If Paul George wins tonight, he's a legendary all-time great and > Pippen

[3ball]

Pippen cannot do what Paul George is about to do, which proves how incapable and overrated Pippen was

There can be no debate if PG wins tonight - he's simply far better than Pippen ever was

[red1]

dude no one ever said pippen was a first option.


we're just saying he's not a scrub like you try to argue.

[AirBonner]

Kawhi made his Pippen better than MJ could even do in a dream

[Shooter]

Winning one second round series is how you get to "legendary all time great?"

Just wait until we tell OP what LeBron did from 2006-2010 in Cleveland :lol :roll:

We win again

:hammertime:

[3ball]

dude no one ever said pippen was a first option.


we're just saying he's not a scrub like you try to argue.


There's no debate if PG wins tonight - he's simply far better than Pippen ever was

Pippen was literally a role player (Jeff Green) compared a 1st option like George

And actually, regardless of what happens tonight, George has already shown that he's a dimension above Pippen

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Batum is the pippen if you look at VORP. This will go down as kawhi's 5th conference finals as VORP leader, what a guy.

2021 clippers playoff VORP:

Kawhi - 1.4

Batum - .7

George - .6

Maybe if George actually catches up a little bit, kawhi will finally return.

[And1AllDay]

Winning one second round series is how you get to "legendary all time great?"

Just wait until we tell OP what LeBron did from 2006-2010 in Cleveland :lol :roll:

We win again

:hammertime:

3baLLLLLL

wrekt like always :oldlol:

nobody tell'm about 2007 :oldlol:

[dankok8]

I can actually agree that Pippen and George are probably same tier players. George led a few Pacers teams to 50+ wins but ultimately just like with Pippen a team led by George probably can't win a championship. George is better offensively and Pippen is better defensively.

[3ball]

Winning one second round series is how you get to "legendary all time great?"

Just wait until we tell OP what LeBron did from 2006-2010 in Cleveland :lol :roll:

We win again

:hammertime:


I understand that you aren't from Los Angeles.....

But taking the Clippers to the conference finals is unprecedented and legendary - PG will go down in LA lore for eternity... It's a fact, so get ready for it.

Btw, Pippen averaged 21.7 on 40% to choke away the 94' ECSF, while PG is playing like an elite 1st option to beat a far superior opponent (#1 Jazz)...

So PG is far superior to Pippen, and always had been - he already made the 14' ECF, where he held Lebron to 22 ppg

[And1AllDay]

I understand that you aren't from Los Angeles.....

But taking the Clippers to the conference finals is unprecedented and legendary - PG will go down in LA lore for eternity... It's a fact, so get ready for it.

Btw, Pippen averaged 21.7 on 40% to choke away the 94' ECSF, while PG is playing like an elite 1st option to beat a far superior opponent (#1 Jazz)...

So PG is far superior to Pippen, and always had been - he already made the 14' ECF, where he held Lebron to 22 ppg (lebron still won because he had a 1b sidekick Wade getting 20 ppg and hitting all the important buckets)

it was 23/6/6, liar bitch

should we say jordan only has 5 finals now? :oldlol:

[3ball]

it was 23/6/6, liar bitch





Lebron didn't average 23 against George in 2014 - he averaged 22.8, while Wade was 1b with 20/5/5

Lebron can't beat PG heads-up without a super-team behind him - Lebron is a non-competitor that needs super-teams.

[And1AllDay]

Lebron didn't average 23 against George in 2014 - he averaged 22.8, while Wade was 1b with 20/5/5

Lebron can't beat PG heads-up without a super-team behind him - Lebron is a non-competitor that needs super-teams.

so why did your bitch azz say 22 when its 23? this why no takes you seriously and your a joke

[3ball]

so why did your bitch azz say 22 when its 23? this why no takes you seriously and your a joke


22

22.8

It doesn't change the point being made... It's a point you can't refute, so you deflect with meaningless statistical discrepancies... It's completely beta

[HBK_Kliq_2]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1996-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-heat-vs-bulls.html

Utah jazz without Conley is like Miami heat in 1996 if Tim hardaway sat out the entire series. Gobert as a poor mans Alonzo.

I'm sure pippen could of pulled off two wins vs them. He beat Stockton and Malone in 2000 as the VORP leader and that was actually an entire series.

[And1AllDay]

22

22.8

It doesn't change the point being made... It's a point you can't refute, so you deflect with meaningless statistical discrepancies... It's completely beta

so why did your bitch azz say 22 when its 23? this why no takes you seriously and your a joke

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Players in NBA history to average 26 PPG, 9 RPG, and 5 APG during a playoff run (Min 12 Games):

1. Oscar Robertson
2. Larry Bird
3. LeBron James
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Paul George (2021)

Damn kawhi is really maximizing his pippen though. Doing things even Jordan couldn't do hahahaha

Now once kawhi returns in west finals, it's over

[And1AllDay]

Players in NBA history to average 26 PPG, 9 RPG, and 5 APG during a playoff run (Min 12 Games):

1. Oscar Robertson
2. Larry Bird
3. LeBron James
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Paul George (2021)

Damn kawhi is really maximizing his pippen though. Doing things even Jordan couldn't do hahahaha

Now once kawhi returns in west finals, it's over



wheres mike fraudon? :oldlol:

[3ball]

so why did your bitch azz say 22 when its 23? this why no takes you seriously and your a joke


I usually write the first 2 numbers... Like Pippen averaged 17.6 in the 96-98' Playoffs, but I usually say 17 or 17/7/5

Now why did your bitch azz deflecting and not addressing the point being made

[MadDog]

Pippen was a nice sidekick, but he can't score like PG. What he did in Utah a few nights ago, Pippen was simply incapable of.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Paul George does have the hotter wife then Kawhi, i will give him that.

Still going to go down as not even being able to beat rookie mitchell in 2018 to beating prime mitchell in 2021. All because of the leadership of Kawhi.

[ShawkFactory]

SO we're admitting that Pippen is an all-time legendary great, or at least close to it.

[3ball]

Pippen was a nice sidekick, but he can't score like PG. What he did in Utah a few nights ago, Pippen was simply incapable of.


So a sidekick that averages 17/7/5 for the entire 96-98' Playoffs is a "nice sidekick"???

:lebronamazed:

That's literally the woat sidekick

What player in today's game could win a title with their sidekick doing that???... WAITING

Pippen was horrific in the 88-90' Playoffs and 94-03', and 93' - essentially his entire playoff career

The most overrated player ever bar none... No one that produced like him is anywhere near top 30

[MadDog]

The WOAT sidekick? :oldlol: That's cap

[3ball]

The WOAT sidekick? :oldlol: That's cap


Everyone in 3-pointer history that won more than 1 ring had a sidekick get FMVP or 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals.

But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win rings with Pippen...

(edit: Pau Gasol never got FMVP or elite scoring in the Finals either)

Furthermore, in the history of 3-pointer basketball, Pippen is one of the rare sidekicks on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats in their career or FMVP (a true 2nd option) - the list of true 2nd options is Rip Hamilton, Pippen, Gasol, Klay, Jason Terry, and Horry..

So Jordan would have a lot more rings if he had elite 1st option sidekicks or FMVP sidekicks like everyone else enjoyed.. Instead, Jordan was stuck with a true 2nd option and inferior team defenses (the 1st three-peat Bulls had the #7 defense, which was worse than ECF and Finals opponents)

[And1AllDay]

I usually write the first 2 numbers... Like Pippen averaged 17.6 in the 96-98' Playoffs, but I usually say 17 or 17/7/5

Now why did your bitch azz deflecting and not addressing the point being made

weak azz lying hoe :oldlol:

b1tch made

[3ball]

weak azz lying hoe :oldlol:

b1tch made


You can't respond, so you lose... 3ball wins

[MadDog]

Everyone in 3-pointer history that won more than 1 ring had a sidekick get FMVP or 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals.

But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win rings with Pippen...

(edit: Pau Gasol never got FMVP or elite scoring in the Finals either)

Furthermore, in the history of 3-pointer basketball, Pippen is one of the rare sidekicks on champions that never achieved elite 1st option stats in their career or FMVP (a true 2nd option) - the list of true 2nd options is Rip Hamilton, Pippen, Gasol, Klay, Jason Terry, and Horry..

So Jordan would have a lot more rings if he had elite 1st option sidekicks or FMVP sidekicks like everyone else enjoyed.. Instead, Jordan was stuck with a true 2nd option and inferior team defenses (the 1st three-peat Bulls had the #7 defense, which was worse than ECF and Finals opponents)

From 91-93 Pippen averaged numbers like 95 Drexler. Whose regarded as one of the best #2s. Sounds decent to me lol. Look at 91 Pippen. He put up better playoff scoring than most #2s at the time. Off the top, he was better than Cummings, Kenny Smith, Hawkins, old Isiah and old Mchale. Pretty sure he scored more than Terry Porter too. All of those guys were "sidekicks" then, and Pippen was better than them.

[3ball]

From 91-93 Pippen averaged numbers like 95 Drexler.





So Jordan won 3 titles with past prime Drexler, and then 3 more with what.... Jeff Green? (Pippen averaged 17 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs)

Pippen was horrific in the 88-90' Playoffs and 94-03' Playoffs... Basically his entire playoff career..

He's literally the worst playoff performer ever, given his ring count and stature







From 91-93 Pippen averaged numbers like 95 Drexler.






88-90' Playoffs = horrible

94' Playoffs = 21.7 on 40% in ECSF

95' Playoffs = 19.0 on 40% in ECSF

96-98' Playoffs = 17 on 41%

99-03' Playoffs = 11 ppg


He's literally the worst playoff performer ever, given his ring count and stature.






From 91-93 Pippen


.


Pippen nearly caused a massive upset loss in the 1992 ECSF by getting destroyed by X-man - only Jordan wins with that kind of trash help - anyone else loses that series and doesn't repeat.

In the 93' Playoffs, Pippen averaged 15 on 33% in the 1st Round and was destroyed by Dominique/Willis.. So Jordan had to dominate and carry the team.. Then Pippen shot 45% true shooting in the Finals (Iverson efficiency without the scoring), and had huge chokes all series in every game, - this included tons of critical missed shots (zero in 4th quarters) and letting Dumas go off and win Game 5... Overall, he had a 2.0 BPM in the 93' Playoffs (lowest ever for a winning sidekick), with lower PER and WS/48 than 14' Wade, while being lower than 13' Wade across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48).

Even in 1991, he nearly caused loss - he fouled out on a stumbling Vlade at the end of Game 3, which would've lost the game if Jordan didn't force OT and dominate it.. Pippen always did everything he could to lose.

[MadDog]

But Drexler is one of the best #2s, and Pippen equaled his production. 91 Pippen also scored more than MOST playoff sidekicks, if not ALL them. Overrated all time? Yea. From 96-98 was he a bum offensively? Sure. Not the WOAT sidekick though. Not even close buddy.

