Scottie Pippen is an angry delusional sidekick

[HALLandOATES]

-Calling Phil a racist for drawing up a play for Kukoc over him

-Twisting a million ways of how much of a p.o.s Michael is

-The Durant/Ben Simmons jiberish

What’s next? Or who’s next

Im sure its all in his new book

I’ve never seen a sidekick think so much of himself , he thinks hes a top ever talent.. top 35-40 maybe accounting for today’s players .

A guy worse than Paul George(I love Paul george btw, hes shown he can lead a team on his own now to me this season) coming out and talking like he was the alpha of the league because he had one good season,not GREAT ...just good (idc about the 3rd place mvp ,22/8/6 isn’t an mvp level player)

Pippen might of had the better career but Paul George is leaps and bounds better.. hell if the clippers win this year and Paul continues to play like he is I’d put Paul careers wise just about where pip is (top 50)

Just boggles my mind a guy so offensively limited and stayed in his lane all these years for the most part is coming out so hot and demanding all the respect all because of the Jordan doc ...

Did he think we bball fans all didn’t already know about what they showed on there?

We all knew,I guess the doc blowing up and the newer generation and general public watching and finding out in present day sent him in a talespin

[ImKobe]

He's desperate for money and is obviously still jealous of MJ and Pjax because they got all the credit for those championships. You could argue that MJ was wrong for dissing Pippen in his documentary, but it's not like he made anything up. Pippen flat out quit on his team in the '94 ECSF and he flat out quit on his team again leading up to the '98 season.

Pippen wanted to be treated like a superstar and he wanted to make superstar money, but he never played like one, he had more than a few opportunities to shine as the lead dog and he came up short, he couldn't score when his team needed him to, and Phil knew that. You have to be a mediocre scorer to put up the scoring numbers with the efficiency that Scottie did in the most of those Playoff series.

The one thing he did get right was calling out Phil for shitting on Kobe after their 3-Peat, that was uncalled for.

[Bawkish]

Honestly feel bad for the guy who lost his son months ago then get cheated by his wife

dude's mindset is in shambles now

[RogueBorg]

I’ve never seen a sidekick think so much of himself , he thinks hes a top ever talent.. top 35-40 maybe accounting for today’s players .



Pipp is probably on ISH, there's legit posters and all their alts making posts everyday claiming he was better than Jordan. He's not the brightest guy around, after reading that for years he now believes it.

[RogueBorg]

You could argue that MJ was wrong for dissing Pippen in his documentary

Did he though? Jordan said this of Pippen in the 1st episode of the documentary.

"Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen," Jordan said in the documentary. "Everybody says I won all these championships. But I didn't win without Scottie Pippen. That's why I consider him my greatest teammate of all-time."Apr 20, 2020

[jayfan]

Honestly feel bad for the guy who lost his son months ago then get cheated by his wife

dude's mindset is in shambles now

I feel bad, too. Losing a child is beyond comprehension.

But to be clear, this has always been Pippen's mindset.


.

[8Ball]

Jordan twisted a knife into Pippen in Jordan's documentary. Why bring up what happened in 1994 and the out of bounds play when Jordan wasn't even playing basketball?


Scottie Pippen rightfully twisting the knife right back. :applause:

[3ba11]

Show me an instance where Pippen played at a top 50 all-time level - he never played anywhere near top 50, but people conflate resume with performance - Pippen's 6 rings inflates his resume because people give him credit for rings like he's a 1st option for some reason.. They don't do it with anyone else, only Pippen, even though he was the biggest 2nd option ever (low stats and the biggest gap between 1st and 2nd option ever)

[SATAN]

Pippen doesn't seem very smart but he was a really good player. An all time great.

[LAL]

Show me an instance where Pippen played at a top 50 all-time level - he never played anywhere near top 50, but people conflate resume with performance - Pippen's 6 rings inflates his resume because people give him credit for rings like he's a 1st option for some reason.. They don't do it with anyone else, only Pippen, even though he was the biggest 2nd option ever (low stats and the biggest gap between 1st and 2nd option ever)

He had a career high 47 during a rs game against the 97 nuggets

[LAL]

Pippen doesn't seem very smart but he was a really good player. An all time great.

Pippen is so important for you guys right now in your fight against MJ.

Think about his health for a minute you jerks.

[000]

He had a career high 47 during a rs game against the 97 nuggets
Wow, just 5 points shy of mo williams career high. Hey, wasnt mo williams total garbage? Thats what the basketball experts told me.

[3ba11]

Pippen doesn't seem very smart but he was a really good player. An all time great.


Ben Simmons...... 16/8/8... 19.8 PER... 0.156 WS/48... 3.7 BPM
Scottie Pippen..... 16/6/5... 18.6 PER... 0.146 WS/48... 4.1 BPM


If Pippen is an all-time great than so is Ben Simmons

But people think 6 rings make Pippen great, not his actual performance, which was worse than Ben Simmons.. Jordan carried a player that was worse than Ben Simmons to 6 chips

[97 bulls]

Ben Simmons...... 16/8/8... 19.8 PER... 0.156 WS/48... 3.7 BPM
Scottie Pippen..... 16/6/5... 18.6 PER... 0.146 WS/48... 4.1 BPM


If Pippen is an all-time great than so is Ben Simmons

But people think 6 rings make Pippen great, not his actual performance, which was worse than Ben Simmons.. Jordan carried a player that was worse than Ben Simmons to 6 chips

Bradley Beal averged 31/5/5 on 49%. That's Michael Jordan type numbers. Are you willing to say Bradley Beal is as good an offensive player as MJ?

[3ba11]

Bradley Beal averged 31/5/5 on 49%. That's Michael Jordan type numbers. Are you willing to say Bradley Beal is as good an offensive player as MJ?


That's Beal's peak, which doesn't compare to MJ's peak

you have to compare apples to apples.

[ELITEpower23]

Jordan twisted a knife into Pippen in Jordan's documentary. Why bring up what happened in 1994 and the out of bounds play when Jordan wasn't even playing basketball?


Scottie Pippen rightfully twisting the knife right back. :applause:

This is it

[97 bulls]

That's Beal's peak, which doesn't compare to MJ's peak

you have to compare apples to apples.

You dont know that. Can you see the future? Beal is only 27. And hes sharing the ball with a chucker in Russell Westbrook.

The fact is Beals numbers are very similar to Jordan's. So by your assessment. Beal is as good as Jordan. Right?

[TheMan]

You dont know that. Can you see the future? Beal is only 27. And hes sharing the ball with a chucker in Russell Westbrook.

The fact is Beals numbers are very similar to Jordan's. So by your assessment. Beal is as good as Jordan. Right?
Those numbers are a reflection of this soft ass offensive friendly era

[3ba11]

This is it


Jordan was thrilled to be winning - that's all that mattered - he never wondered "why did I have to average 41 ppg for us to win??"

And he never looked at the boxscore to track how Pippen was playing... As long as they won, it was all good..

But despite not tracking Pippen's stats like we're doing now itt, Jordan still knew on some level that Pippen wasn't up to par - so he included the things he could SEE in the doc - like the chokes in the 94' Playoffs or the migraine, or the postponement of surgery in 98'... So he included those things in the documentary - and that's much classier than spamming the documentary with the stats of Pippen's weak production, which he wasn't fully aware of anyway.

[97 bulls]

Those numbers are a reflection of this soft ass offensive friendly era

I agree. But I telling 3ball to stop comparing stats across eras. His logic is way off. 30ppg today isnt the same as 30ppg in the 90s. It's called inflation. Really any stat for that matter.

But why dont you have a problem with his statistical comparison between Simmons and Pippen?

[And1AllDay]

97 bulls keeps it real, big props G :cheers:

he is the only mj fan that makes me like mike more and respect him more

3baLLLL only makes his legacy worse

[97 bulls]

Jordan was thrilled to be winning - that's all that mattered - he never wondered "why did I have to average 41 ppg for us to win??"

And he never looked at the boxscore to track how Pippen was playing... As long as they won, it was all good..

But despite not tracking Pippen's stats like we're doing now itt, Jordan still knew on some level that Pippen wasn't up to par - so he included the things he could SEE in the doc - like the chokes in the 94' Playoffs or the migraine, or the postponement of surgery in 98'... So he included those things in the documentary - and that's much classier than spamming the documentary with the stats of Pippen's weak production, which he wasn't fully aware of anyway.

