89' MJ beat the #1 SRS team with 15 on 40% from 2nd option - greatest carry-job ever?

[3ball]

When did anyone beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick?

Did it require 40/6/8 or the goat series-walk-off and did they call it (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSPo7lPyAlc&t=17m27s)?

Jordan's victory with a low-seeded cast of undecorated role players over 3 all-stars and the #1 SRS team is the biggest talent deficit that's ever been overcome, aka greatest upset and also the most meaningful - Jordan's unlikely ECF run changed the entire trajectory of the franchise.

[Shooter]

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?

[SouBeachTalents]

After hearing about how shitty Pippen is, don't know how impressive it is to beat a team who didn't have a single player average more ppg than first 3peat Pippen did. Then on top of that, their leading scorer in that series (Harper) went on to be like Jordan's 6th option during the 2nd 3peat.

So there's really no good way to spin it, either Jordan beat a team with nobody better than Pippen, who you swear is a bum, or his team was stacked to the brim with his opponents top scorer ending up being his 6th option

[3ball]

After hearing about how shitty Pippen is, don't know how impressive it is to beat a team who didn't have a single player average more ppg than first 3peat Pippen did.

Then on top of that, their leading scorer in that series (Harper) went on to be like Jordan's 6th option during the 2nd 3peat.





Harper averaged 20/5/5 in addition to the 3 all-stars, so the Cavs were stacked and spread the wealth

aka Jordan beat a Big 4 with nothing

And Harper was already a 7 ppg player in 1995 before MJ came back

So as usual, every sentence of your post was wrong

[Shooter]

Dont run

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?

[ShawkFactory]

For a second I thought you were just bumping threads you've already made. In some cases several times.

But why do that when you can just make the same one over again. That way no one can reference all the points that have already been made on the subject.

:sleeping

[3ball]

Dont run

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?


Jordan made the 2nd Round with an 8 ppg sidekick, while Lebron needed a 2-time all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition, and the future COY (top defenses)

[Shooter]

Jordan made the 2nd Round with an 8 ppg sidekick, while Lebron needed a 2-time all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition, and the future COY (top defenses)

Are you comparing Larry Hughes to Scottie Pippen again?

Why did MJ need Pippen, Grant, and Oakley just to beat Mark Price?

[3ball]

Are you comparing Larry Hughes to Scottie Pippen again?

Why did MJ need Pippen, Grant, and Oakley just to beat Mark Price?


Rookie Pippen averaged 8 ppg in 1988, yet Jordan made the 2nd Round.

Otoh, Lebron couldn't make the 2nd Round without a 2-time all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition, and the future COY (top defenses)

Ultimately, Lebron always enjoyed high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had deep runs with low seeds and undecorated role players in a conference that required a super-team to win it

[8Ball]

Rookie Pippen averaged 8 ppg in 1988, yet Jordan made the 2nd Round.

Otoh, Lebron couldn't make the 2nd Round without a 2-time all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition, and the future COY (top defenses)

Ultimately, Lebron always enjoyed high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan had deep runs with low seeds and undecorated role players in a conference that required a super-team to win it

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?

[8Ball]

Jordan made the 2nd Round with an 8 ppg sidekick, while Lebron needed a 2-time all-star center, a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition, and the future COY (top defenses)

After hearing about how shitty Pippen is, don't know how impressive it is to beat a team who didn't have a single player average more ppg than first 3peat Pippen did. Then on top of that, their leading scorer in that series (Harper) went on to be like Jordan's 6th option during the 2nd 3peat.

So there's really no good way to spin it, either Jordan beat a team with nobody better than Pippen, who you swear is a bum, or his team was stacked to the brim with his opponents top scorer ending up being his 6th option

[8Ball]

Jordan got his shit pushed in 3 years in a row by a top 40 player Isiah Thomas :lol

[ImKobe]

Are you comparing Larry Hughes to Scottie Pippen again?

Why did MJ need Pippen, Grant, and Oakley just to beat Mark Price?

Mark Price, Ron Harper, Larry Nance AND Brad Daugherty.. Pippen had the 8th highest PPG in that '88 first round series. 5 guys on the Cavs averaged more ppg than Oakley and Pippen, and they were more efficient too.