[Shooter]

You can't respond, so you lose... 3ball wins

:lol

You're firing up 4 alts this morning and still losing easy arguments :lol

[97 bulls]

But Drexler is one of the best #2s, and Pippen equaled his production. 91 Pippen also scored more than MOST playoff sidekicks, if not ALL them. Overrated all time? Yea. From 96-98 was he a bum offensively? Sure. Not the WOAT sidekick though. Not even close buddy.

Again, calling an injured player a bum says alot about you bro. And you already proved youre a Jordan dick rider and thus hate scottie pippen

Save your passive aggressive BS for someone else. You no better than 3ball.

[Shooter]

Again, calling an injured player a bum says alot about you bro. And you already proved youre a Jordan dick rider and thus hate scottie pippen

Save your passive aggressive BS for someone else. You no better than 3ball.

He is 3ball. He's his alt. But yes, agreed otherwise.

[3ball]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif



But Drexler is one of the best #2s, and Pippen equaled his production. 91 Pippen also scored more than MOST playoff sidekicks, if not ALL them. Overrated all time? Yea. From 96-98 was he a bum offensively? Sure. Not the WOAT sidekick though. Not even close buddy.


1992 ECSF

Pippen.... 16 on 40%
X-man..... 19 on 50%


Only Jordan wins with that trash, so only Jordan wins in 1992 - Pippen's horrific play nearly caused a massive upset loss, except MJ saved the day.

Jordan had to save Pippen in Game 7 by famously confronting X-man (above).. Pippen was about to have another migraine and trick off the title like 1990.

Furthermore, both the Suns/Bulls averaged exactly 106.7 ppg in the 93' Finals, so Jordan's 41 was needed (because Pippen was aids with 45% true shooting - Iverson efficiency without the scoring)... So only MJ wins in 93' too...

And obviously, he built those 91' Bulls - only Jordan builds an organic champion by cutting his teeth on the Pistons - anyone else gets blown away and the team gives up on the core - Jordan was competitive enough with the Pistons for the Bulls to stick with it.




But Drexler is one of the best #2s, and Pippen equaled his production. 91 Pippen also scored more than MOST playoff sidekicks, if not ALL them. Overrated all time? Yea. From 96-98 was he a bum offensively? Sure. Not the WOAT sidekick though. Not even close buddy.



88-90' Playoffs = horrible

94' Playoffs = 21.7 on 40% in ECSF

95' Playoffs = 19.0 on 40% in ECSF

96-98' Playoffs = 17 on 41%

99-03' Playoffs = 11 ppg


He's literally the worst playoff performer ever, given his ring count and stature

[MadDog]

Again, calling an injured player a bum says alot about you bro. And you already proved youre a Jordan dick rider and thus hate scottie pippen

Save your passive aggressive BS for someone else. You no better than 3ball.

Crying over that, yet sweep over that dudes posts? :oldlol: You're a hoe straight up. Pippen WAS below average on offense, and good on defense. Just got done saying he was one of the best #2s from 91-93. Can't win with stans. They're too far removed.

[ShawkFactory]

Real question: who is a better basketball player right now

Player A: 27 on 51%
Player B: 16 on 50%

Both are guards.

[3ball]

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-07-2019/4EMYLq.gif





1992 ECSF

Pippen.... 16 on 40%
X-man..... 19 on 50%


Only Jordan wins with that trash, so only Jordan wins in 1992 - Pippen's horrific play nearly caused a massive upset loss, except MJ saved the day.

Jordan had to save Pippen in Game 7 by famously confronting X-man (above).. Pippen was about to have another migraine and trick off the title like 1990.

Furthermore, both the Suns/Bulls averaged exactly 106.7 ppg in the 93' Finals, so Jordan's 41 was needed (because Pippen was aids with 45% true shooting - Iverson efficiency without the scoring)... So only MJ wins in 93' too...

And obviously, he built those 91' Bulls - only Jordan builds an organic champion by cutting his teeth on the Pistons - anyone else gets blown away and the team gives up on the core - Jordan was competitive enough with the Pistons for the Bulls to stick with it.







88-90' Playoffs = horrible

94' Playoffs = 21.7 on 40% in ECSF

95' Playoffs = 19.0 on 40% in ECSF

96-98' Playoffs = 17 on 41%

99-03' Playoffs = 11 ppg


He's literally the worst playoff performer ever, given his ring count and stature



Madog?

[MadDog]

I don't agree that Pippen was WOAT or in "worst performer" category. Made that clear earlier.

[97 bulls]

Crying over that, yet sweep over 3ball's posts? :oldlol: You're a hoe straight up. Pippen WAS below average on offense, and good on defense. Literally just got done saying he was one of the best #2s from 91-93. Can't win stans. They're too far removed.

Hey punk, I only went in here to humor you. You're a troll,. You spent all that time arguing with me about how injuries effect a player play to undermine Scottie Pippen, then apply my argument to Andre Iguodala. You a whole troll.

[Shooter]

Real question: who is a better basketball player right now

Player A: 27 on 51%
Player B: 16 on 50%

Both are guards.

Player A

[MadDog]

Hey punk, I only went in here to humor you. You're a troll,. You spent all that time arguing with me about how injuries effect a player play to undermine Scottie Pippen, then apply my argument to Andre Iguodala. You a whole troll.

You're still thinking about that? Lol. Dwelling like a scorned ex. Not my fault you didn't know the optics. I mentioned Dray and Bogut WAY before I did Iguodala. Just like I said Pippen was one of the BEST 2s in the early 90s. But you ignore that because you argue with emotion. Like a female on her period. If you don't want this work, then don't engage.

[97 bulls]

You're still thinking about that? Lol. Dwelling like a scorned ex. Not my fault you didn't know the optics. I mentioned Dray and Bogut WAY before I did Iguodala. Just like I said Pippen was one of the BEST 2s in the early 90s. But you ignore that because you argue with emotion. Like a female on her period. If you don't want this work, then don't engage.

No dummy. I argue context and results. The same thing your stupid ass did when you applied context to the argument that Lebon James beat the 73 win Warriors. And what you said was that Bogut didnt play, you said Green didn't play (both lies), and then you went against your own principle and said Iggy was playing hurt. Tell us you didnt do that?

[97 bulls]

I'll even throw you an olive branch. Would Pippens offensive numbers be better if he wasnt playing with Back, Elbow, and knee injuries during the 96-98 seasons?

Answer wrong and imma beat you with that olive branch.

[tpols]

No dummy. I argue context and results. The same thing your stupid ass did when you applied context to the argument that Lebon James beat the 73 win Warriors. And what you said was that Bogut didnt play, you said Green didn't play (both lies), and then you went against your own principle and said Iggy was playing hurt. Tell us you didnt do that?

Bogut got hurt in game 5 and Dray did miss a critical home elimination game due to silver wanting that game 7 money / ratings and not a quick wrap up. Iggy also was hurt, JR Smith yanked his arm hard and injured his back he was laboring to run at half gait. What's wrong about any of that?

[MadDog]

No dummy. I argue context and results. The same thing your stupid ass did when you applied context to the argument that Lebon James beat the 73 win Warriors. And what you said was that Bogut didnt play, you said Green didn't play (both lies), and then you went against your own principle and said Iggy was playing hurt. Tell us you didnt do that?

They didn't play genius. I don't need to spell out Dray's suspension, or Bogut missing the final 2 games. If you watched it goes without saying. Problem is you're too focused on the "gotcha" shit, and not the actual debate. How lame are you?

Now you're trying to derail the topic, hoe :oldlol:

[Shooter]

They didn't play genius. I don't need to spell out Dray's suspension, or Bogut missing the final 2 games. If you watched it goes without saying. Problem is you're too focused on the "gotcha" shit, and not the actual debate. How lame are you?

Now you're trying to derail the topic, hoe :oldlol:

10 minute Bogut :lol Fake News 3ball

[97 bulls]

They didn't play genius. I don't need to spell out Dray's suspension, or Bogut missing the final 2 games. If you watched it goes without saying. Problem is you're too focused on the "gotcha" shit, and not the actual debate. You're a damn lame. Doing the same hoe shit here trying to derail the topic. :oldlol:
No, if your sensitive ass actually read what I said, you used CONTEXT when discussing that Warriors team. Something your troll ass cant comprehend with Pippen.

Perhaps you need to rephrase what you said. Those players did play in the NBA Finals. They missed 1 and 2 games. You made it seem like those players didnt play at all.

[MadDog]

I'll even throw you an olive branch. Would Pippens offensive numbers be better if he wasnt playing with Back, Elbow, and knee injuries during the 96-98 seasons?

Answer wrong and imma beat you with that olive branch.

In the playoffs, all players are banged up. If you suit up all is fair though. Before you go swinging that olive branch, change your tampon. You're bleeding :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

In the playoffs, all players are banged up. If you suit up all is fair though. Before you go swinging that olive branch, change your tampon. You're bleeding :oldlol:

Except for Andre Iguodala right? You ain't shit lol. Break your fingers so you cant type anymore. You making yourself look bad.

[MadDog]

No, if your sensitive ass actually read what I said, you used CONTEXT when discussing that Warriors team. Something your troll ass cant comprehend with Pippen.

Perhaps you need to rephrase what you said. Those players did play in the NBA Finals. They missed 1 and 2 games. You made it seem like those players didnt play at all.

I mentioned dudes that didn't play. Somehow you took that as them missing the ENTIRE finals. :oldlol: Don't need to rephrase a damn thing. If you didn't get it the first time, maybe hooked on phonics might help? :confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

I mentioned dudes that didn't play. Somehow you took that as them missing the ENTIRE finals. :oldlol: Don't need to rephrase a damn thing. If you didn't get it the first time, maybe hooked on phonics might help? :confusedshrug:

That's what didnt play means dumbass. I'm trying to help you. They did play in the Finals, they missed a couple of games. SMDH

[MadDog]

Except for Andre Iguodala right? You ain't shit lol. Break your fingers so you cant type anymore. You making yourself look bad.

97 Scottie..... Already told you that was a fair point. Take a trip down memory lane, and read that thread over. Its there in plain english.


That's what didnt play means dumbass. I'm trying to help you. They did play in the Finals, they missed a couple of games. SMDH

What? Lol. At this point, you don't even know what you're arguing. I pity your sorry ass lol

[97 bulls]

97 Scottie..... Already told you that was a fair point. Take a trip down memory lane, and read that thread over. Its there in plain english.
But you come right back in another bash Pippen thread made by your daddy 3ball and bash Pippen. You've already showed your inconsistent argument. And that's just a thread that I just happened to go in. I bet you say stupid inconsistent shit all the time. I even asked you do you think Pippens offensive numbers wouldve been better had he not been injured like Iguodala. Why wont you answer that question?



