The 5 best perimeter players in 1994 and 1995 (not including MJ)

[MadDog]

Drexler
Pippen
Richmond
Stockton
Miller

:confusedshrug:

You could technically throw Barkley into that group, since he took jumpshots and threes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRY9bZTPVr0

This video is funny for a few reasons. One, Phil thinks Pippen is better than damn near everyone. Other reason is Pippen's recent "racial" criticism of Phil. Claims Phil didn't have trust in him, but this looks like a full on GREEN light. :oldlol:

[Manny98]

Pippen was the best perimeter player of the entire era behind Jordan, that was the consensus opinion at the time as well

Only Stockton has a argument over peak Pippen

[MadDog]

Pippen was the best perimeter player of the entire era behind Jordan, that was the consensus opinion at the time as well

Only Stockton has a argument over peak Pippen

Maybe in greatness. Pippen had winning spotlight and helped Jordan three-peat twice. Don't think his prime was definitively better than guys like Drexler, Payton, Stockton or even Richmond, who was also a good 2-way player. Think it would depend on the years. In 94 and 95, Pippen had a good argument though.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'm not so sure pippen wasn't better than Jordan period

I personally think he was better/more impactful and therefore higher all time

Pippen is absurdly underrated. He's a better offensive version of Bill Russell on the perimeter. That's GOAT status

[3ba11]

Maybe in greatness. Pippen had winning spotlight and helped Jordan three-peat twice. Don't think his prime was definitively better than guys like Drexler, Payton, Stockton or even Richmond, who was also a good 2-way player. Think it would depend on the years. In 94 and 95, Pippen had a good argument though.


Everyone was a better scorer and passer than Pippen, including Payton, Drexler, Grant Hill, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, and many more..

Pippen's peaked at 22 and 5 apg, which is a garbage peak and lower than.... E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E

Phil Jackson was just saying whatever he thought would give his team the most confidence - when it mattered, he went with Kukoc

[Gohan]

i'm not so sure pippen wasn't better than jordan period

i personally think he was better/more impactful and therefore higher all time

pippen is absurdly underrated. He's a better offensive version of bill russell on the perimeter. That's goat status

i felt like this with iverson and lebron. People say lebron is top 3 alltime, and i always ask how? When iverson is a clear cut better player of all time than him. Does that make iverson top 2? Hell for all we know iverson might be the best player of all time and we didnt even know it. Who would of thought after all this time ive been underrating him just putting him in the top 10 of all time greatest players ever. We are not worthy

[tpols]

Pippen was the best perimeter player of the entire era behind Jordan, that was the consensus opinion at the time as well

Only Stockton has a argument over peak Pippen

Clyde, Reggie, Stockton, KJ, Penny, and Payton were all better.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Reggie
Drexler
Stockton
Payton
KJ

HM: Penny, Mitch, Grant Hill, Price, Porter

[tpols]

Everyone was a better scorer and passer than Pippen, including Payton, Drexler, Grant Hill, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, and many more..

Pippen's peaked at 22 and 5 apg, which is a garbage peak and lower than.... E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E

Phil Jackson was just saying whatever he thought would give his team the most confidence - when it mattered, he went with Kukoc

Bingo. Everybody knows Phil was Zen master and his coaching wasn't even built on X's and O's... It was built on ego management. He knows Michael doesn't need any confidence boost, but by saying that about Pippen it elevates his confidence and ultimately the teams performance, which is all Phil cares about.

[jalbert009]

The 90s were a different era in basketball. Offenses were built around your Bigs so naturally guards didn't get the stats like today's guards do with the exception of a few like MJ, Drexler etc. Today's game is catered to wing players so what do you think happened? That's right, most 4s and 5s that could have been stars in the 90s have a become role players with the exception of a few generational talents.

[Hey Yo]

Clyde, Reggie, Stockton, KJ, Penny, and Payton were all better.

Dumb

[3ba11]

Dumb


Reggie Miller and Pippen faced the same opponent in the playoffs 6 times....



R Miller vs. 90' Pistons..... 20.7 on 57%... 17.9 usage
Pippen. vs. 90' Pistons..... 16.6 on 43%... 20.4 usage

R Miller vs 93' Knicks....... 31.5 on 53%... 27.5 usage
Pippen. vs 93' Knicks....... 22.5 on 51%... 28.4 usage

R Miller vs 94' Knicks....... 24.7 on 44%... 30.1 usage
Pippen. vs 94' Knicks....... 21.7 on 41%... 31.7 usage

R Miller vs 95' Magic........ 25.9 on 52%... 26.2 usage
Pippen. vs 95' Magic........ 19.0 on 42%... 23.1 usage

R Miller vs 00' Lakers....... 24.3 on 41%... 25.0 usage
Pippen. vs 00' Lakers....... 15.1 on 43%... 19.5 usage
Pippen. vs 99' Lakers....... 18.3 on 33%... 23.5 usage

R Miller 98' ECF............... 17.4 on 41%... 21.1 usage
Pippen. 98' ECF............... 16.6 on 39%... 26.0 usage


Miller's superior play would help Jordan win every year, especially in 95' when Pippen wet the bed against Orlando, while Miller destroyed them.

