KD, Lebron, PG, whoever - they only learned to team-hop, not actually WIN (organic)

[3ba11]

There's a difference between teaming up and learning how to actually WIN (organic) - teaming up requires GM/agent skill to team-hop, while organic winning requires getting better at basketball, namely adjusting one's game to develop teammates and system.

We already saw Giannis adjust his game in the last series.. He learned the winning formula for his game is to play like a center offensively and set a lot of screens - this know-how is transferrable to any team to win organically.. Otoh, Lebron never learned what works for his game except teaming up - he never learned how to WIN like giannis is now (organic)..

Ultimately, Lebron has a 4/10 team ceiling/Finals record despite having 1b's and super-teams, which is nowhere near goat, and it's fraudulent to pretend it is.. In addition to learning how to win (rather than just teaming up), there's a perseverance factor with organic winning that develops better character than team-hopping around like a kid.


CONCLUSION: Given the' documented goat talent of Giannis, such as MVP and DPOY in the same season, stats, and dunk record - if he actually learns how to WIN (organic) this year, then he's superior at basketball than all these other guys (mostly inferior talents) that just learned to how to team-hop - they couldn't stick it out that extra year or two that it takes to figure out how to win like 11' Dirk, 89' Isaiah, 09' Kobe, 94' Hakeem, or 91' Jordan.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Learning to team-hop isn't learning to win... Learning to win = organic (adjusting one's game to develop teammates and a competitive brand of ball), which nobody in this era has learned to do.

Based on this factor, goat lists should be revised as follows - Guys like Dirk, Kobe, MJ, Bird, Curry, possibly Giannis and others that won with their original team without team-hopping around should be moved up goat lists immediately.. Not sure how far up, but just up.

[Shooter]

Imagine going 1-9

https://i.postimg.cc/0jRM6w4q/Le-Giannis.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/f40c70a52dbf0e83b9d1da6a9eaf7f52/tenor.gif

[3ba11]

Imagine going 1-9

https://i.postimg.cc/0jRM6w4q/Le-Giannis.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/f40c70a52dbf0e83b9d1da6a9eaf7f52/tenor.gif


^^^^ those guys were both lotter in their first few years

So they got several seasons before entering the playoffs as favored high seeds

Not comparable to Jordan's year 1 eight seeds

Ultimately, everyone not named Bird/Robinson that wasn't drafted to a good team doesn't win a series in their first few years, so your knock on Jordan is something everyone does, aka you don't have a legit knock on the GOAT

[3ba11]

Title fixed

[MadDog]

PG made back to back conference finals. Giannis hasn't won anything yet. Pump the brakes, OP.

[Smoke117]

Imagine going 1-9

https://i.postimg.cc/0jRM6w4q/Le-Giannis.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/f40c70a52dbf0e83b9d1da6a9eaf7f52/tenor.gif

:roll: :roll: No Pip, no Chip.

[bison]

Pretty decent 3ball impression. 7/10.

[8Ball]

Imagine going 1-9

https://i.postimg.cc/0jRM6w4q/Le-Giannis.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/f40c70a52dbf0e83b9d1da6a9eaf7f52/tenor.gif

Giannis never went 1-9 did he?

[And1AllDay]

Imagine going 1-9

https://i.postimg.cc/0jRM6w4q/Le-Giannis.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/f40c70a52dbf0e83b9d1da6a9eaf7f52/tenor.gif

:oldlol::roll:

[And1AllDay]

Pretty decent 3ball impression. 7/10.

uhhh


you think this alt magically appears while the other 3ball acct stops posting is random? :oldlol: its him he already said its him even a dumbass like you could figure it out i thought:oldlol: guess not

[red1]

jordan owes pippen everything. best second option ever.



shaq would've knocked jordan out in the locker room if they played together.

[Spurs m8]

Lakers crushed LeBrons legacy even further.

His first season there he had some younger pieces, not the Wades, Bosh, Loves, ADs, etc....so if he won a ring with them and helped develop those younger, unproven players along the way, would have been a decent legacy boost.

But...he couldn't even make the playoffs.

Then AD got injured after carrying the Lakers to 2 wins in these playoffs...and bron couldn't get a single win without him...even with all those pieces.

