Old and destroyed CP3 about to be a legitimate FMVP shows how stupid fans are.

[999Guy]

And have been for literally almost a decade and a half (since 2008) judging his career.

Any excuse on why he’s about to win against the odds is a good ****ing example of why judging him for being the best defender on his Clippers teams or having Trevor Ariza as a second option in 2011 was always and will always be dumb.

He’s about to win a title as the man in a loaded-as-**** era too.

And you have people who actually believe stuff like Isiah Thomas ever being close to him, when he’s 6 foot and legitimately slow, and can still do 41/8 0 TOV close out games.


And he wasn’t always slow. He actually had real speed and athleticism AND 41 on just jumpers type skill for a good chunk of his career.

And dummies truly believed he’s worse than guys he outclasses on every level because of rAnGZ. Well invent a new way to be stupid about his career because it’s over now.

[RRR3]

Hearing people say Isiah Thomas is better is legitimately hysterically funny.

[coastalmarker99]

Hearing people say Isiah Thomas is better is legitimately hysterically funny.


Isaiah was a killer that stepped up in the biggest moments for his teams and he was a bs call from leading a team to a three-peat plus winning 2 finals MVPS in that same time frame from 1988 to 1990.


There is zero arguments that you can make for CP3 over Zeke when you consider those factors.

[999Guy]

Isaiah was a killer that stepped up in the biggest moments for his teams and he was a bs call from leading a team to a three-peat plus winning 2 finals MVPS in that same time frame from 1988 to 1990.


There is zero arguments that you can make for CP3 over Zeke when you consider those factors.

They’re dumb factors so I won’t consider them. Do they see how easy logic is?

[coastalmarker99]

If Zeke hadn't been robbed of a title and finals Mvp in 1988.


Then he would have

A 2 0 edge over Magic in the playoffs to go along with

a 3 1 edge over Jordan in the playoffs

And a 3 1 edge over Bird in the playoffs as well.

[999Guy]

If Zeke hadn't been robbed of a title and finals Mvp in 1988.


Then he would have

A 2 0 edge over Magic

Plus a 3 1 edge over Jordan

And a 3 1 edge over Bird.

So let’s go further here. What the **** am I supposed to conclude Isiah Thomas was relative to those guys?


Let’s boil this down: Was Isiah better than ANY of those ****ing guys?

[Spurs m8]

Not taking anything away from him, but this threads a bit dramatic lol

Didn't he average like 9 points and a few assists and rebounds in round 1 these playoffs?

He almost shot them out of the Clippers series too.

He's also not even guaranteed the finals win...and even then, still not even guaranteed the fmvp.

Good on him if he pulls this all off....but let's not get too out of sorts here

[999Guy]

Not taking anything away from him, but this threads a bit dramatic lol

Didn't he average like 9 points and a few assists and rebounds in round 1 these playoffs?

He almost shot them out of the Clippers series too.

He's also not even guaranteed the finals win...and even then, still not even guaranteed the fmvp.

Good on him if he pulls this all off....but let's not get too out of sorts here

Now let’s continue the type of logic you just used but apply it somewhere more relevant.

Like his past career.


Didn’t he do shit like 27/11/5 efficiently against Utah with Austin Rivers as a second option in 2017?

And nobody cares and it’s seen as a negative on his career


Didn’t he dominate defending champs LA in 2011 on both ends with Trevor Ariza as his second option and it’s seen as a bad first round knock out on his record.


Didn’t he absolutely murder-rape Lillard in 2016’s first round, like Shaq against Mutumbo him, like worse than Hakeem vs D-Rob him, and I saw an idiot on this forum actually say it was a bad series because he broke his hand and Griffin broke his something and they lost?


I could go on.

It doesn’t matter what he’s done. The fact that he most likely will win a title as the man in his destroyed state just shows how stupid it is to judge guys on winning titles. And automatically see any non-title year as a sort of negative.

[coin24]

Go bucks :lol

[999Guy]

Go bucks :lol

I mean this is really an idiots last defense against how stupid he’s been for over a decade judging his career.

Now hoping a sloppy athletic Greek man can ruin Chris Paul’s day.


And I genuinely don’t think it’ll happen. I think PHX is super loaded with big wings that can guard Holliday and Middleton, and really deal with Giannis and guard him much like Miami did.

Booker is getting locked down possibly though. It’ll probably be an ugly grind out. But Phoenix is just a better team IMO. I think it’ll be shown.

[RRR3]

Go bucks :lol
Poor desperate Shew shivering in fear of yet another player surpassing his hero :lol

[Gohan]

lmao bucks probably will win but yall keep counting them unhatched chickens

[DoctorP]

happy for cp but he's not the man. he's 1B to Bookers 1A

Great career tho for the runt

[paksat]

he's the best point guard i've ever seen, but he's not winning the title

curry is a better scorer, but he doesn't affect the game the way cp3 does.

literally his only weakness is he doesn't shoot more

he's older now so he gets crossed up some times, but pre-injury he's absolutely flawless

[Gohan]

he's the best point guard i've ever seen, but he's not winning the title

curry is a better scorer, but he doesn't affect the game the way cp3 does.

literally his only weakness is he doesn't shoot more

he's older now so he gets crossed up some times, but pre-injury he's absolutely flawless

curry is much better than paul and it isnt close

[paksat]

curry is much better than paul and it isnt close

The issue I have with that is pre injury cp3 would lock curry up

[Jacks3]

OP thinks Paul George is as good as MVP Kobe. He's an idiot.

