Shaq in the modern era

[j3lademaster]

A friend and I were discussing what Shaq would look like in the modern era. This mostly came from Giannis comparisons we keep hearing from the media.

Let’s say we have a 20 year old Shaq in the 2018 draft. You have first pick. I think hindsight or not you HAVE to take this guy first, right?

Seems like a nobrainer at first, but then you delve into it. Shaq got shredded by the pick and rolls…from the 90s. PnR play is better, more advanced, and more prevalent than ever. Then the hack-a-Shaq. And I get the whole argument “oh if Shaq wasn’t the in the 90’s/early 2k’s, we wouldn’t even have the hackashaq”. Sure, but just humor me. But with the evolution of the 3 point shot, this fouling strategy is even more effective. Then you have teams who can run 5 shooters, forcing Shaq to have to close out on someone, limiting his inside presence.

So those are the cons, obviously the spacing works both ways. Offensively it can only help him. And besides Boban and maybe Embiid, we don’t really have anyone with the size of a Sabonis, big country or Yao who bothered him when he played. And Boban literally only has size, he doesn’t possess a tenth of the skill of the 3 I named.

So how do you implement Shaq in the modern era? Do you put a focus on developing his handles?

https://youtu.be/kVsWuHblBwU

Bonus question, let’s say you’re Shaq’s “uncle Dennis” and you get a say in his AAU development. How would you want him coached?

[TheMan]

A friend and I were discussing what Shaq would look like in the modern era. This mostly came from Giannis comparisons we keep hearing from the media.

Let’s say we have a 20 year old Shaq in the 2018 draft. You have first pick. I think hindsight or not you HAVE to take this guy first, right?

Seems like a nobrainer at first, but then you delve into it. Shaq got shredded by the pick and rolls…from the 90s. PnR play is better, more advanced, and more prevalent than ever. Then the hack-a-Shaq. And I get the whole argument “oh if Shaq wasn’t the in the 90’s/early 2k’s, we wouldn’t even have the hackashaq”. Sure, but just humor me. But with the evolution of the 3 point shot, this fouling strategy is even more effective. Then you have teams who can run 5 shooters, forcing Shaq to have to close out on someone, limiting his inside presence.

So those are the cons, obviously the spacing works both ways. Offensively it can only help him. And besides Boban and maybe Embiid, we don’t really have anyone with the size of a Sabonis, big country or Yao who bothered him when he played. And Boban literally only has size, he doesn’t possess a tenth of the skill of the 3 I named.

So how do you implement Shaq in the modern era? Do you put a focus on developing his handles?

https://youtu.be/kVsWuHblBwU

Bonus question, let’s say you’re Shaq’s “uncle Dennis” and you get a say in his AAU development. How would you want him coached?

Hell yeah you pick him first. I see your point on the defensive end with Shaq having to leave the paint to cover a big who can hit the three but on the offensive end Shaq was routinely abusing double and sometimes triple coverage down low in an era where PFs and Cs were physical, he would destroy anyone down low today. You surround him with three point shooters and it's either you let him get an automatic bucket one on one everytime or you double him and it's an open shot for a three point shooter. He would put tremendous pressure on the defense in the paint, dudes would foul out consistently.

[Bronbron23]

A friend and I were discussing what Shaq would look like in the modern era. This mostly came from Giannis comparisons we keep hearing from the media.

Let’s say we have a 20 year old Shaq in the 2018 draft. You have first pick. I think hindsight or not you HAVE to take this guy first, right?

Seems like a nobrainer at first, but then you delve into it. Shaq got shredded by the pick and rolls…from the 90s. PnR play is better, more advanced, and more prevalent than ever. Then the hack-a-Shaq. And I get the whole argument “oh if Shaq wasn’t the in the 90’s/early 2k’s, we wouldn’t even have the hackashaq”. Sure, but just humor me. But with the evolution of the 3 point shot, this fouling strategy is even more effective. Then you have teams who can run 5 shooters, forcing Shaq to have to close out on someone, limiting his inside presence.

So those are the cons, obviously the spacing works both ways. Offensively it can only help him. And besides Boban and maybe Embiid, we don’t really have anyone with the size of a Sabonis, big country or Yao who bothered him when he played. And Boban literally only has size, he doesn’t possess a tenth of the skill of the 3 I named.

