It's weird how Kobe is thought of this super clutch performer, but his Finals...

[1987_Lakers]

Efficiency numbers are pretty underwhelming.

2000 - 15.6 ppg | 39 fg% (Don't really fault Kobe here, he got injured and not in his offensive prime)
2001 - 24 ppg | 41.5 fg% | 50 TS%
2002 - 27 ppg | 51 fg% | 62 TS% (very efficient)
2004 - 23 ppg | 38 fg% | 46 TS%
2008 - 26 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 50.5 TS%
2009 - 32 ppg | 43 fg% | 52.5 TS%
2010 - 29 ppg | 40.1 fg% | 52.8 TS%

For comparison sake, regular season Kobe from 2001-2010 shot 45.6 fg% and 56 TS%. Kobe's efficiency took a big dip in every Finals he played in excluding 2002.

As a laker fan who pretty much watched every laker game, his most memorable moments to me were always in the WCF, that's when he performed the best, but damn he was so underwhelming in the Finals, game 7 vs Boston in 2010 was a horrific performance, to be honest we should have lost that game, to this day I don't know how we pulled that off with Kobe playing so bad.

[Kblaze8855]

So low total shooting in games you mostly won without any additional data on when the shots were taken is what you’re determining clutch ability by?

[MadDog]

You could say Kobe didn't play at his "normal standard" in the finals. Or that he wasn't the best finals performer.

But not seeing the correlation between series play and clutch ability.

[tontoz]

Kobe's problem in the clutch was the same as his problem the rest of the game. He had bad shot selection. He took way too many long, contested jumpers for someone who wasn't an elite shooter.

There are guys now who can take the same bad shots and actually make them at a good rate. Kobe couldn't.

In the clutch it was magnified because he was even more determined to take the shot to be the hero. His chucking made him hard to watch for me at times.

[1987_Lakers]

So low total shooting in games you mostly won without any additional data on when the shots were taken is what you’re determining clutch ability by?

Being a big game performer in the biggest stage to me is considered clutch. It's just odd to me how Kobe is looked as this player with a killer instinct, black mamba mentality, but it's obvious his inflated ego usually got him in trouble in those big games.

[AirBonner]

Kobe's problem in the clutch was the same as his problem the rest of the game. He had bad shot selection. He took way too many long, contested jumpers for someone who wasn't an elite shooter.

There are guys now who can take the same bad shots and actually make them at a good rate. Kobe couldn't.

In the clutch it was magnified because he was even more determined to take the shot to be the hero. His chucking made him hard to watch for me at times.

Agree. He wanted to play like Durant and just shoot over people but he wasn’t that tall

[kenneth_griffin]

kobes percentages are low because he takes more impossible clutch shots than anyone. when its a good look he knocks it down. but he took all of the lakers desperation shots while guys like lebron pass those up

especially when his teams are down 1 instead of tied so theres no pressure to fail


i remember making a game winning shots list a long time ago and kobe has like 35 or something. even jordan only has like 28


so hes always been that guy. hes never shy'd away and thats why his percentage is lower than a guy that plays it safe

[AirBonner]

kobes percentages are low because he takes more impossible clutch shots than anyone. when its a good look he knocks it down. but he took all of the lakers desperation shots while guys like lebron pass those up

especially when his teams are down 1 instead of tied so theres no pressure to fail
The Kobe assist!

[kenneth_griffin]

put anyone else in kobes shoes and ask them to shoot 35 foot leaning out of bounds over 3 guys desperation shots and see if they can even keep their percentage above 20% let alone 35/40% or whatever kobe is in those situations

[1987_Lakers]

kobes percentages are low because he takes more impossible clutch shots than anyone. when its a good look he knocks it down. but he took all of the lakers desperation shots while guys like lebron pass those up

especially when his teams are down 1 instead of tied so theres no pressure to fail


i remember making a game winning shots list a long time ago and kobe has like 35 or something. even jordan only has like 28


so hes always been that guy. hes never shy'd away and thats why his percentage is lower than a guy that plays it safe

I'm sorry, but 2004 and game 7 of 2010 were inexcusable, he went into chucking mode in 2004 despite the fact that Shaq was being guarded one on one all series and dominating, he simply didn't get enough touches.

[3ball]

Individual efficiency is an overrated driver of winning

When Kobe takes a lot of shots, it controls the game and prevents the opponent from controlling the flow.

The defense gets worn down defending him and battling for rebounds of his misses, which takes away from their offense.

Kobe's volume and attack won the attrition battle, so opponents were worn down and weren't fresher on offense than the Lakers

[SouBeachTalents]

His elimination game performances were even worse. For having the rep of being Jordan like in the clutch Kobe was often mediocre to bad in the Finals and when facing elimination, and his teammates were the ones always hitting the big shots

[1987_Lakers]

Individual efficiency is an overrated driver of winning

When Kobe takes a lot of shots, the defense gets worn down defending him and battling for rebounds of his misses, which takes away from their offense.

Kobe's volume and attack won the attrition battle, so opponents were worn down and weren't fresher on offense than the Lakers

If anything it makes your offense more predictable and you end the possession with 0 points, so what you are saying makes zero sense whatsoever. You are basically rewarding a player for missing shots.

[3ball]

His elimination game performances were even worse. For having the rep of being Jordan like in the clutch Kobe was often mediocre to bad in the Finals and when facing elimination, and his teammates were the ones always hitting the big shots


Why not just post Kobe's clutch stats rather than post an inaccurate opinion based on your faulty memory lol?

I'll do it...

Last 5 within 5 - these stats are available

[ImKobe]

He was injured in 2000 and 2004, not sure why you're listing those averages :kobe: .

2001 - 25/8/6 50.1%TS, league average 51.8%TS
2002 - 27/6/5 62.3%TS, league average 52.0%TS
2008 - 26/5/5 50.5%TS, league average 54.0%TS
2009 - 32/7/6 52.5%TS, league average 54.4%TS
2010 - 29/8/4 52.8%TS, league average 54.3%TS

2008 is the only real "bad" Finals where a healthy Kobe shot more than 2% below league average efficiency while playing elite D and running the offense against one of the best defenses of that decade, who held Lebron to 48%TS with 5.2 TOs that same Playoff run. I wouldn't put much stock into the 00-02 runs anyways, the real Finals were played in the West Semis/Finals with Lakers, Spurs & Kings being the true title contenders while the East had none.

[RRR3]

Why not just post Kobe's clutch stats rather than post an inaccurate opinion based on your faulty memory lol?

I'll do it...

Last 5 within 5 - these stats are available
All minutes of the finals are clutch time basically lol. Unless it’s a massive blowout.

[DoctorP]

Kobe super clutch? Nope

That would be Jordan

[SouBeachTalents]

Why not just post Kobe's clutch stats rather than post an inaccurate opinion based on your faulty memory lol?

I'll do it...

Last 5 within 5 - these stats are available
Faulty memory? It's a fact Kobe's play was subpar in the Finals and especially in elimination games. And that his teammates hit all the big shots in the playoffs. How you perform in big playoff games and end of game situations is much more important to me than an arbitrary last 5 within 5 metric

[1987_Lakers]

He was injured in 2000 and 2004, not sure why you're listing those averages :kobe: .

2001 - 25/8/6 50.1%TS, league average 51.8%TS
2002 - 27/6/5 62.3%TS, league average 52.0%TS
2008 - 26/5/5 50.5%TS, league average 54.0%TS
2009 - 32/7/6 52.5%TS, league average 54.4%TS
2010 - 29/8/4 52.8%TS, league average 54.3%TS

2008 is the only real "bad" Finals where a healthy Kobe shot more than 2% below league average efficiency while playing elite D and running the offense against one of the best defenses of that decade, who held Lebron to 48%TS with 5.2 TOs that same Playoff run. I wouldn't put much stock into the 00-02 runs anyways, the real Finals were played in the West Semis/Finals with Lakers, Spurs & Kings being the true title contenders while the East had none.

So he shot below league average TS% in every Finals except 2002? Yikes.

[kenneth_griffin]

I'm sorry, but 2004 and game 7 of 2010 were inexcusable, he went into chucking mode in 2004 despite the fact that Shaq was being guarded one on one all series and dominating, he simply didn't get enough touches.


i mean.. the guy was playing with a surgically repaired shoulder and knee in 2004 that totally took every ounce of athleticism away and in 2010 the guy played with a broken index finger that had a literal solid cast over it.. plus his knee was messed up again ( hence the 2011 nightmare season )

i'm surprised he won 1 out of those 2 finals

plus he did make up for that game 7 doing other things. and he took over when it mattered


last 15 minutes of the 2010 NBA finals:

3:09 left in 3rd - Kobe 2 point shot ( boston 56 - lakers 49 )
2:37 left in 3rd - Gasol 2 free throws ( boston 56 - lakers 51 )
2:21 left in 3rd - Kobe 11th rebound
1:10 left in 3rd - Odom 2 point layup off kobe pass ( boston 57 - lakers 53 )
11:43 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 57 - lakers 55 )
8:46 left in 4th - Kobe 3 points, fouled on shot ( boston 59 - lakers 58 )
7:29 left in 4th - Artest 3 point play ( boston 61 - lakers 61 )
6:13 left in 4th - fisher 3 pointer ( boston 64 - lakers 64 )
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 12th rebound
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points. fouled on shot ( boston 64 - Lakers 66 )
5:36 left in 4th - Kobe 13th rebound
5:23 left in 4th - Kobe 2 point jumpshot ( boston 64 - Lakers 68 )
5:01 left in 4th - Kobe 14th rebound
4:39 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 64 - lakers 70 )
4:20 left in 4th - Kobe 15th rebound
3:21 left in 4th - Kobe 1 point, fouled on dunk attempt ( boston 66 - lakers 71 )
2:47 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 68 - lakers 73 )
2:20 left in 4th - loose ball foul Gasol 1 free throw ( boston 68 - lakers 74 )
1:30 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 70 - lakers 76 )
1:01 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Artests 3 pointer ( Boston 73 - Lakers 79 )
0:25 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points, fouled on drive attempt ( boston 76 - lakers 81 )
0:11 left in 4th - intentional foul on vujacic ( boston 79 - lakers 83 )




oh yeah and the 2004 lakers missed karl malone a ton. had he not gotten injured they likely run a more fluid offense. payton shot like 20% that series too and was of no help. it was literally just kobe and shaq vs billups, rip, sheed and big ben..

larry brown said he would let shaq get his with single coverage and only double kobe whenever he put the ball on the floor

[SouBeachTalents]

Lmao, the same guys who have been clowning LeBron for losing to the Suns are now bringing out the injury excuse to defend every single bad Kobe performance :lol Hypocrisy at it's finest

[3ball]

.
Down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5)


2000 Finals

Kobe... 8.0 ppg (record)
Shaq... 5.1 ppg


2002 WCF

Kobe leads Lakers (3.2 ppg for Kobe... 2.8 for Shaq... 3.8 for Bibby)


2009 Playoffs

1. Kobe....... 47 pts
2. Pierce..... 47 pts


2010 Playoffs

1. Kobe....... 47 pts
2. Pierce..... 22 pts
3. Pau.......... 22 pts


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals

[kenneth_griffin]

Lmao, the same guys who have been clowning LeBron for losing to the Suns are now bringing out the injury excuse to defend every single bad Kobe performance :lol Hypocrisy at it's finest



kobe missed one game with a sprained ankle in the 2000 finals and he missed zero games in 2010 when he had a pulled groin.. lebrons been recovering from that sh*t for like a month or 2. how much time does this b*tch need lmao

[MadDog]

Faulty memory? It's a fact Kobe's play was subpar in the Finals and especially in elimination games. And that his teammates hit all the big shots in the playoffs. How you perform in big playoff games and end of game situations is much more important to me than an arbitrary last 5 within 5 metric

Sure but you and the OP are reinventing definitions of clutch. There's a reason CLUTCH criteria exists, and the stuff you're mentioning is separated. In different categories. Makes no sense someone would consider FULL series play in the finals "clutch" but not the playoffs.