[Carbine]

And have been for literally almost a decade and a half (since 2008) judging his career.

Any excuse on why he’s about to win against the odds is a good ****ing example of why judging him for being the best defender on his Clippers teams or having Trevor Ariza as a second option in 2011 was always and will always be dumb.

He’s about to win a title as the man in a loaded-as-**** era too.

And you have people who actually believe stuff like Isiah Thomas ever being close to him, when he’s 6 foot and legitimately slow, and can still do 41/8 0 TOV close out games.


And he wasn’t always slow. He actually had real speed and athleticism AND 41 on just jumpers type skill for a good chunk of his career.

And dummies truly believed he’s worse than guys he outclasses on every level because of rAnGZ. Well invent a new way to be stupid about his career because it’s over now.

Loaded as **** era?

Look at who the Suns have beaten in the playoffs and who they were missing. It's the luckiest and weakest run to a title of all time.

It would be like Sergio winning his first grand slam without the 10 best golfers playing in it. Or like some dude winning a grand slam in Tennis without Fed, Nadal, Joker in it. That's what this run feels like, because every-single-series the other team has been down their best or second best player.

[NBAGOAT]

isiah definitely gets overrated here. He's better in the playoffs no doubt but plenty of other pgs are, they just dont have as good rosters as he did and therefore didnt win. Playing with laimbeer, rodman, dumars, aguirre would be the modern equivalent of playing with like gasol, draymond, klay, and middleton in idk 2018, that's a loaded top 5 for a good point guard though yes none of the 4 are superstars. Yes there have been more stacked teams but not too many. Magic in 88 had kareem as a role player so his main help was just worthy and scott, the lakers werent that stacked by then.

Edit: though yes cp3's run isnt crazy impressive though he's had some fantastic games because of injuries and some bad games. He was definitely better last year. I still call him phx's best player because booker has been inconsistent too and was worse during the rs however. Beating a healthy milwaukee would be impressive

[999Guy]

Loaded as **** era?

Look at who the Suns have beaten in the playoffs and who they were missing. It's the luckiest and weakest run to a title of all time.

It would be like Sergio winning his first grand slam without the 10 best golfers playing in it. Or like some dude winning a grand slam in Tennis without Fed, Nadal, Joker in it. That's what this run feels like, because every-single-series the other team has been down their best or second best player.

I would bet my life Magic Johnson has multiple weaker title runs.
And do you realize you just made my point?

You can get lucky and win? You don’t think the opposite happens? You don’t think judging players cares by pure W/L in a crazy narrow set of circumstances is dumb?

[AirBonner]

The real question is:

Is Chris Paul done choking?

[Carbine]

I would bet my life Magic Johnson has multiple weaker title runs.
And do you realize you just made my point?

You can get lucky and win? You don’t think the opposite happens? You don’t think judging players cares by pure W/L in a crazy narrow set of circumstances is dumb?

Magic always played a signature team in the finals. Everyone knows who the early 80's 76ers are, who the 80's Celtics are and who the Bad Boy Pistons are.

[tpols]

The issue I have with that is pre injury cp3 would lock curry up

Curry has HOF averages vs Chris Paul in the playoffs. And a winning record. CP3's elite defense is a myth. He's never locked anybody up in the playoffs.

[tpols]

I would bet my life Magic Johnson has multiple weaker title runs.
And do you realize you just made my point?

You can get lucky and win? You don’t think the opposite happens? You don’t think judging players cares by pure W/L in a crazy narrow set of circumstances is dumb?

Imagine if Bird, Thomas, Moses and Dr. J all missed the Finals in the 80s vs the Lakers. That's what the Suns got going for them now.

[TheCorporation]

Hearing people say Isiah Thomas is better is legitimately hysterically funny.

+1

At this point the only people saying this are retarded MJ trolls or old heads that don't understand the game. Chris Paul is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Isiah ****ing Thomas and it's not even close.

[MadDog]

+1

At this point the only people saying this are retarded MJ trolls or old heads that don't understand the game. Chris Paul is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Isiah ****ing Thomas and it's not even close.

Led b2b teams to championships, had a monster finals, won a FMVP, and was one bad call away from three-peating. Somehow Paul is "light years" better though. Shut up.

[Shogon]

Any excuse on why he’s about to win against the odds...

Against the odds?

https://i.postimg.cc/28fkdrZT/haha.gif

[999Guy]

Magic always played a signature team in the finals. Everyone knows who the early 80's 76ers are, who the 80's Celtics are and who the Bad Boy Pistons are.

