What do you think it would take for a player to end the Goat debate forever.

[coastalmarker99]

In cricket and Hockey, the two goats of those sports are Don Bradman and Wayne Gretzky where basically no one argues on who the goat is.




What would it take for a player to make that happen in basketball?



For me personally, a player that combined Wilt's insane stats with Russell's winning in the modern era would basically shut down the goat debate forever just like Bradman and Gretzky did in their sports.



As like try to imagine trying to argue against a guy in the goat debate who averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds for a season along with raking 10+ titles in the modern era like it would be basically impossible.

[Gohan]

In cricket and Hockey, the two goats of those sports are Don Bradman and Wayne Gretzky where basically no one argues on who the goat is.




What would it take for a player to make that happen in basketball?



For me personally, a player that combined Wilt's insane stats with Russell's winning in the modern era would basically shut down the goat debate forever just like Bradman and Gretzky did in their sports.



As like try to imagine trying to argue against a guy in the goat debate who averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds for a season along with raking 10+ titles in the modern era like it would be basically impossible.

jordan's 10 scoring titles i hold scoring titles to a high standard

[8Ball]

Scoring titles are useless and don't translate towards winning.

The last 20 year scoring title winners didn't win the championship.

1st and 2nd team all-nba titles are much more important and decide much more whether you are playing winning basketball or not.

[wagexslave]

Player would have to go back in time and kill MJ.

[Gohan]

Scoring titles are useless and don't translate towards winning.

The last 20 year scoring title winners didn't win the championship.

1st and 2nd team all-nba titles are much more important and decide much more whether you are playing winning basketball or not.

well win jordan and iverson win scoring titles they are high upon the mvp charts. don't know nor care about the other losers besides curry that win scoring titles. curry has a blimp to show for all of his hard work

[Shooter]

Scoring titles are useless and don't translate towards winning.

The last 20 year scoring title winners didn't win the championship.

1st and 2nd team all-nba titles are much more important and decide much more whether you are playing winning basketball or not.

Bingo

:hammertime:

I thought the Goat Criteria was already set anyway?
● 7,500 playoff points
● 17 All NBA selections
● 12 playoff game winners
● 55 Playoff win shares

Good luck everyone

It would be impossible for someone to have one of these let alone all 4.

LeGoat standard

[SATAN]

2016 etc

[Shogon]

The debate will never end because the objective reality based truth is unknowable. It can't be defined with our limited brains and limited technology. It is impossible to know for sure. There are only opinions. There are no knowable reality based facts.

You would need a time machine OR you would need a computer capable of running a simulation powerful enough to replicate real life that would then put together every possible combination of players in league history and pit them against every other single possible combination in league history including teams that have themselves on it and then they would all need to play a **** ton of 7 game series including some duplicate series to accurately determine who the objectively fact based GOAT truly is.

The amount of factors that go into winning in a team sport are astronomical and far deeper and more complicated than we ever will give it credit for.

We are stupid humans and we like to simplify things and say "LOL THE BEST PLAYER ON TEAM 1 WON SO HE'S THE BEST!" when the truth is so much deeper than we will ever possibly know.

Anyone who argues otherwise is a reality denier.

[Gohan]

The debate will never end because the objective reality based truth is unknowable. It can't be defined with our limited brains and limited technology. It is impossible to know for sure. There are only opinions. There are no knowable reality based facts.

You would need a time machine OR you would need a computer capable of running a simulation powerful enough to replicate real life that would then put together every possible combination of players in league history and pit them against every other single possible combination in league history including teams that have themselves on it and then they would all need to play a **** ton of 7 game series including some duplicate series to accurately determine who the objectively fact based GOAT truly is.

The amount of factors that go into winning in a team sport are astronomical and far deeper and more complicated than we ever will give it credit for.

We are stupid humans and we like to simplify things and say "LOL THE BEST PLAYER ON TEAM 1 WON SO HE'S THE BEST!" when the truth is so much deeper than we will ever possibly know.

Anyone who argues otherwise is a reality denier.

f outta here with this bullshit. the goat debate is not that technical. it's jordan then the rest.

[SATAN]

You're right it's LeBron then Jordan then the rest

[ajnapoleon1978]

Nothing

[3ba11]

there isn't a single poll of the public by a mainstream outlet that doesn't show MJ as the overwhelming goat - literally every poll

show me a poll by a mainstream outlet that has Lebron goat... waiting

So there's no debate - only a small handful of Lebron fans trying to make a debate

[theman93]

One thing is for certain - you can't be the GOAT if you lose the Finals with 3 all-stars to your opponents 1 while also being outscored by a 33 year old bench player who played 67 less minutes.

