Jordan, Bird, Magic and Lebron playoff comp

[colts19]

Thanks to mr4speed for giving me this idea with his post in another thread. He posted the playoff numbers for Magic showing how his winning pct drop once he got out of the weak western conf and played a team from the much stronger eastern conf. Here is a comp btw the 4 iconic players. To arrive at these percentages I added up the games they won and lost on the way to the finals and then added the games they won and lost in the finals.

Name PO not incl finals Finals difference
Jordan 62% 69% +7%
Bird 65% 51% -14%
Magic 76% 47% -29%
Lebron 73% 35% -38%

So what does this tell us? Jordan had the hardest road to the finals and was the only one to have a higher winning pct once he got there.
Bird had the second hardest road to the finals and dropped off by 14% once he got there but still had a winning percentage.

Magic had the easiest road to the finals and dropped off by 29% once he got there despite having the number 1 or 2 greatest player of all time as a teammate for a lot of that time.

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.

[bullettooth]

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.

That's an embarrassing legacy.

[MadDog]

LeBron's finals appearances are exaggerated and weak. Nothing new there.

[dbugz]

libron's top 11, cemented!

[LAmbruh]

Now compare their 16th-18th year playoff %


:yaohappy:

[warriorfan]

Thanks to mr4speed for giving me this idea with his post in another thread. He posted the playoff numbers for Magic showing how his winning pct drop once he got out of the weak western conf and played a team from the much stronger eastern conf. Here is a comp btw the 4 iconic players. To arrive at these percentages I added up the games they won and lost on the way to the finals and then added the games they won and lost in the finals.

Name PO not incl finals Finals difference
Jordan 62% 69% +7%
Bird 65% 51% -14%
Magic 76% 47% -29%
Lebron 73% 35% -38%

So what does this tell us? Jordan had the hardest road to the finals and was the only one to have a higher winning pct once he got there.
Bird had the second hardest road to the finals and dropped off by 14% once he got there but still had a winning percentage.

Magic had the easiest road to the finals and dropped off by 29% once he got there despite having the number 1 or 2 greatest player of all time as a teammate for a lot of that time.

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.

Very interesting.

[SouBeachTalents]

I thought you were gonna factor in opponent W-L % or something, that metrics pretty retarded and doesn’t tell us much of anything, or at least any new information. Regardless of that metric once Jordan started actually winning titles, his Eastern comp was def not tougher than Bird’s. And he by far had the easiest Finals opponents of the 4

[colts19]

Now compare their 16th-18th year playoff %


:yaohappy:

The point was to show how all of Bron's stats are inflated due to playing in the east. As far as 16th thru 18th Bron failed to make the playoffs one year, won one year due to collusion with AD and the bubble format, and lost in the first round the last. Big Whoop.

[colts19]

I thought you were gonna factor in opponent W-L % or something, that metrics pretty retarded and doesn’t tell us much of anything, or at least any new information. Regardless of that metric once Jordan started actually winning titles, his Eastern comp was def not tougher than Birds. And he by far had the easiest Finals opponents of the 4

The main idea was to show that a lot of Magic's and Lebron's stats and winning percentages were due to the weak comp they faced in their conference. I do however agree that when you dig a little deeper MJ comp after the 80's was weaker than Bird's so Bird really had the hardest route to winning the championships.

[Shooter]

Now compare their 16th-18th year playoff %


:yaohappy:

https://i.postimg.cc/tR67gFdH/awawawawawawawa.gif

[kenneth_griffin]

https://i.ibb.co/QMgjvpQ/I3Er05F.jpg


what's lebron up to now like 13 or something lol

[Shooter]

https://i.ibb.co/QMgjvpQ/I3Er05F.jpg


what's lebron up to now like 13 or something lol

Graphics from 5 years ago don't work :lol

You stuck in 2015? :lol

[kenneth_griffin]

Graphics from 5 years ago don't work :lol

You stuck in 2015? :lol

so update it then.. how many does lebron have now

[Airupthere]

Graphics from 5 years ago don't work :lol

You stuck in 2015? :lol

This guy has a point. It's not a fair comparison. Lebron has had a lot more playoffs games since then. Like his other numbers, must have overtaken the number 1 by now by a huge margin.

[1987_Lakers]

so update it then.. how many does lebron have now

He's the only player to defeat a 70+ win team, that's for sure.