I'll say this in all fairness. I heard Cowherd talk about how Pippen wanted to be the man until he saw all that it entailed. Which was the off the court stuff like taking hard questions. He said Pippen routinely stayed away from media. That's one aspect I agree with MJ on.

Saying that, Jordan still threw Pippen under the bus.

[97 bulls]

97 bulls keeps it real, big props G :cheers:

he is the only mj fan that makes me like mike more and respect him more

3baLLLL only makes his legacy worse

Thanks bro. I'm a Bulls fan. And I try to call it like I see it and fairly. Jordan is my favorite player. I defend Pippen the way I do because I appreciate his role on the Bulls during the 90s. But trolls have to be dealt with.

3ball wont have a fair and balanced conversation because hes a troll.

[WhiteKyrie]

He's desperate for money and is obviously still jealous of MJ and Pjax because they got all the credit for those championships. You could argue that MJ was wrong for dissing Pippen in his documentary, but it's not like he made anything up. Pippen flat out quit on his team in the '94 ECSF and he flat out quit on his team again leading up to the '98 season.

Pippen wanted to be treated like a superstar and he wanted to make superstar money, but he never played like one, he had more than a few opportunities to shine as the lead dog and he came up short, he couldn't score when his team needed him to, and Phil knew that. You have to be a mediocre scorer to put up the scoring numbers with the efficiency that Scottie did in the most of those Playoff series.

The one thing he did get right was calling out Phil for shitting on Kobe after their 3-Peat, that was uncalled for.
Facts. I mean honestly, and Jamal Mashburn on the Knuckleheads podcast (who dropped 50 on Scottie in the mid to late 90s when scoring was at a premium and 50 translates today would be like 60+) said his defense and Scottie as a player in general was always overrated. More of a team defender than anything.

I mean I remember G-Hill abusing him until 33 - 35 year old Mike would have to get on him to lock him up. And there isn’t enough offensive firepower from Scottie to justify being ranked over other dudes. Monster Mash took McGrady and Nique over Scottie. At the end of the day putting the ball in the hole at a high level is always most valuable.

Do you really take Scottie over guys from his own era like Nique, Worthy, Hill, or even a guy like Mashburn? He wasn’t better than any of them as a singular player. Maybe Mashburn even though he was a much better player offensively to build around.

And if you do, what about guys that have come since?

Scottie isn’t a better player than McGrady, Pierce, PG13, Kawhi, Giannis, Tatum, maybe Melo, and definitely not better than LeBron and Durant.

The underrating of Pippen was never out of slight to him, as anyone who grew up in that era watching knew his real value. It was usually just honest assessment.

The overrating of Scottie really came as a means to attempt to discredit and bring down Mike a peg. Mainly to inflate the value of then Kobe, and now LeBron by their insecure stans.


Did he though? Jordan said this of Pippen in the 1st episode of the documentary.

"Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen," Jordan said in the documentary. "Everybody says I won all these championships. But I didn't win without Scottie Pippen. That's why I consider him my greatest teammate of all-time."Apr 20, 2020
Exactly. He gave Scottie plenty of props. As a sidekick, a star (not superstar) he got his just due in the doc. Also was blatantly factual about all the negatives he brought to the situation too … it wasn’t biased or slander. Just factual, honestly. He’s off his hinges with his level of salt. Same level of pouty bitchiness he displayed with the Kukoc play in the ECSF game.

[3ba11]

I'll say this in all fairness. I heard Cowherd talk about how Pippen wanted to be the man until he saw all that it entailed. Which was the off the court stuff like taking hard questions. He said Pippen routinely stayed away from media. That's one aspect I agree with MJ on.

Saying that, Jordan still threw Pippen under the bus.


In all fairness?

You're claiming Pippen was a #1 option when he had a top 1000 scoring peak and the biggest choking instances in history without Jordan, including thee 94' ECSF and 00' WCF... So you're talking delusional nonsense and giving Pippen credit for 6 rings like he's a 1st option, when he couldn't score - there's almost never been a champion 2nd option with worse stats, and there's never been a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd option in history.. Literally no one was carried more than Pippen.

And since apparently you'll listen to Cowherd - Cowherd said that NO COACH ran plays for pippen - in the 4th quarter of the 2000 WCF, the blazers ran plays for Steve Smith, Arvydas Sabonis, Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi - but none for Pippen... This was STANDARD because Pippen was just a defensive role player, according to Colin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=04m36s


That's Cowherd saying that, not 3ball... (but 3ball says the exact same thing)

[97 bulls]

Facts. I mean honestly, and Jamal Mashburn on the Knuckleheads podcast (who dropped 50 on Scottie in the mid to late 90s when scoring was at a premium and 50 translates today would be like 60+) said his defense and Scottie as a player in general was always overrated. More of a team defender than anything.

I mean I remember G-Hill abusing him until 33 - 35 year old Mike would have to get on him to lock him up. And there isn’t enough offensive firepower from Scottie to justify being ranked over other dudes. Monster Mash took McGrady and Nique over Scottie. At the end of the day putting the ball in the hole at a high level is always most valuable.

Do you really take Scottie over guys from his own era like Nique, Worthy, Hill, or even a guy like Mashburn? He wasn’t better than any of them as a singular player. Maybe Mashburn even though he was a much better player offensively to build around.

And if you do, what about guys that have come since?

Scottie isn’t a better player than McGrady, Pierce, PG13, Kawhi, Giannis, Tatum, maybe Melo, and definitely not better than LeBron and Durant.

The underrating of Pippen was never out of slight to him, as anyone who grew up in that era watching knew his real value. It was usually just honest assessment.

The overrating of Scottie really came as a means to attempt to discredit and bring down Mike a peg. Mainly to inflate the value of then Kobe, and now LeBron by their insecure stans.


Exactly. He gave Scottie plenty of props. As a sidekick, a star (not superstar) he got his just due in the doc. Also was blatantly factual about all the negatives he brought to the situation too … it wasn’t biased or slander. Just factual, honestly. He’s off his hinges with his level of salt. Same level of pouty bitchiness he displayed with the Kukoc play in the ECSF game.

All of these arguments have been refuted a million times. It's like you guys want to stay in the dark.

[3ba11]

All of these arguments have been refuted a million times. It's like you guys want to stay in the dark.


You said previously that you abide by Cowherd so what do you think about Cowherd calling Pippen a defensive role player and not the kind of player that any coach would run plays for:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=04m37s

[97 bulls]

In all fairness?

You're claiming Pippen was a #1 option when he had a top 1000 scoring peak and the biggest choking instances in history without Jordan, including thee 94' ECSF and 00' WCF... So you're talking delusional nonsense and giving Pippen credit for 6 rings like he's a 1st option, when he couldn't score - there's almost never been a champion 2nd option with worse stats, and there's never been a bigger gap between 1st and 2nd option in history.. Literally no one was carried more than Pippen.

And since apparently you'll listen to Cowherd - Cowherd said that NO COACH ran plays for pippen - in the 4th quarter of the 2000 WCF, the blazers ran plays for Steve Smith, Arvydas Sabonis, Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi - but none for Pippen... This was STANDARD because Pippen was just a defensive role player, according to Colin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=04m36s


That's Cowherd saying that, not 3ball... (but 3ball says the exact same thing)

Who else on that team could get their own shot 3ball? Who was Pippens Pippen? Grant? Very good player. But Grant was Jordan's number 3 guy. THE BULLS DIDNT REPLACE JORDAN WITH A VIABLE 2ND SCORING OPTION 3BALL!!!!! They had to play as a team and that why they won 55 games.

But let's kill your Pippen could only score 22ppg. MAYBE THATS BECASUE HE HAD TO BE THE TEAMS BEST DEFENDER, BEST HELP DEFENDER, BEST DEFENSIVE ANCHOR, BEST REBOUNDER, BEST PASSER, AND RUN THE OFFENSE!!!!! Do you know how much energy you need to do that and score 26-27 ppg efficiently over 82 games and the 90s? When defense and thuggery was emphasized?

You're unreasonable.