What? Lol. At this point, you don't even know what you're arguing. I pity your sorry ass lol
What country are you from? Saying a player didnt play means THEY DIDNT PLAY!!!! Again, I even tried to pull you out of your idiocy and you seem to want to stay in there. What you meant is that a missed 1 and 2 games. Why do you keep doubling down on dumb shit?

[MadDog]

But you come right back in another bash Pippen thread made by your daddy 3ball and bash Pippen. You've already showed your inconsistent argument. And that's just a thread that I just happened to go in. I bet you say stupid inconsistent shit all the time. I even asked you do you think Pippens offensive numbers wouldve been better had he not been injured like Iguodala. Why wont you answer that question?

What country are you from? Saying a player didnt play means THEY DIDNT PLAY!!!! Again, I even tried to pull you out of your idiocy and you seem to want to stay in there. What you meant is that a missed 1 and 2 games. Why do you keep doubling down on dumb shit?

Obsessed stalker alert. :oldlol: Again, bringing up Iguodala is a fair point. He played so I can't excuse that. Its got nothing to do with Pippen though, who I'm not going to coddle. You don't like it? Tough luck. Go hide in your safe space where you jerkoff to Pippen posters.

Suiting up and that being fair is a common stance. Being allegedly "injured" in every playoff game. And being excused for it? Sounds like hero worship. You should get that checked out.


What country are you from? Saying a player didnt play means THEY DIDNT PLAY!!!! Again, I even tried to pull you out of your idiocy and you seem to want to stay in there. What you meant is that a missed 1 and 2 games. Why do you keep doubling down on dumb shit?

Right. Green didn't play and neither did Bogut. If you watched that series, your slowass wouldn't need clarification lol.

[3ball]

Pippen was a 14 ppg player without the triangle (89', 99')

It's crazy because we're watching Middleton carry Giannis to the Finals - so everyone has these amazing 1b sidekicks like FMVP Tony Parker, Worthy or Dumars, or elite 1st option duos like KD/Curry, Shaq/Kobe, Lebron/Wade, Lebron/Kyrie, Lebron/AD, Kawhi/PG......

So it's pretty rare to win titles with true 2nd options that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP... Those rings have the most quality and Jordan has 6 of them

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen was a 14 ppg player without the triangle (89', 99')

It's crazy because we're watching Middleton carry Giannis to the Finals - so everyone has these amazing 1b sidekicks like FMVP Tony Parker, Worthy or Dumars, or elite 1st option duos like KD/Curry, Shaq/Kobe, Lebron/Wade, Lebron/Kyrie, Lebron/AD, Kawhi/PG......

So it's pretty rare to win titles with true 2nd options that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP... Those rings have the most quality and Jordan has 6 of them
Pippen > Dumars, Worthy & Parker. And considering his inability to literally stay healthy for a playoff run I'd take him over Kyrie too

[tpols]

Pippen > Dumars, Worthy & Parker. And considering his inability to literally stay healthy for a playoff run I'd take him over Kyrie too

Those piston, laker, and spurs teams were far more stacked though. Can't forget Dantley / Aguirre, Kareem, and Manu.

[3ball]

Pippen > Dumars, Worthy & Parker. And considering his inability to literally stay healthy for a playoff run I'd take him over Kyrie too


Only Jordan beats great teams with 16 on 40% from sidekicks, so only Jordan wins the 92' ECSF and repeats that year.... or the 98' ECF and Finals (three-peat in 98')..

Otoh....

Paul George, Lebron, KD, Bird, Magic, Isiah - you name it - they all needed juggernaut performances from sidekicks to beat great teams

So they can't win with Pippen and are much better off with the elite 1st option sidekicks and FMVP sidekicks they already have.

Ultimately, I understand that you never saw Pippen play at the time, so your on-paper evaluation only sees Pippen's 6 rings and chooses that over the resume of guys who played far better - guys that won FMVP or were elite 1st option juggernauts..

Your flawed ranking isn't unique... Everyone foolishly gives Pippen credit for rings like he's a 1st option - so imagine Klay getting ranked above Harden due to rings - it's preposterous, but that's the treatment Pippen gets... That's why he's currently top 30 based on the on-paper evaluations of new fans, despite many guys passing him since he was barely awarded top 50 in 1996.

[97 bulls]

Obsessed stalker alert. :oldlol: Again, bringing up Iguodala is a fair point.He played so I can't excuse that.Its got nothing to do with Pippen though, who I'm not going to coddle. You don't like it? Tough luck. Go hide in your safe space where you jerkoff to Pippen posters.

Suiting up and that being fair is a common stance. Being allegedly "injured" in every playoff game. And being excused for it? Sounds like hero worship. You should get that checked out.



Right. Green didn't play and neither did Bogut. If you watched that series, your slowass wouldn't need clarification lol.

But you tried clown. That's the point. And if I wouldn't have checked you, you wouldve still continued to use that same dumbass argument that nobody takes injuries into account when having these discussions. You're a liar.

[King Kawhi]

this forum is the best :oldlol:

[MadDog]

But you tried clown. That's the point. And if I wouldn't have checked you, you wouldve still continued to use that same dumbass argument that nobody takes injuries into account when having these discussions. You're a liar.

Poor reading skills on your end. My posts in that thread were centered around Bogut and Dray. Period. Iguodala was mentioned last. And that was to hammer home my point. You cried saying it wasn't fair, but ignored the players I zeroed in on. Weak as hell, but that's fine. Fast forward and here you are still moaning. What do you want? A poem? Keep derailing the thread like a coward, but begging wont make Pippen above scrutiny.

[3ball]

Only Jordan beats great teams with 16 on 40% from sidekicks, so only Jordan wins the 92' ECSF and repeats that year.... or the 98' ECF and Finals (three-peat in 98')..

Otoh....

Paul George, Lebron, KD, Bird, Magic, Isiah - you name it - they all needed juggernaut performances from sidekicks to beat great teams

So they can't win with Pippen and are much better off with the elite 1st option sidekicks and FMVP sidekicks they already have.

Ultimately, I understand that you never saw Pippen play at the time, so your on-paper evaluation only sees Pippen's 6 rings and chooses that over the resume of guys who played far better - guys that won FMVP or were elite 1st option juggernauts..

Your flawed ranking isn't unique... Everyone foolishly gives Pippen credit for rings like he's a 1st option - so imagine Klay getting ranked above Harden due to rings - it's preposterous, but that's the treatment Pippen gets... That's why he's currently top 30 based on the on-paper evaluations of new fans, despite many guys passing him since he was barely awarded top 50 in 1996.


SouBeach:


https://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?width=800&height=800&key=3e750996b20f47be9451da09d3fffa5b&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FVoqUxC DAQYlNK%2Fgiphy.gif

[red1]

terance mann is jordan and PG is pippen



https://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?width=800&height=800&key=3e750996b20f47be9451da09d3fffa5b&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FVoqUxC DAQYlNK%2Fgiphy.gif

[3ball]

terance mann is jordan and PG is pippen





George led for the series and won Game 5 on the road when no one thought they could win

PG is an all-time great and legend

[1987_Lakers]

George led for the series and won Game 5 on the road when no one thought they could win

PG is an all-time great and legend

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?470932-PG13-is-a-lightweight-gets-bumped-off-his-spot-easy-low-impact-guy-Clips-aren-t

3ball?

[Spurs m8]

Soooo... about that ridiculous kahwi GOAT talk those couple of posters were babbling on about....

[3ball]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?470932-PG13-is-a-lightweight-gets-bumped-off-his-spot-easy-low-impact-guy-Clips-aren-t

3ball?


I formally apologized to PG fans in that thread after Game 5

PG is a legend

[ImKobe]

Paul George is officially better than Pippen.

[Smoke117]

This win did nothing for PG. It's all about Mann and Jackson.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Playoff P is better than Pip ever was.

Pip is the better defender but George is really good himself.

George is a much better offensive player. Better creator, way better shooter, more reliable scorer against halfcourt defense.

[97 bulls]

Playoff P is better than Pip ever was.

Pip is the better defender but George is really good himself.

George is a much better offensive player. Better creator, way better shooter, more reliable scorer against halfcourt defense.

Pippen would be a 25ppg scorer in todays league WITH Jordan.

Ben Simmons doesnt even want to shoot and cant shoot and he still manages to score 16ppg on 55% shooting.

Giannis Antekoumpo cant shoot, cant dribble, and yet he manages to score almost 30 a night.

[3ball]

.
Playoff P vs the #1 defense:

29/10/5 and the carry-job in Game 5 when no one thought they could win

Elite 1st option. Elite shooter that fits with everyone

[Smoke117]

Pippen would be a 25ppg scorer in todays league WITH Jordan.

Ben Simmons doesnt even want to shoot and cant shoot and he still manages to score 16ppg on 55% shooting.

Giannis Antekoumpo cant shoot, cant dribble, and yet he manages to score almost 30 a night.

These idiots don't even take context into account. Pippen would score much more in this no defense era.

[Axe]

No pip no chip

[3ball]

These idiots don't even take context into account. Pippen would score much more in this no defense era.


Pippen is a 14 ppg scorer without the triangle, and only shooters or elite iso players have an advantage in today's game - robotic athletes like Pippen are role players like Green or Marion that peak around 17-21 ppg.

[97 bulls]

Pippen is a 14 ppg scorer without the triangle, and only shooters or elite iso players have an advantage in today's game - robotic athletes like Pippen are role players like Green or Marion that peak around 17-21 ppg.

So how is it that Ben Simmons can score 16ppg on 50+ percent shooting when hes a terrible FTs shooter, cant shoot the 3, awe hell he just flat out DOESNT LOOK TO SCORE!!!! Please explain

[3ball]

So how is it that Ben Simmons can score 16ppg on 50+ percent shooting when hes a terrible FTs shooter, cant shoot the 3, awe hell he just flat out DOESNT LOOK TO SCORE!!!! Please explain


League format (spacing) plus Ben Simmons has a much better handle and gets in the lane last I checked

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Pippen would be a 25ppg scorer in todays league WITH Jordan.

Ben Simmons doesnt even want to shoot and cant shoot and he still manages to score 16ppg on 55% shooting.

Giannis Antekoumpo cant shoot, cant dribble, and yet he manages to score almost 30 a night.

Ben is a much better ball handler than Pippen. His scoring is invisible in the playoffs like most of Pip's career.

Pip could only score reliably in transition. Bad shooter. Cant score off the dribble.

He'd be a 21 PPG on 57 TS% guy today. Right in line with Pascal Siakam who has a similar offensive game.

[NBAGOAT]

this is a better run than pippen has had I think. doesnt mean george is above pippen all time however

[97 bulls]

Ben is a much better ball handler than Pippen. His scoring is invisible in the playoffs like most of Pip's career.

