Pippen lacks the breakdown ability off-the-dribble required to be perimeter star now

[3ball]

so he would be like Jeff Green, not Paul George...

Pippen always got "flow" points and was a bad iso player or shooter.

Accordingly, George and Pippen actually don't play alike - Pippen is Jeff Green with a little Draymond, aka role player today.

Btw, today's three-point format allows ANYONE to be a "pippen"... Marcus Morris and Jeff Green scored better than Pippen because a few threes is all it takes to have more offensive impact than Pippen..

So today's format is built for Jordan - pippens are everywhere - Jordan benefits the most because he's the only player in history that commands doubles as the ball-handler and post player, so he's creating more "pippens" than anyone.

[Shooter]

1-9

[Real Men Wear Green]

1-9

[8Ball]

1-9

:bowdown:

[Shooter]

1-9

:bowdown:

[And1AllDay]

1-9


1-9
1-9

[Phoenix]

1-9

[3ball]

1-9


Everyone that wasn't drafted to a good team fails to win a series in their first few years.. except Bird or Robinson.

Ultimately, only Jordan won with Pippen

[TheCorporation]

1-9

[3ball]

1-9


It makes sense that the biggest knock on the GOAT is something that everyone does (not win a series in their first few year).

Ultimately, Lebron got 3 years to develop into a high seed before entering the playoffs in 2006, while Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as the 8 seed.. So 1-9 compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year 8 seeds, aka dumb
..

[HoopsNY]

Why can't 3ball be permanently banned? Like seriously. This level of obsession and non-sensical analyses on a consistent basis is beyond irritating.

[Turbo Slayer]

so he would be like Jeff Green, not Paul George...

Pippen always got "flow" points and was a bad iso player or shooter.

Accordingly, George and Pippen actually don't play alike - Pippen is Jeff Green with a little Draymond, aka role player today.

Btw, today's three-point format allows ANYONE to be a "pippen"... Marcus Morris and Jeff Green scored better than Pippen because a few threes is all it takes to have more offensive impact than Pippen..

So today's format is built for Jordan - pippens are everywhere - Jordan benefits the most because he's the only player in history that commands doubles as the ball-handler and post player, so he's creating more "pippens" than anyone. Jeff Green :oldlol:

[3ball]

1-9


05' ZYDRUNAS.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. all-star
88' PIPPEN............ 8/5 and 0.7 blocks.. 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. bench-warmer


Pippen was an 8 ppg rookie that MJ carried to the 2nd Round or ECF, while Lebron needed a 2-time all-star center to make the 06' Playoffs, along with a 22/5/5 acquisition and the future COY.

So Lebron always had high seeds and decorated teammates in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan carried low seeds and undecorated role players in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

[3ball]

Jeff Green :oldlol:


With a little Draymond, aka role player.. Although Pippen averaged far less assists than Dray

[j3lademaster]

so he would be like Jeff Green, not Paul George...

Pippen always got "flow" points and was a bad iso player or shooter.

Accordingly, George and Pippen actually don't play alike - Pippen is Jeff Green with a little Draymond, aka role player today.

Btw, today's three-point format allows ANYONE to be a "pippen"... Marcus Morris and Jeff Green scored better than Pippen because a few threes is all it takes to have more offensive impact than Pippen..

So today's format is built for Jordan - pippens are everywhere - Jordan benefits the most because he's the only player in history that commands doubles as the ball-handler and post player, so he's creating more "pippens" than anyone.So Pippen, who was a top 5-10 player in his day, would only be a Jeff Green/ Draymond Green hybrid in today's game? You realize this post doesn't help Jordan's case, right?

[3ball]

1-9



* The 04' Cavs had zero all-stars, while the 05' Cavs had 2

THAT'S IMPROVEMENT


* The 06' Cavs added a 22/5/5 all-defender to their all-star duo, along with the future COY

THAT'S IMPROVEMENT


So again, Lebron's first teams had several seasons to develop before entering the playoffs as favored, high seeds in 06' or 20', while Jordan's first teams were forced into the playoffs as 8 seeds in Year 1.

So the phrase "1-9" compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year eight seeds.

But when Jordan had 3 healthy seasons to develop his team (88'), he won 50 games and made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron... In his 4th healthy season (89'), Jordan was vastly outperforming Lebron against the champs.

Ultimately, the first low seed of Lebron's career equaled 1st Round loss (2021), just like Jordan's rookie and sophomore low seeds.. Otoh, prime Jordan's low seed kicked everyone's ass in 89'.

[3ball]

So Pippen, who was a top 5-10 player in his day, would only be a Jeff Green/ Draymond Green hybrid in today's game? You realize this post doesn't help Jordan's case, right?


It means he carried bums to titles, like Dirk in 2011

He did this by having the goat production rate and clutch, while being the GOAT 2-way player

Infact, Jason Terry outperformed Pippen on most championship runs, and there's a much bigger gap statistically between MJ/Pippen then Dirk/Terry.. so all 6 of Jordan's rings are bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk

[SouBeachTalents]

1-9

[HoopsNY]

So Pippen, who was a top 5-10 player in his day, would only be a Jeff Green/ Draymond Green hybrid in today's game? You realize this post doesn't help Jordan's case, right?

Exactly. At the worst you would say Pippen was a top 10 player (really top 8). If Pippen is such "trash," as this ignoramus puts it, then what does that make the entire league that he played in?

[3ball]

Exactly. At the worst you would say Pippen was a top 10 player (really top 8). If Pippen is such "trash," as this ignoramus puts it, then what does that make the entire league that he played in?


Was the league trash when Dirk won in 2011?

Jordan has 6 rings that were bigger carry-jobs

Jason Terry outperformed Pippen on most championship runs, and there's a much bigger gap statistically between MJ/Pippen then Dirk/Terry.. so all 6 of Jordan's rings are bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk

[Phoenix]

Why can't 3ball be permanently banned? Like seriously. This level of obsession and non-sensical analyses on a consistent basis is beyond irritating.

He draws traffic, even if its 100 1-9 replies. Hell, we got a mod on the first page doing it. And by now, if it's not clear, the owners of this forum dont give a fu-ck about the quality of discussion. Believe me, I've been a mod on other forums years ago. It ain't rocket science to keep it clean.