[scuzzy]

You know the drill:


"he was injured, or coming off an injury from last season, or never returned fully from the injury when ________"


I remember how they tried to dust off his ugly Olympic play in 2008 when Dwade/Lebron was putting on a clinic outplaying a lousy Prime 12be. "SMH He didn't have enough time off to rest compete" in a 8 game tournament after getting blown out by Paul Pierce 50 days earlier. Then 10 minutes of the final game and it flipped to he played great and carried team USA :lol


Meanwhile, KD hasn't missed a f*cking beat :applause:

[3ball]

Sure but you and the OP are reinventing definitions of clutch. There's a reason CLUTCH criteria exists, and the stuff you're mentioning is separated. In different categories. Makes no sense someone would consider full series play in the finals is "clutch" but the playoffs aren't.


Down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5)


2009 Playoffs

1. Kobe....... 47 pts
2. Pierce..... 47 pts


2010 Playoffs

1. Kobe....... 47 pts.... :lebronamazed:
2. Pierce..... 22 pts
3. Pau.......... 22 pts


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals

[1987_Lakers]

i mean.. the guy was playing with a surgically repaired shoulder and knee in 2004 that totally took every ounce of athleticism away and in 2010 the guy played with a broken index finger that had a literal solid cast over it.. plus his knee was messed up again ( hence the 2011 nightmare season )

i'm surprised he won 1 out of those 2 finals

plus he did make up for that game 7 doing other things. and he took over when it mattered


last 15 minutes of the 2010 NBA finals:

3:09 left in 3rd - Kobe 2 point shot ( boston 56 - lakers 49 )
2:37 left in 3rd - Gasol 2 free throws ( boston 56 - lakers 51 )
2:21 left in 3rd - Kobe 11th rebound
1:10 left in 3rd - Odom 2 point layup off kobe pass ( boston 57 - lakers 53 )
11:43 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 57 - lakers 55 )
8:46 left in 4th - Kobe 3 points, fouled on shot ( boston 59 - lakers 58 )
7:29 left in 4th - Artest 3 point play ( boston 61 - lakers 61 )
6:13 left in 4th - fisher 3 pointer ( boston 64 - lakers 64 )
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 12th rebound
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points. fouled on shot ( boston 64 - Lakers 66 )
5:36 left in 4th - Kobe 13th rebound
5:23 left in 4th - Kobe 2 point jumpshot ( boston 64 - Lakers 68 )
5:01 left in 4th - Kobe 14th rebound
4:39 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 64 - lakers 70 )
4:20 left in 4th - Kobe 15th rebound
3:21 left in 4th - Kobe 1 point, fouled on dunk attempt ( boston 66 - lakers 71 )
2:47 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 68 - lakers 73 )
2:20 left in 4th - loose ball foul Gasol 1 free throw ( boston 68 - lakers 74 )
1:30 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 70 - lakers 76 )
1:01 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Artests 3 pointer ( Boston 73 - Lakers 79 )
0:25 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points, fouled on drive attempt ( boston 76 - lakers 81 )
0:11 left in 4th - intentional foul on vujacic ( boston 79 - lakers 83 )




oh yeah and the 2004 lakers missed karl malone a ton. had he not gotten injured they likely run a more fluid offense. payton shot like 20% that series too and was of no help. it was literally just kobe and shaq vs billups, rip, sheed and big ben..

larry brown said he would let shaq get his with single coverage and only double kobe whenever he put the ball on the floor

If Kobe's shoulder was really bothering him and if he was being double teamed why in the world was Kobe taking 6 more shots per game than Shaq? Low IQ Kobe. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.
10/20 FG(50%FG)
4/5 FT(80%)
56.4%TS
Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
TO per 36: 1.5 TO

Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.
28/63 (44.4%FG)
53% TS.
Assists per 36: 3.6
TO per 36: 1.08

[kenneth_griffin]

nba finals game 2

https://theundefeated.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/GettyImages-51548853.jpg


nba finals game 4

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/01/26/PIND/b4a1ec47-d979-4f53-a5fe-ec50ca77a510-saldc5-5ajlt6nkh00zdteblk3_original.jpg



the difference between kobe and lebron in a nutshell

[Overdrive]

put anyone else in kobes shoes and ask them to shoot 35 foot leaning out of bounds over 3 guys desperation shots and see if they can even keep their percentage above 20% let alone 35/40% or whatever kobe is in those situations

Why woild anyone shoot over 3 guys? This means two are open. Spare your these two guys can't shoot comment. The defense still has to honor them and open guys throw defenses off no matter what.

[kenneth_griffin]

If Kobe's shoulder was really bothering him and if he was being double teamed why in the world was Kobe taking 6 more shots per game than Shaq? Low IQ Kobe. :oldlol:


because they full pressed the lakers and took 10-15 seconds off the clock before they could even get into their half court offense ... kobe and shaq talk about it in their 1 on 1 sit down interview. kobe admits they werent ready for it. a lot of the time kobe had to force up something just so the lakers could get a look

[MadDog]

Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.
10/20 FG(50%FG)
4/5 FT(80%)
56.4%TS
Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
TO per 36: 1.5 TO

Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.
28/63 (44.4%FG)
53% TS.
Assists per 36: 3.6
TO per 36: 1.08

How is THAT not clutch? :confusedshrug:

[SouBeachTalents]

Sure but you and the OP are reinventing definitions of clutch. There's a reason CLUTCH criteria exists, and the stuff you're mentioning is separated. In different categories. Makes no sense someone would consider full series play in the finals is "clutch" but the playoffs aren't.
I'd agree with that, and Kobe had many superstar playoff runs and excellent playoff series. But his performance in what I consider to be the truly clutch situations, elimination games and end of game scenarios does not hold up to snuff to being truly clutch or on Jordan's level like his rep would indicate

[kenneth_griffin]

Why woild anyone shoot over 3 guys? This means two are open. Spare your these two guys can't shoot comment. The defense still has to honor them and open guys throw defenses off no matter what.

because in desperation moments its usually an inbound play with very little time on the clock or its a 2 possession game with under a minute left and you gotta go quick



lebron just pads his useless layups and trades 2 points when hes about to lose. or he walks off the court early

[scuzzy]

Sure but you and the OP are reinventing definitions of clutch. There's a reason CLUTCH criteria exists, and the stuff you're mentioning is separated. In different categories. Makes no sense someone would consider FULL series play in the finals "clutch" but the not the playoffs.
Clutch criteria is subjective.

You can flip and flop the parameters and a top 10 clutch player within the minutes/score/within +/- can immediately drop to a Top 300

[kenneth_griffin]

I'd agree with that, and Kobe had many superstar playoff runs and excellent playoff series. But his performance in what I consider to be the truly clutch situations, elimination games and end of game scenarios does not hold up to snuff to being truly clutch or on Jordan's level like his rep would indicate



i dunno i remember a ton of big moments. theres countless half hour long youtube videos if you wanna take a look at them. but we all know you nitwit lebron fans just like summarizing a career with analytic data off of basketball reference and totally ignoring context

[1987_Lakers]

because they full pressed the lakers and took 10-15 seconds off the clock before they could even get into their half court offense ... kobe and shaq talk about it in their 1 on 1 sit down interview. kobe admits they werent ready for it. a lot of the time kobe had to force up something just so the lakers could get a look

Bullshit, look how many times Kobe took a shot with plenty of time on the shot clock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fAcGwRtYWI

[ImKobe]

If Kobe's shoulder was really bothering him and if he was being double teamed why in the world was Kobe taking 6 more shots per game than Shaq? Low IQ Kobe. :oldlol:

Shaq shot more in the Finals than he had all year, he was fat and aging and out of shape in '04 (couldn't guard the P&R), of course a Kobe hater would overlook that, and the fact that Shaq got into foul trouble in some of these games and that Kobe won us our only game when he took the most shots vs. we got blown out by 20 when he only shot it 13 times. It's not like he was thinking shoot first in all these games, the Lakers tried everything, but everyone sucked outside of Shaq & Kobe, and Malone had his knee injury.

And go look at his 4th quarter numbers in that series, he was decent

Game 4, tied going into the 4th

Shaq - 5/6 FG 3/6 FT 13 pts
Kobe - 3/6 FG 2/2 FT 8 pts

Lakers lose by 8

So Shaq got more scoring opportunities (same FGA, 3x the FTA) and Kobe was efficient and they still lost the quarter 24 - 32 because they couldn't guard the Pistons.
This is where Lakers go down 1 - 3 with Game 5 @DET and the series is basically over.

Game 5

Kobe 24/3/4 7/21 FG 10/11 FT 46.4%TS 45 minutes
Shaq 20/8/1 7/13 FG 6/16 FT 49.9%TS 35 minutes

Shaq gets into foul trouble in the first half so Kobe takes 12 FGA, 2nd half Shaq gets 6 FGA 12 FTA to Kobe's 9 FGA 4 FTA but the Lakers fall down 24 by the end of the 3rd and the series is over. Kobe's FG% looks bad but him and Shaq were both below average at scoring in the elimination game and they got destroyed on the defensive end once again, allowing 100 pts (which was A LOT for 2004).

[SouBeachTalents]

i dunno i remember a ton of big moments. theres countless half hour long youtube videos if you wanna take a look at them. but we all know you nitwit lebron fans just like summarizing a career with analytic data off of basketball reference and totally ignoring context
I literally haven't posted any analytic data, I'm going off how the games went down. And no shit Kobe's had big moments and hit big buckets in the playoffs, but he never hit the truly significant ones, those were made by Horry, Fisher, Gasol & Artest

[3ball]

I literally haven't posted any analytic data, I'm going off how the games actually went down. No shit Kobe's had big moments and hit big buckets in the playoffs, but he never hit the truly significant ones, those were made by Horry, Fisher, Gasol & Artest


Lebron never hit any big shots in the Finals either

Only MJ did

[MadDog]

I'd agree with that, and Kobe had many superstar playoff runs and excellent playoff series. But his performance in what I consider to be the truly clutch situations, elimination games and end of game scenarios does not hold up to snuff to being truly clutch or on Jordan's level like his rep would indicate

There's definitely a lot of context involved. I use the parameters 82 games and NBA.com do. Last 5 minutes of the game. Last 2 minutes. Last 24 seconds. Game-Winners etc. I can get on board with elimination games but they're also situational. Yeah staving off elimination is great, but is it really clutch if your team is blowing out the opponent?


Clutch criteria is subjective.

You can flip and flop the parameters and a top 10 clutch player within the minutes/score/within +/- can immediately drop to a Top 300

That's true.

