Why does nobody mention this when ranking Kareem all-time

[coastalmarker99]

nobody mentions the fact that Kareem who is always thought as a top 3 player of all time on this site and others beat 0 50+ win teams to make the 1971, 1982, 1984, 1987 Finals in fact only once did Kareem beat 3 50+ win teams in a playoff run in his entire career plus He never beat 2 60+ win teams in a playoff run as well.

On the other hand, every championship team from 1992 to 1998 had to beat either 3 50+ win teams, 2 60+ win teams, and sometimes both which means that Jordan and Hakeem had to work much harder for their rings compared to Kareem.









When you look at NBA history The 1970s is the only post-infancy decade with no great dynasty
The 1960s - Celtics
The 1980s - Lakers and Celtics
The 1990s - Bulls
The 2000s - Lakers and Spurs
The 2010s - Warriors

There was no 60+ win team in 5 of 10 seasons in the 1970s. From 1980 to 2017 that only happened once in 38 years (2000/01). Even in 2001, the Lakers became one of only two teams (2010 Lakers) to beat 4 50+ win teams in one playoffs, so the competition was still of far superior overall quality.


Also Kareem did not have to face many of the best players of the 1970s for several years

The ABA diluted the NBA by removing the best competition and placing them in a separate league
Rick Barry - 1969-1972
Artis Gilmore - 1972-1976
Billy Cunningham - 1973-1974
George Gervin - 1973-1976
Julius Erving - 1972-1976
David Thompson - 1976

Sub-50 Win Finals Teams from 1960-present
1965 Lakers - 49-31 - 80 game season
1977 Blazers - 49-33
2003 Nets - 49-33 - the last sub-50 team to make the NBA Finals
1964 Warriors - 48-32 - 80 game season
1969 Celtics - 48-34
1972 Knicks - 48-34
1975 Warriors - 48-34
1978 Sonics - 47-35
1995 Rockets - 47-35
1970 Lakers - 46-36
1966 Lakers - 45-35 - 80 game season
1967 Warriors - 44-37 - 81 game season
1978 Bullets - 44-38
1999 Knicks - 44-38 - win% adjusted for 82 games (27-23)
1971 Bullets - 42-40
1976 Suns - 42-40
1981 Rockets - 40-42 - only losing Finals team since 1959

8 of the 17 sub-50 win teams to make the Finals from 1960-present came in the weak 1970s.

1-seeds that had under 50 wins, 79+ game seasons only (1961-present)
1964 Warriors - 48-32
1965 Lakers - 49-31
1966 Lakers - 45-35
1967 Warriors - 44-37
1970 Hawks - 48-34
1975 Warriors - 48-34

In 79+ game seasons (1961-present), the 1960s and 1970s are the only decades to produce conferences with no 50+ win teams.

5 worst-record Finals teams (1960-present)
1999 Knicks - 44-38 (adj. for 82)
1978 Bullets - 44-38
1971 Bullets - 42-40
1976 Suns - 42-40
1981 Rockets - 40-42

The 1978 NBA Finals is the only time since 1958 that both Finals teams had under 50 wins, and the 1958 season only lasted 72 games. Record-wise, three of the five worst Finals teams from 1960-present were in the 1970s.

In one of the two championships that Kareem was the finals Mvp in the 1971 Bucks had one of the weakest paths to title of all-time
41-41 Warriors
48-34 Lakers (no Jerry West)
42-40 Bullets (Gus Johnson out 2 of 4 games)

When Jerry West returned in 1972, the Lakers beat the Bucks on the way to the 1972 title.

Conclusion - Kareem played in the weakest 1960s-present decade for almost all his prime. This made it significantly easier for him statistically and accolade-wise compared to future players.

In the 1980s, Kareem continued to benefit from easy competition.


Finals teams who faced 0 50+ win teams in pre-Finals rounds
Kareem's Bucks/Lakers 4 times (1971, 1982, 1984, 1987)
Since then, only happened 3 times (1989 Pistons, 2002 Nets, 2013 Heat)

The 1984 and 1987 Lakers are the last teams before 2007 Cavs to face two 0.500 or worse teams to make the Finals.

[coastalmarker99]

On another note, Kareem's fellow MVP winners were the likes of Cowens, Walton, and McAdoo. This was incredibly easy competition for MVPs and not at all comparable to future MVP competition like Magic, Bird, Moses, Jordan, Isiah, Kevin Johnson, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Barkley, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, Nash, Wade, Durant, Curry, and many more.

Bob McAdoo in 1975 was the only pre-1996 MVP to not make the 50 Greatest List. Since 1996, Derrick Rose is likely the only other MVP who would not make the 50 Greatest.


In 1976, Kareem became the only MVP to miss the playoffs. When the best player in the league can't make the playoffs - tells a lot about the league's quality. Likewise, when the best player of that decade in Kareem missed the playoffs twice, something no other consensus top 10 player has done, that further confirms the weakness of the league's quality

[And1AllDay]

no one cares hes a far distant player to bran and mike and kobe

https://i.postimg.cc/Wz1yJ3Sg/landslide_honors_legoat.png

[Psileas]

Well, as someone who ranks Wilt over Kareem, I sure think that doing the exact opposite has unfortunately become somewhat of a trend in many boards, but I sure can't find any serious reasons as to why (no, winning titles in your 40's with Prime Showtime is not a serious reason). However, I don't think this is a board that even understands what you're saying - and the post right after yours confirms it. But, yeah, for some reason, Kareem, among "serious" fans, seems to get several free passes compared to Wilt. E.g, we see it in places like RealGm, where, in their long projects, he's regularly declared "player of the year" in pretty much any season of the 70's, without his shortcomings being subject to any kinds of serious scrutiny the same way Wilt's are.


no one cares hes a far distant player to bran and mike and kobe


The reason no-one cares isn't only because he's distant (we surely know most NBA fans have the long term memory and knowledge of a goldfish), it's because he's a big man and marketing hates promoting bigs. If marketing cares to mythologize someone, it doesn't matter how old he is. It just only happens to non bigs.
Btw, Jordan is chronologically closer to Kareem than he's to LeBron - let alone to even younger players.

[iamgine]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?453898-Was-Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar-really-that-good


The guy was highly touted as the 2nd GOAT (perhaps now overtaken by Lebron but still).

Yet in the 'weak' '70s, he only managed to win 1 title. This is despite playing for 6 seasons with Oscar Robertson and another all star in Bob Dandridge so it's not like he was playing with bad teammates like MJ.

In his 10 prime seasons before Magic, his team:

Made Finals 2x Won 1x
Lost in Conference Finals 3x
Lost in Conference Semis 2x
Lost in 1st Rnd 1x
Missed playoff 2x

I'm not sure this is really a resume worthy of how high he's usually ranked.