What's going on here is at the least, tacitly accepted by those who run this place. Theres an MO to occasionally act like this isnt tolerated with bullshit one-day bans to make it seen like theres some level of moderation to the endless trolling. It's all bullshit, and they'll all in on it, 3ball included. Rememer when Kblaze did his little 'clean up the board' exercise last year? And we were told changing the board to a new format undid the bans? I'll stop short of calling that little excuse bullshit, but why werent the bans re-instituted if it was a simple tech issue? I wouldn't be surprised if 3ball is cut a check every month.There's simply no other explanation. So, we can all ignore 3ball, or continue to 1-9 his threads, but we're all doing the same shit by feeding into it, including calls to ban him.

[SouBeachTalents]

Was the league trash when Dirk won in 2011?

Jordan has 6 rings that were bigger carry-jobs

Jason Terry outperformed Pippen on most championship runs, and there's a much bigger gap statistically between MJ/Pippen then Dirk/Terry.. so all 6 of Jordan's rings are bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk
Do you seriously not realize you're comparing one season to an entire decade :oldlol: It's a retarded comparison, and the other posters are right, claiming a 7x All-NBA player was garbage only proves Jordan's era was weak AF

[3ball]

Do you seriously not realize you're comparing one season to an entire decade :oldlol: It's a retarded comparison, and the other posters are right, claiming a 7x All-NBA player was garbage only proves Jordan's era was weak AF


Pippen was overrated.. That's the whole point

A player that produces like Pippen is trash... Period...

Who cares about media awards?... Was Kobe a good defender all those years he made all-defense?...

Similarly, the winning spotlight inflated Pippen's accolades... Guys like Kemp and others were completely dominant players, while Pippen's Jeff Green caliber was getting the award.

[90sgoat]

I could never break anyone of the dribble.

The reason was that I didn't carry.

I dribbled the ball like Jerry West like you're supposed to.

[AirBonner]

1-9

[Bronbron23]

so he would be like Jeff Green, not Paul George...

Pippen always got "flow" points and was a bad iso player or shooter.

Accordingly, George and Pippen actually don't play alike - Pippen is Jeff Green with a little Draymond, aka role player today.

Btw, today's three-point format allows ANYONE to be a "pippen"... Marcus Morris and Jeff Green scored better than Pippen because a few threes is all it takes to have more offensive impact than Pippen..

So today's format is built for Jordan - pippens are everywhere - Jordan benefits the most because he's the only player in history that commands doubles as the ball-handler and post player, so he's creating more "pippens" than anyone.

I would of thought the same until kawhi came along and done what he's done. He's stiff and has limited moves like pip but he thrives in this easy era.

[And1AllDay]

still 1-9

[SATAN]

So Pippen, who was a top 5-10 player in his day, would only be a Jeff Green/ Draymond Green hybrid in today's game? You realize this post doesn't help Jordan's case, right?

Exactly. 3ball is beyond stupid.

[ImKobe]

So Pippen, who was a top 5-10 player in his day, would only be a Jeff Green/ Draymond Green hybrid in today's game? You realize this post doesn't help Jordan's case, right?

Pippen was not a top 5 player in the 90s, please stop this nonsense. He had a few great years, but he was never better than Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, D-Rob, Shaq, Ewing etc..

[SATAN]

Pippen was not a top 5 player in the 90s, please stop this nonsense. He had a few great years, but he was never better than Jordan, Hakeem, Barkley, Malone, D-Rob, Shaq, Ewing etc..

He said 5-10

[8Ball]

1-9

1-9?

[FKAri]

* The 04' Cavs had zero all-stars, while the 05' Cavs had 2

THAT'S IMPROVEMENT


* The 06' Cavs added a 22/5/5 all-defender to their all-star duo, along with the future COY

THAT'S IMPROVEMENT


So again, Lebron's first teams had several seasons to develop before entering the playoffs as favored, high seeds in 06' or 20', while Jordan's first teams were forced into the playoffs as 8 seeds in Year 1.

So the phrase "1-9" compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year eight seeds.

But when Jordan had 3 healthy seasons to develop his team (88'), he won 50 games and made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron... In his 4th healthy season (89'), Jordan was vastly outperforming Lebron against the champs.

Ultimately, the first low seed of Lebron's career equaled 1st Round loss (2021), just like Jordan's rookie and sophomore low seeds.. Otoh, prime Jordan's low seed kicked everyone's ass in 89'.


Hey, speaking of having all-stars. How did a team with ZERO all-stars out perform 24 year old MJ in the playoffs?

Really makes one wonder what MJ's career on and off the court would've been like without the help of Mr. Stern. The man who, in his own words, "know[s] where the bodies are buried" (https://www.businessinsider.com/david-stern-really-does-know-where-the-bodies-are-buried-2011-3). Next year, MJ literally told Krause that he needs more help (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8R8aKZQmtJsJ:https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-11-18-9104140692-story.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-b-d)! Imagine if he wasn't tied down by those draconian contracts. Jesus. And when Krause told him to fucc off he wasn't above backstabbing and tattling (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1991/12/14/air-jordan-often-flies-solo-gunning-for-the-top/63603f0f-1f73-4d4d-a8f9-8cf4e2b76f9b/).

Anyway after 3 more years of Nike propaganda, MJ still needed to write a letter to Stern to change the rules for him (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-05-28-9102170643-story.html). That summer('90) he also decided to change his trainer to Tim Grover. Perhaps the best steroid cycling trainer in America in the 90s. Howe21lbs of lean muscle in 6 weeks? Wow! What would Mars Blackman think about that? :applause:

I'll leave the boozing, gambling, and piece of shit human being stories for another time.

[HoopsNY]

Was the league trash when Dirk won in 2011?

Jordan has 6 rings that were bigger carry-jobs

Jason Terry outperformed Pippen on most championship runs, and there's a much bigger gap statistically between MJ/Pippen then Dirk/Terry.. so all 6 of Jordan's rings are bigger carry-jobs than 11' Dirk

Name a player on the 2011 Mavs after Dirk who, at the time, was a top 8 player, and in the following seasons, was a perennial All-Star, All-NBA, DPOY, and MVP vote getter. I'll wait.

[bison]

3ball is steadily becoming my favorite poster

[3ball]

Do you seriously not realize you're comparing one season to an entire decade :oldlol: It's a retarded comparison, and the other posters are right, claiming a 7x All-NBA player was garbage only proves Jordan's era was weak AF


Pippen was just the low-producing bum that came along after the super-team 80's, when expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star teams could win.. Obviously, anyone wins alongside the GOAT in a 2-star vs 2-star format. If only Woolridge could've been so lucky.

[Real Men Wear Green]

* The 04' Cavs had zero all-stars, while the 05' Cavs had 2

THAT'S IMPROVEMENT


* The 06' Cavs added a 22/5/5 all-defender to their all-star duo, along with the future COY

THAT'S IMPROVEMENT


So again, Lebron's first teams had several seasons to develop before entering the playoffs as favored, high seeds in 06' or 20', while Jordan's first teams were forced into the playoffs as 8 seeds in Year 1.

