Jamal Mashburn - Scotties defense was overrated, I'm cutting him for TMac/Nique

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQ1UdNcMEgi/

:oldlol::oldlol:



poor babyboi Scottie. Most legends know he was truly just an Iguodala level player (without the clutch gene)

couldnt even defend his wife from a trap rapper :oldlol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI

:pimp:

[Xiao Yao You]

overrated as was Dominique

[ImKobe]

Pippen was a great defender, but I'd take T-Mac & Nique's offense any day of the week.

[jlip]

Wasn't 'Nique voted most overrated by his peers in a poll during the 80's?

[Real Men Wear Green]

I've always thought in a different setting (like if he stayed in TO) McGrady would have been Pippen in every way that mattered on the court. I'm not as sure that Pippen could have been that level of scorer but had he played more of his career as the first option he would most likely have been more of a scorer. The main difference was McGrady's three point shooting ability but that has a lot to do with the different approach to the game of their two generations. It's not like Pip was Ben Simmons, he could shoot well enough from the areas that players of his day took most of their shots from and was a respectable distance shooter by that era's standards.

Pippen vs. Nique is a tough choice because their circumstances were so different. Like McGrady Nique was inarguably the better scorer, Pippen was of course far better defensively and had greater versatility with his ability to run an offense like a point guard. Equal as rebounders, both highly athletic wings that could grab a lot of boards when they felt like it but had other duties so it wasn't the focus.

[Kblaze8855]

Wasn't 'Nique voted most overrated by his peers in a poll during the 80's?

I wanna say twice in the SI player poll. He was also voted the worst defender but I think they worded it “Least interested in D”.

[Gohan]

I wanna say twice in the SI player poll. He was also voted the worst defender but I think they worded it “Least interested in D”.

sounds like they're hating on him either way if we go by peer talk, Kobe is damn near a top 3 player of all time

[tpols]

Wasn't 'Nique voted most overrated by his peers in a poll during the 80's?

Nique looks to be a melo type player inefficient high volume with bad defense. Tmac otoh was like a tall Kobe. He's def better than Pippen.

[j3lademaster]

sounds like they're hating on him either way if we go by peer talk, Kobe is damn near a top 3 player of all time
Another guy players speak highly of is Brandon Roy. I remember Kobe saying he's the toughest guy to guard.

[3ba11]

Pippen was a great defender.


There's no defense that makes up for 16 ppg on 40%, which was Pippen's standard - if Paul George had those numbers, no one would be saying "but he plays great defense!!"... He would simply get destroyed for it - they would take his star status away and label him a defensive role player, since that's what spotty-scoring defenders are.

However, people who liked the Bulls simply have a soft spot for Pippen because he was there for the 6 rings.. But 2nd options don't get credit for rings like a 1st option, which is why Pippen is so overrated.

Fortunately, we will continue to hear people say Pippen wasn't good because his recent comments on Phil have removed people's "6 ring" bias, and made people look at Pippen more objectively - once they do that, they invariably realize that he wasn't that good - he simply never played that great in the playoffs.. Ever.,. Not a single moment.. Not a single big shot.. Not a single dominant series.. Never a 1b... Never got withing 10 point of MJ in any series (unprecedented).. A 100% coattailer..

And yeah, Mashburn completely destroyed him - everyone destroyed Pippen because his defense was vastly overrated... Pippen has no signature series where he locked someone down as the primary defender - Jordan has tons (most SG's shot 40% against MJ) - Pippen has none.

[Gohan]

there's no defense that makes up for 16 ppg on 40%, which was pippen's standard - if paul george had those numbers, no one would be saying "but he plays great defense!!"... He would simply get destroyed for it - they would take his star status away and label him a defensive role player, since that's what spotty-scoring defenders are.

However, people who liked the bulls simply have a soft spot for pippen because he was there for the 6 rings.. But 2nd options don't get credit for rings like a 1st option, which is why pippen is so overrated.

Fortunately, we will continue to hear people say pippen wasn't good because his recent comments on phil have removed people's "6 ring" bias, and made people look at pippen more objectively - once they do that, they invariably realize that he wasn't that good - he simply never played that great in the playoffs.. Ever.,. Not a single moment.. Not a single big shot.. Not a single dominant series.. A 100% coattailer..

And yeah, mashburn completely destroyed him - everyone destroyed pippen because his defense was vastly overrated... Pippen has no signature series where he locked someone down as the primary defender - jordan has tons (most sg's shot 40% against mj) - pippen has none.

but but but... Pippen scored 22 ppgz without jordan. Teh best scorer in the league...jordan 1-9 yay lets go home boys

[3ba11]

but but but... Pippen scored 22 ppgz without jordan. Teh best scorer in the league...jordan 1-9 yay lets go home boys


22 ppg is a top 1000 peak that bums like Larry Hughes matched.

otoh, the best 2nd options were actually elite 1st options that peaked at 30 ppg or more, like Kobe, Curry, Wade, Kareem, AD, Shaq, etc.