Lakers have exposed this fraud so heavily...
I mean..we already knew it...it just cemented it.

Dudes a loser

[SouBeachTalents]

Lakers crushed LeBrons legacy even further.

His first season there he had some younger pieces, not the Wades, Bosh, Loves, ADs, etc....so if he won a ring with them and helped develop those younger, unproven players along the way, would have been a decent legacy boost.

But...he couldn't even make the playoffs.

Then AD got injured after carrying the Lakers to 2 wins in the playoffs...and bron couldn't get a single win without him...even with all those pieces.

Lakers have exposed this fraud so heavily...
I mean..we already knew it...it just cemented it.

Dudes a loser
True, that 4th title/FMVP was a legacy crusher

[Spurs m8]

True, that 4th title/FMVP was a legacy crusher


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3A5EbVXwAM0att?format=jpg&name=900x900

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This freak actually made another account? Hah!

Prob wanted a fresh start after making those ANTI Giannis threads. No skill! Exploitable fraud!!! :lol Only thing Giannis 'figured out' was that his team could compete with a hobbled Brooklyn. Credit to Greek, and salute if he wins without jumping ship. But lets call a spade a spade.

[ShawkFactory]

Somehow if the Bucks win the championship this year he's a better basketball player than Lebron or KD ever were :lol

Somehow isn't OPs worst take of the week. It's getting desperate but after you do this for close to a decade you run out of ways to try and say Jordan > Lebron.

I guess I applaud the creativity.

[SouBeachTalents]

Somehow if the Bucks win the championship this year he's a better basketball player than Lebron or KD ever were :lol

Somehow isn't OPs worst take of the week. It's getting desperate but after you do this for close to a decade you run out of ways to try and say Jordan > Lebron.

I guess I applaud the creativity.
A couple days ago he called him Middleton's Pippen, then said Jamison was better than Middleton. So in the span of a few days Giannis has gone from < Jamison to a few wins away from being better than LeBron

[Phoenix]

This freak actually made another account? Hah!

Prob wanted a fresh start after making those ANTI Giannis threads. No skill! Exploitable fraud!!! :lol Only thing Giannis 'figured out' was that his team could compete with a hobbled Brooklyn. Credit to Greek, and salute if he wins without jumping ship. But lets call a spade a spade.

The mods/admins are the ones who see the new accounts and click 'ok'. Then will complain about his threads. 42 posts a day. :biggums:

Forum is str8 trash :oldlol:, it's hilarious.

[SouBeachTalents]

The mods/admins are the ones who see the new accounts and click 'ok'. Then will complain about his threads. 42 posts a day. :biggums:

Forum is str8 trash :oldlol:, it's hilarious.
You know who was str8 trash, '89 Pippen

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The mods/admins are the ones who see the new accounts and click 'ok'. Then will complain about his threads. 42 posts a day. :biggums:

Forum is str8 trash :oldlol:, it's hilarious.

Yup... Not like the Bron fam are any better, but at least they're loyal dikksuckers. :lol

3ball is that unloyal whore thirsting for another buck. MFer will say his opinion 'evolved' but he's never had a stable one. Everythings built on how it makes Lebron look.

[Phoenix]

You know who was str8 trash, '89 Pippen

Really? We've never had anyone here talk about that before. Tell me more.:oldlol:

[Phoenix]

Yup... Not like the Bron fam are any better, but at least they're loyal dikksuckers. :lol

3ball is that unloyal whore thirsting for another buck. MFer will say his opinion 'evolved' but he's never had a stable one. Everythings built on how it makes Lebron look.

Pretty much this. This much dedication to spamming rhetoric for or against like, 3 players, requires a straight jacket, 4 grey walls, no windows, no sharp objects nearby, and throw away the key. Actually even better, melt it down. We can't take any risks.