So the phrase "1-9" compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year eight seeds.

But when Jordan had 3 healthy seasons to develop his team (88'), he won 50 games and made the 2nd Round just like 06' Lebron... In his 4th healthy season (89'), Jordan was vastly outperforming Lebron against the champs.

Ultimately, the first low seed of Lebron's career equaled 1st Round loss (2021), just like Jordan's rookie and sophomore low seeds.. Otoh, prime Jordan's low seed kicked everyone's ass in 89'.
1-9

[3ball]

Hey, speaking of having all-stars. How did a team with ZERO all-stars out perform 24 year old MJ in the playoffs?

Really makes one wonder what MJ's career on and off the court would've been like without the help of Mr. Stern. The man who, in his own words, "know[s] where the bodies are buried" (https://www.businessinsider.com/david-stern-really-does-know-where-the-bodies-are-buried-2011-3). Next year, MJ literally told Krause that he needs more help (https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8R8aKZQmtJsJ:https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-11-18-9104140692-story.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-b-d)! Imagine if he wasn't tied down by those draconian contracts. Jesus. And when Krause told him to fucc off he wasn't above backstabbing and tattling (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1991/12/14/air-jordan-often-flies-solo-gunning-for-the-top/63603f0f-1f73-4d4d-a8f9-8cf4e2b76f9b/).

Anyway after 3 more years of Nike propaganda, MJ still needed to write a letter to Stern to change the rules for him (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-05-28-9102170643-story.html). That summer('90) he also decided to change his trainer to Tim Grover. Perhaps the best steroid cycling trainer in America in the 90s. Howe21lbs of lean muscle in 6 weeks? Wow! What would Mars Blackman think about that? :applause:

I'll leave the boozing, gambling, and piece of shit human being stories for another time.


By posting the above facts, you're underestimating the gap in difficulty between today's format and Jordan's era - the cancellation of flagrant fouls didn't change the fact that Jordan's game was stifled by an unspaced, big man format that allowed hand-checking, impeding and much harder fouls.

Otoh, today's game can make literally ANYONE the help Jordan needed, aka "pippen" - Marcus Morris and Jeff Green scored better than Pippen because a few threes is all it takes to have more offensive impact than Pippen..

So today's format is built for Jordan - pippens are everywhere - Jordan benefits the most because he's the only player in history that commands doubles as the ball-handler and post player, so he's creating more "pippens" than anyone.

[HoopsNY]

Name a player on the 2011 Mavs after Dirk who, at the time, was a top 8 player, and in the following seasons, was a perennial All-Star, All-NBA, DPOY, and MVP vote getter. I'll wait.

Waiting

[ClipperRevival]

He draws traffic, even if its 100 1-9 replies. Hell, we got a mod on the first page doing it. And by now, if it's not clear, the owners of this forum dont give a fu-ck about the quality of discussion. Believe me, I've been a mod on other forums years ago. It ain't rocket science to keep it clean.

What's going on here is at the least, tacitly accepted by those who run this place. Theres an MO to occasionally act like this isnt tolerated with bullshit one-day bans to make it seen like theres some level of moderation to the endless trolling. It's all bullshit, and they'll all in on it, 3ball included. Rememer when Kblaze did his little 'clean up the board' exercise last year? And we were told changing the board to a new format undid the bans? I'll stop short of calling that little excuse bullshit, but why werent the bans re-instituted if it was a simple tech issue? I wouldn't be surprised if 3ball is cut a check every month.There's simply no other explanation. So, we can all ignore 3ball, or continue to 1-9 his threads, but we're all doing the same shit by feeding into it, including calls to ban him.

It's because Jeff is wheels or some of the LeBron alts.

[Smoke117]

1-9. No pip, no chip.

[FKAri]

By posting the above facts, you're underestimating the gap in difficulty between today's format and Jordan's era - the cancellation of flagrant fouls didn't change the fact that Jordan's game was stifled by an unspaced, big man format that allowed hand-checking, impeding and much harder fouls.

Otoh, today's game can make literally ANYONE the help Jordan needed, aka "pippen" - Marcus Morris and Jeff Green scored better than Pippen because a few threes is all it takes to have more offensive impact than Pippen..

So today's format is built for Jordan - pippens are everywhere - Jordan benefits the most because he's the only player in history that commands doubles as the ball-handler and post player, so he's creating more "pippens" than anyone.

I'll go off script and agree with you. Today's game(for over a decade) is designed to make people look like Michael Jordan.

MJ flourished in a league that wasn't built for him. It was one dominated by Cs. The occasional F who was big, tall, strong and could shoot over those Cs could also do well. Guys like Baylor, Doctor, Bernard King, etc. The guard was the background singer. Enter MJ. He could do what the forwards could do while also being faster and more skilled. Throw in his other rare assets and he was so far beyond the rest that he elevated the whole sport.

[3ball]

Name a player on the 2011 Mavs after Dirk who, at the time, was a top 8 player, and in the following seasons, was a perennial All-Star, All-NBA, DPOY, and MVP vote getter. I'll wait.


Find me a place where someone in real time says "here's the league MVP candidates" and pippen's name was included in the ensuing list - show me a real-time quote where someone associated Pippen with league MVP.

He simply wasn't thought of that way because he was playing like Shawn Marion, while Hakeem was playing like Embiid.

You're forgetting that guys like Blake Griffin or IT get a top 5 voting for MVP but no one views either as an MVP player.. And Pippen didn't even play as well as those guys.. So you'll never here someone say in the 90's that Pippen was an MVP candidate - it was never a topic - almost as ridiculous as him saying that he infact led over Jordan..

Ultimately, media awards are affected by the winning spotlight and the media auto-votes for repeat winners, similar to Kobe's defensive awards.

As for Dirk, he was fortunate to get an organic ring after 12 years.... Others aren't so lucky, but it demonstrates how Jordan would do - aka Smits/Miller nearly beat the Bulls and nearly went 7 with the 00' Lakers, so Smits/MJ wins every year with that same Pacer cast..

Heck, Stockton/Malone demolished Shaq/Duncan and were basically B2B champs, so Stockton/MJ wins every year.. Stockton is 8th all-time in BPM and has twice as many All-NBA as Pippen..

Pippen was simply a low-producing bum that came along after the super-team 80's, when expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star teams could win.. Anyone wins alongside the goat in a 2-star vs 2-star format.

