Let's face it, this era has so many flawed players winning MVP.

[ClipperRevival]

Look at the list of winners starting from 1980, which most consider the "modern" era.

https://www.nba.com/history/awards/mvp

It isn't until 2005 when we see someone that earns a questionable MVP. Then we have guys like Rose, Westbrook, Giannis and Jokic. No one is saying that these guys didn't deserve the award but it's the fact that they actually DID that makes one question what is going on. Let's face it, does anyone see any of the aforementioned guys winning an MVP in the 1980's and 1990's when you consider who was in the league at the time?

Jokic is completely being exposed as being nothing but a better version of a Vlade Divac. He is a slow, plodder who can't play a lick of D that just put up "historically" great numbers. Something is off.

[And1AllDay]

3ball give it a rest

no one respects 90s ball

[Smoke117]

Look at the list of winners starting from 1980, which most consider the "modern" era.

https://www.nba.com/history/awards/mvp

It isn't until 2005 when we see someone that earns a questionable MVP. Then we have guys like Rose, Westbrook, Giannis and Jokic. No one is saying that these guys didn't deserve the award but it's the fact that they actually DID that makes one question what is going on. Let's face it, does anyone see any of the aforementioned guys winning an MVP in the 1980's and 1990's when you consider who was in the league at the time?

Jokic is completely being exposed as being nothing but a better version of a Vlade Divac.He is a slow, plodder who can't play a lick of D that just put up "historically" great numbers. Something is off.

OP with one of his usual retard takes.

[ClipperRevival]

Ask yourself, how does a 36 year old vet who lost a lot of his prime athleticism still be a more impactful player than the reigning MVP? Why? Because the game today is flawed. CP3 has mastered the mid-range. That is guaranteed buckets in the half court. That is shot outlawed in today's game yet playoff time, it trumps all.

[And1AllDay]

Ask yourself, how does a 36 year old vet who lost a lot of his prime athleticism still be a more impactful player than the reigning MVP? Why? Because the game today is flawed. CP3 has mastered the mid-range. That is guaranteed buckets in the half court. That is shot outlawed in today's game yet playoff time, it trumps all.

all 14 ppg of him right?

c-14-p-p-g :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

Ayton, who is a mid-tier C in the mold of a Brad Daugherty C is giving it to the reiging MVP. LOL. You can't make thie sh*t up.

[MadDog]

He's not just a better player than Divac. He's A LOT better. They're both great passers, but Jokic can bring the ball up the court and shoot threes. All in all Joker has a better scoring arsenal. The premise of your thread is interesting though. I can see where you're coming from.

[And1AllDay]

Ayton, who is a mid-tier C in the mold of a Brad Daugherty C is giving it to the reiging MVP. LOL. You can't make thie sh*t up.

wait you care about defense now? i thought it was just ppgz?


pick one quick

[ClipperRevival]

all 14 ppg of him right?

c-14-p-p-g :oldlol:

Watch the games instead of focusing on bball ref for a change babyboi.

[1987_Lakers]

Jokic is the greatest passing center in NBA history, it's always easier to criticize players when their careers are not over yet, same for Giannis, he is an absolute monster finisher & defender who just can't shoot. Rose & Westbrook are weak MVPs, but I have a feeling history will look at Giannis & Jokic in a more positive light, I agree they will probably never reach the level of most of those MVPs of the 80's & 90's, but lets be fair and see how their careers progress.

[And1AllDay]

Watch the games instead of focusing on bball ref for a change babyboi.

this boi went from loving ppgz to talkin bout defense :oldlol: joker gott'm shooketh

[Smoke117]

Ask yourself, how does a 36 year old vet who lost a lot of his prime athleticism still be a more impactful player than the reigning MVP? Why? Because the game today is flawed. CP3 has mastered the mid-range. That is guaranteed buckets in the half court. That is shot outlawed in today's game yet playoff time, it trumps all.

It’s not really outlawed so much that so few guys can hit it with any consistency these days since nobody practices it anymore. Obsession with 3 ball has killed it. Few elite guys like Paul and Kawhi left.

