I’m guessing you have a problem with 2001, 2002, and...2011?

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2106052330070323.jpeg

[Gohan]

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2106052330070323.jpeg

2005 iverson was the best sg in the league even if he played pg and i have no problem with 2001 0r 2002

[Charlie Sheen]

No disrespect to Rock, but seeing him on this list and not Wade... that just feels like a foul way to look at history man.

[1987_Lakers]

I wouldn't mind putting Iverson > Kobe in 2005, 2005 was Kobe's worst year of his prime, but yes, I disagree with 2001 & 2002. I'm neutral with 2011, 2009-2011 Kobe & Wade were basically on the same level.

I also don't disagree with Richmond for '94 & '95, but people will make a case for Reggie Miller.

[L.Kizzle]

I wouldn't mind putting Iverson > Kobe in 2005, 2005 was Kobe's worst year of his prime, but yes, I disagree with 2001 & 2002. I'm neutral with 2011, 2009-2011 Kobe & Wade were basically on the same level.

I also don't disagree with Richmond for '94 & '95, but people will make a case for Reggie Miller.
Sprewell was All-NBA 1st Team in 94 and Drexler a champion in 95 along with All NBA 3rd team.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

94 and 95 Richmond was 1A/B with Reggie.

Rock played better defense and could post you up. Miller was a killer in the playoffs though. Yeah Reggie had more help, well, a lot more, but the game is results oriented.

I'd give Bean 2001 and 2002. Tmac or AI in 2005. And Wade in 2011/2012.

[tpols]

Reggie should have all of Iversons seasons and wade should have kobes in 2011. 1995 is Clydes too.

[fsvr54]

Wade should have 09 for sure and Kobe should have 01

[Gohan]

Reggie should have all of Iversons seasons and wade should have kobes in 2011. 1995 is Clydes too.

No just no

[fsvr54]

You could also make a case for Tmac in 02

[tpols]

No just no

Reggie shiit on Iverson every year in the playoffs. Its a credit to the media and its brainwashing power Iverson would be ranked above him. I'm not at all surprised though given Whats gone on the past year.

[Gohan]

Reggie shiit on Iverson every year in the playoffs. Its a credit to the media and its brainwashing power Iverson would be ranked above him. I'm not at all surprised though given Whats gone on the past year.

Reggie is a product of his team

[HylianNightmare]

Not enough tmac or wade

[FKAri]

Wade 09

[Dr Hawk]

Kobe was better than Iverson in 2001 and 2002.

Wade was better than Kobe in 2011.

I didn't check the rest of the seasons.

[Gohan]

Kobe was playing with shaq in 01 he was not better give iverson shaq

[Dr Hawk]

Kobe was playing with shaq in 01 he was not better give iverson shaq

Shaq would grab like 7 offensive rebounds more per game.

[Gohan]

Shaq would grab like 7 offensive rebounds more per game.
Doubt it iversons fg percentage would increase higher than Kobe’s

[And1AllDay]

2001 is kobe end of discussion

[Gohan]

2001 is kobe end of discussion

I’ll take iverson even though Kobe’s my guy

[Axe]

2005 iverson was the best sg in the league even if he played pg and i have no problem with 2001 0r 2002
For an undersized sg i think so.

[Reggie43]

Drexler?

[kenneth_griffin]

2001 and 2002 kobe rivaled prime shaq as arguably the best player on the Lakers. Iverson has never been close to prime shaq lol

[kenneth_griffin]

I’ll take iverson even though Kobe’s my guy


2001 kobe outperformed peak shaq over 3 rounds of the playoffs

would Iverson? lol

[And1AllDay]

2001 kobe outperformed peak shaq over 3 rounds of the playoffs

would Iverson? lol

fuxx no :oldlol:


kobe led the lakers in playoff win shares in 2001 that was his goat run

bean for prez :rockon:

[SouBeachTalents]

'01 was Kobe
'02 & '03 was either Kobe or McGrady
'06 & '09 was either Kobe or Wade
'11 was Wade

[Kblaze8855]

Reggie should have all of Iversons seasons and wade should have kobes in 2011. 1995 is Clydes too.

If AI didn’t get any of his years the obvious other options are Kobe and Tmac. Reggie was never better at basketball than even 2000 Kobe considering that Kobe was playing some of his best defense then while also being a better ball handler and passer.

Reggie isn’t even in that conversation. Hell by 01 he was his teams second option and won like 40 games. Not one person anywhere in the game would have put him up there with AI, Kobe, and Tmac in 01 and 02.

At no point was Reggie the best 2 on the nba. Closest you get is 94 and 95 long as you’re willing to disregard that basketball is played even when your team doesn’t have the ball.

Even if you can talk yourself into him being better than AI because of a series(which nobody at the time believed) he still wasn’t Kobe. Kobe was a better total basketball player than Reggie ever was by 2000.

