Can we please stop acting like Chris Bosh was some kinda god damn superstar???

[FultzNationRISE]

Because he wasn't. And I am so SICK of this bullshit revisionist history.

Hey guys, do these names ring a bell to you?

Boozer, Gasol, Stoudamire, Brand, Randolph, Horford, Love... oh, and Duncan, Dirk, KG.

Two thirds of the friggin league had a PF that could give you 20 and 10. IT WAS NOT A BIG DEAL. It did not make you a superstar.

Bosh never won a first round series in Toronto. HE NEVER WON A FIRST ROUND SERIES.

So please, let's not act like the guy was a difference maker. I'd take Sam Cassell and Robert Horry over this dude, and I'm dead serious about that. Oh wait, Hakeem actually had those guys. And people act like the Rockets weren't stacked??

They were way more stacked than Lebron's Heat.

Period, end of story, DEAL WITH IT.

[Pip' N Rodman]

Hey!

[LAmbruh]

remember when they tried to act like Kevin Love was a superstar


lil nikka in his prime can't even make an all-star team


:yaohappy:

[FultzNationRISE]

remember when they tried to act like Kevin Love was a superstar


lil nikka in his prime can't even make an all-star team


:yaohappy:


Exactly.

If you played PF on a shit team from 05-10, the team pretty much just gave you the ball and let you get numbers. It didn't mean anything. Tons of players put up "fabulous stats" on garbage dump teams. It doesn't mean you're a difference maker on a team that plays winning basketball.

Lebron makes the difference. Not Christina Bosh.

[ImKobe]

Exactly.

If you played PF on a shit team from 05-10, the team pretty much just gave you the ball and let you get numbers. It didn't mean anything. Tons of players put up "fabulous stats" on garbage dump teams. It doesn't mean you're a difference maker on a team that plays winning basketball.

Lebron makes the difference. Not Christina Bosh.

Bosh played great defense and saved Lebron's legacy in 2013, put some respek on his name.

[Gohan]

Wish he could’ve played with iverson they would compete

[LoneyROY7]

The mid 2000s 20/10 PF was definitely overrated in terms of overall impact. A lot of post-ups and mid-range jumpers at semi-decent efficiency.

Good on paper, but never much as far as taking teams to another level. There was obviously a select few you mentioned, who were clearly on a different level than the rest and impacted their teams as such...but Bosh fell into the tier right below.

[FultzNationRISE]

The mid 2000s 20/10 PF was definitely overrated in terms of overall impact. A lot of post-ups and mid-range jumpers at semi-decent efficiency.

Good on paper, but never much as far as taking teams to another level. There was obviously a select few you mentioned, who were clearly on a different level than the rest and impacted their teams as such...but Bosh fell into the tier right below.

Yup. Al Jefferson is another one I forgot to list.

Every PF in the league was a "20 and 10 all star" back then. It meant NOTHING.

[999Guy]

Love is different from most of that list.

Not a jack of all trades guy at all in his athletic prime before he started ****ing with his weight.

Elite: Post-up play, offensive rebounding, defensive rebounding, spot-up shooting, outlet passes.

14 Love was at least as good as current Luka.

Rest I agree with.

Peak Draymond > All

[LoneyROY7]

Love is different from most of that list.

Not a jack of all trades guy at all in his athletic prime before he started ****ing with his weight.

Elite: Post-up play, offensive rebounding, defensive rebounding, spot-up shooting, outlet passes.

14 Love was at least as good as current Luka.

Gasol also had his stand out abilities. Rest I agree with.

Peak Draymond > All

:facepalm :facepalm

Big yikes, champ. Big yikes.

[999Guy]

:facepalm :facepalm

Big yikes, champ. Big yikes.

What about the stats, which favor Love, are misrepresenting anything at all?

Love led a top offense with with Rubio, the great Corey Brewer and Pekovic as spacing.

He was the spacing, and the secondary playmaking, scoring, rebounding.
He was a dominant guy.

He was a better defender than Luka, who is just low effort trash most of the time. Love guarded his position well, could always position well which is WHY he was an all-time rebounder his first few years in the league, and was simply exploitable on defense. But by freaks. Who isn’t exploitable?