Ultimately, everyone is a "Pippen" because everyone can get 15-22 ppg on poor efficiency... Robert Horry averaged 18/10 on 55% in the 95' Finals, or JR Smith averaged 18/8 on 58% in the 15' ECF - there's hundreds of examples like this, maybe thousands, so any tom, dick and harry can be Pippen.

And they don't need to be clutch because Pippen was the worst clutch player of all-time - literally... Not a single moment.. Not a single big shot.. Not a single dominant series.. Never a 1b... Never got within 10 ppg of MJ in any series (unprecedented).. A 100% coattailer.... Jordan won 6 rings with peak Robert Horry or Larry Hughes.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

22 ppg is a top 1000 peak that bums like Larry Hughes matched.

otoh, the best 2nd options were actually elite 1st options that peaked at 30 ppg or more, like Kobe, Curry, Wade, Kareem, AD, Shaq, etc.

Ultimately, everyone is a "Pippen" because everyone can get 15-22 ppg on poor efficiency... Robert Horry averaged 18/10 on 55% in the 95' Finals, or JR Smith averaged 18/8 on 58% in the 15' ECF - there's hundreds of examples like this, maybe thousands, so any tom, dick and harry can be Pippen.

And they don't need to be clutch because Pippen was the worst clutch player of all-time - literally... Not a single moment.. Not a single big shot.. Not a single dominant series.. Never a 1b... Never got within 10 ppg of MJ in any series (unprecedented).. A 100% coattailer.... Jordan won 6 rings with peak Robert Horry or Larry Hughes.

Prime Pippu or prime Iggy?

Iggy is far more clutch and delivers on the biggest stage, capable of outplaying superstars.

[3ba11]

Prime Pippu or prime Iggy?

Iggy is far more clutch and delivers on the biggest stage, capable of outplaying superstars.


Iggy didn't need to be raised like Pippen did, so I'd take Iggy quite easily.

Heck, the guy that drafted Pippen (Krause) said that if Pippen didn't play with Jordan, not much would've come of him (quote here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494397-Sourced-quotes-from-people-in-the-NBA-talking-candidly-about-Pippen))

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Iggy didn't need to be raised like Pippen did, so I'd take Iggy quite easily.

Heck, the guy that drafted Pippen (Krause) said that if Pippen didn't play with Jordan, not much would've come of him (quote here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494397-Sourced-quotes-from-people-in-the-NBA-talking-candidly-about-Pippen))

Damn...

[Gohan]

iggy didn't need to be raised like pippen did, so i'd take iggy quite easily.

Heck, the guy that drafted pippen (krause) said that if pippen didn't play with jordan, not much would've come of him (quote here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494397-sourced-quotes-from-people-in-the-nba-talking-candidly-about-pippen))

have to disagree, if pippen would of played with iverson they would of been in the ecf's every year

[3ba11]

have to disagree, if pippen would of played with iverson they would of been in the ecf's every year


Pippen averaged 8 ppg as a rookie and 14 as a sophomore, so Iverson wouldn't make the playoffs with Pippen in those years, considering he missed the 06' Playoffs with Webber getting 20/10..

Furthermore, Iverson is the original ball-dominator, so Pippen would be a spot-up shooter and wouldn't be shit next to Iverson.

[Gohan]

pippen averaged 8 ppg as a rookie and 14 as a sophomore, so iverson wouldn't make the playoffs with pippen in those years, considering he missed the 06' playoffs with webber getting 20/10..

Furthermore, iverson is the original ball-dominator, so pippen would be a spot-up shooter and wouldn't be shit next to iverson.

if you thought webber helped that team you clearly didnt watch basketball. But if you also thought iverson dominated the ball and turned players into spot up shooters i cant take you seriously. Iverson>jordan

im on your ass mr post man and everytime i see you you will be reminded how iverson is a better player than jordan ever was. You made your bed hard and now youre going to lay in it

[3ba11]

if you thought webber helped that team you clearly didnt watch basketball. But if you also thought iverson dominated the ball and turned players into spot up shooters i cant take you seriously. Iverson>jordan

im on your ass mr post man and everytime i see you you will be reminded how iverson is a better player than jordan ever was. You made your bed hard and now youre going to lay in it


Webber helped the team more than rookie benchwarmer Pippen

So you never watched - young Pippen was considered a massive LIABILITY and a SPOT that opponents exploited - he flat out sucked and Iverson could never raise him like Jordan did because Iverson was a ball-dominator that turns Pip into a spot-up shooter.. Iverson would destroy Pippen

[kawhileonard2]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQ1UdNcMEgi/

:oldlol::oldlol:



poor babyboi Scottie. Most legends know he was truly just an Iguodala level player (without the clutch gene)

couldnt even defend his wife from a trap rapper :oldlol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI

:pimp:

Mashburn put 50 on Peak Pippen in 1994.