[theman93]

Graphics from 5 years ago don't work :lol

You stuck in 2015? :lol

Do you know how many 50 win teams he's beaten since then?

[Shooter]

Do you know how many 50 win teams he's beaten since then?

Duh, it's 18 (LBJ) to 12 (Kobe).

We arent giving Kobe anything before 2003. Those are Shaq's obviously. Good try, good effort.

[kenneth_griffin]

He's the only player to defeat a 70+ win team, that's for sure.

cool. but they rigged the series by suspending draymond green. and the cavs had a better big 3 anyway.

plus the warriors were better the next 2 years with Durant and never won 70

[Shooter]

cool. but they rigged the series by suspending draymond green. and the cavs had a better big 3 anyway.

plus the warriors were better the next 2 years with Durant and never won 70

So who else beat a 70 win team?

[Airupthere]

So who else beat a 70 win team?

Kyrie irving. Put that nail on the coffin when others couldnt.

[kenneth_griffin]

Duh, it's 18 (LBJ) to 12 (Kobe).

We arent giving Kobe anything before 2003. Those are Shaq's obviously. Good try, good effort.

so when kobe was saving the 2000 wcf leading the team back from 15 down in game 7 topping shaq in points, rebounds, assists and blocks he gets no credit?

or leading the Lakers in scoring for the first 3 rounds of 2001 gets him no credit also

or basically matching shaq round for round in 2002 also doesn't count lol


but I bet you count this past lebron bubble buddy ring with Davis leading every series basically till.he got to toy with Jimmy butler

lmao

[Shooter]

so when kobe was saving the 2000 wcf leading the team back from 15 down in game 7 topping shaq in points, rebounds, assists and blocks he gets no credit?

or leading the Lakers in scoring for the first 3 rounds of 2001 gets him no credit also

or basically matching shaq round for round in 2002 also doesn't count lol


but I bet you count this past lebron bubble buddy ring with Davis leading every series basically till.he got to toy with Jimmy butler

lmao

Okay we can sprinkle in 3 more for Kobe, how's that?

18 LBJ
15 Kobe

Better then?

[kenneth_griffin]

So who else beat a 70 win team?

that wasn't a 70 win team. with all the rigging and suspending and injuries to curry, bogut and iggy its probly a 40 win pace team if they go 82 with that kind of consistent bullsh*t lmao

[Shooter]

that wasn't a 70 win team. with all the rigging and suspending and injuries to curry, bogut and iggy its probly a 40 win pace team if they go 82 with that kind of consistent bullsh*t lmao



:roll::roll::roll:

You are so damaged Ken.

[theman93]

Duh, it's 18 (LBJ) to 12 (Kobe).

We arent giving Kobe anything before 2003. Those are Shaq's obviously. Good try, good effort.

What are you talking about you pea-brained idiot?

50+ win teams Lebron eliminated since 2015 -

2016: 2
2017: 2
2018: 2
2019: 0
2020: 0
2021: 0

So he's eliminated 6 more 50+ win teams since 2015 putting him at 13 total.

To put that in perspective he has made the playoffs 15 times. Which means on average he eliminated less than one 50+ win team in the playoffs.

LOL.

[kenneth_griffin]

Okay we can sprinkle in 3 more for Kobe, how's that?

18 LBJ
15 Kobe

Better then?




1998 Sonics ( ok he doesn't deserve this )
2000 Suns ( 21ppg, 45%fgs, 4rpg, 4apg, game winning shot .... legit )
2000 Blazers ( 25ppg, 5rpg, 6apg, 2spg, 2bpg, leading lakers in all categories in game 7.... legit )
2000 Pacers ( 20ppg if you don't count his injured game with 2 points lowering his average... saved game 4. locked down reggie in game 1 forcing him to shoot like 1 for 16. big close out game as well.... legit )


all of 2001, 2002 and 2003 count. he was either 1A or 1B without question


so at most you can erase 1 of kobes 24 teams with 50+ wins eliminated




lebron on the other hand had 7 by 2015 right? i dont know if thats before or after that years playoffs but lebron beat:

2015 Chicago
2015 atlanta
2016 raptors
2016 warriors
2017 raptors
2017 celtics
2018 raptors
2018 celtics
nobody in 2019
nobody in 2020
and nobody in 2021

now obviously the lockout may have cost him 2 in 2020 but if there wasnt a 5 month break or a shortened season lebron and davis flop like they did this season anyway

so 7 plus 8 = 15 ( and it could be 13 if that graph was made after 2015 )

all i know for certain is its not 18 for lebron

you lied

you lose

[kenneth_griffin]

What are you talking about you pea-brained idiot?