[SATAN]

The opinions of casuals who watch a few games per year don't mean shit

[3ba11]

The opinions of casuals who watch a few games per year don't mean shit


Show me a poll of the public by a mainstream outlet that has Lebron #1

Waiting

There is no debate - no one has Lebron #1 except a few paid shills in the media and a small handful of fans - the vast majority have MJ as goat

[SATAN]

Show me a poll of the public by a mainstream outlet that has Lebron #1

Waiting

There is no debate - no one has Lebron #1 except a few paid shills in the media and a small handful of fans - the vast majority have MJ as goat

The opinions of casuals who watch a few games per year don't mean shit

[000]

The opinions of casuals who watch a few games per year don't mean shit

I agree. Lebum simps are irrelevant

[3ba11]

The opinions of casuals who watch a few games per year don't mean shit


73% of current NBA players said MJ was goat:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cIhjZi3oo0

https://247sports.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/Article/NBA-players-vote-Michael-Jordan-as-GOAT-over-LeBron-Kobe-131006376/

[Derka]

The Lebron v. Jordan debate will end when we're all dead.

The next generation that never got to see Lebron or Jordan play will debate players more current to their era.

This is the way it works.

[SATAN]

73% of current NBA players said MJ was goat:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cIhjZi3oo0

https://247sports.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/Article/NBA-players-vote-Michael-Jordan-as-GOAT-over-LeBron-Kobe-131006376/

They are all wrong. Fell for the ol' ex NBA, Nike, Wheaties, McDonalds, ESPN, Michael Jackson, Mikey himself's etc etc propaganda. Like the propaganda the old man still seems to put out every time LeBron is on the way to winning another chip in recent years. Bizarre times. Truth is Demar Derozen has been beaten to a bloody pulp by the GOAT. Mikey wouldn't fare well against LeBeast.

[000]

They are all wrong. Fell for the ol' ex NBA, Nike, Wheaties, McDonalds, ESPN, Michael Jackson, Mikey himself's etc etc propaganda. Like the propaganda the old man still seems to put out every time LeBron is on the way to winning another chip in recent years. Bizarre times. Truth is Demar Derozen has been beaten to a bloody pulp by the GOAT. Mikey wouldn't fare well against LeBeast.
He would fare at least as well as Jason terry

[3ba11]

They are all wrong. Fell for the ol' ex NBA, Nike, Wheaties, McDonalds, ESPN, Michael Jackson, Mikey himself's etc etc propaganda. Like the propaganda the old man still seems to put out every time LeBron is on the way to winning another chip in recent years. Bizarre times. Truth is Demar Derozen has been beaten to a bloody pulp by the GOAT. Mikey wouldn't fare well against LeBeast.


Jordan was 6/6 with a sidekick that had weaker stats than Ben Simmons (less RPG, APG, efficiency, PER, and equal scoring).

and people don't realize that Finals record = team ceiling... Jordan's efficient jumpshooting fit with everyone and every system, which yielded the best teams

[Shooter]

Show me a poll of the public by a mainstream outlet that has Lebron #1

Waiting

There is no debate - no one has Lebron #1 except a few paid shills in the media and a small handful of fans - the vast majority have MJ as goat

RealGM

2ez

:hammertime::djparty

[Shooter]

Guys? I thought the Goat Criteria was already set:

● 7,500 playoff points
● 17 All NBA selections
● 12 playoff game winners
● 55 Playoff win shares

Good luck everyone

It would be impossible for someone to have one of these let alone all 4.

LeGoat standard

[Rysio]

Being the perfect player both statistically and impact. Get drafted to one of the worst teams in the league and turn them into champions without super teams just average players aka huge carry jobs.

[MadDog]

Will take a player who A) has a winning record in the finals and B) consistent Wilt-like regular season dominance in the finals AKA Jordan. Racking up MVPs and longevity totals are nice. But they don't compare to what you do in the postseason. Especially the finals.

[getting_old]

after Abdul-Jabbar and then to BIrd/Magic and then Jordan

my GOAT talk was ended because what's the point of choosing among them

and for others that came along after them

just enjoy

[Bronbron23]

In cricket and Hockey, the two goats of those sports are Don Bradman and Wayne Gretzky where basically no one argues on who the goat is.




What would it take for a player to make that happen in basketball?



For me personally, a player that combined Wilt's insane stats with Russell's winning in the modern era would basically shut down the goat debate forever just like Bradman and Gretzky did in their sports.



As like try to imagine trying to argue against a guy in the goat debate who averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds for a season along with raking 10+ titles in the modern era like it would be basically impossible.

It depends on what you value. Bron stans have a lower bar so all someone would need to pass him is 2 or 3 chips and better stats which in this era is gonna be easier to achieve. For mj stans they woukd require someone to still have crazy stats and accolades but they'd also have to win at least 6 chips. That's gonna almost impossible to achieve. Russell stans are probably the safest because nobody is gonna win 11 chips.