Anyway it’s not like you’ll carry anything I said on. Which is really the “yikes”.

[AirBonner]

What about the stats, which favor Love, are misrepresenting anything at all?

Love led a top offense with with Rubio, the great Corey Brewer and Pekovic as spacing.

He was the spacing, and the secondary playmaking, scoring, rebounding.
He was a dominant guy.

He was a better defender than Luka, who is just low effort trash most of the time. Love guarded his position well, could always position well which is WHY he was an all-time rebounder his first few years in the league, and was simply exploitable on defense. But by freaks. Who isn’t exploitable?

Anyway it’s not like you’ll carry anything I said on. Which is really the “yikes”.

Love scored like 10ppg in the finals. And was pretty much nonexistent in the playoffs. Love was trash watch the games.

[999Guy]

Love scored like 10ppg in the finals. And was pretty much nonexistent in the playoffs. Love was trash watch the games.

Watch the games.

Ask yourself this, stupid, why did Love’s production and impact drop the **** off to hell from 2014?

And I’m not even talking the LeBron ball thing.

You think he was physically the same guy? You don’t even realize he lost a ton of weight and yet you think you saw something in the games I didn’t?


You’re talking about shitty finals series for an injury prone big man in his 30’s versus a peak year in his mid 20’s. Just shut up stupid.

How many Minnesota Love games did you watch?

[AirBonner]

Everyone puts up stats on the wolves. You are a trash poster and know it.

[999Guy]

Everyone puts up stats on the wolves. You are a trash poster and know it.

Everybody puts up stats on the Wolves. That’s your argument?

You’d rather go deeper into stupid than to take a small step into wrong and and then reverse.

I mean we both know you got no ****ing business pretending to know more than me abi it anything I, keyword I talk about. You might know something about potato chip factories or some shit that I don’t. But shutup, again. And stop flailing. I’d admit to being wrong. But you can’t make me think that for a second, and for a reason, dummy.

[SouBeachTalents]

I feel like people frequently overuse the term superstar and apply it to guys who don't deserve it. In any given season I'd say there's usually 5-10 superstars in the league, and no, Bosh was not one of them

[Axe]

Perhaps we are bound for another 'retirement' thread from op. We'll be waiting for that one.

[Bankaii]

Bosh played great defense and saved Lebron's legacy in 2013, put some respek on his name.
He played good PnR defense.
His man defense was terrible and he got baptized by 36 yo Duncan.
He also tried his absolute hardest to lose game 7.


I feel like people frequently overuse the term superstar and apply it to guys who don't deserve it. In any given season I'd say there's usually 5-10 superstars in the league, and no, Bosh was not one of them
I guess it is all personal preference but even 10 is way too many to me. I’d say 5 at most, unless it’s a really stacked league.

[SouBeachTalents]

He played good PnR defense.
His man defense was terrible and he got baptized by 36 yo Duncan.
He also tried his absolute hardest to lose game 7.


I guess it is all personal preference but even 10 is way too many to me. I’d say 5 at most, unless it’s a really stacked league.
Out of curiosity, who would you consider a superstar today?

[tpols]

Bosh was named to ALL NBA team over Gasol in the mid 2000s. He had the number 4 PER in the league in 2010. What youre putting up is the definition of revisionist history. At the time the sentiment was that he was a star player. Nobody would ve gone crazy if just Bosh and LeBron teamed up... He already played with All Star big men like Big Z, Jamison, and Boozer. It was that Bosh was being added to an already top 3 players in the league in Wade and LeBron. That would be like if Hakeem and MJ teamed up in the 90s and had Shawn Kemp as their 3rd option.

[Axe]

Bosh was named to ALL NBA team over Gasol in the mid 2000s. He had the number 4 PER in the league in 2010. What youre putting up is the definition of revisionist history. At the time the sentiment was that he was a star player. Nobody would ve gone crazy if just Bosh and LeBron teamed up... He already played with All Star big men like Big Z, Jamison, and Boozer. It was that Bosh was being added to an already top 3 players in the league in Wade and LeBron. That would be like if Hakeem and MJ teamed up in the 90s and had Shawn Kemp as their 3rd option.
Unfortunately, a star or superstar needs more help in a tough, competitive era unlike if they played in a soft, light era. A good example of this would be your precious dingo not being able to win even just a single game in the losers bracket without his fellow splash bro.

