MJ had the goat performance in the 93' Finals - it doesn't get any credit

[3ball]

Pace was only 89.7 in that series

Both the Suns/Bulls averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ortg, so every ounce of Jordan's 41 was needed.

Phoenix had far more scorers and the #9 defense (#7 for Bulls), along with homecourt and favored status among public opinion.

Tbh, all of Jordan's Finals performances were like Wade's 06' Finals or better... Even in 96' when his stats were down - everyone's stats were down in that series (15 on 34% for Pip)

[And1AllDay]

mike doesnt see the 93' finals without pippen stimulus

https://i.postimg.cc/9FQyj0J0/scottie_again.png

make an appreciation thread for pippen you fool. how much times must i teach you

[SouBeachTalents]

Word, people really need to start acknowledging how good Jordan was, definitely the most under the radar star of his generation

[imdaman99]

:lol at doesn't get any credit. Just stop with the dramatics, OP :oldlol:

[3ball]

Word, people really need to start acknowledging how good Jordan was, definitely the most under the radar star of his generation


No one talks about the time a player averaged 41 in a Finals (89 pace), even though it was against big-mouth Barkley's loaded Suns.

[72-10]

Wowie, I'd say it's because of Gm 4

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Word, people really need to start acknowledging how good Jordan was, definitely the most under the radar star of his generation

Maybe if Mike had signature shoes or made a movie like Bron, he'd be more recognized. Tough break.

[SouBeachTalents]

No one talks about the time a player averaged 41 in an 89 pace Finals, even though it was against big-mouth Barkley's loaded Suns.
When do you expect people to talk about it? The shit happened 30 years ago. Do you expect during the playoffs they'll cut to a highlight of Jordan making a layup on Dan Majerle from Clinton's first year in office?

Lots of crazy shit's happened in sports, Eli Manning knocked off an 18-0 Brady led Pats team, no one talks about that now either

[SouBeachTalents]

Maybe if Mike had signature shoes or made a movie like Bron, he'd be more recognized. Tough break.
Idk, I just can't picture anybody buying his sneakers or seeing his movies. He was a good player but he wasn't THAT big of a household name during his era

[ArbitraryWater]

cause the Suns defense was a joke

[3ball]

When do you expect people to talk about it? The shit happened 30 years ago. Do you expect during the playoffs they'll cut to a highlight of Jordan making a layup on Dan Majerle from Clinton's first year in office?

Lots of crazy shit's happened in sports, Eli Manning knocked off an 18-0 Brady led Pats team, no one talks about that now either


True

[red1]

how many 70-win victories?

[1987_Lakers]

cause the Suns defense was a joke

This. Bron defeated a 73 win team with an elite defense and led every single player in every statisitcal category, GOAT Finals series.

[The Deam]

Why do you do it 3ball?

[Smoke117]

https://i.postimg.cc/MGR4Fm7m/GOATchipalltime.jpg

[red1]

This. Bron defeated a 73 win team with an elite defense and led every single player in every statisitcal category, GOAT Finals series.

jordan fans are the single party that elevated lebron's status to an undisputed top-2 all-time



jordan fans are the ones who gave lebron all of these impossible hoops to jump through "you need a 3-peat or you aint shit. actually you need two."




how many wins does jordan - or anyone else all-time - how many wins do they have over a 70-win team?












:roll:

[paksat]

Why do you do it 3ball?

he follows mj like I used to, it's an unhealthy thing

but he took it to the next level, I used to just watch his highlights to see about this legend that I didn't get to see much of live.

3 ball over there acting like it's the only thing on TV

[3ball]

cause the Suns defense was a joke


People always said that because Barkley had a negative perception defensively - but Majerle was all defense, while Oliver Miller was a leading shot-blocker and the Suns ranked barely behind the Bulls defensively.

And the pace was only 89 - only MJ and Kobe averaged 30+ in a under-90 pace Finals... And MJ averaged 41 in this scenario

edit: peak Shaq averaged 30+ in 00'

[red1]

I know someone who has a finals MVP.. who broke a 50-year curse shout-out kyrie love jr TT rj tlue and the rest of the squad...




http://nba.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/teams/cavaliers/2016/06/20/1466436143726-CAVS_LBJ_REVERSE_CURSE2.mp4-604890-1.576x324.jpg

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Idk, I just can't picture anybody buying his sneakers or seeing his movies. He was a good player but he wasn't THAT big of a household name during his era

Maybe. Always felt his initials took away from his fame. I mean, come on. In the 80s and 90s there was only one MJ.