[outofstomach]

Pretty much this. This much dedication to spamming rhetoric for or against like, 3 players, requires a straight jacket, 4 grey walls, no windows, no sharp objects nearby, and throw away the key. Actually even better, melt it down. We can't take any risks.:lol :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Pretty much this. This much dedication to spamming rhetoric for or against like, 3 players, requires a straight jacket, 4 grey walls, no windows, no sharp objects nearby, and throw away the key. Actually even better, melt it down. We can't take any risks.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/52007423/kill-it-before-it-breeds-again.jpg

[3ba11]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3A5EbVXwAM0att?format=jpg&name=900x900


:lol:

[red1]

pippen led the bulls to 55-wins without jordan :oldlol:


2nd round game 7 without jordan :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

pippen led the bulls to 55-wins without jordan :oldlol:


2nd round game 7 without jordan :roll:
Yep, and was a horseshit call away from beating Mike's biggest rival and making the conference finals

[RogueBorg]

Imagine going 1-9

https://i.postimg.cc/0jRM6w4q/Le-Giannis.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/f40c70a52dbf0e83b9d1da6a9eaf7f52/tenor.gif

Imagine being -86 in Finals games. What a loser.

[red1]

Yep, and was a horseshit call away from beating Mike's biggest rival and making the conference finals

jordan's greatest finals rivalvry is against malone and stockton


meanwhile OP has the audacity to discredit lebron's ring against curry/klay/iggy/dray :oldlol:



jordan's bulls were a 50-win team without him :roll: :roll:

[RogueBorg]

pippen led the bulls to 55-wins without jordan :oldlol:


2nd round game 7 without jordan :roll:

The Bulls were 3-Peat Champions with Jordan, Conference Semis losers when he retired, and 3-Peat Champions when he came back. It's funny no one mentions what happened to the Pippen-led Bulls in the 1994 playoffs. It's like 55 wins was the end of the story. GTFO

[RogueBorg]

jordan's bulls were a 50-win team without him :roll: :roll:

How'd they do in the playoffs without him? Google it and get back to me. I'll wait.

[ShawkFactory]

The Bulls were 3-Peat Champions with Jordan, Conference Semis losers when he retired, and 3-Peat Champions when he came back. It's funny no one mentions what happened to the Pippen-led Bulls in the 1994 playoffs. It's like 55 wins was the end of the story. GTFO

They basically beat the team that was a couple plays away from winning a ring. They were very good.

[red1]

How'd they do in the playoffs without him? Google it and get back to me. I'll wait.

everyone knows how they did. game 7 of the SECOND ROUND - replacing jordan with nothing


50 god-damn wins without baldan.

[SouBeachTalents]

jordan's greatest finals rivalvry is against malone and stockton


meanwhile OP has the audacity to discredit lebron's ring against curry/klay/iggy/dray :oldlol:



jordan's bulls were a 50-win team without him :roll: :roll:
And that was with Pippen missing 10 games & Grant missing 12. So if not for that missed time chances are excellent the Bulls get the 1 seed. 3ball basically shits on Jordan's era by insinuating a complete and total bum like Pippen nearly led the Bulls to the 1 seed without Jordan :lol

[red1]

The Bulls were 3-Peat Champions with Jordan, Conference Semis losers when he retired, and 3-Peat Champions when he came back. It's funny no one mentions what happened to the Pippen-led Bulls in the 1994 playoffs. It's like 55 wins was the end of the story. GTFO

weak.



jordan's team was stacked. no wonder he didnt need to "team and hop and create superteams."



he already HAD a superteam led by scottie "the trunk" pippen





it all makes sense now. thats why 3ball starts 100 insecure threads a week. he knows the truth. :oldlol:

[red1]

And that was with Pippen missing 10 games & Grant missing 12. So if not for that missed time chances are excellent the Bulls get the 1 seed. 3ball basically shits on Jordan's era by insinuating a complete and total bum like Pippen nearly led the Bulls to the 1 seed without Jordan :lol

:roll:




what a joke. 3ball singlehandedly knocked mj down to 1.b status with his threads.

[SouBeachTalents]

:roll:




what a joke. 3ball singlehandedly knocked mj down to 1.b status with his threads.
Look how fcking weak the league was

Scrub Pippen wins 55 games
Danny fcking Manning & the Hawks are the 1 seed
Reggie with Rik Smits as his 2nd option nearly makes the Finals
Ewing with John Starks as his 2nd option nearly wins the title
Hakeem with Otis Thorpe as his 2nd option wins the title

[8Ball]

Name me one other super team in the 90s besides the Bulls?