[ClipperRevival]

He's not just a better player than Divac. He's A LOT better. They're both great passers, but Jokic can bring the ball up the court and shoot threes. All in all Joker has a better scoring arsenal. The premise of your thread is interesting though. I can see where you're coming from.

I said Jokic is a better version, so I concede the edge to him but people sleeping on Divac. Divac was one of the better passing bigs ever too. He could shoot too. But he was completely hampered in the clogged era and the intense comp at his position. You put him in this no D, wide open era, he looks a lot better. He was a high IQ guy, a hell of a flopper too though LOL.

[Spurs m8]

The year Harden got an MVP was the year it confirmed it became a meaningless award.

Rewarding unwatchable players making a mockery of the game

Then he had to join 2 all stars and other very good pieces to actually get anywhere

[ClipperRevival]

The fact that a guy like Doncic is averaging nearly 30/10/10 is a joke. Now, am I saying he would "suck" in the 1990's? Of course not. Only an idiot would think that. Dudes got game, skills, confidence, etc so he would ball in any era. But would he be this fresh? He'll no. Why? Because of the rules, the softness, etc. Players today have free reign and can't be touched. You allow a defender to put a hand on the hip and start bodying guys up and see how quickly you can slow down an offensive player.

[1987_Lakers]

The fact that a guy like Doncic is averaging nearly 30/10/10 is a joke. Now, am I saying he would "suck" in the 1990's? Of course not. Only an idiot would think that. Dudes got game, skills, confidence, etc so he would ball in any era. But would he be this fresh? He'll no. Why? Because of the rules, the softness, etc. Players today have free reign and can't be touched. You allow a defender to put a hand on the hip and start bodying guys up and see how quickly you can slow down an offensive player.

You couldn't even play zone in the 90's and had a WNBA 3 point line, superstars today would feast on that weak ass era.

/thread.

[90sgoat]

Stats shouldn't be a factor anymore in considering a player.

It should all be eye test today.

Everyone can get 30-10-10 now.

Use the eye test.

[ClipperRevival]

Jokic is the greatest passing center in NBA history, it's always easier to criticize players when their careers are not over yet, same for Giannis, he is an absolute monster finisher & defender who just can't shoot. Rose & Westbrook are weak MVPs, but I have a feeling history will look at Giannis & Jokic in a more positive light, I agree they will probably never reach the level of most of those MVPs of the 80's & 90's, but lets be fair and see how their careers progress.

You can't say Jokic is for sure. Past great passing bigs didn't play in this favorable era where the court is completely spaced out.

[plowking]

An incredible display of a stupid *opinion*.

Carried Denver. Look at the team he has. One of the best centers ever.

[1987_Lakers]

You can't say Jokic is for sure. Past great passing bigs didn't play in this favorable era where the court is completely spaced out.

I can say Jokic for sure, no center in history has had his ball-handling/passing ability. That's what seperates Jokic from other all-time great passing bigs like Walton & Sabonis, he can make a pass from anywhere on the court.

[ClipperRevival]

You couldn't even play zone in the 90's and had a WNBA 3 point line, superstars today would feast on that weak ass era.

/thread.

I always laugh when people bring up the zone thing. I know some players and coaches will say it was a factor but it's not like playing bball is binary in that you are either in man or zone. You can always cheat, hedge, etc. You could always throw doubles. The fact is, it was much harder to score back on the days due to the no 3 second rule and lack of spacing, etc. We're they "dumb" for not spacing out the court? In retrospect, for sure. But they played in a much tougher era to score. And you add in the much tougher physicality allowed?

[ClipperRevival]

An incredible display of a stupid *opinion*.

Carried Denver. Look at the team he has. One of the best centers ever.

He just carried them to a 2nd round sweep...LOSS

[1987_Lakers]

He just carried them to a 2nd round sweep...LOSS

Without his best teammate, way to be logical.

[plowking]

He just carried them to a 2nd round sweep...LOSS

Dozier, Murray, Barton all out or missed time.

Rivers was a starter in the playoffs. Really stacked...

You are a dead set bell end. Just like a lot on here, you fit in well.

[fourkicks44]

Hey OP, who do you think should have been MVP?