[97 bulls]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQ1UdNcMEgi/

:oldlol::oldlol:



poor babyboi Scottie. Most legends know he was truly just an Iguodala level player (without the clutch gene)

couldnt even defend his wife from a trap rapper :oldlol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRR3Jx8RvoI

:pimp:

Did you watch this video? It look like only 18 of those 50 points was scored against Pippen. And Mashburn had an and1 that shouldve been an offensive foul.

Mashburn had a reputation for being an atrocious defensive player and that's one of the reasons he never won a Championship.

[RRR3]

Webber helped the team more than rookie benchwarmer Pippen

So you never watched - young Pippen was considered a massive LIABILITY and a SPOT that opponents exploited - he flat out sucked and Iverson could never raise him like Jordan did because Iverson was a ball-dominator that turns Pip into a spot-up shooter.. Iverson would destroy Pippen
Iverson destroyed MJ 1 on 1.


And Gohan is right Webber was completely washed on the Sixers.

[3ba11]

Iverson destroyed MJ 1 on 1.


And Gohan is right Webber was completely washed on the Sixers.


Iverson had about 10 other guys better than rookie or sophomore pippen, so it's irrelevant - Iverson isn't carrying rookie or sophomore pippen over the #1 SRS team in the league and then to the ECF, nor would Pippen develop alongside the original ball-dominator (AI)

[RRR3]

Iverson had about 10 other guys better than rookie or sophomore pippen, so it's irrelevant - Iverson isn't carrying rookie or sophomore pippen over the #1 SRS team in the league and then to the ECF, nor would Pippen develop alongside the original ball-dominator (AI)
Who gives a **** about Pippen in his first two years? MJ had Orlando Woolridge then who was a beast.

[3ba11]

Who gives a **** about Pippen in his first two years? MJ had Orlando Woolridge then who was a beast.


Rookie MJ lifted the Bulls from 20-something wins to 8 seed, so MJ/Woolridge faced impossible 1st Round opponents like the Celtics or peak Bucks.

Otoh, once Jordan had 3 healthy seasons to develop his team (88'), he made the 2nd Round just like 3rd year Lebron (06'), except he was carrying an 8 ppg rookie, while Lebron had the East all-star center and a 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition (a pippen).

[Gohan]

iverson had about 10 other guys better than rookie or sophomore pippen, so it's irrelevant - iverson isn't carrying rookie or sophomore pippen over the #1 srs team in the league and then to the ecf, nor would pippen develop alongside the original ball-dominator (ai)

are you retarded? No one is talking about rookie sophmore pippen, we're talking about the pippen jordan won his championships with. Damn something wrong with you bruh

[3ba11]

are you retarded? No one is talking about rookie sophmore pippen, we're talking about the pippen jordan won his championships with. Damn something wrong with you bruh


You said that Iverson would make the ECF every year with Pippen, and I'm saying that Pippen wouldn't develop alongside a non-practicing, ball-dominator like Iverson - so Iverson/Pippen would remain in the lottery, since Iverson can't make the playoffs with rookie Pippen (he missed with Webber and about 6 guys better than rookie pippen).

Again, Iverson can't make the playoffs with rookie pippen, and pippen doesn't develop alongside a non-practicing, ball-dominator like Iverson - they literally never make the playoffs together

[Gohan]

you said that iverson would make the ecf every year with pippen, and i'm saying that pippen wouldn't develop alongside a non-practicing, ball-dominator like iverson - so iverson/pippen would remain in the lottery, since iverson can't make the playoffs with rookie pippen (he missed with webber and about 6 guys better than rookie pippen).

if iggy developed pippen develops, guarantee

[3ba11]

if iggy developed pippen develops, guarantee


Unlike rookie Pippen, Iggy was good right away and started from day 1.. He beat out veteran 2nd options like Aaron McKie, while Pippen couldn't even beat out Brad Sellers.

But despite Iggy's superior talent, Iggy didn't develop much under Iverson and only realized his FMVP ceiling away from Iverson (after Iverson had used up his prime).

[3ba11]

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:facepalm:

[3ba11]

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THREAD CLIFFS:


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495254-Official-3Ball-Victory-Lap-Thread-for-being-right-about-Pippen