[ralph_i_el]

Meltdown

[SouBeachTalents]

Bosh was named to ALL NBA team over Gasol in the mid 2000s. He had the number 4 PER in the league in 2010. What youre putting up is the definition of revisionist history. At the time the sentiment was that he was a star player. Nobody would ve gone crazy if just Bosh and LeBron teamed up... He already played with All Star big men like Big Z, Jamison, and Boozer. It was that Bosh was being added to an already top 3 players in the league in Wade and LeBron. That would be like if Hakeem and MJ teamed up in the 90s and had Shawn Kemp as their 3rd option.
I've seen you make the All-NBA argument numerous times, but deep down even you must feel how disingenuous it is. If you want to be fair and discount his last 2 health affected seasons, Bosh made the All-NBA Team once in 11 seasons. Even if you want to focus strictly on his Toronto days, he failed to make it his final 3 seasons with the Raps. You're insistence on lording a 1-0 All-NBA nod advantage is frankly weird, and it makes for an extremely weak argument considering Gasol ended up with a 4-1 advantage over Bosh in that category :lol

And let's see you stay consistent on the PER argument when it has LeBron being better than Kobe since his sophomore year, and not only has Gasol above Kobe in 2010, but has him outside the top 10 altogether for that year

[theman93]

How are you defining super star? Bosh was recognized as one of the best PF's in the league, was a walking double-double, was a 4 time all-star, and was entering his prime when he joined Miami.

[AirBonner]

How are you defining super star? Bosh was recognized as one of the best PF's in the league, was a walking double-double, was a 4 time all-star, and was entering his prime when he joined Miami.

How many times did Bosh carry the Raptors to the playoffs?

[tpols]

I've seen you make the All-NBA argument numerous times, but deep down even you must feel how disingenuous it is. If you want to be fair and discount his last 2 health affected seasons, Bosh made the All-NBA Team once in 11 seasons. Even if you want to focus strictly on his Toronto days, he failed to make it his final 3 seasons with the Raps. You're insistence on lording a 1-0 All-NBA nod advantage is frankly weird, and it makes for an extremely weak argument considering Gasol ended up with a 4-1 advantage over Bosh in that category :lol

And let's see you stay consistent on the PER argument when it has LeBron being better than Kobe since his sophomore year, and not only has Gasol above Kobe in 2010, but has him outside the top 10 altogether for that year

How is it disingenuous?

Its just historical fact that Raptors Bosh was selected over Grizzlies Pau.

Whats disingenuous is you saying that didn't happen ie revisionist history.

Pau was utilized to his max ability with the Lakers while Boshs role was sent to China and outsourced on the Heat. Pau wouldn't have been putting up all star production if you took his post role away and had him spotting up for 3s.

[Bankaii]

Out of curiosity, who would you consider a superstar today?
I think Lebron (healthy), KD, Kawhi, and Steph are clear cut.
Harden, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, AD, Luka and Dame are all on that level, they just need “longevity”.
I’m not a fan of calling someone a superstar based off of one season, but if someone called anyone from that second tier a superstar, I wouldn’t argue it.

[Shooter]

Love scored like 10ppg in the finals. And was pretty much nonexistent in the playoffs. Love was trash watch the games.

This

New fans these days :facepalm

[theman93]

How many times did Bosh carry the Raptors to the playoffs?

Twice.

Tracy McGrady couldn't make it out of the 1st round and he was considered a super star. What's your point? You have none.

[AirBonner]

Combined, does anyone know how many times Love and Bosh carried their teams to the playoffs?

[Bankaii]

How is it disingenuous?

Its just historical fact that Raptors Bosh was selected over Grizzlies Pau.

Whats disingenuous is you saying that didn't happen ie revisionist history.

Pau was utilized to his max ability with the Lakers while Boshs role was sent to China and outsourced on the Heat. Pau wouldn't have been putting up all star production if you took his post role away and had him spotting up for 3s.
Their stats were practically identical. The only difference is that Bosh played 10 more games.

