s





Who has quarterbacked the defense of a championship team six times like Pippen? Jordan didn't even do that. Just Bill Russell.



DPOY VOTING

1988.... MJ (1st).... Pip (none)
1989.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1990.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1991.... MJ (7th).... Pip (7th)
1992.... MJ (3rd).... Pip (3rd)
1993.... MJ (2nd)... Pip (none)
1996.... MJ (5th).... Pip (2nd)
1997.... MJ (5th).... Pip (4th)
1998.... MJ (4th).... Pip (9th)



How much evidence do you need.... :kobe:

Jordan was clearly the defensive leader, while doubling Pippen's playoff scoring and assisting 33% more often (goat load)

Jordan was top 5 DPOY and scoring champ from 88-98' (goat standard)





Who has quarterbacked the defense of a championship team six times like Pippen? Jordan didn't even do that. Just Bill Russell.


Pippen's defense resulted in the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat, including weaker defenses than Finals/ECF opponents.

So he wasn't that great of a defender and his defense is a crutch people developed over 30 years of not being able to compliment his offense
.

[light]

https://s3.gifyu.com/images/Screen-Shot-2021-05-28-at-4.45.50-PM.png

https://i.postimg.cc/CKNFwfn3/mj-ring-flowchart.png