There were none. Jordan had the super team and only him.

[red1]

jordan's main rival:


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Bl0Q0QJ3nxAaZiv0gdS6GMn_ISA=/0x0:3600x2400/1200x800/filters:focal(1383x403:1959x979)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/66835855/JWR_with_Basketball__1_.0.jpg

[red1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0D1vVJXgAAl6jY.jpg

[red1]

Look how fcking weak the league was

Scrub Pippen wins 55 games
Danny fcking Manning & the Hawks are the 1 seed
Reggie with Rik Smits as his 2nd option nearly makes the Finals
Ewing with John Starks as his 2nd option nearly wins the title
Hakeem with Otis Thorpe as his 2nd option wins the title

50+ win team without baldan. :oldlol:

[Shooter]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0D1vVJXgAAl6jY.jpg

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif

[DoctorP]

There's a difference between teaming up and learning how to actually WIN (organic) - teaming up requires GM/agent skill to team-hop, while organic winning requires getting better at basketball, namely adjusting one's game to develop teammates and system.

We already saw Giannis adjust his game in the last series.. He learned the winning formula for his game is to play like a center offensively and set a lot of screens - this know-how is transferrable to any team to win organically.. Otoh, Lebron never learned what works for his game except teaming up - he never learned how to WIN like giannis is now (organic)..

Ultimately, Lebron has a 4/10 team ceiling/Finals record despite having 1b's and super-teams, which is nowhere near goat, and it's fraudulent to pretend it is.. In addition to learning how to win (rather than just teaming up), there's a perseverance factor with organic winning that develops better character than team-hopping around like a kid.


CONCLUSION: Given the' documented goat talent of Giannis, such as MVP and DPOY in the same season, stats, and dunk record - if he actually learns how to WIN (organic) this year, then he's superior at basketball than all these other guys (mostly inferior talents) that just learned to how to team-hop - they couldn't stick it out that extra year or two that it takes to figure out how to win like 11' Dirk, 89' Isaiah, 09' Kobe, 94' Hakeem, or 91' Jordan.


0*nsgXxd0kwN3qT2ks.gif (https://miro.medium.com/max/1120/0*nsgXxd0kwN3qT2ks.gif)

[3ba11]

Look how fcking weak the league was

Scrub Pippen wins 55 games
Danny fcking Manning & the Hawks are the 1 seed
Reggie with Rik Smits as his 2nd option nearly makes the Finals
Ewing with John Starks as his 2nd option nearly wins the title
Hakeem with Otis Thorpe as his 2nd option wins the title


Regarding Otis Thorpe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaIsDShr_7U&t=14s


And why knock the 90's for not having any teams with 3 elite first options on the same team (super-teams)??

It's harder to win without super-teams (90's) than with super-teams

[ShawkFactory]

There's a difference between teaming up and learning how to actually WIN (organic) - teaming up requires GM/agent skill to team-hop, while organic winning requires getting better at basketball, namely adjusting one's game to develop teammates and system.

We already saw Giannis adjust his game in the last series.. He learned the winning formula for his game is to play like a center offensively and set a lot of screens - this know-how is transferrable to any team to win organically.. Otoh, Lebron never learned what works for his game except teaming up - he never learned how to WIN like giannis is now (organic)..

Ultimately, Lebron has a 4/10 team ceiling/Finals record despite having 1b's and super-teams, which is nowhere near goat, and it's fraudulent to pretend it is.. In addition to learning how to win (rather than just teaming up), there's a perseverance factor with organic winning that develops better character than team-hopping around like a kid.


CONCLUSION: Given the' documented goat talent of Giannis, such as MVP and DPOY in the same season, stats, and dunk record - if he actually learns how to WIN (organic) this year, then he's superior at basketball than all these other guys (mostly inferior talents) that just learned to how to team-hop - they couldn't stick it out that extra year or two that it takes to figure out how to win like 11' Dirk, 89' Isaiah, 09' Kobe, 94' Hakeem, or 91' Jordan.

It’s not gonna happen.

No matter how hard you try

[3ba11]

It’s not gonna happen.