50+ win teams Lebron eliminated since 2015 -

2016: 2
2017: 2
2018: 2
2019: 0
2020: 0
2021: 0

So he's eliminated 6 more 50+ win teams since 2015 putting him at 13 total.

To put that in perspective he has made the playoffs 15 times. Which means on average he faced less than one 50+ win team in the playoffs.

LOL.


so it is 13 lol... ouch


still a ways to go to catch his daddies idol

[Airupthere]

so it is 13 lol... ouch


still a ways to go to catch his daddies idol

Got to do more overtime! :oldlol: But, need help from stars while he's at it.

[3ball]

Thanks to mr4speed for giving me this idea with his post in another thread. He posted the playoff numbers for Magic showing how his winning pct drop once he got out of the weak western conf and played a team from the much stronger eastern conf. Here is a comp btw the 4 iconic players. To arrive at these percentages I added up the games they won and lost on the way to the finals and then added the games they won and lost in the finals.

Name PO not incl finals Finals difference
Jordan 62% 69% +7%
Bird 65% 51% -14%
Magic 76% 47% -29%
Lebron 73% 35% -38%

So what does this tell us? Jordan had the hardest road to the finals and was the only one to have a higher winning pct once he got there.
Bird had the second hardest road to the finals and dropped off by 14% once he got there but still had a winning percentage.

Magic had the easiest road to the finals and dropped off by 29% once he got there despite having the number 1 or 2 greatest player of all time as a teammate for a lot of that time.

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/03/9b/76/039b76f457e474fccd92a26f5562393d.gif


Notice how jumpshooters like Bird, Jordan, KD, Kawhi, Kobe or Curry have better Finals records than ball-dominance (lebron/magic)

[Shooter]

What are you talking about you pea-brained idiot?

50+ win teams Lebron eliminated since 2015 -

2016: 2
2017: 2
2018: 2
2019: 0
2020: 0
2021: 0

So he's eliminated 6 more 50+ win teams since 2015 putting him at 13 total.

To put that in perspective he has made the playoffs 15 times. Which means on average he eliminated less than one 50+ win team in the playoffs.

LOL.

You're the peabrain, already forgetting win adjusted pace for normalized 82-games?

Stay in school.

[theman93]

You're the peabrain, already forgetting win adjusted pace for normalized 82-games?

Stay in school.

Oh so now you care about context? :lol :lol :lol

Either way, you somehow counted Lebron eliminating 18 50+ win teams when since 2015 he had only eliminated 7. Which makes you a retard.

[2much_knowledge]

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Kobe and then Jordan had the toughest road to the finals out of the elite players. People like magic and lebron had a cakewalk in the playoffs but tougher finals

[mr4speed]

Thanks to mr4speed for giving me this idea with his post in another thread. He posted the playoff numbers for Magic showing how his winning pct drop once he got out of the weak western conf and played a team from the much stronger eastern conf. Here is a comp btw the 4 iconic players. To arrive at these percentages I added up the games they won and lost on the way to the finals and then added the games they won and lost in the finals.

Name PO not incl finals Finals difference
Jordan 62% 69% +7%
Bird 65% 51% -14%
Magic 76% 47% -29%
Lebron 73% 35% -38%

So what does this tell us? Jordan had the hardest road to the finals and was the only one to have a higher winning pct once he got there.
Bird had the second hardest road to the finals and dropped off by 14% once he got there but still had a winning percentage.

Magic had the easiest road to the finals and dropped off by 29% once he got there despite having the number 1 or 2 greatest player of all time as a teammate for a lot of that time.

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.

