Unathletic mid-range could win title, so what would the goat athlete & mid-range do?

[3ba11]

CP3 could win the title with mid-range (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phZ59pSXN6I&t=38s), which proves that MJ's goat mid-range would win every year and average 60 ppg

MJ averaged 31/7/11 in the 91' Finals without starting at point guard - so Jordan is a rich man's CP3

[ShawkFactory]

Yes, Michael Jordan probably could have won the title this year with this suns team too.

[1987_Lakers]

Aside from the goat pg/goat center combo of magic/kareem, high apg players don't win championships

Period

Since the 3-point line began 30 years ago, only Magic won a ring averaging 10 apg, and only 4 other guys won rings averaging over 8 apg

People have this idea that someone getting 10 apg is such a great thing, but it usually means the ball-handler held the ball most of the possession and then found someone open to finish the play - their ball-dominance replaced ball movement and it's hard to win that way

Otoh, the way nearly all championships are won is by having a timely scorer that gets 4-7 apg (11' Dirk, 06' Wade, Kobe, MJ, KD, Kawhi, Duncan, etc) - being able to find teammates is important, but in the flow of the game and with ball movement (unpredictable), not 1 guy pounding the rock and then finding someone (predictable)

lol

[3ba11]

lol


What are you laughing at - that post was all facts - high APG players don't win rings aside from a few exceptions - rings are mostly won by 5-7 apg players, and CP3 winning 1 chip after 2 decades proves my point

I posted MJ's assists stats in the OP to show that he can play and win with any style, even the suboptimal high-assist style

[1987_Lakers]

CP3 winning proves that Bron ball wins titles.

[3ba11]

CP3 winning proves that Bron ball wins titles.


1 chip in 20 years proves it doesn't win.. just like 4/10 with super-teams proves it too

Lebron hand-picked the preseason favorite from 2011-2016, but fell to underdog or loser every year except the Ray Allen miracle - so Lebron-ball is complete trash and he's the most overrated athlete in history - a literal fraud that manufactured his resume

Ultimately, Kareem won 5 titles in the 80's - high-assist players don't win anywhere near as much as 5-7 apg players...

[8Ball]

high apg players don't win championships

Period



LeBron in 2020 = 25 points. 10 assists. 8 rebounds.

https://hips.hearstapps.com/esquireuk.cdnds.net/16/46/1479206864-donald-trump-wrong.gif

[8Ball]

CP3 could win the title with mid-range (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phZ59pSXN6I&t=38s), which proves that MJ's goat mid-range would win every year and average 60 ppg

MJ averaged 31/7/11 in the 91' Finals without starting at point guard - so Jordan is a rich man's CP3


high apg players don't win championships

Period

Jordan a rich man CP3 but high assist players don't win championships?

:roll:

[1987_Lakers]

Bron ball beat a 73 win team with GOAT ball movement in 2016

The 2012 @ 2016 ISO OKC team beat ball-movement Spurs team in 2012 & 2016.

You lose.

[3ba11]

LeBron in 2020 = 25 points. 10 assists. 8 rebounds.

https://hips.hearstapps.com/esquireuk.cdnds.net/16/46/1479206864-donald-trump-wrong.gif


High apg players don't win - it's a fact - 1 chip in 20 years proves the point

[3ba11]

Bron ball beat a 73 win team with GOAT ball movement in 2016

The 2012 @ 2016 ISO OKC team beat ball-movement Spurs team in 2012 & 2016.

You lose.



CP3 getting 1 chip in 20 years proves my point, or Lebron with the worst Finals record in 3-pointer history - the numbers are on my side - high apg is a suboptimal way to play where 1 guy hogs all the assists

Kareem won 5 chips in the 80's... high apg simply doesn't win when the top guy is getting alot of assists

[1987_Lakers]

CP3 getting 1 chip in 20 years proves my point, or Lebron with the worst Finals record in 3-pointer history - the numbers are on my side - high apg is a suboptimal way to play where 1 guy hogs all the assists

MJ being 1-9 proves my point that he is nothing without Pippen.

[3ba11]

MJ being 1-9 proves my point that he is nothing without Pippen.


20 years proves my point

10 games doesn't prove yours

[1987_Lakers]

20 years proves my point

10 games doesn't prove yours

Wrong, Magic dominated the 80's and that was with Kareem aging as the decade went on. So it's proven having a PG with high APG can form dynasties like showtime.

