Frontcourt ball-dominance (Giannis, Lebron) is worst brand of basketball in history

[3ball]

Having a big dude dribble around is the worst way for a team to play and requires super-team help to win.

Ultimately, Giannis is a worse version of 2010 Lebron (cringe) - he's a worse shooter and less skilled ball-dominator (cringe again).

So it's a sad devolvement of the game - today's hand-off spacing (beginner format) has yielded an entirely inferior player than what was produced in 2010 (bron).

All hail KD/Kyrie, who counter Giannis' lack of skill with goat skill

[red1]

I've actually tried to read and understand your points but they just dont hold up to further scrutiny.


basketball is a team sport.


jordan's bulls team were elite defensively. cough pippen.


if jordan was on the current bucks going up against these nets without pippen, or if he was on the 2010 cavs with mo williams as his wingmate - I guarantee he'd get swept both series :oldlol:

[AirBonner]

MJ wasn’t big enough for Madonna. She needed a Pippen

[red1]

kd and kyrie would take jordan's soul if he had mo williams or middleton as his second option

[red1]

the lakers will be right back next year with 3ball crying and making excuses :oldlol:

[Airupthere]

Lebron looked like a fkn hippo when driving to the lanes when AD went out. Tried to stiffarm his way into the lanes and still managed to get blocked or missed. So let's not even talk about ball dominance yet.

[3ball]

I've actually tried to read and understand your points but they just dont hold up to further scrutiny.


basketball is a team sport.


jordan's bulls team were elite defensively. cough pippen.


if jordan was on the current bucks going up against these nets without pippen, or if he was on the 2010 cavs with mo williams as his wingmate - I guarantee he'd get swept both series :oldlol:


Jrue Holiday and Middleton both out-produce pippen BY FAR, while the Bucks had #1 defenses

So Jordan would never lose with this Bucks cast... Against anyone.. Only a horrific brand of ball stops Giannis from doing the same.

[elementally morale]

It's really boring but the worst brand to me is Westbrook... followed by Harden and Giannis... and LeBron is not far behind.

[And1AllDay]

Lebron looked like a fkn hippo when driving to the lanes when AD went out. Tried to stiffarm his way into the lanes and still managed to get blocked or missed. So let's not even talk about ball dominance yet.

injured szn 18 bran?

how was szn 18 mike? oh :(

didnt make it?

ok fine what about.szn 17 mike?
no again :(
szn 16?
15?!
14?!

i see :(

[And1AllDay]

once mike abandoned chucker hero ball and went to bran ball he started winning

imagine that

:dancin

:lebronamazed:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Was never enamored with his game. Gannis plays great defense and is tough in transition.

In the playoffs though? His impact doesn't match the hype. Don't even need the numbers, but I bet they're down considerably from the regular-season.

[3ball]

It's really boring but the worst brand to me is Westbrook... followed by Harden and Giannis... and LeBron is not far behind.


They're all in the same boat

Look at Harden - he's a great talent, but the Nets play better without him... The Nets ceiling is higher with Harden, but it might not be achieved due to Harden's style.

[3ball]

Never been enamored with his game. Gannis plays great defense and is tough in transition.

In the playoffs though? His impact doesn't match the hype. Don't even need the numbers, but I bet they're down considerably from the regular-season.


Giannis gets figured out like Lebron in the 2010 ECSF, when he averaged 21 on 34% in the last 3 games.

Or when lebron shot 60% for the first 2 games of the 09' ECF, and 42% for the last 4 (iverson-style)

More importantly, high scoring from Giannis and Lebron involves a lot of dribbling, which lowers ball movement, so they typically lose when they average super-high amounts (can't win with high scoring carry-jobs)

[tpols]

It's really boring but the worst brand to me is Westbrook... followed by Harden and Giannis... and LeBron is not far behind.

The difference with Harden is he can shoot and score from anywhere and they can't. Plus he can dime between 10-15 assists per game because he fits with any type of player shooter or non shooter.

[3ball]

The difference with Harden is he can shoot and score from anywhere and they can't. Plus he can dime between 10-15 assists per game because he fits with any type of player shooter or non shooter.


As a skilled jumpshooter, Harden has the capacity to fit with anyone, but that doesn't mean he ACCESSES that capacity by actually being a jumpshooter off-ball..

The Nets are a buzz saw right now without him, so I think he needs to fit in better when he returns

[red1]

Jrue Holiday and Middleton both out-produce pippen BY FAR, while the Bucks had #1 defenses

So Jordan would never lose with this Bucks cast... Against anyone.. Only a horrific brand of ball stops Giannis from doing the same.