Thanks Colts19 for doing the research and putting this together. This collection of data might not "prove" anything but it is interesting and gives a snap shot of each conference and definitely sheds some light into the road to the Finals. The casual fan may think east vs west is no big deal but I think we know ( depending on the era) it can be a big deal. I remember when LA won the chip in 87 and 88 and was the first team to repeat since Boston did it in 68 and 69. I also remember looking at the road LA travelled and even the players ( from the east) commented about this. LA in 87 beat these 3 teams = 37 win Denver, 43 win Golden St. and 39 win Seattle. In 88 LA beat a 31 win San Antonio, 47 win Utah and 53 win Dallas. LA could only play the competition available, no faulting them, but it was coasting compared to the east. LA was rested and healthy and they won fair and square - the only beef Detroit had was the "foul" called on Laimbeer late in game 6. I did my digging years ago to compare the Boston vs LA road to the Finals and was surprised how easily LA defeated their western comp and then had a real battle vs whatever team came out of the east. Magic claimed the 87 team was the best he ever played on, that they could play any style and match up well against any team. I hated to see the 87 Celtics so beat up as I felt "we" fans got cheated out of what would have been a great 7 game Finals series.
Thanks for giving us the Jordan and Lebron "numbers" = a great way to spark some healthy debate!

[kawhileonard2]

Thanks to mr4speed for giving me this idea with his post in another thread. He posted the playoff numbers for Magic showing how his winning pct drop once he got out of the weak western conf and played a team from the much stronger eastern conf. Here is a comp btw the 4 iconic players. To arrive at these percentages I added up the games they won and lost on the way to the finals and then added the games they won and lost in the finals.

Name PO not incl finals Finals difference
Jordan 62% 69% +7%
Bird 65% 51% -14%
Magic 76% 47% -29%
Lebron 73% 35% -38%

So what does this tell us? Jordan had the hardest road to the finals and was the only one to have a higher winning pct once he got there.
Bird had the second hardest road to the finals and dropped off by 14% once he got there but still had a winning percentage.

Magic had the easiest road to the finals and dropped off by 29% once he got there despite having the number 1 or 2 greatest player of all time as a teammate for a lot of that time.

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.

Good stuff

[And1AllDay]

Oh so now you care about context? :lol :lol :lol

Either way, you somehow counted Lebron eliminating 18 50+ win teams when since 2015 he had only eliminated 7. Which makes you a retard.

this guy dont know about normalize 82 win rate seasons :oldlol: stay in school broseph you need to grow your brain game up

[And1AllDay]

You're the peabrain, already forgetting win adjusted pace for normalized 82-games?

Stay in school.

i knew it :oldlol: these dummys

[Axe]

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Kobe and then Jordan had the toughest road to the finals out of the elite players. People like magic and lebron had a cakewalk in the playoffs but tougher finals
Yet the 90s were the softest and lightest era ever

[bullettooth]

Yet the 90s were the softest and lightest era ever

The only people that believe this bullshit are delusional LeBron diehards, desperate to convince themselves they've witnessed the greatest.

[And1AllDay]

jordan playoff comp?

right on time

https://i.postimg.cc/ncMStzLQ/90s-era-lol.png

[3ba11]

.
Nick Wright on the 17' Warriors-Cavs:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2022/nfNb5D.gif


Facing super-teams isn't a big deal if you have a super-team yourself - Lebron had a super-team and preseason favorite from 11-16', which no one else did until 2017.. So cry me a river about his alleged "comp"

Even in 17', Lebron was supposed to be better than Durant while Kyrie/Curry are similar on the Finals level (Kyrie actually destroyed Curry the previous year).

So the Warriors didn't have a big advantage and everyone knew this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AjQR259CrwQ&t=01m04s


But Durant ended up outplaying Lebron in those Finals and going off - if Lebron could've slowed him down and outplayed him, it would've been a different series and the Cavs' probably wear them down again like 2016.

[John8204]

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Kobe and then Jordan had the toughest road to the finals out of the elite players. People like magic and lebron had a cakewalk in the playoffs but tougher finals

Funny how we are going by wins but let's look at the players each person beat.

Jordan - Magic, Stockton, Barkley, Shaq, Malone, Ewing, Isiah, Reggie, Payton, Wilkins, Drexler, Mullin, Mourning, Webber

Wilt - Bill, Kareem, Oscar, Frazier, Reed, Thurmond, Lucas, Monroe, Debuschere

Lebron - Duncan, Curry, Durant, KG, Kwahi, Harden, Jokic, Dame, Westbrook, Klay, McGrady, Pierce, Carmello, Allen, Butler, Parker, Manu, George, Draymond

Bird - Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Moses, Hakeem, Dr. J, Gervin, Archibald, Worthy, Wilkins, Cowens, Moncrief, Gilmore, King, Sampson