[ShawkFactory]

Find me a place where someone in real time says "here's the league MVP candidates" and pippen's name was included in the ensuing list - show me a real-time quote where someone associated Pippen with league MVP.

He simply wasn't thought of that way because he was playing like Shawn Marion, while Hakeem was playing like Embiid.

You're forgetting that guys like Blake Griffin or IT get a top 5 voting for MVP but no one views either as an MVP player.. And Pippen didn't even play as well as those guys.. So you'll never here someone say in the 90's that Pippen was an MVP candidate - it was never a topic - almost as ridiculous as him saying that he infact led over Jordan..

Ultimately, media awards are affected by the winning spotlight and the media auto-votes for repeat winners, similar to Kobe's defensive awards.

As for Dirk, he was fortunate to get an organic ring after 12 years.... Others aren't so lucky, but it demonstrates how Jordan would do - aka Smits/Miller nearly beat the Bulls and nearly went 7 with the 00' Lakers, so Smits/MJ wins every year with that same Pacer cast..

Heck, Stockton/Malone demolished Shaq/Duncan and were basically B2B champs, so Stockton/MJ wins every year.. Stockton is 8th all-time in BPM and has twice as many All-NBA as Pippen..

Pippen was simply a low-producing bum that came along after the super-team 80's, when expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star teams could win.. Anyone wins alongside the goat in a 2-star vs 2-star format.

They did not.

[And1AllDay]

1-9. no pip, no chip.

[3ball]

They did not.


Oh that right they gentleman-swept Duncan and Robinson/Popovich (56-win Spurs)

Stockton/Malone were basically B2B champs, so Stockton/MJ wins every year.. Stockton is 8th all-time in BPM and has twice as many All-NBA as Pippen..

Pippen was simply a low-producing bum that came along after the super-team 80's, when expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star teams could win.. Anyone wins alongside the goat in a 2-star vs 2-star format.

[And1AllDay]

Name a player on the 2011 Mavs after Dirk who, at the time, was a top 8 player, and in the following seasons, was a perennial All-Star, All-NBA, DPOY, and MVP vote getter. I'll wait.

uhh tyson chandler won dpoy the next year :oldlol:
jason kidd is a top 10 all time pg and hof player :oldlol:
jason terry won 6 moy only 2 years before :oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

Oh that right they gentleman-swept Duncan and Robinson/Popovich (56-win Spurs)

Stockton/Malone were basically B2B champs, so Stockton/MJ wins every year.. Stockton is 8th all-time in BPM and has twice as many All-NBA as Pippen..

Pippen was simply a low-producing bum that came along after the super-team 80's, when expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star teams could win.. Anyone wins alongside the goat in a 2-star vs 2-star format.

Also not true.

I’ve watched the first two games in that series though and it was tight.

ORTG
Jazz- 101.8
Spurs- 101.5

PPG
Jazz- 85.0
Spurs- 84.8

eFG%
Jazz- .447
Spurs- .454

That was about as evenly matched as a series can be.

[HoopsNY]

uhh tyson chandler won dpoy the next year :oldlol:
jason kidd is a top 10 all time pg and hof player :oldlol:
jason terry won 6 moy only 2 years before :oldlol:

That's nonsense. Chandler may have won DPOY, but he wasn't a consistent vote getter in all of those categories. Kidd and Terry weren't either. Kidd's best days had passed him. And Terry? You serious here?

3ball wants to draw a comparison when the fact is that Pippen was an elite player. None of those guys on the Mavs supporting cast were, period.

[3ball]

1-9. no pip, no chip.


Imagine if Klay was ranked above Harden due to rings - that's unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets

So Pippen is overrated because the on-paper evaluations of new fans only see Pippen's 6 rings versus Giannis or Ewing's zero rings.. Pippen mistakenly gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option, when he's the most obvious 2nd option ever.

[And1AllDay]

Imagine if Klay was ranked above Harden due to rings - that's unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets

So Pippen is overrated because the on-paper evaluations of new fans only see Pippen's 6 rings versus Giannis or Ewing's zero rings.. Pippen mistakenly gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option, when he's the most obvious 2nd option ever.

show me klays all nbas and all defensives

show me klays top 3 mvp voting

lemeeeeeeeeeeeee knowwwwwwwwww 3baLLLLLLLLLLLL

[3ball]

show me klays all nbas and all defensives

show me klays top 3 mvp voting

lemeeeeeeeeeeeee knowwwwwwwwww 3baLLLLLLLLLLLL


Show me 37 in a quarter or 26 ppg in the Finals

But I'd say Klay and Pippen are about the same so we agree

[And1AllDay]

Show me 37 in a quarter or 26 ppg in the Finals

But I'd say Klay and Pippen are about the same so we agree

what are klays mvp win shares? has he ever made a top 10 ever?

[HoopsNY]

what are klays mvp win shares? has he ever made a top 10 ever?

Are you for or against what 3ball is saying? His argument is that Jordan won with a 2011 Mavs like cast. His proof is the guys on that cast being highly regarded at some point in their career. It's bogus.

Pippen was an elite player in most of the years Chicago was in contention. Guys like Kidd, Marion, and Terry were not in 2011 or after. There is no parallel in this discussion.

[3ball]

Are you for or against what 3ball is saying? His argument is that Jordan won with a 2011 Mavs like cast. His proof is the guys on that cast being highly regarded at some point in their career. It's bogus.

Pippen was an elite player in most of the years Chicago was in contention. Guys like Kidd, Marion, and Terry were not in 2011 or after. There is no parallel in this discussion.


Those guys would've been getting accolades if they were winning titles with Jordan...but only Jordan can beat great teams with shit from a sidekick, so only Pippen got titles and accolades with shit stats.

Imagine if Klay was ranked above Harden due to rings - that's unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets

So Pippen is overrated because the on-paper evaluations of new fans only see Pippen's 6 rings versus Giannis or Ewing's zero rings.. Pippen mistakenly gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option, when he's the most obvious 2nd option ever.

[ShawkFactory]

Those guys would've been getting accolades if they were winning titles with Jordan...but only Jordan can beat great teams with shit from a sidekick, so only Pippen got titles and accolades with shit stats.

Imagine if Klay was ranked above Harden due to rings - that's unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets

So Pippen is overrated because the on-paper evaluations of new fans only see Pippen's 6 rings versus Giannis or Ewing's zero rings.. Pippen mistakenly gets credit for rings like he's a 1st option, when he's the most obvious 2nd option ever.

No he doesn't. A first option with 6 rings is going to be WAY higher on people's lists than Pippen.