Magic always played a pathetic piece of shit group of teams in the West led by literal championship 5th options and bad defenses in some shitty combination.

Meanwhile Chris Paul spent his career staring prime Curry, Durant, Westbrook, Spurs, Harden, Kawhi, Kobe, and Dirk in the face before you even get to think about the conference finals.

Even an injured playoff run in 2021 is gonna be better than anything from the 80’s West.

He still saw LeBron + an elite defense, peak Jokic, an obviously title level team missing their first option(94 Bulls level), and now the Bucks who will probably have Giannis a MVP + DPOY with good help.

And it’s not like the Lakers faced a healthy Bird/McHale/Thomas every finals.

The second Magic started seeing real talent in the West, he started losing and having close calls. Stockton, KJ, Hakeem. If he sees the 2010’s talent pool? He’s at best just another guy in the trenches of the West.


Never ever just dominating the conference.
The era is loaded, Magic’s wasn’t at all in reality, and Chris Paul is at half his prime ability and he’s still about to win as the man. Hell as the “choker” man. Dummies.

[Carbine]

Congrats man, you just compared a Clippers team that has never made a final to the three peat Bulls losing MJ.

[Gohan]

magic always played a pathetic piece of shit group of teams in the west led by literal championship 5th options and bad defenses in some shitty combination.

Meanwhile chris paul spent his career staring prime curry, durant, westbrook, spurs, harden, kawhi, kobe, and dirk in the face before you even get to think about the conference finals.

Even an injured playoff run in 2021 is gonna be better than anything from the 80’s west.

He still saw lebron + an elite defense, peak jokic, an obviously title level team missing their first option(94 bulls level), and now the bucks who will probably have giannis a mvp + dpoy with good help.

And it’s not like the lakers faced a healthy bird/mchale/thomas every finals.

The second magic started seeing real talent in the west, he started losing and having close calls. Stockton, kj, hakeem. If he sees the 2010’s talent pool? He’s at best just another guy in the trenches of the west.


Never ever just dominating the conference.
The era is loaded, magic’s wasn’t at all in reality, and chris paul is at half his prime ability and he’s still about to win as the man. Hell as the “choker” man. Dummies.

nikka cp3 aint winning shit. They going home in 6

[FKAri]

People refuse to believe he's as unlucky as he's been in his career. Simple as that. And nothing wrong with that. If I flip heads 6 times in a row, you should be suspicious.

[hold this L]

Currently the 3rd best player during this PS on his team, first time he's ever made the NBA finals.
Clear cut 2nd best player in the PS during his only NBA conference finals beforehand.

[coastalmarker99]

Hearing people say Isiah Thomas is better is legitimately hysterically funny.

Have you changed your mind now as what makes CP3 who chokes a lot often in the playoffs better then Zeke who was the leader of two title-winning teams and was a bad call from leading his teams to a three-peat from 1988 to 1990

[hold this L]

Have you changed your mind now as what makes CP3 who chokes a lot often in the playoffs better then Zeke who was the leader of two title-winning teams and was a bad call from leading his teams to a three-peat from 1988 to 1990
Zeke nearly had 3 titles on one of the hardest paths ever. Just look at his competition. It's disgusting how history has treated this man, whose clearly the 3rd best PG of all time (yeah, ahead of Oscar IMO).

[tontoz]

Zeke wasnt even close to CP3. Compare Paul's current teammates to Isiah's teammates on the Bad Boy Pistons.

Zeke was a weak shooter from everywhere outside 3 feet. He had DPOY Rodman to guard Bird and 1st team All-NBA defense Dumars to guard Jordan. He also had Laimbeer/Mahorn/Salley patrolling the paint. He had Aguirre (25 ppg in Dallas) coming off the bench.

But people act like he carried that team. :oldlol:

[hold this L]

Zeke wasnt even close to CP3. Compare Paul's current teammates to Isiah's teammates on the Bad Boy Pistons.

Zeke was a weak shooter from everywhere outside 3 feet. He had DPOY Rodman to guard Bird and 1st team All-NBA defense Dumars to guard Jordan. He also had Laimbeer/Mahorn/Salley patrolling the paint. He had Aguirre (25 ppg in Dallas) coming off the bench.

But people act like he carried that team. :oldlol:
Nobody said he didn't play in a good team, that's not an argument. Guy bested 3 players in their prime that are all top 10 all time from different teams. Doesn't make him better than those guys, but it shows the level that he was going up against. Are we acting like Bird, Magic, and Jordan didn't have amazing teams when they played? The GOAT himself is 1-9 in the playoffs until he got some help.

and, explain this to me


Currently the 3rd best player during this PS on his team, first time he's ever made the NBA finals.
Clear cut 2nd best player in the PS during his only NBA conference finals beforehand.

Zeke was the clear best player on that team. FOH with that. Zeke and Oscar are both on another tier compared to CP3. CP3 if he wins is there with Stockton and Nash. If he doesn't win this year though, I don't even want to hear anyone putting him in any top 5 lists.

