I must confess.. I got all my Pippen stuff from this guy...

[3ba11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VTEz0j5UD0&t=421s


People say that Pippen was a great "fit" for Jordan because having a stiff like Pippen allowed/forced Jordan to do everything..

Wait a minute - how is that a good again?... :biggums:

He only averaged 5 assists and 21 assist percentage in the playoffs, with a peak of 7 apg in a series - so he was a pedestrian playmaker compared to elite guys like Jordan or Isiah Thomas, who had far better passing stats.

Ultimately, Pippen lacks a breakdown handle and isn't the kind of player a coach drew up plays for, so he wouldn't be a star perimeter player today.. MJ just carried him, while the winning spotlight elevated his resume/accolades.

[Gudo]

Watching pippen on offense is like watching marcus smart shoot threes. You have no confidence in the ball going in and you have to cringe a little bit.

[TheCorporation]

Watching pippen on offense is like watching marcus smart shoot threes. You have no confidence in the ball going in and you have to cringe a little bit.

And considering Pippen outscored nearly all of the opposition's #2 options, what you really meant to say was:

Watching Jordan's opponents on offense is like watching marcus smart shoot threes. You have no confidence in the ball going in and you have to cringe a little bit.

Congratulations, you played yourself.

[8Ball]

Jordan ball.

[97 bulls]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VTEz0j5UD0&t=421s


People say that Pippen was a great "fit" for Jordan because having a stiff like Pippen allowed/forced Jordan to do everything..

Wait a minute - how is that a good again?... :biggums:

He only averaged 5 assists and 21 assist percentage in the playoffs, with a peak of 7 apg in a series - so he was a pedestrian playmaker compared to elite guys like Jordan or Isiah Thomas, who had far better passing stats.

Ultimately, Pippen lacks a breakdown handle and isn't the kind of player a coach drew up plays for, so he wouldn't be a star perimeter player today.. MJ just carried him, while the winning spotlight elevated his resume/accolades.

You follow this guy? This guy is your God?

https://youtu.be/5qV4QBTxMqg

Notice the look on his face right at the end of the video as well.

[bison]

Scottie Pippen today would be a Kyle kuzma type player. Baffling how anyone could win a chip with kuzma as your second option, much less six chips.

[imdaman99]

Scottie Pippen today would be a Kyle kuzma type player. Baffling how anyone could win a chip with kuzma as your second option, much less six chips.

:lol yeah Ok. Kuzma has no IQ, Pip had plenty of that. Take it from me, I hate Jordan and I hate Pippen.

[Gudo]

And considering Pippen outscored nearly all of the opposition's #2 options, what you really meant to say was:

Watching Jordan's opponents on offense is like watching marcus smart shoot threes. You have no confidence in the ball going in and you have to cringe a little bit.

Congratulations, you played yourself.

Watch pippen play specially in the second 3peat playoffs. Whether in the post or outside, he cannot be your go-to guy. Shot 40% from the field.

[Airupthere]

:lol yeah Ok. Kuzma has no IQ, Pip had plenty of that. Take it from me, I hate Jordan and I hate Pippen.

Kuzma had the IQ to play defense and push lebron back to playing defense. Pippen quit on a crucial play in the playoffs.

[TheCorporation]

Watch pippen play specially in the second 3peat playoffs. Whether in the post or outside, he cannot be your go-to guy. Shot 40% from the field.

Whatever you say. And yet you wouldn't echo these sentiments about MJ's competition even when Pippen was outscoring nearly all of them? Pick a storyline and stick with it so which is it?

[theman93]

Whatever you say. And yet you wouldn't echo these sentiments about MJ's competition even when Pippen was outscoring nearly all of them? Pick a storyline and stick with it so which is it?

Pippen outscored them because Chicago's defense was otherworldly, not because Pippen was a great scorer.

[getting_old]

Scottie Pippen today would be a Kyle kuzma type player. Baffling how anyone could win a chip with kuzma as your second option, much less six chips.


it was that "triangle O" which basically wanted to dick around and let everyone touch the ball during a possession, but when it got to crunch time just give the ball to MJ or Kobe or Shaq and they will singlehandedly set up a great shot

didn't work well when MJ or Kobe or Shaq wasn't on the floor

[Shogon]

Scottie Pippen today would be a Kyle kuzma type player. Baffling how anyone could win a chip with kuzma as your second option, much less six chips.