[97 bulls]

You said previously that you abide by Cowherd so what do you think about Cowherd calling Pippen a defensive role player and not the kind of player that any coach would run plays for:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=04m37s

I never said I abide by Cowherd. I unlike you can take everything into consideration. I acknowledged what Cowherd stated about Pippen after the game was over.

[bullettooth]

Pipp is probably on ISH, there's legit posters and all their alts making posts everyday claiming he was better than Jordan. He's not the brightest guy around, after reading that for years he now believes it.

I hope he hasn't read any of 3Balls threads about him :/

[RogueBorg]

Who else on that team could get their own shot 3ball? Who was Pippens Pippen? Grant? Very good player. But Grant was Jordan's number 3 guy. THE BULLS DIDNT REPLACE JORDAN WITH A VIABLE 2ND SCORING OPTION 3BALL!!!!! They had to play as a team and that why they won 55 games.

But let's kill your Pippen could only score 22ppg. MAYBE THATS BECASUE HE HAD TO BE THE TEAMS BEST DEFENDER, BEST HELP DEFENDER, BEST DEFENSIVE ANCHOR, BEST REBOUNDER, BEST PASSER, AND RUN THE OFFENSE!!!!! Do you know how much energy you need to do that and score 26-27 ppg efficiently over 82 games and the 90s? When defense and thuggery was emphasized?

You're unreasonable.

in 1994, Pippen was not the best rebounder on the team.

[3ba11]

Who else on that team could get their own shot 3ball? Who was Pippens Pippen? Grant? Very good player. But Grant was Jordan's number 3 guy. THE BULLS DIDNT REPLACE JORDAN WITH A VIABLE 2ND SCORING OPTION 3BALL!!!!! They had to play as a team and that why they won 55 games.

But let's kill your Pippen could only score 22ppg. MAYBE THATS BECASUE HE HAD TO BE THE TEAMS BEST DEFENDER, BEST HELP DEFENDER, BEST DEFENSIVE ANCHOR, BEST REBOUNDER, BEST PASSER, AND RUN THE OFFENSE!!!!! Do you know how much energy you need to do that and score 26-27 ppg efficiently over 82 games and the 90s? When defense and thuggery was emphasized?

You're unreasonable.


Why did Jordan finish higher in DPOY voting every year if Pippen was the best defender?

Why did everyone say Jordan was the best defender during the 1st three-peat, and not Pippen?

Why did Jordan average more apg and assist percentage than Pippen if Pippen was the leading passer?

Don't make stuff up... Pippen had no offensive responsibility and was never held accountable on that end, so he was a defensive role player like Cowherd said - Ben Simmons is a better rebounder, passer, and scorer with better PER and WS/48 - that's the historical record, not my opinion

The media just blindly gave all-nba to a dunker like Pippen similar to Kobe getting all-defense every year - any association with MJ inflates guys

[Micku]

I don't really feel the documentary really diss Pippen. I don't really get why he's mad about it neither do I get why ppl are saying it.

I mean, I always felt like MJ gave Pippen his props. But everyone got their mistakes and ups and downs. All the things that shown in the doc was Pippen own doing. To basically quitting when Phil Jackson didn't want him to take the final shot, to his long underpaid contract, and recovery during the season.

The doc also showed MJ being an asshole.

I didn't see Pippen as a negative light in the doc. I just saw it as unfortunate. It didn't really show us that we didn't already knew. Maybe the extent of Jerry Krause's ego and MJ and Pip picking on him. But we knew that Pippen was upset with management and his money, we knew Pippen was upset in 94 when he didn't get the last shot. It wasn't slander. Shaq also healed up on company's time. That was his decision. So, it is what it is. Ppl will take it however they want. But he did it.

And the doc didn't just show MJ. It showed Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Rodman.

I think what was said in the doc wasn't much new info. Maybe a little bit here and there. However, it was the production and some clips that are new.

[MadDog]

Who else on that team could get their own shot 3ball? Who was Pippens Pippen? Grant? Very good player. But Grant was Jordan's number 3 guy. THE BULLS DIDNT REPLACE JORDAN WITH A VIABLE 2ND SCORING OPTION 3BALL!!!!! They had to play as a team and that why they won 55 games.

But let's kill your Pippen could only score 22ppg. MAYBE THATS BECASUE HE HAD TO BE THE TEAMS BEST DEFENDER, BEST HELP DEFENDER, BEST DEFENSIVE ANCHOR, BEST REBOUNDER, BEST PASSER, AND RUN THE OFFENSE!!!!! Do you know how much energy you need to do that and score 26-27 ppg efficiently over 82 games and the 90s? When defense and thuggery was emphasized?

You're unreasonable.

Chicago replaced Jordan with Kukoc who you claim is an all-star today. Toni wasn't a "true" replacement for Jordan, sure. Nobody is. But lets not pretend the Bulls only had Pete Myers. With Jordan, the 94 Bulls might've been their best and most dominant version.

[RogueBorg]

I don't really feel the documentary really diss Pippen. I don't really get why he's mad about it neither do I get why ppl are saying it.

I mean, I always felt like MJ gave Pippen his props. But everyone got their mistakes and ups and downs. All the things that shown in the doc was Pippen own doing. To basically quitting when Phil Jackson didn't want him to take the final shot, to his long underpaid contract, and recovery during the season.

The doc also showed MJ being an asshole.

I didn't see Pippen as a negative light in the doc. I just saw it as unfortunate. It didn't really show us that we didn't already knew. Maybe the extent of Jerry Krause's ego and MJ and Pip picking on him. But we knew that Pippen was upset with management and his money, we knew Pippen was upset in 94 when he didn't get the last shot. It wasn't slander.

And the doc didn't just show MJ. It showed Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Rodman.

I think what was said in the doc wasn't much new info. Maybe a little bit here and there. However, it was the production and some clips that are new.

You're absolutely right OP

“He helped me so much in the way I approached the game, the way I played the game. Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen. When everybody says, well, I won all these championships, but I didn’t win without Scottie Pippen. That’s why I consider him my best teammate of all time.”

[97 bulls]

in 1994, Pippen was not the best rebounder on the team.

He was in 95. And I applaud that you agree with everything else.

[getting_old]

i spent a lot of months on work in his college town, visited the campus, oh did he ever come a long way from that

very talented, helps to win on national TV that many times

not an all time great, an all around contributor to a dynasty, great features in his game

but being a suck and easily intimidated detracts from the glory

[3ba11]

You're absolutely right OP

“He helped me so much in the way I approached the game, the way I played the game. Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen. When everybody says, well, I won all these championships, but I didn’t win without Scottie Pippen. That’s why I consider him my best teammate of all time.”


^^^ that's what any star that won 6 FMVP's and 6 rings would say about any teammates he had... That's standard political speak for historic accomplishments.. Jordan plays the grandiose role just like any President or Head of State would.

Ultimately, Jordan was thrilled to be winning - that's all that mattered - he never wondered "why did I have to average 41 ppg for us to win??"

And he never looked at the boxscore to track how Pippen was playing... As long as they won, it was all good..

But despite not tracking Pippen's stats like today's social media does, Jordan still knew on some level that Pippen wasn't up to par - so he included the things he could SEE in the doc - like the chokes in the 94' Playoffs or the migraine, or the postponement of surgery in 98'... So he included those things in the documentary - and that's much classier than spamming the documentary with the stats of Pippen's weak production, which he wasn't fully aware of anyway.

[LAL]

I don't really feel the documentary really diss Pippen. I don't really get why he's mad about it neither do I get why ppl are saying it.

I mean, I always felt like MJ gave Pippen his props. But everyone got their mistakes and ups and downs. All the things that shown in the doc was Pippen own doing. To basically quitting when Phil Jackson didn't want him to take the final shot, to his long underpaid contract, and recovery during the season.

The doc also showed MJ being an asshole.

I didn't see Pippen as a negative light in the doc. I just saw it as unfortunate. It didn't really show us that we didn't already knew. Maybe the extent of Jerry Krause's ego and MJ and Pip picking on him. But we knew that Pippen was upset with management and his money, we knew Pippen was upset in 94 when he didn't get the last shot. It wasn't slander. Shaq also healed up on company's time. That was his decision. So, it is what it is. Ppl will take it however they want. But he did it.