[Reggie43]

Reggie definitely has a case for 94 and 95 considering he made the Conference Finals both years and beat Shaq/Penny and Ewing/Starks/Oakley along the way.

Unless you are willing to disregard the leadership, mental toughness and intangibles plus the playoff performances/resume and pick Sprewell lol.

[Reggie43]

Miller in 2000 is a stretch but he did lead his team to the Finals and outplayed in the playoffs the presumed best sg at the time (Iverson) beating him 4-2 while averaging around 26pts 52%fg and 47%3pts

[Smoke117]

Wade was better than Kobe 2009-2011 for sure. You could say 2005 too for that matter. Kobe had an down injury riddled season. He was also atrocious defensively that season. Wade’s 2010 season also seems to get underrated. Yeah he wasn’t putting up the 30 piece the previous season, but he was still dominant with huge advanced numbers. It’s a pity those two seasons of his peak were wasted on such trash teams. He destroyed the Celtics in that 2010 first round series, but had no help. A team it should be mentioned that Kobe struggled against.

[Smoke117]

Reggie definitely has a case for 94 and 95 considering he made the Conference Finals both years and beat Shaq/Penny and Ewing/Starks/Oakley along the way.

Unless you are willing to disregard the leadership, mental toughness and intangibles plus the playoff performances/resume and pick Sprewell lol.

No offense, but that just shows how weak the position was those seasons that Miller could be argued as best SG in the league.

[kenneth_griffin]

the best shooting guard in 1994 was Reggie Miller
the best shooting guard in 1995 was Clyde Drexler

[Reggie43]

No offense, but that just shows how weak the position was those seasons that Miller could be argued as best SG in the league.

None taken and you are obviously right.

[bladefd]

'01 was Kobe
'02 & '03 was either Kobe or McGrady
'06 & '09 was either Kobe or Wade
'11 was Wade

I agree. 00-01 season is Kobe.
01-02 clearly Kobe.
02-03 season should be McGrady imo.
Kobe should have 05-06 even though Wade won the chip. Kobe was almost godlike that year.
08-09 is a tough call. I would say give it to Wade.
2010-11 is probably Wade too as Kobe was clearly going downhill.

[kenneth_griffin]

I agree. 00-01 season is Kobe.
01-02 clearly Kobe.
02-03 season should be McGrady imo.
Kobe should have 05-06 even though Wade won the chip. Kobe was almost godlike that year.
08-09 is a tough call. I would say give it to Wade.
2010-11 is probably Wade too as Kobe was clearly going downhill.


03 tmac was close to kobe.. but that was arguably kobes best version. before the shoulder and knee injury he was at his peak skill and athletic wise. he was playing like 06 kobe for a stretch.and of not for a missed Horry three he probly 4 peats as finals mvp


https://youtu.be/wF1uYujpHB0

[Kblaze8855]

Reggie definitely has a case for 94 and 95 considering he made the Conference Finals both years and beat Shaq/Penny and Ewing/Starks/Oakley along the way.

Unless you are willing to disregard the leadership, mental toughness and intangibles plus the playoff performances/resume and pick Sprewell lol.


Mitch Richmond having Wayman Tisdale and Lionel Simmons and a coach who was never heard from again does not make Reggie better at basketball. And I’m gonna go on and credit the not one...not two...but 3 low end all star bigs on the Pacers for the struggles of opposing bigs those years. Reggie had zero to do with Shaq having like 10 point games or Ewing having what I’m sure is the worst game in HOF big history when he had 1 point on I believe 0-10 shooting. Smits locked Ewing’s ass at times. Not all the time but Smits vs whoever was a much closer matchup than anyone now realizes.

You remember those teams like I do. You know the unsung heroes were always that rotation of low minutes bruising bigs and the best of them was probably the only one who wasn’t ever an all star in Derek Mckey.

The Pacers ensemble kicking ass inside is what limited other bigs in a time traditionally dominated by them.

Fans today will never agree but we both know if you asked the coach of the team he’d tell you I’m absolutely right about how they won. Hell games were advertised as “Larry Brown and his Indiana Pacers vs _____” until the spike Lee drama.

Larry was one of the last coaches who got more credit than the players. At least on the Pacers he did.

[kenneth_griffin]

Mitch Richmond having Wayman Tisdale and Lionel Simmons and a coach who was never heard from again does not make Reggie better at basketball. And I’m gonna go on and credit the not one...not two...but 3 low end all star bigs on the Pacers for the struggles of opposing bigs those years. Reggie had zero to do with Shaq having like 10 point games or Ewing having what I’m sure is the worse game in HOF big history when he had 1 point on I believe 0-10 shooting.