Yep, one of the smartest players in NBA history would be like one of the dumbest players in NBA history if he played today.

Unreal.

It's actually ****ing insane just how stupid this post is and the brain behind it.

[3ba11]

Whatever you say. And yet you wouldn't echo these sentiments about MJ's competition even when Pippen was outscoring nearly all of them? Pick a storyline and stick with it so which is it?


Pippen was outscored every year:



89' 1st Round - Harper destroyed Pippen


89' ECF - Dumars destroyed Pippen


90' ECF - Dumars destroyed Pippen


1992 ECSF - X-man destroyed Pippen


1993 1st Round - Dominique and Willis destroyed Pippen


94' ECSF - Ewing destroyed Pippen


95' 1st Round - Larry Johnson destroyed Pippen


96' ECF - Penny destroyed Pippen


96' Finals - Kemp, Payton, Schrempf & Hawkins destroyed Pippen


97' 1st Round - Juwan Howard destroyed Pippen


98' ECF - Smits averaged 16.2 on 55% and Pippen 16.6 on 39%... advantage Smits


1999 1st Round - Kobe destroyed Pippen


2001-2003 - Everyone destroyed Pippen



So Pippen was horrible in the playoffs for every year of his career except 1991.. His choke in the 92' ECSF was particularly memorable because it nearly derailed the Bulls' repeat and caused MJ to stop another Pippen migraine in Game 7 by famously confronting Pippen's tormentor (X-man).

Furthermore, Pippen frequently outscored opponents by 0.4 points (or thereabouts), but shot 10 to 20% worse - see the 95' ECSF, 96' ECSF, 98' ECF, or many other series - Pippen had Iverson efficiency at Jeff Green scoring levels.

Finally, everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner in the playoffs for at least half their ring - heck, AD led the entire league in playoff scoring in 2020 - so outscoring the opposing sidekick is less than sidekicks that lead their team in scoring, or the league (2020 AD)

[3ba11]

Whatever you say. And yet you wouldn't echo these sentiments about MJ's competition even when Pippen was outscoring nearly all of them? Pick a storyline and stick with it so which is it?


Pippen was outscored every year:



89' 1st Round - Harper destroyed Pippen

89' ECF - Dumars destroyed Pippen

90' ECF - Dumars destroyed Pippen

1992 ECSF - X-man destroyed Pippen

1993 1st Round - Dominique and Willis destroyed Pippen

94' ECSF - Ewing destroyed Pippen

95' 1st Round - Larry Johnson destroyed Pippen

96' ECF - Penny destroyed Pippen

96' Finals - Kemp, Payton, Schrempf & Hawkins destroyed Pippen

97' 1st Round - Juwan Howard destroyed Pippen

98' ECF - Smits averaged 16.2 on 55% and Pippen 16.6 on 39%... advantage Smits

1999 1st Round - Kobe destroyed Pippen

2001-2003 - Everyone destroyed Pippen


So Pippen was horrible in the playoffs every year of his career except 1991.. His choke in the 92' ECSF was particularly memorable because it nearly derailed the Bulls' repeat and caused MJ to stop another Pippen migraine in Game 7 by famously confronting Pippen's tormentor (X-man).

Furthermore, Pippen frequently outscored opponents by 0.4 points (or thereabouts), but shot 10 to 20% worse - see the 95' ECSF, 96' ECSF, 98' ECF, or many other series - Pippen had Iverson efficiency at Jeff Green scoring levels.

Finally, everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner in the playoffs for at least half their ring - heck, AD led the entire league in playoff scoring in 2020 - so outscoring the opposing sidekick is less than the standard of sidekicks leading their team in scoring, or the league (2020 AD)

[TheCorporation]

So Pippen was a "bad scorer" that led all #2 options for 5 of 6 Bulls Finals, even outscoring the #1 option in 1 of them? That's all I need to know about the watered 90s. Thanks for your imploding contribution.

[TheCorporation]

See if you can make it through the next 4 sentences without losing your attention.