*3ball spins his head backwards*

[red1]

even the worst haters have to put lebron top-5 now or they look like the retarded trolls they are :roll:




the hater argument used to be "magic is better, bootleg magic" - magic himself says bron is better :roll:

[3ball]

I know someone who has a finals MVP.. who broke a 50-year curse shout-out kyrie love jr TT rj tlue and the rest of the squad...




http://nba.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/teams/cavaliers/2016/06/20/1466436143726-CAVS_LBJ_REVERSE_CURSE2.mp4-604890-1.576x324.jpg


But Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win that - so it's his ring

Kyrie outplayed Lebron in Game 5

[red1]

But Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win that - so it's his ring

Kyrie outplayed Lebron in Game 5

kyrie takes souls dude.




he might take the bulls soul if it was bron/ree vs jordan's prime bulls....

[3ball]

even the worst haters have to put lebron top-5 now or they look like the retarded trolls they are :roll:




the hater argument used to be "magic is better, bootleg magic" - magic himself says bron is better :roll:


Kyrie and Wilt are the only players in history that scored 40+ in the Finals on 70%

So Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win and he was an equal-scoring partner to Lebron - it was a 1a/1b and doesn't compare to any of Jordan's carry-jobs

[red1]

Kyrie and Wilt are the only players in history that scored 40+ in the Finals on 70%

So Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win and he was an equal-scoring partner to Lebron - it was a 1a/1b and doesn't compare to any of Jordan's carry-jobs

I dont understand what you're trying to say. Wilt is an all-time freak athlete who was breaking records back when we didnt understand some of the things that we do now about nutrition. If he was a gym rat already back then, he'd be the most jacked athlete of all-time in the modern era, putting shaq to shame with the size that he put on. I'm not talking about fat I'm talking about pure muscle.



what does that have to with a skill-based player like kyrie?

[SouBeachTalents]

Kyrie and Wilt are the only players in history that scored 40+ in the Finals on 70%

So Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win and he was an equal-scoring partner to Lebron - it was a 1a/1b and doesn't compare to any of Jordan's carry-jobs
But in the other threads you praised KD for letting Kyrie flourish and play to his capacity. But when it happens with LeBron he gets criticized. Literally no consistency and laughable double standards and hypocrisy :lol

[3ball]

.


what does that have to with a skill-based player like kyrie?





Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win and he was an equal-scoring partner to Lebron - it was a 1a/1b and doesn't compare to any of Jordan's carry-jobs

[red1]

Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win and he was an equal-scoring partner to Lebron - it was a 1a/1b and doesn't compare to any of Jordan's carry-jobs

its a very very VERY poor comparison.




FYI jordan never played a team like what kyrie went up against in the finals.





kyrie is more jordan or kobe than wilt.





wilt? :oldlol:

[red1]

jordan was too busy getting back-to-back rings off of stockton malone and hornacek :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

jordan was too busy getting back-to-back rings off of stockton malone and hornacek :oldlol:

The same guys who beat Shaq, Hakeem & Duncan in the Playoffs in those years.

[Smoke117]

Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win and he was an equal-scoring partner to Lebron - it was a 1a/1b and doesn't compare to any of Jordan's carry-jobs

https://i.postimg.cc/MGR4Fm7m/GOATchipalltime.jpg

[8Ball]

Against a dog shit historical finals team.

[red1]

The same guys who beat Shaq, Hakeem & Duncan in the Playoffs in those years.

dude you're saying shaq like it was lakers shaq



lakers shaq aka prime shaq is practically undefeated except by the spurs











they never beat prime shaq :oldlol:

[MadDog]

jordan was too busy getting back-to-back rings off of stockton malone and hornacek :oldlol:

Interesting thought. But what does And1allday think? :oldlol:

[red1]

2017-2018 lebron could easily get back-to-back rings off of malone-stockton-hornacek



2018 lebron was an absolute monster....

[3ball]

But in the other threads you praised KD for letting Kyrie flourish and play to his capacity. But when it happens with LeBron he gets criticized. Literally no consistency and laughable double standards and hypocrisy :lol


KD has dynasties and demolishes opponents when he gets great 2nd option contributions, while Lebron's shit brand/skills need bailouts and suspensions to beat a Warrior team that was playing like dogshit (curry/klay wetting the bed)

[red1]

KD demolishes opponents when he gets great 2nd option contributions, while Lebron's shit brand/skills need bailouts and suspensions to beat a Warrior team that was playing like dogshit (curry/klay wetting the bed)

2018 lebron would beat every single one of jordan's finals opponents



he'd be the best player in every single series.

[ImKobe]

dude you're saying shaq like it was lakers shaq



lakers shaq aka prime shaq is practically undefeated except by the spurs











they never beat prime shaq :oldlol:

They swept a 61 - 21 Lakers squad that had 4 all-stars. Shaq was in his prime :kobe: .