Pip could only score reliably in transition. Bad shooter. Cant score off the dribble.

He'd be a 21 PPG on 57 TS% guy today. Right in line with Pascal Siakam who has a similar offensive game.

That’s what he was in the 90s. With far less shots and much stiffer defense. Simmons is a great open court player. He has no offensive game to speak of. Pippen had a solid Jumper, a very good post game, he shot the 3, and he could attack the basketball with the dribble.

But let me guess, Simmons in the 90s would be a 10ppg player. Am I right?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

That’s what he was in the 90s. With far less shots and much stiffer defense. Simmons is a great open court player. He has no offensive game to speak of. Pippen had a solid Jumper, a very good post game, he shot the 3, and he could attack the basketball with the dribble.

But let me guess, Simmons in the 90s would be a 10ppg player. Am I right?

Pip didnt have a solid jumper. That shit was broken. It was decent for 90s standards. Itd be bottom tier with today's shooting.

His post game was decent too nothing special or reliable.

He only shot 3s well in transition like Siakam and he wasn't good finishing over contact or drawing fouls.

[RRR3]

So much for Hambone’s agenda of George being horrible since LeBron beat him a lot.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

So much for Hambone’s agenda of George being horrible since LeBron beat him a lot.

This isnt his first year in the West playoffs babyboi. He's shown up now but we saw how the last 3 years went.

Remember when you used to shit on Ty Lue :oldlol:

[Axe]

This isnt his first year in the West playoffs babyboi. He's shown up now but we saw how the last 3 years went.

Remember when you used to shit on Ty Lue :oldlol:
Lol, as if both the mavs and jazz made the conference finals in the last five years for lue to be praised awfully like this.

[97 bulls]

Pip didnt have a solid jumper. That shit was broken. It was decent for 90s standards. Itd be bottom tier with today's shooting.

His post game was decent too nothing special or reliable.

He only shot 3s well in transition like Siakam and he wasn't good finishing over contact or drawing fouls.

How many ppg would Scottie Pippen average if he played in todays league?

[RRR3]

This isnt his first year in the West playoffs babyboi. He's shown up now but we saw how the last 3 years went.

Remember when you used to shit on Ty Lue :oldlol:
Meltdown. George is gonna be a top 10 SF ever when it’s all said and done. Lue is probably in the high end of NBA coached but he’s still done a lot of dumb stuff. However he does less dumb stuff than most coaches so I’d say he’s in the top 10 rn, but I’m not great at determining it. I just constantly see coaches make headscratching decisions. I do like that Lue doesn’t like drop bigs. Agree with him there. He destroyed Snyder who should have benched Gobert.

[Smoke117]

George is gonna be a top 10 SF ever when it’s all said and done.

:roll: :roll: :facepalm

[RRR3]

:roll: :roll: :facepalm
Assuming he doesn’t fall of soon name 10 better.

[SouBeachTalents]

Assuming he doesn’t fall of soon name 10 better.
I'd say most people's top 10 would prob be

LeBron
Bird
Dr. J
Durant
Kawhi
Baylor
Hondo
Pippen
Barry
Wilkins

Then you'd have Pierce, Worthy, Melo etc.

[RRR3]

I'd say most people's top 10 would prob be

LeBron
Bird
Dr. J
Durant
Kawhi
Baylor
Hondo
Pippen
Barry
Wilkins

Then you'd have Pierce, Worthy, Melo etc.
Shit I forgot a bunch. He’s not entering the top 9 after seeing that list but I’d take him over Wilkins tbh.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

How many ppg would Scottie Pippen average if he played in todays league?

21-23 PPG on 58 TS%

There's no rim protection these days so he might be a bit more efficient than that. He's never shown a decent jumper and is a career 70% FT shooter so he isn't suddenly gonna become a good shooter despite playing in this offensive era.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Assuming he doesn’t fall of soon name 10 better.

Bird
KD
Bran
Kawhi
Erving
Baylor
Barry
Hondo
T-Mac
English
Dantley
Nique

he isnt better than any of them... And SF has some injured greats that don't have the longevity. George ain't touching peak Grant Hill, Bernard King etc.

He's in the Pierce/Pippen/Worthy/Melo range

[RRR3]

Bird
KD
Bran
Kawhi
Erving
Baylor
Barry
Hondo
T-Mac
English
Dantley
Nique

he isnt better than any of them... And SF has some injured greats that don't have the longevity. George ain't touching peak Grant Hill, Bernard King etc.

He's in the Pierce/Pippen/Worthy/Melo range
T-Mac was a SG. Lot of one way players on that list.

[Smoke117]

Vince Carter also better than George.

[RRR3]

Vince Carter also better than George.
Another SG lol

[nayte]

And a one way player compared to George. Alot of crap takes everywhere

[tanibanana]

Paul George and Pippen are virtually same tier of players...

[nayte]

Pip Better defensively but George on offence overall George

[MadDog]

All-time? No. But who the better player is?

PG has a better: handle, jumper, longball and overall is the greater half-court player. Pippen's got him beat on defense, but Pippen never really impacted that end like a big. Even with Pippen's "intangibles" he simply didnt do enough to put him over PG. Whose skill is more conducive to the postseason. Dude will get you a bucket quicker than Pippen ever could.

[ShawkFactory]

I love how in the span of two weeks we go from playoff P choker to all time great.

[97 bulls]

All-time? No. But who the better player is?

PG has a better: handle, jumper, longball and overall is the greater half-court player. Pippen's got him beat on defense, but Pippen never really impacted that end like a big. Even with Pippen's "intangibles" he simply didnt do enough to put him over PG. Whose skill is more conducive to the postseason. Dude will get you a bucket quicker than Pippen ever could.

Put Pippen in todays game and he has better numbers than George.

And Pippen is the greatest wing defender of all time. He doesnt impact a defense like a big? Please tell me who was the anchor of the 95 Bulls defense that was 2nd in the league. With a starting lineup of BJ Armstrong, Ron Harper only playing 19 minutes, Toni Kukoc, and Luc Longley. To go with Pippen.

[97 bulls]

I love how in the span of two weeks we go from playoff P choker to all time great.

Lol. That part. He had one great game. And all of the sudden hes Jesus.

[MadDog]

Put Pippen in todays game and he has better numbers than George.

And Pippen is the greatest wing defender of all time. He doesnt impact a defense like a big? Please tell me who was the anchor of the 95 Bulls defense that was 2nd in the league. With a starting lineup of BJ Armstrong, Ron Harper only playing 19 minutes, Toni Kukoc, and Luc Longley. To go with Pippen.

Maybe, but he still wouldn't have the skills PG does. And would get exposed in the playoffs. I can meet you in the middle with 95, but he wasn't playing defense like that EVERY year. Or in the playoffs. Stop the cap, 97.

[97 bulls]

Maybe, but he still wouldn't have the skills PG does. And would get exposed in the playoffs. I can meet you in the middle with 95, but he wasn't playing defense like that EVERY year. Or in the playoffs. Stop the cap, 97.

Paul George is a career 43% FG shooter in the playoffs bro. Last night he was 10-24. In an era where it's easier for him to score.

[MadDog]

Paul George is a career 43% FG shooter in the playoffs bro. Last night he was 10-24. In an era where it's easier for him to score.

The last 5 playoff runs, George put up 25/8/4 on 58%TS. On that volume, Pippen's scoring would NEVER be that efficient. If Pippen were playing now his numbers would be up, but his defense would be worse. No handchecking and overall more emphasis on offense. Especially shooting.

[97 bulls]

Looking at George's numbers. He actually not a better scorer than Pippen. Hes a career 20ppg scorer and is still in his prime. Pippen was a career 18ppg scorer for his career. George has a lower FG% than Pippen as well. The only thing George does better than Pip is shoot the three.

[Phoenix]

Maybe, but he still wouldn't have the skills PG does. And would get exposed in the playoffs. I can meet you in the middle with 95, but he wasn't playing defense like that EVERY year. Or in the playoffs. Stop the cap, 97.

As I told 3ball the other day, if Pippen came up in todays era he's not going to be the same player we saw in the 90s, so we have no idea what skills he would or wouldnt have. What we do know, at the least, is Scottie athletically is no worse than George and would easily translate in that regard. We really.....REALLY.... need to do better with these 'if player X was in a different era' debates. You're taking a player as is and ignoring how players develop skills within the context of what time period they came up in. PG13 wouldn't likely be THIS player skillwise in the 90s either.

[tpols]

I don't know why people act like Paul George isn't on Pippens level defensively... He's always been known as a very elite defender and he has the same height size and athleticism of Pippen. PG might be an even smoother athlete actually.

And in today's league you need a jumper. Pippen would run into the same problems as Giannis except Giannis is way bigger and more athletic than Pippen. Pippen couldn't just Shaq guys out the way like G can.

[97 bulls]

The last 5 playoff runs, George put up 25/8/4 on 58%TS. On that volume, Pippen's scoring would NEVER be that efficient. If Pippen were playing now his numbers would be up, but his defense would be worse. No handchecking and overall more emphasis on offense. Especially shooting.

Pippens defense would be far better today because his greatest strength was the ability to rome. Pippen being able to roam around the court and not have to worry about being hit with an illegal defense is downright scary.

George REAL FG% is not very good. Even worse than Pippens. I don't go by some made up stats a nerd put together.

[97 bulls]

I don't know why people act like Paul George isn't on Pippens level defensively... He's always been known as a very elite defender and he has the same height size and athleticism of Pippen. PG might be an even smoother athlete actually.

And in today's league you need a jumper. Pippen would run into the same problems as Giannis except Giannis is way bigger and more athletic than Pippen. Pippen couldn't just Shaq guys out the way like G can.

Ben Simmons doesnt have a Jumper and hes a 16ppg scorer on 50+%, Giannis doesnt have a Jumper and hes a drops 30 in todays era. Pippens jumpshot wasnt Curry level obviously. But it was solid.

[97 bulls]

I don't know why people act like Paul George isn't on Pippens level defensively... He's always been known as a very elite defender and he has the same height size and athleticism of Pippen. PG might be an even smoother athlete actually.

And in today's league you need a jumper. Pippen would run into the same problems as Giannis except Giannis is way bigger and more athletic than Pippen. Pippen couldn't just Shaq guys out the way like G can.
Hold up, are you actually saying Paul George is a top 10 defender all time? Cuz that's what Scottie Pippen is considered to be

[Phoenix]

I don't know why people act like Paul George isn't on Pippens level defensively... He's always been known as a very elite defender and he has the same height size and athleticism of Pippen. PG might be an even smoother athlete actually.

And in today's league you need a jumper. Pippen would run into the same problems as Giannis except Giannis is way bigger and more athletic than Pippen. Pippen couldn't just Shaq guys out the way like G can.