Pippen was frequently outscored by opposing 2nd options as posted previously.

And outscoring opposing 2nd options by 1 point with 20% less efficiency means that Pippen was outplayed.

Most importantly, outscoring the opposing 2nd option is below the standard of most winning 2nd options, who outscore the opposing 1st option or co-lead their team in scoring.. 13' Wade, 20' AD, and 16' Kyrie all outscored the opposing #1 option (AD led the entire league in playoff scoring).

Ultimately, Jordan won multiple Finals with Pippen averaging 15.7 on 40%, and Pippen averaged 19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals - that's the goat carry-job - no one else won with such little help


See if you can make it through the next 2 sentences without losing yours


So Pippen was a "bad scorer" that led all #2 options for 5 of 6 Bulls Finals, even outscoring the #1 option in 1 of them? That's all I need to know about the watered 90s thanks for your imploding contribution.

[Airupthere]

So Pippen was a "bad scorer" that led all #2 options for 5 of 6 Bulls Finals, even outscoring the #1 option in 1 of them? That's all I need to know about the watered 90s. Thanks for your imploding contribution.

If lebron had pippen as a teammate instead of AD, goodluck finding offense for the lakers if you are going to rely on pippen. Lol. Imagine pippen and lebron quitting at the same time. But that's fine though, they'll be buddies with teammates even after blowout losses. No pressure, it's just basketball. If pippen were the teammate of lebron and can't make a damn shot in the playoffs, imagine the kind of wrath the lebronstans will put on pippen. Lol

[3ba11]

So Pippen was a "bad scorer" that led all #2 options for 5 of 6 Bulls Finals, even outscoring the #1 option in 1 of them? That's all I need to know about the watered 90s. Thanks for your imploding contribution.


Pippen was outscored by opposing 2nd options in every playoffs despite mostly getting lucky in the Finals, and his poor efficiency confirmed his inferior scoring.

Most importantly, outscoring the opposing 2nd option is below the standard of most winning 2nd options, who outscore the opposing 1st option or co-lead their team in scoring.. 11' Wade, 13' Wade, 20' AD, and 16' Kyrie all outscored the opposing #1 option in the Finals (AD led the entire league in playoff scoring).

Ultimately, Jordan won multiple Finals with Pippen averaging 15.7 on 40%, and Pippen averaged 19.0 on 42% in 6 Finals - what other winning player doubled their sidekick's playoff scoring, AS A STANDARD?
.

[SouBeachTalents]

Where do you get your mental illness from?

[3ba11]

Where do you get your mental illness from?


Colin Cowherd's mental illness? It's his quotes, not mine

[3ba11]

I'm giving Colin another listen right now.... It's wonderful to hear people get back to how Pippen was routinely talked about in the 90's - a good defender with spotty scoring, aka defensive role player.

In the 90's, everything Colin said was COMMON KNOWLEDGE... So it's great to hear people get past the "6 rings doh" blindness on Pippen and call a spade a spade..

The only reason perceptions got out of whack is because the on paper-evaluations of new fans only see ring count and therefore overrate a 2nd option like Pippen - but 2nd options don't get credit for rings.. That's like Klay being ranked over Harden due to rings, which would be unfair, but that's the treatment Pippen gets.. So he's been inflated to top 30 despite dozens of new players passing him since he was awarded top 50 in 1996.

[HoopsNY]

if you're getting your information or biases from Cowherd, then you have serious problems. It's like the Bran Stans on this forum saying they get their information from Nick Wrong, (which they probably do).

[3ba11]

if you're getting your information or biases from Cowherd, then you have serious problems. It's like the Bran Stans on this forum saying they get their information from Nick Wrong, (which they probably do).


That's how Pippen was viewed in the 90's and that's what he was - the stats show that clearly - it's YOUR bias that overrates Pippen based on ring count, even though 2nd options don't get credit for rings like that... Period.. there's nothing else about Pippen's resume that's top 50 all-time.. literally nothing.. And defenders aren't ranked top 50 (russell was leading scorer on a champion, so he did it all)

[HoopsNY]

That's how Pippen was viewed in the 90's and that's what he was - the stats show that clearly - it's YOUR bias that overrates Pippen based on ring count, even though 2nd options don't get credit for rings like that... Period.. there's nothing else about Pippen's resume that's top 50 all-time.. literally nothing.. And defenders aren't ranked top 50 (russell was leading scorer on a champion, so he did it all)

I have no bias. I routinely defend MJ on this forum. I give credit where credit is due. I've defended your claim that Payton was just as good as Pippen, and that Wade is definitely better than Pippen.