95' Pippen had a .500 ballclub until MJ carried them to 13-4 and another 3-peat in his first full seasons back.

Ultimately, Pippen's horrible comments have made people take off the "6 rings doh" goggles and see his game clearly - here's Cowherd realizing the truth about Pippen and then a couple longtime fans acknowledging things that the 6 rings hides:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_-JIbekYM&t=276s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbzR2W1JGGQ&t=06m15s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S9NOdvj1QY&t=50s

[HoopsNY]

Everyone was a better scorer and passer than Pippen, including Payton, Drexler, Grant Hill, Penny, Tim Hardaway, KJ, and many more..

Pippen's peaked at 22 and 5 apg, which is a garbage peak and lower than.... E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E

Phil Jackson was just saying whatever he thought would give his team the most confidence - when it mattered, he went with Kukoc

1994 Pippen

3rd in MVP voting
4th in PER
5th in VORP
3rd in BPM
9th in WS/48
2nd in Steals
8th in PPG

All-Defensive 1st Team
All-NBA 1st Team

This is Pippen in basically both 1994 and 1995, which is garbage to this nut job. Then what about the 90s as an era as a whole? It must have been trash if "garbage" Pippen was producing this well, garnering MVP votes and accolades WITHOUT the greatest player of all-time.

[Soundwave]

Penny and Grant Hill not being on that list is ridiculous, you can tell who wasn't actually watching 90s ball at this time. Grant Hill was so heavily marketed at the time he was on TV more than LeBron or Curry are.

The problem is both started suffering injuries and never got to realize their full potential, but offensively both were better than Pippen.

[MadDog]

Penny and Grant Hill not being on that list is ridiculous, you can tell who wasn't actually watching 90s ball at this time. Grant Hill was so heavily marketed at the time he was on TV more than LeBron or Curry are.

The problem is both started suffering injuries and never got to realize their full potential, but offensively both were better than Pippen.

Penny was a rookie in 94. And Grant Hill was one in 95. :oldlol: You're right. We can definitely tell who watched 90s ball.

[Bawkish]

You forgot Sprewell, if i remember correctly he was all-NBA 1st team in 1994?

one time against Phoenix, he screamed at Barkley on his face after getting passed him on the lane. Chuck just shrugged it off. He was trash talking Chuck all game long

Spree might be a head case, but you can't ignore the fact what he could bring and was so underrated that time

[StrongLurk]

You forgot Sprewell, if i remember correctly he was all-NBA 1st team in 1994?

one time against Phoenix, he screamed at Barkley on his face after getting passed him on the lane. Chuck just shrugged it off. He was trash talking Chuck all game long

Spree might be a head case, but you can't ignore the fact what he could bring and was so underrated that time

How the hell did Sprewell make all-nba first team in 94? He was definitely not on that kind of level...did he only make is because of positional restraints (i.e. they needed a SG specifically)? The rest of the team was Stockton, Hakeem, Pippen and Malone...which were FAR better than Sprewell who was just in his second year at that time.

The mid-to-late 90's were pretty strange for NBA talent.

Spreewell literally averaged 24/5/5 PER 100/POSS, which is like pretty good role players number lol...not first team all NBA. 15.9 PER, 1.9 BPM, 108 ORTG/107 DRTG...lol.

[3ba11]

1994 Pippen

3rd in MVP voting
4th in PER
5th in VORP
3rd in BPM
9th in WS/48
2nd in Steals
8th in PPG

All-Defensive 1st Team
All-NBA 1st Team

This is Pippen in basically both 1994 and 1995, which is garbage to this nut job. Then what about the 90s as an era as a whole? It must have been trash if "garbage" Pippen was producing this well, garnering MVP votes and accolades WITHOUT the greatest player of all-time.


^^^ that's a top 500 peak and below Kevin Love's peak - horrible - no top 100 player has a peak that low

and the most important numbers are the playoff numbers, which you can't post because Pippen's peak playoff numbers are top 2000, maybe - he never played at an all-time level in the playoffs.