No matter how hard you try


It isn't my opinion - it's the historical record:

KD and Lebron only learned to team-hop - they never learned to WIN (organic)

Learning to win (organic) requires superior skill by adjusting to teammates and honing/developing superior strategy over many years..

Unfortunately, KD and Lebron quit learning how to win (organic) and opted for the cheat code, so they're inferior to greats that learned to win (organic), including MJ, Kobe, Hakeem, Dirk, Wilt, Bird and more.

[ShawkFactory]

It isn't my opinion - it's the historical record:

KD and Lebron only learned to team-hop - they never learned to WIN (organic)

Learning to win (organic) requires superior skill by adjusting to teammates and honing/developing superior strategy over many years..

Unfortunately, KD and Lebron quit learning how to win (organic) and opted for the cheat code, so they're inferior to greats that learned to win (organic), including MJ, Kobe, Hakeem, Dirk, Wilt, Bird and more.

So Lebron and KD are no longer in your top 8 or 14 or whatever?

[3ba11]

So Lebron and KD are no longer in your top 8 or 14 or whatever?


My top 10 is mostly based on guys that learned to WIN (organic), with few exception:


1) MJ
2) Wilt
3) Bird
4) Russell
5) Kareem
6) Kobe
7) Hakeem
8) Duncan
9) Magic
10) Dirk


These guys learned to win - they learned how their game adjusts to teammates, which is transferrable to any team - put prime MJ or Russell on any team, and they had acquired the knowledge to eventually win with that team (organic).

[AirBonner]

Op had wilt in his top 2 without an organic ring

[ShawkFactory]

My top 10 is mostly based on guys that learned to WIN (organic), with few exception:


1) MJ
2) Wilt
3) Bird
4) Russell
5) Kareem
6) Kobe
7) Hakeem
8) Duncan
9) Magic
10) Dirk


These guys learned to win - they learned how their game adjusts to teammates, which is transferrable to any team - put prime MJ or Russell on any team, and they had acquired the knowledge to eventually win with that team (organic).

So we’re talking about learning to win over years with a specific team but then saying that that’s transferable to any other?

Seems like learning to win with one team means you know how to win with one team.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that but don’t give me this other shit

[3ba11]

Op had wilt in his top 2 without an organic ring


I'm open to moving Wilt down the ranking but the reality is that trades weren't collusions back then.. Wilt made a bunch of Finals organically but lost to the league all-star team (Celtics) - then he was traded to the Sixers - it's case-dependent, and his situation is unique

[3ba11]

So we’re talking about learning to win over years with a specific team but then saying that that’s transferable to any other?

Seems like learning to win with one team means you know how to win with one team.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that but don’t give me this other shit


Jordan learned to become more of a jumpshooter, so his game could fit into a ball movement system like the triangle.. Giannis learned to be a screen-setter and more of a center on offense to beat the Nets..

These are methodologies that Jordan and Giannis learned to fit with teammates and it's transferrable to any team - so they could win with any team given sufficient time to build a team - they learned how to do it, while Lebron and KD didn't..

And MJ or Giannis would probably win FASTER with another team then they did with the Bulls/Bucks because they wouldn't have any trial and error - they know the formula and superior strategy already... Btw, I know that Giannis hasn't won yet and might not win this year - but we're all seeing him develop more each series and figure it out, so I'm using him as an example to illustrate the point.

[ShawkFactory]

Jordan learned to become more of a jumpshooter, so his game could fit into a ball movement system like the triangle.. Giannis learned to be a screen-setter and more of a center on offense to beat the Nets..

These are methodologies that Jordan and Giannis learned to fit with teammates and it's transferrable to any team - so they could win with any team given sufficient time to build a team - they learned how to do it, while Lebron and KD didn't..

And MJ or Giannis would probably win FASTER with another team then they did with the Bulls/Bucks because they wouldn't have any trial and error - they know the formula and superior strategy already... Btw, I know that Giannis hasn't won yet and might not win this year - but we're all seeing him develop more each series and figure it out, so I'm using him as an example to illustrate the point.