MJ on the other hand NEVER won without Pippen.

1-9.

[3ba11]

Wrong, Magic dominated the 80's and that was with Kareem aging as the decade went on. So it's proven having a PG with high APG can form dynasties like showtime.

MJ on the other hand NEVER won without Pippen.

1-9.


Kareem is ranked higher than Magic all-time - so those are Kareem's rings, and that's the only reason Magic's suboptimal style won - and his 5-4 Finals record despite having Kareem shows how the suboptimal style didn't get the most out of those stacked teams

Otoh, when a high assist player is the best player on their team, they almost never win because it's a shit style where 1 guy hogs the assists - that's why Lebron has the worst Finals record in history despite having super-teams.. Almost no one one chips while averaging 8+ assists in the playoffs or Finals.

[3ba11]

Btw, notice how I don't mind the thread derail into a discussion about 1 guy hogging the assists, rather than discuss the thread title about how mid-range is still king

I can win both arguments because they aren't arguments - it's facts - 1 guy hogging the assists doesn't win except one-offs, while mid-range is obviously still king.. Even unathletic mid-range

[1987_Lakers]

Kareem is ranked higher than Magic all-time - so those are Kareem's rings, and that's the only reason Magic's suboptimal style won - and his 5-4 Finals record despite having Kareem shows how the suboptimal style didn't get the most out of those stacked teams

Otoh, when a high assist player is the best player on their team, they almost never win because it's a shit style where 1 guy hogs the assists - that's why Lebron has the worst Finals record in history despite having super-teams.. Almost no one one chips while averaging 8+ assists in the playoffs or Finals.

Kareem in '87: 17 ppg
Kareem in '88: 14 ppg

So the Lakers won back to back championships with Kareem as a role player and Magic as the clear cut best player.

[3ba11]

Kareem in '87: 17 ppg
Kareem in '88: 14 ppg

So the Lakers won back to back championships with Kareem as a role player and Magic as the clear cut best player.


Worthy was #1 option in the 1987 and 1988 Playoffs, while winning FMVP in 1988... So Worthy could be argued the best player - Magic should be 9-0 in the Finals with the most stacked teams in history - only a suboptimal brand made them barely .500 in the Finals, which is utterly pathetic given the talent.

Without Magic's 5 titles, your argument falls apart because almost no one else won rings while averaging 8+ assists in the playoffs or Finals... Almost no one wins that way unless they have a GOAT candidate (kareem)

[1987_Lakers]

Worthy was #1 option in the 1987 and 1988 Playoffs, while winning FMVP in 1988... So Worthy could be argued the best player - Magic should be 9-0 in the Finals with the most stacked teams in history - only a suboptimal brand made them barely .500 in the Finals, which is utterly pathetic given the talent.

:roll:

I'm done here, you just lost the argument to this stupid statement, thanks for playing.

1-9

[3ba11]

:roll:

I'm done here, you just lost the argument to this stupid statement, thanks for playing.

1-9


Kareem is the higher-ranked player and Worthy was the leading scorer and FMVP - so with stacked casts like that, a ball-dominator like Magic was barely .500 in the Finals - so the facts are on my side - almost no one wins as the best player while averaging 8+ apg in the playoffs or Finals.

Ultimately, who gets credit for the Lakers' 5 rings in the 80's?.. The highest ranked player (kareem)?... The leading scorer (Worthy)?.. Either way, they aren't Magic's rings exclusively

[1987_Lakers]

Kareem is the higher-ranked player and Worthy was the leading scorer and FMVP - so with stacked casts like that, a ball-dominator like Magic was barely .500 in the Finals - so the facts are on my side - almost no one wins as the best player while averaging 8+ apg in the playoffs or Finals.

Ultimately, who gets credit for the Lakers' 5 rings in the 80's?.. The highest ranked player (kareem)?... The leading scorer (Worthy)?.. Either way, they aren't Magic's rings exclusively

Pippen is ranked as probably the greatest defensive SF ever, constantly ranked in the top 30 player ever, way ahead of Worthy, #3 in MVP voting without MJ, without him MJ is 1-9. MJ doesn't win without Pippen.

[3ba11]

Pippen is ranked as probably the greatest defensive SF ever, constantly ranked in the top 30 player ever, way ahead of Worthy, #3 in MVP voting without MJ, without him MJ is 1-9. MJ doesn't win without Pippen.