You remember those teams like I do. You know the unsung heroes were always that rotation of low minutes bruising bigs and the best of them was probably the only one who wasn’t ever an all star in Derek Mckey.

The Pacers ensemble kicking ass inside is what limited other bigs in a time traditionally dominated by them.

Fans today will never agree but we both know if you asked the coach of the team he’d tell you I’m absolutely right about how they won. Hell games were advertised as “Larry Brown and his Indiana Pacers vs _____” until the spike Lee drama.

Larry was one of the last coaches who got more credit than the players. At least on the Pacers he did.

Reggies stats don't really show his value. he was a proven playoff performer. mitch wasn't. for all we know he was a slightly better shareef abdur rahim

[Reggie43]

Its always about the guy who they presume could perform vs. the guys who actually did it. They are similar level players but thats too big a "what if" for some of these guys especially basing on regular season play not factoring the pressure of the playoffs.

[kenneth_griffin]

my only memories of playoff mitch Richmond is hitting that fall away wide open jumper for his only playoff points seconds before the Lakers won the title

[Kblaze8855]

I’m not judging anyone by their playoff success with olden polynice. I think the top scoring teammate he had his whole Kings run was either Big Nasty or Walt Williams. Much better players than Mitch or Reggie did nothing when they had similar teams. But I’m not sure anyone in history had so little for that long.

Im serious. Give it some thought. Who had a 6-7 year run without a teammate who could score more than like 15-16 points? While also having no noteworthy defenders?

Derek Anderson on the Spurs would have been probably the best second option he ever had unless you wanna count like 50 games of Chris Jackson.

Im not certain Mitch doesn’t have the worst help of any stars prime unless you count 01-03 as Tmacs prime.

They would be the picks in my lifetime. But he didn’t have shit for 3-4 years. He had nothing from like 93-99.

Michael Jordan wouldn’t have won shit on the Kings and I base that on him not winning shit in Chicago when his teams were like the kings. Only Orlando Woolridge and Oakley were both better than anyone on the Kings.

That guy had the definition of role players. Just Mitch and some guys.

The GOATs....with a team like Mitch had?

Were talking like 42-45 wins and a playoff loss. That’s what people with those squads usually peak at.

The times teams like his did anything you can count on one hand and they still had second all stars...or aging stars. Something. Mitch had kids, vets who were never anything, and busts. His whole...entire...prime.

[Reggie43]

Richmond made the 2nd round only twice his whole career even with the ultra talented Run TMC. Reggie never played with anyone as talented as Mullin and Hardaway in his extended prime and Richmond had both of them even if only for a few years.

Miller on his last legs as a 39 year old help lead his injury/suspension ravaged team to the 2nd round of the playoffs and even took two games off the defending champs. In the first round Miller and his team triggered the Celtics so bad that Paul Pierce was faking an injury years before his more famous wheelchair game lol.

Not to mention his 5 Conference Finals stints as his teams best player prior.

The thing is im not saying he was absolutely the best in those years (94/95) only that he certainly has a case given his playoff resume and performances and also considering that the off guard spot wasnt really deep in talent at the time.

[kenneth_griffin]

I’m not judging anyone by their playoff success with olden polynice. I think the top scoring teammate he had his whole Kings run was either Big Nasty or Walt Williams. Much better players than Mitch or Reggie did nothing when they had similar teams. But I’m not sure anyone in history had so little for that long.

Im serious. Give it some thought. Who had a 6-7 year run without a teammate who could score more than like 15-16 points? While also having no noteworthy defenders?

Derek Anderson on the Spurs would have been probably the best second option he ever had unless you wanna count like 50 games of Chris Jackson.

Im not certain Mitch doesn’t have the worst help of any stars prime unless you count 01-03 as Tmacs prime.

They would be the picks in my lifetime. But he didn’t have shit for 3-4 years. He had nothing from like 93-99.

Michael Jordan wouldn’t have won shit on the Kings and I base that on him not winning shit in Chicago when his teams were like the kings. Only Orlando Woolridge and Oakley were both better than anyone on the Kings.

That guy had the definition of role players. Just Mitch and some guys.

The GOATs....with a team like Mitch had?

Were talking like 42-45 wins and a playoff loss. That’s what people with those squads usually peak at.

The times teams like his did anything you can count on one hand and they still had second all stars...or aging stars. Something. Mitch had kids, vets who were never anything, and busts. His whole...entire...prime.


if Reggie Miller had zero expectations to win he probly averages 25 a game.. but he was very unselfish and only took over when it mattered. mitch might have been better but we'll never know. I never judge guys on regular season only. if that were the case then james harden is top 5 all time

mitch is a mystery. can't put him over Reggie.. him not having a great team doesn't discount all the big moments Miller had in the playoffs

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Kobe was the best SG in 2000-2002, Wade was the best SG in 2011 and arguably 2012

Rest of the list is fine

[Phoenix]

I have a hard time not giving Wade a few of those. 09 Wade was godly, as was 2010. That should go either way or at least dude deserves a HM. That graph makes it look like he never existed lol. Kobe wasnt better in 2011 either. 2005 should be Iverson depending on whether we being strict about him being a PG that year. Tmac warrants a HM for 2003. That period for shooting guards was stacked.