But I'm also not a blind moron who thinks that Pippen was insignificant.

Insignificant second options don't lead their teams to 55 wins after their best player bails on them.

Insignificant second options don't outscore the opposing NBA finals team's second options in 5/6 finals.

Insignificant second options don't win All-Defensive 1st Team selections 8x.

Insignificant second options aren't all-around players, consistent All-Stars, All-NBA selected, putting up 20/7/7 in the playoffs.

I understand Pippen's efficiency and scoring woes. But the criticism comes with a lot of praise, too. You just need to let this go.

[97 bulls]

I have no bias. I routinely defend MJ on this forum. I give credit where credit is due. I've defended your claim that Payton was just as good as Pippen, and that Wade is definitely better than Pippen.

But I'm also not a blind moron who thinks that Pippen was insignificant.

Insignificant second options don't lead their teams to 55 wins after their best player bails on them.

Insignificant second options don't outscore the opposing NBA finals team's second options in 5/6 finals.

Insignificant second options don't win All-Defensive 1st Team selections 8x.

Insignificant second options aren't all-around players, consistent All-Stars, All-NBA selected, putting up 20/7/7 in the playoffs.

I understand Pippen's efficiency and scoring woes. But the criticism comes with a lot of praise, too. You just need to let this go.

Great post brother. I still want to have a 1 on 1 with you outside of this forum. You are among the few that I feel can hold your own against me. Theres too many trolls on this forum. I like to converse with you and Maddog. Even if hes an idiot lol. Hes still cool beans. I dont know how to send a personal message on here.

[HoopsNY]

Great post brother. I still want to have a 1 on 1 with you outside of this forum. You are among the few that I feel can hold your own against me. Theres too many trolls on this forum. I like to converse with you and Maddog. Even if hes an idiot lol. Hes still cool beans. I dont know how to send a personal message on here.

Yea man. I'm down for it. I just don't know how to PM on this forum. Would love to do a Zoom with you, mehya, dankok, Maddog, Bronbron, ImKobe, etc. Could even do a Zoom session while watching the finals. That'll be dope.

[3ba11]

I have no bias. I routinely defend MJ on this forum. I give credit where credit is due. I've defended your claim that Payton was just as good as Pippen, and that Wade is definitely better than Pippen.

But I'm also not a blind moron who thinks that Pippen was insignificant.

Insignificant second options don't lead their teams to 55 wins after their best player bails on them.

Insignificant second options don't outscore the opposing NBA finals team's second options in 5/6 finals.

Insignificant second options don't win All-Defensive 1st Team selections 8x.

Insignificant second options aren't all-around players, consistent All-Stars, All-NBA selected, putting up 20/7/7 in the playoffs.

I understand Pippen's efficiency and scoring woes. But the criticism comes with a lot of praise, too. You just need to let this go.


55 wins doesn't equal top 50 - 55 wins is a top 1000 peak - everyone does it - Marc Gasol won DPOY and 55 wins in 2014 - it's nothing... Blake Griffin was #3 for MVP and won 58

And out of the hundreds of guys that won 55 games, none of them had a 3-peat system... Only Pippen... After the 3-peat luster was gone in 95', he had a .500 ballclub before MJ carried him to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

Strategy and brand of ball is why the 94' Bulls won 55 games despite weak talent (no 2nd option and non-spectacular stats from the 1st option).. Otoh, the 88' Bulls didn't have a good strategy/brand, so they won 50 via talent (the MVP and DPOY).

Ultimately, Pippen was an all-star-caliber player for a few years, and about 150-200 all-time, just like his stats say he is.