[3ball]

After hearing about how shitty Pippen is, don't know how impressive it is to beat a team who didn't have a single player average more ppg than first 3peat Pippen did. Then on top of that, their leading scorer in that series (Harper) went on to be like Jordan's 6th option during the 2nd 3peat.





Harper averaged 20/5/5 in addition to the 3 all-stars, so the Cavs were stacked and spread the wealth

aka Jordan beat a Big 4 with nothing

And Harper was already a 7 ppg player in 1995 before MJ came back

[8Ball]

Harper averaged 20/5/5 in addition to the 3 all-stars, so the Cavs were stacked and spread the wealth

aka Jordan beat a Big 4 with nothing

And Harper was already a 7 ppg player in 1995 before MJ came back

Jordan got his shit pushed in 3 years in a row by a top 40 player Isiah Thomas :lol

[Shooter]

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?

Gottem

:roll::roll:

[ImKobe]

Jordan got his shit pushed in 3 years in a row by a top 40 player Isiah Thomas :lol

Lebron lost to Dwight Howard, Magic didn't even have Jameer Nelson for the series. Yikes.

[Shooter]

Jordan got his shit pushed in 3 years in a row by a top 40 player Isiah Thomas :lol

Jesus 3 years in a row? Is that true??

[3ball]

Jordan got his shit pushed in 3 years in a row by a top 40 player Isiah Thomas :lol


Actually, every starter on the Pistons was a 3x all-star, so Jordan's undecorated cast of role players was beaten by an all-star team, until MJ beat them with no all-stars (91')

[8Ball]

Lebron lost to Dwight Howard, Magic didn't even have Jameer Nelson for the series. Yikes.

Dwight Howard >>>>> Isiah Thomas. And it didn't happen 3 years in a row like what happened to jordan.:oldlol:

[8Ball]

Actually, every starter on the Pistons was a 3x all-star, so Jordan's undecorated cast of role players was beaten by an all-star team, until MJ beat them with no all-stars (91')

2015 Atlanta Hawks had 4 all stars and LeBron swept them. :applause:

[3ball]

Dwight Howard >>>>> Isiah Thomas. And it didn't happen 3 years in a row like what happened to jordan.:oldlol:


The 2009 Magic were massive underdogs

They weren't champs or a dynasty like the Pistons - Jordan had lottery casts against dynasties, while lebron had the league favorite and lost

[3ball]

2015 Atlanta Hawks had 4 all stars and LeBron swept them. :applause:


Kyrie played in half the games in that series and those playoffs, while JR Smith achieved prime Pippen stats anyway (18/8 on 60%).

Otoh, 89' Jordan led a cast of undecorated role players and low seed to a deep run, despite Pippen being a trash role player

[ImKobe]

Dwight Howard >>>>> Isiah Thomas.

:facepalm cmon, you can do better than that.

[KirbyPls]

After hearing about how shitty Pippen is, don't know how impressive it is to beat a team who didn't have a single player average more ppg than first 3peat Pippen did. Then on top of that, their leading scorer in that series (Harper) went on to be like Jordan's 6th option during the 2nd 3peat.

So there's really no good way to spin it, either Jordan beat a team with nobody better than Pippen, who you swear is a bum, or his team was stacked to the brim with his opponents top scorer ending up being his 6th option

I think we are done here.

[3ball]

After hearing about how shitty Pippen is, don't know how impressive it is to beat a team who didn't have a single player average more ppg than first 3peat Pippen did. Then on top of that, their leading scorer in that series (Harper) went on to be like Jordan's 6th option during the 2nd 3peat.

So there's really no good way to spin it, either Jordan beat a team with nobody better than Pippen, who you swear is a bum, or his team was stacked to the brim with his opponents top scorer ending up being his 6th option


Exactly, the 89' Cavs had 4 Pippen's - 4 guys averaging prime Pippen's scoring because Harper averaged 20/5/5 on top of the 3 all-stars.

So Jordan beat a big 4 with nothing... He beat 4 prime Pippen's with rookie pippen

[8Ball]

:facepalm cmon, you can do better than that.


3× All-NBA First Team (1984–1986)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1983, 1987)

vs

5× All-NBA First Team (2008–2012)
All-NBA Second Team (2014)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2007, 2013)
3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2009–2011)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008)


Yeah. Give me a ****ing break on Isiah Thomas. Losing to IT 3 years in a row when IT didn't even make all-nba team 88-90 is a disgrace.