Again....how do we know that with todays increased focus on shooting that Pip doesn't focus more on that? Same with MJ. If hes playing in 2021 hes likely putting an increased focus on 3point shooting. Come on guys, it ain't that hard.

[MadDog]

As I told 3ball the other day, if Pippen came up in todays era he's not going to be the same player we saw in the 90s, so we have no idea what skills he would or wouldnt have. What we do know, at the least, is Scottie athletically is no worse than George and would easily translate in that regard. We really.....REALLY.... need to do better with these 'if player X was in a different era' debates. You're taking a player as is and ignoring how players develop skills within the context of what time period they came up in. PG13 wouldn't likely be THIS player skillwise in the 90s either.

That's fair. Eras do matter, but these discussions are all hypothetical and opinion-based. I'm going by what I see. You might have a different view, but I've seen both players and know what Pippen was and wasn't capable of. If he were in today's game, ya, no doubt he'd work on his shot. And likely be better at. Logically though I can't say all that practice makes him on par or BETTER at shooting than PG. Same thing applies with handles. I'm talking about their best attributes. As they're constituted.

[97 bulls]

Again....how do we know that with todays increased focus on shooting that Pip doesn't focus more on that? Same with MJ. If hes playing in 2021 hes likely putting an increased focus on 3point shooting. Come on guys, it ain't that hard.

These guys lack critical thinking skills. And never apply context to a conversation. Unless the context fits their arguments. Like for instance

Adding Demar DeRozan to the 94 Bulls in pace of Pete Myers yields no results because he would ruin the chemistry and is a terrible defender.

But replacing Reggie Miller, another terrible defender and was nothing more than a good scorer, in place of Pippen and the Bulls are much better. But the very same people admit Pippen was the better player.

[Shooter]

I love how in the span of two weeks we go from playoff P choker to all time great.

Only 3ball could do that :lol

[MadDog]

Pippens defense would be far better today because his greatest strength was the ability to rome. Pippen being able to roam around the court and not have to worry about being hit with an illegal defense is downright scary.

George REAL FG% is not very good. Even worse than Pippens. I don't go by some made up stats a nerd put together.

We all know team defense is worse today, so how would he be better? All we hear is how defense is "handcuffed" so there's no way you believe that. TS include threes and freethrows. Might be over your head, but a third grader would pick up on it.

[97 bulls]

I'll accept that. But why is George a career 43% shooter? And hes in his prime. In an era that favors wing players.

[000]

I'll accept that. But why is George a career 43% shooter? And hes in his prime. In an era that favors wing players.

He shoots like 7 threes a game for his career?

[97 bulls]

We all know team defense is worse today, so how would he be better? All we hear is how defense is "handcuffed" so there's no way you believe that. TS include threes and freethrows. Might be over your head, but a third grader would pick up on it.

I can simply look up his FT shooting and 3s.

I explained how Pippen would be better. His ability to cover multiple players would be easier today because he doesnt have to worry about being hit with an illegal defense call.

[97 bulls]

He shoots like 7 threes a game for his career?

So? Maybe he needs to stop shooting so many 3s.

[ShawkFactory]

Lol. That part. He had one great game. And all of the sudden hes Jesus.

I mean he’s been a really good player for almost a decade. I remember back in 2014 he was a consensus top 5 guy.

Then in OKC he went off and was pretty close to that level too.

[tpols]

Hold up, are you actually saying Paul George is a top 10 defender all time? Cuz that's what Scottie Pippen is considered to be

The metrics show Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing dominated the 90s defensively far more than Pippen did. Zo, Mutumbo, Rodman, Shaq and Karl Malone all had better defensive metrics as well from his own era.

And that's not even counting Wilt, Russell, Thurmond, Duncan, Garnett, Dwight, Ben Wallace and many other from other eras.

Pippen is 82nd ranked in career DRTG. To have him top 10 is preposterous. Larry Bird even had a better DRTG.

[000]

So? Maybe he needs to stop shooting so many 3s.
Are you serious? Its 2021 not 1991.

[Phoenix]

That's fair. Eras do matter, but these discussions are all hypothetical and opinion-based. I'm going by what I see. You might have a different view, but I've seen both players and know what Pippen was and wasn't capable of. If he were in today's game, ya, no doubt he'd work on his shot. And likely be better at. Logically though I can't say all that practice makes him on par or BETTER at shooting than PG. Same thing applies with handles. I'm talking about their best attributes. As they're constituted.

We're all going by what we see, but that doesnt mean we cant extrapolate and put a little common sense into it. What's the more logical position to take?

A) Scottie Pippen coming up in 2021 will be a different player in some ways from the player we saw in 1995, as hes likely to be influenced by modern perimeter players aesthetically and develop skills that translate to 2021

Or....

B) Scottie Pippen in 2021 is going to be the exact player, skill for skill, that we saw in 1995, ignoring 25 years of influences from players in that stretch.

Let's use some rational thinking here, I get its ISH so it's in short supply, but you come off as a reasonable poster in general.

[97 bulls]

Are you serious? Its 2021 not 1991.

Ok. Take out the 3s. Who shoots better from inside the 3?

[MadDog]

He shoots like 7 threes a game for his career?

Right. The game has evolved but these dudes havent lol

[ShawkFactory]

The metrics show Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing dominated the 90s defensively far more than Pippen did. Zo, Mutumbo, Rodman, Shaq and Karl Malone all had better defensive metrics as well from his own era.

And that's not even counting Wilt, Russell, Thurmond, Duncan, Garnett, Dwight, Ben Wallace and many other from other eras.

Pippen is 82nd ranked in career DRTG. To have him top 10 is preposterous. Larry Bird even had a better DRTG.

Every single person you just named is a center. If you have to pull out the greatest defensive CENTERS of all time to make a point that Pippen isn’t an all time defender then you might need to reevaluate the argument you’re trying to make.

EDIT: Garnett is the only non center you mentioned. But still a big man.

[000]

Ok. Take out the 3s. Who shoots better from inside the 3?

Pippen does. But i dont get why you would ignore 7 threes a game on close to 39% for his career

[tpols]

Every single person you just named is a center. If you have to pull out the greatest defensive CENTERS of all time to make a point that Pippen isn’t an all time defender then you might need to reevaluate the argument you’re trying to make.

EDIT: Garnett is the only non center you mentioned. But still a big man.

Well yea big men and centers dominate defense more than perimeter players. The question posed was top 10 defenders of all time. Can't just omit the centers lol

Rodman Garnett Malone and Duncan were power forwards.

[Phoenix]

These guys lack critical thinking skills. And never apply context to a conversation.

It's the MO of this board save a few posters.

[97 bulls]

Pippen does. But i dont get why you would ignore 7 threes a game on close to 39% for his career

I'm not. That's definitely a lot of 3s relative to what Pippen took. But theres nothing that shows that George was soooooo much better offensively than Pippen. I'd actually say he worse because of the eras. It's easier to scorer today.

[97 bulls]

The metrics show Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing dominated the 90s defensively far more than Pippen did. Zo, Mutumbo, Rodman, Shaq and Karl Malone all had better defensive metrics as well from his own era.

And that's not even counting Wilt, Russell, Thurmond, Duncan, Garnett, Dwight, Ben Wallace and many other from other eras.

Pippen is 82nd ranked in career DRTG. To have him top 10 is preposterous. Larry Bird even had a better DRTG.

Ok fair enough. Name me your top 10 WING defenders of alltime. I'm curious to see where George lands.

[000]

I'm not. That's definitely a lot of 3s relative to what Pippen took. But theres nothing that shows that George was soooooo much better offensively than Pippen. I'd actually say he worse because of the eras. It's easier to scorer today.
Whats your point? Nobody is going to care about or remember pg13 in 30 years from now

[ShawkFactory]

Well yea big men and centers dominate defense more than perimeter players. The question posed was top 10 defenders of all time. Can't just omit the centers lol

Rodman Garnett Malone and Duncan were power forwards.

You have to consider a pound for pound aspect when it comes to defense between centers and non centers IMO.

Or at least back court and front.

Like was Shaq more impressive defensively than say Tony Allen? Just because he was big? I don’t know

[tpols]

Ok fair enough. Name me your top 10 WING defenders of alltime. I'm curious to see where George lands.

Pippen does outrank him but not by a lot. I'm just saying Paul George was known for his defense over his offense coming up. And he has the same physical measurable as Pippen.

[MadDog]

We're all going by what we see, but that doesnt mean we cant extrapolate and put a little common sense into it. What's the more logical position to take?

A) Scottie Pippen coming up in 2021 will be a different player in some ways from the player we saw in 1995, as hes likely to be influenced by modern perimeter players aesthetically and develop skills that translate to 2021

Or....

B) Scottie Pippen in 2021 is going to be the exact player, skill for skill, that we saw in 1995, ignoring 25 years of influences from players in that stretch.

Let's use some rational thinking here, I get its ISH so it's in short supply, but you come off as a reasonable poster in general.

I'm not debating any of that though. Not sure if you're reading my posts, but I've said Pippen averages better numbers today. Shooing and handles are both skills prioritized now, so yes, naturally Pippen works on them. And he'd get better. Pippen was also more athletically gifted, so even with reps, I still dont think he'd outshoot or dribble better than PG.

For what its worth the comparison is close. Not mad at anyone taking Pippen :confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

Whats your point? Nobody is going to care about or remember pg13 in 30 years from now

Lol

[000]

Lol

Its true though. If youre seriously comparing Pippen to pg13 youve already lost the top-whatever debate...

[1987_Lakers]

I'm not. That's definitely a lot of 3s relative to what Pippen took. But theres nothing that shows that George was soooooo much better offensively than Pippen. I'd actually say he worse because of the eras. It's easier to scorer today.

I'm not saying PG13 is better all-time, but he's without a doubt a better scorer/shooter than Pippen, Pippen is the better facilitator and defender of the two, peak wise both are in the same tier if you ask me.

[97 bulls]

Pippen does outrank him but not by a lot. I'm just saying Paul George was known for his defense over his offense coming up. And he has the same physical measurable as Pippen.

George is a very good defender. Pippen has been called the best wing defender ever. And there no contextual evidence that shows George is even a better scorer than Pippen.

I like Paul George. I do feel hes a great 2 way player. But I think you guys overrate him (like you do alot of players) to belittle Pippen.

[MadDog]

I can simply look up his FT shooting and 3s.

I explained how Pippen would be better. His ability to cover multiple players would be easier today because he doesnt have to worry about being hit with an illegal defense call.

But defense as a whole is worse today. Again if the individual defender can't impact the game like an offensive player does, then Pippen wouldn't be better. If results are your argument, he wouldn't be better in any way meaningful. That's logic.

[97 bulls]

I'm not saying PG13 is better all-time, but he's without a doubt a better scorer/shooter than Pippen, Pippen is the better facilitator and defender of the two, peak wise both are in the same tier if you ask me.