Lol we’re talking about 2 games where Bud realized there was a matchup to exploit. He didn’t play like that against the Hawks. And is just on a very good team in general

But anyway...it’s funny how many different player ranking criteria have been created in the last decade in the name of Lebron James. Say what you want about the guy but dudes got juice

[3ba11]

dudes got juice


All fraudsters have juice - but it's fraudulent - I recommend watching the show "American Greed" - that's what Lebron did to the NBA

I'm only talking about him because he's a fraud - everything about him is manufactured, including his jumper and tough childhood - it's a statistical fact that he doesn't take contested jumpers like his peers (he defers them, thus inflating his efficiency) and he was coddled since being discovered at 10 years old - since then, he's had the best of everything..

Furthermore, he was too weak to stick it out like Dirk and win organically, so he formed a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were winning - this manufactured a Finals streak, at which point the media pretended that winning a 1-star team conference with a super-team is equal to owning THE ENTIRE LEAGUE

Ultimately, Lebron removed the best brand of basketball from the league (organic) and replaced it with short-term, mercenary teamwork, which is entirely inferior - the long-term organic brands of prior eras would rag-doll today's collusions and shit brand of ball.
.

[ShawkFactory]

Since we’re talking about Giannis in those couple games against the Nets: are we saying that Lebron, in the literally 50 playoff series he’s been in in his career, hasn’t switched things up for a few games here and there based on matchups? Is that the argument, that him switching teams means he didn’t do something that every basketball player aside from monta Ellis has done?

I’m confused as to why you think you’re the only person who has watched lebron. Seems like you haven’t actually

[3ba11]

Since we’re talking about Giannis in those couple games against the Nets: are we saying that Lebron, in the literally 50 playoff series he’s been in in his career, hasn’t switched things up for a few games here and there based on matchups? Is that the argument, that him switching teams means he didn’t do something that every basketball player aside from monta Ellis has done?

I’m confused as to why you think you’re the only person who has watched lebron. Seems like you haven’t actually


Giannis is just 1 example of a player learning to win (organic)..

Lebron simply never did it - the story of his career is what HE needs around him, not what teammates need from him.

If he had the skills to achieve the same production while mixing in more off-ball play, he could get 22/6/5 and 1st team defense out of Hughes like Arenas did (who was an elite jumpshooter)

We saw Lebron destroy Ingram, Hughes, Jamison, and many more because he lacks to skills to simultaneously maximize his production and his teammates

[tpols]

It isn't my opinion - it's the historical record:

KD and Lebron only learned to team-hop - they never learned to WIN (organic)

Learning to win (organic) requires superior skill by adjusting to teammates and honing/developing superior strategy over many years..

Unfortunately, KD and Lebron quit learning how to win (organic) and opted for the cheat code, so they're inferior to greats that learned to win (organic), including MJ, Kobe, Hakeem, Dirk, Wilt, Bird and more.

You better include Curry in that list.

[ShawkFactory]

Giannis is just 1 example of a player learning to win (organic)..

Lebron simply never did it - the story of his career is what HE needs around him, not what teammates need from him.

If he had the skills to achieve the same production while mixing in more off-ball play, he could get 22/6/5 and 1st team defense out of Hughes like Arenas did (who was an elite jumpshooter)

We saw Lebron destroy Ingram, Hughes, Jamison, and many more because he lacks to skills to simultaneously maximize his production and his teammates

Looking further into Monta Ellis..do you think there’s another season in the modern era where a guy scored 26 a game with something even close to a .023 WS/48 and a negative BPM?

The eye test always told me he was a terrible shot jacker who just scored a lot but the numbers back it up.

Maybe Stackhouse that year he scored 30 a game but took like 25 shots?

[TheCorporation]

Cute. I just use facts.



Top 5 NBA Players
1. LeBron, 7631
2. Jordan, 5987
3. Kareem, 5762
4. Kobe, 5640
5. Shaq, 5250

[SouBeachTalents]

Since we’re talking about Giannis in those couple games against the Nets: are we saying that Lebron, in the literally 50 playoff series he’s been in in his career, hasn’t switched things up for a few games here and there based on matchups? Is that the argument, that him switching teams means he didn’t do something that every basketball player aside from monta Ellis has done?

I’m confused as to why you think you’re the only person who has watched lebron. Seems like you haven’t actually
OP admitted he hasn't watched an NBA game in 10 years, hence why his predictions are always wrong, and in most cases embarrassingly so (i.e. Oubre > Klay)

[3ba11]

Looking further into Monta Ellis..do you think there’s another season in the modern era where a guy scored 26 a game with something even close to a .023 WS/48 and a negative BPM?

