So I noticed on these Kawhi highlights that Luka does absolutely NOTHING on Defense

[BigShotBob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqSHQOHYeJ0

Too lazy to post gifs. But I was rewatching Kawhi's highlights and what alarmed me the most was the low effort defense or hustle Luka displayed. In fact, saying it was "low effort" would be an understatement. He was either lost or didn't move at all.

There's a highlight of Kawhi getting an offensive rebound and putting it back up and Luka not only didn't box out, he literally stood and waited for the rebound and didn't even move or pay attention to his surroundings at all.

He honestly doesn't do much of anything. Luka is hidden on defense in a corner or on a shooter and he still fails to close out or rotate properly. There's no defensive intensity, IQ, or focus. All he seems to care about is offense.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yeah I don't know if it's low iq or low effort but he sucks on defense.

Euros don't really play defense I guess, Nash luka and jokic are all bad. Dirk was actually average and probably the best among the euros but that's not saying much.

[1987_Lakers]

Yeah I don't know if it's low iq or low effort but he sucks on defense.

Euros don't really play defense I guess, Nash luka and jokic are all bad. Dirk was actually average and probably the best among the euros but that's not saying much.

The last 3 DPOY winners have been European. :oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

The last 3 DPOY winners have been European. :oldlol:

You know what he meant.

[AirBonner]

The last 3 DPOY winners have been European. :oldlol:

Damn wrecked lol

[97 bulls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqSHQOHYeJ0

Too lazy to post gifs. But I was rewatching Kawhi's highlights and what alarmed me the most was the low effort defense or hustle Luka displayed. In fact, saying it was "low effort" would be an understatement. He was either lost or didn't move at all.

There's a highlight of Kawhi getting an offensive rebound and putting it back up and Luka not only didn't box out, he literally stood and waited for the rebound and didn't even move or pay attention to his surroundings at all.

He honestly doesn't do much of anything. Luka is hidden on defense in a corner or on a shooter and he still fails to close out or rotate properly. There's no defensive intensity, IQ, or focus. All he seems to care about is offense.

You'd be surprised at how many great players are more great scorers. It's very difficult to play at a high level on both sides of the ball.

I dont quite know at what point defense became so much of an afterthought in basketball but it is today.

I made a thread showcasing Lillard awful defense and a poster literally said it was ok for him to be a bad defender. Lack of effort on defense is the biggest reason why a lot of guys dont have a Championship. Not because of a bad offensive night and not because they didnt have sufficient help.

[iamgine]

I think it's by design since he does so much for the offense. He's conserving energy on defense by just doing the minimum. He does rotate and contest shots though, but at quite a slow speed.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The last 3 DPOY winners have been European. :oldlol:

The one's with offensive responsibility and aren't black lol

[1987_Lakers]

I think it's by design since he does so much for the offense. He's conserving energy on defense by just doing the minimum. He does rotate and contest shots though, but at quite a slow speed.

Yes, it's very common for superstar players to conserve their energy on defense. LeBron does it, Kobe did it, even MJ did it as he aged. Hell, Kwahi Leonard is no longer the defender he once was because he has so much more responsibility on offense.

Big men like Hakeem didn't have that problem because they would just react to what's going on in the paint for the most part. Perimeter defense requires much more energy.

[Shooter]

The last 3 DPOY winners have been European. :oldlol:

Well that ended quickly :lol

[mehyaM24]

luka is young & definitely has room to improve. a lot of guys his age prefer racking up numbers & chasing scoring feats. things good for his brand. luka didn't have the help kawhi did, but kawhi stepped up on defense. especially these last 2 games. read somewhere that luka shot 9 for 30 something with kawhi guarding him.

[iamgine]

You'd be surprised at how many great players are more great scorers. It's very difficult to play at a high level on both sides of the ball.

I dont quite know at what point defense became so much of an afterthought in basketball but it is today.

I made a thread showcasing Lillard awful defense and a poster literally said it was ok for him to be a bad defender. Lack of effort on defense is the biggest reason why a lot of guys dont have a Championship. Not because of a bad offensive night and not because they didnt have sufficient help.

Nah, in reality the reason a lot of guys don't have the chip is cause they don't have a good enough team. Hakeem was bounced out of first round multiple times. Are we gonna say to Hakeem, you lack effort on defense, before he finally won?

[97 bulls]

Yes, it's very common for superstar players to conserve their energy on defense. LeBron does it, Kobe did it, even MJ did it as he aged. Hell, Kwahi Leonard is no longer the defender he once was because he has so much more responsibility on offense.

Big men like Hakeem didn't have that problem because they would just react to what's going on in the paint for the most part. Perimeter defense requires much more energy.