[Shooter]

Are you for or against what 3ball is saying? His argument is that Jordan won with a 2011 Mavs like cast. His proof is the guys on that cast being highly regarded at some point in their career. It's bogus.

Pippen was an elite player in most of the years Chicago was in contention. Guys like Kidd, Marion, and Terry were not in 2011 or after. There is no parallel in this discussion.

3ball has no argument you dumb alt :lol

[3ball]

No he doesn't. A first option with 6 rings is going to be WAY higher on people's lists than Pippen.


By virtue of his goat performance in the 2016 Finals, Kyrie is a clutch-champion-winner, but he's actually viewed as a cancer loser because rings don't count for 2nd options

Kyrie is a loser for destroying the league MVP and executing the goat closing of a Finals, while Pippen is a winner for wetting the bed with 19 on 42% in 6 Finals

[ShawkFactory]

By virtue of his goat performance in the 2016 Finals, Kyrie is a clutch-champion-winner, but he's actually viewed as a cancer loser because rings don't count for 2nd options

Kyrie is a loser for destroying the league MVP and executing the goat closing of a Finals, while Pippen is a winner for wetting the bed with 19 on 42% in 6 Finals

:facepalm

[3ball]

:facepalm


So you can't answer and are deflecting.. another 3ball win

[ShawkFactory]

So you can't answer and are deflecting.. another 3ball win

:roll:

If Kyrie had 6 rings as the second best player instead of bouncing around and showing that he can't be a leader on or off the court then he'd be viewed differently.

[3ball]

:roll:

If Kyrie had 6 rings as the second best player instead of bouncing around and showing that he can't be a leader on or off the court then he'd be viewed differently.



Pippen played like garbage and was carried to 6 rings - Kyrie was never carried, while Pippen was

All 6 rings have the same scoring distribution that PG or KD had recently with their "carry-jobs"... They actually had far more help than MJ

[ShawkFactory]

Pippen played like garbage and was carried to 6 rings - Kyrie was never carried, while Pippen was

All 6 rings have the same scoring distribution that PG or KD had recently with their "carry-jobs"... They actually had far more help than MJ

This has nothing to do with what I said...another win for Shawk

[3ball]

This has nothing to do with what I said...another win for Shawk


Despite playing far better than Pippen ever did, Kyrie didn't win 6 rings as the 2nd best player because his 1st option was vastly inferior to Jordan and played a brand with low team ceiling

Lol.. the facts are always there to show Jordan is goat and Lebron is nowhere near

[ShawkFactory]

Despite playing far better than Pippen ever did, Kyrie didn't win 6 rings as the 2nd best player because his 1st option was vastly inferior to Jordan and played a brand with low team ceiling

Lol.. the facts are always there to show Jordan is goat and Lebron is nowhere near

Yea I don't actually care about any of this.

I just find it amusing that you seem to enjoy or take pride in the fact that you're "winning" in a game you made up and whose rules you constantly change :lol

It's like playing a game with a 7 year old. My nephew doesn't like to lose and isn't developed enough to even handle it so whenever we're playing a board game or something he'll just make shit up so that it won't happen. All you can do is chuckle and go "okay bud". That's you.

[3ball]

Yea I don't actually care about any of this.

I just find it amusing that you seem to enjoy or take pride in the fact that you're "winning" in a game you made up and whose rules you constantly change :lol

It's like playing a game with a 7 year old. My nephew doesn't like to lose and isn't developed enough to even handle it so whenever we're playing a board game or something he'll just make shit up so that it won't happen. All you can do is chuckle and go "okay bud". That's you.


Wow, a wall of text for the purposes of deflecting... smh lol

What was the thread about again?

Oh right... Pippen lacks break-down ability off-the-dribble and therefore can't be a star today like George or other perimeter stars.

His weak scoring and efficiency would be considered trash help today, so he can't win today or any era, if not for MJ

[ShawkFactory]

Wow, a wall of text for the purposes of deflecting... smh lol

What was the thread about again?

Oh right... Pippen lacks break-down ability off-the-dribble and therefore can't be a star today like George or other perimeter stars.

His weak scoring and efficiency would be considered trash help today, so he can't win today or any era, if not for MJ

:lol ok bud

[3ball]

:lol ok bud


Ok cool.. You refuse to address the thread so why post?

You're obsessed with 3ball, or immature.. either way

[97 bulls]

Wow, a wall of text for the purposes of deflecting... smh lol

What was the thread about again?

Oh right... Pippen lacks break-down ability off-the-dribble and therefore can't be a star today like George or other perimeter stars.

His weak scoring and efficiency would be considered trash help today, so he can't win today or any era, if not for MJ

Pippen was excellent at slashing to the basket. What you're doing is basing your feeble argument off of a small sample size in which Pippen played hurt.

[ShawkFactory]

Ok cool.. You refuse to address the thread so why post?

You're obsessed with 3ball, or immature.. either way

Because your thread, like so many others, is redundant. And stupid.

And your further arguments to back up the initial point get even wilder. I'll address those because it's fun to see you duck and dodge and move the goal posts to justify them.

[MadDog]

Pippen was excellent at slashing to the basket. What you're doing is basing your feeble argument off of a small sample size in which Pippen played hurt.

Hey 97 Scottie. Checkout the George\Pippen thread. Think you'll admire my handiwork. :oldlol:

[Shooter]

Yea I don't actually care about any of this.

I just find it amusing that you seem to enjoy or take pride in the fact that you're "winning" in a game you made up and whose rules you constantly change :lol

It's like playing a game with a 7 year old. My nephew doesn't like to lose and isn't developed enough to even handle it so whenever we're playing a board game or something he'll just make shit up so that it won't happen. All you can do is chuckle and go "okay bud". That's you.

:lol :lol

[3ball]

Pippen was excellent at slashing to the basket.





So is Jeff Green

So was Shawn Marion

Heck, I was a good slasher in my prime - that's what guys who can't play do - they slash

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The problem is:

Kawhi without Paul George: 2 finals MVPS

Kobe without Shaq: 2 finals MVPS

LeBron without Wade: 2 finals MVPS

Shaq without Kobe: 0 finals mvps

Jordan without pippen: 0 finals mvps

So out of all the goats, Jordan and shaq were the only ones to rely on 1 guy, as well as one coach. Very unique circumstances for shaq and jordan career that isn't comparable.

[3ball]

The problem is:

Kawhi without Paul George: 2 finals MVPS

Kobe without Shaq: 2 finals MVPS

LeBron without Wade: 2 finals MVPS

Shaq without Kobe: 0 finals mvps

Jordan without pippen: 0 finals mvps

So out of all the goats, Jordan and shaq were the only ones to rely on 1 guy, as well as one coach. Very unique circumstances for shaq and jordan career that isn't comparable.