[Gohan]

Kobe was the best SG in 2000-2002, Wade was the best SG in 2011 and arguably 2012

Rest of the list is fine

No iverson was far better in 99-2000 season

[Kblaze8855]

Richmond made the 2nd round only twice his whole career even with the ultra talented Run TMC. Reggie never played with anyone as talented as Mullin and Hardaway in his extended prime and Richmond had both of them even if only for a few years.

Miller on his last legs as a 39 year old help lead his injury/suspension ravaged team to the 2nd round of the playoffs and even took two games off the defending champs. In the first round Miller and his team triggered the Celtics so bad that Paul Pierce was faking an injury years before his more famous wheelchair game lol.

Not to mention his 5 Conference Finals stints as his teams best player prior.

The thing is im not saying he was absolutely the best in those years (94/95) only that he certainly has a case given his playoff resume and performances and also considering that the off guard spot wasnt really deep in talent at the time.


When Reggie was the age Mitch was knocking out the 55 win spurs then running into showtime Reggie was getting knocked out in the first round despite rifleman doing 26 on 52/55/81 along with Smits and Detlef....neither of which were the third 20ppg scorer those playoffs.

3 of those guys were better than anyone Mitch had for 6 years in a row. You know what Mitch got from his presumed number two years ho was supposed to take pressure off him on the one game they won in the playoffs his entire kings run?

1 point. Tyus edney had 1 point while Mitch had 37 on 59%. Olden polynice chipped in with 12 as did Billy Owens.

You simply cannot compare the two teammate wise. Reggie had a 19/10/6 player off his bench. Mitch didn’t have a guy like that between the Warriors and playing with Kobe.

Absolutely nobody to ever play this game has a noteworthy legacy of winning if they played for his teams but he still gets shit on for 30 years. And this is why Lebron, KD, Harden and so on are willing to ruin the league.

This shit right here is why there are super teams. Dame and Giannis should stop fighting the good fight right now and both force their way to Miami.

History won’t care Bron, Curry, Kd, and Harden had Wade/AD/Kyrie, Klay/Kd, Westbrook/Kd/Paul/Howard/Kd(again)/Kyrie and they had Cj and Middleton. They’ll get clowned just like Mitch.

Though of course Mitch would have killed for Cj or Middleton in his prime.

Reggie didn’t win anything(not a single series) till he was like 29 and on perfectly balanced well coached teams that won with defense and interior play at least as much as his contribution. Mitch in his prime never had scorers, defenders, or even a competent coach. The comparison success wise is totally useless but here we are....showing exactly why players are stupid to stay on poorly run franchises while the “winners” hop around.

**** the league and **** the fans Luka. Get to Miami with Dame and CJ if the clippers win the series. It’s the only way for some. Fans will simply not apply context. Total lost cause.

[ArbitraryWater]

These graphics are retarded

Its just a simplified list

One player became good, lets nail him down until the next arrived....

Like there could have never been an intertwining.

[Kblaze8855]

https://youtu.be/60JNm44jCDE


Mitch would have killed for this guy who nobody even remembers was on the Pacers. Out there giving Scottie, Jordan, and Grant buckets.

And in that season by the way Detlef...a 6’10” tweener doing 19/10....had more double digit assist games than Reggie had his entire career combined....probably more than Mitch too.

I don’t want to say what Detlef might be today with nothing but shooters around and defense having been largely neutered....but then or now...he would have been a much better second option than Mitch had in his day.

Hes just generally ignored. People don’t much acknowledge him as the Sonics third all nba player either.

Reggie had some guys. Early career mid career and late. He never had the names people fall in love with but he always had guys you could win with.

[Kblaze8855]

These graphics are retarded

Its just a simplified list

One player became good, lets nail him down until the next arrived....

Like there could have never been an intertwining.

Yes. They exist to annoy you. That’s pretty clear.

[GOBB]

If AI didn’t get any of his years the obvious other options are Kobe and Tmac. Reggie was never better at basketball than even 2000 Kobe considering that Kobe was playing some of his best defense then while also being a better ball handler and passer.

Reggie isn’t even in that conversation. Hell by 01 he was his teams second option and won like 40 games. Not one person anywhere in the game would have put him up there with AI, Kobe, and Tmac in 01 and 02.

At no point was Reggie the best 2 on the nba. Closest you get is 94 and 95 long as you’re willing to disregard that basketball is played even when your team doesn’t have the ball.

