The idea that Shaq played on loaded teams for his entire career is dumb

[coastalmarker99]

How loaded were Shaq's teams? Look at how his teams fared without him...The 96' Magic managed to stay afloat when he was out but that was the exception and took an MVP-caliber campaign by Penny (he was 3rd in MVP voting that year--ahead of Hakeem and Pippen). In 97' they replaced Shaq with a 17/10 center and fell to 45-37 and were bounced in the first round, despite an epic series from Penny.

The 2000-2002 Lakers were 13-12 with Kobe, without Shaq. How did they do with Shaq, without Kobe? 25-6.

How about Miami without Shaq?

2005: 6-3 2006: 10-13 2007: 19-23

In 2007 Wade missed considerable time. How did Miami do with Shaq, without Wade? 16-8. How about Miami with Wade, without Shaq? 18-17.

You can do this over and over again for Shaq. The fact is his teams were average without him. Even when his superstar wings were out Shaq kept the team performing at an elite level; when he was out both Kobe and Wade failed to do the same. Penny was not able to do it in 97'.

Also, Shaq's longevity is so underrated on this site and many others.

Starting during his rookie year until 2004-05, Shaq put up the following stats:

23/14/2/1/4 on 56%

29/13/2/1/3 on 60%

29/11/3/1/2 on 58%

27/11/3/1/2 on 57%

26/13/3/1/3 on 56%

28/11/2/1/2 on 58%

26/11/2/1/2 on 58%

30/14/4/1/3 on 57%

29/13/4/1/3 on 57%

27/11/3/1/2 on 58%

28/11/3/1/2 on 57%

22/12/3/1/3 on 58%

23/10/3/1/2 on 60%

And in 2005-06, he put up 20/9/2/0/2 on 60% in only about 31 MPG.

Shaq is diminished by many due to allegedly poor longevity (the guy was still good in 2007--17/7 on 59% in 28 mpg, had a down year in 2008 but had a renaissance in 2009 with an 18/8 season) and because he played with Penny, Kobe, and Wade. However, where were Penny, Kobe, and Wade without Shaq in the middle? Kobe and Wade struggled to reach 0.500 without Shaq.

Penny managed without Shaq for a period in 96'--but the team collapsed when they lost Shaq permanently in 97', despite getting a 17/10 player to replace him (kind of like the Heat getting Deng for LeBron).

[coastalmarker99]

Looking at stats such as this alongside the finals Mvps and finals stats from 2000 to 2002 you can see why Kobe does not get full credit for all of his rings outside of 2009 and 2010.



As much as Pippen was a sidekick to Jordan


Kobe also was that to Shaq.

[coastalmarker99]

The games that Shaq and Kobe missed from 1998-2004 showed which guy was more important to the success of the team. The Lakers were mediocre without Shaq, but in the games Kobe missed, they didn’t miss a beat.


Games Kobe missed and Shaq played in, 98-04:

28-6 (.824, 68 win pace)
5.90 SRS


Games Shaq missed and Kobe played in, 98-04:
33-31 (.516, 42 win pace)
0.58 SRS

01-04 plus/minus stats:
Shaq/Kobe on court: +9.2 points per 100 possessions
Shaq, no Kobe: +5.2 per 100
Kobe, no Shaq: -2.9 per 100
No Shaq or Kobe: -7.3 per 100

Playoffs:
Shaq/Kobe on court: +7.9 per 100
Shaq, no Kobe: -3.7 per 100
Kobe, no Shaq: -13.4 per 100
No Shaq or Kobe: -10 per 100

[coastalmarker99]

Also, from 93-06, Shaq’s teams were a weighted 5.81 SRS in the games he played, and a 1.22 SRS in the games he missed for a total impact of 4.60 SRS. His teams were 97-78 (.554) in the games he missed.

His teams played 45.5 win pace in the games he missed and a 59.8 win pace in the games he played (+14.4 win impact).

[tpols]

He team hopped from Penny to Kobe to Wade to Nash to Lebron. Nobody has ever team hopped with more superstars than Shaq.

[RogueBorg]

How loaded were Shaq's teams? Look at how his teams fared without him...The 96' Magic managed to stay afloat when he was out but that was the exception and took an MVP-caliber campaign by Penny (he was 3rd in MVP voting that year--ahead of Hakeem and Pippen). In 97' they replaced Shaq with a 17/10 center and fell to 45-37 and were bounced in the first round, despite an epic series from Penny.

The 2000-2002 Lakers were 13-12 with Kobe, without Shaq. How did they do with Shaq, without Kobe? 25-6.

How about Miami without Shaq?

2005: 6-3 2006: 10-13 2007: 19-23

In 2007 Wade missed considerable time. How did Miami do with Shaq, without Wade? 16-8. How about Miami with Wade, without Shaq? 18-17.

You can do this over and over again for Shaq. The fact is his teams were average without him. Even when his superstar wings were out Shaq kept the team performing at an elite level; when he was out both Kobe and Wade failed to do the same. Penny was not able to do it in 97'.

Also, Shaq's longevity is so underrated on this site and many others.