Obviously, there's something wrong with your logic of you conclude that Kawhi > Shaq or Jordan

So you're missing something.. keep trying

[97 bulls]

So is Jeff Green

So was Shawn Marion

Heck, I was a good slasher in my prime - that's what guys who can't play do - they slash

I the only true thing you stated is that you cant play. And that's why you're so bad at judging players

[tpols]

The problem is:

Kawhi without Paul George: 2 finals MVPS

Kobe without Shaq: 2 finals MVPS

LeBron without Wade: 2 finals MVPS

Shaq without Kobe: 0 finals mvps

Jordan without pippen: 0 finals mvps

So out of all the goats, Jordan and shaq were the only ones to rely on 1 guy, as well as one coach. Very unique circumstances for shaq and jordan career that isn't comparable.

Shaq played with Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash, and LeBron. MJ played with just... Pippen. And Horace Grant. Shaq doesn't get a cookie for team hopping. If MJ team hopped around with Magic, Clyde, and Stockton he'd have a ton of FMVPs outside one guys help.

[Shooter]

Shaq played with Penny, Kobe, Wade, Nash, and LeBron. MJ played with just... Pippen. And Horace Grant. Shaq doesn't get a cookie for team hopping. If MJ team hopped around with Magic, Clyde, and Stockton he'd have a ton of FMVPs outside one guys help.

T, he had 5 years without Pippen.

How'd he do?

[Indian guy]

Pippen supposedly didn't have much off-the-dribble ability, but was considered one of the best players of the 90's. Yet would be Jeff & Draymond Green today......

OP doesn't even realize he's shitting on the 90's :oldlol:

[3ball]

Pippen supposedly didn't have much off-the-dribble ability, but was considered one of the best players of the 90's. Yet would be Jeff & Draymond Green today......

OP doesn't even realize he's shitting on the 90's :oldlol:


No, I'm just shitting on Pippen, who was a 14 ppg player before the triangle (89'), and after (99').

It's crazy because we're watching Middleton carry Giannis to the Finals - so everyone has these amazing 1b sidekicks like FMVP Tony Parker, Worthy or Dumars, or crazy 1a/1b duos like KD/Curry, Shaq/Kobe, Lebron/Wade, Lebron/Kyrie, Lebron/AD......

So it's pretty rare to win titles with true 2nd options that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP... Those rings have the most quality and Jordan has 6 of them

[tpols]

T, he had 5 years without Pippen.

How'd he do?

He was on a lotto Bulls franchise that was basically the Cleveland Cavaliers of their day and had to face dynasty stacked Celtic and Piston teams with Charles Oakley as his best help. And then garbage wizard teams as a 40 year old.

The whole "he won without ___" doesn't matter when a guy spends his entire prime with only one true star player. We can't give cookies out for team hopping with top talent like its harder to win that way.

[tpols]

No, I'm just shitting on Pippen, who was a 14 ppg player before the triangle (89'), and after (99').

It's crazy because we're watching Middleton carry Giannis to the Finals - so everyone has these amazing 1b sidekicks like FMVP Tony Parker, Worthy or Dumars, or crazy 1a/1b duos like KD/Curry, Shaq/Kobe, Lebron/Wade, Lebron/Kyrie, Lebron/AD......

So it's pretty rare to win titles with true 2nd options that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP... Those rings have the most quality and Jordan has 6 of them

Dirk did it. And so did Kobe.

[Shooter]

He was on a lotto Bulls franchise that was basically the Cleveland Cavaliers of their day and had to face dynasty stacked Celtic and Piston teams with Charles Oakley as his best help. And then garbage wizard teams as a 40 year old.

The whole "he won without ___" doesn't matter when a guy spends his entire prime with only one true star player. We can't give cookies out for team hopping with top talent like its harder to win that way.

But T, he had 5 full years and didnt even win 1 playoff series...I'm not even saying a chip, but not even a playoff series?

[3ball]

But T, he had 5 full years and didnt even win 1 playoff series...I'm not even saying a chip, but not even a playoff series?


How many playoff series did the following players win in their first 2 healthy seasons:

Giannis
KD
Lebron
Curry
Kyrie


Unless a player was drafted to a good team, no one wins a series in their first few years as the top dog.. Bird and Robinson are the exceptions.

So your knock on Jordan means nothing because no one else won in their first few years either.

Furthermore, the guys listed above had several years in the lottery to develop into a high seed before entering the playoffs, while Jordan was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 with an 8 seed... So "1-9" compares 3rd year high seeds to 1st year eight seeds.

[Indian guy]

No, I'm just shitting on Pippen

Right, but the byproduct of shitting on Pippen is shitting on MJ's era itself. You claim Pippen would be a meager role player today, yet was a borderline top 5 player in the 90's. What does that say about the 90's then?


who was a 14 ppg player before the triangle (89')

'89 was his 2nd season, bro :oldlol:. He jumped up to 14 ppg after an 8 ppg rookie season. He was clearly improving even before the triangle.


and after (99').

Cleary past his prime by this point. Had offseason surgery in '98 too. Not the same player anymore.

For the record, I think Pippen was a fine creator off the dribble. He was an elite athlete and possessed a good handle. No, he wasn't LeBron or Doncic, but he was a nightly triple double threat while giving you 20 ppg. Jeff and Draymond couldn't dream of that.

[tpols]

yet was a borderline top 5 player in the 90's


No case over

MJ
Barkley
Hakeem
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Malone
Clyde

And even guys like Stockton, Reggie, Kemp, Payton, etc. were better.

Top 5 is a joke and just as bad as 3ball saying pippen was garbage.

Just opposite sides of the spectrum.

[3ball]

Right, but the byproduct of shitting on Pippen is shitting on MJ's era itself. You claim Pippen would be a meager role player today, yet was a borderline top 5 player in the 90's. What does that say about the 90's then?





In today's game, Pippen would peak at about 17-21 ppg like Jeff Green and Shawn Marion, or like Pippen did in the 90's.

A role player then and now






think Pippen was a fine creator off the dribble. He was an elite athlete and possessed a good handle. No, he wasn't LeBron or Doncic, but he was a nightly triple double threat while giving you 20 ppg. Jeff and Draymond couldn't dream of that.





There isn't a single perimeter star in today's game that doesn't have an elite breakdown dribble with spectacular iso ability.

So Pippen wouldn't be a star today... He'd be a Jeff Green or Shawn Marion.