[kenneth_griffin]

Bullshit, look how many times Kobe took a shot with plenty of time on the shot clock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fAcGwRtYWI



1st shot was with 3 seconds left

2nd shot was actually a good look. in and out

3rd shot went in. good take

4th shot was a good take. just missed... shaq was above the foul line and nowhere near in position to do anything

5th shot shaq got waved off by fisher. how is that kobes fault

6th shot is a long 2.. he got it off clean.. but again shaq wasn't in position to do anything. he was being double teamed weak side and didn't make an effort to cross over to the other block

7th shot wallace never leaves shaq. kobe had to force it up. low shot clock

8th shot shaq doubled down low by the inbounders man. kobe had to make a play. just misses. maybe that shoulder is a problem but hes being forced to shoot? hmmmm

9th shot wallace and sheed fronting shaq on the weak side. another moment theres literally no play for shaq and its another typical kobe maneuver that usually goes down but not that series. like i said he wasn't the same and shaq isn't putting himself in a position to get an assist from kobe

10th shot kobe barely gets off the ground jumping off his right leg ( maybe due to the left knee surgery? hmmmm ) blocked by sheed. shaq makes no effort to go for the loose ball

11th shot shaq is again just standing on the opposite side not trying to get any position inside or for the put back. very lazy. perhaps doing his "if you don't feed the dog the dog wont guard the house" routine? hmmmmm

12th just a wide open miss with shaq waddling up the court with no care in the world

13th shot guess where shaq is. wrong side again. not trying to get infront of his defender for the rebound. laziness at its finest. his motto for 2003 and 2004

14th shot shaq doesn't even react again

15th shot again one of kobes teammates picks his side and not shaqs.. kobes fault? why isn't shaq running to the side kobes on and posting up? setting a pick? doing anything?


i'm done watching this sh*t

[kenneth_griffin]

I literally haven't posted any analytic data, I'm going off how the games went down. And no shit Kobe's had big moments and hit big buckets in the playoffs, but he never hit the truly significant ones, those were made by Horry, Fisher, Gasol & Artest



oh really


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JxwOzg1Dc0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJifooCpUyE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNs2DdbRqhQ



and who was passing to fisher/horry or getting doubled so those guys could get open

oh wait. nevermind. only lebron can get credit for those kinds of things

[1987_Lakers]

1st shot was with 3 seconds left

2nd shot was actually a good look. in and out

3rd shot went in. good take

4th shot was a good take. just missed... shaq was above the foul line and nowhere near in position to do anything

5th shot shaq got waved off by fisher. how is that kobes fault

6th shot is a long 2.. he got it off clean.. but again shaq wasn't in position to do anything. he was being double teamed weak side and didn't make an effort to cross over to the other block

7th shot wallace never leaves shaq. kobe had to force it up. low shot clock

8th shot shaq doubled down low by the inbounders man. kobe had to make a play. just misses. maybe that shoulder is a problem but hes being forced to shoot? hmmmm

9th shot wallace and sheed fronting shaq on the weak side. another moment theres literally no play for shaq and its another typical kobe maneuver that usually goes down but not that series. like i said he wasn't the same and shaq isn't putting himself in a position to get an assist from kobe

10th shot kobe barely gets off the ground jumping off his right leg ( maybe due to the left knee surgery? hmmmm ) blocked by sheed. shaq makes no effort to go for the loose ball

11th shot shaq is again just standing on the opposite side not trying to get any position inside or for the put back. very lazy. perhaps doing his "if you don't feed the dog the dog wont guard the house" routine? hmmmmm

12th just a wide open miss with shaq waddling up the court with no care in the world

13th shot guess where shaq is. wrong side again. not trying to get infront of his defender for the rebound. laziness at its finest. his motto for 2003 and 2004

14th shot shaq doesn't even react again

15th shot again one of kobes teammates picks his side and not shaqs.. kobes fault? why isn't shaq running to the side kobes on and posting up? setting a pick? doing anything?


i'm done watching this sh*t

1st shot - Miss
2nd shot - Miss
3rd - Make
4th - Miss
5th - Miss
6th - Miss
7th - Miss
8th - Miss

Im dont watching this sh*t.

[3ball]

1st shot - Miss
2nd shot - Miss
3rd - Make
4th - Miss
5th - Miss
6th - Miss
7th - Miss
8th - Miss

Im dont watching this sh*t.


Kobe had a bad series or 2 just like other greats, but he was always the league leader in clutch points - the kingpin of clutch points (scoring down the stretch of tight games).. This is statistical fact (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals)

[kenneth_griffin]

when kobe and shaq were at their best i remember whatever side kobe was on shaq would dart across the paint and seal his man for an easy lob inside... shaq made zero effort to do this in 2004. he was stuck in cement. 350 pounds and no care to try as long as he got his 25-27 points to avoid blame

thats all he could do. he didn't care about battling big ben or sheed all night. he couldn't do it anymore.


being traded to miami gave him the motivation he needed to get back in shape. if he was 2005 miami shaq in 2003 and 2004 the lakers win the title easily

even he admitted he didn't care after the first title with kobe. them winning in 2001 and 2002 was just icing for him

[kenneth_griffin]

1st shot - Miss
2nd shot - Miss
3rd - Make
4th - Miss
5th - Miss
6th - Miss
7th - Miss
8th - Miss

Im dont watching this sh*t.

like i said. context and lebron fans don't mix

if that version of kobe represented him the way you think it does he never has that 2009 run that was basically on par with 94 hakeem or any of jordans titles

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe had a bad series or 2 just like other greats, but he was always the league leader in clutch points - the kingpin of clutch points (scoring down the stretch of tight games).. This is statistical fact (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals)

You don't have to tell me, I've watched him hit a ton of huge clutch shots in his career, but his Finals performances are extremely underwhelming.

[3ball]

No one finds this amazing?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals


Kobe more than doubled the clutch points of everyone in the 2010 Playoffs

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3SEJnKQKc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mav2iBA1cwo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm9l1T_0Mt8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GklQlH1z_KE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4seP2wD_K4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mT99HCFFI

Kobe's never hit a shot bigger than any of these. Like I said, for someone with the super clutch rep, his teammates hit all the significant shots. The craziest part is HALF of these came off a Kobe brick :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Kobe had a bad series or 2 just like other greats, but he was always the league leader in clutch points - the kingpin of clutch points (scoring down the stretch of tight games).. This is statistical fact (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals)


Kobe in the Playoffs, 4th quarter

https://defpen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Screen-Shot-2017-06-03-at-3.01.00-PM.png


Last 5 minutes of 4th + OT, Playoffs - PER 36 minutes

https://defpen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Screen-Shot-2017-06-03-at-3.01.08-PM.png

[kenneth_griffin]

You don't have to tell me, I've watched him hit a ton of huge clutch shots in his career, but his Finals performances are extremely underwhelming.

more often than not kobes finals were in the west when he dominated


2000
2001
2002
2009

all years his best competition was before the finals

all years he absolutely destroyed the best teams

with shaq by the time the finals rolls around theres no more great big men to stop shaq from just hogging the ball and in 2009 it was like an afterthought vs the magic

its underwhelming when kobe wins and shocking when kobe loses so its lopsided in the finals... its just the price he paid for playing in a real conference


but being the #1 player all time in 50+ win playoff teams eliminated must count for something. buttf*cking duncan 4 times and taking out the kings/blazers and other legendary teams must be worth some sort of respect

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3SEJnKQKc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mav2iBA1cwo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm9l1T_0Mt8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GklQlH1z_KE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4seP2wD_K4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mT99HCFFI

Kobe's never hit a shot bigger than any of these. Like I said, for someone with the super clutch rep, his teammates hit all the significant shots. The craziest part is HALF of these came off a Kobe brick :oldlol:
lol @ Horry, Gasol, & Artest all hitting game winners off of Kobe's misses.

[SouBeachTalents]

You don't have to tell me, I've watched him hit a ton of huge clutch shots in his career, but his Finals performances are extremely underwhelming.
His elimination game performances are even worse. What's crazy is how many time the Lakers got curbstomped in them too, he has like 4 losses of 30+ points in elimination games

[kenneth_griffin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n3SEJnKQKc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mav2iBA1cwo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm9l1T_0Mt8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GklQlH1z_KE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4seP2wD_K4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mT99HCFFI

Kobe's never hit a shot bigger than any of these. Like I said, for someone with the super clutch rep, his teammates hit all the significant shots. The craziest part is HALF of these came off a Kobe brick :oldlol:


notice how every eyeball in the arena was fixated on kobe to basically create every single one of those open looks... and most were legit created by kobe lol


you're knocking kobe for something you praise lebron for

[Overdrive]

more often than not kobes finals were in the west when he dominated

So it's ok for Kobe to perform before the finals, but losing the finals is a knock on Lebron's career?

[3ball]

His elimination game performances are even worse. What's crazy is how many time the Lakers got curbstomped in them too, he has like 4 losses of 30+ points in elimination games


Elimination game stats mean zero

Lebron let a bunch of horrible teams nearly eliminate him... Stop with the elimination game stats against shit teams - only lebron nearly gets eliminated by those teams... Padding at it's finest.. probably the most clever inflation of Lebron that exists (and there's a ton of ways he's inflated)

[SouBeachTalents]

notice how every eyeball in the arena was fixated on kobe to basically create every single one of those open looks... and most were legit created by kobe lol


you're knocking kobe for something you praise lebron for
When have I praised LeBron for bricking game winners?

[kenneth_griffin]

lol @ Horry, Gasol, & Artest all hitting game winners off of Kobe's misses.

reminds me of how lebron won his 2013 title

oh yeah and didn't kyrie hit a series winning shot for his 2016 title after bran bricked 4 straight

and didn't davis save the lakers playoffs in that disney bubble buddy run with a big shot vs denver lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Elimination game stats mean zero

Lebron let a bunch of horrible teams nearly eliminate him... Stop with the elimination game stats against shit teams - only lebron nearly gets eliminated by those teams
Yeah, how you perform with your season on the line means zero, retard :lol

[kenneth_griffin]

When have I praised LeBron for bricking game winners?

i dunno but you sure do praise him for bricking finals series away

[SouBeachTalents]

i dunno but you sure do praise him for bricking finals series away
You're resorting to made up arguments at this point

[3ball]

Yeah, how you perform with your season on the line means zero, retard :lol


Lebron shouldn't have any elimination game stats against the 18' Pacers or Celtics, to name a couple

the existence of elimination game stats against those teams is a KNOCK

[kenneth_griffin]

Yeah, how you perform with your season on the line means zero, retard :lol

how did lebron get to that elimination game 7 in 2013

just wondering

[ImKobe]

His elimination game performances are even worse. What's crazy is how many time the Lakers got curbstomped in them too, he has like 4 losses of 30+ points in elimination games

2000: 25/12/7 4 blocks (led Lakers in all 4 categories) + shat all over Pippen 1 on 1 in crunch time, from the go-ahead shot to getting to the FT line to icing the game with the lob to Shaq

2002, down 2 - 3 to the Kings: 31/11/6 55%TS 1 turnover in 96 minutes of GT.


That's why many of his elimination game stats are misleading though, of course he took worse shots and forced it because his team couldn't defend or his teammates couldn't buy a shot, he had some bad games too, and he would have some low-scoring elimination games (Game 7 Rockets 2009, Game 7 Nuggets in 2012) where they blew out Houston and where he controlled the entire Nuggets' game and hit the dagger when they needed him to.

Also, as much shit as he gets for his 6/24 game in 2010, Game 6 was elimination too - 26/11/3 4 stls 58.9%TS.

[kenneth_griffin]

You're resorting to made up arguments at this point


so you never bragged about finals appearances in which lebron either

a) disappeared
b) shot 30% outside of 5 feet
c) quit
d) got soft picked off his man to avoid a 2nd straight deep throat 3 in his face back to back years

[1987_Lakers]

how did lebron get to that elimination game 7 in 2013

just wondering

They got there by LeBron scoring 16 points on 7 of 10 shooting in the 4th after Miami being down 10 to start the 4th.

[kenneth_griffin]

lebron fans legit brag about his 10 finals appearances knowing full well part of that "accomplishment" includes jj barea dad dicking his a**

[kenneth_griffin]

They got there by LeBron scoring 16 points on 7 of 10 shooting in the 4th after Miami being down 10 to start the 4th.

and shooting 27% outside of 5 feet for 6 games with pop daring him to shoot wide open

[SouBeachTalents]

They got there by LeBron scoring 16 points on 7 of 10 shooting in the 4th after Miami being down 10 to start the 4th.
Exactly, they want to praise Kobe's 4th quarter play then completely dismiss LeBron's. LeBron was by far the best player on the floor in the 4th quarter in Game 6 in 2013 & Game 7 in 2016, yet literally the only thing that matters is Ray & Kyrie's shots. But when Kobe's the one who has a big 4th quarter, someone else hitting the big shot doesn't matter :lol

[3ball]

so you never bragged about finals appearances in which lebron either

a) disappeared
b) shot 30% outside of 5 feet
c) quit
d) got soft picked off his man to avoid a 2nd straight deep throat 3 in his face back to back years


Lebron averaged 16 on 39% for the first 3 games of the 13' Finals, while teammates staved off an 0-3 deficit.

His 23 on 43% was insufficient through 6 games and needed Ray Allen to force Game 7.. Lebron was a net negative for the series (negative net rating, aka the Heat lost with him on the floor)

[1987_Lakers]

and shooting 27% outside of 5 feet for 6 games with pop daring him to shoot wide open

And how was his shooting in that game 7?

[1987_Lakers]

lebron fans legit brag about his 10 finals appearances knowing full well part of that "accomplishment" includes jj barea dad dicking his a**

Coming from a guy who was glad Kobe died because his death would enhance his legacy. You actually said that.