Starting during his rookie year until 2004-05, Shaq put up the following stats:

23/14/2/1/4 on 56%

29/13/2/1/3 on 60%

29/11/3/1/2 on 58%

27/11/3/1/2 on 57%

26/13/3/1/3 on 56%

28/11/2/1/2 on 58%

26/11/2/1/2 on 58%

30/14/4/1/3 on 57%

29/13/4/1/3 on 57%

27/11/3/1/2 on 58%

28/11/3/1/2 on 57%

22/12/3/1/3 on 58%

23/10/3/1/2 on 60%

And in 2005-06, he put up 20/9/2/0/2 on 60% in only about 31 MPG.

Shaq is diminished by many due to allegedly poor longevity (the guy was still good in 2007--17/7 on 59% in 28 mpg, had a down year in 2008 but had a renaissance in 2009 with an 18/8 season) and because he played with Penny, Kobe, and Wade. However, where were Penny, Kobe, and Wade without Shaq in the middle? Kobe and Wade struggled to reach 0.500 without Shaq.

Penny managed without Shaq for a period in 96'--but the team collapsed when they lost Shaq permanently in 97', despite getting a 17/10 player to replace him (kind of like the Heat getting Deng for LeBron).

I think most people forget how good Shaq was from his rookie year in 1992-1998. They think his career started when he started winning rings.

[coastalmarker99]

I think most people forget how good Shaq was from his rookie year in 1992-1998. They think his career started when he started winning rings.

Yep, it is a shame that people think that about him as he was the only player in the 1990s besides Isiah and the Bad Boys that knocked MJ's Bulls out in the playoffs.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Look at the playoffs though:

He has 0 finals wins without Kobe.

Kobe has 2 rings without shaq, replaced him with pau gasol and was 2 wins away from the same results but played super team Celtics instead of those shit 1 man nets teams.

You also have to believe that giannis would have like 7 rings if he had a teammate as good as Kobe.

[Carbine]

Looking at stats such as this alongside the finals Mvps and finals stats from 2000 to 2002 you can see why Kobe does not get full credit for all of his rings outside of 2009 and 2010.



As much as Pippen was a sidekick to Jordan


Kobe also was that to Shaq.

This is such an inept post. Take out 2000 because Kobe was clearly a sidekick in that run.

But the other two? Kobe was the best player in each run up until the finals in both years I would say. It was at least an equal partnership. Pippen was NEVER an equal partner to MJ. Never.

[Nashty]

He threepeated with Derek Fisher and a bunch of scrubs.

[StrongLurk]

Look at the playoffs though:

He has 0 finals wins without Kobe.

Kobe has 2 rings without shaq, replaced him with pau gasol and was 2 wins away from the same results but played super team Celtics instead of those shit 1 man nets teams.

You also have to believe that giannis would have like 7 rings if he had a teammate as good as Kobe.

Shaq won a finals with Wade so you are wrong.

[Shooter]

I think most people forget how good Shaq was from his rookie year in 1992-1998. They think his career started when he started winning rings.

Literally no one thinks that except for retards like you :lol

Shaq clapped MJ's cheeks in 1995 and made the Finals.

[basketballcat]

Of everybody in the consensus top 10 all time, only Shaq & Kobe played with a fellow top 10. Stacked as stacked can be.

[lakerstekkenn]

How loaded were Shaq's teams? Look at how his teams fared without him...The 96' Magic managed to stay afloat when he was out but that was the exception and took an MVP-caliber campaign by Penny (he was 3rd in MVP voting that year--ahead of Hakeem and Pippen). In 97' they replaced Shaq with a 17/10 center and fell to 45-37 and were bounced in the first round, despite an epic series from Penny.

The 2000-2002 Lakers were 13-12 with Kobe, without Shaq. How did they do with Shaq, without Kobe? 25-6.

How about Miami without Shaq?

2005: 6-3 2006: 10-13 2007: 19-23

In 2007 Wade missed considerable time. How did Miami do with Shaq, without Wade? 16-8. How about Miami with Wade, without Shaq? 18-17.

You can do this over and over again for Shaq. The fact is his teams were average without him. Even when his superstar wings were out Shaq kept the team performing at an elite level; when he was out both Kobe and Wade failed to do the same. Penny was not able to do it in 97'.

Also, Shaq's longevity is so underrated on this site and many others.

Starting during his rookie year until 2004-05, Shaq put up the following stats:

23/14/2/1/4 on 56%

29/13/2/1/3 on 60%

29/11/3/1/2 on 58%

27/11/3/1/2 on 57%

26/13/3/1/3 on 56%

28/11/2/1/2 on 58%

26/11/2/1/2 on 58%

30/14/4/1/3 on 57%

29/13/4/1/3 on 57%

27/11/3/1/2 on 58%

28/11/3/1/2 on 57%

22/12/3/1/3 on 58%

23/10/3/1/2 on 60%

And in 2005-06, he put up 20/9/2/0/2 on 60% in only about 31 MPG.