The eye test always told me he was a terrible shot jacker who just scored a lot but the numbers back it up.

Maybe Stackhouse that year he scored 30 a game but took like 25 shots?


Despite using more possessions (usage), Jordan's efficiency per possession (ortg) is higher than Lebron's and infact goat-level - goat-level efficiency at goat volume is GOAT, which is why Jordan is #1 all-time in Player Efficiency Rating and WS/48.

Educate yourself:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-michael-jordan-was-the-best/

[3ba11]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/paine-jordan-0416-1.png?w=575


From an efficiency standpoint (vertical axis), notice how Jordan's red dot is above the glut where most everyone else is - only a few single dots (the efficiency outliers) are above him, while he remains THE outlier from a volume standpoint (horizantal axis)

[TheCorporation]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/paine-jordan-0416-1.png?w=575


From an efficiency standpoint (vertical axis), notice how Jordan's red dot is above the glut where most everyone else is - only a few single dots (the efficiency outliers) are above him, while he remains THE outlier from a volume standpoint (horizantal axis)


Cute. All that and still...


Top 5 NBA Players
1. LeBron, 7631
2. Jordan, 5987
3. Kareem, 5762
4. Kobe, 5640
5. Shaq, 5250

[ShawkFactory]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/paine-jordan-0416-1.png?w=575


From an efficiency standpoint (vertical axis), notice how Jordan's red dot is above the glut where most everyone else is - only a few single dots (the efficiency outliers) are above him, while he remains THE outlier from a volume standpoint (horizantal axis)

Ok that’s cool I never said Lebron was better than Jordan though.

Do you think stackhouse was annoying to play with in his earlier years?

[3ba11]

Ok that’s cool I never said Lebron was better than Jordan though.

Do you think stackhouse was annoying to play with in his earlier years?


Not really.. Why you ask

[ShawkFactory]

Not really.. Why you ask

Like, was he good enough to warrant taking 25 shots a game in a bad team? I feel like Corliss Williamson or whoever could have gotten a couple extra a game if they were going to lose anyway.

[3ba11]

Like, was he good enough to warrant taking 25 shots a game in a bad team? I feel like Corliss Williamson or whoever could have gotten a couple extra a game if they were going to lose anyway.


^^^ the bolded are the operative words

a bad team makes it more likely that he deserves 25 shots.

But in reality, Stack wasn't really good enough to take 20 shots, but a bad team required him to take 25 - that's what happens on bad teams..

Similarly, Pippen's efficiency was usually bad because he was undertaking a bigger role than he deserved (he frequently couldn't handle the 2nd option scoring role - see the 96-98' Playoffs or the 93' Finals and playoffs.. or 90' ECF... lots of good examples there)

[FKAri]

How can it not be organic when he's the GM? MJ was a 2-way player. Lebron's a 7 way player even if you exclude the 3 way he had with your mother and sister. Winning organically and orgasmically. LeGOAT.

[Hey Yo]

The Bulls were 3-Peat Champions with Jordan, Conference Semis losers when he retired, and 3-Peat Champions when he came back. It's funny no one mentions what happened to the Pippen-led Bulls in the 1994 playoffs. It's like 55 wins was the end of the story. GTFO

When he came back, MJ led the Bulls to less postseason wins than what Pippen did the year prior.

[3ba11]

When he came back, MJ led the Bulls to less postseason wins than what Pippen did the year prior.


But Jordan was elevating a near-lottery team and .500 ballclub in 1995, while Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat in 94' with a 3-peat cast

The 95' Bulls were a .500 ballclub until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

[Hey Yo]

But Jordan was elevating a near-lottery team and .500 ballclub in 1995, while Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat in 94' with a 3-peat cast

The 95' Bulls were a .500 ballclub until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

Bulls only needed 3 wins in their last 17gms in order to make the playoffs. They get those 3 wins w/o Mike easily.

6th round pick Pete Meyers was part of 3-peat?

[3ba11]

Bulls only needed 3 wins in their last 17gms in order to make the playoffs. They get those 3 wins w/o Mike easily.