Even if you can talk yourself into him being better than AI because of a series(which nobody at the time believed) he still wasn’t Kobe. Kobe was a better total basketball player than Reggie ever was by 2000.

Damn tpols just got bodied

[Reggie43]

Reggie in his first deep playoff run averaged 23pts which was supported by Smits 16pts with everyone under double figures. They went to the playoffs with their starting pg injured and was forced to play a career backup guard in Haywoode Workman. Their depth consisted of a rookie Antonio Davis with Vern and Byron just playing enough to rest the starters. Basically an 8 man rotation with the last 2 players getting just under 15 mins a night.

Strength of the team is based on chemistry and defense at the time but here we are being led to believe they were deep and talented filled with low end allstars lol.

They had better talent and depth in other years but not in 1994.

[Kblaze8855]

Yes after years of trying to win with scorers(Reggie, Person, Detlef, and Smits) they brought in Larry Brown who traded Detlef for one of the best defenders in the nba and sat Reggie down and told him he couldn’t win as a traditional on the ball takeover player so they were going with defense, toughness, and teamwork. To his credit he agreed but they flatly set out to reduce his role and both of them have said so(not that it’s news to you....I’m talking more to people who weren’t around).

And that happened when Reggie was 28 or 29. He had scoring teams and great hard working teams that won beating you up...and then balanced teams with multiple good bigs, a great playmaker, and multiple good bench player before getting JO, Artest, and Jackson late in his career.

In all 3 phases he had more reliable people to win with than Tyus edney, Bobby Hurley, and olden polynice and its 100 percent irrefutable.

He simply had better tools to win.

The argument against Mitch is based entirely on a lack of success on teams even guys like Jordan, Wilt, and Kareem proved to have no success with.

It’s simply unfair and as I said....makes me understand this generation being unwilling to leave their career perception up to fans who won’t look past why you failed...and only at the fact you did.

[Gohan]

Saying Miller>> iverson is like saying oubre>>klay

[kenneth_griffin]

Yes after years of trying to win with scorers(Reggie, Person, Detlef, and Smits) they brought in Larry Brown who traded Detlef for one of the best defenders in the nba and sat Reggie down and told him he couldn’t win as a traditional on the ball takeover player so they were going with defense, toughness, and teamwork. To his credit he agreed but they flatly set out to reduce his role and both of them have said so(not that it’s news to you....I’m talking more to people who weren’t around).

And that happened when Reggie was 28 or 29. He had scoring teams and great hard working teams that won beating you up...and then balanced teams with multiple good bigs, a great playmaker, and multiple good bench player before getting JO, Artest, and Jackson late in his career.

In all 3 phases he had more reliable people to win with than Tyus edney, Bobby Hurley, and olden polynice and its 100 percent irrefutable.

He simply had better tools to win.

The argument against Mitch is based entirely on a lack of success on teams even guys like Jordan, Wilt, and Kareem proved to have no success with.

It’s simply unfair and as I said....makes me understand this generation being unwilling to leave their career perception up to fans who won’t look past why you failed...and only at the fact you did.

dude.. if not for a 21 year old saving shaqs ass in game 4 of the 2000 finals hitting long clutch shots multiple times and a following that up with a put back to save the game the Pacers would have eventually gone up 3 games to 2 (since they won game 5) and Reggie wins the title as finals mvp over absolute peak Shaquille O'Neal with Austin chroshere as his sidekick

the guy just ran into the 2 arguable goats in Jordan and kobe and they cost him a chance at top 20 status all time. and its super rare for a shooting guard to lead a team to a title. yet he almost did it against the most dominant player ever

show the dude some respect

[kenneth_griffin]

also.. Reggie took Jordan to a game 7 when no finals team he ever faced could accomplish that

[paksat]

How do I not have a problem with 03? Tmac was by far the best player in the league that year.

[tpols]

If AI didn’t get any of his years the obvious other options are Kobe and Tmac. Reggie was never better at basketball than even 2000 Kobe considering that Kobe was playing some of his best defense then while also being a better ball handler and passer.

Reggie isn’t even in that conversation. Hell by 01 he was his teams second option and won like 40 games. Not one person anywhere in the game would have put him up there with AI, Kobe, and Tmac in 01 and 02.

At no point was Reggie the best 2 on the nba. Closest you get is 94 and 95 long as you’re willing to disregard that basketball is played even when your team doesn’t have the ball.

Even if you can talk yourself into him being better than AI because of a series(which nobody at the time believed) he still wasn’t Kobe. Kobe was a better total basketball player than Reggie ever was by 2000.

'00 playoff Reggie massively outplayed Kobe and Iverson in the playoffs that year. Iverson did 26/4/4 on horrible efficiency. Reggie did 26/3/3 on incredible efficiency. How does one dime and one board more make up for the fact Iverson was wasting like 10+ extra possessions every game and getting totally outshot? Kobe was even worse but he was injured.