Then why arent his numbers showing it?

[97 bulls]

But defense as a whole is worse today. Again if the individual defender can't impact the game like an offensive player does, then Pippen wouldn't be better. If results are your argument, he wouldn't be better in any way meaningful. That's logic.
For the 3rd time. I'm not talking about man defense. I'm talking about the havoc Pippen would wreak if he didnt ahead to worry about having to stay within a certain distance from your man. Her be Draymond Green on steroids.

I dont think defense is worse. That's not fair. The rules have changed.

[97 bulls]

Its true though. If youre seriously comparing Pippen to pg13 youve already lost the top-whatever debate...

Lol. Tell these guys that. This is just another thread to undermine Scottie Pippen. We get like 2 a day.

[MadDog]

For the 3rd time. I'm not talking about man defense. I'm talking about the havoc Pippen would wreak if he didnt ahead to worry about having to stay within a certain distance from your man. Her be Draymond Green on steroids.

I dont think defense is worse. That's not fair. The rules have changed.

Nobody said you were. I'm talking about defensive impact overall. You already said scoring is easier today. But now defense isn't worse? :confusedshrug: Can you pretend to make sense?

[97 bulls]

Nobody said you were. I'm talking about defensive impact overall. You already said scoring is easier today. But now defense isn't worse? :confusedshrug: Can you pretend to make sense?

I see your point. I dont think the word 'worse' is a the correct term to use. I mean, you're handicapping the defense. That's why I always say dont compare stats across eras.

[Phoenix]

I'm not debating any of that though. Not sure if you're reading my posts, but I've said Pippen averages better numbers today. Shooing and handles are both skills prioritized now, so yes, naturally Pippen works on them. And he'd get better. Pippen was also more athletically gifted, so even with reps, I still dont think he'd outshoot or dribble better than PG.

For what its worth the comparison is close. Not mad at anyone taking Pippen :confusedshrug:

I haven't seen every post, just the last few pages. You thinking he wouldn't get good enough to shoot as well as, or out shoot PG13 is speculatory to the point of, I think you'll agree, not worth debating. It would be like me saying if Bob Cousy came along in 2021 he'd play like White Chocolate. Saying Paul George wouldn't be as good a shooter or dribble if he came up in 1990 is no less reasonable an opinion and equally not worth debating.

[000]

Lol. Tell these guys that. This is just another thread to undermine Scottie Pippen. We get like 2 a day.
No its the other way around. Yall are having a surprisingly tough time proving hes much better than pg13

For example in 2019 pg13 was the 2nd highest in ppg, while pippen was 8th in 1994

[97 bulls]

I haven't seen every post, just the last few pages. You thinking he wouldn't get good enough to shoot as well as, or out shoot PG13 is speculatory to the point of, I think you'll agree, not worth debating. It would be like me saying if Bob Cousy came along in 2021 he'd play like White Chocolate. Saying Paul George wouldn't be as good a shooter or dribble if he came up in 1990 is no less reasonable an opinion and equally not worth debating.

Great points. That's why comparing across eras is unreasonable. Especially if you're not gonna take everything into consideration


I remember Cousey complaining that the way the assist was counted when he played was much different when compared to how Magic played. He said the assists awarded in Magics time was much more liberally counted. I see the same thing today. Many of the assists today would be considered an assist in previous eras.

[97 bulls]

No its the other way around. Yall are having a surprisingly tough time proving hes much better than pg13

For example in 2019 pg13 was the 2nd highest in ppg, while pippen was 8th in 1994

Better player or better scorer?

[000]

Better player or better scorer?
Scoring is pretty important for 1st options:confusedshrug:

[MadDog]

I see your point. I dont think the word 'worse' is a the correct term to use. I mean, you're handicapping the defense. That's why I always say dont compare stats across eras.

If scoring is easier today, then you gotta call it what it is. Either way PG and Pippen are close enough to compare. We both agree PG isn't better than Pippen all-time. That's a crackhead ass take.


I haven't seen every post, just the last few pages. You thinking he wouldn't get good enough to shoot as well as, or out shoot PG13 is speculatory to the point of, I think you'll agree, not worth debating. It would be like me saying if Bob Cousy came along in 2021 he'd play like White Chocolate. Saying Paul George wouldn't be as good a shooter or dribble if he came up in 1990 is no less reasonable an opinion and equally not worth debating.

For sure. All that is reasonable.

[Phoenix]

No its the other way around. Yall are having a surprisingly tough time proving hes much better than pg13

For example in 2019 pg13 was the 2nd highest in ppg, while pippen was 8th in 1994

Pippen in any circumstance wouldn't average 28 a game. He didn't have the gunner mentality for one. He'd probably be a solid 23-24 on good percentages in 2021 if asked to be a secondary scorer. Scottie's athleticism alone would get easy transition buckets and the lane is wide open for him to exploit. If you're any kind of driving/slashing player you'll be on the line like....9 times a night without too much trouble.

Even if we assume he doesn't develop 'modern scoring ISO' handles it's not like we're in a handchecking era where he'd be impeded. The rules are so pussified now so there's no 92 Knicks goon squad knocking him on his ass every trip down the lane. He doesn't have to worry about John Starks doing his best Bradshaw /JBL impersonation on the way to getting mauled at the rim by some combo of Ewing, Mason, Oakley, Charles Smith and whatever other bigs NY was fielding during that run. If he was playing on the 2021 Clips I can see him doing 23/8/7 as Kawhi's 2nd option or something like that, especially on teams that can drop 120 a night. We're back to the cartoon era of 60's stats so all of this stuff has be contextualized ( foreign to ISH).

But really, the stupidity of even comparing scoring numbers from this era and 25 years ago....wait, you're the same dumbass who said 'two teams win the same amount of games so they're equally as good'. Like this is an act, yeah? Or are you really this retarded?

[000]

Pippen in any circumstance wouldn't average 28 a game. He didn't have the gunner mentality for one. He'd probably be a solid 23-24 on good percentages in 2021 if asked to be a secondary scorer. Scottie's athleticism alone would get easy transition buckets and the lane is wide open for him to exploit. If you're any kind of driving/slashing player you'll be on the line like....9 times a night without too much trouble.

Even if we assume he doesn't develop 'modern scoring ISO' handles it's not like we're in a handchecking era where he'd be impeded. The rules are so pussified now so there's no 92 Knicks goon squad knocking him on his ass every trip down the lane. He doesn't have to worry about John Starks doing his best Bradshaw /JBL impersonation on the way to getting mauled at the rim by some combo of Ewing, Mason, Oakley, Charles Smith and whatever other bigs NY was fielding during that run. If he was playing on the 2021 Clips I can see him doing 23/8/7 as Kawhi's 2nd option or something like that, especially on teams that can drop 120 a night. We're back to the cartoon era of 60's stats so all of this stuff has be contextualized ( foreign to ISH).

But really, the stupidity of even comparing scoring numbers from this era and 25 years ago....wait, you're the same dumbass who said 'two teams win the same amount of games so they're equally as good'. Like this is an act, yeah? Or are you really this retarded?
I didnt compare ppg, I compared how good they were compared to the rest of the league

Yes, pippen would average more ppg today

Edit: why are you talking about secondary scoring when I mentioned 1994 pippen? Was he kukocs sidekick or were you just rage-typing?

[Phoenix]

Great points. That's why comparing across eras is unreasonable. Especially if you're not gonna take everything into consideration


I remember Cousey complaining that the way the assist was counted when he played was much different when compared to how Magic played. He said the assists awarded in Magics time was much more liberally counted. I see the same thing today. Many of the assists today would be considered an assist in previous eras.

Damn near impossible. It's all speculation, conjecture and extrapolation, but I never take an argument comparing players separated by, literally, a quarter of a century with any real seriousness. How would Wilt Chamberlain play in 2021? About as useful an argument as trying to piss straight in a hurricane.

[97 bulls]

Damn near impossible. It's all speculation, conjecture and extrapolation, but I never take an argument comparing players separated by, literally, a quarter of a century with any real seriousness. How would Wilt Chamberlain play in 2021? About as useful an argument as trying to piss straight in a hurricane.

Lol.

[Hey Yo]

Pippen in any circumstance wouldn't average 28 a game. He didn't have the gunner mentality for one. He'd probably be a solid 23-24 on good percentages in 2021 if asked to be a secondary scorer. Scottie's athleticism alone would get easy transition buckets and the lane is wide open for him to exploit. If you're any kind of driving/slashing player you'll be on the line like....9 times a night without too much trouble.

Even if we assume he doesn't develop 'modern scoring ISO' handles it's not like we're in a handchecking era where he'd be impeded. The rules are so pussified now so there's no 92 Knicks goon squad knocking him on his ass every trip down the lane. He doesn't have to worry about John Starks doing his best Bradshaw /JBL impersonation on the way to getting mauled at the rim by some combo of Ewing, Mason, Oakley, Charles Smith and whatever other bigs NY was fielding during that run. If he was playing on the 2021 Clips I can see him doing 23/8/7 as Kawhi's 2nd option or something like that, especially on teams that can drop 120 a night. We're back to the cartoon era of 60's stats so all of this stuff has be contextualized ( foreign to ISH).

But really, the stupidity of even comparing scoring numbers from this era and 25 years ago....wait, you're the same dumbass who said 'two teams win the same amount of games so they're equally as good'. Like this is an act, yeah? Or are you really this retarded?

Can you provide clips of the numerous times that the NYK/Goons knocked MJ on his ass when driving to the basket?

I agree it happened at times, but you're definitely exaggerating about how frequent it occurred.

[000]

Can you provide clips of the numerous times that the NYK/Goons knocked MJ on his ass when driving to the basket?

I agree it happened at times, but you're definitely exaggerating about how frequent it occurred.
Lol these arguments are always so dumb. As if there were just the pistons, knicks and bulls in the entire league

[Phoenix]

I didnt compare ppg, I compared how good they were compared to the rest of the league

Yes, pippen would average more ppg today

Scottie may have been 8th in scoring in 94 but guess what, for those shitting on his scoring numbers or placement relative to the rest of the league he was the third highest perimeter scorer that year. The two above him? Dominique and Mitch Richmond. The rest of the top 10? David Robinson, Shaq, Hakeem, Malone, Ewing, Barkley and Glen Rice. Not exactly littered with perimeter players is it? Now let's look at the top 10 scorers in 2021:

Curry
Beal
Lillard
Embid
Giannis
Luka
Lavine
Zion
Kyrie
Jokic

So, 6 of the top 10 are inarguably perimeter players/wings/guards. Giannis is technically a big I suppose but whose game consists basically of starting out from the 3oint line and out-athletically everyone to the rim. Jokic can stroke from outside. Zion is a modern Barkley type but doesn't have the same low post repertoire yet. Leaving Embid as pretty much the only top scoring big who has anything close to the classic back to the basket reportoire of prior great centers as a major part of his arsenal. It's a perimeter player's league, making the comparison between 95 and 2020 even more ridiculous. Not only because of the pace of the current era, but the rules stylistically favor wings. So why wouldn't Scottie capitalize on this like every one else?