So how do you implement Shaq in the modern era? Do you put a focus on developing his handles?

https://youtu.be/kVsWuHblBwU

Bonus question, let’s say you’re Shaq’s “uncle Dennis” and you get a say in his AAU development. How would you want him coached?

It would be interesting. Offensively he and his team would be unstoppable. You'd either have to double and triple him leaving guys open for easy shots or you'd have to gaurd him straight up and he would absolutely torch you. On the flil side he'd be bad at defending the pic and roll although i think his impact Offensively would make it something u could live with. Problem with alot of bigs now is they can't gaurd the pick and roll and they don't give u enough Offensively to make keeping them on the floor worth it.

[ClipperRevival]

A friend and I were discussing what Shaq would look like in the modern era. This mostly came from Giannis comparisons we keep hearing from the media.

Let’s say we have a 20 year old Shaq in the 2018 draft. You have first pick. I think hindsight or not you HAVE to take this guy first, right?

Seems like a nobrainer at first, but then you delve into it. Shaq got shredded by the pick and rolls…from the 90s. PnR play is better, more advanced, and more prevalent than ever. Then the hack-a-Shaq. And I get the whole argument “oh if Shaq wasn’t the in the 90’s/early 2k’s, we wouldn’t even have the hackashaq”. Sure, but just humor me. But with the evolution of the 3 point shot, this fouling strategy is even more effective. Then you have teams who can run 5 shooters, forcing Shaq to have to close out on someone, limiting his inside presence.

So those are the cons, obviously the spacing works both ways. Offensively it can only help him. And besides Boban and maybe Embiid, we don’t really have anyone with the size of a Sabonis, big country or Yao who bothered him when he played. And Boban literally only has size, he doesn’t possess a tenth of the skill of the 3 I named.

So how do you implement Shaq in the modern era? Do you put a focus on developing his handles?

https://youtu.be/kVsWuHblBwU

Bonus question, let’s say you’re Shaq’s “uncle Dennis” and you get a say in his AAU development. How would you want him coached?

Yes, take him 1st for sure.

Yes, his D in space would be an issue but an acceptable risk given how he would utterly dominate on the O end.

And like you said, maybe give him more freedom to handle the rock in space. The play you showed is probably like 2002-2003 Shaq when he was overweight and like 335lbs. Young Shaq was noticeably more athletic and lighter.. And maybe the more uptempo style of this era would keep him on the lighter side.

Imagine PJ Tucker or a Blake Griffin guarding him? LOL. Shaq used to abuse legit 7 fters.

[8Ball]

1st pick him over anybody in the last 30 years of picks except LeBron and Jordan.

I would think long and hard between Shaq and Luka though.

[RogueBorg]

If Ayton can go number 1 just a few years ago then there is no doubt Shaq would as well. There's a place for him in today's NBA.

[ClipperRevival]

1st pick him over anybody in the last 30 years of picks except LeBron and Jordan.

I would think long and hard between Shaq and Luka though.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1a6b48687a22ef14f40e7ab012e5a224/tenor.gif?itemid=13739141

[coastalmarker99]

Anyone GM that picks Luka over Shaq in a draft would be fired on the spot.



Shaq along with Wilt and Kareem plus Lebron were the most unmissable players ever and there was no chance that anyone was picking another player over them in the draft.

[rawimpact]

Shaq would revert the league back to bigman days...

3pters are better than 2pt fg statistically, but not if you got someone like shaq who would be like 90% in the paint.

Only issue he'd face is hack-a-shaq and D as mentioned in OP

[8Ball]

Anyone GM that picks Luka over Shaq in a draft would be fired on the spot.



Shaq along with Wilt and Kareem plus Lebron were the most unmissable players ever and there was no chance that anyone was picking another player over them in the draft.

I'm picking Shaq but I think Luka is a top 10 all time talent just like Shaq.

[j3lademaster]

Yes, take him 1st for sure.

Yes, his D in space would be an issue but an acceptable risk given how he would utterly dominate on the O end.

And like you said, maybe give him more freedom to handle the rock in space. The play you showed is probably like 2002-2003 Shaq when he was overweight and like 335lbs. Young Shaq was noticeably more athletic and lighter.. And maybe the more uptempo style of this era would keep him on the lighter side.

Imagine PJ Tucker or a Blake Griffin guarding him? LOL. Shaq used to abuse legit 7 fters.Oh for sure. The man physically bullied David Robinson who was built like a 7 foot captain America... as a rookie.