And the doc didn't just show MJ. It showed Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Rodman.

I think what was said in the doc wasn't much new info. Maybe a little bit here and there. However, it was the production and some clips that are new.

Great post

[97 bulls]

Why did Jordan finish higher in DPOY voting every year if Pippen was the best defender?

Why did everyone say Jordan was the best defender during the 1st three-peat, and not Pippen?

Why did Jordan average more apg and assist percentage than Pippen if Pippen was the leading passer?

Don't make stuff up... Pippen had no offensive responsibility and was never held accountable on that end, so he was a defensive role player like Cowherd said - Ben Simmons is a better rebounder, passer, and scorer with better PER and WS/48 - that's the historical record, not my opinion

The media just blindly gave all-nba to a dunker like Pippen similar to Kobe getting all-defense every year - any association with MJ inflates guys

I'm talking about 94 and 95. See how sensitive and unreasonable you get when contextualized facts slap the shit out of you?

Its also historical record and fact that the Bulls went farther with Pippen and no Jordan than Jordan and no Pippen.

Pippen was considered the better defender from 94 on.

[97 bulls]

I don't really feel the documentary really diss Pippen. I don't really get why he's mad about it neither do I get why ppl are saying it.

I mean, I always felt like MJ gave Pippen his props. But everyone got their mistakes and ups and downs. All the things that shown in the doc was Pippen own doing. To basically quitting when Phil Jackson didn't want him to take the final shot, to his long underpaid contract, and recovery during the season.

The doc also showed MJ being an asshole.

I didn't see Pippen as a negative light in the doc. I just saw it as unfortunate. It didn't really show us that we didn't already knew. Maybe the extent of Jerry Krause's ego and MJ and Pip picking on him. But we knew that Pippen was upset with management and his money, we knew Pippen was upset in 94 when he didn't get the last shot. It wasn't slander. Shaq also healed up on company's time. That was his decision. So, it is what it is. Ppl will take it however they want. But he did it.

And the doc didn't just show MJ. It showed Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Rodman.

I think what was said in the doc wasn't much new info. Maybe a little bit here and there. However, it was the production and some clips that are new.

They left out all of Pippens great moments. And only touched on the his defense on Magic sparingly

[LAL]

i spent a lot of months on work in his college town, visited the campus, oh did he ever come a long way from that

very talented, helps to win on national TV that many times

not an all time great, an all around contributor to a dynasty, great features in his game

but being a suck and easily intimidated detracts from the glory

Agree. What made him extra popular imo was being a Chicago Bull in the 90s, the rings, his look, the athleticism and stylish dunks.

Shawn Marion type in reality.

[3ba11]

I don't really feel the documentary really diss Pippen. I don't really get why he's mad about it neither do I get why ppl are saying it.

I mean, I always felt like MJ gave Pippen his props. But everyone got their mistakes and ups and downs. All the things that shown in the doc was Pippen own doing. To basically quitting when Phil Jackson didn't want him to take the final shot, to his long underpaid contract, and recovery during the season.

The doc also showed MJ being an asshole.

I didn't see Pippen as a negative light in the doc. I just saw it as unfortunate. It didn't really show us that we didn't already knew. Maybe the extent of Jerry Krause's ego and MJ and Pip picking on him. But we knew that Pippen was upset with management and his money, we knew Pippen was upset in 94 when he didn't get the last shot. It wasn't slander. Shaq also healed up on company's time. That was his decision. So, it is what it is. Ppl will take it however they want. But he did it.

And the doc didn't just show MJ. It showed Pippen, Phil Jackson, and Rodman.

I think what was said in the doc wasn't much new info. Maybe a little bit here and there. However, it was the production and some clips that are new.


So the inclusion those things in the doc was RANDOM?.. I don't think so.. Jordan knew what he was doing by including the migraine, the 94' choke, and the 98' surgery..

Normally, Jordan is a great statesman of the game and says all the things that a 6-time champion would say about his teammates - but the doc proves that he wasn't all that happy with Pippen after all - maybe Jordan DOES resent having to achieve the goat stats to win...

Lebron resents carrying underperforming teammates, so he team-hops around.. Jordan didn't get to do this but he obviously doesn't like weak teammates either... Do you think jordan LIKED having to get in X-man's face to save Pippen from having another migrane in Game 7 of the 92' ECSF?.. Pippen was getting destroyed in that series and Jordan probably realized that he should've done that to Rodman and Laimbeer when they punked Pippen in 1990.

Do you think Jordan LIKED having to still play hard after getting up 3-0 in the 96' Finals??.. If only Pippen wasn't wetting the bed with 11 on 27% to finish out the series.

[LAL]

They left out all of Pippens great moments. And only touched on the his defense on Magic sparingly

Like What? Didn't they talk about his 94 all star mvp enough or? They could've added the 47 against the 97 nuggets imo.

[3ba11]

Like What? Didn't they talk about his 94 all star mvp enough or? They could've added the 47 against the 97 nuggets imo.


a regular season game?

how low must the bar be lowered for this guy?

willie burton had 54 in a game.. so what

[Chick Stern]

Lot of Jordan-stans in this thread.
https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2012/02/meyers.gif

Ultimately, Scottie is just trying to sell more books.
Divorce is expensive!

Also, let’s keep in mind this all occurred during the weakest NBA decade.

[3ba11]

Jordan is normally a great statesman of the game and says all the things that a 6-time champion would say about his teammates - but the doc proves that he wasn't all that happy with Pippen after all - maybe Jordan DOES resent having to achieve the goat stats to win...

Lebron resents carrying underperforming teammates, so he team-hops around.. Jordan didn't team-hop but he obviously doesn't like weak teammates either...

Do you think jordan LIKED having to get in X-man's face to save Pippen from having another migrane in Game 7 of the 92' ECSF?.. Pippen was getting destroyed in that series and Jordan probably realized that he should've done that to Rodman and Laimbeer when they punked Pippen in 1990.

Do you think Jordan LIKED having to still play hard after getting up 3-0 in the 96' Finals??.. If only Pippen wasn't wetting the bed with 11 on 27% to finish out the series.

Pippen's actual performance frequently fell short of adequate help, and MJ must know that on some level.

[LAL]

a regular season game?

how low must the bar be lowered for this guy?

willie burton had 54 in a game.. so what

It was sarcasm but my english is flawed.

[97 bulls]

Like What? Didn't they talk about his 94 all star mvp enough or? They could've added the 47 against the 97 nuggets imo.
The documentary skipped over thr Bulls comeback in 92 that was led by Pippen, the 93 ECF vs the Knicks where Pippen was the best player on the floor (other than Jordan's 50pt game that series), they didnt touch on 95 at all when Pippen became the 3rd player in history to lead his team in every major category, they didnt touch on 97 when Jackson sat Jordan and the starters and Pippen led the Bulls back into the game vs the Jazz, they didnt mention Pippens stifling defense on Mark Jackson which killed the Pacers offense, they didnt mentione Pippens defensive brilliance in 98 game 3 when the Bulls beat the Jazz by 42. I thought they couldve done a better job showing Pippens toughness when he hurt his back in game 6. The man took a charge from Karl Malone for goodnes sake. And these are just a few of Pippens great moments.

[3ba11]

It was sarcasm but my english is flawed.


no actually it's my bad reading comp.. i sensed it was sacasm but still couldn't resist

[red1]

gotta say man - this pippen slander aint it



everyone who REALLY KNOWS, really knows that jordan has been jealous of pippen for a while



if you know what I mean.

[WhiteKyrie]

All of these arguments have been refuted a million times. It's like you guys want to stay in the dark.

Not for me to see. So let me get this straight, in your fanboy delusion … do you think Scottie Pippen is a better basketball player than the following:

And FYI I don’t mean more accomplished. Because those 6 rings would be nonexistent without his vastly superior head honcho and lead Doberman dog who carried him exclusively on offense.

Dominique Wilkins?
James Worthy?
Grant Hill?
Paul Pierce?
Tracy McGrady?
Carmelo Anthony?
LeBron James?
Kevin Durant?
Paul George?
Kawhi Leonard?
Luka Doncic?
Jason Tatum?

