2010 Wade had a 9.2 BPM (Kobe 4.1); Pau was 1x all-star pre-Kobe (Bosh 6x pre-Lebron)

[3ba11]

So Lebron teamed up with Kobe-Pau II but went 2/4 including the goat choke and the record loss - that's the worst anyone can do.

Btw, Wade had a 28 PER to Kobe's 21.. Wade was #2 in the league for PER, BPM, VORP, and WS/48, so he was the #2 producer in the league (the best help possible).

[3ba11]

.
PLAYOFFS

11-14' WADE' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game)....... 20/5/4 on 48%... 21.6 PER... 0.147 WS/48... 4.6 BPM
91-93' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game)...... 20/8/6 on 48%... 19.5 PER... 0.146 WS/48... 5.1 BPM

11-14' LEBRON (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game).... 27/8/6 on 50%... 28.2 PER... 0.253 WS/48..... 9.6 BPM... 2/4
91-93' JORDAN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game).... 34/7/7 on 50%... 29.5 PER... 0.267 WS/48... 11.8 BPM... 3-peat

[8Ball]

Talking about PER, LEBRON has higher peak playoff PER and more 30 + PER playoff runs than Jordan.


Using PER, LEBRON > jordan


Anything else?

[And1AllDay]

Jordan's All-Defensive teammates:

1984-85 -
1985-86 -
1986-87 -
1987-88 -
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - Scottie Pippen
1991-92 - Scottie Pippen
1992-93 - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
1994-95 - Scottie Pippen
1995-96 - Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman
1996-97 - Scottie Pippen
1997-98 - Scottie Pippen

LeBron's All-Defensive teammates:

2005-06 -
2006-07 -
2007-08 -
2008-09 -
2009-10 -
2010-11 -
2011-12 -
2012-13 -
2013-14 -
2014-15 -
2015-16 -
2016-17 -
2017-18 -

LeBron went to 9 finals and won 3 rings with no All-Defensive help at all. And now in 2020 he finally had one with AD and we saw how that went. :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

Talking about PER, LEBRON has higher peak playoff PER and more 30 + PER playoff runs than Jordan.


Using PER, LEBRON > jordan


Anything else?

https://i.postimg.cc/Fs3Py0nq/tenor.gifhttps://i.postimg.cc/Fs3Py0nq/tenor.gif

[AirBonner]

Talking about PER, LEBRON has higher peak playoff PER and more 30 + PER playoff runs than Jordan.


Using PER, LEBRON > jordan


Anything else?

Op should know better than to bring up per. Ufff /thread

[3ba11]

.
PLAYOFFS

11-14' WADE' (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game)....... 20/5/4 on 48%... 21.6 PER... 0.147 WS/48... 4.6 BPM
91-93' PIPPEN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game)...... 20/8/6 on 48%... 19.5 PER... 0.146 WS/48... 5.1 BPM

11-14' LEBRON (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game).... 27/8/6 on 50%... 28.2 PER... 0.253 WS/48..... 9.6 BPM... 2/4
91-93' JORDAN (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1991-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game).... 34/7/7 on 50%... 29.5 PER... 0.267 WS/48... 11.8 BPM... 3-peat




Talking about PER, LEBRON has higher peak playoff PER and more 30 + PER playoff runs than Jordan.


Using PER, LEBRON > jordan


Anything else?


Jordan three-peated from 91-93' with a sidekick that produced less than 11-14' Wade.

Then he three-peated again when when his sidekick was producing like prime Jeff Green (17.6 on 41% in the 96-98' Playoffs).

And Lebron played with more all-defenders (Battier, Varejao, Hughes, Wade) than Jordan (Grant, Pippen, Rodman), so Lebron played with more good defenders and more good rebounders or shot-blockers (Birdman, Chandler, Mosgov, Zydrunas, etc)

[kawhileonard2]

Jordan has the highest PER in the season and playoffs all time.

[ShawkFactory]

So Wade was better than Kobe? Most don’t agree

[MadDog]

So Wade was better than Kobe? Most don’t agree

Not to speak for OP, but most agree they were neck and neck in 2009 and 2010. With the exception of 2013, I believe Wade was clearly better from 2011-2016.

[ShawkFactory]

Not to speak for OP, but most agree they were neck and neck in 2009 and 2010. With the exception of 2013, I believe Wade was clearly better from 2011-2016.

The BPM numbers OP posted say otherwise

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

[MadDog]

The BPM numbers OP posted say otherwise

That's fine. :confusedshrug: Like I said, quite a few thought it was close. Many prefer Wade, and he's got impact numbers to back his case.