[Shooter]

jordan fans are the single party that elevated lebron's status to an undisputed top-2 all-time



jordan fans are the ones who gave lebron all of these impossible hoops to jump through "you need a 3-peat or you aint shit. actually you need two."




how many wins does jordan - or anyone else all-time - how many wins do they have over a 70-win team?












:roll:

I've been saying it for a while. I strongly believe 3ball is a LeBron fan and secretly trying to boost his ranking and tear down Jordan's. No way any sane person would willingly bring this much heat to MJ and prop up LBJ if they didn't mean to.

LeBron in all honesty is cemented top 2 and I could argue LBJ #1 or #2. And that's a fact. MJ can be #2, #3, who knows but LBJ is clearly #1 or #2.

[SouBeachTalents]

KD has dynasties and demolishes opponents when he gets great 2nd option contributions, while Lebron's shit brand/skills need bailouts and suspensions to beat a Warrior team that was playing like dogshit (curry/klay wetting the bed)
Durant was on arguably the most talented team ever in Golden State, and even then they needed 7 games to get past the Rockets. The sample size is way too small to make any determination with Brooklyn

[Shooter]

But Kyrie had to play like Wilt to win that - so it's his ring

Kyrie outplayed Lebron in Game 5

Play like Wilt? I thought you routinely said Wilt was a playoff choker who consistently underperformed? Ah, I guess Kyrie did play like Wilt status then.

[red1]

They swept a 61 - 21 Lakers squad that had 4 all-stars. Shaq was in his prime :kobe: .

get the FUKK out of here.



the lakers werent shit until shaq AND kobe were shitting on the league.



what did shaq ever do without kobe da gawd (in his PRIME) or dwade da gawd?














thats right.

[SouBeachTalents]

2017-2018 lebron could easily get back-to-back rings off of malone-stockton-hornacek



2018 lebron was an absolute monster....
That's why the ring argument is faulty. You swap the '97/'98 Jazz with the '17/'18 Warriors and, best case scenario, Jordan & LeBron have 5 rings apiece

[Shooter]

The same guys who beat Shaq, Hakeem & Duncan in the Playoffs in those years.

Duncan? :lol 1998 rookie Duncan? That's your argument? That's an automatic failure of a premise. What's new with you :lol

[3ball]

I've been saying it for a while. I strongly believe 3ball is a LeBron fan and secretly trying to boost his ranking and tear down Jordan's. No way any sane person would willingly bring this much heat to MJ and prop up LBJ if they didn't mean to.

LeBron in all honesty is cemented top 2 and I could argue LBJ #1 or #2. And that's a fact. MJ can be #2, #3, who knows but LBJ is clearly #1 or #2.


Here's how we know Jordan's 93' performance was goat BAR NONE:

only MJ and Kobe averaged 30+ in a slow-paced Finals (under 90 pace)... And MJ averaged 41 in this scenario... :eek:

edit: peak Shaq averaged 30+ in 00'..

[Shooter]

2017-2018 lebron could easily get back-to-back rings off of malone-stockton-hornacek



2018 lebron was an absolute monster....

I almost think 2017 was even greater. I think that could have been his absolute peak. 34/12/10 on 54% in the Finals.

[red1]

That's why the ring argument is faulty. You swap the '97/'98 Jazz with the '17/'18 Warriors and, best case scenario, Jordan & LeBron have 5 rings apiece

2018 lebron is literally better than every single player jordan ever faced



we penalize lebron in 2018 for another finals loss in reality we should recognize him as the actual GOAT for getting those retards past 3 rounds....

[ImKobe]

Duncan? :lol 1998 rookie Duncan? That's your argument? That's an automatic failure of a premise. What's new with you :lol

Duncan wasn't your typical rookie at age 22, and David Robinson was still in his prime, but got shut down in that series.

[SouBeachTalents]

2018 lebron is literally better than every single player jordan ever faced



we penalize lebron in 2018 for another finals loss in reality we should recognize him as the actual GOAT for getting those retards past 3 rounds....
Game 1 of that Finals will always kill me. I would've fcking loved to see how that series plays out if the Cavs don't get screwed by the refs and win Game 1 on the heels of LeBron having arguably the best performance of his career

[ImKobe]

get the FUKK out of here.



the lakers werent shit until shaq AND kobe were shitting on the league.



what did shaq ever do without kobe da gawd (in his PRIME) or dwade da gawd?














thats right.

Exactly. Shaq is mad overrated and didn't win until Kobe took over the playmaking and closing duties. Still, the Lakers had a great team and ran through the Blazers & the 61-win Sonics before being swept by the Jazz.

[Shooter]

Game 1 of that Finals will always kill me. I would've fcking loved to see how that series plays out if the Cavs don't get screwed by the refs and win Game 1 on the heels of LeBron having arguably the best performance of his career

+1

51/8/8 what a show. Against a seemingly unbeatable opponent, with Jeff Green and George Hill.