Pippen averaged 22 and 5 assists as his peak performance in a season or series - aka complete trash

[97 bulls]

^^^ that's a top 500 peak and below Kevin Love's peak - horrible - no top 100 player has a peak that low

and the most important numbers are the playoff numbers, which you can't post because Pippen's peak playoff numbers are top 2000, maybe - he never played at an all-time level in the playoffs.

Pippen averaged 22 and 5 assists as his peak performance in a season or series - aka complete trash
I bet you really did take time and try to find 2000 players with better peak numbers than Scottie Pippen. Lol. Sad bro.

[MadDog]

You forgot Sprewell, if i remember correctly he was all-NBA 1st team in 1994?

one time against Phoenix, he screamed at Barkley on his face after getting passed him on the lane. Chuck just shrugged it off. He was trash talking Chuck all game long

Spree might be a head case, but you can't ignore the fact what he could bring and was so underrated that time

Nah didn't forget. Just don't think Spree was top 5 or above those guys. Could see an argument for Penny however he was still green. And a rookie in 94. Richmond aside, most of the dudes listed had good playoff success too.


I bet you really did take time and try to find 2000 players with better peak numbers than Scottie Pippen. Lol. Sad bro.

Think I've seen you debate he was better THAT YEAR than in 94. Who are your top 5 perimeter stars from 94/95? Was Pippen head honcho? lol

[Overdrive]

Pippen was the best perimeter player of the entire era behind Jordan, that was the consensus opinion at the time as well

Only Stockton has a argument over peak Pippen

The 90s were weird. Every year there was another 2nd best, heir to the throne guy. Penny and especially Grant Hill were definately in the mix in the later 90s.

Pippen was the most consistent highly ranked perimeter player after Jordan.

[ImKobe]

The 90s were weird. Every year there was another 2nd best, heir to the throne guy. Penny and especially Grant Hill were definately in the mix in the later 90s.

Pippen was the most consistent highly ranked perimeter player after Jordan.



RS (91-99)

Pippen: 20.9 PER, 54.5%TS, .180 WS/48, 5.7 BPM


Stockton: 22.4 PER, 61.5%TS, .213 WS/48, 7.5 BPM
Drexler: 21.2 PER, 54.8%TS, .183 WS/48, 5.7 BPM

Playoffs (91-99)

Pippen: 19.5 PER, 51.9%TS, .155 WS/48, 5.5 BPM

Stockton: 19.8 PER, 56.5%TS, .158 WS/48, 6.1 BPM
Drexler: 20.6 PER, 54.9%TS, .152 WS/48, 6.1 BPM

[ShawkFactory]

^^^ that's a top 500 peak and below Kevin Love's peak - horrible - no top 100 player has a peak that low

and the most important numbers are the playoff numbers, which you can't post because Pippen's peak playoff numbers are top 2000, maybe - he never played at an all-time level in the playoffs.

Pippen averaged 22 and 5 assists as his peak performance in a season or series - aka complete trash

He was top 5 or close to it in most of those categories for about 6 years straight

[HoopsNY]

^^^ that's a top 500 peak and below Kevin Love's peak - horrible - no top 100 player has a peak that low

and the most important numbers are the playoff numbers, which you can't post because Pippen's peak playoff numbers are top 2000, maybe - he never played at an all-time level in the playoffs.

Pippen averaged 22 and 5 assists as his peak performance in a season or series - aka complete trash

Genius wants to move the goal posts now. Before it's "Pippen rode MJ's legacy on a championship team," but when he's getting All-NBA 1st Team selections, top DPOY votes, top MVP votes, and All-Defensive 1st Team selections WITHOUT MJ, there's crickets.

And this guy brings up Kevin Love as if Love ever led a team into the playoffs, let alone a top seed without a player named LeBron. Unreal how he cherry picks and moves the goal posts/parameters as he debates.

Unreal

[97 bulls]

Nah didn't forget. Just don't think Spree was top 5 or above those guys. Could see an argument for Penny however he was still green. And a rookie in 94. Richmond aside, most of the dudes listed had good playoff success too.



Think I've seen you debate he was better THAT YEAR than in 94. Who are your top 5 perimeter stars from 94/95? Was Pippen head honcho? lol

Pippen was the best in my opinion. Followed by Hardaway, Miller, Richmond, and Stockton.

You cant discount that what Pippen did in 95 has only been done in 4 other times in NBA history. And hes the only player that ran the offense and anchored the defense.

[3ba11]

Genius wants to move the goal posts now. Before it's "Pippen rode MJ's legacy on a championship team," but when he's getting All-NBA 1st Team selections, top DPOY votes, top MVP votes, and All-Defensive 1st Team selections WITHOUT MJ, there's crickets.