Pippen was a good defender, but spotty-scoring defenders are called defensive role players, not 2nd option stars.. so Jordan won 6 chips with a team of defensive role players - the stats show this clearly, but 6 chips simply inflates the low-producing bums on that team

[1987_Lakers]

Pippen was a good defender, but spotty-scoring defenders are called defensive role players, not 2nd option stars.. so Jordan won 6 chips with a team of defensive role players - the stats show this clearly, but 6 chips simply inflates the low-producing bums on that team

Damn, so a role player finished #3 in MVP voting in '94? MJ's competition was trash.

[3ba11]

Damn, so a role player finished #3 in MVP voting in '94? MJ's competition was trash.


Blake Griffin finished #3 for MVP voting.. IT was #5

Pippen's production and performance was actually BELOW these guys, and he was a defensive role player for nearly 90% of his playoff career..

Specifically, Pippen was a defensive role player in the 88-90' Playoffs and the 96-03' Playoffs... And he averaged 19.0 on 40% in the 95' ECSF... Furthermore, his 45% true shooting in the 93' Finals and 2.0 BPM in those playoffs is the lowest ever for a winning 2nd option, while his PER, WS/48 and pace-adjusted scoring was lower than 14' Wade, and lower than 13' Wade across the board (PER, WS/48, BPM, VORP)..

Only in 91' and 92' did he perform like a solid 2nd scoring option - every other year he was a trainwreck - even in 92', he nearly derailed the repeat attempt by wetting the bed against the Knicks and X-man.. In 98' he nearly derailed the 3-peat by wetting the bed in the ECF, including losing Game 4 with missed FT's before Miller's historic shot.

[1987_Lakers]

Blake Griffin finished #3 for MVP voting.. IT was #5

Only difference is none of those guys had 1st place votes, Pippen had 7 first place votes.

So 7 voters voted Pippen to be the MVP in '94.

Wow, a "role" player got MVP votes. How bad was MJ's competition?

[8Ball]

1987 lakers has not lost 1 argument vs 3ball.

[3ba11]

Only difference is none of those guys had 1st place votes, Pippen had 7 first place votes.

So 7 voters voted Pippen to be the MVP in '94.

Wow, a "role" player got MVP votes. How bad was MJ's competition?


Pippen was never an MVP candidate because no one ever mentioned him as one... Ever.

But you're making my point about the winning spotlight - that's how Pippen gets accolades despite inferior stats to Blake, IT, and basically everyone... and the reputation as the goat choker.. the winning spotlight makes all that go away...

Similar to Kobe getting a few extra all-defense, Pippen got a few extra all-nba's due to winning spotlight and association with MJ.

And just because Jordan carried a defensive role player to 6 titles over Shaq and Malone doesn't mean the league was weak - it means he's GOAT

[1987_Lakers]

You're making my point about the winning spotlight - that's how Pippen gets accolades despite inferior stats to Blake, IT, and basically everyone... and the reputation as the goat choker.. the winning spotlight makes all that go away...

Similar to Kobe getting a few extra all-defense awards, Pippen got a few extra all-nba's due to winning spotlight and association with MJ.

And just because Jordan carried a defensive role player to 6 titles doesn't mean the league was weak - it means he's GOAT

Well, since a role player got MVP votes and won 55 games '94 without MJ, it's save to say MJ won titles against trash competition. Stockton didn't have a single 30 point playoff game throughout the 90's.

[FKAri]

3ball is arguing that Kareem AND Worthy > Magic from 87-88.

LOL

[RRR3]

3ball is arguing that Kareem AND Worthy > Magic from 87-88.

LOL
He also said MJ could average 60 PPG today.

[FKAri]

He also said MJ could average 60 PPG today.

Maybe if he was on an EPO and GH routine.

[3ba11]

3ball is arguing that Kareem AND Worthy > Magic from 87-88.

LOL


Kareem is the higher-ranked player, so those are his rings... Kareem sometimes won in spite of Magic's high assists because Kareem is a goat candidate and had a stacked cast outside of Magic.. Otherwise, Kareem was only 5-4 with Magic, which is pathetic, but that kind of underachievement is standard for ball-dominators that hog the team's assists

[Charlie Sheen]

Pippen was never an MVP candidate because no one ever mentioned him as one... Ever.