[Shooter]

Duncan wasn't your typical rookie at age 22, and David Robinson was still in his prime, but got shut down in that series.

Know your history. 1998 was Duncan's first year in the NBA. What a flawed premise.

[Shooter]

2018 lebron is literally better than every single player jordan ever faced



we penalize lebron in 2018 for another finals loss in reality we should recognize him as the actual GOAT for getting those retards past 3 rounds....

It was the greatest full playoffs performance in NBA history

32.2 PER. Highest PER thru the Finals in NBA history.

[red1]

Game 1 of that Finals will always kill me. I would've fcking loved to see how that series plays out if the Cavs don't get screwed by the refs and win Game 1 on the heels of LeBron having arguably the best performance of his career

2018 is considered as a failure year for lebron


I actually watched all of those games, rooting against him the second round (FYI thats what caused derozan to get benched in the 4th quarter of a pivotal game, causing him to get traded aka creating kawhi's 2nd and final ring of his career)





lebron's career in cleveland is why is he is an ACTUAL legit GOAT candidate... he'd have 7 rings if he was drafted by pop...

[red1]

Exactly. Shaq is mad overrated and didn't win until Kobe took over the playmaking and closing duties. Still, the Lakers had a great team and ran through the Blazers & the 61-win Sonics before being swept by the Jazz.

lebron would have 5 rings by the time he was 25 if he was drafted to play with shaq...

[MadDog]

LeBron couldn't play with Pop. He cares too much about stats. It wasn't until recently he conceded to Davis - but a system taking the ball out of his hands? It wouldn't be pretty.

[Shooter]

LeBron couldn't play with Pop. He cares too much about stats. It wasn't until recently he conceded to Davis - but a system taking the ball out of his hands? It wouldn't be pretty.

Do you think a system where the player with the literal greatest combination of scoring/passing in NBA history should hold the ball less? Do you think you should take the ball out of a GOAT's hands and put it in Danny Green's or Thiago Splitter's more?

[red1]

LeBron couldn't play with Pop. He cares too much about stats. It wasn't until recently he conceded to Davis - but an offense taking the ball out of his hands? It wouldn't be pretty.

he got davis the easiest ring that he will ever get in his life :oldlol:




davis literally has zero leadership qualities aka zero hunger to be the GOAT he was meant to be. davis is arguably the best bigman in the entire league but you have to beg him to prove it. :oldlol:

[Shooter]

he got davis the easiest ring that he will ever get in his life :oldlol:




davis literally has zero leadership qualities aka zero hunger to be the GOAT he was meant to be. davis is arguably the best bigman in the entire league but you have to beg him to prove it. :oldlol:

And even then, with all of his injuries, who knows if he will be on the court to continue the series

[000]

Do you think a system where the player with the literal greatest combination of scoring/passing in NBA history should hold the ball less? Do you think you should take the ball out of a GOAT's hands and put it in Danny Green's or Thiago Splitter's more?
yeah, that sounds pretty dumb. jordan should always be allowed to do as much as he can

[ImKobe]

Know your history. 1998 was Duncan's first year in the NBA. What a flawed premise.

I know he was a ****ing rook you moron. I'm saying he was already close to a finished product in '98, as they went on and won it all the following year.

Point being, the Jazz were a great team. They had Hakeem's Rockets down 1 - 2 in a BO5 series before Drexler went ham on them in 2 elimination games in '95, they were a game away from making the Finals in '96.. You're acting as if the Jazz played in a weak Conference and weren't a great opponent. MJ had to be perfect in crunch time to avoid Game 7s in B2B years.

[red1]

Do you think a system where the player with the literal greatest combination of scoring/passing in NBA history should hold the ball less? Do you think you should take the ball out of a GOAT's hands and put it in Danny Green's or Thiago Splitter's more?

gregg popovich would literally trade his entire roster at a chance at coaching AD and lebron next season


pop is a very intelligent man - he knows what it takes to win in this league :oldlol:

[MadDog]

he got davis the easiest ring that he will ever get in his life :oldlol:




davis literally has zero leadership qualities aka zero hunger to be the GOAT he was meant to be. davis is arguably the best bigman in the entire league but you have to beg him to prove it. :oldlol:

Davis led the Lakers in playoff points and was their anchor, defensively. You got it backwards.

[Shooter]

I know he was a ****ing rook you moron. I'm saying he was already close to a finished product in '98, as they went on and won it all the following year.

Point being, the Jazz were a great team. They had Hakeem's Rockets down 1 - 2 in a BO5 series before Drexler went ham on them in 2 elimination games in '95, they were a game away from making the Finals in '96.. You're acting as if the Jazz played in a weak Conference and weren't a great opponent. MJ had to be perfect in crunch time to avoid Game 7s in B2B years.