[SouBeachTalents]

Exactly, the 89' Cavs had 4 Pippen's - 4 guys averaging prime Pippen's scoring because Harper averaged 20/5/5 on top of the 3 all-stars.

So Jordan beat a big 4 with nothing... He beat 4 prime Pippen's with rookie pippen
Yeah, but you've been telling us for years Pippen sucks as a 2nd option, so to have a team with nobody even better than that as their leading scorer? Sounds like a weak ass team to me, Jordan essentially beat nothing more than, according to you, a team composed of Larry Hughes, JR Smith & Boobie Gibson

[ImKobe]

3× All-NBA First Team (1984–1986)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1983, 1987)

vs

5× All-NBA First Team (2008–2012)
All-NBA Second Team (2014)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2007, 2013)
3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2009–2011)
4× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009–2012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008)


Yeah. Give me a ****ing break on Isiah Thomas.

So Dwight made more All-NBA teams, but Zeke was one play away from 3-Peating in the Bird/Magic era. :facepalm

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nobody on that cavs team ever produced a season like 2021 Embiid or had a playoff run like 2020 Jimmy Butler.

So Kawhi beating the 76ers in 2019 still remains the greatest carry job in NBA history.

[3ball]

Yeah, but you've been telling us for years Pippen sucks as a 2nd option, so to have a team with nobody even better than that as their leading scorer? Sounds like a weak ass team to me, Jordan essentially beat nothing more than, according to you, a team composed of Larry Hughes, JR Smith & Boobie Gibson


Beating 4 Pippen's with 1 Pippen is overcoming a bigger talent deficit than lebron ever did, and it's a better team than Lebron ever beat in the East

[Axe]

Beating 4 Pippen's with 1 Pippen is overcoming a bigger talent deficit than lebron ever did, and it's a better team than Lebron ever beat in the East
Says the same guy who said oubre > klay some months ago.

[light]

That was the season where Jordan cried on the bus after the Pistons eliminated him. lol.

[SouBeachTalents]

Beating 4 Pippen's with 1 Pippen is overcoming a bigger talent deficit than lebron ever did, and it's a better team than Lebron ever beat in the East
Nope, if Pippen's scoring is atrocious for a 2nd option, it's a joke as the teams leading scorer

[3ball]

Says the same guy who said oubre > klay some months ago.


Sometimes I still think in basketball terms (2-pointers)

[3ball]

Nope, if Pippen's scoring is atrocious for a 2nd option, it's a joke as the teams leading scorer


Cavs had 4 prime Pippen's and a better defense than the 1st three-peat Bulls

Jordan had 1 pippen and he was the sophomore, role player version.

aka the biggest talent deficit ever overcome

[ShawkFactory]

Sometimes I still think in basketball terms (2-pointers)

Oubre is good at nothing

[SouBeachTalents]

Cavs had 4 prime Pippen's and a better defense than the 1st three-peat Bulls

Jordan had 1 pippen and he was the sophomore, role player version.

aka the biggest talent deficit ever overcome
But Pippen is 150th all time talent according to you, beating a team with not even a top 100 caliber player is not even a worthy achievement

[3ball]

Oubre is good at nothing


Neither is Klay is we scrubbed that 3-point line off the court and neither is klay

[3ball]

But Pippen is 150th all time talent according to you, beating a team with not even a top 100 caliber player is not even a worthy achievement





Beating four top 150 guys is a great achievement if you have a g-league cast yourself

Leading a g-league cast over the #1 SRS team and four top 150 guys is goat

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball logic: Jordan's by far the GOAT, no human has ever come close to him. And Pippen's a bum who's barely a top 150 caliber talent. Yet Jordan beating a team with a sub Pippen caliber player as their leading scorer is the GOAT accomplishment :oldlol:

[Axe]

Sometimes I still think in basketball terms (2-pointers)
You sir are unhinged.

[2ball]

PLAYOFFS

13' Wade...'.. 18.7 PER.. 0.105 ws/48.. 3.1 BPM.. 1.0 VORP
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 2.0 BPM.. 0.8 VORP

14' Wade...'.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm


Per 100 Possessions

14' Wade...'.. 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg



TLDR: From 2013-2016, Wade had the same PER, WS/48, scoring, efficiency and assists as prime Pippen:. People were simply disappointed that he fell from "Flash" Wade to Pippen-level (wade's assists were actually depressed under lebron, but otherwise Wade had previously been a bigger assist guy than pippen)

[8Ball]

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?