[RogueBorg]

Zeke nearly had 3 titles on one of the hardest paths ever. Just look at his competition. It's disgusting how history has treated this man, whose clearly the 3rd best PG of all time (yeah, ahead of Oscar IMO).

I can't stand Chris Paul almost as much as I hate Isiah Thomas so I don't favor one player over the other. The problem when evaluating CP3 for me is yes, he has a career full of post-season failures. Despite all of that he has this amazing resume full of accolades that matches up favorably with any PG in history. IT was a great player no doubt, but he only has 5x All-NBA's to CP3's 10x. IT never led the league in assists while CP3 has done it 4x. IT never led the league in steals while CP3 has 6x. IT never made an All-Defensive team while CP3 has 9x. The Bad Boys were known for the defense yet Isiah never was recognized as a great defender. I'm not advocating one over the other, but CP3 is extremely accomplished.

That being said, I LMAO when he fell and turned the ball over late in the game last night. I can't stand the guy.

[tontoz]

Nobody said he didn't play in a good team, that's not an argument. Guy bested 3 players in their prime that are all top 10 all time from different teams. Doesn't make him better than those guys, but it shows the level that he was going up against. Are we acting like Bird, Magic, and Jordan didn't have amazing teams when they played? The GOAT himself is 1-9 in the playoffs until he got some help.

and, explain this to me



Zeke was the clear best player on that team. FOH with that. Zeke and Oscar are both on another tier compared to CP3. CP3 if he wins is there with Stockton and Nash. If he doesn't win this year though, I don't even want to hear anyone putting him in any top 5 lists.

Nonsense. Zeke wasn't even 3rd team All-NBA during their title years. That team won because of their defense which Isiah had little to do with. They had two of the best defenders in the league to play man D on Bird and Jordan while Zeke was guarding Paxon.

He was a weak shooter from everywhere outside 3 feet and wasn't a good defender. He wasn't even the best guard on his own team, let alone better than Bird/MJ/Magic.

Saying he "bested" Bird/MJ/Magic is :facepalm. The Pistons beat those teams and Isiah wasnt even close to the same level as those guys, he just had better teammates.

[tontoz]

Here are Isiah's stats during their title years:

88-89 18/8 TS 53%
89-90 18/9 TS 50%

:sleeping


Keep in mind he was 27 when they won their first title. His last All-NBA team was in '87 at age 25.

He was completely washed by 30 and out of the league at 32. CP3 is in the Finals at 36.

[ImKobe]

Here are Isiah's stats during their title years:

88-89 18/8 TS 53%
89-90 18/9 TS 50%

:sleeping


Keep in mind he was 27 when they won their first title. His last All-NBA team was in '87 at age 25.

Why are you using RS averages? Zeke averaged 21/6/8/2 on 56%TS in their 1990 title run btw w/ 28/5/7 on 62.9%TS in the Finals.

[3ba11]

it shows how weak today's era is

[DMAVS41]

He's getting way too much hate for how good he's been at this age. He deserves a legacy boost for being this good in year 16 and I still think the Suns win this series and I'd bet quite a bit that Paul plays great in game 5.

However, to the point of the thread...nothing that is happening now changes the past or should change much about where he's ranked. He's one of the best players ever and I think he's the 3rd or 4th best point ever depending on where you put Oscar. Potentially behind only Magic and Curry. I can't remember the thread, but people were calling me a "hater" for ranking him like 28th all time a couple years ago. I think somewhere around the 30 mark is fair...with some potential to move up more if he continues to play at such a high level the next couple years.

To the point about him being "unlucky"...sure, that is true...but injuries and meltdowns matter when evaluating a career, especially when playoff success has been so limited...and this playoffs has been more of the same from him. He's been great overall, but has been dealing with injuries and some weird performances. Talking about luck...I don't know what else you can call it other than amazingly good luck that he could put up a 9/4/8 44% TS series against the Lakers and win.

Conversely, doing 19/4/9 58% TS and leading this team in the playoffs is immensely impressive at his age.

Paul fans are just tough...they want people to concede that he's a "flawless basketball player with no weaknesses"...etc....and they think it is absolutely insane not to rank him with some of the elite of the elite players all-time...

And, I'm sure I'll get called a "hater" again...he just hasn't been good enough or consistent enough to get in that class of a player.

I hope the Suns win and Chris gets his ring...I really do...but last night was rough and will really be a part of his legacy (obviously in a terrible way) if they lose this series. Hopefully that doesn't happen because then his greatness will go under appreciated.

[coastalmarker99]

Why are you using RS averages? Zeke averaged 21/6/8/2 on 56%TS in their 1990 title run btw w/ 28/5/7 on 62.9%TS in the Finals.


Zeke stepped up his play in the biggest moments, unlike CP3 you can't tell me that CP3 could replicate the performance that Zeke had in game 6 of the 1988 finals when he scored 43 points and had 8 assists to go along with 6 steals all the while being on a busted ankle.