You’re extremely disingenuous. It’s funny how yall are always talking about the “D-league East” and “stacked West”. Why don’t you provide that same context when comparing Gasol making the playoffs in the mighty west while Bosh was missing the playoffs in the weakest conference of all time?

[Bronbron23]

Because he wasn't. And I am so SICK of this bullshit revisionist history.

Hey guys, do these names ring a bell to you?

Boozer, Gasol, Stoudamire, Brand, Randolph, Horford, Love... oh, and Duncan, Dirk, KG.

Two thirds of the friggin league had a PF that could give you 20 and 10. IT WAS NOT A BIG DEAL. It did not make you a superstar.

Bosh never won a first round series in Toronto. HE NEVER WON A FIRST ROUND SERIES.

So please, let's not act like the guy was a difference maker. I'd take Sam Cassell and Robert Horry over this dude, and I'm dead serious about that. Oh wait, Hakeem actually had those guys. And people act like the Rockets weren't stacked??

They were way more stacked than Lebron's Heat.

Period, end of story, DEAL WITH IT.

Damn bruh im changing your name to frostyfultz cause your fakkit ass always melting down:facepalm

[scuzzy]

Brandon Ingram affect


On paper looks decent, but vividly obvious he's a shitty player getting 1st option looks


Same as Bosh/Love

[mehyaM24]

bosh was a really good player in 2010. was top 5 in player efficiency & equaled pau gasol in value over replacement at 4. bosh was also second, behind duncan, in real plus minus. so his impact was definitely high. its no coincidence wade & lebron wanted to teamup with him.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2010/position/6

[dankok8]

Bosh is top 100 all-time in stats like points and rebounds despite retiring at age 31. He wasn't a bonafide superstar but he was a top 20 player in the league for like 10 straight years. Despite playing on teams ranging from bad to decent, Bosh in his last 5 years in Toronto shot well above league average too so it's not like he was inefficient.

[Bankaii]

bosh was a really good player in 2010. was top 5 in player efficiency & equaled pau gasol in value over replacement at 4. bosh was also second, behind duncan, in real plus minus. so his impact was definitely high. its no coincidence wade & lebron wanted to teamup with him.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2010/position/6
It’s hard to believe a guy was that impactful when he couldn’t even make the playoffs in the East.
Stephen Jackson could do it, why couldn’t Mr. Top 5 in PER do it?

[mehyaM24]

It’s hard to believe a guy was that impactful when he couldn’t even make the playoffs in the East.
Stephen Jackson could do it, why couldn’t Mr. Top 5 in PER do it?

the fact toronto won 40 games that year is a miracle. bosh's second best player was bargnani who was soft as shit.

[Hey Yo]

Their stats were practically identical. The only difference is that Bosh played 10 more games.

You’re extremely disingenuous. It’s funny how yall are always talking about the “D-league East” and “stacked West”. Why don’t you provide that same context when comparing Gasol making the playoffs in the mighty west while Bosh was missing the playoffs in the weakest conference of all time?
Got em

[scuzzy]

I thought anyone could make the Finals out East


Now making the playoffs twice in the East is a major accomplishment

[Bronbron23]

Got em

Cool. The east sucked, bosh was overrated and so are brons finals appearances. Good chat glad we could agree:rockon:

[mehyaM24]

Cool. The east sucked, bosh was overrated and so are brons finals appearances. Good chat glad we could agree:rockon:

ya lol. that's not the argument they wanna be making.

[Bronbron23]

ya lol. that's not the argument they wanna be making.

Yeah man. Buddy is so dumb he just defeated himself in an argument:oldlol:

[LAmbruh]

Another 4-5 star thread


Just goes to show the community consensus agrees with OP

[PeroAntic]

If op and all his crony Bran stans and their alts are right it seems Bran was pretty stupid then to desperately seek collusions with both Bosh and Love, even trading the #1 pick at Cleveland for the latter. He could have easily won without them. And yet he still somehow failed to win most of the time even with them. Its probably their fault as always:lol

[Bankaii]

Yeah man. Buddy is so dumb he just defeated himself in an argument:oldlol:
I don’t think anyone would argue that some of Lebron’s Finals appearances are nothing significant (neither were MJs).
But y’all can’t say the East was dogshit and then turn around and say Bosh was some great player because of all star appearances in that same conference.