So Season 1 Duncan is already close to a finished product? Okay that's fine. Just keep that same energy with Season 4, 2012 Durant then baby boi :pimp:

Check :dancin

Mate :lebronamazed:

[MadDog]

Do you think a system where the player with the literal greatest combination of scoring/passing in NBA history should hold the ball less? Do you think you should take the ball out of a GOAT's hands and put it in Danny Green's or Thiago Splitter's more?

The Spurs relied on off-ball movement and constant passing. LeBron holds the ball too long to be effective under Pop. Bad fit all-around.

[ImKobe]

lebron would have 5 rings by the time he was 25 if he was drafted to play with shaq...

No he wouldn't have. Shaq takes away those driving lanes from Lebron and Lebron wouldn't have been able to close games from the perimeter or from the FT line, nor play as well on the defensive end early in his career. Spurs exposed those weaknesses in his game in '07 by daring him to shoot while Kobe buried them from mid-range all those years and won one close game after another. I don't think Lebron's game is built well for the triangle offense, he's way too ball-dominant of a player and wasn't good enough as a shooter early on to fit in that system, and that lack of spacing & the early 2000s defense would expose those holes in his game.

[Shooter]

Davis led the Lakers in playoff points and was their anchor, defensively. You got it backwards.

Davis scored literally 2 more points in 21 games :lol

LeBron led in assists and rebounding and matched AD's scoring

[Shooter]

The Spurs relied on off-ball movement and constant passing. LeBron holds the ball too long to be effective under Pop. Bad fit all-around.

Yes, the sports greatest finisher, passer, scorer with the highest IQ would be a bad fit :lol

[red1]

Davis led the Lakers in playoff points and was their anchor, defensively. You got it backwards.

you couldnt be more wrong dude. :oldlol:


davis at this stage of their careers might be the more talented player - they'd have lost in the first two rounds against the rockets or blazers if davis was the leader of the team.




without lebron the lakers would be the worst team in the conference next year :oldlol:

[red1]

No he wouldn't have. Shaq takes away those driving lanes from Lebron and Lebron wouldn't have been able to close games from the perimeter or from the FT line, nor play as well on the defensive end early in his career. Spurs exposed those weaknesses in his game in '07 by daring him to shoot while Kobe buried them from mid-range all those years and won one close game after another. I don't think Lebron's game is built well for the triangle offense, he's way too ball-dominant of a player and wasn't good enough as a shooter early on to fit in that system, and that lack of spacing & the early 2000s defense would expose those holes in his game.

its ok if you want be honest or not.


lebron is a bad free-throw shooter. fair point.



lebron wasnt surrounded by absolute dogshit in 2007 and wouldnt have had a chance to win a legit ring with the actual diesel in his prime?





blatantly false.






thats why I say lebron would have 7 rings if he was DRAFTED by the lakers or spurs. it would be too easy compared to the actual BS he went through.

[MadDog]

Davis scored literally 2 more points in 21 games :lol

LeBron led in assists and rebounding and matched AD's scoring

So he led the Lakers in points, just like I said. :cheers:

AD's defensive impact >>>> LeBron's padded assists and rebounds. To back that up, AD led the Lakers in Playoff On/Off and Net Rating. Class in session.

[ImKobe]

So Season 1 Duncan is already close to a finished product? Okay that's fine. Just keep that same energy with Season 4, 2012 Durant then baby boi :pimp:

Check :dancin

Mate :lebronamazed:

Go watch the tape on late 90s Duncan, he was every bit as good as his prime self, just in smaller role as D-Rob was still a monster himself and anchored the defense as well as he ever had in his career.

[MadDog]

you couldnt be more wrong dude. :oldlol:


davis at this stage of their careers might be the more talented player - they'd have lost in the first two rounds against the rockets or blazers if davis was the leader of the team.




without lebron the lakers would be the worst team in the conference next year :oldlol:

That's not an opinion though. Nor can it be argued. Davis literally led the Lakers in postseason points, and was BY FAR their best defender. The Lakers were also better with AD on the court than with LeBron.

[Shooter]

So he led the Lakers in points, just like I said. :cheers:

AD's defensive impact >>>> LeBron's padded assists and rebounds. To back that up, AD led the Lakers in Playoff On/Off and Net Rating. Class in session.

And yet...

When it mattered most...

When the Finals came around...

https://i.postimg.cc/zXmWZh9G/we_win_again.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/15GRBn5Q/Le-Goat-Amazed.png

[red1]

That's not an opinion though. Nor can it be argued. Davis literally led the Lakers in postseason points, and was BY FAR their best defender. The Lakers were also better with AD on the court than with LeBron.