But you're making my point about the winning spotlight - that's how Pippen gets accolades despite inferior stats to Blake, IT, and basically everyone... and the reputation as the goat choker.. the winning spotlight makes all that go away...

Similar to Kobe getting a few extra all-defense, Pippen got a few extra all-nba's due to winning spotlight and association with MJ.

And just because Jordan carried a defensive role player to 6 titles over Shaq and Malone doesn't mean the league was weak - it means he's GOAT

I never truly appreciated Pippen until a group of fans started marginalizing Pau to raise Kobe's profile. Funny how perspective changes when it's happening to a player I liked.

[3ba11]

I never truly appreciated Pippen until a group of fans started marginalizing Pau to raise Kobe's profile. Funny how perspective changes when it's happening to a player I liked.


Tbh, you can't compare Pau and Pippen.. Pau was a real threat that commanded double teams and was far superior to Pippen.. Pau didn't just score "flow points" like Pippen.. Pau carried the Lakers in stretches and even down the stretch of big games - he was a "go-to" player

[FKAri]

3ball logic:
- Magic was a ball dominator and wasn't that good
- Kareem is ranked higher than Magic so 87,88 are Kareem's rings
- Therefore, Magic wasn't that good
- Also, Kareem isn't that good because he was always on stacked rosters



heheheheheheh

[1987_Lakers]

3ball logic:
- Magic was a ball dominator and wasn't that good
- Kareem is ranked higher than Magic so 87,88 are Kareem's rings
- Therefore, Magic wasn't that good
- Also, Kareem isn't that good because he was always on stacked rosters



heheheheheheh

Dude is a walking contradiction.

[000]

Pippen had 7 first place votes.
Almost half as many as 2006 chauncey billups:milton

[1987_Lakers]

Almost half as many as 2006 chauncey billups:milton

Billups was a baller.

[red1]

OP remember when you used to argue that KG was better at basketball than a player who couldnt post up and shoot like lebron?


how did that turn out for you? :oldlol:


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10778111/May_04_2018_00_07_20.gif
https://wp.usatodaysports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2013/06/lebron31.gif

[red1]

Dude is a walking contradiction.

I've been slam-dunking on him for years


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LimpBreakableEarwig-size_restricted.gif




he literally lost every. single. argument. - Quatro™ was invented to get a quick laugh every time Im bored killing time and see 3ball posting.



he cant STAND it. :oldlol:



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkGB2HFWAAEwOhk.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball logic:
- Magic was a ball dominator and wasn't that good
- Kareem is ranked higher than Magic so 87,88 are Kareem's rings
- Therefore, Magic wasn't that good
- Also, Kareem isn't that good because he was always on stacked rosters



heheheheheheh
Dude is a fcking retard. And he was arguing just last year that Kareem was a "bird fed loser" who needed Magic, but when LeBron won last year did a complete 180 on the subject. Fakkit :lol

[j3lademaster]

I've been slam-dunking on him for years


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LimpBreakableEarwig-size_restricted.gif




he literally lost every. single. argument. - Quatro™ was invented to get a quick laugh every time Im bored killing time and see 3ball posting.



he cant STAND it. :oldlol:



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkGB2HFWAAEwOhk.jpg
https://media.giphy.com/media/1Q9xBAPHfUcFH0Jn9d/giphy.gif

[3ba11]

Dude is a fcking retard. And he was arguing just last year that Kareem was a "bird fed loser" who needed Magic, but when LeBron won last year did a complete 180 on the subject. Fakkit :lol


That was a troll thread to minimize AD and I pointed that out in that thread - my main point for years is that MJ's off-ball skillset makes him a goat possession-closer, just like AD and Kareem..

The term "bird-fed" is something I got from you guys and used it as a troll - but the ability to close possessions is what separates Jordan from Lebron.. Possession-closing is also the skill that allows Jordan's high scoring to be partially-assisted (thereby elevating teammates), while Lebron's ball-dominance reduces guys to spot-up shooter, so he can't win with high scoring.

[RRR3]

That was a troll thread to minimize AD and I pointed that out in that thread - my main point for years is that MJ's off-ball skillset makes him a goat possession-closer, just like AD and Kareem..