[imdaman99]

Nope. Jokic deserved it 100%. Stop the complaining

[ClipperRevival]

Without his best teammate, way to be logical.

He hasn't balled out either though. And he's got a mid-tier guy guarding him. Imagine if a legit all time great C went up against him, using their superior athleticism against this plodder?

[ClipperRevival]

And like I said in my OP, I said Jokic DESERVED to win the award. But for me, it's the fact that he actually did win it which makes me question this era. Do you see the difference? How does someone like him win it? Would Jokic smell the MVP in the 1980's and 1990's? He'll no.

[And1AllDay]

You couldn't even play zone in the 90's and had a WNBA 3 point line, superstars today would feast on that weak ass era.

/thread.

:lebronamazed:

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUPGcng62PSdZOe0vK/giphy.gif

issa wrapppppppp

[And1AllDay]

He just carried them to a 2nd round sweep...LOSS


Without his best teammate, way to be logical.


exactly

mike couldnt even win a playoff game without pip and here is jokic winning a full series without murray

joker > mike

good job 3ball/op

[MadDog]

And like I said in my OP, I said Jokic DESERVED to win the award. But for me, it's the fact that he actually did win it which makes me question this era. Do you see the difference? How does someone like him win it? Would Jokic smell the MVP in the 1980's and 1990's? He'll no.

Kareem, Magic, Bird, Moses, Erving, Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, Robinson. Those were the MVPs in the 80s and 90s. You're right. Not likely he'd win it over them. Of course, it would also depend on who you surround him with.

[ClipperRevival]

So to recap, a 36 year old vet, who lost most of his peak athleticism, still outperformed the reigning MVP due to his mastery of the mid-range. While the MVP got outplayed by a Brad Daugherty type, mid-tier C. But the analytics say the midrange is a terrible shot. LOL. Playoff bball is different from the wide-open, transition game of the reg season. That is not reall bball. Playoff bball is with the additional physicality allowed, which allows you to move guys off their spot.

[fourkicks44]

That's a 1* from me, dawg.

[FKAri]

I'm not a big fan of this era but I have no doubt that today the average ability level of the pro player is higher than at any other point in the past. Now you could say things like "these guys can't post up or those old guys can't shoot 3's" so I am saying relative to whatever ability is prized for their own era, the current player is better.

[Axe]

Has there been an mvp from op's team? Sorry but i just can't seem to recall any.

[And1AllDay]

Has there been an mvp from op's team? Sorry but i just can't seem to recall any.

its a 3ball alt hidden under clippers garb

beware :oldlol:

[iamgine]

Let's face it, does anyone see any of the aforementioned guys winning an MVP in the 1980's and 1990's when you consider who was in the league at the time?


That is a dumb point because you can easily ask the same question in 2010s. Did anyone see Rose or Westbrook winning with Lebron, Kobe, Curry, Durant, CP, Kawhi, Wade around?

[Akeem34TheDream]

MVP award has turned into more of a best story award than best player award.

[Shooter]

its a 3ball alt hidden under clippers garb

beware :oldlol:

+1

OP = sad

[tontoz]

Look at the list of winners starting from 1980, which most consider the "modern" era.

https://www.nba.com/history/awards/mvp

It isn't until 2005 when we see someone that earns a questionable MVP. Then we have guys like Rose, Westbrook, Giannis and Jokic. No one is saying that these guys didn't deserve the award but it's the fact that they actually DID that makes one question what is going on. Let's face it, does anyone see any of the aforementioned guys winning an MVP in the 1980's and 1990's when you consider who was in the league at the time?

Jokic is completely being exposed as being nothing but a better version of a Vlade Divac. He is a slow, plodder who can't play a lick of D that just put up "historically" great numbers. Something is off.


How exactly has Jokic been exposed? He has overachieved in the playoffs for the second consecutive year.

He beat Portland with a starting backcourt of Compazo (30 yr old rookie) and Rivers (picked up midseason on a 10 day contract). He also closed the season with a stellar record without his starting backcourt.