Lol SMDH. I'm not gonna derail this thread. But I gotta ask you. Do you think if these superstars that conserve their energy on defense didnt and had to actually play defense, that it would effect their offense?

[97 bulls]

Nah, in reality the reason a lot of guys don't have the chip is cause they don't have a good enough team. Hakeem was bounced out of first round multiple times. Are we gonna say to Hakeem, you lack effort on defense, before he finally won?

That doesn't apply to everyone. But it does apply to most.

[iamgine]

That doesn't apply to everyone. But it does apply to most.

In reality it doesn't

[ShawkFactory]

He’s 22. Find me a list of guys that age who carried a team offensively on every level and was dominant defensively. Maybe a non center

I get that he’s here now and everything but he’s 22 years old. Plenty of people figured out how to navigate a game on both ends as they aged.

[Shooter]

He’s 22. Find me a list of guys that age who carried a team offensively on every level and was dominant defensively.

I get that he’s here now and everything but he’s 22 years old. Plenty of people figured out how to navigate a game on both ends as they aged.

I mean, right? MJ was getting swept three years in a row. Then even after Pippen he still got his cheeks busted on by Detroit for three years in a row. It took Jordan 8 years and Scottie Pippen to win a chip. Cut LeLuka some slack.

[97 bulls]

In reality it doesn't

Ok. You named Olajuwan and I'd agreed. Give me another example.

[97 bulls]

He’s 22. Find me a list of guys that age who carried a team offensively on every level and was dominant defensively. Maybe a non center

I get that he’s here now and everything but he’s 22 years old. Plenty of people figured out how to navigate a game on both ends as they aged.

This is a very fair point. Luca is very young.

[mehyaM24]

portland's team defense is trash, 97. think they're dead last in that department. dame dollar, a small guard, isn't gonna sway an ENTIRE team defense. portland would need to surround him with the right pieces. just la did with magic & dallas did for dirk.

[1987_Lakers]

Ok. You named Olajuwan and I'd agreed. Give me another example.

A peak/prime David Robinson was an all-time great defender, got bounced in the 1st round 3 times and no Finals appearances.

[1987_Lakers]

Lol SMDH. I'm not gonna derail this thread. But I gotta ask you. Do you think if these superstars that conserve their energy on defense didnt and had to actually play defense, that it would effect their offense?

Of course it would, by the 4th quarter they would be spent with no stamina to produce efficient offense unless you have godly stamina.

[iamgine]

Ok. You named Olajuwan and I'd agreed. Give me another example.

literally almost everyone. MJ before championship?

[kawhileonard2]

I mean, right? MJ was getting swept three years in a row. Then even after Pippen he still got his cheeks busted on by Detroit for three years in a row. It took Jordan 8 years and Scottie Pippen to win a chip. Cut LeLuka some slack.

Actually 7 years for the franchise that drafted him. It took Lebron 9 years and that joining forces with a guy who won as the man at that person's franchise.

[97 bulls]

portland's team defense is trash, 97. think they're dead last in that department. dame dollar, a small guard, isn't gonna sway an ENTIRE team defense. portland would need to surround him with the right pieces. just la did with magic & dallas did for dirk.

I understand. But Lillard is a part of that defense right?

[imdaman99]

I understand. But Lillard is a part of that defense right?

Yep, he is a bad defender and so is CJ. It's hard to hide them both when they are on at the same time. That's why 1 gotta go, prob CJ.

As for Luka, as a youngin it's a bad habit to play traffic cone D. Hopefully he develops into being respectable at that end.

[sportjames23]

Actually 7 years for the franchise that drafted him. It took Lebron 9 years and that joining forces with a guy who won as the man at that person's franchise.

https://media.giphy.com/media/jmSImqrm28Vdm/giphy.gif

[1987_Lakers]

https://media.giphy.com/media/jmSImqrm28Vdm/giphy.gif

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

[97 bulls]

Of course it would, by the 4th quarter they would be spent with no stamina to produce efficient offense unless you have godly stamina.

Noted

[mehyaM24]

I understand. But Lillard is a part of that defense right?

last time i checked he plays for portland. still, not gonna blame lillard for his team being ranked last. that's a personnel issue.

[97 bulls]

Yep, he is a bad defender and so is CJ. It's hard to hide them both when they are on at the same time. That's why 1 gotta go, prob CJ.

As for Luka, as a youngin it's a bad habit to play traffic cone D. Hopefully he develops into being respectable at that end.

Lol.

[1987_Lakers]

Another good example is Tracy McGrady, he was considered one of the better perimeter defenders when he first came into the league, then his defense declined the moment his scoring went up drastically. Kobe's best defensive season was 2000, when he was a 20 ppg player.

