Is Luka's ball-dominance starting to be solved like CP3, Nash or pre-decision Lebron?

[3ball]

Is he going to choke off the series by having his unsophisticated, playground king style solved like 10' and 11' Lebron?

He's holding the ball a record 11 minutes per game and holding the ball for half the shot clock after the 8 second backcourt count:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1

[1987_Lakers]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

[tpols]

I'm amazed by his ability to navigate with the dribble. But yea... If Hardaway and Kleber don't shoot 70% from 3, this series is 1-2 or 0-3.

The thing is Luka is an amazing shooter and passer off the dribble. Nash is a champion in 2007 without a bogus suspension, and Chris Paul is a champion in 2018 without the injury.

Being a ball dominator can work so long as you are a great shooter.

[3ball]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.


Luka's 11 minutes of hold-time is 20% more than Harden's ridiculous season in 2019.

Jordan never held the ball anywhere near that much and was never a ball-dominator - he was an off-guard/shooter

Most importantly, when Jordan had a teammate performing at Porzingis' level, he went 6/6... Porzingis averages 21/7 in the playoffs with 22 PER

[Shooter]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

[3ball]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.


Luka will always be a ball-dominator, so he'll never win like players with elite jumpshooting skill, aka Bird, Dirk, Kobe, Jordan, KD

[RRR3]

Shook of Luka already :oldlol:

[999Guy]

Name a defense that actually solved prime Chris Paul.


I gotta say Luka is the most ball dominant I’ve ever seen.

But he’s massive with a seemingly unlimited variety of shots at the rim off pivot, fakes, hesitations, muscle moves lebron/Harden fashion, with a natural floater/mid range touch guys like Harden and lebron have never had.

He can’t shoot 3’s very well at all but he’s hella resilient and definitely not some guy defenses just solve like Lillard.

Hell, he’s killing LAC, why make this thread now?

[3ball]

Name a defense that actually solved prime Chris Paul.


I gotta say Luka is the most ball dominant I’ve ever seen.

But he’s massive with a seemingly unlimited variety of shots at the rim off pivot, fakes, hesitations, muscle moves lebron/Harden fashion, with a natural floater/mid range touch guys like Harden and lebron have never had.

He can’t shoot 3’s very well at all but he’s hella resilient and definitely not some guy defenses just solve like Lillard.

Hell, he’s killing LAC, why make this thread now?


See that's the problem - high scoring from him equals dribble-heavy rim attacks that get beat by ball movement as the series progresses

It's the same problem that lebron has and it's why lebron never wins outside the first round with high scoring (35+)

Otoh, jumpshooters like Jordan, Bird, Kobe or KD can score in bunches while the ball moves, so they can win with high scoring carry-jobs against the top teams

[Axe]

Luka will always be a ball-dominator, so he'll never win like players with elite jumpshooting skill, aka Bird, Dirk, Kobe, Jordan, KD
Ball hog

[3ball]

Ball hog


Reggie Miller can take 30 shots but he won't ball-hog (dominate the ball, aka excessive live-dribbles)

But it's easy to conflate ball-dominance/hogging with high shot attempts - Jordan did the latter, but not the former

[Axe]

Reggie Miller can take 30 shots but he won't ball-hog (dominate the ball, aka excessive live-dribbles)

But it's easy to conflate ball-dominance/hogging with high shot attempts - Jordan did the latter, but not the former
No triangle, no bustle

[zeerghit]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along

[dirkdiggler41]

One of the many reason why Chis Paul, Steve Nash, Luka Doncic, James Harden etc. got the ball so much is that the other players on the team can't handle the ball like them. We clearly saw what happened when Luka went out or played offball.

[8Ball]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

[LeCola]

He just plays Lebronball.

Doncic + 4 3pt shooters that are waiting outside the box.

Doncic attacks to rim:

if there is a help defense passes for open 3.

else finishes under the rim.

It is just a bug of the current rules.

[StrongLurk]

Mods, please do something about OPs incessant spamming of the same topic.

[And1AllDay]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

[r0drig0lac]

One of the many reason why Chis Paul, Steve Nash, Luka Doncic, James Harden etc. got the ball so much is that the other players on the team can't handle the ball like them. We clearly saw what happened when Luka went out or played offball.

No

[SATAN]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

:oldlol:

[DABIGSALSISHA]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

Just like lebron "ball dominance lol" was solved up by the Spurs, J.J., Terry, Kerr, Green, and so many others.