I was referring to importance beyoned specific stats. I dont even need to look at the stats because I already know how dependent the lakers are on the production from AD. They dont need AD to ball- they need him to be a SUPERSTAR if they have any intentions of winning anything aka lebron's 4th and now potentially 5th ring.


Which he is more than capable of providing. Hence providing lebron's 4th ring aka the bane of all of the haters existence. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

its ok if you want be honest or not.


lebron is a bad free-throw shooter. fair point.



lebron wasnt surrounded by absolute dogshit in 2007 and wouldnt have had a chance to win a legit ring with the actual diesel in his prime?





blatantly false.






thats why I say lebron would have 7 rings if he was DRAFTED by the lakers or spurs. it would be too easy compared to the actual BS he went through.

2007 was far more favorable for the perimeter player though, of course he'd get better looks with Shaq, but a younger Lebron wasn't known for his shooting nor his defense, he didn't go up a level until age 24 in '09. He had great RS averages before that but was held to 52%TS and below his RS scoring average & below 30% from 3 & from mid-range in '07 and '08 Playoffs.

This is just my honest opinion. Maybe the Lakers go a different route than the triangle offense with Lebron & Shaq and it works out for the better, but it's hard for me to believe that they win more than 3 with the Spurs and Kings in their Conference in that era. You might look back on Kobe's efficiency in the early 2000s and think Lebron would do better, but Kobe's 55%TS or whatever he had was way above the league average at the time and he ran the triangle as well as Scottie and Mike did.

[Hey Yo]

People always said that because Barkley had a negative perception defensively - but Majerle was all defense, while Oliver Miller was a leading shot-blocker and the Suns ranked barely behind the Bulls defensively.

And the pace was only 89 - only MJ and Kobe averaged 30+ in a under-90 pace Finals... And MJ averaged 41 in this scenario

edit: peak Shaq averaged 30+ in 00'

Oliver Miller didnt come close the being the blocks leader that year.... :oldlol:

Exposed again

[red1]

2007 was far more favorable for the perimeter player though, of course he'd get better looks with Shaq, but a younger Lebron wasn't known for his shooting nor his defense, he didn't go up a level until age 24 in '09. He had great RS averages before that but was held to 52%TS and below his RS scoring average & below 30% from 3 & from mid-range in '07 and '08 Playoffs.

This is just my honest opinion. Maybe the Lakers go a different route than the triangle offense with Lebron & Shaq and it works out for the better, but it's hard for me to believe that they win more than 3 with the Spurs and Kings in their Conference in that era. You might look back on Kobe's efficiency in the early 2000s and think Lebron would do better, but Kobe's 55%TS or whatever he had was way above the league average at the time and he ran the triangle as well as Scottie and Mike did.

Im not a kobe hater anymore


I actually let his fans get away with their many blatant falsehoods/delusions





kobe was lebron's only true rival. steph/kd/kawhi/etc never really measured up.

[Hey Yo]

Exactly. Shaq is mad overrated and didn't win until Kobe took over the playmaking and closing duties. Still, the Lakers had a great team and ran through the Blazers & the 61-win Sonics before being swept by the Jazz.

Kobe didn't have either of those jobs when Shaq dominated the 2000 Finals.

[MadDog]

I was referring to importance beyoned specific stats. I dont even need to look at the stats because I already know how dependent the lakers are on the production from AD. They dont need AD to ball- they need him to be a SUPERSTAR if they have any intentions of winning anything aka lebron's 4th and now potentially 5th ring.


Which he is more than capable of providing. Hence providing lebron's 4th ring aka the bane of all of the haters existence. :oldlol:

Those numbers reflect how you produce. They're also impact metrics showing the impact you had on the team. The Lakers FACTUALLY played better with AD on the court than vice versa. The candyass stats LeBron fans post simply don't compare. Those are amassed throughout a career.

[red1]

Those numbers reflect how you produce. They're also impact metrics showing the impact you had on the team. The Lakers FACTUALLY played better with AD on the court than vice versa. The candyass stats LeBron fans post simply don't compare. Those are amassed throughout a career.

boring.




they OBVIOUSLY played better with AD. :oldlol:

[MadDog]

boring.




they OBVIOUSLY played better with AD. :oldlol:

The Lakers played better with AD than with LeBron. Facts don't care about your feelings. :oldlol:

[72-10]

I didn't know which game you're alluding to, but at this point it was clear that they had a really good track record

[StrongLurk]

Exactly. Shaq is mad overrated and didn't win until Kobe took over the playmaking and closing duties. Still, the Lakers had a great team and ran through the Blazers & the 61-win Sonics before being swept by the Jazz.