'89 was his 2nd season, bro :oldlol:. He jumped up to 14 ppg after an 8 ppg rookie season. He was clearly improving even before the triangle.





Exactly - he grew by leaps and bounds next to Jordan and Doug Collins.

Jordan's high-scoring was partially assisted, which elevates teammates.like Pippen, Ingram or Hughes, while Lebron's unassisted, ball-dominance reduces teammates to spot-up shooter.






'89 was his 2nd season, bro :oldlol:. He jumped up to 14 ppg after an 8 ppg rookie season.





05' ZYDRUNAS.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. all-star
88' PIPPEN............ 8/5 and 0.7 blocks.. 12.9 PER.. 0.066 WS/48.. bench-warmer


Pippen was an 8 ppg rookie that MJ carried to the 2nd Round or ECF, while Lebron needed a 2-time all-star center to make the 06' Playoffs, along with a 22/5/5 acquisition and the future COY.

So Lebron always had high seeds and decorated teammates in a conference that 1-star teams were winning, while Jordan carried low seeds and undecorated role players in a conference that required a super-team to win it.

[King Kawhi]

can't tell if this thread is serious or not

[3ball]

can't tell if this thread is serious or not


Idk, show me Pippen breaking down a defender off-the-dribble

His handle is role player level today, and he was always just a "flow" points and transition scorer back then (still a role player handle)

[Phoenix]

Idk, show me Pippen breaking down a defender off-the-dribble

His handle is role player level today, and he was always just a "flow" points and transition scorer back then (still a role player handle)

Have you ever considered that if Pip played in 2021, his game( handles) would resemble a modern player? All of these dumb 'what ifs' always take the player as is, a product of their era, and place them into the modern era without any consideration that if Pip came along in the last 10 years, he's going to be influenced by guys like Tmac, Grant Hill, players of similar size and athletic ability, and likely mimic their games including dribbling style.

Also, look at Mike's handle. He got where he wanted to go, his handles were functional. But the aesthetics of his handle are basic compared to someone like James Harden or Dame. Or PG13 for that matter. IF MJ came along in 2021, HIS game would be influenced by the guards of the last 20 years.

[Iverson3]

No Pip, No Chip

[3ball]

Have you ever considered that if Pip played in 2021, his game( handles) would resemble a modern player? All of these dumb 'what ifs' always take the player as is, a product of their era, and place them into the modern era without any consideration that if Pip came along in the last 10 years, he's going to be influenced by guys like Tmac, Grant Hill, players of similar size and athletic ability, and likely mimic their games including dribbling style.

Also, look at Mike's handle. He got where he wanted to go, his handles were functional. But the aesthetics of his handle are basic compared to someone like James Harden or Dame. Or PG13 for that matter. IF MJ came along in 2021, HIS game would be influenced by the guards of the last 20 years.


Pippen played in 03' and was still a flow points guy.. his whole career

[MadDog]

OP. In relation to 90s, how good was Pippen as a #2?

[Phoenix]

Pippen played in 03' and was still a flow points guy.. his whole career

He was 38 and at the end of his career, so let's not pretend he's going to suddenly develop a more modern looking dribbling style at the tail end of his career. So let's dismiss that dumb non-reply and try again. Scottie is drafted in 2015. This is 2021, he's not a 27 year old player. Do you think the aesthetics of his game are going to be the same as they were in 1991?

[3ball]

He was 38 and at the end of his career, so let's not pretend he's going to suddenly develop a more modern looking dribbling style at the tail end of his career. So let's dismiss that dumb non-reply and try again. Scottie is drafted in 2015. This is 2021, he's not a 27 year old player. Do you think the aesthetics of his game are going to be the same as they were in 1991?


He just wasn't a scorer

He was a dunker

[Phoenix]

He just wasn't a scorer

He was a dunker

I wasn't talking about his scoring :oldlol:. Let's try this again. I was talking about his dribbling. You said he had a role players's handle. I'm saying if he comes up in the modern era his handles will be reflective of that. So let's try again, or did my reply not warrant one of your canned copy and paste auto-replies? Is 3bot malfunctioning over there?

[MadDog]

OP. In relation to 90s, how good was Pippen as a #2?

:confusedshrug:

Maybe "3ball" can answer this too. I'm in the Pippen overrated camp. He wasn't a true #1 imo. But as a #2 he was nice. Relative to the 90s, I believe he also outscored most 2s.

[3ball]

I wasn't talking about his scoring :oldlol:. Let's try this again. I was talking about his dribbling. You said he had a role players's handle. I'm saying if he comes up in the modern era his handles will be reflective of that. So let's try again, or did my reply not warrant one of your canned copy and paste auto-replies? Is 3bot malfunctioning over there?


The 2 go hand in hand

Great iso/break-down ball-handlers have a measure of pure scoring ability from those handles...

And then there's pure scoring just the natural feel around the rim and in mid-range and overall TOUCH... Pippen lacked all of these things, starting with the iso/break-down handle and ending with the stone hands (he had em')

[Phoenix]

The 2 go hand in hand

Great iso/break-down ball-handlers have a measure of pure scoring ability from those handles...

And then there's pure scoring just the natural feel around the rim and in mid-range and overall TOUCH... Pippen lacked all of these things, starting with the iso/break-down handle and ending with the stone hands (he had em')

No they don't in the context of what I'm saying because I'm not talking about dribbling in the service of setting up a score. Your brain can't process any argument that doesn't feature PPG so you're trying to swerve the conversation onto scoring. Try again. It's like if I started talking about rebounding. That's outside your catalog of copy-paste replies based on PPGz so you'd somehow try to segway it back to scoring. Let's try again....again.

I'm talking about dribbling. A player can have a modern handle but not necessarily be a scorer. I'm not talking about iso-handles in the service of scoring. I'm talking handles in general on their own. Just handles. Got it?

[3ball]

No they don't in the context of what I'm saying because I'm not talking about dribbling in the service of setting up a score. Your brain can't process any argument that doesn't feature PPG so you're trying to swerve the conversation onto scoring. Try again. It's like if I started talking about rebounding. That's outside your catalog of copy-paste replies based on PPGz so you'd somehow try to segway it back to scoring. Let's try again....again.

I'm talking about dribbling. A player can have a modern handle but not necessarily be a scorer. I'm not talking about iso-handles in the service of scoring. I'm talking handles in general on their own. Just handles. Got it?


Pippen wasn't a playmaker and averaged less assists than MJ, Wade, Kyrie, Draymond, everyone...