[ShawkFactory]

Well his team is up 2-1 and currently has home court advantage against a team that is unequivocally more talented. And he’s completely dominated all 3 games.

The Clippers won tonight because they shot almost 60% from the field..not because Luka has been “figured out”.

Clown

[Ainosterhaspie]

Clippers have superior talent. Clippers have superior defenders. Luka is still up in the series. Thebissuebif he loses the series isn't ball dominance, it's that his team isn't very good. That is painfully obvious to anyone watching.

Moving the ball isn't a magic cure to weak weak offense and it can produce worse offense if the personnel and coaching isn't fit for such a system. Spending a bunch if time letting turnoverprone bad decision makers pass the ball isn't going to lead to wins.

Lots of passing is a great ideal, but if the roster can't manage it, then it's nice to have a star who can get his own shots and create shots for others out of nothing.

The biggest limiting factor for the Mavs is that they don't have great defenders and the biggest problem with Luka's game I that he isn't that great a defender either.

[90sgoat]

Luka won't win a ring until he learns to play with a 1b type of player.

That 1b is not Porzingis though.

Luka needs a big who can create on his own and play tough on both ends. I would say AD, because.. well they have the same type of player in Lebron.

Prime Blake Griffin would also have been a good choice.

I'm not sure which younger power forward is a good fit now tho.

[Chick Stern]

I'm amazed by his ability to navigate with the dribble. But yea... If Hardaway and Kleber don't shoot 70% from 3, this series is 1-2 or 0-3.

The thing is Luka is an amazing shooter and passer off the dribble. Nash is a champion in 2007 without a bogus suspension, and Chris Paul is a champion in 2018 without the injury.

Being a ball dominator can work so long as you are a great shooter.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrossGrippingFiddlercrab-max-1mb.gif

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Luka is a LeBron worshipper

Kawhi is a Jordan worshipper

It's obvious that kawhi's game is more effective and all his advanced stats beat Luka in this series. Kawhi actually lets his team dribble the ball hahahah while luka freezes out porzingis and turns him into a role player

[ShawkFactory]

Luka is a LeBron worshipper

Kawhi is a Jordan worshipper

It's obvious that kawhi's game is more effective and all his advanced stats beat Luka in this series. Kawhi actually lets his team dribble the ball hahahah while luka freezes out porzingis and turns him into a role player

Does “turning someone into a role player” now mean making them better?

KP is having the best season of his career by every single measure. Advanced stats or otherwise.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Does “turning someone into a role player” now mean making them better?

KP is having the best season of his career by every single measure. Advanced stats or otherwise.

14PPG on weak efficiency and a -1.7 BPM these playoffs

Turning into shit due to Luka ball.

[3ball]

Chalk up another win for 3ball.. MJ fam wins 70 every year on here

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Great call 3ball. Luka is shooting like 40% from the free throw line in playoffs hahahaha and he complains that he's hurt which is very LeBron and Chris Paul lite. I'm glad kawhi has owned his ass his whole career so far.

Luka represents LeBron and kawhi represents Jordan, that tells you right there what would happen. Kawhi blocked the shit out of luka on a play tonight and came out of no where on him hahahjaja

Luka will never be as good as kawhi, delusional dorks need to shut their mouths now

[ImKobe]

Great call 3ball. Luka is shooting like 40% from the free throw line in playoffs hahahaha and he complains that he's hurt which is very LeBron and Chris Paul lite. I'm glad kawhi has owned his ass his whole career so far.

Luka represents LeBron and kawhi represents Jordan, that tells you right there what would happen. Kawhi blocked the shit out of luka on a play tonight and came out of no where on him hahahjaja

Luka will never be as good as kawhi, delusional dorks need to shut their mouths now

Keep that same energy when the Lakers spank Kawhit's ass in the WCF.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Keep that same energy when the Lakers spank Kawhit's ass in the WCF.

That's like comparing wizards Jordan to Lakers shaq.


Kawhi per 100 possessions:

146 offensive rating
114 defensive rating

+32

Now let's look at LeBron:

106 offensive rating
105 defensive rating

+1

You really think I'm worried about a washed up bum like that? Hahahaha

LeBron win share per 48: 10%

Kawhi win share per 48: 36%

LeBron PER: 18.7

Kawhi PER: 35.8

Do you see the difference now? That's like wizards Jordan talking shit to Shaq in 2002.