:roll: :roll:



dude just shut the **** up.




jordan would get swept by the nets if he had giannis' team.




remember when you argued jordan and mo williams was a championship duo? :roll:

[3ball]

:roll: :roll:



dude just shut the **** up.




jordan would get swept by the nets if he had giannis' team.




remember when you argued jordan and mo williams was a championship duo? :roll:


Kyrie/KD < Shaq/Penny or Stockton/Malone

Jordan had a much worse cast then Giannis on both sides of the ball, yet won 6 rings because he's the GOAT

Middletown and Jrue vastly out-produce pippen, while the Bucks have #1 defenses

[tpols]

:roll: :roll:



dude just shut the **** up.




jordan would get swept by the nets if he had giannis' team.




remember when you argued jordan and mo williams was a championship duo? :roll:

You are legit retarded. This Bucks team is loaded and no way in hell would MJ lose to the Nets after Harden went out.

[tpols]

As a skilled jumpshooter, Harden has the capacity to fit with anyone, but that doesn't mean he ACCESSES that capacity by actually being a jumpshooter off-ball..

The Nets are a buzz saw right now without him, so I think he needs to fit in better when he returns

They were a buzz saw with him too. With Blake back to prime form and Joe Harris playing like Klay the Nets are so stacked they can afford to drop a player and have the other talent just pick up the slack. Blake had monster game 1 so he simply picked up the slack.

[3ball]

They were a buzz saw with him too. With Blake back to prime form and Joe Harris playing like Klay the Nets are so stacked they can afford to drop a player and have the other talent just pick up the slack. Blake had monster game 1 so he simply picked up the slack.


You might be right

But I think the Bucks look like trash against any real team, as the last 2 playoffs show

[elementally morale]

The difference with Harden is he can shoot and score from anywhere and they can't. Plus he can dime between 10-15 assists per game because he fits with any type of player shooter or non shooter.


Harden is a better player than Giannis, sure. Way better. But in a ball dominant role he brings the same boredom for me. The way he played on the Rockets... some nice assists... and 30+ minutes of dribbling, fishing for fouls and stepping back shooting. Boring. Like watching a 3 point contest w/o end for 3 hours.

[tpols]

Harden is a better player than Giannis, sure. Way better. But in a ball dominant role he brings the same boredom for me. The way he played on the Rockets... some nice assists... and 30+ minutes of dribbling, fishing for fouls and stepping back shooting. Boring. Like watching a 3 point contest w/o end for 3 hours.

He was a one man army in Houston. On the Nets he cut the flopping shit out and turned on Magic Johnson mode. With talented teammates he really knows how to feed them. Harden's had monster assist games.

[elementally morale]

He was a one man army in Houston. On the Nets he cut the flopping shit out and turned on Magic Johnson mode. With talented teammates he really knows how to feed them. Harden's had monster assist games.

I believe you. I saw his talent but disliked the way he played. With CP3 he wasn't a one man army though... Capella is nice on the Hawks... Anyway, Harden-ball to me was boring. If it got better... great. (Saw a few Nets game but not that many. I'm mainly invested in the Nuggets and 76ers nowadays.)

[tpols]

I believe you. I saw his talent but disliked the way he played. With CP3 he wasn't a one man army though... Capella is nice on the Hawks... Anyway, Harden-ball to me was boring. If it got better... great. (Saw a few Nets game but not that many. I'm mainly invested in the Nuggets and 76ers nowadays.)

True but CP3 got hurt and is a ball dominator too. They were up 3-2 on the dynasty dubs in the 2018 WCFs when Paul went down. They would've won a championship if that didn't happen.

[elementally morale]

True but CP3 got hurt and is a ball dominator too. They were up 3-2 on the dynasty dubs in the 2018 WCFs when Paul went down. They would've won a championship if that didn't happen.

Yeah, maybe. I remember that series. I don't like Harden... but I understand why some (actually: most) people do. As long as I don't have to it's fine.

[red1]

You are legit retarded. This Bucks team is loaded and no way in hell would MJ lose to the Nets after Harden went out.

I never said anything about harden being out - my point was these nets when healthy are far more talented than the bucks. giannis isnt as good as lebron so OP's point is moot. even skip bayless the biggest hater of all time acknowledges that lebron is the GOAT driving to the rim and he can create open shots efficiently - the bucks would be a far better team if they swapped out giannis for 2009 or 2010 lbj.


I think these all are all undeniable facts.


FYI time proved me right and I won all of my debates with 3ball.


4 rings later....