Without that Phantom Foul at end of the game, Zeke performance would have gone down as a top 3 single finals game of all time.


And he would now have a 3 peat to go along with 2 finals MVP so yeah that Phantom Foul call still pisses me off as a massive Zeke fan every time I see it.


As you wouldn't be able to sweep him and the Bad boys under the rung if they had three-peated from 1988 to 1990 and had become the first team to do the feat since the 1960's Celtics.

[Wally450]

CP3 will continue to get hate if they drop this series especially if he plays the way he did in Game 4. He'll play better back in Phoenix.

[tontoz]

Why are you using RS averages? Zeke averaged 21/6/8/2 on 56%TS in their 1990 title run btw w/ 28/5/7 on 62.9%TS in the Finals.

Sample size. When you cherry pick, like you are doing here, you come up with skewed results. For his career his regular season and playoff numbers are literally identical.

Notice how you completely ignored his postseason during their first title which were identical to the regular season.

Isiah played in 197 games (regular season and playoffs) during those two seasons. But lets just look at 20 games out of those 197 to make him look better than he was. :facepalm

[tontoz]

Isiah's playoff averages after their title years:

13.5/8.5 with 49% TS at age 29
14/7 with a 45% TS at age 30

Meanwhile at age 36 CP3 is averaging 19/9 with a TS 57.5% in the playoffs.

[warriorfan]

Isiah's playoff averages after their title years:

13.5/8.5 with 49% TS at age 29
14/7 with a 45% TS at age 30

Meanwhile at age 36 CP3 is averaging 19/9 with a TS 57.5% in the playoffs.

Today’s game is much easier for perimeter players to produce, especially small guards.

[DMAVS41]

Isiah's playoff averages after their title years:

13.5/8.5 with 49% TS at age 29
14/7 with a 45% TS at age 30

Meanwhile at age 36 CP3 is averaging 19/9 with a TS 57.5% in the playoffs.

I'd take Paul over Zeke, but those numbers are a bit misleading given the different eras and sports medicine...etc.

Not to mention that Paul has struggled with his health many times throughout this career as well...and, outside of pure luck, wasn't close to good enough in round 1 to get out under normal circumstances.

[tontoz]

Today’s game is much easier for perimeter players to produce, especially small guards.

While that is true there were pgs producing far better than Isiah in that era. Sub 50 TS sucked in that era too, especially among top players.

Like i said he made his last All-NBA team at age 25. The competition got better and he didn't.

[ImKobe]

Isiah's playoff averages after their title years:

13.5/8.5 with 49% TS at age 29
14/7 with a 45% TS at age 30

Meanwhile at age 36 CP3 is averaging 19/9 with a TS 57.5% in the playoffs.

He was hurt in '91 and had a game against Boston where he played 15 minutes due to foul trouble so that brought down his averages.

Small guards did not age well in his era, he's the first small guard to lead a team to a championship as the best player, I guess Curry's the 2nd but some might not consider him small at 6-3.

[warriorfan]

While that is true there were pgs producing far better than Isiah in that era. Sub 50 TS sucked in that era too, especially among top players.

Like i said he made his last All-NBA team at age 25. The competition got better and he didn't.

Paul’s kinda suck for this era too. 19/9 doesn’t really mean shit anymore.

[coastalmarker99]

Today’s game is much easier for perimeter players to produce, especially small guards.

:applause:

Someone gets it.

[tontoz]

He was hurt in '91 and had a game against Boston where he played 15 minutes and couldn't finish the game which brought down his averages as well.

Small guards did not age well in his era, he's the first small guard to lead a team to a championship as the best player, I guess Curry's the 2nd but some might not consider him small at 6-3.


First i would argue that he wasn't their best player, or even their best guard, during their title years.

Secondly even when measured against his peers he just wasn't that good.

[tontoz]

Paul’s kinda suck for this era too. 19/9 doesn’t really mean shit anymore.

He is doing it at age 36. Isiah was out of the league at 32.

Isiah was in his 20s during their title years.

[warriorfan]

Zeke was a warrior who’s team would die for him. He commanded respect from his teammates and opponents. He’s a leader.

Cp3 is a little flopping bitch who cried all the time. He has poor body language. I don’t think his teammates really like him too much. You could argue cp3 is more skilled than Thomas but he gets blown out of the water when it comes to intangibles.

That’s just my opinion.

[ImKobe]

First i would argue that he wasn't their best player, or even their best guard, during their title years.

Secondly even when measured against his peers he just wasn't that good.

Cmon man, he clearly was in 1990. 21/6/8/2 in the Playoffs with 28/5/7 in the Finals. Led his team in points, assists & steals and in all the advanced metrics. You can argue 1989 but even then I'd say he was the best as he led his team in points, assists & steals again and in PER, BPM & VORP.

[DMAVS41]

Zeke was a warrior who’s team would die for him. He commanded respect from his teammates and opponents. He’s a leader.