[HoopsNY]

55 wins and 2nd Round loss is a top 1000 peak - everyone does it - Marc Gasol won DPOY and 55 wins in 2014 - it's nothing... Blake Griffin was #3 for MVP and won 58

And out of the hundreds of guys that won 55 games, none of them had a 3-peat system... Only Pippen...

Strategy and brand of ball is why the 94' Bulls won 55 games despite weak talent (no 2nd option and non-spectacular stats from the 1st option).. Otoh, the 88' Bulls didn't have a good strategy/brand, so they won 50 via talent (the MVP and DPOY).

Ultimately, Pippen was an all-star-caliber player for a few years, and about 150-200 all-time, just like his stats say he is.

BS.

So now Marc Gasol, who is a career nobody, stands on the same footing as Pippen? What has he ever done to warrant such a comparison? You're behaving as if Pippen's 1994 season is in complete isolation, as if he wasn't a routine All-NBA/All-Defensive/All-Star every other year.

The Clippers did win 57 games, but Blake Griffin had a sidekick named Chris Paul, and other teammates like DeAndre Jordan, JJ Redick, and the 6th Man of the Year in Jamal Crawford.

Furthermore, Blake has done little outside of that to warrant any kind of comparison.

[3ba11]

BS.

So now Marc Gasol, who is a career nobody, stands on the same footing as Pippen? What has he ever done to warrant such a comparison? You're behaving as if Pippen's 1994 season is in complete isolation, as if he wasn't a routine All-NBA/All-Defensive/All-Star.

The Clippers did win 57 games, but Blake Griffin had a sidekick named Chris Paul, and other teammates like DeAndre Jordan, JJ Redick, and the 6th Man of the Year in Jamal Crawford.

Furthermore, Blake has done little outside of that to warrant any kind of comparison.


out of the hundreds of guys that won 55 games, none of them had a 3-peat system... Only Pippen... After the 3-peat luster was gone in 95', he had a .500 ballclub before MJ carried him to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

Strategy and brand of ball is why the 94' Bulls won 55 games despite weak talent (no 2nd option and non-spectacular stats from the 1st option).. Otoh, the 88' Bulls didn't have a good strategy/brand, so they won 50 via talent (the MVP and DPOY).

Ultimately, Pippen was an all-star-caliber player for a few years, and about 150-200 all-time, just like his stats say he is.

[3ba11]

.
.
Cowherd's remarks have been added to the small collection we have below:



BILL LAIMBEER:


"We didn't even think about Scottie Pippen. It was Michael Jordan and the Jordanaires. And you can't win championships like that, with only one player."."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/the-jordan-rules-what-the-last-dance-documentary-doesnt-say-about-pistons-defense-against-michael-jordan/amp/



SHAQ TALKING ABOUT PIPPEN:


"I don't let bums (https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2533220-shaquille-oneal-sounds-off-on-scottie-pippen-while-explaining-instagram-feud.amp.html) disrespect me..."

"Don't make me pull up the scouting report. You wasn't even a factor on the scouting report. It was all about Mike."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2533220-shaquille-oneal-sounds-off-on-scottie-pippen-while-explaining-instagram-feud.amp.html

"You did okay, but MJ did most of the work"

"yes THE GREAT MICHAEL JORDAN GOT YOU SIX RINGS , but you will always be remembered as MR 2nd FIDDLE."

"See what happens when Michael Jordan ain't protecting you, you lose a 17 pt lead in the fourth quarter." (referring to 2000 WCF Game 7)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/nba-star-shaquille-oneal-slams-scotty-pippin-in-social-media-squabble/amp/



JERRY KRAUSE, BULLS GM:


“Would Pippen have been great someplace else?

Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him... No, Michael made him a man.

Michael made him a man and Doug [Collins] did a great job with him in his first year. And he - Collins - had Michael to beat on him for a year every day in practice and Michael beat him to death."

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5453558



CHUCK DALY:


"It doesn't entail me playing you necessarily... it's our 5.... playing... you."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gCMWuCdsGQ&t=27m41s



CHUCK DALY:


"We knew how dangerous he was and we knew going into the playoffs that we had to do something special.. So we most definitely devised what we called "the Jordan Rules""

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=22m49s



BILL LAIMBEER:


"The Jordan Rules were to just stop him, because no one else could beat you on that ballclub"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2v0LOhjsJs&t=1m22s



PHIL JACKSON:


"Don't leave Michael all alone here. It's not time YET."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WeAUz2dZ_NQ&t=30m20s

This was Phil Jackson during a huddle in the 1991 NBA Finals, showing how the everyday game plan was to leave Michael alone and let him do everything down the stretch of games.