It still doesnt make sense how you discount his elite scoring decoy action clutchness and leadership. He produced way better than Jalen Rose and was matching or better than Iverson and Kobe head to head... seen by everybody. You just have delusions about the guys worth. If Reggie could destroy Kobe and Iverson in the playoffs I dont know what kobes defense was worth. He should've shut reggie down, but he didn't. And put up poor offense. So what was his defense worth there?

[Reggie43]

Apparently Miller's playoff resume doesnt count simply because Richmond had less talented teammates lol.

Are we so sure that Richmond would be able to elevate his game to go deep in the playoffs if he had a decent team behind him?

Richmond is as laidback as can be and grew up shying away from the spotlight. This was the guy who would get depressed at the thought of getiing traded in the middle of his prime yet we would assume that he would have enough mental toughness, leadership and other intangibles against the big market teams on the national stage?

Is Richmond going to the Conference Finals 5 times with a decent team behind him. Does he lead them all the way to the Finals? Does he have the same signature games against the Knicks? Could he outclutch the Goat in two straight games in the biggest stage while nursing a severe ankle aprain? Would he be able to inspire his teammates to play better with his tough mentality and extreme confidence?

[Gohan]

'00 playoff Reggie massively outplayed Kobe and Iverson in the playoffs that year. Iverson did 26/4/4 on horrible efficiency. Reggie did 26/3/3 on incredible efficiency. How does one dime and one board more make up for the fact Iverson was wasting like 10+ extra possessions every game and getting totally outshot? Kobe was even worse but he was injured.

It still doesnt make sense how you discount his elite scoring decoy action clutchness and leadership. He produced way better than Jalen Rose and was matching or better than Iverson and Kobe head to head... seen by everybody. You just have delusions about the guys worth. If Reggie could destroy Kobe and Iverson in the playoffs I dont know what kobes defense was worth. He should've shut reggie down, but he didn't. And put up poor offense. So what was his defense worth there?

Reggie should shoot more then

[tpols]

Reggie should shoot more then

He could've shot 7 extra shots per game, airballed all of them, and he still would've outshot AI. :lol

[Gohan]

He could've shot 7 extra shots per game, airballed all of them, and he still would've outshot AI. :lol

Unfortunately we watch the games and not just look at box score. Iverson is much better

[Phoenix]

At no point was Reggie the best 2 on the nba. Closest you get is 94 and 95 long as you’re willing to disregard that basketball is played even when your team doesn’t have the ball.



https://i.gifer.com/InXz.gif

[tpols]

Unfortunately we watch the games and not just look at box score. Iverson is much better

Yea and if you watched the games you'd see the Sixers lost and the Pacers won. With Reggie out playing Iverson by a lot. Sorry bud, but the rate at which you make shots kind of matters... especially when the volumes are identical.

[DoctorP]

Wade in 05, 06 and 09

This makes it look like Kobe had no challengers.

[Phoenix]

Wade in 05, 06 and 09

This makes it look like Kobe had no challengers.

That's what I was saying earlier. Wade was too good for him to not nab a couple of those between 2006 and 2012. It's like he wasn't even in the league.

[DoctorP]

That's what I was saying earlier. Wade was too good for him to not nab a couple of those between 2006 and 2012. It's like he wasn't even in the league.

Prime Wade in 05 and 06 (the young, fast version before he beefed up) played better ball with Shaqthan prime Kobe did the previous season, and destroyed the Pistons that Kobe lost to.

Wade was better those years.

[mehyaM24]

wade was arguably the best sg in 09 & 10. it was close between him and kobe. REAL close. in 11 & 12, i believe wade set himself apart. but in 2013, kobe had a resurgent year and was the better offensive player.


At no point was Reggie the best 2 on the nba. Closest you get is 94 and 95 long as you’re willing to disregard that basketball is played even when your team doesn’t have the ball.

this post reminds me of that pippen superfan. ill ask you the same thing i asked him. were barkley & magic never close to the best? since "basketball is played on both sides" clearly both weren't. and this isn't me putting reggie in the same class with those two. i'm talking principle here.

[DoctorP]

Also, where's Derrick Rose MVP year?

[mehyaM24]

Prime Wade in 05 and 06 (the young, fast version before he beefed up) played better ball with Shaqthan prime Kobe did the previous season, and destroyed the Pistons that Kobe lost to.

Wade was better those years.

that wasn't the same detroit shaq/kobe lost to. different coach & an inferior defense. the 04 pistons averaged a historitcal 94 drtg. the 06 version maxed out at 103 - better than most teams today, but nowhere close to 04.

