Why didn't lebron have a goat team w/ Kyrie like KD does now, or like KD had w/ Curry

[3ball]

Lebron had the Curry-killer and therefore a sufficient cast to win in 2017.. How does any all-time great lose with a sidekick like Kyrie?

Unfortunately, Lebron's your-turn-my-turn brand wasted another dominant Finals from Kyrie in 2017

[ShawkFactory]

Curry outplayed Kyrie in the 2017 finals.

Therefore, KDs help > Lebrons (we'll ignore the rest of the players on the team because that's your favorite thing; but it certainly doesn't help your "sufficient cast" argument).

[3ball]

Curry outplayed Kyrie in the 2017 finals.

Therefore, KDs help > Lebrons (we'll ignore the rest of the players on the team because that's your favorite thing; but it certainly doesn't help your "sufficient cast" argument).


2017 Finals

Kyrie.... 29 on 47%
Curry.... 27 on 44%


Assists are irrelevant - they're a team decision to let one guy get assists... and Lebron craters his teammates assists' anyway, so it's an unfair comparison

So why didn't lebron have a goat team w/ Kyrie like KD does now, or like KD had w/ Curry

[Pip' N Rodman]

2017 Finals

Kyrie.... 29 on 47%
Curry.... 27 on 44%


Assists are irrelevant - they're a team decision to let one guy get assists... and Lebron craters his teammates assists' anyway, so it's an unfair comparison

So why didn't lebron have a goat team w/ Kyrie like KD does now, or like KD had w/ Curry

Now compare their 3rd, 4th, and 5th options

[ShawkFactory]

2017 Finals

Curry...27 on 62 TS%
Kyrie...29 on 56 TS%

Curry...126 ORTG, 113 DRTG
Kyrie...111 ORTG, 125 DRTG

Curry...8 rebounds
Kyrie...4 rebounds

Curry...2.2 steals
Kyrie...1 steal

Curry...24.1 avg game score
Kyrie...18.2 avg game score

As we can see, KD's second option completely outplayed Lebron's in the 2017 finals (and this also still ignores the rest of the roster, which again...won't help your "2017 Cavs had an equal cast" argument).

Additionally, the Cavs in 2017 were better than the Nets right now without Harden. They aren't anywhere near a GOAT team unless Harden plays.

[Airupthere]

Now compare their 3rd, 4th, and 5th options

the 3rd, 4th, and 5th options are bronball victims. GSW plays within team concept.

[Pip' N Rodman]

the 3rd, 4th, and 5th options are bronball victims. GSW plays within team concept.

That same Bron Ball beat a 73 win team while LeBron himself had no all-star teammates just a season earlier.

Try again :oldlol:

[3ball]

2017 Finals

Curry...27 on 62 TS%
Kyrie...29 on 56 TS%

Curry...126 ORTG, 113 DRTG
Kyrie...111 ORTG, 125 DRTG

Curry...8 rebounds
Kyrie...4 rebounds

Curry...2.2 steals
Kyrie...1 steal

Curry...24.1 avg game score
Kyrie...18.2 avg game score

As we can see, KD's second option completely outplayed Lebron's in the 2017 finals (and this also still ignores the rest of the roster, which again...won't help your "2017 Cavs had an equal cast" argument).

Additionally the Cavs in 2017 were better than the Nets right now without Harden. They aren't anywhere near a GOAT team unless Harden plays.


Before KD arrived, Curry was inferior to Kyrie on the championship level

So KD's presence elevated Curry and showed him the way.... And that's the point - KD elevates guys - KD has goat teams with Kyrie and Curry, while Lebron mostly loses with Kyrie or Wade or AD

[ShawkFactory]

Before KD arrived, Curry was inferior to Kyrie on the championship level

So KD's presence elevated Curry and showed him the way.... And that's the point - KD elevates guys - Kyrie and Curry have goat teams with KD, while Lebron mostly loses with Kyrie or Wade or AD

Aaaaaannnnd now we take a new angle :lol

[Airupthere]

That same Bron Ball beat a 73 win team while LeBron himself had no all-star teammates just a season earlier.

Try again :oldlol:

No sht they did. They did have a good team and thanks to kyrie being clutch, and dray's suspension. Still does not refute that bron ball diminishes teammates. Lifespan of Bron ball is 2-3 years, then he has to jumpship again.

[3ball]

Aaaaaannnnd now we take a new angle :lol


KD has goat teams with Kyrie and Curry, while Lebron mostly loses with Kyrie or Wade or AD

So KD is clearly elevating teammates, while Lebron isn't

[ShawkFactory]

Before KD arrived, Curry was inferior to Kyrie on the championship level

So KD's presence elevated Curry and showed him the way.... And that's the point - KD elevates guys - KD has goat teams with Kyrie and Curry, while Lebron mostly loses with Kyrie or Wade or AD
Because Lebron was elevating Kyrie.