Kareem - Wilt, Bird, West, Stockton, Dr. J, Balor, Malone, Gervin, Thurmond, Isiah, McHale, Walton, Unseld, English, Rodman, Drexler, Dantley, Monroe, Mullin, Parish, Issel

Bill - Wilt, Oscar, West, Pettit, Baylor, Frazier, Thurmond, Reed, Arizin, Schayes, Greer, DeBuscheere

Magic - Bird, Stockton. Dr J, Gervin, Malone, Isiah, McHale, Walton, Rodman, English, Mullin, Dantley, Parish, Issel

Mikan - Schayes, Zaslovsky, Davies, Foust, Gallatin

Kobe - Duncan, KG, Durant, Kidd, Iverson, Robinson, Harden, Reggie, Nash, Pippen, Westbrook, Pierce, Carmello, Mullin, Allen, Mutombo, Howard, Hill, Ming, Webber, Rondo

Duncan - Lebron, Kobe, Dirk, Shaq, KG, Iverson, Nash. Wade, Ewing, Allen, Carmello

West - Kareem, Oscar, Frazier, Reed, Lucas, Monroe, Debuschere

Oscar - Wilt, West, Baylor, Thurmond, Unseld

Moses - Kareem, Magic, Worthy, Cowens, McAdoo, Moncrief, King, Lanier

Hakeem - Stockton, Barkley, Shaq, Malone, Ewing, Drexler,

If we are basing this on talent from the four in the topic

1. Bird
2. James
3. Jordan
4. Magic

But the top three are really Kareem, Kobe, and Bird

[theman93]

Looks like you left Dumars, Rodman, Worthy and Hardaway off a certain somebody’s list. I wonder who it is?

[John8204]

I don't think I put Dumars on any of the lists...Rodman and Worthy were oversites though because I started with Jordan Hardaway's not a HOF or a top 75 guy

[theman93]

I don't think I put Dumars on any of the lists...Rodman and Worthy were oversites though because I started with Jordan Hardaway's not a HOF or a top 75 guy

Mhm.

Tim Hardaway isn't in the HOF? :lol

What about Mutombo? Was he also an oversight? :lol

You don't know MJ's competition at all and yet you continuously call it weak. Ignorance is bliss isn't it? Lmao

[TheGoatest]

jordon's playoff "competition" couldn't beat a team whose 2nd leading scorer in the playoffs averaged 13.8 points on .376 shooting in the season they didn't have to face the "mighty" jordon, who according to the alts kept them away from winning championships. :oldlol:

This is a fact. Facts are the enemies of jordon extremist alts.

[John8204]

Mhm.

Tim Hardaway isn't in the HOF? :lol

What about Mutombo? Was he also an oversight? :lol

You don't know MJ's competition at all and yet you continuously call it weak. Ignorance is bliss isn't it? Lmao

Tim or Penny? It depends on where you want to draw the line of talent.

[Johnny32]

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Kobe and then Jordan had the toughest road to the finals out of the elite players. People like magic and lebron had a cakewalk in the playoffs but tougher finals

1998 bulls "tough road" to the finals

1st rd vs nets (leading scorer in playoffs was sherman douglas)
2nd rd vs hornets (leading scorer in playoffs was glen rice)
conference finals vs pacers (leading scorer in playoffs was reggie miller)

legenius.

[theman93]

Tim or Penny? It depends on where you want to draw the line of talent.

Can you read? I said Tim Hardaway. Not Penny Hardaway. You drew the line of talent at HOF/Top 75 so I’m following your criteria. Now scurry along and go fix your list. You’re lucky I’m here to educate you.

[Johnny32]

why is tim hardaway in the hof exactly? must have a very strong resume since it only took him 20 yrs to get in.

[theman93]

why is tim hardaway in the hof exactly? must have a very strong resume since it only took him 20 yrs to get in.

hurrrrr HOF is your criteria durrrrrrrrr

[theman93]

Johnny32/TheGoatest/Shooter/And1AllDay is so clueless about MJ's competition he could only list 14 of the 22 HOFers Jordan beat in the playoffs.

https://c.tenor.com/w76ddO-HZ08AAAAC/dr-disrespect-laugh.gif

[Johnny32]

hurrrrr HOF is your criteria durrrrrrrrr

this fat kid is so delirious from choking on lecock all day he doesn't know who he's typing to. then he tried to cover it up with a follow up post claiming like 20 different people are all alt's. lol so desperately pathetic and embarrassing.