Cp3 is a little flopping bitch who cried all the time. He has poor body language. I don’t think his teammates really like him too much. You could argue cp3 is more skilled than Thomas but he gets blown out of the water when it comes to intangibles.

That’s just my opinion.

I think a lot of what you say about Paul is true, but that doesn't change the fact that Paul is and has been a great player that I think gets under-rated at times because of the injuries, meltdowns, and his personality. I don't think we should ignore those things, but he's also one of the best players ever.

Where he ranks...I don't know, but I think it is higher than even diehard NBA fans would think at first glance.

[tontoz]

Zeke was a warrior who’s team would die for him. He commanded respect from his teammates and opponents. He’s a leader.

Cp3 is a little flopping bitch who cried all the time. He has poor body language. I don’t think his teammates really like him too much. You could argue cp3 is more skilled than Thomas but he gets blown out of the water when it comes to intangibles.

That’s just my opinion that is.

Intangibles is the argument people bring up when the actual production is weak. Isiah's production just wasn't that good.

CP3 has won everywhere he has been. Nobody expected OKC to be as good as they were when he was there. Nobody expected the Suns to be in the Finals this year. He has elevated every team he's been on.

I don't like his flopping either but i can't deny his production.

[DMAVS41]

Intangibles is the argument people bring up when the actual production is weak. Isiah's production just wasn't that good.

CP3 has won everywhere he has been. Nobody expected OKC to be as good as they were when he was there. Nobody expected the Suns to be in the Finals this year. He has elevated every team he's been on.

I don't like his flopping either but i can't deny his production.

He no doubt has elevated teams...that is what great players do. But he'd be at home this year...wouldn't even have made round 2...if not for great play by his teammates and luck...so I'd be careful giving him all the credit for this Suns run.

I'm interested to know where you'd currently rank Paul all-time.

[tontoz]

Cmon man, he clearly was in 1990. 21/6/8/2 in the Playoffs with 28/5/7 in the Finals. Led his team in points, assists & steals and in all the advanced metrics. You can argue 1989 but even then I'd say he was the best as he led his team in points, assists & steals again and in PER, BPM & VORP.


Again with the 20 game sample size. Without Dumars guarding Jordan they don't make the Finals. He was 1st team All-NBA defense in both their title runs while averaging 17-18 ppg regular season and playoffs.

[warriorfan]

Intangibles is the argument people bring up when the actual production is weak. Isiah's production just wasn't that good.

CP3 has won everywhere he has been. Nobody expected OKC to be as good as they were when he was there. Nobody expected the Suns to be in the Finals this year. He has elevated every team he's been on.

I don't like his flopping either but i can't deny his production.

I understand it being considered a weak argument since it is almost impossible to objectively quantify exactly. That’s why I said it’s just my opinion. Cp3 wouldn’t have pulled off the ankle game. His flopping and crying when demarcus cousins literally breathes on him wouldn’t have flown in that era. Cp3’s production would certainly drop. If I asked you right now who is the better leader, Isiah or cp3? Who would you answer?

[tontoz]

He no doubt has elevated teams...that is what great players do. But he'd be at home this year...wouldn't even have made round 2...if not for great play by his teammates and luck...so I'd be careful giving him all the credit for this Suns run.

I'm interested to know where you'd currently rank Paul all-time.

If anything i think Paul has gotten too much credit for the Suns success this year. They were 1 game away from the playoffs last year. This year they also added Crowder. But it isn't just about this year when he is 36.

I would say he is definitely a top 5 pg all time. The only one i would take over him decisively is Magic, and Oscar if you consider him a pg. I typically leave him out because i never watched him.

Stockton is iffy. More reliable health wise but not as dangerous as a scorer.

Nash is also a question mark. An argument can be made either way.

Steph...depends on the team. Hard to compare them because their games are so different.

I don't see an argument for anyone else over CP3.

[tontoz]

I understand it being considered a weak argument since it is almost impossible to objectively quantify exactly. That’s why I said it’s just my opinion. Cp3 wouldn’t have pulled off the ankle game. His flopping and crying when demarcus cousins literally breathes on him wouldn’t have flown in that era. Cp3’s production would certainly drop. If I asked you right now who is the better leader, Isiah or cp3? Who would you answer?


I would say CP3, because he has elevated multiple teams. Isiah only did it on one team with a stacked roster. How would he have done with the Suns this year or OKC last year? I'll take CP3.

[DMAVS41]

If anything i think Paul has gotten too much credit for the Suns success this year. They were 1 game away from the playoffs last year. This year they also added Crowder. But it isn't just about this year when he is 36.

I would say he is definitely a top 5 pg all time. The only one i would take over him decisively is Magic, and Oscar if you consider him a pg. I typically leave him out because i never watched him.

Stockton is iffy. More reliable health wise but not as dangerous as a scorer.

Nash is also a question mark. An argument can be made either way.

Steph...depends on the team. Hard to compare them because their games are so different.

I don't see an argument for anyone else over CP3.