[3ball]

I never said anything about harden being out - my point was these nets when healthy are far more talented than the bucks. giannis isnt as good as lebron so OP's point is moot. even skip bayless the biggest hater of all time acknowledges that lebron is the GOAT driving to the rim and he can create open shots efficiently - the bucks would be a far better team if they swapped out giannis for 2009 or 2010 lbj.


I think these all are all undeniable facts.


FYI time proved me right and I won all of my debates with 3ball.


4 rings later....


Bucks are stacked, but they lack the super-team star power (1b's) that lebron always needed to beat great teams

So Lebron would lose to these Nets just like Giannis

Otoh, Jordan beat superior duos to KD/Kyrie with a weaker cast than the Bucks

Middletown and Jrue vastly out-produce pippen, while the Bucks have #1 defenses (#7 for 1st three-peat Bulls)

[red1]

Bucks are stacked, but they lack the super-team star power (1b's) that lebron always needed to beat great teams

So Lebron would lose to these Nets just like Giannis

Otoh, Jordan beat superior duos to KD/Kyrie with a weaker cast than the Bucks

Middletown and Jrue vastly out-produce pippen, while the Bucks have #1 defenses (#7 for 1st three-peat Bulls)

I strongly disagree. the bucks have good role-players - they are FAR from stacked. stacked is the nets with all 3 stars healthy.

jordan didnt beat a single duo as talented as kd and kyrie - stockton/malone kemp/payton barkley/johnson none of them are as all-time talented as kd and kyrie.


assuming that he'd beat the nets with this bucks team - its just that, another assumption.



like the time you assumed that mo williams delonte west and varejao are more talented that pippen rodman kukoc etc

[3ball]

I strongly disagree. the bucks have good role-players - they are FAR from stacked. stacked is the nets with all 3 stars healthy.

jordan didnt beat a single duo as talented as kd and kyrie - stockton/malone kemp/payton barkley/johnson none of them are as all-time talented as kd and kyrie.


assuming that he'd beat the nets with this bucks team - its just that, another assumption.



like the time you assumed that mo williams delonte west and varejao are more talented that pippen rodman kukoc etc



1) Shaq > KD.... Penny > Kyrie

2) Magic > KD.... Worthy = Kyrie

3) Stockton > Kyrie.... Malone = KD (2 rings if not for MJ)


Jordan beat equal or greater duos with a weaker cast than these Bucks

Middletown and Jrue vastly out-produce pippen, while the Bucks have #1 defenses (#7 for 1st three-peat Bulls)...

Heck, Brook Lopez would challenge Pippen for 2nd option.. Lopez was 20/7 with 2 blocks before Giannis turned him into spot-up shooter

[tpols]

Middleton and Jrue have both made All Star teams. Brook Lopez too lmao. There's just no way MJ loses with 3 All Stars.

[red1]

1) Shaq > KD.... Penny > Kyrie

2) Magic > KD.... Worthy = Kyrie

3) Stockton > Kyrie.... Malone = KD (2 rings if not for MJ)


Jordan beat equal or greater duos with a weaker cast than these Bucks

Middletown and Jrue vastly out-produce pippen, while the Bucks have #1 defenses (#7 for 1st three-peat Bulls)... Heck, Brook Lopez would challenge Pippen for 2nd option

thats not how it works. I'd take the current version of kd and kyrie over all of those duos because they have experience and championships and are in their prime.


current kd and kyrie are absolutely better than young shaq and penny


jordan caught the lakers when they were on the decline the same way the pistons and celtics caught him before he had any help


malone does not equal KD and stockton is not better than kyrie.



why are you always wrong dude?





we didnt even mention harden. :oldlol:

[red1]

2) Magic > KD.... Worthy = Kyrie

3) Stockton > Kyrie.... Malone = KD (2 rings if not for MJ)why are you flip-flopping again 3ball? first you said kyrie was equal to lebron for their championship run, and now you're saying stockton is better than kyrie? :oldlol:



which is it? :oldlol:

[3ball]

jordan caught the lakers when they were on the decline





Don't lie - Magic was runner-up for MVP in 1991 and Worthy had one of his best seasons (all-nba).. And they had far better experience than KD/Kyrie.

Those Lakers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls and 4 guys average 17+ in the Finals (far better offensive help).






current kd and kyrie are absolutely better than young shaq and penny





Did KD/Kyrie win the East last year?

Shaq/Penny were the defending conference champs when MJ swept them - so they were in their prime - that was the best version of Penny that there ever was...

Shaq > KD... Penny > Kyrie






malone does not equal KD and stockton is not better than kyrie.