:lol:lol:lol:oldlol::roll:

[Shooter]

:lol:lol:lol:oldlol::roll:

You see what I deal with? LOL

[ImKobe]

:lol:lol:lol:oldlol::roll:

Shaq had Eddie Jones & NVE and got beat down year after year before Kobe took over.

[Shooter]

The Lakers played better with AD than with LeBron. Facts don't care about your feelings. :oldlol:

Somebody get this guy the On/Off stats :lol He seems confused. Woefully confused.

[StrongLurk]

Shaq had Eddie Jones & NVE and got beat down year after year before Kobe took over.

Yeah Kobe really took over in 99-2000, mmhmm yep that's what totally happened. You have a reality which no one else shares except for other delusional Kobe stans. Might as well go all the way and just say Kobe was the best player on the Lakers during his rookie season.

[MadDog]

Somebody get this guy the On/Off stats :lol He seems confused. Woefully confused.

LeBron fans seeing stars lol. In the playoffs, AD was +11.7 OnCourt while LeBron was +11.4. On-Off, AD was +17.4 and LeBron was +15.3

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2020.html

King Davis! :applause:

[ImKobe]

Somebody get this guy the On/Off stats :lol He seems confused. Woefully confused.

https://i.gyazo.com/7ad4c8af745be401bb9304190cbb9f6e.png

[MadDog]

Kobe "rescuing" Shaq in order to win is equivalent to saying Pippen saved Jordan. It doesn't sound right. :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Yeah Kobe really took over in 99-2000, mmhmm yep that's what totally happened. You have a reality which no one else shares except for other delusional Kobe stans. Might as well go all the way and just say Kobe was the best player on the Lakers during his rookie season.

Game 7 vs Portland

Kobe - 25/11/7 4 blocks (led Lakers in every stat), Shaq 18/9/5 1 block

Kobe got them over the hump when a Shaq-led team in years past would have choked that type of a game.

[Shooter]

https://i.gyazo.com/7ad4c8af745be401bb9304190cbb9f6e.png

Fake.

Link?

[MadDog]

Fake.

Link?

Dry your eyes, shooter :oldlol:

[StrongLurk]

Game 7 vs Portland

Kobe - 25/11/7 4 blocks (led Lakers in every stat), Shaq 18/9/5 1 block

Kobe got them over the hump when a Shaq-led team in years past would have choked that type of a game.

Yep, one game is all that happened in those playoffs. Game 7 vs portland, no other games those playoffs. What's is like being a delusional stan? Is it hard to enjoy basketball outside of Kobe?

[Shooter]

Dry your eyes, shooter :oldlol:

Link?

[MadDog]

Dry your eyes, shooter :oldlol:

Go back a page. I already linked the data.

[Shooter]

Go back a page. I already linked the data.

Not bball ref you newbert, I'm talking about the one ImKobe falsified.

[ImKobe]

Yep, one game is all that happened in those playoffs. Game 7 vs portland, no other games those playoffs. What's is like being a delusional stan? Is it hard to enjoy basketball outside of Kobe?

It's not one game. It's THE game. Shaq was dominant. He was at his best in 2000. I didn't say that he wasn't the best overall player that year, just that Lakers finally started winning championships when Kobe broke out as a star; as the facilitator and the closer of the team.

[MadDog]

Not bball ref you newbert, I'm talking about the one ImKobe falsified.

What are you crying about now? They both say AD had more impact lol

[ImKobe]

Not bball ref you newbert, I'm talking about the one ImKobe falsified.

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612747&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=2544,203076

[3ball]

Btw, Jordan averaged 41 with pure BASKETBALL (2-pointers - dude was ballin')

Actually, he shot 40% on 4 threes a game, so the perfect mix

[Shooter]

https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612747&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Playoffs&PlayerIds=2544,203076

Just as I thought

https://i.postimg.cc/L5SpqSgp/123-winner-chx-dinner.png

[Smoke117]

Btw, Jordan averaged 41 with pure BASKETBALL (2-pointers - dude was ballin')

Actually, he shot 40% on 4 threes a game, so the perfect mix

https://i.postimg.cc/MGR4Fm7m/GOATchipalltime.jpg

[MadDog]

Just as I thought

https://i.postimg.cc/L5SpqSgp/123-winner-chx-dinner.png

We already know LeBron loves to statpad in the regular-season. We're talking about the playoffs though. Keep up! :oldlol:

[Shooter]

We already know LeBron loves to statpad in the regular-season. We're talking about the playoffs though. Keep up! :oldlol:

This guy tried to use a 196 minute sample size :lol That's 5 games at 39.2 min/game

Keep up :lol

LeImpact > Brittle Boi AD

[aj1987]

We already know LeBron loves to statpad in the regular-season. We're talking about the playoffs though. Keep up! :oldlol:

And LeBron is the GOAT elimination game player and GOAT G7 player in NBA history. He's also the only player not named MJ with at least 4 FMVP's. Those are PO records, retard. :cheers:

[MadDog]

This guy tried to use a 196 minute sample size :lol That's 5 games at 39.2 min/game

Keep up :lol

LeImpact > Brittle Boi AD

Imagine thinking a full title run is a "small" sample. While you think of another argument, its still King Davis' team. :oldlol:


And LeBron is the GOAT elimination game player

True. He's the GOAT at being eliminated. LeBron's got the most finals losses of any player. Ever. I wouldn't cry over spilled milk.