[97 bulls]

last time i checked he plays for portland. still, not gonna blame lillard for his team being ranked last. that's a personnel issue.

But Lillard is gonna get the credit for their success right? You know basketball. Defense is five guys on a string.

But still if Lillard was even a little better on defense they get past the Nuggets right? And mind you, the Nugget were missing teo of their best players. Guards. By the way

[sportjames23]

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

https://media1.tenor.com/images/00955ad3b64fddb5a4edba8c2543ece0/tenor.gif?itemid=11854332

[97 bulls]

Another good example is Tracy McGrady, he was considered one of the better perimeter defenders when he first came into the league, then his defense declined the moment his scoring went up drastically. Kobe's best defensive season was 2000, when he was a 20 ppg player.

McGrady had a lot of injuries.

[1987_Lakers]

McGrady had a lot of injuries.

Not in 2003, that was his best offensive season, but his defense took a noticeable dip compared to prior seasons.

[mehyaM24]

But Lillard is gonna get the credit for their success right? You know basketball. Defense is five guys on a string.

But still if Lillard was even a little better on defense they get past the Nuggets right? And mind you, the Nugget were missing teo of their best players. Guards. By the way

its not that simple dude. magic, barkley & dirk all got credit for their offense. historically players lillard's size don't have game-changing defensive impact. bigmen & few swingmen aside, quality defense is a team effort.

lillard gets blame, just not as much as you think.

[97 bulls]

its not that simple dude. magic, barkley & dirk all got credit for their offense. historically players lillard's size don't have game-changing defensive impact. bigmen & few swingmen aside, quality defense is a team effort.

lillard gets blame, just not as much as you think.

Bro. I posted a link showing how bad Lillard was on HIS MAN.

Offense is a team effort as well. Guys setting good screens and picks, offensive rebounding, knowing the offensive plays. It's not one on one.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think the NBA doesnt have 1-1 tournaments at the Allstar games?

[BigShotBob]

I think it's by design since he does so much for the offense. He's conserving energy on defense by just doing the minimum. He does rotate and contest shots though, but at quite a slow speed.

He's not "conserving energy" he literally doesn't know what he's doing sometimes. His rotations are off and he helps for no reason or anticipates a shot going up so he can grab a rebound without even boxing out. He legitimately doesn't have a clue on what he's doing and the little things add up.

Boxing out doesn't take a lot of energy especially on the perimeter.

What a sad excuse.

Let's just be honest. Luka is a net negative on defense.


Yes, it's very common for superstar players to conserve their energy on defense. LeBron does it, Kobe did it, even MJ did it as he aged. Hell, Kwahi Leonard is no longer the defender he once was because he has so much more responsibility on offense.

Big men like Hakeem didn't have that problem because they would just react to what's going on in the paint for the most part. Perimeter defense requires much more energy.

Watch the highlights again. This isn't "conserving energy" this is "I legitimately don't know what I'm doing."

This would be like Patrick Beverly "conserving energy" on offense by crowding the paint, not spacing the floor, and just standing/walking around doing absolutely nothing. He would be a detriment just like Luka currently is.

[mehyaM24]

Bro. I posted a link showing how bad Lillard was on HIS MAN.

Offense is a team effort as well. Guys setting good screens and picks, offensive rebounding, knowing the offensive plays. It's not one on one.

question. what is good defense to you? and for dame, how much would it change portland's 29/30 rank?


Let me ask you a question. Why do you think the NBA doesnt have 1-1 tournaments at the Allstar games?

not seeing how this is relevant. nobody said team offense doesn't require help, 97. but you also know individual offense is prioritized in today's game. the stars all wanna teamup with each other.

[Shooter]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/00955ad3b64fddb5a4edba8c2543ece0/tenor.gif?itemid=11854332

https://i.postimg.cc/wTqLqW76/SportJamesOwned.png

Lying coward.

[97 bulls]

question. what is good defense to you? and for dame, how much would it change portland's 29/30 rank?

Good defense is staying engaged until your team has secured the Ball. Once your man blows past you and you become a spectator, and the "scrubs" as ISH posters sometimes like to claim, now have to screamble to help, it makes it very hard for a team to be successful.



not seeing how this is relevant. nobody said team offense doesn't require help, 97. but you also know individual offense is prioritized in today's game. the stars all wanna teamup with each other.
I ask this because far too often, these conversations on teams have been relegated to players. Like Lebron beat Butler. No, The Lakers beat the Heat. If people are so enamored with that, then let's see these guys actually play 1 on 1. That wont happen because I guarantee you'd have a lot of hurt egos.

[hold this L]

Yeah I don't know if it's low iq or low effort but he sucks on defense.