[72-10]

most unlikeable players in the world

more unlikeable than Yankees

don't stay seething over LeBron, though, first ask yourself how much of it is STRENGTH and how much of it is skill:oldlol:

[72-10]

I'm not a big fan of this era but I have no doubt that today the average ability level of the pro player is higher than at any other point in the past. Now you could say things like "these guys can't post up or those old guys can't shoot 3's" so I am saying relative to whatever ability is prized for their own era, the current player is better.

so what you're saying is because there's more strength now, some really tight moves

it's so lacking in fundamental soundness it's appalling

[tpols]

Jokic was playing with zero all stars while Phoenix had Chris Paul Devin Booker and Ayton... along with Bridges who is a borderline all star talent. Michael Jordan himself wouldve lost to the suns with the nuggets roster relying on will barton and Austin rivers as his best side creators. Oh and that Morris guy. Real studs.

But I do agree with some of the other guys. They get huge stats in regular season but flaws shine through in the playoffs when teams scheme them for their critical weakness.

[tpols]

How exactly has Jokic been exposed? He has overachieved in the playoffs for the second consecutive year.

He beat Portland with a starting backcourt of Compazo (30 yr old rookie) and Rivers (picked up midseason on a 10 day contract). He also closed the season with a stellar record without his starting backcourt.

Yup OP a dumbass for that one. Jokic is leading a D-league team fairly deep into the playoffs.

[tpols]

So to recap, a 36 year old vet, who lost most of his peak athleticism, still outperformed the reigning MVP due to his mastery of the mid-range. While the MVP got outplayed by a Brad Daugherty type, mid-tier C. But the analytics say the midrange is a terrible shot. LOL. Playoff bball is different from the wide-open, transition game of the reg season. That is not reall bball. Playoff bball is with the additional physicality allowed, which allows you to move guys off their spot.

Chris Paul had Devin Booker and Ayton and Bridges on his side all guys who are all star talents. Along with great bench help. Jokic had will Barton, that 5'8 euro dude, and Austin rivers as his creators. There's nobody in the history of the NBA that's winning with that kind of help disparity.

You're being a dumbass by boiling down this matchup to Chris Paul vs Jokic.

[ShawkFactory]

It's nothing other than the truly elite players not caring about the regular season and/or load managing. MVP is now for guys who have something to prove.

[Shooter]

You couldn't even play zone in the 90's and had a WNBA 3 point line, superstars today would feast on that weak ass era.

/thread.


:lebronamazed:

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUPGcng62PSdZOe0vK/giphy.gif

issa wrapppppppp


exactly

mike couldnt even win a playoff game without pip and here is jokic winning a full series without murray

joker > mike

good job 3ball/op

Bang!

[CountDracula]

https://i.ibb.co/xmYftx5/54-C9-EDDB-C687-4394-A49-F-AA9-EB29-DB250.jpg (https://ibb.co/pWQRBYX)

https://i.ibb.co/FKwTBzN/3-E0-E126-A-AD4-C-4-C0-B-BCEA-34-DEB6287979.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[ClipperRevival]

How exactly has Jokic been exposed? He has overachieved in the playoffs for the second consecutive year.

He beat Portland with a starting backcourt of Compazo (30 yr old rookie) and Rivers (picked up midseason on a 10 day contract). He also closed the season with a stellar record without his starting backcourt.

You're right, I was being too harsh on Jokic this series. But still, he was being guarded by a mid-tier C, not an an Embiid or Davis. Yeah, his supporting cast was subpar but I guess I expected more from the reigning MVP.

[And1AllDay]

Look at the list of winners starting from 1980, which most consider the "modern" era.

https://www.nba.com/history/awards/mvp

It isn't until 2005 when we see someone that earns a questionable MVP. Then we have guys like Rose, Westbrook, Giannis and Jokic. No one is saying that these guys didn't deserve the award but it's the fact that they actually DID that makes one question what is going on. Let's face it, does anyone see any of the aforementioned guys winning an MVP in the 1980's and 1990's when you consider who was in the league at the time?

Jokic is completely being exposed as being nothing but a better version of a Vlade Divac. He is a slow, plodder who can't play a lick of D that just put up "historically" great numbers. Something is off.

3balllllllllllllllllllllllllll