I like your take. How would you try to limit/cover up his flaws if you were the coach?

[coastalmarker99]

I'm picking Shaq but I think Luka is a top 10 all time talent just like Shaq.


Wilt and Lebron are the two most talented players of all time when you consider how skilled both players were at all areas of the game everything after those two through can be debated.

[L.Kizzle]

Are y'all forgetting what a young Orlando Shaq was capable of?
That Orlando squad was built for the modern era.

Three wings between 6'6 and 6'8 who could all shoot and a PF who can defend in the paint and go outside for an 18 footer. Oh yeah and a young agile Shaq who can run the floor and break backboards.

[FKAri]

He'd have to work even harder to stay in shape. He'd get exhausted and injured in no time if he kept his Lakers size. If he keeps his Orlando shape, he'd dominate. He'd be much worse defensively in this era but even better offensively. But again, his work ethic matters a lot more in this era.

[j3lademaster]

Are y'all forgetting what a young Orlando Shaq was capable of?
That Orlando squad was built for the modern era.

Three wings between 6'6 and 6'8 who could all shoot and a PF who can defend in the paint and go outside for an 18 footer. Oh yeah and a young agile Shaq who can run the floor and break backboards.Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott were ahead of their time. Anderson was a good defender too until the free throw chokes gave him the yips.

Shaq's Lakers were kinda built like that too. Robert Horry was about as good as you get as far as stretch 4 roleplayers went in that era.

[8Ball]

Wilt and Lebron are the two most talented players of all time when you consider how skilled both players were at all areas of the game everything after those two through can be debated.

Wilt / LeBron / Kareem were the most automatic 1st picks ever.

I truly believe Luka is the next GOAT. The guy has 2 1st team all-nbas in his first 3 seasons.

[paksat]

I love how 18 year olds act like everyone in the nba is ray allen with their 3 point shooting

literally that's all people practice now and the difference between now and some point in the mid 90's is a whole 3 percent. 34 percent vs 37 percent on average across the nba in comparison. With almost no one practicing the shot with regularity in the 90's they're behind a grand total of 3 mofo'n percent.

[Code Breaker]

Barbecue chicken alert :pimp:

[Phoenix]

Orlando Shaq would be a better fit for today's game than slower, heavier, lumbering Lakers Shaq, though that's considered his peak. Orlando Shaq would be outlawed in today's game.

[j3lademaster]

I love how 18 year olds act like everyone in the nba is ray allen with their 3 point shooting

literally that's all people practice now and the difference between now and some point in the mid 90's is a whole 3 percent. 34 percent vs 37 percent on average across the nba in comparison. With almost no one practicing the shot with regularity in the 90's they're behind a grand total of 3 mofo'n percent.Context matters. Teams are shooting almost 3x the amount of 3's... with an IMPROVEMENT in percentage. That's big gap.

And no, not everyone's Ray Allen. He was special, if everyone were like him league avg would be 41-44%. And I've said this before, I believe teams in the 90s looked for the best basketball players to fill their rosters, while nowadays teams specifically shop for the roleplayers who just shoot 3's and play defense.

Players right now are better long range shooters and the pick and roll is more advanced and prevalent. Points per possession are up because of the 3 point shooting as well, and the higher that goes the more it makes it worth it mathematically to intentionally foul poor free throw shooters.

And yes, I realize the 90's did others things better than players today. I'm simply pointing out the bigger changes that would exploit some of Shaq's weaknesses and asking how people would try to minimize them from a coaching perspective... if at all. If there would be slight tweaks to Shaq's offensive game to limit foul trouble more.

[basketballcat]

I love how 18 year olds act like everyone in the nba is ray allen with their 3 point shooting

literally that's all people practice now and the difference between now and some point in the mid 90's is a whole 3 percent. 34 percent vs 37 percent on average across the nba in comparison. With almost no one practicing the shot with regularity in the 90's they're behind a grand total of 3 mofo'n percent.

The pt % on Shaq's MVP year was 35.3% on 13.7 attempts. Over the last 10 years, the league's 3 pt % has been below that low only twice. Both times were > 5 years ago. This year's 3 pt attempts was 34.6 (i.e. almost 3x that in Shaq's prime). As already pointed out, the game has changed.