Once Curry stepped into his rightful role as a second option (without the pressures of being the lead dog) he proved that he was better at that role than Kyrie...because he's a better player. We know he's better because he performed way better than Kyrie when they both were the 1st options on their team.

And since we've established Curry > Kyrie (unless Kyrie is playing in his comforting second role while Curry isn't)...it also appears that Kyrie was more elevated by Lebron while playing with him:

Kyrie in 2 finals with Lebron...28 ppg on 56% TS
Kyrie so far with KD...25 ppg on 59% TS

I'll repeat again...the Nets are not a goat team unless Harden plays. Without him they aren't better than the 2017 Cavs at all, who would have won a title if they didn't face an actual goat team with a second option who has already been established as better than Kyrie.

[3ball]

Because lebron was elevating Kyrie





You can't elevate a player to equal or higher than yourself, otherwise it's you that's getting elevated.

By virtue of being the closer and destroying the league MVP, Kyrie was the lead dog in that series, while Lebron secured rebounds and dribbled (role player shit).






Once Curry stepped into his rightful role as a second option (without the pressures of being the lead dog) he proved that he was better at that role than Kyrie...because he's a better player. We know he's better because he performed way better than Kyrie when they both were the 1st options on their team.

And since we've established Curry > Kyrie (unless Kyrie is playing in his comforting second role while Curry isn't)...it also appears that Kyrie was more elevated by Lebron while playing with him:

Kyrie in 2 finals with Lebron...28 ppg on 56% TS
Kyrie so far with KD...25 ppg on 59% TS





Curry is just a 3-point shooter, while Kyrie can completely dominate the best teams and defenses

There's no comparison, and Curry's elevation under KD-ball only makes my point that he's inferior (needs elevation)

Kyrie is great in any scenario, while Curry is a lottery bum in his prime that chokes in Finals and needs KD to elevate him.






I'll repeat again...the Nets are not a goat team unless Harden plays. Without him they aren't better than the 2017 Cavs at all, who would have won a title if they didn't face an actual goat team with a second option who has already been established as better than Kyrie.





Ultimately, Lebron's teams with Kyrie were never anywhere NEAR what KD has now with Kyrie or previously with Curry.. Players with elite jumpshooting skill simply yield better fits with teammates and higher team ceilings/Finals records

[ShawkFactory]

You can't elevate a player to equal or higher than yourself

Sure you can. If anything that makes you the ultimate elevator.


while Kyrie can completely dominate the best teams and defenses

With ISO scoring. And this is only relevant when he has someone else on his team to do literally everything else (Lebron and now KD) to do literally everything else to get him in position to take over.


Kyrie is great in any scenario, while Curry is a lottery bum in his prime that chokes in Finals and needs KD to elevate him.

What does that have to do with anything :lol

Curry literally got MVP votes for the incredible work he did carrying a really bad team into the playoffs in a really tough conference.


Ultimately, Lebron's teams with Kyrie were never anywhere NEAR what KD has now with Kyrie or previously with Curry
Sure they were. The 2016 and 2017 Cavs were absolutely better than this Nets team without Harden.

They just weren't better than the team KD had with Curry because we've established that Curry works better in the second option role than Kyrie does, because he's a better player. In fact, he works better as a first option than Kyrie does too. He's won a title (almost won 2) and multiple MVPs in that role + two seasons of 67 or more wins. Kyrie has done nothing without Lebron or KD (and actually hasn't done anything with KD yet, and may not if Harden doesn't come back).

[3ball]

Sure you can. If anything that makes you the ultimate elevator.





Kyrie closed the series, so he elevated Lebron and Cleveland to champions

Otoh, you cannot provide a specific example of Lebron elevating Kyrie.

Kyrie was already a star before Lebron arrived - no one ever grew alongside Lebron - the stats prove that






With ISO scoring. And this is only relevant when he has someone else on his team to do literally everything else (Lebron and now KD) to do literally everything else to get him in position to take over.





If a player is iso'ing, then no one is putting them in position... So you aren't making sense again.






Curry literally got MVP votes for the incredible work he did carrying a really bad team into the playoffs in a really tough conference.





bullshit - no great player in their prime can be lottery - you think 18' Lebron would've been lottery in 2005, or would 91' Jordan lose in the 85' 1st Round???

Obviously not.