[HylianNightmare]

Not being 4/10

[Ice Trae]

Nothing. NBA fans are the most insecure of them all

[3ba11]

RealGM

2ez

:hammertime::djparty


I'm talking ESPN, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOXSPORTS - show me a poll by a mainstream outlet that shows Lebron as goat - they all show Jordan as goat and by wide margins, while you have..... realgm (not even ISH).... have at it boss lol

[sdot_thadon]

I'm talking ESPN, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOXSPORTS - show me a poll by a mainstream outlet that shows Lebron as goat - they all show Jordan as goat and by wide margins, while you have..... realgm (not even ISH).... have at it boss lol

Sounds like you need big media to tell you what and how to think, and why too I suppose. Unfortunately for you it's gonna be a debate for the rest of your tortured years on this earth. This is the cycle of things.

Edit: wtf happened to your account? dont tell me you got permabanned here of all places man.

[paksat]

I mean if someone came along and won 5 straight in fairly dominant fashion, it'd be hard to argue

it's one less than jordan but winning 5 in a row to me is better than having 6 total, 5 in a row is just unfathomable almost really

[Phoenix]

I mean if someone came along and won 5 straight in fairly dominant fashion, it'd be hard to argue

it's one less than jordan but winning 5 in a row to me is better than having 6 total, 5 in a row is just unfathomable almost really

True, but I just can't see it under current conditions. The Warriors were as equipped as any team to do it( especially after KD joined) but look at what happened. Injuries derailed a 3peat and then KD was gone. Players are more interested in their own branding nowadays and will follow the money. If it happens to land them a few rings fine, but I don't see any team having the kind of circumstances needed to 5-peat in the modern era. Hell we haven't had a 3peat in nearly 20 years. When the 60s Celtics were raking up titles they had the benefit of alot of the best talent on their side, first round byes and much less teams to face.

[Spurs m8]

As long as there's low iq fans that spend all day inside on here, live with mom and dream of sucking off LeBron...the dumb fvcks on here will always try and push it.

Funny how they're always gaslighting, lying and leaving out context to try and push it though lmao

Even funnier that Jordan keeps them up at night

[Spurs m8]

I'm talking ESPN, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOXSPORTS - show me a poll by a mainstream outlet that shows Lebron as goat - they all show Jordan as goat and by wide margins, while you have..... realgm (not even ISH).... have at it boss lol

Real did have Jordan...everytime this liar mentions real gm...someone posts the actual realgm poll, over 600 votes and bron isn't even close.

Then shooter disappears.

Like the little gaslighting worm he is

[3ba11]

someone to come along who's better than Jordan

[ImKobe]

The GOAT standard is unreachable.

100% Finals win rate
best scorer in the league for every single season in your prime, both RS, Playoffs & Finals
never get outplayed in a single series, never have a teammate outperform you
Not only be a GOAT scorer, but also a DPOY-level defensive player

Good luck.

[paksat]

The GOAT standard is unreachable.

100% Finals win rate
best scorer in the league for every single season in your prime, both RS, Playoffs & Finals
never get outplayed in a single series, never have a teammate outperform you
Not only be a GOAT scorer, but also a DPOY-level defensive player

Good luck.

and to be fair, the league did make jordan fairly untouchable so it made it easier for him to do all this

the PROBLEM is they tried to give that same treatment to a sloppy jump shooting, no go to move, roided up fraud and it failed miserably.

[ImKobe]

and to be fair, the league did make jordan fairly untouchable so it made it easier for him to do all this

the PROBLEM is they tried to give that same treatment to a sloppy jump shooting, no go to move, roided up fraud and it failed miserably.

But Jordan actually WAS untouchable, which star ever outplayed him in a Playoff series?

[paksat]

But Jordan actually WAS untouchable, which star ever outplayed him in a Playoff series?

I meant you couldn't actually put your hand on the guy, that makes it a ton easier to play.

he's still damn strong at everything he does, so i'm not saying it's just the refs but.. you can't take someone with a 48 inch vertical and great everything else and not let people play defense on him.

[ImKobe]

I meant you couldn't actually put your hand on the guy, that makes it a ton easier to play.

he's still damn strong at everything he does, so i'm not saying it's just the refs but.. you can't take someone with a 48 inch vertical and great everything else and not let people play defense on him.

This is false, the Pistons got away with murdering him in the paint, their entire defense was focused around beating him down. Jordan was a jump shooter in his 2nd 3-Peat, he couldn't be stopped.