A more controlled measure of the league's shooting ability would be free throws. It was 75.0 % in Shaq's prime. It has never been below that in the last 15 years. We definitely have better shooters in today's game.

Finally, let's look more into the detail of the average. Let's use the 35.3% average in 99-00 as the cutoff. On Shaq's prime, there were 68 players who could shoot at this % or better. This year, it is 118. There are almost twice as many 3 point threats in today's game than in Shaq's prime. The averages being close might be because: more so-so shooters chuck 3s these days due to analytics, people who shoot threes in the past tend to be 3point specialists. Somebody needs to dig into the data to find out, as I don't have time.

Takeaway: the change in 3 point shooting between Shaq's prime and today is not negligible

[StrongLurk]

Shaq stays Orlando Magic sized his whole career for sure.

[8Ball]

I love how 18 year olds act like everyone in the nba is ray allen with their 3 point shooting

literally that's all people practice now and the difference between now and some point in the mid 90's is a whole 3 percent. 34 percent vs 37 percent on average across the nba in comparison. With almost no one practicing the shot with regularity in the 90's they're behind a grand total of 3 mofo'n percent.

Volume. 3 point shots were only shot when completely wide open in the 90s.

Teams are shooting 30-40 3s a game now. In the 90s they shot 10 3s a game.

[ClipperRevival]

Oh for sure. The man physically bullied David Robinson who was built like a 7 foot captain America... as a rookie.

I like your take. How would you try to limit/cover up his flaws if you were the coach?

I think we all know that once you're on the floor, you can be isolated. So Shaq can't hide.

So I would focus on what he can do to be most effective and that is obviously try to stay as light as possible. If heavy Laker Shaq played today, he would get exposed defensively. He was out of shape. 290-300 lbs Orlando Shaq could move well enough to really do a solid job defensively, possibly even excel at times. People forget how athletic Orlando Shaq was.

But there is also the flip side. You wanna go small against us? OK, Shaq will destroy you so badly on the other end, you might have to adjust and go big.

[paksat]

Volume. 3 point shots were only shot when completely wide open in the 90s.

Teams are shooting 30-40 3s a game now. In the 90s they shot 10 3s a game.

3ball as much as you hate him has repeatedly pointed out just how many shots are considered wide open in this era

[basketballcat]

Oh for sure. The man physically bullied David Robinson who was built like a 7 foot captain America... as a rookie.
On Shaq's rookie year, he played two games against Robinson. Robinson won both games with higher points than Shaq on each of the two games. In fact, Shaq lost his first 5 games against Robinson. His first win against Robinson was on his 3rd year. Of the games before Robinson's injury in 97, Robinson won 5 out of 7 games and outscored Shaq in 6 out of 7.

[j3lademaster]

On Shaq's rookie year, he played two games against Robinson. Robinson won both games with higher points than Shaq on each of the two games. In fact, Shaq lost his first 5 games against Robinson. His first win against Robinson was on his 3rd year. Of the games before Robinson's injury in 97, Robinson won 5 out of 7 games and outscored Shaq in 6 out of 7.Robinson was the better player at the time, but Shaq was already able to physically bully him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKL4nECl2Mk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKL4nECl2Mk

[basketballcat]

Robinson was the better player at the time, but Shaq was already able to physically bully him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKL4nECl2Mk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKL4nECl2Mk

Shaq fell down on that first clip, with Robinson blocking. Two of the instances where Shaq "bullied" Robinson were offensive fouls. Not gonna split hairs on who was stronger, but Robinson was the superior player before his injury.

[FireDavidKahn]

Shaq in today's league on offense would be like Zion on steroids.

[Dbrog]

Oh for sure. The man physically bullied David Robinson who was built like a 7 foot captain America... as a rookie.

I like your take. How would you try to limit/cover up his flaws if you were the coach?

To me the coaching job would still be easy. Just to a 3-2 zone or maybe even put 4 on the perimeter. He wouldn't even have to step out of the box if the other big went to pick and roll...at least yet. If we get to a point, which we could, where you have a bunch of bigs doing KD things (quick fadeaway or stepback 3s) on the perimeter, my plan would fail miserably. But until that happens, let the other team try to beat you with midrange jumpers or highly contested 3s. I guarantee Shaq's percentages will outpace em

[tpols]

I love how 18 year olds act like everyone in the nba is ray allen with their 3 point shooting

literally that's all people practice now and the difference between now and some point in the mid 90's is a whole 3 percent. 34 percent vs 37 percent on average across the nba in comparison. With almost no one practicing the shot with regularity in the 90's they're behind a grand total of 3 mofo'n percent.