Btw, Jordan nearly carried a worse cast in 89' to the Finals






Sure they were. The 2016 and 2017 Cavs were absolutely better than this Nets team without Harden.





More nonsense - they never looked anywhere near as good as the Nets look right now - they never ragdolled a team like the Bucks






They just weren't better than the team KD had with Curry because we've established that Curry works better in the second option role than Kyrie does, because he's a better player. In fact, he works better as a first option than Kyrie does too. He's won a title (almost won 2) and multiple MVPs in that role + two seasons of 67 or more wins. Kyrie has done nothing without Lebron or KD (and actually hasn't done anything with KD yet, and may not if Harden doesn't come back).


Lebron's teams with Kyrie were never anywhere near what KD has now with Kyrie or previously with Curry.. Players with elite jumpshooting skill simply yield better teammate fits and higher team ceilings/Finals records

[ShawkFactory]

Otoh, you cannot provide a specific example of Lebron elevating Kyrie.

Can you provide an example of KD elevating him?

The specific example of Bron elevating Kyrie is in the 2016 finals. We have people like you saying he was the lead dog of that team. We'll play by your rules here and say that he was (although everyone knows the actual truth): Is there anyone else that can take a player who is clearly inferior to him overall, and elevate him to being the best in a series while WINNING? That is the ultimate elevation. Magic was able to accomplish something similar with Worthy in '88. Anyone else?


If a player is iso'ing, then no one is putting them in position... So you aren't making sense again.

That's not the "position" I'm talking about. Don't be obtuse. Lebron did the heavy lifting to get his team in a position where one shot can decide a series. Kyrie requires this as a player. Which is why he and Lebron are the ultimate fit.


bullshit - no great player in their prime can be lottery

They made the playoffs in a great conference. That's not lottery..?


More nonsense - they never looked anywhere near as good as the Nets look right now - they never ragdolled a team like the Bucks

Sure they did. But methinks you might be overreacting. It's been two games at home and the Nets are shooting 45% from three (Blake Griffen is shooting 50% ffs) as a team and they Bucks are shooting 25%. If two games is the sample size, the 2016 Cavs had games where they beat the Warriors by 16 and 30 in the finals too (a much better team than these Bucks mind you).


Lebron's teams with Kyrie were never anywhere NEAR what KD has now with Kyrie or previously with Curry.. Players with elite jumpshooting skill simply yield better fits with teammates and higher team ceilings/Finals records

Kyrie has never been better than playing in a finals series with Lebron. How can he be elevated more by KD when his numbers are worse across the board?

[Shooter]

2017 Finals

Curry...27 on 62 TS%
Kyrie...29 on 56 TS%

Curry...126 ORTG, 113 DRTG
Kyrie...111 ORTG, 125 DRTG

Curry...8 rebounds
Kyrie...4 rebounds

Curry...2.2 steals
Kyrie...1 steal

Curry...24.1 avg game score
Kyrie...18.2 avg game score

As we can see, KD's second option completely outplayed Lebron's in the 2017 finals (and this also still ignores the rest of the roster, which again...won't help your "2017 Cavs had an equal cast" argument).

Additionally, the Cavs in 2017 were better than the Nets right now without Harden. They aren't anywhere near a GOAT team unless Harden plays.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExemplaryCheapCapybara-max-1mb.gifhttps://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExemplaryCheapCapybara-max-1mb.gif

[AirBonner]

If Kyrie is so good. Why couldn’t he drag the 4-allstar Celtics to the conference finals? He actually did much worse than Pippen while having more help

[ImKobe]

If Kyrie is so good. Why couldn’t he drag the 4-allstar Celtics to the conference finals? He actually did much worse than Pippen

Kyrie was the only all-star on the Celtics in '19 while Bulls had 3 in '94.

[Shooter]

LBJ collected 3 chips in 5 years against some of the best teams of all time

wHy dIdnT hE wIn?

Uhhh :lol

[StrongLurk]

What is the point of mods on ISH if they constantly let this lunatic run wild?

[And1AllDay]

If Kyrie is so good. Why couldn’t he drag the 4-allstar Celtics to the conference finals? He actually did much worse than Pippen while having more help

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExemplaryCheapCapybara-max-1mb.gifhttps://thumbs.gfycat.com/ExemplaryCheapCapybara-max-1mb.gif

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron had the Curry-killer and therefore a sufficient cast to win in 2017.. How does any all-time great lose with a sidekick like Kyrie?

Unfortunately, Lebron's your-turn-my-turn brand wasted another dominant Finals from Kyrie in 2017

Good stuff

[bullettooth]

https://i.postimg.cc/3Jy0MHfG/lebron-carried-not-given.jpg