The term "bird-fed" is something I got from you guys and used it as a troll - but the ability to close possessions is what separates Jordan from Lebron.. Possession-closing is also the skill that allows Jordan's high scoring to be partially-assisted (thereby elevating teammates), while Lebron's ball-dominance reduces guys to spot-up shooter, so he can't win with high scoring.
He can’t win with high scoring even though he’s won multiple rings leading the playoffs in scoring lmao.

[3ba11]

He can’t win with high scoring even though he’s won multiple rings leading the playoffs in scoring lmao.


Lebron never won outside the 1st Round with 35 ppg and lost series as historic favorites to a 1-star team despite scoring 38 ppg

Ultimately, high scoring from Lebron is very ball-dominant, which reduces teammates to spot-up roles, while Jordan won with high scoring because his scoring is partially-assisted, thereby elevating teammate role and brand

[8Ball]

That was a troll thread to minimize AD and I pointed that out in that thread - my main point for years is that MJ's off-ball skillset makes him a goat possession-closer, just like AD and Kareem..

The term "bird-fed" is something I got from you guys and used it as a troll - but the ability to close possessions is what separates Jordan from Lebron.. Possession-closing is also the skill that allows Jordan's high scoring to be partially-assisted (thereby elevating teammates), while Lebron's ball-dominance reduces guys to spot-up shooter, so he can't win with high scoring.


Every thread of yours is a troll thread :roll:

[And1AllDay]

only bran ball wins at highest degree. you need high ppg and apg and rpg

magic didnt score enough
mike didnt pass enough
bran ball > all others style

bran style is 26p, 8r, 6a on 49%

all 4 chips he won like this, no one else could do it but him

[MadDog]

Pump the brakes bruh. Could is the operative word cuz CP3 hasn't won jack. Curry in his place would've had similar success. I know. I get it. You think his style has been "figured out". But Chef's production and impact was TIERS better. That and he's the ONLY PLAYER taking the threes he does, and hitting them at an efficient clip.

[And1AllDay]

Pump the brakes bruh. Could is the operative word cuz CP3 hasn't won jack. Curry in his place would've had similar success. I know. I get it. You think his style has been "figured out". But Chef's production and impact was TIERS better. That and he's the ONLY PLAYER taking the threes he does, and hitting them at an efficient clip.

3baLLLLLLLLLLLLL

no moar plz

[MadDog]

3baLLLLLLLLLLLLL

no moar plz

Not 3ball dude. Guy thinks Curry is overrated and three dependent. I don't. Wrap that around your brain. You'll be better off.

[And1AllDay]

Not 3ball dude. Guy thinks Curry is overrated and three dependent. I don't. Wrap that around your brain. You'll be better off.

its too obvious your 3baLLLLLLLLL or coach so which is it :confusedshrug:

[Bankaii]

Kareem is the higher-ranked player, so those are his rings... Kareem sometimes won in spite of Magic's high assists because Kareem is a goat candidate and had a stacked cast outside of Magic.. Otherwise, Kareem was only 5-4 with Magic, which is pathetic, but that kind of underachievement is standard for ball-dominators that hog the team's assists
The funny thing is that this exact same dude was saying that Kareem deserves to be in the bottom half on the top 10 because he’s bird fed.
Now Kareem is a GOAT candidate and the main reason for all his rings.
Dude can’t even keep his agendas straight.

[Orange_Cassidy]

CP3 could win the title with mid-range (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phZ59pSXN6I&t=38s), which proves that MJ's goat mid-range would win every year and average 60 ppg

MJ averaged 31/7/11 in the 91' Finals without starting at point guard - so Jordan is a rich man's CP3

didn't someone make a thread last week about mid range players winning finals mvp and curry not changing anything

[Ice Trae]

whose mid-range is better CP3 or Irving?

[Full Court]

only bran ball wins at highest degree. you need high ppg and apg and rpg

magic didnt score enough
mike didnt pass enough
bran ball > all others style

bran style is 26p, 8r, 6a on 49%

all 4 chips he won like this, no one else could do it but him

Do you actually believe the crap you spout out? So then why did Lebron's superior brand of basketball only get him 4 chips, while others who play inferior basketball managed to win more chips?

Magic didn't score enough....yet he won more chips than Lebron.
Mike didn't pass enough...yet he won more chips than Lebron.

I hope for your sake that you're trolling and not actually this dumb.