[kenneth_griffin]

And how was his shooting in that game 7?


why was there a game 7

[Shooter]

Kobe has always been a top 12-15 guy (for now) but guys are catching up.

His fanbase propped up his delicate legacy with false dreams and when the facts are revealed Kobe's career is a waivering house of cards, teetering on tumbling out of the top 15.

[Shooter]

why was there a game 7

Because of LeBron's 30 pt triple double. You new?

[kenneth_griffin]

Coming from a guy who was glad Kobe died because his death would enhance his legacy. You actually said that.

kobe the man is a feminist cuck treyvon martin supporter and pioneer for the eventual blm movement that destroyed the nba and he was an instrumental part to the invitation of lebron james to the lakers that turned them into a laughing stock. i have no affiliation or respect for that man

i only care about kobe on the court. and on the court his legacy is better served in death due to critics burying his career out of spite with multiple 12th all time rankings just to stir up controversy

since his death those same outlets have placed him firmly in the top 10 where he belongs and among people with actual credibility he is mentioned in the same breath as jordan in every debate about who the bar is for greatness in this league. hes far more respected and appreciated in death

i sold his autograph on ebay for 100$ canadian 2 days before his accident. a day later i purchased his autograph for 1500$ canadian and since then his bgs 9 rookie that i sold for 800$ is now worth 7 grand


the nba world tried burying kobe to prop up lebron. after his death they had to admit his career actually existed and put some respect on it again

yes. his death was good... for his basketball fans at least. for him personally and his direct family. they probly think basketball is the least important thing about his life


i cant relate to that sentiment

[Shooter]

kobe the man is a feminist cuck treyvon martin supporter and pioneer for the eventual blm movement that destroyed the nba and he was an instrumental part to the invitation of lebron james to the lakers that turned them into a laughing stock. i have no affiliation or respect for that man

i only care about kobe on the court. and on the court his legacy is better served in death due to critics burying his career out of spite with multiple 12th all time rankings just to stir up controversy

since his death those same outlets have placed him firmly in the top 10 where he belongs and among people with actual credibility he is mentioned in the same breath as jordan in every debate about who the bar is for greatness in this league. hes far more respected and appreciated in death

i sold his autograph on ebay for 100$ canadian 2 days before his accident. a day later i purchased his autograph for 1500$ canadian and since then his bgs 9 rookie that i sold for 800$ is now worth 7 grand


the nba world tried burying kobe to prop up lebron. after his death they had to admit his career actually existed and put some respect on it again

yes. his death was good... for his basketball fans at least. for him personally and his direct family. they probly think basketball is the least important thing about his life


i cant relate to that sentiment

12th isn't even "stirring up controversy." It is his actual ranking. It's accepted at this point.

Him breaking into the top 10 would be more controversial at this point.

[1987_Lakers]

kobe the man is a feminist cuck treyvon martin supporter and pioneer for the eventual blm movement that destroyed the nba and he was an instrumental part to the invitation of lebron james to the lakers that turned them into a laughing stock. i have no affiliation or respect for that man

i only care about kobe on the court. and on the court his legacy is better served in death due to critics burying his career out of spite with multiple 12th all time rankings just to stir up controversy

since his death those same outlets have placed him firmly in the top 10 where he belongs and among people with actual credibility he is mentioned in the same breath as jordan in every debate about who the bar is for greatness in this league. hes far more respected and appreciated in death

i sold his autograph on ebay for 100$ canadian 2 days before his accident. a day later i purchased his autograph for 1500$ canadian and since then his bgs 9 rookie that i sold for 800$ is now worth 7 grand


the nba world tried burying kobe to prop up lebron. after his death they had to admit his career actually existed and put some respect on it again

yes. his death was good... for his basketball fans at least. for him personally and his direct family. they probly think basketball is the least important thing about his life


i cant relate to that sentiment

Hate to break it to you, but most still have Kobe in the top 10-13 range and is below LeBron on every legitimate all-time ranking list.

[kenneth_griffin]

Hate to break it to you, but most still have Kobe in the top 10-13 range and is below LeBron on every legitimate all-time ranking list.



not on any rankings i've seen since his death


maybe on realgm message boards on ish message boards but not on any where they actually have a publicly traded company where they have to worry about major backlash

[1987_Lakers]

not on any rankings i've seen since his death


maybe on realgm message boards on ish message boards but not on any where they actually have a publicly traded company where they have to worry about major backlash

I notice you didn't highlight my post of him still being below LeBron. Lol, you know I'm right.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its not just the finals

Kobe has been terrible in just about every clutch situation there is


24 seconds, 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 4th quarter, game 7's, finals...

biggest case of media / narratives ever.

Truly the MOAT

[tpols]

Kobe led the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring for the first Lakers 3peat, and then was the 30 ppg clutch player for the repeat with Pau. 82games.com shows from 2008 to 2010 his crunch time numbers were best in the league. (last 5 minutes score +/- 5)

Kobe never played with an elite perimeter closer. Owners freaked out when chris paul almost got traded there. He won 5 rings with Derek Fisher, Ty Lue, and Jordan Farmer as his guard mates. Pau and Shaq couldn't close games. Pau was swept in the playoffs 3 times in a row before Kobe and Shaq was the king of getting swept before Kobe became a star.

Im revoking your Lakers fanhood for this sorry ass poast.

Its gone you little weasel.

[ImKobe]

not on any rankings i've seen since his death

Funny how most had him top 5 all-time in 2010 and once Lebron became the face of the league, all the media outlets flipped on Kobe in order to prop up Lebron and it took him dying for them to even give him a little respect in the ATG rankings.

Look at Ranker right now - https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Lebron's 4th all-time and Kobe's ranked 6th. Wait until Lebron retires and the media starts bashing him for his failures in order to prop up the next GOAT candidate, Kobe will be ahead of him as he should be, unless Lebron ties the ring count.

[Shooter]

Kobe led the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring for the first Lakers 3peat, and then was the 30 ppg clutch player for the repeat with Pau. 82games.com shows from 2008 to 2010 his crunch time numbers were best in the league. (last 5 minutes score +/- 5)

Kobe never played with an elite perimeter closer. Owners freaked out when chris paul almost got traded there. He won 5 rings with Derek Fisher, Ty Lue, and Jordan Farmer as his guard mates. Pau and Shaq couldn't close games. Pau was swept in the playoffs 3 times in a row before Kobe and Shaq was the king of getting swept before Kobe became a star.

In revoking your Lakers manhood for this sorry ass post.

Its gone you little weasel.

Solid top 15 player :applause:

[RRR3]

The meltdowns ITT :roll:

[Shooter]

Funny how most had him top 5 all-time in 2010 and once Lebron became the face of the league, all the media outlets flipped on Kobe in order to prop up Lebron and it took him dying for them to even give him a little respect in the ATG rankings.

Look at Ranker right now - https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/the-top-nba-players-of-all-time

Lebron's 4th all-time and Kobe's ranked 6th. Wait until Lebron retires and the media starts bashing him for his failures in order to prop up the next GOAT candidate, Kobe will be ahead of him as he should be, unless Lebron ties the ring count.

Ranker has Pippen 14th best all time, Curry 11th and KD 12th

:roll::roll:

You sure you wanna roll with that?

[1987_Lakers]

Kobe led the league in 4th quarter playoff scoring for the first Lakers 3peat, and then was the 30 ppg clutch player for the repeat with Pau. 82games.com shows from 2008 to 2010 his crunch time numbers were best in the league. (last 5 minutes score +/- 5)

Kobe never played with an elite perimeter closer. Owners freaked out when chris paul almost got traded there. He won 5 rings with Derek Fisher, Ty Lue, and Jordan Farmer as his guard mates. Pau and Shaq couldn't close games. Pau was swept in the playoffs 3 times in a row before Kobe and Shaq was the king of getting swept before Kobe became a star.

Im revoking your Lakers fanhood for this sorry ass poast.

Its gone you little weasel.

Pretty sad that LeBron in his only Finals appearance as a Laker so far outperformed every Kobe's Finals appearance by a mile.

[RRR3]

1987 Lakers got em BOILING :roll:

[tpols]

This is old Kobe in 2010 last year of prime.

2nd highest volume in the league on 45/36/82. Lebron, Kobe, and Dirk top 3 ranked clutch performers.

link (http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM)

[1987_Lakers]

Ranker has Pippen 14th best all time, Curry 11th and KD 12th

:roll::roll:

You sure you wanna roll with that?

Petrovic at #25. lmao.

[tpols]

Pretty sad that LeBron in his only Finals appearance as a Laker so far outperformed every Kobe's Finals appearance by a mile.

Against a +6000 team with Bam and Dragic out? That got SWEPT in the first round this year?

:oldlol:

Yea you a bitch. Hold that.

[1987_Lakers]

This is old Kobe in 2010 last year of prime.

2nd highest volume in the league on 45/36/82. Lebron, Kobe, and Dirk top 3 ranked clutch performers.

link (http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM)

LeBron at 35 in the Finals 30/12/9 on 67 TS%, blows away anything Kobe has ever done. :oldlol:

[Shooter]

In one playoff run LeBron had more 40 pt Finals games than Kobe's entire career.

[ImKobe]

4th quarter

Kobe 2010 Finals Game 7 - 10 pts 4 reb 1 ast 1 stl 62.8%TS
Lebron 2016 Finals Game 7 - 11 pts 3 reb 1 ast 1 blk 53.9%TS

[kenneth_griffin]

I notice you didn't highlight my post of him still being below LeBron. Lol, you know I'm right.

accomplishments wise lebrons ahead of kobe. but thats only because the media changed the mvp criteria every single year just to not give it to him. i think 8 guys left kobe off their entire ballot in 2006. he was 2nd in first place voting but ended up 5th overall or something


in 2003 he wins with the 88 jordan formula they used to deny magic/bird
in 2006 and 2007 he wins with the westbrook formula they used to deny harden
in 2009 he wins with the 1998 jordan formula that the media used to deny malone

and even in 2013 while hitting 10 game winners, dragging an injured squad to the playoffs and ripping his achilles in half i'm sure his efforts were more valuable to his team than whatever lebron did on his heatles 4 headed monster coasting to the finals out east

if the media wanted to they could have changed the criteria to fit kobes season depending on the stories they wrote. but they didn't like the guy cause of his shaq feud and colorado trial

simple as that. he may have been a 5-6 time league mvp and 5 time world champion... then hes still sitting ahead of lebron all time on the accomplishments ladder of success

[1987_Lakers]

Against a +6000 team with Bam and Dragic out? That got SWEPT in the first round this year?

:oldlol:

Yea you a bitch. Hold that.

And Kobe played the 2001 Sixers, 2002 Nets, & 2009 Magic in the Finals, not exactly household names and under performed in 2 of those Finals. LeBron dominated. :oldlol:

Keep name calling, all that tells me is that you are triggered as hell, probably because of all those times I embarrassed you in previous threads.

[Shooter]

LeBron at 35 in the Finals 30/12/9 on 67 TS%, blows away anything Kobe has ever done. :oldlol:

His 2020 run marked his 6th 30.0 PER thru the Finals. Most all time, more than all other players combined.

MJ has 2.
Shaq has 1
Bron has 6 :lol

[MadDog]

LeBron at 35 in the Finals 30/12/9 on 67 TS%, blows away anything Kobe has ever done. :oldlol:

LeBron fans and their Mickey Mouse ring. :oldlol: No crowd, no traveling, no pressure. Sounds like an environment LeBron would THRIVE in.

[Shooter]

LeBron fans and their Mickey Mouse ring. :oldlol: No crowd, no pressure. Sounds like an environment LeBron would THRIVE in.

LeBron is the most clutchest player ever. Guys like Murray, Mitchell, and Butler benefitted. Not LeClutch. Dumb :lol

[ImKobe]

Petrovic at #25. lmao.

But you have no problem with media outlets like ESPN listing Nash, Stockton, Giannis and AI over Zeke all-time, right?