[DoctorP]

that wasn't the same detroit shaq/kobe lost to. different coach & an inferior defense. the 04 pistons averaged a historitcal 94 drtg. the 06 version maxed out at 103 - better than most teams today, but nowhere close to 04.

what about 05? Wade destroyed them before getting injured. I saw it w my own eyes. Better than Kobe. Shaq was shocked.

[mehyaM24]

what about 05? Wade destroyed them before getting injured. I saw it w my own eyes. Better than Kobe. Shaq was shocked.

he did but they still weren't the same defensively. detroit peaked at 101 that year. with the playoffs included though, 05 wade>kobe sounds legit.

[Gohan]

what about 05? Wade destroyed them before getting injured. I saw it w my own eyes. Better than Kobe. Shaq was shocked.

I’ll take 05 iverson over wade

[Kblaze8855]

Apparently Miller's playoff resume doesnt count simply because Richmond had less talented teammates lol.

Actually Miller’s playoff resume doesn’t matter to me because I don’t accept “But he wins!” from people who never won anything. I care how many ecf Reggie made as much as I care that Tatum had made 2 at 21 when Reggie didn’t win a playoff series till he was like 29. Totally irrelevant data in a comparison between the two or anyone else. Winning is winning. Winning isn’t losing at a different time. He won one big series in his life and he led the Pacers in scoring in exactly one win that series. They won games he was third or fourth scorer in that one series he won worth talking about.

Not that if he dropped 40 a game it would actually make him better than any number of people. This team accomplishments for personal glory shit is out of hand even when the accomplishment is a ring or two. But we making a big deal of winning series that ultimately didn’t even matter? And ignoring the differences in the two teams?

This really is just stupid. Jordan with Polynice and Bobby Hurley would have won like Nique and actually have people talking like he was just a loser. He was doing just that with better teams than Mitch had...but here we are comparing success anyway. And not over rings. Over series wins before losing.

Never in your life have you heard “____ won 4 second rounds in 16 years” because nobody gives an air fried ****. I don’t even know how many times anyone won a second round and I know more random nba related facts than you could believe. It’s never come up in any argument about anyone but Reggie because he’s the only player in all history who has people tying his winning to how many conference finals he lost in.

Well let me modify that. Stupid people talked about Paul needing to make a wcf....then he did....and nobody cared anyway because it wasn’t a noteworthy standard.

What did Karl Malone make? 7 wcf or so? Am I supposed to be of the opinion that he’s some
playoff monster who always came through when it counted most?

Karl won more than Reggie and while I’d say he was better....that certainly isn’t why because if I were assigning “winner” traits I’d give more of them to Reggie. Who won what might matter in cases....with a massive difference in teams AND when the winning is actually reworded losing?

Nah.

That can get right the **** out of my evaluation.

[Kblaze8855]

'00 playoff Reggie massively outplayed Kobe and Iverson in the playoffs that year. Iverson did 26/4/4 on horrible efficiency. Reggie did 26/3/3 on incredible efficiency. How does one dime and one board more make up for the fact Iverson was wasting like 10+ extra possessions every game and getting totally outshot? Kobe was even worse but he was injured.

It still doesnt make sense how you discount his elite scoring decoy action clutchness and leadership. He produced way better than Jalen Rose and was matching or better than Iverson and Kobe head to head... seen by everybody. You just have delusions about the guys worth. If Reggie could destroy Kobe and Iverson in the playoffs I dont know what kobes defense was worth. He should've shut reggie down, but he didn't. And put up poor offense. So what was his defense worth there?

As ridiculous as a 99-02 AI vs Reggie argument is you took it to downright ignore status even talking about Kobe. As I said....if you take AIs years and give them to Reggie you’re a jackass if only for ignoring the existence of Kobe...and others for that matter. But you can’t look past Kobe.....even if he had bad averages for a few injured games.

Whoever you give the AI years to....it’s not Reggie Miller when Kobe existed. This is exactly the shit that gets Reggie such backlash. You can’t just be like “My
bad I didn’t think...it says AI 99-02 so giving Reggie those years is stupid because of Kobe”. You have to come in here and defend it.

If you think Kobe wasn’t there yet in 99 and the 99 series makes Reggie better than AI it would be hard to then say the 99 series where he was eliminated doing 16 on 36%/33% doesn’t make him worse than Alan Houston who beat him(remember...wins are individual now). He can’t have 2000 when Kobe existed unless long thrown out injured averages for a week mean more than basketball playing ability...or 01...or 02. He simply has no place. The end.

[FKAri]

Its 2021 and some people still overrate Reggie Miller. It's amazing what a hitting a bunch of clutch shots in the garden can do for your legacy.

[tpols]

As ridiculous as a 99-02 AI vs Reggie argument is you took it to downright ignore status even talking about Kobe. As I said....if you take AIs years and give them to Reggie you’re a jackass if only for ignoring the existence of Kobe...and others for that matter. But you can’t look past Kobe.....even if he had bad averages for a few injured games.