And this guy brings up Kevin Love as if Love ever led a team into the playoffs, let alone a top seed without a player named LeBron. Unreal how he cherry picks and moves the goal posts/parameters as he debates.

Unreal


Blake Griffin got #3 for MVP just like Pippen - that's Pippen's caliber - a Blake Griffin level player at his peak..

And all-nba is a media award - they gave Kobe a few extra all-defense that he didn't deserve, and Pippen got a few extra all-nba's for the same reason - winning spotlight and association with MJ.

Any stat that measures Pippen's production has him about 150th - PER, WS/48, OBPM, ORTG, TS, peak VORP, etc - .. It's consistent, but the 6 rings inflated him.

And everyone has won 55 games, except only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat - 55 wins for a team pursuing a 4-peat is pedestrian.

Finally, if everyone on a team was a worse scorer than Horace Grant (if Horace was 1st option), the team would win 0 games... Yet Love won 40 in the West with zero help - so he was a good 1st option that gets unfairly criticized.. Ultimately, Pippen's peak stats < Love's

[CountDracula]

Glenn “The Booker Assassin” Rice

https://i.ibb.co/58pWJVH/FB425-D04-47-B7-4920-AB78-3-F579-D61-DCBC.jpg (https://ibb.co/xj9SrQT)

https://i.ibb.co/Nx9XT4y/6-A9-BFCB0-0421-489-B-A539-FF0734644-D0-A.jpg (https://ibb.co/31pwRJC)

https://i.ibb.co/QQxnjTx/BA767619-3-C36-48-AC-A7-F1-4-E4519-F02357.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

[MadDog]

Pippen was the best in my opinion. Followed by Hardaway, Miller, Richmond, and Stockton.

You cant discount that what Pippen did in 95 has only been done in 4 other times in NBA history. And hes the only player that ran the offense and anchored the defense.

Yeah Pippen put up nice numbers. Wouldn't disagree with anyone saying he was the best perimeter player. Finishing Top 3 in MVP was impressive, given he competed with Robinson and Hakeem. Like that you gave Rock a shout too. Awesome player on both ends, and could shoot lights out. His play was right there with Reggie's.

[HoopsNY]

Blake Griffin got #3 for MVP just like Pippen - that's Pippen's caliber - a Blake Griffin level player at his peak

Cherry picking and moving the goal posts again. Compare Blake's advanced stats in that year to Pippen's by ranking.

Blake 2013-14

PER: 9th
BPM: 15th
VORP: 11th
WS/48: 8th
OBPM: 13th
DWS: 14th
TS%: 58%

Pippen 1993-94

PER: 4th
BPM: 3rd
VORP: 5th
WS/48: 9th
OBPM: 4th
DWS: 7th
TS%: 54%

Pippen obliterates Blake in the very categories you typically choose to focus on. Not to mention, the Clippers won 57 games and Blake had Chris Paul as a running mate. Give Pippen a Chris Paul in 1994 and what happens? :lol


And all-nba is a media award - they gave Kobe a few extra all-defense that he didn't deserve, and Pippen got a few extra all-nba's for the same reason - winning spotlight and association with MJ.

He completely deserved them between 1994-96, so your point is irrelevant. Even if you were to discount Pippen's playoff performances between 1996-98, he was a solid second option between 1991-93. Let's say Pippen ends up with 3 titles instead of 6; he would still be regarded as a great second option, and the best one to do it during the 90s.


Any stat that measures Pippen's production has him about 150th - PER, WS/48, OBPM, ORTG, TS, peak VORP, etc - .. It's consistent, but the 6 rings inflated him.


Moving the goal posts again. We're discussing 1994 and 1995 here. I listed his rankings in those various categories. He was elite, period.


And everyone has won 55 games, except only Pippen was pursuing a 4-peat - 55 wins for a team pursuing a 4-peat is pedestrian.


Not when they lose their best player. That's the point.

[julizaver]

To all of you - the reason for Phil to choose Kukoc for final shot vs Knicks is very very simple, Tony Kukoc in his rookie season already made 3 last second game winning shots this season before the game vs Knicks. All of them on Youtube (the one vs Reggie Miller's Indiana is very popular). And also Kukoc had the Durant frame adn height and he is tougher to defend on the perimeter. So if you have the player who already won 3 games for you with the buzzer, who you take for the last shot in the most important game of the season ? This is the main reason for Phil choosing Kukoc instead of Pippen for that shot.

[ScottieQuitting]

Penny
Hill
Drexler
Pippen
Richmond

HM: Spreewell and Reggie