Pretty much agree with that outside of Curry...I think he's the better player....so I'd rank Paul 4th all-time as a point behind Magic/Oscar/Steph.

Where would you rank Paul in terms of all players?

[warriorfan]

I would say CP3, because he has elevated multiple teams. Isiah only did it on one team with a stacked roster. How would he have done with the Suns this year or OKC last year? I'll take CP3.

That’s fair. On the flip side I don’t think CP3 wins anything with Detroit. He can’t stay healthy for a playoff run in the cupcake era. It would be a nightmare for him with even more physical play.

[tontoz]

Pretty much agree with that outside of Curry...I think he's the better player....so I'd rank Paul 4th all-time as a point behind Magic/Oscar/Steph.

Where would you rank Paul in terms of all players?

I love Steph but he is so different from Paul. Huge playmaking difference between them but also a huge scoring difference. Not sure how to weigh both.

I don't like doing the rankings across positions.

[DMAVS41]

I love Steph but he is so different from Paul. Huge playmaking difference between them but also a huge scoring difference. Not sure how to weigh both.

I don't like doing the rankings across positions.

Yes, they are different...however I think it is pretty clear that what Steph brings to a team is more valuable.

Fair enough.

[Carbine]

People considering Curry a PG is kind of questionable. He doesn't play like Nash, Kidd, CP3, Magic, etc at all.

He's really a shooting guard with a good pick and roll game. But the way he has played, he is not a pace setter or ball dominator or high assist guy. He has usually averaged 5-6 assists per game his career.

[dankok8]

This title will give CP3 a case over Isiah in many people's eyes but it's far from laughable to call Isiah better.

[coin24]

Thomas shits on chris small..

Prime deron >>>> cp0:oldlol:

[tontoz]

Yes, they are different...however I think it is pretty clear that what Steph brings to a team is more valuable.

Fair enough.


Paul did make 9 All-NBA defense teams. I would say Steph was not as bad on defense as some people claim. I would say he is roughly average to slightly below average.

Offensively Steph is a unicorn. I get so tired of the Steph trolls on here.

I am fine with people saying Steph is better or Paul is better.

[ImKobe]

Again with the 20 game sample size. Without Dumars guarding Jordan they don't make the Finals. He was 1st team All-NBA defense in both their title runs while averaging 17-18 ppg regular season and playoffs.

I can't give you a bigger sample size on a title run lol. Thomas was the best player but he had a great team, just as Magic & Bird did in that same era. He was a tier below them but so is CP3, but Zeke's more accomplished so Paul has to win this championship and be great in these remaining games for me to change my stance. It's incredibly hard to win titles and Zeke was the engine & the leader of those Pistons' squads.

[tontoz]

I can't give you a bigger sample size on a title run lol. Thomas was the best player but he had a great team, just as Magic & Bird did in that same era. He was a tier below them but so is CP3, but Zeke's more accomplished so Paul has to win this championship and be great in these remaining games for me to change my stance. It's incredibly hard to win titles and Zeke was the engine & the leader of those Pistons' squads.

Isiah has literally half the All-NBA selections compared to Paul. Not to mention that Paul has 9 All-NBA defense selections. Isiah 0.

The Pistons toughest competition was the Bulls and Dumars was the key to those series because he went head to head with Jordan while Isiah guarded Paxon who was just a spot up shooter and not a great defender. Dumars also won Finals MVP in their first title run which you are trying so hard to ignore. In the finals he averaged 27 ppg with a 66% TS.

Dumars also was the Pistons leading scorer in the 1990 ECF in spite of being guarded by Jordan.

For his career Isiah's playoff numbers were identical to his regular season numbers. During their first title run his playoff numbers were also identical to his regular season numbers.

[DMAVS41]

Paul did make 9 All-NBA defense teams. I would say Steph was not as bad on defense as some people claim. I would say he is roughly average to slightly below average.

Offensively Steph is a unicorn. I get so tired of the Steph trolls on here.

I am fine with people saying Steph is better or Paul is better.


Yea, no doubt Paul is a better defender...although Curry was able to play huge minutes on very good defensive teams.

Like I said, different players with different styles no doubt, but I don't see the arguments in favor of Paul.

This is what I was kind of getting at earlier with Paul fans (not accusing you of this), but they take offense when Paul isn't put in the same class of some of the elite of the elite all-time great players that accomplished a ton of shit in their careers to go along with their level of play. I guess you could make a longevity argument right now for Paul, but Curry just had one of his better years and doesn't seem to be slowing down much.

[ImKobe]

Isiah has literally half the All-NBA selections compared to Paul. Not to mention that Paul has 9 All-NBA defense selections. Isiah 0.

The Pistons toughest competition was the Bulls and Dumars was the key to those series because he went head to head with Jordan while Isiah guarded Paxon who was just a spot up shooter and not a great defender. Dumars also won Finals MVP in their first title run which you are trying so hard to ignore.

For his career Isiah's playoff numbers were identical to his regular season numbers. During their first title run his playoff numbers were also identical to his regular season numbers.