[theman93]

Deflecting because you're clueless about MJ's competition even though you talk about it like you're an expert :roll:

Exposed.

Next.

[Johnny32]

why is tim hardaway in the hof exactly? must have a very strong resume since it only took him 20 yrs to get in.

anyone know?

[Johnny32]

1991 bulls "tough road" to the finals

1st rd vs nyk and leading playoff scorer kiki vandeweghe
2nd rd vs phi led by fat boy chuck barkley
conference finals vs det led by a crippled isiah thomas who would never win another playoff series again

[theman93]

1991 bulls "tough road" to the finals

1st rd vs nyk and leading playoff scorer kiki vandeweghe
2nd rd vs phi led by fat boy chuck barkley
conference finals vs det led by a crippled isiah thomas who would never win another playoff series again

Harder road than Lebron. See the fact sheet below:


Thanks to mr4speed for giving me this idea with his post in another thread. He posted the playoff numbers for Magic showing how his winning pct drop once he got out of the weak western conf and played a team from the much stronger eastern conf. Here is a comp btw the 4 iconic players. To arrive at these percentages I added up the games they won and lost on the way to the finals and then added the games they won and lost in the finals.

Name PO not incl finals Finals difference
Jordan 62% 69% +7%
Bird 65% 51% -14%
Magic 76% 47% -29%
Lebron 73% 35% -38%

So what does this tell us? Jordan had the hardest road to the finals and was the only one to have a higher winning pct once he got there.
Bird had the second hardest road to the finals and dropped off by 14% once he got there but still had a winning percentage.

Magic had the easiest road to the finals and dropped off by 29% once he got there despite having the number 1 or 2 greatest player of all time as a teammate for a lot of that time.

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.

[Round Mound]

Larry Bird: Best Offensive Team Player Ever. Bill Russell: Best Defensive Team Player Ever.

[Axe]

Harder road than Lebron. See the fact sheet below:
In 1994 the same bulls team sans jordan won 55 games and even made it to the ecsf, where they took the eventual eastern champs knicks to seven games. They were just a win shy of making the ecf, coach.

[kawhileonard2]

1991 bulls "tough road" to the finals

1st rd vs nyk and leading playoff scorer kiki vandeweghe
2nd rd vs phi led by fat boy chuck barkley
conference finals vs det led by a crippled isiah thomas who would never win another playoff series again

Ewing
Barkley
Isiah

All top 25 players all time.

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron lost to Dwight Howard with HCA. Lebron also lost to Carlos Arroyo in the Olympics and then also to Jason Terry. Kobe won 3 titles with Shaq, Wade won 1 title with Shaq, Lebron got to round 2 with Shaq and lost with HCA. Chauncey Billups won a title with Ben Wallace, Lebron lost with HCA with Ben Wallace.

[theman93]

Ewing
Barkley
Isiah

All top 25 players all time.

+Rodman and Dumars

[RogueBorg]

You don't know MJ's competition at all and yet you continuously call it weak. Ignorance is bliss isn't it? Lmao

John8205's mom should take away his internet access.

[RogueBorg]

why is tim hardaway in the hof exactly? must have a very strong resume since it only took him 20 yrs to get in.

It took so long because of some comments he made years back.

[RogueBorg]

In 1994 the same bulls team sans jordan won 55 games and even made it to the ecsf, where they took the eventual eastern champs knicks to seven games. They were just a win shy of making the ecf, coach.

Only you loser Lebronstans think losing is a positive accomplishment. Did the Bulls win the chip in '94 chief? That's the bottom line.

[ClipperRevival]

Thanks to mr4speed for giving me this idea with his post in another thread. He posted the playoff numbers for Magic showing how his winning pct drop once he got out of the weak western conf and played a team from the much stronger eastern conf. Here is a comp btw the 4 iconic players. To arrive at these percentages I added up the games they won and lost on the way to the finals and then added the games they won and lost in the finals.

Name PO not incl finals Finals difference
Jordan 62% 69% +7%
Bird 65% 51% -14%
Magic 76% 47% -29%
Lebron 73% 35% -38%

So what does this tell us? Jordan had the hardest road to the finals and was the only one to have a higher winning pct once he got there.
Bird had the second hardest road to the finals and dropped off by 14% once he got there but still had a winning percentage.