[kenneth_griffin]

LeBron fans and their Mickey Mouse ring. :oldlol: No crowd, no pressure. Sounds like an environment LeBron would THRIVE in.

the bubble had donovan mitchell, tyler herro and jamal murray playing like 2006 kobe due to it being on a practice summer league court in an empty gym with no travel or fans lmao... and they're honestly gonna hype that title up


i think lonzo was a summer league mvp and champion once wasnt he? basically the same sh*t

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron fans and their Mickey Mouse ring. :oldlol: No crowd, no traveling, no pressure. Sounds like an environment LeBron would THRIVE in.

Kobe shot 6-24 in a game 7 at home with a home crowd cheering him on and trying to give him confidence, can only imagine how worse his shooting would have been without those fans. :(

[ImKobe]

the bubble had donovan mitchell, tyler herro and jamal murray playing like 2006 kobe due to it being on a practice summer league court in an empty gym with no travel or fans lmao... and they're honestly gonna hype that title up


i think lonzo was a summer league mvp and champion once wasnt he? basically the same sh*t

Jimmy Butler outplayed Lebron in the Finals as well :kobe: .

[1987_Lakers]

the bubble had donovan mitchell, tyler herro and jamal murray playing like 2006 kobe due to it being on a practice summer league court in an empty gym with no travel or fans lmao... and they're honestly gonna hype that title up


i think lonzo was a summer league mvp and champion once wasnt he? basically the same sh*t

Mitchell just dropped 45 the other night. Stop it. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

accomplishments wise lebrons ahead of kobe. but thats only because the media changed the mvp criteria every single year just to not give it to him. i think 8 guys left kobe off their entire ballot in 2006. he was 2nd in first place voting but ended up 5th overall or something


in 2003 he wins with the 88 jordan formula they used to deny magic/bird
in 2006 and 2007 he wins with the westbrook formula they used to deny harden
in 2009 he wins with the 1998 jordan formula that the media used to deny malone

and even in 2013 while hitting 10 game winners, dragging an injured squad to the playoffs and ripping his achilles in half i'm sure his efforts were more valuable to his team than whatever lebron did on his heatles 4 headed monster coasting to the finals out east

if the media wanted to they could have changed the criteria to fit kobes season depending on the stories they wrote. but they didn't like the guy cause of his shaq feud and colorado trial

simple as that. he may have been a 5 time league mvp and 5 time world champion... then hes still sitting ahead of lebron all time on the accomplishments ladder of success
Kobe has literally zero argument for MVP in '03 winning 50 games with Shaq while Duncan won 60 with no one playing even remotely close to a star level. Ditto '09 winning less games on a better team with worse numbers across the board than LeBron. And 2013 squeaking into the playoffs with what was supposed to be a superteam is a fcking joke :lol

The only other year Kobe could've won MVP was '06, but they typically don't give MVP to players on sub 50 win teams. Even '08 a lot of people feel CP3 was the MVP that year

[Shooter]

the bubble had donovan mitchell, tyler herro and jamal murray playing like 2006 kobe due to it being on a practice summer league court in an empty gym with no travel or fans lmao... and they're honestly gonna hype that title up


i think lonzo was a summer league mvp and champion once wasnt he? basically the same sh*t

See you get it. THOSE guys benefitted. They had an advantage. Less experienced, younger players.

Not the player that's been playing in packed stadiums with cameras swarming him since age 15. You finally get it.

[kenneth_griffin]

Kobe shot 6-24 in a game 7 at home with a home crowd cheering him on and trying to give him confidence, can only imagine how worse his shooting would have been without those fans. :(

yeah but

last 15 minutes of the 2010 NBA finals:

3:09 left in 3rd - Kobe 2 point shot ( boston 56 - lakers 49 )
2:37 left in 3rd - Gasol 2 free throws ( boston 56 - lakers 51 )
2:21 left in 3rd - Kobe 11th rebound
1:10 left in 3rd - Odom 2 point layup off kobe pass ( boston 57 - lakers 53 )
11:43 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 57 - lakers 55 )
8:46 left in 4th - Kobe 3 points, fouled on shot ( boston 59 - lakers 58 )
7:29 left in 4th - Artest 3 point play ( boston 61 - lakers 61 )
6:13 left in 4th - fisher 3 pointer ( boston 64 - lakers 64 )
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 12th rebound
5:56 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points. fouled on shot ( boston 64 - Lakers 66 )
5:36 left in 4th - Kobe 13th rebound
5:23 left in 4th - Kobe 2 point jumpshot ( boston 64 - Lakers 68 )
5:01 left in 4th - Kobe 14th rebound
4:39 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 64 - lakers 70 )
4:20 left in 4th - Kobe 15th rebound
3:21 left in 4th - Kobe 1 point, fouled on dunk attempt ( boston 66 - lakers 71 )
2:47 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Gasols 2 free throws ( boston 68 - lakers 73 )
2:20 left in 4th - loose ball foul Gasol 1 free throw ( boston 68 - lakers 74 )
1:30 left in 4th - Gasol 2 point shot ( boston 70 - lakers 76 )
1:01 left in 4th - Kobe assist to Artests 3 pointer ( Boston 73 - Lakers 79 )
0:25 left in 4th - Kobe 2 points, fouled on drive attempt ( boston 76 - lakers 81 )
0:11 left in 4th - intentional foul on vujacic ( boston 79 - lakers 83 )



and

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2020/05/07102834/gettyimages-102186435-594x594-1.jpg

https://www.nba.com/lakers/sites/lakers/files/180829-kb.jpg

https://lakers.newssurge.com/gallery/d/281819-2/Kobe+Bryant+laughs+as+he+holds+a+pair+of+NBA+champ ionship+trophies+alongside+Pau+Gasol+and+Derek+Fis her+on+Media+Day+2010.JPG

[ImKobe]

Kobe shot 6-24 in a game 7 at home with a home crowd cheering him on and trying to give him confidence, can only imagine how worse his shooting would have been without those fans. :(

Kobe Games 3-5 @Boston - 33/6/3/2 56.15%TS

38 pts in Game 5

Care to post more false narratives?

[1987_Lakers]

But you have no problem with media outlets like ESPN listing Nash, Stockton, Giannis and AI over Zeke all-time, right?

I'm not a big fan of ESPN either, but they are without a doubt more legit than the trash site you linked. And no, career wise I have no problem with those guys being ranked ahead of Isiah, only one I really disagree with is AI being ranked ahead of him. Stockton probably ranks ahead due to longevity, Giannis will probably eventually pass him up and Nash > Isiah.

[ImKobe]

4th quarter

Kobe 2010 Finals Game 7 - 10 pts 4 reb 1 ast 1 stl 62.8%TS
Lebron 2016 Finals Game 7 - 11 pts 3 reb 1 ast 1 blk 53.9%TS

[tpols]

If the facts show Kobe led the league in playoff 4th quarter scoring for a fistful of rings and had best in the league crunchtime numbers thats what the reality is.

I will admit his hero complex hurt him on gamewinners because he was too eager to obtain glory....

But OP you are a ho sir. No Lakers fan that watched his whole career would say he wasn't clutch.

[kenneth_griffin]

i've never seen 1987_lakers post this much in the past

and about kobe sucking at that... in 2021? shocking. i thought lebron was the goat and p*ssing on jordan right now. why bother will meaningless comparisons from a decade ago


unless he feels as though lebrons last 10 years were an utter joke full of colluding, ring chasing, bail outs, rigging and dad d*cking by inferior players to send his idols a** home in the first round without AD to prove that first year without him out west missing the playoffs wasn't a fluke and he really is dog sh*t

[ImKobe]

I'm not a big fan of ESPN either, but they are without a doubt more legit than the trash site you linked. And no, career wise I have no problem with those guys being ranked ahead of Isiah, only one I really disagree with is AI being ranked ahead of him. Stockton probably ranks ahead due to longevity, Giannis will probably eventually pass him up and Nash > Isiah.

What? An unproven Playoffs performer like Giannis with 0 Finals appearances is better than Zeke, who led his teams to 3 straight Finals (would have 3-Peated if not for injury & still came within 1 play of a 3-Peat) and B2B titles in an era where Bird never won B2B championships ? The same guy who beat Jordan, Bird and Kareem in the Playoffs is worse than Giannis, who's come up short against every legitimate Playoff team so far in his career?

Nash over Zeke? The guy who couldn't play defense or score 20+ ppg and who never led a team to the Finals, despite having a stacked cast on the offensive end? :kobe:

You're ****ing delusional.

[Shooter]

i've never seen 1987_lakers post this much in the past

and about kobe sucking at that... in 2021? shocking. i thought lebron was the goat and p*ssing on jordan right now. why bother will meaningless comparisons from a decade ago


unless he feels as though lebrons last 10 years were an utter joke full of colluding, ring chasing, bail outs, rigging and dad d*cking by inferior players to send his idols a** home in the first round without AD to prove that first year without him out west missing the playoffs wasn't a fluke and he really is dog sh*t

You're an easy target. You ignore, deflect, and never give up even dumb arguments. Why would he not post more?

[1987_Lakers]

If the facts show Kobe led the league in playoff 4th quarter scoring for a fistful of rings and had best in the league crunchtime numbers thats what the reality is.

I will admit his hero complex hurt him on gamewinners because he was too eager to obtain glory....

But OP you are a ho sir. No Lakers fan that watched his whole career would say he wasn't clutch.

Youre just a ho though. So I'm not surprised.

Sorry bud, I watched his whole career and yes he had his clutch moments, but there is no denying he underperformed in the Finals and is a tier below LeBron. These are facts.

[Shooter]

4th quarter

Kobe 2010 Finals Game 7 - 10 pts 4 reb 1 ast 1 stl 62.8%TS
Lebron 2016 Finals Game 7 - 11 pts 3 reb 1 ast 1 blk 53.9%TS

6/24

Yikes

[kenneth_griffin]

1987_lakers feeling the heat right now. his keyboards on fire today. never seen this much effort out of him

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ComplexBlindAfricanwilddog-max-1mb.gif

[Iverson3]

He's a terrible finals perfomer

[Shooter]

1987_lakers feeling the heat right now. his keyboards on fire today. never seen this much effort out of him

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ComplexBlindAfricanwilddog-max-1mb.gif

That's literally you :lol

[MadDog]

the bubble had donovan mitchell, tyler herro and jamal murray playing like 2006 kobe due to it being on a practice summer league court in an empty gym with no travel or fans lmao... and they're honestly gonna hype that title up


i think lonzo was a summer league mvp and champion once wasnt he? basically the same sh*t

The fact they all went off is telling. Wasn't that Mitchell and Murray's first playoff debut? :confusedshrug:


Kobe shot 6-24 in a game 7 at home with a home crowd cheering him on and trying to give him confidence, can only imagine how worse his shooting would have been without those fans. :(

You've never played competitive sports lol. An empty practice gym with nothing to lose vs a packed stadium with thousands of people roaring. Gee tough choice. :lol

[kenneth_griffin]

Sorry bud, I watched his whole career and yes he had his clutch moments, but there is no denying he underperformed in the Finals and is a tier below LeBron. These are facts.

except the only people that agree with you are nick wright, shannon sharpe, colin cowherd, stephen a smith and max kellerman


all people that have literally f*ck all to do with basketball and should never talk about it publically but get paid to because they stir sh*t up and say stupid sh*t to get views


no legit legend or rival of lebron has ever picked him over kobe. everyone that watched both men and played against both men pick kobe over lebron ( except a few guys that hate jordan and spite him like isiah and dr j... then they pick lebron as goat or better than jordan/kobe just cause they salty AF )


sorry bubba

[1987_Lakers]

What? An unproven Playoffs performer like Giannis with 0 Finals appearances is better than Zeke, who led his teams to 3 straight Finals (would have 3-Peated if not for injury & still came within 1 play of a 3-Peat) and B2B titles in an era where Bird never won B2B championships ? The same guy who beat Jordan, Bird and Kareem in the Playoffs is worse than Giannis, who's come up short against every legitimate Playoff team so far in his career?

Nash over Zeke? The guy who couldn't play defense or score 20+ ppg and who never led a team to the Finals, despite having a stacked cast on the offensive end? :kobe:

You're ****ing delusional.

Isiah is pretty much Chris Paul without the defense and shooting. Give me Nash & Giannis all day.