I’m going to give you a hint, he’s not better or greater than literally any single one of those guys, whatsoever. Tatum and Luka it’s really early but already with how good they have been at such a young age, plus trajectory? He’s better as well.

[red1]

hint - madonna

[3ba11]

The documentary skipped over thr Bulls comeback in 92 that was led by Pippen, the 93 ECF vs the Knicks where Pippen was the best player on the floor (other than Jordan's 50pt game that series), they didnt touch on 95 at all when Pippen became the 3rd player in history to lead his team in every major category, they didnt touch on 97 when Jackson sat Jordan and the starters and Pippen led the Bulls back into the game vs the Jazz, they didnt mention Pippens stifling defense on Mark Jackson which killed the Pacers offense, they didnt mentione Pippens defensive brilliance in 98 game 3 when the Bulls beat the Jazz by 42. I thought they couldve done a better job showing Pippens toughness when he hurt his back in game 6. The man took a charge from Karl Malone for goodnes sake. And these are just a few of Pippens great moments.


The documentary didn't capture the 1992 ECSF, where Pippen's horrific play while getting destroyed by X-man nearly caused a historic, upset loss


X-man 92' ECF.... 18.6 on 50%
Pippen 92' ECF.... 16.0 on 40%


^^^^ that's just one example.

the doc could've showed Dominique and Willis ragdolling Pippen in the 93' Playoffs.

Or Juwan Howard, Larry Johnson, Kemp and Reggie Miller destroying Pippen as well in the Playoffs... Penny went off on Pippen - everyone got their normal numbers or better on Pippen.

[Micku]

They left out all of Pippens great moments. And only touched on the his defense on Magic sparingly

Eh. If you say so.

I don't really consider it to be a big deal. I don't recall the doc showing specifics on Rodman defense on Shaq either or how well he did in 96. They did show him being a great help when Pippen was out. And they constantly mention how Pippen was under valued and under paid. They talk about how good he was in the late 80s and early 90s, for sure. They briefly talk about how good he was within the triangle, but MJ didn't believe in it initially. Thinking he should take the last shot instead of Bill Cartwright with 5 secs left or something. But they talk about the migraine game too. It was a big moment.

I expect something similar if they talk about Miami Heat when they won. Probably won't talk about as Wade as much in that Pacers series as much as they are gonn'a talk about that LeBron Celtics. Same thing with showtime Lakers which will be more center around Magic than Kareem.

It is what it is. But it wasn't negative. They always gave him his props, showing defensively he is a monster. They mention how Pippen picked up Magic full court and not letting him get going or get into their sets. But I wasn't expecting a detail analysis or anything. The doc wasn't that.

It isn't anything to get angry over to me. But obviously, ppl have different opinions and expectations about it.

[97 bulls]

Eh. If you say so.

I don't really consider it to be a big deal. I don't recall the doc showing specifics on Rodman defense on Shaq either or how well he did in 96. They did show him being a great help when Pippen was out. And they constantly mention how Pippen was under valued and under paid. They talk about how good he was in the late 80s and early 90s, for sure. They briefly talk about how good he was within the triangle, but MJ didn't believe in it initially. Thinking he should take the last shot instead of Bill Cartwright with 5 secs left or something. But they talk about the migraine game too. It was a big moment.

I expect something similar if they talk about Miami Heat when they won. Probably won't talk about as Wade as much in that Pacers series as much as they are gonn'a talk about that LeBron Celtics. Same thing with showtime Lakers which will be more center around Magic than Kareem.

It is what it is. But it wasn't negative. They always gave him his props, showing defensively he is a monster. They mention how Pippen picked up Magic full court and not letting him get going or get into their sets. But I wasn't expecting a detail analysis or anything. The doc wasn't that.

It isn't anything to get angry over to me. But obviously, ppl have different opinions and expectations about it.

Lol. Bro. You totally gloss over DEFINING MOMENTS in the Bulls Championship run. If Pippen doesn't play the way he did in 93, the Bulls don't win. The same for 92. And so on. The series didnt capture Pippens defining moments.

And yes you're right. They shouldve acknowledge Rodmans defensive efforts on Shaq. And the fact that his rebounding prowess is what saved the Bulls in 96.

What do you mean if you say so?

The Documentary was presented as chronicling the Bulls Championship dynasty and the Final run. What we got was Jordans explores. And his excuses for his shortcomings. As well as the Bulls teammates.

[WhiteKyrie]

Eh. If you say so.

I don't really consider it to be a big deal. I don't recall the doc showing specifics on Rodman defense on Shaq either or how well he did in 96. They did show him being a great help when Pippen was out. And they constantly mention how Pippen was under valued and under paid. They talk about how good he was in the late 80s and early 90s, for sure. They briefly talk about how good he was within the triangle, but MJ didn't believe in it initially. Thinking he should take the last shot instead of Bill Cartwright with 5 secs left or something. But they talk about the migraine game too. It was a big moment.

I expect something similar if they talk about Miami Heat when they won. Probably won't talk about as Wade as much in that Pacers series as much as they are gonn'a talk about that LeBron Celtics. Same thing with showtime Lakers which will be more center around Magic than Kareem.

It is what it is. But it wasn't negative. They always gave him his props, showing defensively he is a monster. They mention how Pippen picked up Magic full court and not letting him get going or get into their sets. But I wasn't expecting a detail analysis or anything. The doc wasn't that.

It isn't anything to get angry over to me. But obviously, ppl have different opinions and expectations about it.
100% facts. Plus, Scottie Pippen didn’t do anything on the level of saving or carrying Chicago at any point during that three peat of some heavy lifting job to showcase.

Hell, Scottie Pippen never even had a Dwyane Wade moment or two, where he just totally eviscerated the other team. Because obviously Wade is a whole other tier quality of player but …

And I guarantee if they ever make a LeBron documentary or about the Miami Heatles days. They’re not gonna mention D-Wade’s selflessness to accommodate the whole thing. Or the times he saved them on the road in the finals in 2013 against the spurs. Or his performance against the Pacers.

Let alone the fact that they should’ve won in 2011 when Dwayne unlike Scottie Pippen‘s abilities, played like an actual MVP caliber player, and LeBron either quit or just couldn’t take advantage of old Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion and midget milkman JJ Barea?

Pip might’ve done some heavy lifting in a singular game versus the 93 Knicks. But besides that? It was obviously and legendarily, predominantly Jordan.

Scottie was the prototypical sidekick. Michael gave him credit countless times, as does the documentary for his actual role. Nothing was underplayed.

The tumultuous situations Scottie put Chicago through, partly due to his own moronic thinking or selfishness. That was all facts. He nearly sabotaged the 1998 season on his lonesome. And did so through pure petty, bitch like selfishness. He left his entire team down and out to dry potentially. If it wasn’t for 35 year old, heavy lifting solo job from Michael that justified his final MVP season.

As you said, nobody mentions Dennis Rodman’s defense on Shaquille O’Neal in that 1996 Eastern conference finals that was so critical. You don’t see Dennis having a goddamn bloody tampon meltdown about it. That defensive job was critical in Chicago spanking the ever loving shit out of that super talented and stacked Magic team. Gaining retribution from the season prior.

Hell, they don’t even mention Scottie’s absolutely putrid scoring and statistical numbers from that second three peat. That put any other championship level sidekick to shame in terms of under performing. They could’ve been even more honest about him and making him look worse, tbh.

And to be honest Scottie looks even worse because originally Chicago was going to trade him after that playoff incident in 1994 for Shawn Kemp. Michael Jordan still would’ve been able to three peat again with that version of Shawn Kemp. He wasn’t grossly out of shape and useless until that 1999 lockout shortened season where he got fat. And Michael probably would’ve even let him get to that point anyway with Tim Grover and his “breakfast club” training regimen.

And then Michael saved Scottie’s ass again, because Krause wanted to trade him after 1997 for McGrady and Mike stuck his neck out for him to keep him in Chicago. Only for Scottie to selfishly pull what he did to leverage management in that 98 season by sitting out half the season.

Also, this whole narrative that like Michael Jordan scripted the documentary, just a controlling narrative in and prop himself up more? Needs to stop. Yes his production company was the ones that authorize the footage and everything like that. But he didn’t write the script to this thing. And nothing was embellished in his favor.

Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time. He’s the best person to ever lace up a pair of basketball shoes. He’s an American icon and national treasure. There’s no way the documentary wouldn’t focus mostly on him as the foundation. Because he was the foundation for a Chicago Bulls franchise even being a super power and dynasty. Regardless of the pieces they surrounded him with. He’s the focal point of interest.

Nothing was embellished in a mythological way to make Mike look better than he was in the documentary. It was all factual.

Hell, if anything they focus on the negatives surrounding Michael. His gambling and competitive addiction. Him taking off to try baseball. His dad’s murder. His authoritative and bullying rule over his teammates. The fear he instilled in opponents and his own teammates. That could be perceived as a negative. And Michael talks about it emotionally in the documentary, that the only people that critique that are people who are soft but also aren’t winners and have never won shit.

[97 bulls]

Not for me to see. So let me get this straight, in your fanboy delusion … do you think Scottie Pippen is a better basketball player than the following:

And FYI I don’t mean more accomplished. Because those 6 rings would be nonexistent without his vastly superior head honcho and lead Doberman dog who carried him exclusively on offense.

Dominique Wilkins? Yes
James Worthy? Yes
Grant Hill? Yes But we never got to see his prime
Paul Pierce? Yes
Tracy McGrady? Yes
Carmelo Anthony? Yes
LeBron James? No
Kevin Durant? No
Paul George? Yes
Kawhi Leonard? Even
Luka Doncic? Too early
Jason Tatum? Yes

I’m going to give you a hint, he’s not better or greater than literally any single one of those guys, whatsoever. Tatum and Luka it’s really early but already with how good they have been at such a young age, plus trajectory? He’s better as well.
You're a troll just like the rest.

[97 bulls]

100% facts. Plus, Scottie Pippen didn’t do anything on the level of saving or carrying Chicago at any point during that three peat of some heavy lifting.

He might’ve done some heavy lifting in a game versus the 93 Knicks in a singular game. But besides that? It was obviously and legendarily, predominantly Jordan.

Scottie was the prototypical sidekick. Michael gave him credit countless times, as does the documentary for his actual role. Nothing was underplayed.

The tumultuous situation is Scottie put Chicago through, partly due to his own moronic thinking or selfishness. That was all facts. He nearly sabotaged the 1998 season on his lonesome. And did so through pure petty, bitch like selfishness. He left his entire team down and out to dry potentially. If it wasn’t for 35 year old, heavy lifting solo job from Michael that justified his final MVP season.

As you said, nobody mentions Dennis Rodman’s defense on Shaquille O’Neal in that 1996 Eastern conference finals that was so critical. You don’t see Dennis having a goddamn bloody tampon meltdown about it. That defensive job was critical in Chicago spanking the ever loving shit out of that super talented and stacked Magic team. Gaining retribution from the season prior.

Hell, they don’t even mention Scottie’s absolutely putrid scoring and statistical numbers from that second three peat. That put any other championship level sidekick to shame in terms of under performing. They could’ve been even more honest about him and making him look worse, tbh.

And to be honest Scottie looks even worse because originally Chicago was going to trade him after that playoff incident in 1994 for Shawn Kemp. Michael Jordan still would’ve been able to three peat again with that version of Shawn Kemp. He wasn’t grossly out of shape and useless until that 1999 lockout shortened season where he got fat. And Michael probably would’ve even let him get to that point anyway with Tim Grover and his “breakfast club” training regimen.

And then Michael saved Scottie’s ass again, because Krause wanted to trade him after 1997 for McGrady and Mike stuck his neck out for him to keep him in Chicago. Only for Scottie to selfishly pull what he did to leverage management in that 98 season by sitting out half the season.

Also, this whole narrative that like Michael Jordan scripted the documentary, just a controlling narrative in and prop himself up more? Needs to stop. Yes his production company was the ones that authorize the footage and everything like that. But he didn’t write the script to this thing. And nothing was embellished in his favor.

Didnt read.

[WhiteKyrie]

You're a troll just like the rest.

No you’re a stan.

Scottie Pippen literally isn’t better than any of those guys. Best case scenario him and James Worthy are on the same level. And given what they both bring and don’t bring and their place on their championship teams, it’s about accurate.

Everybody else has superior game all around, mainly offensively. The only person on that list his level defensively is Kawhi Leonard. And he’s probably arguably actually superior defensively being better on ball and clearly better offensively. Plus he’s been the lead dog on championship winning teams with Finals MVPs as his team’s best player to show for it.

Paul George is almost on the level of Scottie Pippen defensively, just slightly worse, but also is leaps and bounds better offensively.

LeBron had a brief three year stretch where he actually played defense from 2011 - 2013 where he essentially replicated Scottie’s defensive abilities.

Durant has had a few seasons being impactful on that level, while LeBron and KD obviously being light years more advanced evolutionary wise offensively.

And then there’s so many guys on that list that are more accomplished, some young but already clearly more impactful players as their teams best player, or have finals MVPs. And some have all kinds of clutch moments Scottie could never touch.

When an era contemporary like Mashburn who played Dominique Wilkins, Tracy McGrady, takes both of them over Scottie Pippen. You being a stan of his does not make what you have to say more accurate.

[Micku]

Lol. Bro. You totally gloss over DEFINING MOMENTS in the Bulls Championship run. If Pippen doesn't play the way he did in 93, the Bulls don't win. The same for 92. And so on. The series didnt capture Pippens defining moments.

And yes you're right. They shouldve acknowledge Rodmans defensive efforts on Shaq. And the fact that his rebounding prowess is what saved the Bulls in 96.

What do you mean if you say so?

The Documentary was presented as chronicling the Bulls Championship dynasty and the Final run. What we got was Jordans explores. And his excuses for his shortcomings. As well as the Bulls teammates.

Because I don't look at it the same way. If you feel that way, then you just feel that way.

In terms of Jordan explores, what do you think what was going to happen? Of course it's going to be like that. MJ is the star. It was MJ show. You would have to dig deep to get into the details about it if you want more. But even then it's all center by MJ. Same thing with most of these sports documentaries. In fact, I was surprise how much it went into the other guys. But of course, it was more center around MJ. It happens all the time with the Bulls documentaries. If you go the Jackson Five, they going to go around Michael Jackson more so than Tito lol. Even if Michael joined later. In this case, it was MJ who joined first. In very similar way it would do with a Celts documentary that talk about the 80s as well as a showtime documentary. They gonn'a focus on the Magic or Bird more so than anyone else. They are the superstars.

Hardly anyone talks about how good Cedric Maxwell was in detail in the finals. Or how good Tiny was. They talk about Bird.

Like I said, I expect the exact same thing when LeBron type of documentary in his teams. Even if big three of the Miami Heat, they are gonn'a focus on LeBron.

And if they ever do a documentary again of Kobe post Shaq, they ain't talk about Pau Gasol as much they gonn'a highlight Kobe stuff. Even if they do label it Lakers 08-10 or whatever, it's going to be about Kobe mostly.

Same thing here. They ain't gonn'a talk about how vital Grant was in those early 3 peats as much Pippen. And they ain't talk about Pippen as much MJ. MJ just got a bunch of iconic moments that ppl remember by. Tho they did talk about how much MJ gott'a pass the ball and trust in his teammates. He can't do everything about by himself.

But even then, they don't really go into details. They highlight Pippen defense on Magic for a moment, they didn't talk about MJ defense. And they completely ignore the help defense they had on Magic. Cliff Levingston got no love. They didn't talk about how Paxson on fire that series. They didn't even talk about MJ's game tying shot. They don't talk about either defense on Clyde. They didn't talk about defense on Penny. Reggie. They didn't really talk about the Jordan rules as much, they didn't talk about Tex Winter as much, they didn't talk about Ron Harper defensive prowess and how much he was underrated, I don't remember if they talk about the cocaine problems that they had prior to the champ runs, they didn't talk about how Will Purdue was a fan favorite, and etc etc.

But again, it's not like what was presented was wrong. I didn't even take it as a negative. It was more unfortunate that Pippen was kind'a screwed. But I didn't think they showed in bad light. And it's not that they didn't give him his props. They did. But they aren't going show all that. Of course not. But they did more in this documentary than any other documentaries that I seen about the Bulls. This talk more about Krause and the relationship than anything.