Magic had the easiest road to the finals and dropped off by 29% once he got there despite having the number 1 or 2 greatest player of all time as a teammate for a lot of that time.

Then there is Lebron. Only counting the years he played in the east. Had the second easiest road to the finals and still had the biggest drop off at -38% despite playing in the weak east and forming super teams.

https://c.tenor.com/fWg9gm1CrdYAAAAM/lebron-james-crying.gif

[Axe]

Only you loser Lebronstans think losing is a positive accomplishment. Did the Bulls win the chip in '94 chief? That's the bottom line.
Oh look who's butthurt. :oldlol:

Doesn't matter if they win it all or not but tell me, why didn't the goat have any winning seasons without scottie pippen by his side? Like it or not it's going to be lampshaded every now and then. :confusedshrug:

[3ba11]

Oh look who's butthurt. :oldlol:

Doesn't matter if they win it all or not but tell me, why didn't the goat have any winning seasons without scottie pippen by his side? Like it or not it's going to be lampshaded every now and then. :confusedshrug:


You're just a dumbass that is taking advantage of a timing coincidence - aka the only time Jordan didn't have Pippen was the first few years of his career when nearly EVERYONE loses.. Curry, Lebron, Durant and Giannis didn't win any playoff series in their first few years either.

And Pippen averaged 7 ppg in 88' - you're saying this was the key and not Jordan's 35/6/6/DPOY (the goat season).. that's why no one agrees with you






Doesn't matter if they win it all or not but tell me, why didn't the goat have any winning seasons without scottie pippen by his side? Like it or not it's going to be lampshaded every now and then. :confusedshrug:


A three-peat was required first for the 55 to happen

That's the historical record, not opinion

So the 55 wins was Jordan's accomplishment - that's how much he "elevated" his teammates in response to critics that said he was inferior to Magic/Bird for that very reason.

He worked with his team to learn superior basketball every year until the team had developed the best brand of ball in the league, thus needing minimal talent

Nonetheless, talent is still needed to win in the NBA, so after the honeymoon period was over in the 94' Playoffs (2nd Round), the Bulls were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned - so a 3-peat dynasty was destroyed to lottery in less than 18 months.. The most remarkable thing in history is that MJ actually 3-peated again after returning - it confirmed that prime MJ was literally worth a guaranteed 3-peat

[Axe]

You're just a dumbass that is taking advantage of a timing coincidence - aka the only time Jordan didn't have Pippen was the first few years of his career when nearly EVERYONE loses.. Curry, Lebron, Durant and Giannis didn't win any playoff series in their first few years either.

And Pippen averaged 7 ppg in 88' - you're saying this was the key and not Jordan's 35/6/6/DPOY (the goat season).. that's why no one agrees with you






A three-peat was required first for the 55 to happen

That's the historical record, not opinion

So the 55 wins was Jordan's accomplishment - that's how much he "elevated" his teammates in response to critics that said he was inferior to Magic/Bird for that very reason.

He worked with his team to learn superior basketball every year until the team had developed the best brand of ball in the league, thus needing minimal talent

Nonetheless, talent is still needed to win in the NBA, so after the honeymoon period was over in the 94' Playoffs (2nd Round), the Bulls were borderline lottery in 95' before MJ returned - so a 3-peat dynasty was destroyed to lottery in less than 18 months.. The most remarkable thing in history is that MJ actually 3-peated again after returning - it confirmed that prime MJ was literally worth a guaranteed 3-peat
And you're a dumbass psycho for spamming too much gibberish about kong. Even if many state that he's just #2 in the consensus all-time goat rankings, it doesn't take away the fact that you're talking about him all the time.

[3ba11]

And you're a dumbass psycho for spamming too much gibberish about kong. Even if many state that he's just #2 in the consensus all-time goat rankings, it doesn't take away the fact that you're talking about him all the time.


He's a fraud and not number 2 - he never learned how to win and is just a talent-based winner, team-hopper

He never learned the teammate development and fits required to win organically

His simpleton Luka-style skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win

tldr: he sucks at basketball compared to Bird or MJ

People obsess over fraud because it's good to be enlightened

[Axe]

Or maybe because other all-time greats are irrelevant anymore. :kobe: