How would have the last years of Kobe's career gone without his Achilles injury.

[coastalmarker99]

In the last, fully healthy season of his career in the 2012 -2013 season Kobe averaged 27.3 points per game and looked physically better than he was in prior years.



So that raises the question of how good the last years of Kobe's career would have been if he never suffered that Achilles injury.



If he manages to stay effective in his late 30's as Malone and Kareem did.



Does he end up breaking Kareem's all-time scoring record especially if he decides to play on after the 2015-2016 season and keep playing in the NBA until he was 39 or 40 as Jordan did?

[coastalmarker99]

In 2013 It looked very doable for Kobe to become the all-time scorer if he could stay healthy and play another 300 games (about 4 seasons) and average around 23-24 points overall.


As If Dwight leaves for nothing and Kobe doesn't blow out his Achilles one has to think he's averaging close to 30 the next year because he wouldn't have had anyone to pass it to.




His scoring was insane in the first half of the '13 season when half the team was injured and the Lakers were starting G-leaguers. It most likely would have been more of that to end his career as the all-time leading scorer.

If Kobe had actually become the all-time leading scorer in NBA history along with the far better longevity he would have had as a player as a result of not suffering his Achilles injury.


Would that have been just enough for people to put him in the top ten of all time today?

[ImKobe]

He'd have broken the all-time scoring record and he would have passed MJ in Playoffs scoring too. He was capable of averaging more than 27 a game that year, but he had to assume the PG role because of injuries, he was over 29 ppg the first half of the season as a SG and then averaged 25/6/8 in the PG role for the last 36 games of his season, he also had the ankle injury when Dahntay Jones injured him on purpose and I believe that led to his achilles rupture.

He's easily top 10 all-time with his resume (5 rings, 18x All-Star, 15x All-NBA, 12x All-Defense, top 4 RS & Playoffs scoring all-time), but analytics nerds for some reason don't give him any respect, even though he's the only player besides 1st 3-Peat Jordan to carry as big of a scoring load (9-10+ more pts than the 2nd option on the team) while also running the offense on multiple title teams and he was among the best in Playoffs clutch scoring and RAPM and all that in the years he won championships.

[coastalmarker99]

He'd have broken the all-time scoring record and he would have passed MJ in Playoffs scoring too. He was capable of averaging more than 27 a game that year, but he had to assume the PG role because of injuries, he was over 29 ppg the first half of the season as a SG and then averaged 25/6/8 in the PG role for the last 36 games of his season, he also had the ankle injury when Dahntay Jones injured him on purpose and I believe that led to his achilles rupture.

He's easily top 10 all-time with his resume (5 rings, 18x All-Star, 15x All-NBA, 12x All-Defense, top 4 RS & Playoffs scoring all-time), but analytics nerds for some reason don't give him any respect, even though he's the only player besides 1st 3-Peat Jordan to carry as big of a scoring load (9-10+ more pts than the 2nd option on the team) while also running the offense on multiple title teams and he was among the best in Playoffs clutch scoring and RAPM and all that in the years he won championships.


It is laughable that Real GM ranked Garnett over Kobe all-time As Kobe eclipses his career in every single way and is ranked above him all time by every single media outlet and basketball website outside of Real GM in which Garnett is viewed as a God for some strange reason.



When Kobe was fully healthy he was able to carry trash rosters to the playoffs in 2006 and 2007 and take better teams to seven games while Garnett was missing the playoffs every single year in his prime outside of 2004.

[ImKobe]

It is laughable that Real GM ranked Garnett over Kobe all-time As Kobe eclipses his career in every single way and is ranked above him all time by every single media outlet and basketball website outside of Real GM in which Garnett is viewed as a God for some strange reason.

That's a thing? I haven't really visited that site since the early 2010s, it used to be loaded with weird cRaptors fans and Lebron apologists. KG was a great player, but the gap between him and Kobe offensively is so wide that there's no way anyone would realistically even have that conversation, but I'm sure the same stat nerds who made the Rudy Gobert MVP :kobe: case would argue otherwise.

[coastalmarker99]

That's a thing? I haven't really visited that site since the early 2010s, it used to be loaded with weird cRaptors fans and Lebron apologists. KG was a great player, but the gap between him and Kobe offensively is so wide that there's no way anyone would realistically even have that conversation, but I'm sure the same stat nerds who made the Rudy Gobert MVP :kobe: case would argue otherwise.


Yeah, it is and it makes me sick how overrated Kg is on that site as they ranked him 11th all-time and Kobe 12th all time.



Kobe would have been disgusting in his twilight years without his Achilles injury as his postgame was so nasty in 2013 lol. He seriously looked like Olajuwon with how he was destroying people down low.



Plus scoring got easier past 2013 so he would play more in the post and shoot more 3s so that along with free throws would get him to around 20 to 22 PPG even at age 40.

[ImKobe]

Yep. As far as the KG thing goes, he missed the Playoffs 3 years in a row in the middle of his damn prime and he was healthy all those years and had Spree and Wally in '05. Kobe's teams lacked talent on both ends but his elite scoring still had them in the top 10 offensively and he didn't need to team up with two HOFers in their primes in order to win championships, he got one fringe all-star who was 0 - 12 in the Playoffs and he was right there with KG in the Finals.

[coastalmarker99]

Yep. As far as the KG thing goes, he missed the Playoffs 3 years in a row in the middle of his damn prime and he was healthy all those years and had Spree and Wally in '05. Kobe's teams lacked talent on both ends but his elite scoring still had them in the top 10 offensively and he didn't need to team up with two HOFers in their primes in order to win championships, he got one fringe all-star who was 0 - 12 in the Playoffs and he was right there with KG in the Finals.

Lol, they locked my thread on Real Gm about Kobe being clearly better than KG alltime lmao.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2099069



Everything we have both stated in this thread about Kobe is pure facts and the analytics nerds cant take it on Real GM :lol

[StrongLurk]

Kobe's body was breaking down even before the achilles injury...he would've had a few good more years for sure but wouldn't be a superstar anymore by the 14/15 season...definitely a shame that his career ended like it did regardless of hypotheticals.

[ImKobe]

Lol, they locked my thread on Real Gm about Kobe being clearly better than KG alltime lmao.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2099069



Everything we have both stated in this thread about Kobe is pure facts and the analytics nerds cant take it on Real GM :lol

And of course one of the replies is a Shaq fan that thinks Kobe's 22nd all-time. Horrible.

[coastalmarker99]

And of course one of the replies is a Shaq fan that thinks Kobe's 22nd all-time. Horrible.


WTF how the hell can anyone seriously especially a Shaq fan rank Kobe that low when the Lakers don't get that three-peat at all.



If Kobe does not bail out Shaq in game seven of the 2000 WCF or play out of his mind in the 2001 playoffs in which he was the Lakers best player throughout the first 3 rounds of the playoff run.





In fact, Shaq screwed Kobe in the 2002-2003 season when the Lakers were trying to go for a four-peat by showing up out of shape.




And he also waited the whole summer until just before training camp for toe surgery which ruled him out of the Lakers first 12 games and as he selfishly explained, "I got hurt on company time, so I'll heal on company time.

[coastalmarker99]

And of course one of the replies is a Shaq fan that thinks Kobe's 22nd all-time. Horrible.


Shaq feasted on the worst center competition I have ever seen in the finals for ATG as outside of 2001 every center he was faced was complete trash in the finals.



That's not to say that he wasn't awesome in those three finals he was but had he been playing against someone like Hakeem.


He wouldn't have been averaging finals numbers such as 38 and 16 plus 3 blocks on 61 percent shooting on his head.

[MadDog]

Idk what happens to Kobe's career, overall, but that season definitely plays out different. The Lakers would've likely made the finals, and from there anything could have happened. The Lakers were slowly gelling before the playoffs, winning something like 8 of their last 10. Kobe's injury derailed their shot.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Great question, nobody knows. Lakers were not the same after Phil Jackson and Lamar Odom left them in 2011 though. Odom was kind of a cancer anywhere else he went but under Kobe/Phil he thrived as a broke man's Scottie pippen type player.

Kobe's ten year prime from 2000-2010 can pretty much hold up with anybody. His longevity kind of sucks though, nobody really remembers anything he did after 2010.

[MadDog]

Great question, nobody knows. Lakers were not the same after Phil Jackson and Lamar Odom left them in 2011 though. Odom was kind of a cancer anywhere else he went but under Kobe/Phil he thrived as a broke man's Scottie pippen type player.

Kobe's ten year prime from 2000-2010 can pretty much hold up with anybody. His longevity kind of sucks though, nobody really remembers anything he did after 2010.

From 2011-2013, Kobe averaged 27/5/5 on 45/32/84. His longevity was actually pretty good. Its just that LeBron peaked then, and guys like Dirk\Wade\Durant\Paul were really good. Clippers, OKC and Miami were also more relevant.

[Ca$H]

In the last, fully healthy season of his career in the 2012 -2013 season Kobe averaged 27.3 points per game and looked physically better than he was in prior years.



So that raises the question of how good the last years of Kobe's career would have been if he never suffered that Achilles injury.



If he manages to stay effective in his late 30's as Malone and Kareem did.



Does he end up breaking Kareem's all-time scoring record especially if he decides to play on after the 2015-2016 season and keep playing in the NBA until he was 39 or 40 as Jordan did?

Maybe he would have still been playing and avoided the fatal helicopter crash. Kobe, Bran, and AD. :cry:

[pegasus]

Maybe he would have still been playing and avoided the fatal helicopter crash. Kobe, Bran, and AD. :cry:

That's how I feel, but I go back further than the injury. Had Stern not vetoed the CP3 trade, the Lakers would have had a much better team and Kobe wouldn't have had to play insane amount of minutes to literally will his team into the playoffs in the second half of the season, rupturing his Achilles in the process. He could have stayed healthy, perhaps even win another ring, play several more seasons, and all of that could have resulted in that fateful day playing out differently.

[ImKobe]

Great question, nobody knows. Lakers were not the same after Phil Jackson and Lamar Odom left them in 2011 though. Odom was kind of a cancer anywhere else he went but under Kobe/Phil he thrived as a broke man's Scottie pippen type player.

Kobe's ten year prime from 2000-2010 can pretty much hold up with anybody. His longevity kind of sucks though, nobody really remembers anything he did after 2010.

Kobe was All-NBA 1st team and a top 5 MVP candidate in his 17th season while averaging 27/6/6 on 57%TS on a team with no bench/D-Leaguers & Dwight Howard, his run towards the end of the season was ****ing incredible. In his last full healthy game, he put up 47/8/5 3 stls 4 blks against Portland while playing all 48 minutes, literally every game in April felt like elimination as the Lakers had to be near-perfect post-ASB to make the Playoffs, I believe they finished with one of the 3 best records in the league in the 2nd half of the season, once the team got a little healthier and Kobe changed up his game to play from the post and to also run the offense full-time.

https://www.nba.com/resources/static/team/v2/lakers/images/press/130415_bryant_player_week/130415_bryant_player_week_670x670.jpg

This notion that Kobe had poor longevity is just false, he wasn't called "Vino" for no reason, him and Lebron are the only players who looked that great in their 17th seasons, you can make a small argument for Karl Malone and Kareem, but they weren't constantly carrying such a huge load for their teams as Kobe and Lebron did. Let's not forget that Kobe in his 16th year could have won the scoring title over KD as well (Kobe averaged 27.9, KD 28.0), but opted to sit out the last game of the season instead of chasing that accolade. He needed 30 something against a terrible Kings' team in order to win it, so it was his scoring title to lose.

[coastalmarker99]

Kobe was All-NBA 1st team and a top 5 MVP candidate in his 17th season while averaging 27/6/6 on 57%TS on a team with no bench/D-Leaguers & Dwight Howard, his run towards the end of the season was ****ing incredible. In his last full healthy game, he put up 47/8/5 3 stls 4 blks against Portland while playing all 48 minutes, literally every game in April felt like elimination as the Lakers had to be near-perfect post-ASB to make the Playoffs, I believe they finished with one of the 3 best records in the league in the 2nd half of the season, once the team got a little healthier and Kobe changed up his game to play from the post and to also run the offense full-time.

https://www.nba.com/resources/static/team/v2/lakers/images/press/130415_bryant_player_week/130415_bryant_player_week_670x670.jpg

This notion that Kobe had poor longevity is just false, he wasn't called "Vino" for no reason, him and Lebron are the only players who looked that great in their 17th seasons, you can make a small argument for Karl Malone and Kareem, but they weren't constantly carrying such a huge load for their teams as Kobe and Lebron did. Let's not forget that Kobe in his 16th year could have won the scoring title over KD as well (Kobe averaged 27.9, KD 28.0), but opted to sit out the last game of the season instead of chasing that accolade. He needed 30 something against a terrible Kings' team in order to win it, so it was his scoring title to lose.



Kawhi won't even last 17 seasons in the NBA with how injury prone he is.



If you had given Kobe load management or Cp3 as he entered his twilight years then I think his longevity would have been even more outstanding than it already was.




The Lakers having CP3 could have allowed Kobe to play fewer minutes along with playing in the post full time instead of having to carry the ball up and play point guard in his 17th season.



That infamous trade being not allowed for CP3 basically ended Kobe's career along with Lamar's and set the Lakers back for almost a decade.

[ImKobe]

Kawhi won't even last 17 seasons in the NBA with how injury prone he is.



If you had given Kobe load management or Cp3 as he entered his twilight years then I think his longevity would have been even more outstanding than it already was.




The Lakers having CP3 could have allowed Kobe to play fewer minutes along with playing in the post full time instead of having to carry the ball up and play point guard in his 17th season.



That infamous trade being not allowed for CP3 basically ended Kobe's career along with Lamar's and set the Lakers back for almost a decade.

Not even that. If Nash and Blake didn't have significant injuries, Kobe's reduced to just a scorer and that would have been enough. I hate that Odom got traded for a pick and a TPE, if the Lakers just stood pat and didn't make any moves, they would have been much better for it. So many what-ifs man.

[ArbitraryWater]

8 championships, 7 finals mvp's, 3 mvp's

[coastalmarker99]

Not even that. If Nash and Blake didn't have significant injuries, Kobe's reduced to just a scorer and that would have been enough. I hate that Odom got traded for a pick and a TPE, if the Lakers just stood pat and didn't make any moves, they would have been much better for it. So many what-ifs man.



That CP3 trade is the biggest what if in Laker history besides Magic's early retirement as the two greatest Lakers ever basically had their careers cut short.



Magic was still effective even as an overweight 35-year-old in his last season when he returned and one has to wonder how the Lakers would have built around him after 1991.



If he had to never retire as if they got one of Barkley or Hakeem when both requested trades to pair alongside Magic then the entire 1990's changes.