Shaq is diminished by many due to allegedly poor longevity (the guy was still good in 2007--17/7 on 59% in 28 mpg, had a down year in 2008 but had a renaissance in 2009 with an 18/8 season) and because he played with Penny, Kobe, and Wade. However, where were Penny, Kobe, and Wade without Shaq in the middle? Kobe and Wade struggled to reach 0.500 without Shaq.

Penny managed without Shaq for a period in 96'--but the team collapsed when they lost Shaq permanently in 97', despite getting a 17/10 player to replace him (kind of like the Heat getting Deng for LeBron).



All super star players have teammates roll players that complement their games, super star players have a equal or nearly equal offensively and defensively second super star player or all star player, they both take so much cap space their teammates are either ex roll player veterans previously on championship teams that got broke up or ex playoff or finals veterans or past prime all stat players, these veterans fill in the spots and can have burst of greatness or burst of good games but basically they average 10 points but at times can give you 20 points in certain games.

This is what happened with Shaq the Lakers drafted young Kobe on visual talent and the will to compete until he wins, hoping eventually Kobe would be equal to Shaq or his number two, averaging 30 points while Shaq being unstoppable gives you 40 points a night, then the Lakers under Phil called old veterans with rings or championship experience playoff experience plus their bench that already had playoff experience but continually got swept or eliminated, these experienced veterans played great at times when Shaq or Kobe struggled, without Kobe and Shaq this team of veterans cant beat top teams and will struggle.

Every championship team with two super star players have either veterans or roll players that can hit two or three shots a game sometimes they get hot but they are only asked to play defense and give their team 10 points a game, every championship team is built like this unless they only have 1 single super star player but with an all star player that's not consistent but other roll players carry at times, like The 76ers with Embid, notice he's struggling to even get to the finals but he's giving his team 30 points a game, give him Kobe and Embid goes to the finals.

LaBron James & Anthony Davis is another dual super star teammates with roll players that wouldn't make the playoffs, period.


Every championship team is built this way, so your post doesn't make sense.

[lakerstekkenn]

People forget one Shaq and Kobe's veterans started to retire and they got normal roll players who weren't championship veterans they started to lose badly they even trade Horry to the Spurs then the Spurs started winning rings again it only sometimes takes another championship veteran that will take you over the top, while your nemesis starts losing their championship veterans.

Phil and the Lakers tried to bring in two ex super star players but injuries played a roll plus the lack of championship veterans they lost.

[basketballcat]

Let's look at MVP voting during the Lakers three-peat.
1999-2000: Shaq at 1st, Kobe at 12th
2000-2001: Shaq at 3rd, Kobe at 9th
2001-2002: Kobe at 3rd, Shaq at 5th
No other team came remotely close to having this luxury during this period. They had the best 1-2 in the league and all time.

On the 2005-2006 season, Wade came in 6th in MVP voting. On his 1994-1995 finals appearance, Shaq was #2 in the MVP voting while Hardaway was 10th. Again, no other team had this luxury. They had the best duo. Shaq always had a sidekick who is 12th best (at worst) in the league on his best years. Shaq always had the best duo in the league on his best years.

[SouBeachTalents]

Of everybody in the consensus top 10 all time, only Shaq & Kobe played with a fellow top 10. Stacked as stacked can be.
Yep, no other top 10 players ever played together, esp not on the Lakers

[ImKobe]

Yep, no other top 10 players ever played together, esp not on the Lakers

:lol

[iamgine]

I think the way to think about this is if every team is minus their best player, where would Shaq's team ranked?

[Soundwave]

Penny was already starting to suffer from injuries by 96-97 season, I remember watching some older pre-season games from him in 96 in Japan and Penny admitted he couldn't really dunk the ball at that time because he couldn't get the proper lift.

The Magic when Penny was healthy were stacked for sure, the only team in the current NBA that would be able to beat them would maybe be a healthy Nets squad and even that I'm not sure about.

[SouBeachTalents]

Penny was already starting to suffer from injuries by 96-97 season, I remember watching some older pre-season games from him in 96 in Japan and Penny admitted he couldn't really dunk the ball at that time because he couldn't get the proper lift.

The Magic when Penny was healthy were stacked for sure, the only team in the current NBA that would be able to beat them would maybe be a healthy Nets squad and even that I'm not sure about.
Please, acting like the Magic are a tier above the Nets or Clippers is ridiculous. They got swept by a Houston team that was worse than either of them

[lakerstekkenn]

Please, acting like the Magic are a tier above the Nets or Clippers is ridiculous. They got swept by a Houston team that was worse than either of them

Hakeem would've destroyed the Clippers and Nets on the inside he was schooling prime Shaq, so the Clippers or the Nets against Huston would be a great series I have Huston over the Clippers but against the Nets it comes down to point guards and roll players.

[ImKobe]

I think the way to think about this is if every team is minus their best player, where would Shaq's team ranked?

He had a bunch of great ones. The Magic, Lakers, Heat, Suns, Cavs & Celtics were all Playoff teams without him. He played with another star(in their peak/prime, mind you) almost his entire career.

I don't think any other ATG has team-hopped as much as Shaq did. He played with prime Penny, Wade, Kobe, Nash/Amare & Lebron.