Whoever you give the AI years to....it’s not Reggie Miller when Kobe existed. This is exactly the shit that gets Reggie such backlash. You can’t just be like “My
bad I didn’t think...it says AI 99-02 so giving Reggie those years is stupid because of Kobe”. You have to come in here and defend it.

If you think Kobe wasn’t there yet in 99 and the 99 series makes Reggie better than AI it would be hard to then say the 99 series where he was eliminated doing 16 on 36%/33% doesn’t make him worse than Alan Houston who beat him(remember...wins are individual now). He can’t have 2000 when Kobe existed unless long thrown out injured averages for a week mean more than basketball playing ability...or 01...or 02. He simply has no place. The end.


The only thing the end is your arguments. Reggie could massively outplay a guy head to head in a given year... and you'll say he was worse.

I'm a huge Kobe fan (and everybody knows) but I'm not going to disrespect basic logic. You seem to have no problem doing that.

[Kblaze8855]

Anyone could outplay anyone head to head and be worse at basketball than them. Especially when you don’t consider anything but shooting percentages in a basketball evaluation. You aren’t as good as the efficiency average of 4-7 games. You’re as good as you are at basketball. And as good as you are vs the NBA. Not as good as you are in any individual matchup.

At the best he ever was....2000 Kobe could score like Reggie....only he had handles to create...and he could pass at more than a rudimentary level. Add in that he was by then a deserving all D first teamer....it isn’t close.

Reggie can’t any any point be what 2000 Kobe was. Didn’t have the total offensive skill, the athleticism, or the defense. He was an inferior player of basketball even if he had better shooting numbers than an injured Kobe for a week while being eliminated.

If it’s not AI...it’s still not Reggie in a world Kobe existed. Keep making even the real pacer fans cringe though. You’re exactly what justifies those saying Reggie is overrated. Talking about Kobe ****ing Bryant or Reggie 99-02....too proud to just say “Yea I forgot Kobe....”.

Keep it going though. I’ll quote you the next time I’m asked why I compare Reggie to elites he can’t equal when it makes him look bad.

[Reggie43]

Finals stints and deep playoff runs matter to guys at that level. Just because Goat level players get clowned for merely making the Finals doesnt mean its not an achievement to guys a tier or two below. Some Mvp caliber players barely even make the Conference Finals if at all and some have good/great help. How many Mvps didnt reach the Finals their whole career?

Trying to hype up unproven guys just because of perceived ability during the regular season is as iffy as it gets. Too many players would look great in the regular season, having big games and hitting gamewinners for your team then proceed crumble under playoff pressure.

[Gohan]

Anyone could outplay anyone head to head and be worse at basketball than them. Especially when you don’t consider anything but shooting percentages in a basketball evaluation. You aren’t as good as the efficiency average of 4-7 games. You’re as good as you are at basketball. And as good as you are vs the NBA. Not as good as you are in any individual matchup.

At the best he ever was....2000 Kobe could score like Reggie....only he had handles to create...and he could pass at more than a rudimentary level. Add in that he was by then a deserving all D first teamer....it isn’t close.

Reggie can’t any any point be what 2000 Kobe was. Didn’t have the total offensive skill, the athleticism, or the defense. He was an inferior player of basketball even if he had better shooting numbers than an injured Kobe for a week while being eliminated.

If it’s not AI...it’s still not Reggie in a world Kobe existed. Keep making even the real pacer fans cringe though. You’re exactly what justifies those saying Reggie is overrated. Talking about Kobe ****ing Bryant or Reggie 99-02....too proud to just say “Yea I forgot Kobe....”.

Keep it going though. I’ll quote you the next time I’m asked why I compare Reggie to elites he can’t equal when it makes him look bad.

You don’t have to sugarcoat it lol he can’t f with iverson either

[Reggie43]

Miller was always an above average to good defender in his prime. He always gave equal effort on that end of the court and took pride in doing it never shying away from that big matchup at the position. Always willing to hustle and sacrifice his body just to make the game winning play. No amount of bias or revisionist history would change that.

Even Jordan himself said Reggie is the one player he hated playing against partly because of his dirty defensive tactics among other things.

Pacers strength was on defense in those years and Miller was a big part of that unless you want to credit Mark for carrying him in that side of the floor lol who in fairness was a smart defender but lacked the footspeed.

There is a reason you would rarely see his direct matchup have big games in the playoffs simply because he was a very capable defender backed by a good defensive team. Its not a coincidence that some of his most famous moments usually involved a steal or a defensive stop to finish the play.

This was the guy who at the biggest game of his career at the time held the Goat to 9/25 shooting and almost eliminated him in the Conference Finals. He was credited as one of the better Jordan defenders after that by the media.