The goat isn't scared of a washed up bum like that, you can't even beat suns at home when Booker is shooting terrible hahahaha

[LoneyROY7]

That's like comparing wizards Jordan to Lakers shaq.


Kawhi per 100 possessions:

146 offensive rating
114 defensive rating

+32

Now let's look at LeBron:

106 offensive rating
105 defensive rating

+1

You really think I'm worried about a washed up bum like that? Hahahaha

LeBron win share per 48: 10%

Kawhi win share per 48: 36%

LeBron PER: 18.7

Kawhi PER: 35.8

Do you see the difference now? That's like wizards Jordan talking shit to Shaq in 2002.

The goat isn't scared of a washed up bum like that, you can't even beat suns at home when Booker is shooting terrible hahahaha

Some interesting stats there Klitty.

Did you know that despite Kawhi's play right now, there's actually a player with a higher ORTG, higher win share per 48, and higher BPM currently? You should look him up. :pimp:

[TheCorporation]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

[SouBeachTalents]

100% guarantee OP has no idea Luka was playing through an injury yesterday, he’s always clueless about these kinds of things (Oubre > Klay for example)

[Phoenix]

Man, Luka is 3 years in, hasn't made it out of the first round yet and OP is already priming the excuses. So after Lebron retires we can look forward to 30,000 posts of pro-MJ/anti- Luka bullshit. Can't wait.

[Phoenix]

Great call 3ball. Luka is shooting like 40% from the free throw line in playoffs hahahaha and he complains that he's hurt which is very LeBron and Chris Paul lite. I'm glad kawhi has owned his ass his whole career so far.

Luka represents LeBron and kawhi represents Jordan, that tells you right there what would happen. Kawhi blocked the shit out of luka on a play tonight and came out of no where on him hahahjaja

Luka will never be as good as kawhi, delusional dorks need to shut their mouths now

Luka is 3 years into his career klitty. He shouldn't even be at the point of being able to look peak Kawhi dead in the eye in a playoff situation. If they switched teams the Mavs would get swept.

[And1AllDay]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

[3ball]

3ball right again...

The Clippers' ball movement, high team assists and high number of spot-ups is wearing Dallas down here in Game 7.

Dallas will shoot like trash for the remainder of the game because the Clippers' effective offense (ball movement) has worn them down..

And this goes back to Luka and Lebron's ball-dominance - their ball-dominance doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams like the ball movement they face on the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to "go off" offensively..

Clippers are going off now

[tpols]

The Mavericks totally suck outside Luka. Hardaway and Kleber got hot for a couple games. Paul George and Rondo are far better than Lukas 2nd and 3rd options.

[3ball]

The Mavericks totally suck outside Luka. Hardaway and Kleber got hot for a couple games. Paul George and Rondo are far better than Lukas 2nd and 3rd options.


Agreed

Luka is a goat talent by virtue of being a tall shooter-passer (or tall scorer-passer) - there actually are quite few of these, aka Bird, Jokic and that's about it off the top of my head

[Shooter]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.

[3ball]

Just like MJ ball-dominance was solved up until Phil Jackson & Pippen came along.


Jordan ball-hogged his way to 6 titles as scoring champ - so he never changed, and simply proved that his style was goat (6/6)

Otoh, Lebron never proved anything with 4/10 except that his style was goat inferior (ball-dominance, non-organic collaborations of all-star teams)

Ultimately, Jordan won a completely unprecedented and goat WAY (scoring champ carry-jobs)

[Shooter]

Jordan's ball-hogged his way to 6 titles as scoring champ - so he never changed, and simply proved that his style was goat (6/6)

Otoh, Lebron never proved anything with 4/10 except that his style was goat inferior (ball-dominance, non-organic collaborations of all-star teams)

Jordan did change, quite a lot in fact. Let me remind you buddy

https://i.postimg.cc/dVQ29yyW/23hasAsaviorPIP.jpg

[3ball]

Jordan did change, quite a lot in fact. Let me remind you buddy





Jordan was a scoring champ regardless of Pippen or Phil's presence, and he scored more than ever in the 91-93' Finals (36/7/8)

So he didn't tone anything down because his production and burden was higher during the championship years and he remained scoring champ.

Ultimately, Jordan won a completely unprecedented and goat WAY (scoring champ carry-jobs)