Do I think they could discuss more? Yeah. My point is, it wasn't anything to be that mad over imo. All of this stuff was said before. Obviously, Pippen doesn't feel that way.Perhaps if MJ told Pippen if he was gonn'a make him look good behind close doors, and Pippen didn't see the end product lol. I don't think the casuals care as much. I don't think it helps or hurt Pippen's legacy.

But if someone is mad that the doc is MJ focus, then I don't know what to tell'em. The truth is, the mids 80s to 90s Bulls was MJ and then everyone else. That's the pecking the order. Without MJ, there wouldn't be a doc. Of course he is gonn'a get the spotlight. That's how it works for everything b-ball. Like if you disagree with it and feel there needs more, then that's fine. I won't argue. But that's the way it goes. From books to the docs to these forums. It's MJ. You would have to go to other sources to get material or just watch the games yourself. As I said before, this doc better job than the other docs, but it doesn't show the whole the picture into details.

[SATAN]

Pippen is so important for you guys right now in your fight against MJ.

Think about his health for a minute you jerks.

I just gave Pippen a compliment, moron.

[MadDog]

Because I don't look at it the same way. If you feel that way, then you just feel that way.

In terms of Jordan explores, what do you think what was going to happen? Of course it's going to be like that. MJ is the star. It was MJ show. You would have to dig deep to get into the details about it if you want more. But even then it's all center by MJ. Same thing with most of these sports documentaries. In fact, I was surprise how much it went into the other guys. But of course, it was more center around MJ. It happens all the time with the Bulls documentaries. If you go the Jackson Five, they going to go around Michael Jackson more so than Tito lol. Even if Michael joined later. In this case, it was MJ who joined first. In very similar way it would do with a Celts documentary that talk about the 80s as well as a showtime documentary. They gonn'a focus on the Magic or Bird more so than anyone else. They are the superstars.

Hardly anyone talks about how good Cedric Maxwell was in detail in the finals. Or how good Tiny was. They talk about Bird.

Like I said, I expect the exact same thing when LeBron type of documentary in his teams. Even if big three of the Miami Heat, they are gonn'a focus on LeBron.

And if they ever do a documentary again of Kobe post Shaq, they ain't talk about Pau Gasol as much they gonn'a highlight Kobe stuff. Even if they do label it Lakers 08-10 or whatever, it's going to be about Kobe mostly.

Same thing here. They ain't gonn'a talk about how vital Grant was in those early 3 peats as much Pippen. And they ain't talk about Pippen as much MJ. MJ just got a bunch of iconic moments that ppl remember by. Tho they did talk about how much MJ gott'a pass the ball and trust in his teammates. He can't do everything about by himself.

But even then, they don't really go into details. They highlight Pippen defense on Magic for a moment, they didn't talk about MJ defense. And they completely ignore the help defense they had on Magic. Cliff Levingston got no love. They didn't talk about how Paxson on fire that series. They didn't even talk about MJ's game tying shot. They don't talk about either defense on Clyde. They didn't talk about defense on Penny. Reggie. They didn't really talk about the Jordan rules as much, they didn't talk about Tex Winter as much, they didn't talk about Ron Harper defensive prowess and how much he was underrated, I don't remember if they talk about the cocaine problems that they had prior to the champ runs, they didn't talk about how Will Purdue was a fan favorite, and etc etc.

But again, it's not like what was presented was wrong. I didn't even take it as a negative. It was more unfortunate that Pippen was kind'a screwed. But I didn't think they showed in bad light. And it's not that they didn't give him his props. They did. But they aren't going show all that. Of course not. But they did more in this documentary than any other documentaries that I seen about the Bulls. This talk more about Krause and the relationship than anything.

Do I think they could discuss more? Yeah. My point is, it wasn't anything to be that mad over imo. All of this stuff was said before. Obviously, Pippen doesn't feel that way.Perhaps if MJ told Pippen if he was gonn'a make him look good behind close doors, and Pippen didn't see the end product lol. I don't think the casuals care as much. I don't think it helps or hurt Pippen's legacy.

You raise good points, but Pippen has a right to be angry. And so do his fans. The 94 quit job had nothing to do with a Jordan-led Bulls team. Jordan overcoming the odds and leading a dynasty was the doc's main objective. Sure his teammates got some love, but not while Jordan was retired. Scott wasn't praised for what he did in 94, he was ridiculed for quitting. Understandably so, but it is what it is.

The rehab stuff is legit, because that happened while Jordan was there. The 94 incident though? It wasn't a lie, but was painted Jordan's preferred color. The implication is that without him, Chicago was in disarray. Based on the doc's narration, Jordan could have gone without it.

[HALLandOATES]

Show me an instance where Pippen played at a top 50 all-time level - he never played anywhere near top 50, but people conflate resume with performance - Pippen's 6 rings inflates his resume because people give him credit for rings like he's a 1st option for some reason.. They don't do it with anyone else, only Pippen, even though he was the biggest 2nd option ever (low stats and the biggest gap between 1st and 2nd option ever)

You’re right, if you sit and think it out franchise guys like Tracey McGrady,Vince Carter, Alonzo mourning , Ray allen ,Chris Webber and even guys like Chauncey Billups,Rasheed Wallace are all flat out better

Even guys like Michael Redd or Glenn Rice might even be better if Pippen didn’t have 6 rings and just 1 maybe ...if you really want to go down the rabbit hole 🤣

I’ve sat and listed out my top 30 in my head a lot, but if I had to guess Pippen would be top 60-70 if you really don’t overall value his championships like most people do when ranking him.Might even be just top 100 ,idk of the top of my head .

His championships carry so much weight but they don’t at the same time when rating him as a player ,most espn or other sports sites list him top 20-30 and I feel like everybody just goes with it... it’s so far off from the truth

[HALLandOATES]

Facts. I mean honestly, and Jamal Mashburn on the Knuckleheads podcast (who dropped 50 on Scottie in the mid to late 90s when scoring was at a premium and 50 translates today would be like 60+) said his defense and Scottie as a player in general was always overrated. More of a team defender than anything.

I mean I remember G-Hill abusing him until 33 - 35 year old Mike would have to get on him to lock him up. And there isn’t enough offensive firepower from Scottie to justify being ranked over other dudes. Monster Mash took McGrady and Nique over Scottie. At the end of the day putting the ball in the hole at a high level is always most valuable.

Do you really take Scottie over guys from his own era like Nique, Worthy, Hill, or even a guy like Mashburn? He wasn’t better than any of them as a singular player. Maybe Mashburn even though he was a much better player offensively to build around.

And if you do, what about guys that have come since?

Scottie isn’t a better player than McGrady, Pierce, PG13, Kawhi, Giannis, Tatum, maybe Melo, and definitely not better than LeBron and Durant.

The underrating of Pippen was never out of slight to him, as anyone who grew up in that era watching knew his real value. It was usually just honest assessment.

The overrating of Scottie really came as a means to attempt to discredit and bring down Mike a peg. Mainly to inflate the value of then Kobe, and now LeBron by their insecure stans.


Exactly. He gave Scottie plenty of props. As a sidekick, a star (not superstar) he got his just due in the doc. Also was blatantly factual about all the negatives he brought to the situation too … it wasn’t biased or slander. Just factual, honestly. He’s off his hinges with his level of salt. Same level of pouty bitchiness he displayed with the Kukoc play in the ECSF game.

Speaking to the choir

[97 bulls]

Because I don't look at it the same way. If you feel that way, then you just feel that way.

In terms of Jordan explores, what do you think what was going to happen? Of course it's going to be like that. MJ is the star. It was MJ show. You would have to dig deep to get into the details about it if you want more. But even then it's all center by MJ. Same thing with most of these sports documentaries. In fact, I was surprise how much it went into the other guys. But of course, it was more center around MJ. It happens all the time with the Bulls documentaries. If you go the Jackson Five, they going to go around Michael Jackson more so than Tito lol. Even if Michael joined later. In this case, it was MJ who joined first. In very similar way it would do with a Celts documentary that talk about the 80s as well as a showtime documentary. They gonn'a focus on the Magic or Bird more so than anyone else. They are the superstars.

Hardly anyone talks about how good Cedric Maxwell was in detail in the finals. Or how good Tiny was. They talk about Bird.