[And1AllDay]

That's fine. :confusedshrug: Like I said, quite a few thought it was close. Many prefer Wade, and he's got impact numbers to back his case.

alt caught :oldlol:


knew 3ball was mad dog :oldlol:

[MadDog]

alt caught :oldlol:


knew 3ball was mad dog :oldlol:

Sherlock with another swing and a miss. :confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

'94 and '95 combined

Pippen: 22.9 PER, 55.2%TS, .191 WS/48, 7.6 BPM
Stockton: 22.9 PER, 62.9%TS, .223 WS/48, 8.5 BPM

Stockton had the better PER, TS%, WS/48 & BPM than Pippen for the decade, and both made 7 All-NBA teams in the 90s (Stockton has 4 more overall).

Pippen was slightly below Stockton as a player, good job.

[Airupthere]

Jordan's All-Defensive teammates:

1984-85 -
1985-86 -
1986-87 -
1987-88 -
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - Scottie Pippen
1991-92 - Scottie Pippen
1992-93 - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
1994-95 - Scottie Pippen
1995-96 - Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman
1996-97 - Scottie Pippen
1997-98 - Scottie Pippen

LeBron's All-Defensive teammates:

2005-06 -
2006-07 -
2007-08 -
2008-09 -
2009-10 -
2010-11 -
2011-12 -
2012-13 -
2013-14 -
2014-15 -
2015-16 -
2016-17 -
2017-18 -

LeBron went to 9 finals and won 3 rings with no All-Defensive help at all. And now in 2020 he finally had one with AD and we saw how that went. :oldlol:

Damn you can really see all the work that Jordan put on passing his work ethic and knowhow on to pippen and horace all of those years.

With bronball, nope I don't see any teammates improving. On the contrary and unfortunately.

[TheCorporation]

alt caught :oldlol:


knew 3ball was mad dog :oldlol:

I knew it. What a looney fraud

Jordan's All-Defensive teammates:

1984-85 -
1985-86 -
1986-87 -
1987-88 -
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - Scottie Pippen
1991-92 - Scottie Pippen
1992-93 - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
1994-95 - Scottie Pippen
1995-96 - Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman
1996-97 - Scottie Pippen
1997-98 - Scottie Pippen

LeBron's All-Defensive teammates:

2005-06 -
2006-07 -
2007-08 -
2008-09 -
2009-10 -
2010-11 -
2011-12 -
2012-13 -
2013-14 -
2014-15 -
2015-16 -
2016-17 -
2017-18 -

LeBron went to 9 finals and won 3 rings with no All-Defensive help at all. And now in 2020 he finally had one with AD and we saw how that went. :oldlol:

Anyone?

[ShawkFactory]

That's fine. :confusedshrug: Like I said, quite a few thought it was close. Many prefer Wade, and he's got impact numbers to back his case.

Young Wade was the most fun basketball player to watch on the planet :cheers:

Im not sure why the impact numbers are posted though because Kobe would become overrated with them, which I don’t agree with. And they pretty much tell us lebron is second to only Jordan and that there is literally no argument to be had otherwise.

Confusing move by OP

[Manny98]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

:bowdown:

[8Ball]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

Jesus Bulls were stacked beyond belief.

[FKAri]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

Holy shit and he still needed Stern to change the rules to win ONE ring? Fucc that bald fraud.

[3ba11]

'94 and '95 combined

Pippen: 22.9 PER, 55.2%TS, .191 WS/48, 7.6 BPM
Stockton: 22.9 PER, 62.9%TS, .223 WS/48, 8.5 BPM

Stockton had the better PER, TS%, WS/48 & BPM than Pippen for the decade, and both made 7 All-NBA teams in the 90s (Stockton has 4 more overall).

Pippen was slightly below Stockton as a player, good job.


Stockton is 8th all-time in BPM and has far more all-nba and all-defense as Pippen.

But BPM is a steals-counter and based on team defensive performance - so it's garbage - the stats that actually measure Pippen's production have him 100-150th (PER, WS/48, OBPM, ORTG, TS, peak VORP)

Stockton/Malone were basically b2b champs, so Stockton/MJ would win every year - imagine MJ with a premier playmaker like Stockton or Harden setting him up, rather than a bum like Pippen that only averages 5 apg

[MadDog]

Young Wade was the most fun basketball player to watch on the planet :cheers:

Im not sure why the impact numbers are posted though because Kobe would become overrated with them, which I don’t agree with. And they pretty much tell us lebron is second to only Jordan and that there is literally no argument to be had otherwise.

Confusing move by OP

I get where you're coming from. Me? Don't agree with all impact numbers, and hardly use them. They're too dependent on what you gotta do for your team, which doesn't necessarily make you better.

[AirBonner]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

Op abandoned ship after this post

[kawhileonard2]

I knew it. What a looney fraud


Anyone?

Ben Wallace, Shaq, Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard, Rajon Rondo to name a few guys that Lebron had who were all defensive help even more than Lebron. Lebron had two guys who won 3+ DPOY in Ben Wallace and Dwight Howard.