Euros don't really play defense I guess, Nash luka and jokic are all bad. Dirk was actually average and probably the best among the euros but that's not saying much.

Jokic is ok as a defender, I wouldn't say bad. Luka hogs the ball like prime Harden chuck-mode though. Then obviously has zero energy to spend defensively.

[tpols]

Yeah I don't know if it's low iq or low effort but he sucks on defense.

Euros don't really play defense I guess, Nash luka and jokic are all bad. Dirk was actually average and probably the best among the euros but that's not saying much.

Marc Gasol was a DPOY candidate and Manu is graded as an elite defender at SG. Plenty of role players too. Jokic grades in the positive as well. White people though tend to be less athletic so yes black players have a higher proportion of elite defenders.

[tpols]

Btw... Luka scored or assisted on 77 of his teams points last night. That's totally absurd. He was a hair away from beating a stacked heavy weight Clipper team with Tim Hardaway Jr. as his side kick. So his offense more than makes up for his defense. If you swapped Zingis and Paul George the Mavs would have easily won.

[Stanley Kobrick]

stephen curry's been doing it for 10+ season, what's the big fuss? standing in the corner on spot up shooters while klay/iggy/wiggins pick up the opposing guards best player is regular season mvp candidate pedigree

:confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

There's no defending Kawhi. It's not Luka's fault either. Kawhi was just as great against the Sixers in 2019, and they had Ben Simmons and Jimmy Butler guarding him with Embiid at the rim, didn't matter. Nothing Luka could do to stop Kawhi from shooting 60+% from mid-range or 40+% from 3, he contested most of those jump shots as well as he could. I'd look at Carlisle and ask him why they didn't force the ball out of Kawhi's hands more, you can't expect Doncic to do everything on offense and defense.

[mehyaM24]

Good defense is staying engaged until your team has secured the Ball. Once your man blows past you and you become a spectator, and the "scrubs" as ISH posters sometimes like to claim, now have to screamble to help, it makes it very hard for a team to be successful.

I ask this because far too often, these conversations on teams have been relegated to players. Like Lebron beat Butler. No, The Lakers beat the Heat. If people are so enamored with that, then let's see these guys actually play 1 on 1. That wont happen because I guarantee you'd have a lot of hurt egos.

so if dame is a good on-ball defender how would it impact portland's rank? what's the value for a small guard? wouldn't mind seeing a 1v1 tournament but ya it'll never happen. of all team sports though basketball is influenced most by the individual. you've seen a number of stars carry their teams on offense. bigs aside, very few anchoring a defense by themself.

[BigShotBob]

Btw... Luka scored or assisted on 77 of his teams points last night. That's totally absurd. He was a hair away from beating a stacked heavy weight Clipper team with Tim Hardaway Jr. as his side kick. So his offense more than makes up for his defense. If you swapped Zingis and Paul George the Mavs would have easily won.

Compared to Kawhi, Luka doesn't have the impact he has because Kawhi was responsible for almost over half of his team's points while playing DPOY defense, hustling and grabbing offensive rebounds, etc. Luka doesn't really do anything. I'm not saying Luka tries and he's just not getting it. I'm saying Luka is literally a net negative. The highlights I showed proves it. He just stands there and does nothing. No one will ever win playing like that.

Also let's be honest about something. The reason the series was close was because of Tim Hardaway Jr being absurdly hot from 3.


There's no defending Kawhi. It's not Luka's fault either. Kawhi was just as great against the Sixers in 2019, and they had Ben Simmons and Jimmy Butler guarding him with Embiid at the rim, didn't matter. Nothing Luka could do to stop Kawhi from shooting 60+% from mid-range or 40+% from 3, he contested most of those jump shots as well as he could. I'd look at Carlisle and ask him why they didn't force the ball out of Kawhi's hands more, you can't expect Doncic to do everything on offense and defense.

I'm not talking about Luka defending Kawhi. I'm saying he can't even properly guard Marcus Morris because he literally loses his man trying to hunt for a rebound (while standing still and not boxing out) and then Kawhi passes to Morris for a wide open 3 that he hits, and Luka just stands there looking dumbfounded. Are you going to tell me that was Tim Hardaway Jr's fault? His supporting cast has nothing to do with his lack of effort.

[Phoenix]

Luka is never gonna be a good defender. Things like reflexes, anticipation, IQ, positioning, lateral quickness, hustle...most of the great defenders have some if not all of these things innately. Luka hasn't exhibited any of that defensively. I mean sure, as time goes on he can improve IQ-wise but lateral quickness? Natural reflexes? You have it or you don't. Desire plays into defense too, and it's clear where 99% of Lukas is....when he has the ball.