Like I said, I expect the exact same thing when LeBron type of documentary in his teams. Even if big three of the Miami Heat, they are gonn'a focus on LeBron.

And if they ever do a documentary again of Kobe post Shaq, they ain't talk about Pau Gasol as much they gonn'a highlight Kobe stuff. Even if they do label it Lakers 08-10 or whatever, it's going to be about Kobe mostly.

Same thing here. They ain't gonn'a talk about how vital Grant was in those early 3 peats as much Pippen. And they ain't talk about Pippen as much MJ. MJ just got a bunch of iconic moments that ppl remember by. Tho they did talk about how much MJ gott'a pass the ball and trust in his teammates. He can't do everything about by himself.

But even then, they don't really go into details. They highlight Pippen defense on Magic for a moment, they didn't talk about MJ defense. And they completely ignore the help defense they had on Magic. Cliff Levingston got no love. They didn't talk about how Paxson on fire that series. They didn't even talk about MJ's game tying shot. They don't talk about either defense on Clyde. They didn't talk about defense on Penny. Reggie. They didn't really talk about the Jordan rules as much, they didn't talk about Tex Winter as much, they didn't talk about Ron Harper defensive prowess and how much he was underrated, I don't remember if they talk about the cocaine problems that they had prior to the champ runs, they didn't talk about how Will Purdue was a fan favorite, and etc etc.

But again, it's not like what was presented was wrong. I didn't even take it as a negative. It was more unfortunate that Pippen was kind'a screwed. But I didn't think they showed in bad light. And it's not that they didn't give him his props. They did. But they aren't going show all that. Of course not. But they did more in this documentary than any other documentaries that I seen about the Bulls. This talk more about Krause and the relationship than anything.

Do I think they could discuss more? Yeah. My point is, it wasn't anything to be that mad over imo. All of this stuff was said before. Obviously, Pippen doesn't feel that way.Perhaps if MJ told Pippen if he was gonn'a make him look good behind close doors, and Pippen didn't see the end product lol. I don't think the casuals care as much. I don't think it helps or hurt Pippen's legacy.

But if someone is mad that the doc is MJ focus, then I don't know what to tell'em. The truth is, the mids 80s to 90s Bulls was MJ and then everyone else. That's the pecking the order. Without MJ, there wouldn't be a doc. Of course he is gonn'a get the spotlight. That's how it works for everything b-ball. Like if you disagree with it and feel there needs more, then that's fine. I won't argue. But that's the way it goes. From books to the docs to these forums. It's MJ. You would have to go to other sources to get material or just watch the games yourself. As I said before, this doc better job than the other docs, but it doesn't show the whole the picture into details.

I've never seen a documentary about a sports franchise that centered so much around one player as far as contributions, but focused so much on the failures of the teammates. I mean more time was spent talking about Pippen sitting out that 1.8 seconds than, and his being arrested etc than what he succeeded at.

But again. Find a documentary of any Championship NBA team and hell yes the key players successes are gonna be mentioned. And most documentaries are an hour? Maybe 2? This one was 10 hours lol. More time was spent watching Jordan and Randy Brown pitch quarters in the back than acknowledging what the Bulls actually did.

And it's not just me saying this. All of Jordan's teammates EVERY ONE, said the Last Dance failed to really show the Bulls. It showed Jordan greatness, and justified his failures.

Michael Jordan's exploits have been beat to death
I actually wanted to see more from his teammates.

[BigShotBob]

I've never seen a documentary about a sports franchise that centered so much around one player as far as contributions, but focused so much on the failures of the teammates. I mean more time was spent talking about Pippen sitting out that 1.8 seconds than, and his being arrested etc than what he succeeded at.

But again. Find a documentary of any Championship NBA team and hell yes the key players successes are gonna be mentioned. And most documentaries are an hour? Maybe 2? This one was 10 hours lol. More time was spent watching Jordan and Randy Brown pitch quarters in the back than acknowledging what the Bulls actually did.

And it's not just me saying this. All of Jordan's teammates EVERY ONE, said the Last Dance failed to really show the Bulls. It showed Jordan greatness, and justified his failures.

Michael Jordan's exploits have been beat to death
I actually wanted to see more from his teammates.

Jordan's failures were shown too. How many failures from Pippen, Grant, and his other teammates should we show? It goes both ways.

[Micku]

I've never seen a documentary about a sports franchise that centered so much around one player as far as contributions, but focused so much on the failures of the teammates. I mean more time was spent talking about Pippen sitting out that 1.8 seconds than, and his being arrested etc than what he succeeded at.

But again. Find a documentary of any Championship NBA team and hell yes the key players successes are gonna be mentioned. And most documentaries are an hour? Maybe 2? This one was 10 hours lol. More time was spent watching Jordan and Randy Brown pitch quarters in the back than acknowledging what the Bulls actually did.

And it's not just me saying this. All of Jordan's teammates EVERY ONE, said the Last Dance failed to really show the Bulls. It showed Jordan greatness, and justified his failures.

Michael Jordan's exploits have been beat to death
I actually wanted to see more from his teammates.

You right about that. The teammates were mad about it. Although I don't really see it as any different from the other Bulls documentaries other than the production was amazing.

And I agree with you. That I want to see more from the teammates. But I also want to see more details analysis as well. You usually never get that from docs or even sports analysis on tv. Like the only one who discuss in detail like that is Kobe in his Detailed series. What I would like, is have the players watch whatever game, tell us what they were thinking, their plan, and what they did to execute it. As well as some of the other stuff that comes with a doc like The Last Dance.

But I still expect MJ to be the main dude of course.

I remember Karl Malone didn't want to do The Last Dance cuz he didn't want to just talk about MJ or something.

And I'm sure you checked out other documentaries before, right? There are some Lakers docs of the 00s that were just about Kobe. At least post Shaq. When Shaq was there, Kobe and Shaq shared that role. They hardly talk about the others tho.

I remember watching a Pacers vs Knicks rivalry documentary. It was more how Reggie killed those guys and Spike Lee eating his own words.

There have been LeBron docs, but I haven't seen'em.

I think the only doc of a team that just more than one dude was probably the dream team doc. While MJ was still the man, it covered almost everybody.

[97 bulls]

Jordan's failures were shown too. How many failures from Pippen, Grant, and his other teammates should we show? It goes both ways.

Jordan got to explain away every one of his failures. Or be omitted them completely. Why not talk about when he pouted and stop shooting the ball in 90? He talked about fighting Kerr and Will Perdue, why not talk about the incident with Bill Cartwright? If he didn't have an explanation for some of is low points he ignored them. But Pippen? Grant? I saw an interview where Pippen said much of what he stated about the 1.8 situation was edited out. Grant obviously didn't even know they were gonna talk about the dinner situation.

[97 bulls]

You right about that. The teammates were mad about it. Although I don't really see it as any different from the other Bulls documentaries other than the production was amazing.

And I agree with you. That I want to see more from the teammates. But I also want to see more details analysis as well. You usually never get that from docs or even sports analysis on tv. Like the only one who discuss in detail like that is Kobe in his Detailed series. What I would like, is have the players watch whatever game, tell us what they were thinking, their plan, and what they did to execute it. As well as some of the other stuff that comes with a doc like The Last Dance.

But I still expect MJ to be the main dude of course.

I remember Karl Malone didn't want to do The Last Dance cuz he didn't want to just talk about MJ or something.

And I'm sure you checked out other documentaries before, right? There are some Lakers docs of the 00s that were just about Kobe. At least post Shaq. When Shaq was there, Kobe and Shaq shared that role. They hardly talk about the others tho.

I remember watching a Pacers vs Knicks rivalry documentary. It was more how Reggie killed those guys and Spike Lee eating his own words.

There have been LeBron docs, but I haven't seen'em.

I think the only doc of a team that just more than one dude was probably the dream team doc. While MJ was still the man, it covered almost everybody.

I have no problem with Jordan being the focus. I have a problem with how he threw his teammates under the bus. And they didn't get to really explain their side.

[LAL]

I have no problem with Jordan being the focus. I have a problem with how he threw his teammates under the bus. And they didn't get to really explain their side.

Useless guy. We know your agenda. Give it a rest.