[Shooter]

Imagine thinking a full title run is a "small" sample. While you think of another argument, its still King Davis' team. :oldlol:



True. He's the GOAT at being eliminated. LeBron's got the most finals losses of any player. Ever. I wouldn't cry over spilled milk.

They didn't play separately for the full title run. AD played 196 minutes. Again.

Divide the total minutes of 196 by 39.2 mpg that is 5 games. You're using a 5-game sample. Keep. Up.

[MadDog]

They didn't play separately for the full title run. AD played 196 minutes. Again.

Divide the total minutes of 196 by 39.2 mpg that is 5 games. You're using a 5-game sample. Keep. Up.

I already posted FULL data from b-ref. :confusedshrug: AD played 769 minutes to LeBron's 762. AD had more OnCourt impact. He also had more On/Off impact. Anything else?

[ImKobe]

Just as I thought



Just as you thought what? We're talking Playoffs, not Regular Season :facepalm . AD led the Lakers in everything but assists in the RS, btw.

[Shooter]

I already posted FULL data from b-ref. :confusedshrug: AD played 769 minutes to LeBron's 762. AD had more OnCourt impact. He also had more On/Off impact. Anything else?

Nah I think we're good

https://i.postimg.cc/sfByTVRw/bran_dominates_20_finals.png

https://i.postimg.cc/q7Sd44Mw/LeQuatro_Set_lebar.png

[MadDog]

LeBron fans move goalposts like their hero switches teams. C'mon Shooter. I expected more from you :whatever:

[Shooter]

Just as you thought what? We're talking Playoffs, not Regular Season :facepalm . AD led the Lakers in everything but assists in the RS, btw.

The 196 minute, 5 game sample? When you do the entire season...You know better :lol

#Caught

[ImKobe]

The 196 minute, 5 game sample? When you do the entire season...You know better :lol

#Caught

So Lakers were in fact much better with AD on/Lebron off in the Playoffs than the other way around, got it.

[72-10]

I'm not sure why Kobe is being brought into a discussion about MJ in the '93 Finals, the Suns guarded Michael in vain by throwing various defenses at him and on and off resorting to scoring on collapsing defenses and keep hitting the open man in the triangle, Michael had 7 or more assists in half of the series' games, and unlike Kobe they were lean on Michael with his assists. Despite the numbers Michael didn't chuck.

Kobe was the Biggest Gun in the West. He made Gervin, who never reached the Finals, look like a passer.

[aj1987]

So Lakers were in fact much better with AD on/Lebron off in the Playoffs than the other way around, got it.

That's not how it works, you pea brained idiot.

[And1AllDay]

Nah I think we're good

https://i.postimg.cc/sfByTVRw/bran_dominates_20_finals.png

https://i.postimg.cc/q7Sd44Mw/LeQuatro_Set_lebar.png

Now tell us all about them Jordan chips :lol

https://media.giphy.com/media/xtuJ917QyMHZ2UyMfJ/giphy.gif

[Axe]

Another useless thread by op to embarrass mj fans and beg for the attention of his haters.

[dankok8]

cause the Suns defense was a joke

Actually the 92-93 Suns would have the best DRtg in the current NBA. In that league they were 9th of 27 teams.

[2ball]

MJ was the only one that could beat a colluded team while carrying a terrible 2nd option

[000]

some other really good performances:
2000 shaq who won in the finals despite kobes injury, albeit against a weak team
2019 kawhi who carried lowry to title, albeit only vs curry rather than curry and durant
2020 davis who carried the 2019 lottery lakers to ring

[aj1987]

True. He's the GOAT at being eliminated. LeBron's got the most finals losses of any player. Ever. I wouldn't cry over spilled milk.

At least his entire legacy doesn't depend on one player like Ordan. Dude NEVER had a winning record without Pippen. Let that sink in. A cancerous career loser.

[72-10]

Actually the 92-93 Suns would have the best DRtg in the current NBA. In that league they were 9th of 27 teams.

Not surprised, very deep team like the Knicks

[72-10]

Wowie, I'd say it's because of Gm 4

my mistake, I meant Game 3:kobe:

[bullettooth]

how many 70-win victories?

72 of them in 1996.

How many for LeBum?