[And1AllDay]

did op realy ask what would kawhi do in this era?

uhhh we saw it :oldlol:

[RogueBorg]

CP3 could win the title with mid-range (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phZ59pSXN6I&t=38s), which proves that MJ's goat mid-range would win every year and average 60 ppg

MJ averaged 31/7/11 in the 91' Finals without starting at point guard - so Jordan is a rich man's CP3

60 ppg? Next week he'll be up to 100

[Vino24]

Cp3 is on par with MJ from midrange. And as a result he gets one chip in 16 years. Meanwhile Bronball equals 4 chips

[LikeABosh]

Chirs Paul is getting so overrated this playoff run. Playing against the corpse of his opponents. Half the all NBA players in the league have been injured. Not to mention Booker is the teams leading scorer by a wide margin, Ayton is a beast and they are loaded with great role players. Fraud midget

[3ba11]

:facepalm:

[3ba11]

Chirs Paul is getting so overrated this playoff run. Playing against the corpse of his opponents. Half the all NBA players in the league have been injured. Not to mention Booker is the teams leading scorer by a wide margin, Ayton is a beast and they are loaded with great role players. Fraud midget


He's proving that mid-range is still king and Jordan's stats in these Finals would be 51/9/11 on 49%... Probably goat usage too with goat ortg for any high-scoring perimeter player..

[3ba11]

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZkiVauQdlJy92/giphy.gif

[SATAN]

Comparing MJ and Chris Paul seems more realistic than comparing MJ to LeBron tbh. Good to see 3ball finally got over that mental hurdle.

[3ba11]

Comparing MJ and Chris Paul seems more realistic than comparing MJ to LeBron tbh. Good to see 3ball finally got over that mental hurdle.


Well Lebron is at home because he proved (as I said all along) that he can't win with a low seed.. I pointed out for years that he always had high seeds in the playoffs, and infact had 3 years to develop his team into a high seed before entering the playoffs in 06' - and sure enough, the first time Lebron gets a low seed, he gets demolished in the 1st Round, despite getting spotted 2 games by AD..

And CP3/Booker reminds me of my dream backcourt - Stockton/MJ... Stockton/MJ would win every year because Stockton/Malone were basically B2B champs and demolished Shaq/Duncan.

[3ba11]

Seems like CP3 would face a lot more pressure in the mid-range area than today's wide open middle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NdwGRY3xwo&t=36s

[ShawkFactory]

Seems like CP3 would face a lot more pressure in the mid-range area than today's wide open middle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NdwGRY3xwo&t=36s

Sure he would.

But he has an incredible feel for the game and is a great shooter so he’s be just fine. If mark price could do it Chris Paul can.

[3ba11]

Sure he would.

But he has an incredible feel for the game and is a great shooter so he’s be just fine. If mark price could do it Chris Paul can.


But Price couldn't get to the Finals with MJ in the conference and was denied repeatedly, just like Ewing. MJ was the gate-keeper and I don't see CP3 getting through.. Maybe he could wait 2 decades and fluke a Finals appearance in an injury year like this year though. I could see that.

[ShawkFactory]

But Price couldn't get to the Finals with MJ in the conference. He was the gate-keeper and I don't see CP3 getting through

I’m confused as to what your point is.

Do you think people are saying Chris Paul > MJ?

But since you bring it up..if you give those Cavs teams Mark Price on steroids? Not so sure the Bulls eek by them both of those years.

88 and 89 that is

[3ba11]

I’m confused as to what your point is.

Do you think people are saying Chris Paul > MJ?

But since you bring it up..if you give those Cavs teams Mark Price on steroids? Not so sure the Bulls eek by them both of those years.


No, I'm just pointing out that CP3 is using mid-range to win, just like Kawhi, Booker, and anyone that wants to win.. So the goat mid-range shooter (MJ) would average 45+ and ragdoll today's game worse than he did in the 90's (when the paints weren't open like today)

[ShawkFactory]

No, I'm just pointing out that CP3 is using mid-range to win, just like Kawhi, Booker, and anyone that wants to win.. So the goat mid-range shooter (MJ) would average 45+ and ragdoll today's game worse than he did in the 90's (when the paints weren't open like today)

Oh.

We’ll have fun

[Phoenix]

Patented Jeff thread, dripping with classic nuggets like the 87 and 88 chips should be credited more to Kareem( 40 at this point) or Worthy. Whatever keep the clicks going and the server bill paid, I guess.