[000]

Scottie may have been 8th in scoring in 94 but guess what, for those shitting on his scoring numbers or placement relative to the rest of the league he was the third highest perimeter scorer that year. The two above him? Dominique and Mitch Richmond. The rest of the top 10? David Robinson, Shaq, Hakeem, Malone, Ewing, Barkley and Glen Rice. Not exactly littered with perimeter players is it? Now let's look at the top 10 scorers in 2021:

Curry
Beal
Lillard
Embid
Giannis
Luka
Lavine
Zion
Kyrie
Jokic

So, 6 of the top 10 are inarguably perimeter players/wings/guards. Giannis is technically a big I suppose but whose game consists basically of starting out from the free throw line and out-athletically everyone to the rim. Jokic can stroke from outside. Zion is a modern Barkley type but doesn't have the same low post repertoire yet. Leaving Embid as pretty much the only top scoring big who has anything close to the classic back to the basket reportoire of prior great centers as a major part of his arsenal. It's a perimeter player's league, making the comparison between 95 and 2020 even more ridiculous. Not only because of the pace of the current era, but the rules stylistically favor wings. So why wouldn't Scottie capitalize on this like every one else?
The top scorers today are all wings because its easier for wings to score today... thats why pippen would average like 26 instead of 22, which would put him at top 10-ish

[Phoenix]

Can you provide clips of the numerous times that the NYK/Goons knocked MJ on his ass when driving to the basket?

I agree it happened at times, but you're definitely exaggerating about how frequent it occurred.

I mean, does watching the series and going off memory count? Or are you asking me to specifically go online and see how many clips I can find of this very specific thing? Because you know I can't, so that's your way to say well it didn't happen. Hence you asking the question I reckon. Those 90s' battles between the Bulls and Knicks were ugly. Same with the Knicks and Pacers, Knicks-Heat, and what have you. Granted, I didn't argue about the frequency, but it was physical enough to note. Those games are all on youtube as well. Go watch them at your leisure.

What is your point, ultimately? That there's no much difference in the game today from 30 years ago regarding physicality?

[Phoenix]

The top scorers today are all wings because its easier for wings to score today...

Well....yes. That was what I was saying but thank you for agreeing.

[000]

Well....yes. That was what I was saying but thank you for agreeing.
Okay, but 26 or 27 ppg isnt much today. Thats what kyrie or zach lavine is averaging

[Phoenix]

Okay, but 27 ppg isnt much today. Thats what kyrie or zach lavine is averaging

I don't recall debating otherwise. We agree that scoring for perimeter players is easier today, correct? That is all, really.

[000]

I don't recall debating otherwise. We agree that scoring for perimeter players is easier today, correct? That is all, really.
...

Paul george can definitely score 26-27+ ppg - he scored 28 back in 2019 when that was 2nd in the league. This is a pg13 vs pippen debate in case you didnt notice

[Phoenix]

...

Paul george can definitely score 26-27+ ppg - he scored 28 back in 2019 when that was 2nd in the league. This is a pg13 vs pippen debate in case you didnt notice

And my point above doesn't ignore this. You have a knack for making really oddball talking points.

[000]

And my point above doesn't ignore this. You have a knack for making really oddball talking points.
You guys realise that if pippen isnt obviously way way way way better than pg13, then hes not that great on the all-time scale, right? Like even if hes not a roleplayer like 3ball says hes still not top 30, if pg13 is his comparison. Otherwise you must be saying pg13 is top 30 too

This thread is anti-pippen and comparing him equally to pg13 still satisfies op in a sense

[Hey Yo]

I mean, does watching the series and going off memory count? Or are you asking me to specifically go online and see how many clips I can find of this very specific thing? Because you know I can't, so that's your way to say well it didn't happen. Hence you asking the question I reckon. Those 90s' battles between the Bulls and Knicks were ugly. Same with the Knicks and Pacers, Knicks-Heat, and what have you. Granted, I didn't argue about the frequency, but it was physical enough to note. Those games are all on youtube as well. Go watch them at your leisure.

What is your point, ultimately? That there's no much difference in the game today from 30 years ago regarding physicality?

The point is, it's always over exaggerated how MJ took a beating everytime he drove the lane. Stern changed the rule before 92' to deter guys from over mauling/hard flagrant contact which made it easier for a player to get T'd up and possibly ejected for their careless actions

Like I said, yes it happened at times, but not nearly the amount you're claiming.

[Phoenix]

Also, you guys aren't nearly as clever as you pretend. Paul George has like....one year of averaging 28 a night. LOL at acting like this dude is dropping 28 for a decade or some shit. Yes, he has a better scoring arsenal than Scottie, just comparing them in a vacuum for what they were. But PG13 typically scores 21-23 ppg. His 8 season average from 2014 to 2021 when he first starting dropping over 20 is 23ppg. That number is boosted by the 2019 28ppg year or he's otherwise a 22ppg guy.

For comparison, Scottie from 91 to 98 averaged exactly 20ppg in a league that was relatively offensively repressed by today's standards, and playing next to Michael Jordan for 6 of those 8 years ( 94 obviously being the year he was without MJ and I'm not including 95 when MJ returned at seasons end). Why are we acting like 20ppg and 22-23ppg are two entirely different classes of scoring output, especially when you add the context of the eras they play in. And how much you think PG13 is scoring playing next to MJ dropping 30+ every year.

[Phoenix]

The point is, it's always over exaggerated how MJ took a beating everytime he drove the lane. Stern changed the rule before 92' to deter guys from over mauling/hard flagrant contact which made it easier for a player to get T'd up and possibly ejected for their careless actions

Like I said, yes it happened at times, but not nearly the amount you're claiming.

Well first I never claimed anything about the amount. Again you're making arguing points about something not said or inferred. If I intended to say it happened every play, every other play, every 10th play, or every 20th play....I would have said that. Second, in a thread where we are talking about Paul George and Scottie....and my post talking about Scottie vs the Knicks, asides from MJ being in those series as Pips teammates perhaps you'll explain why you mentioned him.

[Phoenix]

You guys realise that if pippen isnt obviously way way way way better than pg13, then hes not that great on the all-time scale, right? Like even if hes not a roleplayer like 3ball says hes still not top 30, if pg13 is his comparison. Otherwise you must be saying pg13 is top 30 too

This thread is anti-pippen and comparing him equally to pg13 still satisfies op in a sense

Rankings take a lot of things into consideration. 2003 Tmac is one of the top 30 players I've ever seen if I was to do a 'who is best on the court' exercise but obviously as his career panned out he wouldn't sniff a career rank that high. I don't really do rankings anyway, not seriously, way too subjective.

[000]

Also, you guys aren't nearly as clever as you pretend. Paul George has like....one year of averaging 28 a night. LOL at acting like this dude is dropping 28 for a decade or some shit. Yes, he has a better scoring arsenal than Scottie, just comparing them in a vacuum for what they were. But PG13 typically scores 21-23 ppg. His 8 season average from 2014 to 2021 when he first starting dropping over 20 is 23ppg. That number is boosted by the 2019 28ppg year or he's otherwise a 22ppg guy.

For comparison, Scottie from 91 to 98 averaged exactly 20ppg in a league that was relatively offensively repressed by today's standards, and playing next to Michael Jordan for 6 of those 8 years ( 94 obviously being the year he was without MJ and I'm not including 95 when MJ returned at seasons end). Why are we acting like 20ppg and 22-23ppg are two entirely different classes of scoring output, especially when you add the context of the eras they play in. And how much you think PG13 is scoring playing next to MJ dropping 30+ every year.
Pg13 has always been a top 10-15 scorer on his own

And no the two arent that different. Which aint good

[000]

Rankings take a lot of things into consideration. 2003 Tmac is one of the top 30 players I've ever seen if I was to do a 'who is best on the court' exercise but obviously as his career panned out he wouldn't sniff a career rank that high. I don't really do rankings anyway, not seriously, way too subjective.
Do you have any examples who didnt play on shitty teams and get owned by injury after that

[Phoenix]

Pg13 has always been a top 10-15 scorer on his own

And no the two arent that different. Which aint good

He was dropping 23 as the top scorer on the Pacers. That wouldn't be special in 1995 and even less so now. Are we at the 'last word' stage of the discussion? Because all relevant points have more or less been made and nothing of value is being added. Unless you're just doing this for post count. Trying to break 100 today?

[000]

He was dropping 23 as the top scorer on the Pacers. That wouldn't be special in 1995 and even less so now. Are we at the 'last word' stage of the discussion? Because all relevant points have more or less been made and nothing of value is being added. Unless you're just doing this for post count. Trying to break 100 today?
Pippens scoring wasnt special either. Thats the whole point dude.

[Phoenix]

Pippens scoring wasnt special either. Thats the whole point dude.

But neither was George asides from the 2019 season. That's the whole point dude.

[Hey Yo]

Well first I never claimed anything about the amount. Again you're making arguing points about something not said or inferred. If I intended to say it happened every play, every other play, every 10th play, or every 20th play....I would have said that. Second, in a thread where we are talking about Paul George and Scottie....and my post talking about Scottie vs the Knicks, asides from MJ being in those series as Pips teammates perhaps you'll explain why you mentioned him.

My first post I quoted you.... you specifically said the 92' Knicks goon squad knocked him down "every time he drove the lane"

[Phoenix]

Do you have any examples who didnt play on shitty teams and get owned by injury after that

I do, but I'm getting to the point where I've wasted enough of my time entertaining your replies. You do the 60 post a day thing, not me mate.

[000]

But neither was George asides from the 2019 season. That's the whole point dude.
:confusedshrug:
Thats still (slight) advantage george. If pippen is near george, then that helps the op as you hopefully understand

[Phoenix]

My first post I quoted you.... you specifically said the 92' Knicks knocked him down "every time he drove the lane"

Ah I see. And since this is ISH, 'every time down the lane' LITERALLY means every time down the lane unless you break it down to 5 year old comprehension that the comment was intended to mean generally it was a more physical era. But point taken. Next time I'll say 'players got knocked down roughly ten times a game going to the lane'. For the literal folk among us. We square?

[Phoenix]

:confusedshrug:
Thats still (slight) advantage george. If pippen is near george, then that helps the op as you hopefully understand

I wasn't arguing 'slight' advantage Pippen. Bruh, just STFU and go outside. You're literally on auto-reply at this point.