And all of these guys had many series or seasons with 8-10 apg and demonstrated elite PG ability.. Jordan was called the best PG in the league during his point guard stint in year 5 (89').. Pippen isn't anywhere near that.

Pippen averaged 5 apg via passes within the offense, so never anything when it mattered..

His playmaking was limited because he lacked the break-down handle needed to create

[Phoenix]

Pippen wasn't a playmaker and averaged less assists than MJ, Wade, Kyrie, Draymond, everyone...

And all of these guys had many series or seasons with 8-10 apg and demonstrated elite PG ability.. Jordan was called the best PG in the league during his point guard stint in year 5 (89').. Pippen isn't anywhere near that.

Pippen averaged 5 apg via passes within the offense, so never anything when it mattered..

His playmaking was limited because he lacked the break-down handle needed to create

Scottie Pippen in 2021. Dribbling. Not scoring. Not assisting. Not playmaking. Dribbling. Too much for you to comprehend?

[97 bulls]

Have you ever considered that if Pip played in 2021, his game( handles) would resemble a modern player? All of these dumb 'what ifs' always take the player as is, a product of their era, and place them into the modern era without any consideration that if Pip came along in the last 10 years, he's going to be influenced by guys like Tmac, Grant Hill, players of similar size and athletic ability, and likely mimic their games including dribbling style.

Also, look at Mike's handle. He got where he wanted to go, his handles were functional. But the aesthetics of his handle are basic compared to someone like James Harden or Dame. Or PG13 for that matter. IF MJ came along in 2021, HIS game would be influenced by the guards of the last 20 years.

Even with Pippens offensive capability, he wouldve been a 24-25/9/8 player in todays league.

[HoopsNY]

Even with Pippens offensive capability, he wouldve been a 24-25/9/8 player in todays league.

Definitely agree. And on the right time, he's winning a championship. Wing players have a notable role in today's game and Pippen was made for a league like today's.

[3ball]

Scottie Pippen in 2021. Modern dribbling style on no? Not a hard question 3bot.


Pippen has a modern dribbling style. So does Iggy or AD

Doesn't make them good playmakers compared to someone that can average 8-10 apg for a series

I'm going to be honest - when they say lebron is like Pippen - it's a massive insult for a supposed great playmaker (lebron) to be compared to Iggy/Pippen... I don't think people realize how basic Pippen was

[Phoenix]

Pippen has a modern dribbling style. So does Iggy or AD

Doesn't make them good playmakers compared to someone that can average 8-10 apg for a series

I'm going to be honest - when they say lebron is like Pippen - it's a massive insult for a supposed great playmaker (lebron) to be compared to Iggy/Pippen... I don't think people realize how basic Pippen was

You said he had a roleplayers dribbling style as a way to diminish him as you always do. Oh look, you still managed to throw in something unrelated to DRIBBLING in and off itself. You malfunctioning over there, 3bot?

[3ball]

You said he had a roleplayers dribbling style as a way to diminish him as you always do. Oh look, you still managed to throw in something unrelated to DRIBBLING in and off itself. You malfunctioning over there, 3bot?


He does have a role player dribbling style, especially today, when tons of bogs have a better breakdown dribble than Pippen, like Bam

Now the guy with a guard physique that was in the wrong era (he didn't quite hard-wire the guard stuff at a young enough age) was Kemp... He'd be a goat talent in today's game where he'd hard-wire it early... Nonetheless, he still nearly won FMVP from Jordan in 96' while playing out-of-position/era, while erasing Pippen from the planet in that series.

[Phoenix]

He does have a role player dribbling style, especially today, when tons of bogs have a better breakdown dribble than Pippen, like Bam

.

I asked like.....5 posts ago, if Pippen came along in 2021 what do you think his dribbling style would be like. Because first you said he had a role player dribble. A pretty vague description. Now you say he had a modern handle, albeit a 'role player' one. Tell the board what that means. Answer that without talking about PPG or playmaking.

[97 bulls]

Definitely agree. And on the right time, he's winning a championship. Wing players have a notable role in today's game and Pippen was made for a league like today's.

Exactly

[Indian guy]

No case over

MJ
Barkley
Hakeem
Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Malone
Clyde

Not all these players played most of their prime years in the 90's. The last season Clyde was considered better than Pippen was '92. Barkley became injury prone after '93 and was never considered better than Pippen after that. The All NBA selections and MVP finishes back this up.

Leaving MJ, Hakeem, Malone, D-Rob and Shaq as 5 players clearly ahead of Pippen in the 90's. I would give Ewing the 6th spot. Maybe Barkley if we give 90-93 a strong precedence. That's it. Pippen most certainly was borderline Top 5 in the 90's. You can watch a lot of Bulls games on YT during the 92-96 period and hear the commentators refer to him as the game's 2nd best player. Not saying I agree with that, but it's testament to how highly regarded he was in his prime.


And even guys like Stockton, Reggie, Kemp, Payton, etc. were better.

This is just idiotic.

[Indian guy]

Idk, show me Pippen breaking down a defender off-the-dribble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw89U6saQeY

Plenty of drives early in this video.

Pippen was mainly known as a slasher and open court player. To say he couldn't break guys off the dribble when he was blessed with elite athleticism and good handles is just dumb.

[Turbo Slayer]

Debating with 3ball is a waste of time. He dgaf what you post. 3ball is just trolling you all. :oldlol:

[HoopsNY]

Not all these players played most of their prime years in the 90's. The last season Clyde was considered better than Pippen was '92. Barkley became injury prone after '93 and was never considered better than Pippen after that. The All NBA selections and MVP finishes back this up.

Leaving MJ, Hakeem, Malone, D-Rob and Shaq as 5 players clearly ahead of Pippen in the 90's. I would give Ewing the 6th spot. Maybe Barkley if we give 90-93 a strong precedence. That's it. Pippen most certainly was borderline Top 5 in the 90's. You can watch a lot of Bulls games on YT during the 92-96 period and hear the commentators refer to him as the game's 2nd best player. Not saying I agree with that, but it's testament to how highly regarded he was in his prime.



This is just idiotic.

Barkely may have been injured some after 1993, but he was still mostly a better player. He led the Suns to 56 and 59 wins in 1994 and 1995. Look at Barkley's playoff performances those years.

He lost to the eventual champs in both years, taking the Rockets to 7 games. In addition, Barkley was the far better playoff performer between 1994-96.

Barkley 1994-96: 27/13/4/2/1 on 50%
Pippen 1994-96: 19/9/6/2/1 on 41%

As an edge, I'd give Pippen 1996, 1997, and 1998. The other years were all Barkley.