[3ba11]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing


2010 Wade didn't just beat Kobe in BPM - he beat Kobe in everything by wide margins - PER, VORP, WS/48 and BPM - Wade's PER was 28 and Kobe's 21

So Lebron teamed up with Kobe-Pau II but went 2/4 including the goat choke and record loss.

[Ne 1]

Context. Gasol in Memphis had to overcome votes for Duncan, Garnett and Dirk to get into all star games. Bosh in Toronto only had to overcome Jermaine O’Neal. it’s a big difference.

[Hey Yo]

Context. Gasol in Memphis had to overcome votes for Duncan, Garnett and Dirk to get into all star games. Bosh in Toronto only had to overcome Jermaine O’Neal. it’s a big difference.

They talk about how the East was shit, yet praise Bosh for his AS appearances.

[TheCorporation]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

OP?

[Sarcastic]

Talking about PER, LEBRON has higher peak playoff PER and more 30 + PER playoff runs than Jordan.


Using PER, LEBRON > jordan


Anything else?

And yet he still lost.

At least he got to stat pad against Oladipo, Trash Bros, and rookie Tatum for a few rounds.

[And1AllDay]

And yet he still lost.

At least he got to stat pad against Oladipo, Trash Bros, and rookie Tatum for a few rounds.

shoulda got that 1-9 cummings sweep like your boi amirite? :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

Pippen had a higher BPM in '94 & '95 than Hakeem, Shaq, Barkley, Malone & Ewing

op?

[3ba11]

op?


Team defensive performance is a primary driver for BPM, so it isn't a pure measure of an individual's production.. Otoh, stats that actually measure Pippen's production show pedestrian peaks or averages in PPG, APG, PER, WS/48, VORP, OBPM, FG%, TS, ORTG, usage.

But if you want to talk BPM, Wade had higher BPM in 2012 than Pippen ever did.

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs



pre-Lebron Bosh... 6x all-star
pre-Kobe Pau'....... 1x all-star

2010 Wade... 28 PER... 9 BPM
2010 Kobe.... 21 PER... 4 BPM


^^^ Lebron teamed up with the rich man's version of Kobe-Pau, but went 2/4.

Lebron's super-teams from 2011 to 2016 were so unfair, that KD needed to team up with Curry/Klay to supercede them - yet the media says Lebron's colluded rings are legit, but KD's aren't.. This completely ignores that Lebron stacked the deck in the first place...

Ultimately, Lebron's Cavs were the pre-season favorite in 2015 and 2016 because Kyrie/Love were perennial all-stars, while Klay/Dray were 1st-timers.. So Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 but fell to underdog or loser every year in the Finals, except the Ray Allen miracle...

[red1]

.
Thread Cliffs



pre-Lebron Bosh... 6x all-star
pre-Kobe Pau'....... 1x all-star

2010 Wade... 28 PER... 9 BPM
2010 Kobe.... 21 PER... 4 BPM


^^^ Lebron teamed up with the rich man's version of Kobe-Pau, but went 2/4.

Lebron's super-teams from 2011 to 2016 were so unfair, that KD needed to team up with Curry/Klay to supercede them - yet the media says Lebron's colluded rings are legit, but KD's aren't.. This completely ignores that Lebron stacked the deck in the first place...

Ultimately, Lebron's Cavs were the pre-season favorite in 2015 and 2016 because Kyrie/Love were perennial all-stars, while Klay/Dray were 1st-timers.. So Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016 but fell to underdog or loser every year in the Finals, except the Ray Allen miracle...

jordan = zero rings without pippen.

[SouBeachTalents]

jordan = zero rings without pippen.
Also zero winning records without Pippen

[3ba11]

Also zero winning records without Pippen


Prime Jordan was 32-12 without Pippen from 91-98', or a 60-win pace.. He actually won the 93' title and 2nd three-peat IN SPITE of pippen - pippen was a massive liability in those playoff runs with 3 of the 7 worst true shooting runs of any winning sidekick (93', 96', 98').. Jordan didn't notice because he relished the carry-jobs.. If he hadn't succeeded in carrying the Bulls, then perhaps he would've started pointing fingers.

Ultimately, Jordan was 193 - 187 (0.508 win%) without Pippen in his career - this is primarily from his first 3 seasons (when lebron was lottery and Shaq was 0-3 in playoffs), and then his 2 Wizards seasons at 39 and 40 years old

http://nobodytouchesjordan.blogspot.com/2015/05/section-19-truth-about-michael-jordan.html

[3ba11]

.
Thread Cliffs


Lebron stacked the deck with super-teams for 6 years (11-16') and KD stacked the deck for 4 years (17', 18', 19', 21')

Lebron teamed up with the rich man's version of Kobe-Pau, while Durant joined a 1 seed (but not the league favorite - the Cavs were the league favorite until KD joined the Warriors)