[ImKobe]

The fact they all went off is telling. Wasn't that Mitchell and Murray's first playoff debut? :confusedshrug:



You've definitely never played competitive sports lol. An empty practice gym with nothing to lose vs a packed stadium with thousands of people roaring. Gee tough choice. :lol

How about an entire off-season to rest before a Playoff run? How did Lebron look this year? Where was his 30 PER against the Suns? Oh, he was hurt and fatigued? Tough luck.

[tpols]

Its not moments if he led entire playoffs in 4th quarter scoring.

You're a sad excuse for a Lakers fan. This is going on your papers along with championing the oladipo pacers as a great team.

And now the bubble +6000 Heat minus their 2nd and 3rd best players. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

6/24

Yikes

:( Poor Kobe

[kenneth_griffin]

That's literally you :lol



wrong. most of what i post is copied from stuff i made 5 years ago

[1987_Lakers]

Its not moments if he led entire playoffs in 4th quarter scoring. You're a sad excuse for a Lakers fan. This is going on your papers along with championing the oladipo pacers as a great team.

And now the bubble +6000 Heat minus their 2nd and 3rd best players. :oldlol:

It's a well known fact that Miami were such huge underdogs because of LeBron's greatness. :pimp:

[Shooter]

wrong. most of what i post is copied from stuff i made 5 years ago

Oh. Okay bro.

[kenneth_griffin]

:( Poor Kobe


why all of a sudden the overdrive anti kobe rhetoric... i thought your boy was chasing goat status. why bother with a guy ranked 12th in your mind

[Smoke117]

Kobrick was never clutch. He just chucked up a lot of awful shots in those situations and on the rare occasion one actually went in his stans like Kenny and ImKobe sucked his pene dry.

[Iverson3]

The fact they all went off is telling. Wasn't that Mitchell and Murray's first playoff debut? :confusedshrug:



You've never played competitive sports lol. An empty practice gym with nothing to lose vs a packed stadium with thousands of people roaring. Gee tough choice. :lol

Get a job Warriorfan. And please burn your house. It's ugly, smelly and stop eating your dog poop.

[ImKobe]

Kobrick was never clutch. He just chucked up a lot of awful shots in those situations and on the rare occasion one actually went in his stans like ImKobe sucked his pene dry.

4th quarter

Kobe 2010 Finals Game 7 - 10 pts 4 reb 1 ast 1 stl 62.8%TS
Lebron 2016 Finals Game 7 - 11 pts 3 reb 1 ast 1 blk 53.9%TS

[kenneth_griffin]

its almost as if some sort of tragic event fell upon the lebron james basketball fan community to send them into a deep state of panic, depression and anxiety thats causing all of them to ramp up the anti kobe posts because they know their chance at catching jordan has slipped away

[Shooter]

why all of a sudden the overdrive anti kobe rhetoric... i thought your boy was chasing goat status. why bother with a guy ranked 12th in your mind

It's like beating up your little brother every now and then to keep them in line. Just a quick, friendly reminder is all

[Iverson3]

That's literally you :lol

I smell another permaban incoming.

[MadDog]

Get a job Warriorfan. And please burn your house. It's ugly, smelly and stop eating your dog poop.

Who's Warriorfan? Yesterday you called me coach too :oldlol: Time to hop off my nuts

[1987_Lakers]

why all of a sudden the overdrive anti kobe rhetoric... i thought your boy was chasing goat status. why bother with a guy ranked 12th in your mind

I didn't even mention LeBron's name until page 5 when you brought him into the discussion with me in late page 4 which was a bad idea. You will never win a LeBron vs Kobe argument.

[Iverson3]

Who's Warriorfan? Yesterday you alled me coach :oldlol: Time to hop off my nuts

He's retarded. And likely OD on his blunt.

[kenneth_griffin]

Kobrick was never clutch. He just chucked up a lot of awful shots in those situations and on the rare occasion one actually went in his stans like Kenny and ImKobe sucked his pene dry.

zoinks. here comes another one... why aren't you busy watching lebrons lakers chase for his 5th ring to match the great kobe bryant

are the lakers not scheduled to play the nuggets tonight? what happened



https://media3.giphy.com/media/eH5e8LXYBzKKI/200.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/eH5e8LXYBzKKI/200.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/eH5e8LXYBzKKI/200.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/eH5e8LXYBzKKI/200.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/eH5e8LXYBzKKI/200.gif

[kenneth_griffin]

I didn't even mention LeBron's name until page 5 when you brought him into the discussion with me in late page 4 which was a bad idea. You will never win a LeBron vs Kobe argument.

yeah but we all know why you're worried about kobe all of a sudden

https://media3.giphy.com/media/eH5e8LXYBzKKI/200.gif

[ArbitraryWater]

kenny tryna act so chill in his Kobe gospel while everyone else thinks the debate is done :lol

[1987_Lakers]

yeah but we all know why you're worried about kobe all of a sudden

https://media3.giphy.com/media/eH5e8LXYBzKKI/200.gif

The worried one is you, I have you typing essays up in here. :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

zoinks. here comes another one... why aren't you busy watching lebrons lakers chase for his 5th ring to match the great kobe bryant

are the lakers not scheduled to play the nuggets tonight? what happened

…what does Bran have to do with anything? I wanted the Suns to win, dipshit.

[MadDog]

yeah but we all know why you're worried about kobe all of a sudden

OP was a response to the flack LeBron's got. Its deflection. Bringing up "bad moments" from guys like Jordan and Kobe helps them cope. These two have been retired for years, but it doesn't matter. When LeBron loses they know where to find true greatness. :oldlol:

[1987_Lakers]

OP was response to the flack LeBron has received. Its deflection. Bringing up "bad moments" from guys like Kobe and Jordan helps them cope. These guys have been retired for years, but it doesn't matter. When LeBron loses they know where to find true greatness. :oldlol:

Look at the first 4 pages, I did not once mention LeBron's name.

[ImKobe]

OP was a response to the flack LeBron has received. Its deflection. Bringing up "bad moments" from guys like Jordan and Kobe helps them cope. These guys have been retired for years, but it doesn't matter. When LeBron loses they know where to find true greatness. :oldlol:

Rinse and repeat. This is why ISH is a ghost town during the off-season. It's this thread but on roids for a solid 3 months, and it's just Wheels on a bunch of alts vs. 3Ball going at it every single day.

[MadDog]

Look at the first 4 pages, I did not once mention LeBron's name.

Maybe not the first "4" pages. But the longer this thread went on, your agenda became obvious. I actually couldn't care less about your OP. Compared to his normal standards, Kobe WAS mediocre in the finals. Don't think that makes him unclutch though. That's just bad wording on your part.

[Shooter]

kenny tryna act so chill in his Kobe gospel while everyone else thinks the debate is done :lol

:lol

Why is this new poster so unhinged? NOBODY thinks Kobe is top 10 let alone GOAT like LeBron.

[Shooter]

Low iq thread

Sucking off your Curry abuser?

Good girl, keep suckin'

[999Guy]

It should accepted any of the typical mythical Kobe horseshit like killer instincts, clutch gene, alpha, etc is just another way of saying I love Kobe. Treat them like a dumb bitch talking about her boyfriend. Same level of insight. Same emotional energy.

[warriorfan]

Low iq thread

[1987_Lakers]

It should accepted any of the typical mythical Kobe horseshit like killer instincts, clutch gene, alpha, etc is just another way of saying I love Kobe. Treat them like a dumb bitch talking about her boyfriend. Same level of insight. Same emotional energy.

:roll:

[Axe]

At least he ain't 0/8 in go-ahead shots during crucial playoff games though. :confusedshrug:

[StrongLurk]

It's hard for me to rank Kobe in the top 5 since he had so many poor showings in the finals for his standards.

He was usually amazing in the first couple rounds 01-10, but just fell down a tier or two in the finals.

I'll NEVER understand people who think Kobe is actually better than MJ lol.

[kenneth_griffin]

:lol

Why is this new poster so unhinged? NOBODY thinks Kobe is top 10 let alone GOAT like LeBron.

literally the only people that don't have kobe top 10 all time are some trolls on ish, realgm and a few unknown writers at espn and maybe one or two other pro lebron websites/tv stations that make up lists every 5 years to try and show how much closer lebron has gotten to jordan and how much farther hes distanced himself from kobe


even nick wright and colin cowherd have kobe top 10... so does max and stephen a... and they're the only guys on tv even saying lebron is better than kobe

literally every other person, player, legend, coach has said kobes either top 10, top 5 or right there with MJ and all but isiah thomas and dr J have said kobes ahead of lebron


jeff... you don't have a leg to stand on. but keep trying lol

[And1AllDay]

It's hard for me to rank Kobe in the top 5 since he had so many poor showings in the finals for his standards.

He was usually amazing in the first couple rounds 01-10, but just fell down a tier or two in the finals.

I'll NEVER understand people who think Kobe is actually better than MJ lol.

i say kobe bean bryant is over mike

=bean did more with less its a known fact that pau was good but pippen was on legend status

=bean also has most 1st team all defense with 9x and peep my sig if you dont know now you know

=bean also has better finals win over boston big 3. mike has all 6 cupcake rings. 5 vs 6 sure, but kobes win over boston is worth at least 2.

=bean has better longevity then mike who quit and rested up like a b1tch. bean didnt need that he was tougher

[Jasper]

I watched enough games , where Kobe thought he was invincible and took shoot after shoot with 2 or 3 guys on him , and miss fired , while
his teammates stood open and watched.
I can't believe these stupid threads about a player that nicknamed himself , because no one on his team even liked him.
And his fans bowed down to him like he was the alpha messiah of bball , while he drove a franchise right into the ground.

[red1]

you know I appreciate you OP I just got tired of trolling kobe stans.




I have too much respect for kobe the person and kobe the player to keep bullying his fans with logic.

[kenneth_griffin]

I watched enough games , where Kobe thought he was invincible and took shoot after shoot with 2 or 3 guys on him , and miss fired , while
his teammates stood open and watched.
I can't believe these stupid threads about a player that nicknamed himself , because no one on his team even liked him.
And his fans bowed down to him like he was the alpha messiah of bball , while he drove a franchise right into the ground.

shoot after shoot and nobody liked him

everyone hear that? loads of knowledge oozing out of this guy. man.. im jealous

[kenneth_griffin]

you know I appreciate you OP I just got tired of trolling kobe stans.




I have too much respect for kobe the person and kobe the player to keep bullying his fans with logic.

nobody thinks of you as a troll. you need to be polarizing for that kind of title

[red1]

nobody thinks of you as a troll. you need to be polarizing for that kind of title

I actually have a ton of respect for kobe just like most of us. Thats not trolling.

[kenneth_griffin]

I actually have a ton of respect for kobe just like most of us. Thats not trolling.

hows that liberal cuck blm/antifa covid panic incel take over going right now over in toronto. i remember it gaining steam before i shut off my local news stations half a year ago.. have you joined them yet and donated all your money to the head coordinator that tells you who you can talk to and who can take pictures of your anti white conservative propaganda sign to help insight fear and divide among your community

have you convinced yourself that canada is just as evil and repressed as the confederate wasteland down south

just wondering

https://images.thestar.com/DecIIYlvY4INQFdXZZWW4Rzwmv0=/1200x975/smart/filters:cb(1592834175983)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2020/06/19/we-demand-better-we-demand-our-lives-black-lives-matter-toronto-protesters-call-for-defudning-of-police/_1protest3.jpg


thats you with the megaphone right?

[FKAri]

I watched enough games , where Kobe thought he was invincible and took shoot after shoot with 2 or 3 guys on him , and miss fired , while
his teammates stood open and watched.
I can't believe these stupid threads about a player that nicknamed himself , because no one on his team even liked him.
And his fans bowed down to him like he was the alpha messiah of bball , while he drove a franchise right into the ground.

Accurate. And strange for a guy who was otherwise quite intelligent about the game. But his ego > intelligence. Even Phil couldn't keep that ego in check.