DUMARS AND ISIAH:


"Isiah said he sat out by the water for 4-5 hours (thinking about MJ)".

"Dumars and i were on the phone for hours, talking about 23 in red."

"Isiah called me at 3 in the morning and said 'I think i finally figured out a way to stop MJ"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h05m33s

This was Dumars' and Isiah's reaction to the Bulls taking 2-1 series lead in 1989 ECF after MJ hit GW over Rodman.. The last quote is from assistant coach Brendan Malone, who said that Isiah called at 3 am to talk about stopping MJ.



HORACE GRANT:


"If it wasn't for MJ, I don't think I'd be sitting here right now. I mean, would've had a decent career, but for a leader like that to lead you to 3 championships..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aYOQVWSCY&t=14m44s


SCOTTIE PIPPEN:


"It was the pressure. As the pressure grew, the pounding grew. I wasn't able to answer the bell."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqC74bv46Z8&t=1h22m15s

This was Pippen in the Bad Boys documentary ADMITTING he the pressure caused him to disappear in 1990 ECF Game 7 - this cost the Bulls a trip to the Finals and the ring - (Bulls would've beaten Blazers - Blazers lost in 5 easy games to Pistons, while Bulls took then 7.



COLIN COWHERD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VTEz0j5UD0&t=421s



Jordan had an established reputation for bummy casts and his carry-job identity is where terms like "supporting cast" and "jordannaires" literally originated.

So even if you're too young and weren't there, the quotes above sing the same song, along with the STATS, which always tell the story - if Lebron had "bums" in 2009 despite the #3 defense and an all-star teammate, then Jordan had bums in 1990 when he had the #19 defense and a far less productive all-star teammate (lower BPM, VORP, WS/48, PER, scoring, efficiency).

Ultimately, Jordan had the least supporting talent of any dynasty because he was forced to produce the most raw offensive production of all time (as measured by points + assists):

43.3 points and 7.4 assists per 100 possessions in the playoffs... no one is close.
.

[HoopsNY]

out of the hundreds of guys that won 55 games, none of them had a 3-peat system... Only Pippen... After the 3-peat luster was gone in 95', he had a .500 ballclub before MJ carried him to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

Strategy and brand of ball is why the 94' Bulls won 55 games despite weak talent (no 2nd option and non-spectacular stats from the 1st option).. Otoh, the 88' Bulls didn't have a good strategy/brand, so they won 50 via talent (the MVP and DPOY).

Ultimately, Pippen was an all-star-caliber player for a few years, and about 150-200 all-time, just like his stats say he is.

Stop cherry picking. The 1994-95 Bulls were in playoff contention as a 6th seed before MJ returned. Furthermore, not only did they not have MJ prior to his returning, but that team also lost an All-Defensive/All-Star in Horace Grant.

What happens when you rid a championship team of 2 of its 3 best players?

Imagine San Antonio with Parker but no Ginobili and Duncan.

LA with Kobe but no Rice/Shaq or Shaq/Horry.

Miami with just Wade and no Bosh/LeBron (we saw what that was like).

GS with no KD/Klay, just Steph (oh wait, we saw that too...and he had Draymond at least).

Boston with no KG/Allen, just Pierce (oh wait we saw that too).

Once again, your analysis is disingenuous. Not to mention, you failed to highlight that Chicago was 8-2 in their last 10 games prior to MJ returning. Pippen was carrying that load and you just don't want to admit it.

[3ba11]

Stop cherry picking. The 1994-95 Bulls were in playoff contention as a 6th seed before MJ returned. Furthermore, not only did they not have MJ prior to his returning, but that team also lost an All-Defensive/All-Star in Horace Grant.

What happens when you rid a championship team of 2 of its 3 best players?

Imagine San Antonio with Parker but no Ginobili and Duncan.

