Kobe vs Wilt in game sevens and elimination games.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt played in nine game sevens throughout his career and his teams went 4-5 in those games.

He also averaged 24.4 ppg, 26.7 rpg, 4.1 APG, 8.6 BPG, .62.6 FG%, .45.1 FT%, and a .57.9 TS%. BTW, that .62.6 FG% is easily the highest of a "GOAT" candidate.



Now Kobe over a span of 6 game sevens in his career averaged


22.2 points, eight rebounds, five assists, one steal and 1.3 blocks on 38.9 percent shooting.



Now In elimination games


Wilt averaged 31.1 PPG 25.7 RPG 3.5 APG 10.2 blocks on a TS percentage of 54.2 and his teams went 12-11 in those games.





As for Kobe, he averaged 22.3 PPG 5.8 RPG 3.5 APG 1.3 SPG 1.3 BPG on a 50.3 TS and his teams went 9-10 in those games.

[SouBeachTalents]

Not a surprise, Kobe's the worst elimination game performer of the top 10-12 players all time. Also the worst Finals performer

[coastalmarker99]

It's funny when you look at the stats between the two in the playoffs how Wilt gets judged by the general public as a choker and Kobe gets judged as a clutch god despite the fact that he often played terrible in big games.

[Carbine]

Can't compare numbers from 40 years apart. Completely different games.

Compare Kobe's numbers to his peers, not someone like Wilt.

[coastalmarker99]

Not a surprise, Kobe's the worst elimination game performer of the top 10-12 players. And the worst Finals performer



It is kind of shocking to me when you look at Kobe's stats in elimination games how badly he usually underperformed despite his status as a so called clutch god.




Wilt is in the same tier as Jordan and Lebron when it comes to being an elimination game performer along with being a game seven performer.


And yet he gets judged as a choker by most people despite the fact that he lost 4 game sevens to the Celtics by a combined margin of 9 points.

[coastalmarker99]

I challenge you James to find a Kobe playoff run that is better than Wilt's 1967 playoff run in which he averaged

21.7 PTS 29.1 REBS 9.0 ASTS 9.2 BLKS FG% 57.9 on route to a title and yet you call him a glorified Draymond Green.

[j3lademaster]

I challenge you James to find a Kobe playoff run that is better than Wilt's 1967 playoff run in which he averaged

21.7 PTS 29.1 REBS 9.0 ASTS 9.2 BLKS FG% 57.9 on route to a title and yet you call him a glorified Draymond Green.Averaging a quadruple double pretty much while shooting 58% while getting roughly 70% of an entire team's rebound avg... these numbers blow everyone's out of the water: MJ, Lebron, Kobe.

[coastalmarker99]

Averaging a quadruple double pretty much while shooting 58% while getting roughly 70% of an entire team's rebound avg... these numbers blow everyone's out of the water: MJ, Lebron, Kobe.

Hell in the 1968 playoffs against New York with two hall of fame centers in Reed and Walt here are Wilt's stats.


GAME 1 37 PTS 29 REBS 7 ASTS 10 BLKS

GAME 2 24 PTS 17 REBS 8 ASTS 12 BLKS
GAME 3 18 PTS 24 REBS 8 ASTS 11 BLKS

GAME 4 23 PTS 27 REBS 5 ASTS 6 BLKS

GAME 5 26 PTS 21 REBS 7 ASTS 14 BLKS
GAME 6 25 PTS 27 REBS 3 ASTS 10 BLKS

CONFERENCE PLAYOFF AVERAGE vs New York 25.5 PTS 24.1 REBS 6.3 ASTS 10.5 BLKS

[ImKobe]

Game 7 vs Portland
Game 6 & 7 vs Kings
Game 6 vs Boston
Game 5 vs OKC

:no:

Kobe's elimination game averages are heavily skewed because he wasn't in a 1st option role his first 3-4 seasons in the league, so his ppg average gets ruined here.

[SouBeachTalents]

Game 7 vs Portland
Game 6 & 7 vs Kings
Game 6 vs Boston
Game 5 vs OKC

:no:

Kobe's elimination game averages are heavily skewed because he wasn't in a 1st option role his first 3-4 seasons in the league, so his ppg average gets ruined here.
He had several absolutely atrocious performances

Game 6 in '03
Game 5 in '04
Game 7 in '06
Game 6 in '08
Game 7 in '10
Game 4 in '11

All of them absolute horseshit, and the funniest part is outside of 2010 his team got completely destroyed in all of them :lol

[TheCorporation]

Not a surprise, Kobe's the worst elimination game performer of the top 10-12 players all time. Also the worst Finals performer

Why type the "10-" you had it right at 12.

[TheCorporation]

Game 7 vs Portland
Game 6 & 7 vs Kings
Game 6 vs Boston
Game 5 vs OKC

:no:

Kobe's elimination game averages are heavily skewed because he wasn't in a 1st option role his first 3-4 seasons in the league, so his ppg average gets ruined here.

Absolutely wrong. If we just look at Kobe's last three game 7s where he was the clear cut #1 option it isn't pretty. He scored:

• 14 on 33%
• 23 on 25%
• 17 on 44%

He's a great top 12-15 players but he just doesn't have it when you compare him to the all-time greats. He's still good, put him in that Dirk, KD, Malone, Kawhi, Chris Paul tier.

[ImKobe]

He had several absolutely atrocious performances

Game 6 in '03
Game 5 in '04
Game 7 in '06
Game 6 in '08
Game 7 in '10
Game 4 in '11

All of them absolute horseshit, and the funniest part is outside of 2010 his team got completely destroyed in all of them :lol

Most of the games you listed are huge blowouts where he did not attempt that many shots.

[coastalmarker99]

Most of the games you listed are huge blowouts where he did not attempt that many shots.

It's his fault for the blowouts losses as if he had shown up as he was supposed to then maybe those games wouldn't have ended up being blowouts.

[coastalmarker99]

He had several absolutely atrocious performances

Game 6 in '03
Game 5 in '04
Game 7 in '06
Game 6 in '08
Game 7 in '10
Game 4 in '11

All of them absolute horseshit, and the funniest part is outside of 2010 his team got completely destroyed in all of them :lol


Yeah, when Kobe lost in Elimination games he usually along with the Lakers got their asses kicked.

[ImKobe]

It's his fault for the blowouts losses as if he had shown up as he was supposed to then maybe those games wouldn't have ended up being blowouts.

No it's not. Rockets one was a blowout win for the Lakers, he barely played 30 mins and took 12 FGA I believe, the Pistons one they were down 20+ on the road, same with the Suns game, where they were down big despite his efficient 20 in the 1st half, huge blowouts against the Celtics and Mavs, where his opponents made every 3.

[coastalmarker99]

Absolutely wrong. If we just look at Kobe's last three game 7s where he was the clear cut #1 option it isn't pretty. He scored:

• 14 on 33%
• 23 on 25%
• 17 on 44%

He's a great top 12-15 players but he just doesn't have it when you compare him to the all-time greats. He's still good, put him in that Dirk, KD, Malone, Kawhi, Chris Paul tier.


That is three awful performances in a row and yet somehow he still along with the Lakers managed to win most of those game sevens.




Also, I disagree with your bottom take through as Kobe is better than all those players you listed.



Malone was a flat out choker that usually declined in the playoffs case in point the 1997 finals where Pippen got into his head at the foul line in game 1 of that series.


CP3 has a history of being a choker.


Dirk also had a history of choking.


KD hopped on to a 73 and 9 team and his 2 rings and finals Mvps are nowhere near as impressive as Kobe's in 2009 and 2010.



Kawhi can barely manage to stay healthy despite being load managed all the time.

[coastalmarker99]

While I do personally think Kobe is a little bit overrated to put him in the same tier as Karl Malone is flat-out disrespectful to Kobe's status as an all-time great



As here are Kobe's career highlights and awards



5× NBA champion (2000–2002, 2009, 2010)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2009, 2010)
NBA Most Valuable Player (2008)
18× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2016)
4× NBA All-Star Game MVP (2002, 2007, 2009, 2011)
11× All-NBA First Team (2002–2004, 2006–2013)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2000, 2001)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1999, 2005)
9× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2000, 2003, 2004, 2006–2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2001, 2002, 2012)
2× NBA scoring champion (2006, 2007)



Also without that Achilles injury, he suffered in 2013 when he was playing one of the greatest seasons of his career all of Kobe's longevity stats would have been better than Malone's.


Basically in the 15 seasons in which he wasn't coming off the bench or injured.


Kobe put up


33,643 points
7,047 rebounds
6,306 assists




And if you think that he would have kept scoring 23 to 25 or 27 points per game from 2014 to 2016 then Kobe would have added another 4860 points to his career total which would put him just first above Kareem on the all-time scoring list.

[LAL]

He had several absolutely atrocious performances

Game 6 in '03
Game 5 in '04
Game 7 in '06
Game 6 in '08
Game 7 in '10
Game 4 in '11

All of them absolute horseshit, and the funniest part is outside of 2010 his team got completely destroyed in all of them :lol

Lebron doesn't allow himself to have bad shooting night by playing like a coward. Needs shooters and shot creators, who care less about fg% or hiding weaknesses. Kobe played a different ball game, ofcourse he has bad shooting nights you nerd. He probably looked more useful than a lot of these fake great games on paper looking all safe, sharing and frontrunning in transition.

[getting_old]

It's funny when you look at the stats between the two in the playoffs how Wilt gets judged by the general public as a choker and Kobe gets judged as a clutch god despite the fact that he often played terrible in big games.

Wilt insisted on talking to the media and griping and letting us know about his psychodramas

it would have been okay if he had any public relations charm or wit or ability, it was painfully awful to watch

and then he lost when his team wasn't 30 points better, 29 wasn't even good enough for him

[Manny98]

14 points in a game 7 whilst going 6-15 from the free throw line :roll::facepalm

Any superstar today would get absolutely torn to pieces if they played like that in a game 7

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196804190PHI.html

Year later once again chokes in game 7 vs Boston, scoring only 18 points and going 4-13 from the line

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196905050LAL.html

Wilt is the biggest.choker out of everyone in the top 20 and it's not even close

[coastalmarker99]

14 points in a game 7 whilst going 6-15 from the free throw line :roll::facepalm

Any superstar today would get absolutely torn to pieces if they played like that in a game 7

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196804190PHI.html

Year later once again chokes in game 7 vs Boston, scoring only 18 points and going 4-13 from the line

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196905050LAL.html

Wilt is the biggest.choker out of everyone in the top 20 and it's not even close



14 points along with 34 rebounds and 5 assists plus 12 blocks in a Game 7 is not choking plus Wilt was injured in 1968 which provides context on why he lost against the Celtics that season.



And 18 points and 27 rebounds a year later along with 10 blocks on 90 percent shooting in a game seven is also not choking.


As for the game, Chamberlain, playing 43 minutes to Russell's 48, outscored Russell, 18-6; outshot Russell, 7-8 to 2-7 from the field; outscored Russell from the line, 4-2; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21 plus out-blocked him 10 to 5.

Subtract Russell's 2-7 from the field, and Chamberlain's 7-8 from the floor and Russell's teammates outshot Wilt's from the field by a ...get this... .47.7 to .36.0 margin....in a two-point win!

[coastalmarker99]

14 points in a game 7 whilst going 6-15 from the free throw line :roll::facepalm

Any superstar today would get absolutely torn to pieces if they played like that in a game 7

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196804190PHI.html

Year later once again chokes in game 7 vs Boston, scoring only 18 points and going 4-13 from the line

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/196905050LAL.html

Wilt is the biggest.choker out of everyone in the top 20 and it's not even close


I look back at my career...and there were five 7th games in playoff series.


Five times I lost four of them by a total of nine points. Now think about that. Nine points going the other way, and I might have had four or five more championship rings. So I sometimes get a little frustrated when I hear people talk about, "Yeah, well you only won two Wilt." I could have won seven, but I've been the same player.

When (John) Paxson goes out and shoots a 3-point shot that wins the game for Chicago (in 1993), no one takes anything away from Jordan because he just won the championship. But if Paxson missed that shot, they would have lost that championship. Well, that has happened to me five times... and that's frustrating.

You know you're playing as well as those guys who won. I remember one series exactly: I scored the last ten points, we were behind, within one, with a few seconds to go.

And one of the other guys on my team threw the ball inbounds and it's the famous, "Havlicek stole the ball!" It was just one of those things that happened. The ball slips out of his hand, he throws it right to Havlicek, and we lose a game that we could have won.

It was the seventh game so you know that you had the ability, but the end result was that we lost. And that's the way it goes.

The worst was in 1968 when I was playing with the 76ers and we lost to the Celtics in the famous 7th game and they blamed me for not shooting the ball because I only took two shots in the second half. Well, during those years, I was passing off a lot. I won the assist title.

The Celtics were smart, they put all four guys on me and let the rest of the guys shoot. Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer, Chet Walker and Wali Jones -- all fantastic shots -- had a bad, bad day. 8-for-24, 8-for-25 and 8-for-22 and I am giving them the ball.

So when the game is over people say, "Why didn't you shoot, Wilt?" Well, I got four guys on me and here are four of the best shooters in NBA history -- we had just won 62 games that year -- but they were missing that night.

I was accused of not doing my job, not putting the ball in the basket, even though I had 34 rebounds, 12 blocked shots to go along with 14 points for the game.

But because I only took two shots in the second half, I get blamed for the loss. I think that sometimes that's a little bit unfair.

[Gohan]

I look back at my career...and there were five 7th games in playoff series.


Five times I lost four of them by a total of nine points. Now think about that. Nine points going the other way, and I might have had four or five more championship rings. So I sometimes get a little frustrated when I hear people talk about, "Yeah, well you only won two Wilt." I could have won seven, but I've been the same player.

When (John) Paxson goes out and shoots a 3-point shot that wins the game for Chicago (in 1993), no one takes anything away from Jordan because he just won the championship. But if Paxson missed that shot, they would have lost that championship. Well, that has happened to me five times... and that's frustrating.

You know you're playing as well as those guys who won. I remember one series exactly: I scored the last ten points, we were behind, within one, with a few seconds to go.

And one of the other guys on my team threw the ball inbounds and it's the famous, "Havlicek stole the ball!" It was just one of those things that happened. The ball slips out of his hand, he throws it right to Havlicek, and we lose a game that we could have won.

It was the seventh game so you know that you had the ability, but the end result was that we lost. And that's the way it goes.

The worst was in 1968 when I was playing with the 76ers and we lost to the Celtics in the famous 7th game and they blamed me for not shooting the ball because I only took two shots in the second half. Well, during those years, I was passing off a lot. I won the assist title.

The Celtics were smart, they put all four guys on me and let the rest of the guys shoot. Billy Cunningham, Hal Greer, Chet Walker and Wali Jones -- all fantastic shots -- had a bad, bad day. 8-for-24, 8-for-25 and 8-for-22 and I am giving them the ball.

So when the game is over people say, "Why didn't you shoot, Wilt?" Well, I got four guys on me and here are four of the best shooters in NBA history -- we had just won 62 games that year -- but they were missing that night.

I was accused of not doing my job, not putting the ball in the basket, even though I had 34 rebounds, 12 blocked shots to go along with 14 points for the game.

But because I only took two shots in the second half, I get blamed for the loss. I think that sometimes that's a little bit unfair.

basically this is the ether for wilt haters :cheers:

[coastalmarker99]

basically this is the ether for wilt haters :cheers:

Just with better luck in his career Wilt could have seriously won 5 to 8 championships

60 Wilt hurts his hand after punching Tommy in game 2 which seriously affected him in games 3 and 4 and he was also was a Tommy game-winner away from taking them to seven despite his injury.

‘62 - Gola who is arguably the 2nd best player is injured against Boston and they lose in Game 7 by 2 points of a Sam Jones game-winner.

‘65 - Costello is injured against Boston and they lose in Game 7 by 1 point due to Havlicek stealing the ball.


‘68 - Cunningham out and basically the entire 76ers team including Wilt all played through injuries otherwise they would have easily steamrolled their way to back to back titles.

‘69 - West played with a hamstring and calf injury which limited his ability to defend how he normally does. Wilt gets injured late and they lose in Game 7 by 2 points

‘70 - Happy Hairston who was arguably the 3rd most important player after Wilt/West missed the playoffs and they lose in Game 7.

‘73 - Hairston out once again, West is playing with another hamstring injury and West also mentions in his autobiography that McMillan was playing through an injury as well.

That 73 Lakers team was clearly beaten up pretty bad and they lost a lot of close Finals games.



Wilt is most likely the most unlucky player in the top ten of all time as if you redo his career over then he most likely wins 4 to 5 rings instead of the 2 that he ended up with.