[Axe]

I actually have a ton of respect for kobe just like most of us. Thats not trolling.
Yet for baldan that isn't the case from you. ;)

[kenneth_griffin]

its odd how much success kobe had while shooting his team out of every game in the clutch

you would think his win totals would be far less

he must have been overwhelmingly good at blowing teams out. cause if every time it was close at the end he was as bad as people are saying ITT he wouldn't have any success

kobe bryant = mr blow out.. best 1-3 quarter player ever. top 5-6 all time legendbe


just look at that game vs dallas in 2006...


https://i.pinimg.com/236x/05/c9/bf/05c9bf20dd2e46498b5d7c9559c3d873.jpg
nuff said

[red1]

hows that liberal cuck blm/antifa covid panic incel take over going right now over in toronto. i remember it gaining steam before i shut off my local news stations half a year ago.. have you joined them yet and donated all your money to the head coordinator that tells you who you can talk to and who can take pictures of your anti white conservative propaganda sign to help insight fear and divide among your community

have you convinced yourself that canada is just as evil and repressed as the confederate wasteland down south

just wondering

https://images.thestar.com/DecIIYlvY4INQFdXZZWW4Rzwmv0=/1200x975/smart/filters:cb(1592834175983)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/news/gta/2020/06/19/we-demand-better-we-demand-our-lives-black-lives-matter-toronto-protesters-call-for-defudning-of-police/_1protest3.jpg


thats you with the megaphone right?

I actually pay tax-dollars and have been raped on that front for years so no, not much liberal agenda here

I went to kitchener a few times and they were telling me that was supposed to be a racist town and I only heard a few lame jokes so no - canada is factually superior on that front. we dont have racism that the US has.



what does any of this have to do with lebron being a clutch god? thats what I came to discuss.

[kenneth_griffin]

I actually pay tax-dollars and have been raped on that front for years so no, not much liberal agenda here

I went to kitchener a few times and they were telling me that was supposed to be a racist town and I only heard a few lame jokes so no - canada is factually superior on that front. we dont have racism that the US has.



what does any of this have to do with lebron being a clutch god? thats what I came to discuss.



why does the clutch god shoot if its tied and pass if hes down 1... never understood that... you would think being a clutch god would mean you can risk failure

[red1]

why does the clutch god shoot if its tied and pass if hes down 1... never understood that... you would think being a clutch god would mean you can risk failure

clutch god doesnt just mean clutch shooter



although clutch shots are definitely a part of the package

[And1AllDay]

why does the clutch god shoot if its tied and pass if hes down 1... never understood that... you would think being a clutch god would mean you can risk failure

kenny we dont want heat on this one

https://i.postimg.cc/Jnd16J6V/Bron-gw-post.jpg

[red1]

we have clutch blocks, clutch layups, clutch steals we have all of that here.


what are you looking for? if you only want clutch shots we can help you out too. :applause:

[1987_Lakers]

Accurate. And strange for a guy who was otherwise quite intelligent about the game. But his ego > intelligence. Even Phil couldn't keep that ego in check.

I was gonna mention this earlier, when it comes to talking about the game, Kobe was very intelligent, much smarter than past greats like Shaq, Barkley, & even Magic but yes, his ego was just out of control. Shame he couldn't keep it in check.

[warriorfan]

why does the clutch god shoot if its tied and pass if hes down 1... never understood that... you would think being a clutch god would mean you can risk failure

End of Game 1 in the Finals he’s guarded by Curry and he passes to George Hill instead.

[And1AllDay]

End of Game 1 in the Finals he’s guarded by Curry and he passes to George Hill instead.

https://i.postimg.cc/CLKTMhjW/j4byroq2z5231.jpg

your getting undressed itt bro

[kenneth_griffin]

kenny we dont want heat on this one

https://i.postimg.cc/Jnd16J6V/Bron-gw-post.jpg


how many of those shots came in the finals or against teams like raptors and bobcats


meanwhile all of kobes clutch playoff shots come against teams that will force lebron into passing


big difference in competition. don't you remember our thread earlier today where we found out kobe beat 24 teams with 50+ wins compared to 13 for lebron

[And1AllDay]

how many of those shots came in the finals or against teams like raptors and bobcats


meanwhile all of kobes clutch playoff shots come against teams that will force lebron into passing


big difference in competition. don't you remember our thread earlier today where we found out kobe beat 24 teams with 50+ wins compared to 13 for lebron

its playoffs bro

anyway you slice it

we dont want this smoke trust me as bean fans


as for 50 win teams well if bran is getting high seeds how can he play 50 win teams? dumb logic on your end :oldlol:

dont punish bran for having a higher seed

[baudkarma]

put anyone else in kobes shoes and ask them to shoot 35 foot leaning out of bounds over 3 guys desperation shots and see if they can even keep their percentage above 20% let alone 35/40% or whatever kobe is in those situations

WTF was Kobe even attempting those shots? Three guys guarding him, figures he'd have a couple of teammates open. Open shots are almost always more successful no matter who takes them. I can see Kobe attempting that shot if the the clock is about to expire, but I've seen way too many times where Kobe gets the ball with ten seconds left on the clock, pounds it into ground, then puts up a prayer with 0.4 left on the clock. The ball goes in, and Kobe fanboys are "Yeahhhhhh! Kobe is the most clutch player evar!" If Kobe misses, or totally bricks the shot, the fanboys shrug and say "Well... he'll hit the next one.".

But he probably won't.

[Axe]

I was gonna mention this earlier, when it comes to talking about the game, Kobe was very intelligent, much smarter than past greats like Shaq, Barkley, & even Magic but yes, his ego was just out of control. Shame he couldn't keep it in check.
He was an immature spoiled brat by the time he came to the league when he was 18. But after more than 10 years of playing, he started to deviate from such behavior. A role player teammate like derek fisher also probably helped him improve his character throughout his career.

[kenneth_griffin]

its playoffs bro

anyway you slice it

we dont want this smoke trust me as bean fans

i slice it like this... put kobe in the east and lebron in the west since the start of their careers and kobe makes the finals in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 ( coasting all year instead of ripping his achilles in half ) and who knows how many more times

and instead of going up against the spurs, kings, mavs, suns, rockets, blazers etc... hes going up against the raptors, bobcats, pacers, wizards, knicks, hawks, magic and wizards and probly hitting 20 playoff game winners


their careers literally flip.. except for one thing... kobe would have more rings

[And1AllDay]

i slice it like this... put kobe in the east and lebron in the west since the start of their careers and kobe makes the finals in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 ( coasting all year instead of ripping his achilles in half ) and who knows how many more times

and instead of going up against the spurs, kings, mavs, suns, rockets, blazers etc... hes going up against the raptors, bobcats, pacers, wizards, knicks, hawks, magic and wizards and probly hitting 20 playoff game winners


their careers literally flip.. except for one thing... kobe would have more rings

im not arguing bean and bran i think bean is #2 all time...? whats your point ?

and i dont think bran would win less rings with shaq then carlos boozer wtf :oldlol:

slow down

[kenneth_griffin]

WTF was Kobe even attempting those shots? Three guys guarding him, figures he'd have a couple of teammates open. Open shots are almost always more successful no matter who takes them. I can see Kobe attempting that shot if the the clock is about to expire, but I've seen way too many times where Kobe gets the ball with ten seconds left on the clock, pounds it into ground, then puts up a prayer with 0.4 left on the clock. The ball goes in, and Kobe fanboys are "Yeahhhhhh! Kobe is the most clutch player evar!" If Kobe misses, or totally bricks the shot, the fanboys shrug and say "Well... he'll hit the next one.".

But he probably won't.

already answered this... kobe took all the desperation shots for the lakers. full court? no problem. mid court? no problem. 2 or 3 seconds left on the clock? no problem.. down a ton? lets see if i can hit a few 3's in a row rather than pad an open layup and trade 2 for 2 like leb*tch who would just pass to a teammate under all of these other situations

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/CLKTMhjW/j4byroq2z5231.jpg

your getting undressed itt bro

kenny? welfare fan? yall done?

[kenneth_griffin]

im not arguing bean and bran i think bean is #2 all time...? whats your point ?

and i dont think bran would win less rings with shaq then carlos boozer wtf :oldlol:

slow down

lebrons never been able to work well with bigs that clog the lane. he turned shaq from an allstar mvp into a garbage man after just half a calendar year. lebron needs his bigs to shoot 3's. and he would sabotage shaqs finals mvps the way he did with wade in 2011.

sorry. kobe is the more complimentary young player. he can play both ways. lebron can't. you lose

[And1AllDay]

lebrons never been able to work well with bigs that clog the lane. he turned shaq from an allstar mvp into a garbage man after just half a calendar year. lebron needs his bigs to shoot 3's. and he would sabotage shaqs finals mvps the way he did with wade in 2011.

sorry. kobe is the more complimentary young player. he can play both ways. lebron can't. you lose

kenny you not telling me 2010 shaq is the same as the diesel from 99' to 06' come on bro

i never lose. im the best forum poster we got. keep typing and learning tho

[kenneth_griffin]

kenny you not telling me 2010 shaq is the same as the diesel from 99' to 06' come on bro

i never lose. im the best forum poster we got. keep typing and learning tho

i'm telling you that diesel from 2010 should at least be somewhat like he was in 2009 but lebron put an end to that idea

[Pip' N Rodman]

lebrons never been able to work well with bigs that clog the lane. he turned shaq from an allstar mvp into a garbage man after just half a calendar year. lebron needs his bigs to shoot 3's. and he would sabotage shaqs finals mvps the way he did with wade in 2011.

sorry. kobe is the more complimentary young player. he can play both ways. lebron can't. you lose

How many 30 point triple doubles did Kobe get

[And1AllDay]

How many 30 point triple doubles did Kobe get

bean dont even have a 10 pt playoff triple double :(

[kenneth_griffin]

How many 30 point triple doubles did Kobe get

i dunno but probly less than the all time leader russell westbrick. and if he isn't yet he soon will be


he literally killed oscar robertsons legacy and everything lebron fans hold dear

[kenneth_griffin]

bean dont even have a 10 pt playoff triple double :(

i remember this bruce blitz guy exposing lebrons manufactured triple doubles before. it was quite the video


https://youtu.be/qc8NNG7tQSM?t=858


gets really good at 14:10

[And1AllDay]

i remember this bruce blitz guy exposing lebrons manufactured triple doubles before. it was quite the video


https://youtu.be/qc8NNG7tQSM?t=858


gets really good at 14:10

2017 video :oldlol:

kenny is stuck in a 10 yr delay :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

i dunno but probly less than the all time leader russell westbrick. and if he isn't yet he soon will be


he literally killed oscar robertsons legacy and everything lebron fans hold dear

playoff triple doubles

1. magic = 30
2. bran = 28
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
36. Oladipo = 1
.
.
.
.
.

1,000,000. kobe = 0

[outofstomach]

Yeah, how you perform with your season on the line means zero, retard :lol

how isn’t it a knock that lebron almost gets eliminated by terrible teams? why do you stans always deflect and never answer questions?

[kenneth_griffin]

2017 video :oldlol:

kenny is stuck in a 10 yr delay :oldlol:

so you're saying lebron changed the way he pads his rebounds to chase triple doubles

[miggyme1]

A topic about kobe turns into a topic about lebron. Smh i swear the dumbest people reside on this site!

[paksat]

Individual efficiency is an overrated driver of winning

When Kobe takes a lot of shots, it controls the game and prevents the opponent from controlling the flow.

The defense gets worn down defending him and battling for rebounds of his misses, which takes away from their offense.

Kobe's volume and attack won the attrition battle, so opponents were worn down and weren't fresher on offense than the Lakers

you just loveeeeee hearing yourself talk

how is his taking and missing a lot of shots any different than anyone else in the world missing a lot of shots? Does the fact that kobe takes a retarded 35 foot jumper causing a long rebound suddenly make his shot missing better than someone elses? What kind of logic is this? Someone on the floor is going to miss the shot causing the rebound no matter who is shooting it, it is the same energy and chance no matter WHO is doing it.