But you’re not exactly a logical poster when it comes to lebron.

[Bronbron23]

I don’t think anyone would argue that some of Lebron’s Finals appearances are nothing significant (neither were MJs).
But y’all can’t say the East was dogshit and then turn around and say Bosh was some great player because of all star appearances in that same conference.

But you’re not exactly a logical poster when it comes to lebron.

I never said bosh was a great player dummy. He was a pretty good one though and certainly he was a great 3rd option. All i did was agree with one of these dumbass bron stans.

[ArbitraryWater]

Love is different from most of that list.

Not a jack of all trades guy at all in his athletic prime before he started ****ing with his weight.

Elite: Post-up play, offensive rebounding, defensive rebounding, spot-up shooting, outlet passes.

14 Love was at least as good as current Luka.

Rest I agree with.

Peak Draymond > All


What the?

[RogueBorg]

Because he wasn't. And I am so SICK of this bullshit revisionist history.

Hey guys, do these names ring a bell to you?

Boozer, Gasol, Stoudamire, Brand, Randolph, Horford, Love... oh, and Duncan, Dirk, KG.

Two thirds of the friggin league had a PF that could give you 20 and 10. IT WAS NOT A BIG DEAL. It did not make you a superstar.

Bosh never won a first round series in Toronto. HE NEVER WON A FIRST ROUND SERIES.

So please, let's not act like the guy was a difference maker. I'd take Sam Cassell and Robert Horry over this dude, and I'm dead serious about that. Oh wait, Hakeem actually had those guys. And people act like the Rockets weren't stacked??

They were way more stacked than Lebron's Heat.

Period, end of story, DEAL WITH IT.

Are we talking about the Hall of Fame, 11-time All-Star Chris Bosh (Scottie Pippen is 7x All-Star) who also is a two-time NBA Champion who would probably have 4 rings if not playing with that loser LeBron? Are we talking about the same Chris Bosh who has a lifetime PER of 20.6 compared to Pippen's 18.6? Are we talking about the same trash Chris Bosh that has 3 seasons of least tied or higher PER than Scottie Pippen's best season? Who has revisionist history?

[SouBeachTalents]

Are we talking about the Hall of Fame, 11-time All-Star Chris Bosh (Scottie Pippen is 7x All-Star) who also is a two-time NBA Champion who would probably have 4 rings if not playing with that loser LeBron? Are we talking about the same Chris Bosh who has a lifetime PER of 20.6 compared to Pippen's 18.6? Are we talking about the same trash Chris Bosh that has 3 seasons of least tied or higher PER than Scottie Pippen's best season? Who has revisionist history?
The same guy who didn't even win 4 playoff games in his career without LeBron? Ok :lol I wonder why you decided to leave out All-NBA & All-Defensive selections when comparing Bosh to Pippen. And since PER is so critical, guess that makes LeBron at worst the 2nd greatest player of all time

[RogueBorg]

The same guy who didn't even win 4 playoff games in his career without LeBron? Ok :lol I wonder why you decided to leave out All-NBA & All-Defensive selections when comparing Bosh to Pippen. And since PER is so critical, guess that makes LeBron at worst the 2nd greatest player of all time

Pippen's a better defender, but the facts remain Bosh is an 11-time All-Star Hall of Famer with a higher PER than Pippen. Not to mention, LeBron didn't win any rings before teaming up with Bosh and Wade. Think about that for a moment, everyone rides Jordan for needing Pippen to win, but LeBron needed two players in Bosh and Wade to win and they still lost half of all the NBA Finals they played in together. LeBron probably needed three maybe 4 other all-stars in 2012 to sweep the 4 NBA Finals they played in together.

[AirBonner]

Pippen, Rodman, grant. MJ only needed the two goat defensive players on the same team to win

[Sportal]

All I have taken out of this thread, is that someone said that Love was just as good as Doncic is currently... W t f.

[theman93]

Pippen, Rodman, grant. MJ only needed the two goat defensive players on the same team to win

Incorrect. Jordan already won two rings before Grant was an All-NBA Defender...and even then he was only Second Team All-Defense...so hardly a "goat defensive player". Good try though