Malone won 2 MVP's (more than KD) and was a perennial all-defender (none for KD), while also winning 2 rings if not for MJ...

Meanwhile, Stockton is 8th all-time in BPM and has twice as many all-nba than Pippen, so he's far superior to Kyrie - it isn't close..

[red1]

Don't lie - Magic was runner-up for MVP in 1991 and Worthy had one of his best seasons (all-nba).. And they had far better experience than KD/Kyrie.

Those Lakers had a better-ranked defense than the Bulls and 4 guys average 17+ in the Finals (far better offensive help).






Did KD/Kyrie win the East last year?

Shaq/Penny were the defending conference champs when MJ swept them - so they were in their prime - that was the best version of Penny that there ever was...

Shaq > KD... Penny > Kyrie






Malone won 2 MVP's (more than KD) and was a perennial all-defender (none for KD), while also winning 2 rings if not for MJ...

Meanwhile, Stockton is 8th all-time in BPM and has twice as many all-nba than Pippen, so he's far superior to Kyrie - it isn't close..

hows that a lie? they WERE on the decline and that was the weakest version of that specific all-time team. the 91 version is definitely the weakest iteration.


and dude. just no. you wont convince me that current kyrie and kd are inferior to any of these duos. they are FACTUALLY the most talented duo when you consider that it was YOUNG shaq that you're comparing prime current KD to.


you yourself would draft kyrie and kd if you needed just one championship run. :oldlol:

[elementally morale]

Guys, I'm not sure you can compare duos of the past with KD/Kyrie.

Stockton and Malone played a LOT together. Magic and Worthy... loooooooooong years. And the NBA was different. Stockton and Malone as a DUO was (I think) more valuable back then than KD and Kyrie are as a DUO. Neither plays the point as a point guard and neither is the passer Stockton os Magic were. So strictly as a DUO... I think it's Shaq&Kobe and then probably Stockton&Malone. (No, MJ and Pippen were not a DUO. And I think KD and Kyrie are not a duo either... just two players playing on the same team. MJ and Pippen as two players were better than KD+Kyrie but I don't think either is a duo.

[red1]

Guys, I'm not sure you can compare duos of the past with KD/Kyrie.

Stockton and Malone played a LOT together. Magic and Worthy... loooooooooong years. And the NBA was different. Stockton and Malone as a DUO was (I think) more valuable back then than KD and Kyrie are as a DUO. Neither plays the point as a point guard and neither is the passer Stockton os Magic were. So strictly as a DUO... I think it's Shaq&Kobe and then probably Stockton&Malone. (No, MJ and Pippen were not a DUO. And I think KD and Kyrie are not a duo either... just two players playing on the same team. MJ and Pippen as two players were better than KD+Kyrie but I don't think either is a duo.

kyrie and kd are certified offensive legends. they both take souls. OP claims that kyrie was equal to lebron for his championship run, but now when the agenda doesnt suit him he claims that stockton is better than kyrie.



we all know that kyrie is a monster. comparing kd to malone is also an insult to kd the same way comparing kd to giannis is an insult to kd. kd might be the best offensive player ever.



I could literally imagine either player daggering jordan's bulls for a game-winner.

[3ball]

hows that a lie? they WERE on the decline and that was the weakest version of that specific all-time team. the 91 version is definitely the weakest iteration.


and dude. just no. you wont convince me that current kyrie and kd are inferior to any of these duos. they are FACTUALLY the most talented duo when you consider that it was YOUNG shaq that you're comparing prime current KD to.





The 91' Bulls were young, first-timers in the Finals - the entire team - they were the first team to win a title with all first-timers in the Finals...

So the 91' Lakers had the advantage, and their duo of Magic/Worthy were still in their prime and superior to KD/Kyrie.

Btw, Shaq/Penny weren't young and had just made the Finals in 95' - so your argument is weak/losing at best.

And you never refuted Malone's 2 MVP's to KD... Malone has more MVP's and Finals runs without super-teams.. again, Stockton/Malone > Kyrie/KD

[elementally morale]

kyrie and kd are certified offensive legends. they both take souls. OP claims that kyrie was equal to lebron for his championship run, but now when the agenda doesnt suit him he claims that stockton is better than kyrie.


Stockton WAS better than Kyrie. Less of a scorer and better at everything else. Kyrie meant a lot to that championship against GSW because he scored at the right time. The best player was obviously LeBron but Kyrie has his very important moments without which they would've lost. (Same with the 1st ring of Kobe and Shaq. Shaq was by far the better player but without Kobe they would not have won.)