[SATAN]

ESPN, ABC, CBS, NBC, FOXSPORTS -

Thanks for proving my point

[paksat]

This is false, the Pistons got away with murdering him in the paint, their entire defense was focused around beating him down. Jordan was a jump shooter in his 2nd 3-Peat, he couldn't be stopped.

for a while yes you're correct, but once the new rules got implemented they made it so you couldn't breathe on him. I can think of one right off the top of my head where jordan never even gets touched hitting a fade away and he's walking away saying, "he can't guard me"

well yeah i mean... he's not allowed to clearly lol

also the pistons got called for those fouls for the most part. And it's my opinion why they implemented the jordan rules in the first place. They knew the league wouldn't let you breathe on him so they said f it, we're gonna get our moneys worth.

you can't seriously watch his 63 point game vs celtics and with a straight face and tell me the refs didn't have clear orders.

[Thenameless]

What would it take for a player to make that happen in basketball?

For me personally, a player that combined Wilt's insane stats with Russell's winning in the modern era would basically shut down the goat debate forever.




It's a pretty tall order, but that's what it would take in order to end the debate forever. Individual stats that break season records (for peak and prime ratings) and career records, as well as massive team success while this said player is at their best (not riding the pine in their fifteenth to twentieth year).

[Gohan]

jordan almost did it, if only he wouldnt of retired

[And1AllDay]

Guys? I thought the Goat Criteria was already set:

● 7,500 playoff points
● 17 All NBA selections
● 12 playoff game winners
● 55 Playoff win shares

Good luck everyone

It would be impossible for someone to have one of these let alone all 4.

LeGoat standard

anyone home? :oldlol:

[StrongLurk]

Thing with Jordan is he is not just the GOAT in basketball, but easily one of the GOATS of ALL professional sports in the modern era. He put a big gap between him and the rest of NBA history.

It's hard to imagine someone SURPASSING MJ...I think it's more likely that he is always a CO-GOAT at a minimum.

Lebron is the closest to Jordan in my opinion but he still has someone exploitable weaknesses to his game and had a serious mental meltdown (2011 finals) which is usually a big no-no for any GOAT. I could put Lebron with MJ if Lebron was actually a very good perimeter shooter (instead of average at best), could shoot free throws around 85%, and won the 2011 finals (which would give him 5 FMVP/5 Rings).

[iamgine]

It would take...a Wayne Gretzky.

Kareem is #1 in points with ~38400 points. A player would need ~57000 points to equal Gretzky's difference with the 2nd place scorer.

To score 57000 points...say a player play 20 seasons, 80 games per season. He'd have to average ~35 ppg for his career.

It's quite unrealistic.

[Airupthere]

jordan almost did it, if only he wouldnt of retired

Right. Jordan is at the top of most lists as it is but he could have solidified that if he had not retired twice. That would have been insane if he had 8-9 rings and fmvps in total. If Jordan was really that vain he could have superteamed with the Lakers in 2000 and statpad his way to retirement. But we know he's not going to do the lebron way.

[8Ball]

This debate will go on forever. There will always be dispute.

Just the way I want it.

[8Ball]

Right. Jordan is at the top of most lists as it is but he could have solidified that if he had not retired twice. That would have been insane if he had 8-9 rings and fmvps in total. If Jordan was really that vain he could have superteamed with the Lakers in 2000 and statpad his way to retirement. But we know he's not going to do the lebron way.

Jordan quit because a general manager was mean to him. Then he made a documentary about it 20 years later because he was still butt hurt about the legendary Krauss.

Imagine LeBron quitting basketball in 2014 because Pat Riley was mean. Weak.

[outofstomach]

Scoring titles are useless and don't translate towards winning.

The last 20 year scoring title winners didn't win the championship.

1st and 2nd team all-nba titles are much more important and decide much more whether you are playing winning basketball or not.
they’re useless because lebron doesn’t get them, gotcha

[DJmicah]

I would say Westbrook stats (minus the inefficiency) Leonard defense, Curry or Dame shooting, only 1 other all star on the team that doesn't outplay them, drafted to a team that isn't extremely good already/no history of winning and a Tim Duncan like career with 4 or 5 rings with maybe ONE loss in the finals and you got it

[Spain_]

7+ championships as the clear number one in the modern era.

[AirBonner]

Beat a 73win team while not having any all stars

[Gohan]

Beat a 73win team while not having any all stars

lmao if it wasnt for klay's 11 made 3's in game 6 thunder would of beaten that warrior team. that warriors team is extremely overrated atleast in the playoffs.

[AirBonner]

lmao if it wasnt for klay's 11 made 3's in game 6 thunder would of beaten that warrior team. that warriors team is extremely overrated atleast in the playoffs.
2016 cuts deep I see

[Gohan]

2016 cuts deep I see

actually i was rooting for cavs when i hated curry, now i like curry.