LA with Kobe but no Rice/Shaq or Shaq/Horry.

Miami with just Wade and no Bosh/LeBron (we saw what that was like).

GS with no KD/Klay, just Steph (oh wait, we saw that too...and he had Draymond at least).

Boston with no KG/Allen, just Pierce (oh wait we saw that too).

Once again, your analysis is disingenuous. Not to mention, you failed to highlight that Chicago was 8-2 in their last 10 games prior to MJ returning. Pippen was carrying that load and you just don't want to admit it.


The 95' Bulls were 34-31 until Jordan carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back - so Pippen was a weak 1st option with the same peak stats as Larry Hughes..

Who cares that he won 55 games like everyone in history, especially considering that he's the only 55-game winner with a 3-peat system and 7 years of pressure-free grooming under the goat 1st option.. and yet he STILL wet the bed... pippen f'kin sucked

[HoopsNY]

The 95' Bulls were 34-31 until Jordan carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back - so Pippen was a weak 1st option with the same peak stats as Larry Hughes..

Who cares that he won 55 games like everyone in history, especially considering that he's the only 55-game winner with a 3-peat system and 7 years of pressure-free grooming under the goat 1st option.. and yet he STILL wet the bed... pippen f'kin sucked

When all else fails, dodge the premise of the rebuttal and resort to the original bombastic claim.

Golden State won a title in 2015, 2017, and 2018. 2019 KD and Klay go down. 2020 none of the guys were healthy.

Steph plays without those guys in 2021 and what happened?

What happened to Kobe when the team was dissolved?

What happened to Wade when Shaq left?

What happened to the Celtics in 1988-89 when Bird was injured? The team won just 42 games and bounced from the 1st round. Do you talk shit about Kevin McHale the way you do about Pippen?

[3ba11]

When all else fails, dodge the premise of the rebuttal and resort to the original bombastic claim.

Golden State won a title in 2015, 2017, and 2018. 2019 KD and Klay go down. 2020 none of the guys were healthy.

Steph plays without those guys in 2021 and what happened?

What happened to Kobe when the team was dissolved?

What happened to Wade when Shaq left?

What happened to the Celtics in 1988-89 when Bird was injured? The team won just 42 games and bounced from the 1st round. Do you talk shit about Kevin McHale the way you do about Pippen?


The 89' Celtics were already a shit team - they were nowhere near pursuing a 4-peat with everyone in their prime.

Ditto all the other teams

otoh, Pippen was like a lab experiment where they formed the perfect scenario by granting him a 3-peat system and 7 years of pressure-free grooming under the goat 1st option.. and he still wet the bed in historic fashion - but this was STANDARD - pippen just sucked with hundreds or horrible performances and chokes - no one ever watched Pippen and said "that's a top 50 performance"... ever... look at all the quotes from Cowherd, Shaq, Laimbeer - no one held Pippen in high regard.

[HoopsNY]

The 89' Celtics were already a shit team - they were nowhere near pursuing a 4-peat with everyone in their prime.

Ditto all the other teams

otoh, Pippen was like a lab experiment where they formed the perfect scenario by granting him a 3-peat system and 7 years of pressure-free grooming under the goat 1st option.. and he still wet the bed in historic fashion - but this was STANDARD - pippen just sucked with hundreds or horrible performances and chokes - no one ever watched Pippen and said "that's a top 50 performance"... ever... look at all the quotes from Cowherd, Shaq, Laimbeer - no one held Pippen in high regard.

'88 Celtics won 57 games
'89 Celtics lose Bird and were somehow a shit team even if he wasn't hurt.
'90 Celtics have an injury riddled Bird and won 52 games.
'91 Celtics won 56 games and Bird is even older and I guess a shit team, too?

[3ba11]

'88 Celtics won 57 games
'89 Celtics lose Bird and were somehow a shit team even if he wasn't hurt.
'90 Celtics have an injury riddled Bird and won 52 games.
'91 Celtics won 56 games and Bird is even older and I guess a shit team, too?


Losing in the 2nd Round is nowhere near winning a title.