[light]

It would've been special if he made it to the Finals, but he finished that season losing 3 games in a row in the conference finals, even with Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant.

If Jordan was ever able to do something like what LeBron did in 2007 or 2012, 2013, 2016 or 2018 then he would get consideration for greatest carry job, but MJ never did that.

[3ball]

3ball logic: Jordan's by far the GOAT, no human has ever come close to him. And Pippen's a bum who's barely a top 150 caliber talent. Yet Jordan beating a team with a sub Pippen caliber player as their leading scorer is the GOAT accomplishment :oldlol:


The 89' Cavs > 07' Pistons or 18' Celtics

^^^ based on wins, SRS, net rating, preseason odds, everything

So Jordan led a low seed and undecorated cast of role players over a better opponent than Lebron ever beat in the East, while Lebron needed high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes just to make the playoffs




3ball logic: Jordan's by far the GOAT, no human has ever come close to him. And Pippen's a bum who's barely a top 150 caliber talent. Yet Jordan beating a team with a sub Pippen caliber player as their leading scorer is the GOAT accomplishment :oldlol:


Jordan beat the #1 SRS Cavs and numerous top 5 SRS teams with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (carry-jobs against a good teams), while Lebron has zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing.. (we already know that he can't handle the additional jumpshooting required of tough carry-jobs and infact avoids contested jumpers)

Btw, only Lebron lost to 1-star teams (09', 11')... Only Lebron lost as the favorite (09-11' and 14')... Only Lebron lost with super-teams (14', 17')... Only Lebron lost by record amount (14', 18')... Don't compare this bum to Jordan

[Axe]

PLAYOFFS

13' Wade...'.. 18.7 PER.. 0.105 ws/48.. 3.1 BPM.. 1.0 VORP
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 2.0 BPM.. 0.8 VORP

14' Wade...'.. 18.5 PER.. 0.086 ws/48.. 1.6 obpm
93' Pippen... 16.9 PER.. 0.083 ws/48.. 1.1 obpm


Per 100 Possessions

14' Wade...'.. 28.6 pts.. 6.2 ast.. 56.0 ts.. 106 ortg
93' Pippen... 26.2 pts.. 7.4 ast.. 50.0 ts.. 102 ortg



TLDR: From 2013-2016, Wade had the same PER, WS/48, scoring, efficiency and assists as prime Pippen:. People were simply disappointed that he fell from "Flash" Wade to Pippen-level (wade's assists were actually depressed under lebron, but otherwise Wade had previously been a bigger assist guy than pippen)
Trump in his younger years was a handsome man

[Shooter]

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?

:lol

SHUT IT DOWN

[3ball]

The 89' Cavs > 07' Pistons or 18' Celtics

^^^ based on wins, SRS, all-stars, net rating, preseason odds, everything

So Jordan led a low seed and undecorated cast of role players over a better opponent than Lebron ever beat in the East, while Lebron needed high seeds and teammates with all-star resumes just to make the playoffs




Jordan beat the #1 SRS Cavs and numerous top 5 SRS teams with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (carry-jobs against a good teams), while Lebron has zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing.. (we already know that he can't handle the additional jumpshooting required of tough carry-jobs and infact avoids contested jumpers)

Btw, only Lebron lost to 1-star teams (09', 11')... Only Lebron lost as the favorite (09-11' and 14')... Only Lebron lost with super-teams (14', 17')... Only Lebron lost by record amount (14', 18')... Don't compare this bum to Jordan





SouBeach on his bike

[Honor Boost]

That's why he is the greatest

[kawhileonard2]

That's why he is the greatest

This! Also never won bronze for America nor lost with HCA.

[And1AllDay]

Let me get this straight.

After 3 years of 1-9 and zero 1st round wins it took:
Jordan, Pippen, Grant, & Oakley

Just to beat 21 ppg Mark Price?

1st post slays just hit different

wrap it up

[Ainosterhaspie]

Beating regular season overachieving ensemble casts is not a particularly impressive achievement. Such teams are routinely exposed in the playoffs. As mentioned earlier, this is similar to LeBron sweeping the four all-star 2015 Hawks with JR what's the score Smith as his best help.