Ball movement systems vs ball dominant systems

[Bronbron23]

Ball movement systems are clearly supior so why do so many teams now use ball dominant systems? I watch how easily the jazz beat teams even though they're less talented then most and i don't get why everyone dosn't play this way. Ball dominant systems almost never win chips. The "put the ball in your best players hands more" theory hasn't been successful. It only benefits the guy with ball because he racks up insane stats. So why do so many teams continue to play this way?

[jayfan]

I don't think there are ball dominant systems per se, but ball dominant players in unstructured systems.


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[ArbitraryWater]

because some teams dont have the handling/passing/moving/IQ/shooting to be ball movement type teams, and any type of possession wasted on lesser players will yield in much less successful teams / offenses than if 1 man carries the show.

see lebron cavs, doncic mavs, etc

you think the mavs are better if doncic has less time on the ball, which is instead shared between finney-smith and hardaway?

[HylianNightmare]

because some teams dont have the passing/moving/IQ/shooting to be ball movement type teams, and any type of possession wasted on lesser players will yield in much less successful teams / offenses than if 1 man carries the show.

see lebron cavs, doncic mavs, etc

High iq post

[Bronbron23]

because some teams dont have the handling/passing/moving/IQ/shooting to be ball movement type teams, and any type of possession wasted on lesser players will yield in much less successful teams / offenses than if 1 man carries the show.

see lebron cavs, doncic mavs, etc

you think the mavs are better if doncic has less time on the ball, which is instead shared between finney-smith and hardaway?

I don't know if they'd be better or not. There is some truth to what your saying but at this level i think it's less of a factor because the talent discrepancy in the nba is much closer together than lower levels. You could ask the same question with the warriors and steph, donavan mitchell and the jazz or any star player and team before ball dominance become popular. Would the bulls in 93-94 have been better with the ball in pips hands more?

[Im Still Ballin]

Lots of ball movement increases the risk of turnovers. During the playoffs, referees allow a certain degree of increased physicality, resulting in a stronger defensive presence.

Naturally, teams slow the pace down and simplify things, so that turnovers are avoided. Simple two-man actions, isolations, post-ups -- these become more prioritized in the postseason.

When every possession matters, offense degenerates to what is safe. Having someone who can create a high-percentage shot at any time is a premium commodity.

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't know if they'd be better or not. There is some truth to what your saying but at this level i think it's less of a factor because the talent discrepancy in the nba is much closer together than lower levels. You could ask the same question with the warriors and steph, donavan mitchell and the jazz or any star player and team before ball dominance become popular. Would the bulls in 93-94 have been better with the ball in pips hands more?

irrelevant question.

any type of ball dominat team is so ball dominant because they lack a supporting cast and are much better off with their #1 handling it most of the time.

its not some kind of strategical mistake or coaching oversight.

its a poorly structured / flawed / incomplete team which leads to it.

[Airupthere]

because some teams dont have the handling/passing/moving/IQ/shooting to be ball movement type teams, and any type of possession wasted on lesser players will yield in much less successful teams / offenses than if 1 man carries the show.

see lebron cavs, doncic mavs, etc

you think the mavs are better if doncic has less time on the ball, which is instead shared between finney-smith and hardaway?

Isnt that just convenience then from coaching point of view? My other guys have low bball iq and should not play in a system so I will just keep feeding the ball to my main guy and let him do the high iq plays???

[ArbitraryWater]

Isnt that just convenience then from coaching point of view? My other guys have low bball iq and should not play in a system so I will just keep feeding the ball to my main guy and let him do the high iq plays???

What are you trying to say, exactly?

They still run plays, it just mainly goes through that #1 guy.

[iamgine]

Jazz really isn't less talented than most.

[Bronbron23]

Jazz really isn't less talented than most.

Didn't mean most in the league just most in the post season. Who are they more talented than? Nets, lakers, clippers, suns, bucks, philly and denver are all more talented. Mitchell is nice but Gobert, bog and Connally aren't stars. They're solid role players though.

[Bronbron23]

irrelevant question.

any type of ball dominat team is so ball dominant because they lack a supporting cast and are much better off with their #1 handling it most of the time.

its not some kind of strategical mistake or coaching oversight.

its a poorly structured / flawed / incomplete team which leads to it.

Not true almosr nobody played this way up until recently. It's definitely a choice.

[iamgine]

Didn't mean most in the league just most in the post season. Who are they more talented than? Nets, lakers, clippers, suns, bucks, philly and denver are all more talented. Mitchell is nice but Gobert, bog and Connally aren't stars. They're solid role players though.

They're just as talented as any other team, just in a more subtle way. Just like mid-00 Pistons wasn't less talented than other teams.

[baudkarma]

The team chemistry that's required to be a successful ball-movement offense takes a long time to develop. Take the Spurs '14 championship team, for example. Kawhi, Tiago, Boris, Patty, Danny... all had been with the team at least three seasons. Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker had been playing together since the Cretaceous age. So all those guys knew what to do with the ball on offense. While the pass was heading for them, they already knew where the ball needed to go next. Without that kind of teamwork, there's often hesitation on the part of the ball handler, and even just a little hesitation gives the defense time to recover. In the modern NBA, very few teams can keep their core together long enough to develop that kind of teamwork.

The other factor is that a lot of your star players aren't really interested in being part of a ball movement offense. They want to be the hero. They'll pass to an open teammate for an easy assist, but passing to a teammate so that he can pass it to someone else so that there will be another pass leading to an easy shot? Not interested. Doesn't do anything for their individual stat line. They'd rather hold the ball and shoot it themselves.

[Bronbron23]

They're just as talented as any other team, just in a more subtle way. Just like mid-00 Pistons wasn't less talented than other teams.

Well that was a little different. For one There wasn't as much colluding back then so overall teams were more close to each other as far as talent.

Second this topic is about offense and that pistons mainly won because of their defense. This years jazz on the other hand have a top offense.

[imdaman99]

Too many egos to allow that to happen, you gotta be willing to give up your stats like ginobli did his entire career

[Xiao Yao You]

Ball movement systems are clearly supior so why do so many teams now use ball dominant systems? I watch how easily the jazz beat teams even though they're less talented then most and i don't get why everyone dosn't play this way. Ball dominant systems almost never win chips. The "put the ball in your best players hands more" theory hasn't been successful. It only benefits the guy with ball because he racks up insane stats. So why do so many teams continue to play this way?

Jazz had two of the best players in the league this year. Unfortunately Mitchell and Clarkson prefer the ball dominant system over the blender