And winning a title is nowhere near winning 2

And we saw the 14' Heat - winning 2 titles is nowhere near winning 3

TLDR: Out of the hundreds of guys in history that have won 55 games in a season, only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat with everyone in their prime.. And once that 3-peat luster was gone, he was 34-31 until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

[HoopsNY]

Losing in the 2nd Round is nowhere near winning a title.

And winning a title is nowhere near winning 2

And we saw the 14' Heat - winning 2 titles is nowhere near winning 3

TLDR: Out of the hundreds of guys in history that have won 55 games in a season, only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat with everyone in their prime.. And once that 3-peat luster was gone, he was 34-31 until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

Bogus comparisons. You're using a unique situation that matches only Chicago's scenario against every other scenario out there, all in an effort to discredit Pippen.

No other team did a 3 peat and then lost their best player. So your comparisons are not valid anyway.

[3ba11]

No other team did a 3 peat and then lost their best player





how hard can it be for an all-star to win 55 games while pursuing a 4-peat with everyone in their prime?... It's gotta be a lot easier than winning 50+ without that, or with a rookie brand like the 88' Bulls - you probably need TALENT to do that (the mvp and dpoy)

[97 bulls]

The 95' Bulls were 34-31 until Jordan carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back - so Pippen was a weak 1st option with the same peak stats as Larry Hughes..

Who cares that he won 55 games like everyone in history, especially considering that he's the only 55-game winner with a 3-peat system and 7 years of pressure-free grooming under the goat 1st option.. and yet he STILL wet the bed... pippen f'kin sucked

Jordan never won 55 games without Pippen though. This is the problem with conversing with 3ball. Hes not logical. Hes the only person that sees what the 94 Bulls did as a failure.

The only reason people use Jordan to rebut his arguments is that all he knows. It's not fair to call Jordan a failure for not beating greatbyeams when he didnt have sufficient support. But Pippen is supposed to. But hes a scrub. Its contradictory.

[97 bulls]

how hard can it be for an all-star to win 55 games while pursuing a 4-peat with everyone in their prime?... It's gotta be a lot easier than winning 50+ without that, or with a rookie brand like the 88' Bulls - you probably need TALENT to do that (the mvp and dpoy)

Everyone wasnt there. Jordan was gone. You're the one saying Jordan carried a bunch of bums. Now they shouldve won a Championship without him? And without a viable replacement?

[97 bulls]

And let's get something straight. Winning 55 games in a season means you're a damn good basketball team. A small fraction of NBA teams win 50+ games in any given year. You make it seem like the Bulls were a .500 ball club.

[hateraid]

Threads like this and the actual people who agree with OP is the reason I think Jordan stans are the most delusional fans on earth.

[And1AllDay]

3baLLLLLLLLL talking to himself all night on Hoops Ny

get some help bro. im not joking anymore. go see a doctor they can help

enjoy your 4th and dont be a fakkit

[3ba11]

You make it seem like the Bulls were a .500 ball club.




The 95' Bulls were - they were 34-31 until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

Ultimately, everyone wins 55 games, but only Pippen won 55 while pursuing a 4-peat - 55 wins while pursuing a 4-peat isn't impressive.. Once he got exposed in the playoffs and the 3-peat luster was gone, the 95' Bulls were 34-31 until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

[HoopsNY]

3baLLLLLLLLL talking to himself all night on Hoops Ny

get some help bro. im not joking anymore. go see a doctor they can help

enjoy your 4th and dont be a fakkit

Cute how Bran stans insist I'm 3ball. You guys have serious issues.

[JohnMax]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1994.html

If Pippen is garbage and carried Bulls to playoffs and past 1st round without Jordan. Why couldn't Jordan do same thing without him on Wizards?

[3ba11]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_1994.html

If Pippen is garbage and carried Bulls to playoffs and past 1st round without Jordan. Why couldn't Jordan do same thing without him on Wizards?


Your link shows that Kukoc led Pippen in BPM for the 94' Playoffs, while 3 teammates led in WS/48 - Pippen failed as a 1st option

Ultimately, everyone wins 55 games, but only Pippen won 55 while pursuing a 4-peat - 55 wins while pursuing a 4-peat isn't impressive..

Once he got exposed in the playoffs and the 3-peat luster was gone, the 95' Bulls were a .500 ballclub until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.