That's not saying much when defense basically doesn't exist in Paul's era. Zeke led the league in assists & was close in the steals category too, he averages just .2 less stls per game for his career, he didn't get the credit because no one respected a player at his size (defensively) in that era but he definitely was a pest on the defensive side of the ball and one of the smartest players I've ever seen, especially when you hear him talk about defense. He had the IQ and court vision of CP3 and was a killer in the mid-range and better in transition. It's crazy that a 6-1 player led his team to 3 straight Finals in that era, all while beating Jordan 3 times in a row too. Zeke was a 21/5/14 player at his peak. He averages 19/4/9/2 for his career, Paul averages 18/5/9/2. Paul has the advanced stats edge and the benefit of playing in an era that's friendlier to smaller guards but I can't put him over Zeke without him winning a championship.

[tontoz]

Yea, no doubt Paul is a better defender...although Curry was able to play huge minutes on very good defensive teams.

Like I said, different players with different styles no doubt, but I don't see the arguments in favor of Paul.

This is what I was kind of getting at earlier with Paul fans (not accusing you of this), but they take offense when Paul isn't put in the same class of some of the elite of the elite all-time great players that accomplished a ton of shit in their careers to go along with their level of play. I guess you could make a longevity argument right now for Paul, but Curry just had one of his better years and doesn't seem to be slowing down much.

Curry definitely has some good years left. Shooters typically age well. Look at how long Reggie and Ray played. Vince too.

I do get frustrated watching Curry at times because he makes too many cringeworthy turnovers. The Wizards actually punk'd him this year by trapping him aggressively and he couldnt handle it. He held the ball too long and threw a lot of passes up for grabs. I am surprised more teams didn't do that.

[tontoz]

That's not saying much when defense basically doesn't exist in Paul's era. Zeke led the league in assists & was close in the steals category too, he averages just .2 less stls per game for his career, he didn't get the credit because no one respected a player at his size (defensively) in that era but he definitely was a pest on the defensive side of the ball and one of the smartest players I've ever seen, especially when you hear him talk about defense. He had the IQ and court vision of CP3 and was a killer in the mid-range and better in transition. It's crazy that a 6-1 player led his team to 3 straight Finals in that era, all while beating Jordan 3 times in a row too. Zeke was a 21/5/14 player at his peak. He averages 19/4/9/2 for his career, Paul averages 18/5/9/2. Paul has the advanced stats edge and the benefit of playing in an era that's friendlier to smaller guards but I can't put him over Zeke without him winning a championship.


:lol a killer mid-range. He wasn't a good shooter from anywhere outside 3 feet. For his career he shot 46.8% on 2s.

29% on 3s, 76% from the foul line. He just wasn't a good shooter.

I love how people give him all the credit for beating Jordan and forget the guy who actually guarded Jordan, the guard that actually did make the All-NBA team during their title years. The guy who won the FMVP during their first title.

[MadDog]

Isiah put up 21/7/3 on 48% shooting in the 89 finals. And 28/7/5 on 54% in the 90 finals. I'd say he earned his keep. Don't get why Chris Paul is "indisputably" better than a guy who clearly had better leadership\intangibles. Might not have had better longevity or greater accumulated stats, but Isiah didn't need to. He was a very good postseason performer and showed up when it counted.

[hold this L]

People considering Curry a PG is kind of questionable. He doesn't play like Nash, Kidd, CP3, Magic, etc at all.

He's really a shooting guard with a good pick and roll game. But the way he has played, he is not a pace setter or ball dominator or high assist guy. He has usually averaged 5-6 assists per game his career.

This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on ish, but the bold needs highlighting for especially low IQ. Go watch the previous season on the Warriors or read up on Warriors pace when he is on the bench and see what happens.

You don't need to pound the ball for 15 seconds before someone opens up to be a point guard. He doesn't play like those guys thankfully and that's a good thing, because it's far more effective (outside of magic). This idea that you need a lot of assists is old school. He creates off the ball in ways others could ever dream off. Everything is sped up when he is on the court for teams defending the Warriors, when he has the ball and when he doesn't. Noone has the ability to shift the court with and without the ball like he does.

[Axe]

Curry definitely has some good years left. Shooters typically age well. Look at how long Reggie and Ray played. Vince too.

I do get frustrated watching Curry at times because he makes too many cringeworthy turnovers. The Wizards actually punk'd him this year by trapping him aggressively and he couldnt handle it. He held the ball too long and threw a lot of passes up for grabs. I am surprised more teams didn't do that.
He became more clumsy when playoff time comes but it didn't matter since he used to have all-star teammates who can bail him out.

[tontoz]

He became more clumsy when playoff time comes but it didn't matter since he used to have all-star teammates who can bail him out.


Typical low IQ post.

In the last game of the season Curry dropped 46 on Memphis to clinch the 8 seed. Then he dropped 37 on the Lakers in the play in game, barely losing on Lebron's miracle 3. Then he dropped 39 on the Griz in the 2nd play in game.