I can get defenses getting worn down having to deal with him, but the rest of that is just dumb.

kobe under performed in a lot of games, this is nothing new OP. Phil jackson himself said he is un coachable and nothing kenneth can do will ever change that. He takes a ton of dumb shots for entertainment purposes and a TON of player did not like playing with him. Shaq being number 1

[paksat]

1st shot was with 3 seconds left

2nd shot was actually a good look. in and out

3rd shot went in. good take

4th shot was a good take. just missed... shaq was above the foul line and nowhere near in position to do anything

5th shot shaq got waved off by fisher. how is that kobes fault

6th shot is a long 2.. he got it off clean.. but again shaq wasn't in position to do anything. he was being double teamed weak side and didn't make an effort to cross over to the other block

7th shot wallace never leaves shaq. kobe had to force it up. low shot clock

8th shot shaq doubled down low by the inbounders man. kobe had to make a play. just misses. maybe that shoulder is a problem but hes being forced to shoot? hmmmm

9th shot wallace and sheed fronting shaq on the weak side. another moment theres literally no play for shaq and its another typical kobe maneuver that usually goes down but not that series. like i said he wasn't the same and shaq isn't putting himself in a position to get an assist from kobe

10th shot kobe barely gets off the ground jumping off his right leg ( maybe due to the left knee surgery? hmmmm ) blocked by sheed. shaq makes no effort to go for the loose ball

11th shot shaq is again just standing on the opposite side not trying to get any position inside or for the put back. very lazy. perhaps doing his "if you don't feed the dog the dog wont guard the house" routine? hmmmmm

12th just a wide open miss with shaq waddling up the court with no care in the world

13th shot guess where shaq is. wrong side again. not trying to get infront of his defender for the rebound. laziness at its finest. his motto for 2003 and 2004

14th shot shaq doesn't even react again

15th shot again one of kobes teammates picks his side and not shaqs.. kobes fault? why isn't shaq running to the side kobes on and posting up? setting a pick? doing anything?


i'm done watching this sh*t

why you guys even bother with kenneth is beyond me

kobe can do no wrong whatsoever with him, every shot is open, every shot should be taken

he's worse than 3ball in fact they're both as bad as each other. My favorite player is probably wade and I can admit he fell off a cliff in 2011+, dude needed to work on his jump shot become an elite 3 point shooter because he had the form to do it but he never did.

[paksat]

1st shot - Miss
2nd shot - Miss
3rd - Make
4th - Miss
5th - Miss
6th - Miss
7th - Miss
8th - Miss

Im dont watching this sh*t.

:roll:

[DoctorP]

What would Kobe have done without Fisher and Horry?

FAIL

[kenneth_griffin]

why you guys even bother with kenneth is beyond me

kobe can do no wrong whatsoever with him, every shot is open, every shot should be taken

he's worse than 3ball in fact they're both as bad as each other. My favorite player is probably wade and I can admit he fell off a cliff in 2011+, dude needed to work on his jump shot become an elite 3 point shooter because he had the form to do it but he never did.

he made a top 5 or 6 all time career off of.those kinds of shots. they just weren't going down in 2004 cause of major reconstructive surgery on his shooting arm. he wasn't the same that season. hence the dip from 30 down to 24ppg and wearing a shoulder brace half the season

[kenneth_griffin]

What would Kobe have done without Fisher and Horry?

FAIL

jesus.. can kobe have any teammates. I mean other guys like lebron have teammates like wade, bosh, Ray Allen, kyrie, love, Davis, rondo and a bunch of other former allstars colluding and hitting big shots for the guy and kobe can't even set up a career role player with a good look 2 or 3 times

[dankok8]

Some of Kobe's struggles can be attributed to facing the best defenses in the league.

2000 Pacers - 103.6 DRtg (13th)
2001 Sixers - 98.9 DRtg (5th)
2002 Nets - 99.5 DRtg (1st)
2004 Pistons - 95.4 DRtg (2nd) -- Pistons were simply insane post-Rasheed trade - they had a DRtg around 92
2008 Celtics - 98.9 DRtg (1st)
2009 Magic - 101.9 DRtg (1st)
2010 Celtics - 103.8 DRtg (5th)

Except the 2000 Pacers the others range anywhere from great to absolutely legendary defenses.

[Bankaii]

Some of Kobe's struggles can be attributed to facing the best defenses in the league.

2000 Pacers - 103.6 DRtg (13th)
2001 Sixers - 98.9 DRtg (5th)
2002 Nets - 99.5 DRtg (1st)
2004 Pistons - 95.4 DRtg (2nd) -- Pistons were simply insane post-Rasheed trade - they had a DRtg around 92
2008 Celtics - 98.9 DRtg (1st)
2009 Magic - 101.9 DRtg (1st)
2010 Celtics - 103.8 DRtg (5th)

Except the 2000 Pacers the others range anywhere from great to absolutely legendary defenses.
The east has always had better defenses.
The same east that yall give lebron crap for beating.
But when Kobe struggles against them they’re “legendary defenses”. Y’all cant even keep your agendas straight:oldlol:

[dankok8]

The east has always had better defenses.
The same east that yall give lebron crap for beating.
But when Kobe struggles against them they’re “legendary defenses”. Y’all cant even keep your agendas straight:oldlol:

The East generally had weaker teams though. That's why Kobe struggled in some but the Lakers still won 5/7 finals. Plus Lebron beat up the 2010's East which was a different story. Other than the Pacers (who really really sucked on offense) there were no great defenses in the East after the Celtics were gone. And those same Celtics were nothing special on offense.

I don't see how those are the same arguments.

[Bankaii]

The East generally had weaker teams though. That's why Kobe struggled in some but the Lakers still won 5/7 finals. Plus Lebron beat up the 2010's East which was a different story. Other than the Pacers (who really really sucked on offense) there were no great defenses in the East after the Celtics were gone. And those same Celtics were nothing special on offense.

I don't see how those are the same arguments.
Either you’re always talking out of your ass or you legit turn retarded when Lebron is involved. Look at the defenses he faced in the playoffs
2011: 1st, 2nd, 7th
2012: 1st, 9th, 5th
2013: 1st, 6th, 12th
2014: 1st, 20th, 5th

He faced a top 9 defense every round except 2.
The 90s Knicks were a trash offensive team as well. But Jordan fans act like they were amazing comp.

I’m not claiming was better than the west. I just think it’s hilarious how the east was trash but Kobe always struggled more against them

[TheCorporation]

Kobe was never clutch, he just took a million shots and hit some.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[MadDog]

Don't think we can use the "he faced tough defense" argument for Kobe. 6/7 were all elite on defense and put up historical DRTGs. That's true, but some of Kobe's peers had no problem. The 2009 Magic and 2010 Celtics were clapped by Wade and LeBron.

[Airupthere]

We know Kobe is not Mr. Hot Potato that's for sure.

[DoctorP]

We know Kobe is not Mr. Hot Potato that's for sure.

yeah he can get a shot up

[tpols]

Don't think we can use the "he faced tough defense" argument for Kobe. 6/7 were all elite on defense and put up historical DRTGs. That's true, but some of Kobe's peers had no problem. The 2009 Magic and 2010 Celtics were clapped by Wade and LeBron.

Wade and LeBron took L's in all those series. Especially LeBron. He was favored with HCA in both.

Kobe averaged 30/6/5 in both those series and led the Lakers to championships. I guess MJ production and rings ain't clutch lmao.

But L's with a favored team are. Wade was getting clapped by the Hawks before the Celtics so there's no excuse.

[red1]

Ive been very good at sticking to my word of not bullying kobe stans since his death



told you Im a man of my word

[MadDog]

Wade and LeBron took L's in all those series. Especially LeBron. He was favored with HCA in both.

Kobe averaged 30/6/5 in both those series and led the Lakers to championships. I guess MJ production and rings ain't clutch lmao.

But L's with a favored team are. Wade was getting clapped by the Hawks before the Celtics so there's no excuse.

Individually they dominated though. Unless you're saying both were the reason they lost. Wade wasn't favored against the 10 Celtics and still murked them. With no help either. Not seeing a correlation with Jordan winning rings and being unclutch. Sounds randomly thrown in there, like word salad.

[tpols]

Individually they dominated though. Unless you're saying both were the reason they lost. Wade wasn't favored against the 10 Celtics and still murked them. With no help either. Not seeing a correlation with Jordan winning rings and being unclutch. Sounds randomly thrown in there, like word salad.

So did Kobe. 30/6/5 on 55+TS. His ORTGs in those playoffs were all elite. I brought up MJ because he was the standard for 30/5/5 and has a career TS of 56. So Kobe literally put up standard MJ production while winning rings. Stats in a first round L to the Hawks or Celtics don't mean anything compared to that. Donovan Mitchell dropped that last year in a first round L and that didn't matter much either.

Its obviously much harder to drop a better statline after going through a grueling 3 rounds first than it is to do it fresh in round 1. And in a series you got your ass kicked in anyway. (empty stats)

Playing GOAT defenses like the 2004 Pistons, and 2008 Celtics certainly does matter. As well as top ranked Sixer, Net, and Magic defenses that played in an era you could hit people and drag games to a low scoring crawl in NJ and Phillys cases. Can't compare numbers today to that apples to apples.

[MadDog]

So did Kobe. 30/6/5 on 55+TS. His ORTGs in those playoffs were all elite. I brought up MJ because he was the standard for 30/5/5 and has a career TS of 56. So Kobe literally put up standard MJ production while winning rings. Stats in a first round L to the Hawks or Celtics don't mean anything compared to that. Donovan Mitchell dropped that last year in a first round L and that didn't matter much either.

Its obviously much harder to drop a better statline after going through a grueling 3 rounds first than it is to do it fresh in round 1. And in a series you got your ass kicked in anyway. (empty stats)
Playing GOAT defenses like the 2004 Pistons, and 2008 Celtics certainly does matter. As well as top ranked Sixer, Net, and Magic defenses that played in an era you could hit people and drag games to a low scoring crawl in NJ and Phillys cases. Can't compare numbers today to that apples to apples.

Are we talking about the playoffs or finals? I brought up the Celtics and Magic because that's what the OP highlighted. Kobe averaged 53%TS vs both Orlando and Boston. In Jordan's prime, he averaged 34/7/6 on 58%TS in the playoffs. So no, you're off. Kobe did not average "standard Jordan production" while winning rings.

And having better stats in the 3rd round doesn't negate what you did in the 1st. You're still facing elimination in every series. Regardless. Wade killed the Celtics who made Kobe shoot poorly. That's a fact. Kobe had a better team that year, but that doesn't make what Wade did empty. By that logic Kobe's 2006 and 2007 years were null and void.

Sure, Kobe played against tough defenses. And I agree that OP misused "clutch" to chide Kobe. But Kobe also played the Magic and Celtics who Wade and LeBron tore up. Not their fault management surrounded them with garbage.

[tpols]

There's no such thing as killing somebody in a series you lost 1-4 and were blown out in almost every game. Boston crushed Miami in the 2010 first round. I bet you thought 2014 super efficient LeBron killed the spurs too coach.

Ditto losing as favorite in 2nd round and quitting with a fake injury. You can take that nonsense to the curb mate.

Kobe outproduced everybody in both the 2009 and 2010 Finals by a huge amount after having shot on the West just to get there.

There's no spinning how that's worth more than a 5 game sample where you got your ass kicked and sent home.

[MadDog]

Of course there is. Jordan obliterated the 86 Celtics and lost in the first round. After the series we know what Bird called him. :oldlol: If you can't separate team from individual, that's your problem. Kobe doesn't hold a candle to prime Jordan so quit trying to sneak him in there. For as good as he was, Kobe doesn't belong in that tier.

[TheMan]

Kobe didn't gaf about nerd stats like efficiency or TS% BS, dude would go out guns blazing...it's a double edged sword obviously because you can shoot your team out of a game but he was more successful than not...3/4 as Shaq's wingman and 2/3 as the alpha...not bad if you ask me.

[Lebron23]

Kobe didn't gaf about nerd stats like efficiency or TS% BS, dude would go out guns blazing...it's a double edged sword obviously because you can shoot your team out of a game but he was more successful than not...3/4 as Shaq's wingman and 2/3 as the alpha...not bad if you ask me.

That's why he's a borderline top 10 player of all time. Personally I ranked the late Kobe at 12th.