Its the volume and range. Poor shooters like even Giannis take more 3s than snipers from 20 years ago. Nobody took shots like Dame or Curry. Shaq would have to deal with guards iso mismatching him off the PnR and he'd be dragged 30 feet from the hoop. Imagine what Curry would do? Dingo mode smh.

[bladefd]

Yes, take him 1st for sure.

Yes, his D in space would be an issue but an acceptable risk given how he would utterly dominate on the O end.

And like you said, maybe give him more freedom to handle the rock in space. The play you showed is probably like 2002-2003 Shaq when he was overweight and like 335lbs. Young Shaq was noticeably more athletic and lighter.. And maybe the more uptempo style of this era would keep him on the lighter side.

Imagine PJ Tucker or a Blake Griffin guarding him? LOL. Shaq used to abuse legit 7 fters.

I think Shaq would be a MONSTER and could average 40pts and 15rbs in modern nba in some seasons. He would also give up a lot of points though because his opponent big men would be able to take Shaq out to the perimeter, where Shaq would get destroyed. But I guess you have to take the post domination good with the bad as long as you surround him with very good shooters and an elite playmaker.

[paksat]

Its the volume and range. Poor shooters like even Giannis take more 3s than snipers from 20 years ago. Nobody took shots like Dame or Curry. Shaq would have to deal with guards iso mismatching him off the PnR and he'd be dragged 30 feet from the hoop. Imagine what Curry would do? Dingo mode smh.

curry would fall flat on his face like he does every year without klay or kd

look shaq would average something absolutely insane like 42 ppg and 17 boards with 3 or 4 blocks along with probably 5 assists. So unless curry is gonna go crazy every single game, he's still not gonna match what shaq is gonna do. We're talking about someone who shot 58% from the field with multiple 7 footers double teaming him at times, there's NO one that is gonna guard him the league right now. Embid is the closest one ( one guy ) and shaq out weighs him by 40 lbs at least. Anthony davis is an absolute midget to shaq at 6'10'ish 253.

[iamgine]

Defensively, He'll be PnRs to death. They will also hunt him to get him in foul trouble.

Offensively, they'll hack him to death.

So, I don't think he'll be nearly as effective. Although his numbers would look good.

[Spain_]

A friend and I were discussing what Shaq would look like in the modern era. This mostly came from Giannis comparisons we keep hearing from the media.

Let’s say we have a 20 year old Shaq in the 2018 draft. You have first pick. I think hindsight or not you HAVE to take this guy first, right?

Seems like a nobrainer at first, but then you delve into it. Shaq got shredded by the pick and rolls…from the 90s. PnR play is better, more advanced, and more prevalent than ever. Then the hack-a-Shaq. And I get the whole argument “oh if Shaq wasn’t the in the 90’s/early 2k’s, we wouldn’t even have the hackashaq”. Sure, but just humor me. But with the evolution of the 3 point shot, this fouling strategy is even more effective. Then you have teams who can run 5 shooters, forcing Shaq to have to close out on someone, limiting his inside presence.

So those are the cons, obviously the spacing works both ways. Offensively it can only help him. And besides Boban and maybe Embiid, we don’t really have anyone with the size of a Sabonis, big country or Yao who bothered him when he played. And Boban literally only has size, he doesn’t possess a tenth of the skill of the 3 I named.

So how do you implement Shaq in the modern era? Do you put a focus on developing his handles?

https://youtu.be/kVsWuHblBwU

Bonus question, let’s say you’re Shaq’s “uncle Dennis” and you get a say in his AAU development. How would you want him coached?

Teams would try to exploit him on D with stretch big, pick n rolls etc.
He would probably have to be lighter in today's game, like he was in the very early orlando days.
He would still be top 10 player in the league but I dont think he would be the overwhelming force he was in the 2000s, there is just too much counterplay option for attacking heavy bigs on D.

[r0drig0lac]

Giannis is the modern D-Rob

[j3lademaster]

Giannis is the modern D-Rob
Funny, when I said “have we seen anything like this guy before?” Referring to Giannis, my dad told me David Robinson if he grew up in the AAU era and handled the rock more.
https://youtu.be/f1i8K-u0yFo