[000]

I wasn't arguing 'slight' advantage Pippen. Bruh, just STFU and go outside. You're literally on auto-reply at this point.
Lmao dude, you literally arent reading what Im typing or trying to acknowledge it

[Hey Yo]

Ah I see. And since this is ISH, 'every time down the lane' LITERALLY means every time down the lane unless you break it down to 5 year old comprehension that the comment was intended to mean generally it was a more physical era. But point taken. Next time I'll say 'players got knocked down roughly ten times a game going to the lane'. For the literal folk among us. We square?

Yeah.... you got called our for your extreme exaggeration and then blame me for my reading comprehension.

"when I said everytime, I didnt literally mean every time

We're square :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

Yeah.... you got called our for your extreme exaggeration and then blame me for my reading comprehension.

"when I said everytime, I didnt literally mean every time

We're square :oldlol:

You haven't called out anything. if you think 'every time down the lane' means EVERY TIME DOWN THE LANE, you're the literal dumbass. Now go talk about MJ quitting the league or something, you're due for your 10 times a day reference to it.

:oldlol:.....:rolleyes:

[Hey Yo]

If you say what you don't mean, then dont say it , ya stupidfuk.

[Phoenix]

Or stop taking shit so literal you stupid cu*nt.

[97 bulls]

You haven't called out anything. if you think 'every time down the lane' means EVERY TIME DOWN THE LANE, you're the literal dumbass. Now go talk about MJ quitting the league or something, you're due for your 10 times a day reference to it.

:oldlol:.....:rolleyes:

Heres a 30 minute video of how Pippen was done in his time. I personally feel he got it far worse than Jordan did.

https://youtu.be/Lf0QWssmKQM

[red1]

Heres a 30 minute video of how Pippen was done in his time. I personally feel he got it far worse than Jordan did.

https://youtu.be/Lf0QWssmKQM

I've seen you and roundball rock shit in 3ball's mouth so many times that I lost count


3ball compares pippen to mo williams and delonte west - I'd like to see jordan elevate either of the two to championship second options like 3ball claims he would. :roll:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Hold up, are you actually saying Paul George is a top 10 defender all time? Cuz that's what Scottie Pippen is considered to be

No hes not not even close. Hes maybe top 20 at best.

Hakeem
KG
Duncan
Russell
Big Big
Wilt
Mutombo
Thurmond
Ewing
Rodman
Dwight

etc etc.. Pip isn't even the clear best perimeter defender or best perimeter defender on his own team

[97 bulls]

No hes not not even close. Hes maybe top 20 at best.

Hakeem
KG
Duncan
Russell
Big Big
Wilt
Mutombo
Thurmond
Ewing
Rodman
Dwight

etc etc.. Pip isn't even the clear best perimeter defender or best perimeter defender on his own team

Pippen is better than MJ defensively in my opinion.

[3ball]

Pippen is better than MJ defensively in my opinion.



DPOY VOTING

1988.... MJ (1st).... Pip (none)
1989.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1990.... MJ (5th).... Pip (none)
1991.... MJ (7th).... Pip (7th)
1992.... MJ (3rd).... Pip (3rd)
1993.... MJ (2nd)... Pip (none)
1996.... MJ (5th).... Pip (2nd)
1997.... MJ (5th).... Pip (4th)
1998.... MJ (4th).... Pip (9th)


Here's the exchange between Marv Albert and Mike Fratello at the time MJ gets his 2nd foul in Game 2 of the 91' Finals:



ALBERT: Do you stay with Jordan on Johnson?

FRATELLO: There's no question that he's the best guy to play Magic Johnson, but maybe you pick and choose when you put him on Magic..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o8l6oM6Jeg&t=12m23s


^^^ this sentiment was echoed by the NBA in the Bulls' Championship Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeAUz2dZ_NQ&t=35m03s


All the evidence shows that Jordan was the superior defender.. Lebron fans have simply tried to change history and diminish the GOAT because they have low character.

Ultimately, Lebron fans concede that Pippen wasn't that good offensively, "b-b-but defense!!!!!".... Unfortunately, good defenders that aren't good at scoring are called role players.

[And1AllDay]

Pippen is better than MJ defensively in my opinion.

of course he is. outplayed mike on defense for every playoffs

https://i.postimg.cc/gj4c8W0r/pip_elite_defense_xzz.png

[3ball]

of course he is. outplayed mike on defense for every playoffs

https://i.postimg.cc/gj4c8W0r/pip_elite_defense_xzz.png


DRTG doesn't measure individual defense, otherwise Bird and Stockton destroy Pippen and MJ

no one thought Pippen was as good as Jordan defensively, as the previous video, quotes, and DPOY voting shows - you're just trying to change history

[3ball]

.

Pippen couldn't handle quick wings with good handle like Hill or Kobe:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/NZrhCv.gif



Here's Kobe shaking his head after breaking Pippen BADLY in 99' - Pippen is joke to him:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/DtKoPr.gif..



But just a few months earlier, Jordan had no problem stuffing Kobe's crossover in 98' ASG:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/EStPHq.gif



Here's another one - Pippen can't handle Grant off-the-dribble - he can't stay in front:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-09-2015/5FXjSn.gif



But MJ can - he stays in front of Grant every step of the way and forces wild shot:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-10-2015/n1LWjI.gif


The reason MJ was so much better defending quick ballhandlers like Hill, Kobe or Westbrook is because he was a 2-guard, and was the frequently the primary, all-game defender on quick point guards.

For example, MJ was matched up against Gary Payton from the TIP-OFF in Game 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meL62CUehuw&t=0m48s) and Game 5 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFiqeJcgXfg) of the NBA Finals and was the main defender throughout the game..

MJ was also the main defender and matched up from the tip-off against Isiah Thomas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9MfhFFE7fc&t=0m28s) and Rod Strickland (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3JqY3CECW8).. And we all know he was matched up from tip-off against Magic, when he guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%) in the 1991 Finals.

MJ's far greater experience playing quick ballhandling guards and his superior athleticism made him a better perimeter defender than Pippen

[And1AllDay]

DRTG doesn't measure individual defense, otherwise Bird and Stockton destroy Pippen and MJ

no one thought Pippen was as good as Jordan defensively, as the previous video, quotes, and DPOY voting shows - you're just trying to change history

when stockton made the 97 finals he was a def rtg of 108 how is that good? :oldlol: dummy kid make better responses

pip destroyed mike on defense every year.

[3ball]

As a sidenote - Lebron fans claim that Pippen's defense makes up for his weak scoring... Unfortunately, good defenders that aren't good at scoring are called role players.. So Lebron fans concede that MJ won 6 chips with a defensive role player.

[And1AllDay]

As a sidenote - Lebron fans claim that Pippen's defense makes up for his weak scoring... Unfortunately, good defenders that aren't good at scoring are called role players.. So Lebron fans concede that MJ won 6 chips with a defensive role player.

https://i.postimg.cc/0QdsFNXK/pip-is-def-anchor-for-bulls.png

[3ball]

when stockton made the 97 finals he was a def rtg of 108 how is that good? :oldlol: dummy kid make better responses

pip destroyed mike on defense every year.


Bird has better DRTG than Pippen and is therefore a superior defender

[Axe]

Bird has better DRTG than Pippen and is therefore a superior defender
That's probably true but against the likes of mo williams and boobie gibson? You're such a fool.

[And1AllDay]

Bird has better DRTG than Pippen and is therefore a superior defender

you choose one example and ignore the 1000 others :oldlol: bad argument

pip > mike on defense

fax

https://i.postimg.cc/0QdsFNXK/pip-is-def-anchor-for-bulls.png

[MadDog]

you choose one example and ignore the 1000 others :oldlol: bad argument

pip > mike on defense

fax

Why does Jordan own Pippen in PER and BPM? :confusedshrug: Remember, those are numbers adding up your box play. Steals and blocks included. Pippen couldn't be the "defensive anchor" while Jordan was the ALL AROUND anchor. Class in session.

[And1AllDay]

Why does Jordan own Pippen in PER and BPM? :confusedshrug: Remember, those are numbers adding up your box play. Steals and blocks included. Pippen couldn't be the "defensive anchor" while Jordan was the ALL AROUND anchor. Class in session.

https://i.postimg.cc/0QdsFNXK/pip-is-def-anchor-for-bulls.png

[MadDog]

Better ignore that ether. Spamming is all you got left. :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

Better ignore that ether. Spamming is all you got left. :oldlol:

when you quote me make sure you do a mans quote. quote the full message and ill do the same. dont edit out my pic like a shook fakkit :oldlol:

class is in session

[MadDog]

You've been spamming the same shit, retard. :oldlol: Quit stalling and address the data.

[And1AllDay]

You've been spamming the same shit, retard. :oldlol: Quit stalling and address the data.

be a man around here. i know your new to ish with a 2020 account but quote like a man

dont half quote like a pwssy boi :oldlol:

class in session

[MadDog]

You're an ALT talking about manhood. Slap yourself ****. :oldlol: When you're done spazzing and ready to talk hoops LMK. No pressure.

[tanibanana]

If Clippers wins the Championship (even WITH Kawhi), I think we can all agree PG > Pippen.
But until then, Pip & PG are equal.

[97 bulls]

Bird has better DRTG than Pippen and is therefore a superior defender

Bird defensive rating is only because he always covered the worse offensive player. He was always hid on defense

[97 bulls]

If Clippers wins the Championship (even WITH Kawhi), I think we can all agree PG > Pippen.
But until then, Pip & PG are equal.

Absolutely not.

[3ba11]

Further confirmation tonight... :dancin:

[ImKobe]

41/13/6 3 stls 75%FG in elimination, 18 straight Playoff games of 20+ points (only player besides MJ, KD & Kobe to ever do it), Pippen is not in the same class, sorry.

[j3lademaster]

41/13/6 3 stls 75%FG in elimination, 18 straight Playoff games of 20+ points (only player besides MJ, KD & Kobe to ever do it), Pippen is not in the same class, sorry.
Idc how arbitrary that “18” straight games is, that is elite company.

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/0QdsFNXK/pip-is-def-anchor-for-bulls.png

3baLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

41/13/6 3 stls 75%FG in elimination, 18 straight Playoff games of 20+ points (only player besides MJ, KD & Kobe to ever do it), Pippen is not in the same class, sorry.

George is better than Pippen ever was. Equal defenders but George has way better handles and shooting which gives him a higher ceiling by far.

[3ba11]

3baLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL?


Look how wrong Jordan was about a traitor and back-biter like Pippen. How Jordan won 6 chips with this mental wreck is a testament to his goatness

[97 bulls]

George is better than Pippen ever was. Equal defenders but George has way better handles and shooting which gives him a higher ceiling by far.

Lol. One game. George has been chucking the whole playoffs. He was bound to have a great game eventually.

[Axe]

Look how wrong Jordan was about a traitor and back-biter like Pippen. How Jordan won 6 chips with this mental wreck is a testament to his goatness
Yet he never won a playoff series without him lmfao