6th round pick Pete Meyers was part of 3-peat?


Jordan got them to a 5 seed, so they had a beatable 1st Round opponent, while Pippen would've gotten a lower seed and faced Orlando, Indiana or the Knicks in the 1st Round.. And this assumes that the 34-31 Bulls don't falter down the stretch with Pandemic Pippen and miss the playoffs entirely (very likely).

You're forgetting that Pippen and the Bulls were exposed in the 1994 Playoffs - with the 3-peat luster gone, the bottom was falling out in the 95' season - things weren't trending upwards.. Btw, Kukoc led Pippen in BPM for the 94' Playoffs, while Pippen was 4th in WS/48 - so he failed as a 1st option, but MJ saved him and carried him to another 3-peat.

[Hey Yo]

94 Pippen won more playoff games than MJ did in 95

Straight facts.

[3ba11]

94 Pippen won more playoff games than MJ did in 95

Straight facts.


They were a .500 ballclub that Jordan carried to 13-4 and another 3-peat

And it must be nice to win games while teammates lead in BPM (kukoc) and WS/48 (Grant, Kukoc, BJ).. 94' Pippen was a role player in the playoffs as usual - not the top producer or closer

[Hey Yo]

They were a .500 ballclub that Jordan carried to 13-4 and another 3-peat

And it must be nice to win games while teammates lead in BPM (kukoc) and WS/48 (Grant, Kukoc, BJ).. 94' Pippen was a role player in the playoffs as usual - not the top producer or closer

Must be nice to win.... when you have a 7ppg teammate taking FMVP votes from you.

[3ba11]

Must be nice to win.... when you have a 7ppg teammate taking FMVP votes from you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sLAbHud8bQ

you're welcome

[Hey Yo]

7ppg teammate getting FMVP votes.... that's gotta hurt.

:lol

[3ba11]

7ppg teammate getting FMVP votes.... that's gotta hurt.

:lol


Who cares about getting a vote when Lebron let someone else WIN the award 6 times

[Hey Yo]

VoteS ... as in plural, chico.

A 7ppg teammate never got FMVP voteS away from LeBron.

[And1AllDay]

7ppg teammate getting FMVP votes.... that's gotta hurt.

:lol

bingo

imagine bran losing finals mvp votes to tristan thompson :oldlol: mikey mouse :roll:

[Axe]

You better include Curry in that list.
Who looks like a talented role player without his veteran all-star teammates.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Lebron doesn't know how to win, only team-hop (amass sufficient talent to win), so he's a talent-based winner and never learned how to win with chemistry.

He nearly figured it out in Cleveland but left a year early, so Dirk won with an aging group of veterans instead of Lebron.

Unfortunately, Lebron never evolved out of ball-dominant offenses that revolve around him, so he never learned to elevate teammates beyond spot-up roles.. This weaker strategy/brand of ball needs super-team talent and still mostly loses on the championship level..

Lebron's weaker brand of ball also turned the talent favorite (preseason favorite) to underdog or loser from 2010-2016, further confirming his inherently suboptimal style (frontcourt ball-dominance, 2 point guard lineups, low-assist teams).

[TheCorporation]

VoteS ... as in plural, chico.

A 7ppg teammate never got FMVP voteS away from LeBron.


bingo

imagine bran losing finals mvp votes to tristan thompson :oldlol: mikey mouse :roll:

:roll::roll:

[3ba11]

bingo

imagine bran losing finals mvp votes to tristan thompson :oldlol: mikey mouse :roll:


That would never happen because Lebron had a real sidekicks that would get votes before Tristan.

It's a knock on Pippen that a 7 ppg player got votes before him.

Ultimately, the Bulls are the only team that won more than 2 Finals without a supporting teammate getting FMVP or 25 ppg... Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg

[TheCorporation]

That would never happen because Lebron had a real sidekicks that would get votes before Tristan.

It's a knock on Pippen that a 7 ppg player got votes before him.

Ultimately, the Bulls are the only team that won more than 2 Finals without a supporting teammate getting FMVP or 25 ppg... Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg

So MJ had two Pippen's and still only made six Finals :eek:

#BustedAgain