[FKAri]

Thread Cliffs:

- Magic was a ball dominator and wasn't that good
- Kareem is ranked higher than Magic so 87,88 are Kareem's rings
- Therefore, Magic wasn't that good
- Also, Kareem isn't that good because he was always on stacked rosters

[3ba11]

Patented Jeff thread, dripping with classic nuggets like the 87 and 88 chips should be credited more to Kareem( 40 at this point) or Worthy. Whatever keep the clicks going and the server bill paid, I guess.


A hobbled worthy still averaged 20 on 48% in the 1991 Finals - if he was healthy and dominant like he was many times in the 87-90' Playoffs as the Lakers #1 option, then he would be FMVP again.. So it's hard to credit Magic with all those rings when he only won FMVP for 3 of them and 1 of those should've gone to Kareem (80')

Ultimately, 5-4 with the alleged GOAT Kareem is horrible, just like 4-6 with super-teams is trash - and we haven't even talked about the high assist guys that DON'T have the luxury of a super-team like Nash, CP3, etc... the high assist brand is just trash and needs super-teams to win (still mostly loses).. APG is a useless stat unless it's too high or too low.. Anything from 5-7 apg is optimal and fine.

[Phoenix]

A hobbled worthy still averaged 20 on 48% in the 1991 Finals - if he was healthy and dominant like he was many times in the 87-90' Playoffs as the Lakers #1 option, then he would be FMVP again.. So it's hard to credit Magic with all those rings when he only won FMVP for 3 of them and 1 of those should've gone to Kareem (80')

Ultimately, 5-4 with the alleged GOAT Kareem is horrible, just like 4-6 with super-teams is trash - and we haven't even talked about the high assist guys that DON'T have the luxury of a super-team like Nash, CP3, etc... the high assist brand is just trash and needs super-teams to win (still mostly loses).. APG is a useless stat unless it's too high or too low.. Anything from 5-7 apg is optimal and fine.

Sure thing Jeff.

[SouBeachTalents]

Sure thing Jeff.
'89 Pippen

[Phoenix]

'89 Pippen

:lol

[3ba11]

'89 Pippen


^^^ A role player that opponents exploited as the weak link and the SPOT

This occurred all the way until 1991... And the Knicks almost succeeded with the bad boy tactics in 92', but MJ intervened and faced off with Pippen's tormentor (X-man) to prevent Pippen from having another migraine in Game 7.

Jordan had learned to be the enforcer for Pippen to help Pippen through the high-pressure times - he stated this in the documentary.. This was part of Jordan's "organic winning learning curve".. it's a steep curve and only the most skilled can climb the mountain because it requires adjusting to teammates and learning superior strategy.. There's no star scorer at 3rd option on organic teams (no talent-based winning), so they must play better BASKETBALL to win.. Being the enforcer for Pippen was a small part of that, along with becoming more of a jumpshooter in general.

[SATAN]

So...3ball is the website owner?

[Phoenix]

^^^ A role player that opponents exploited as the weak link and the SPOT

This occurred all the way until 1991... And the Knicks almost succeeded with it in 92', but MJ intervened and faced off with Pippen's tormentor (X-man) to prevent Pippen from having another migraine in Game 7.

Jordan had learned to be the enforcer for Pippen to help Pippen through the high-pressure times - he stated this too in the documentary.. This was part of Jordan's "organic winning learning curve".. it's a steep curve and only the most skilled can climb the mountain because it requires adjusting to teammates and learning superior strategy.. There's no star scorer at 3rd option on organic teams (no talent-based winning), so they must play better BASKETBALL to win.. Being the enforcer for Pippen was a small part of that, along with becoming more of a jumpshooter in general.

Vorp.

[Phoenix]

So...3ball is the website owner?

Yep. The mods like to chastise him and give him a two day ban once in a while as part of the show.

[3ba11]

Vorp.


Pippen's peak Value Above Replacement is 96th all-time

His BPM, WS/48 and PER is lower than Kyrie's, AD's and Wade's

[Phoenix]

Pippen's peak Value Above Replacement is 96th all-time

His BPM, WS/48 and PER is lower than Kyrie's, AD's and Wade's

Do RAPTOR.

[Phoenix]

3nut rummaging through his pre-canned auto-replies to see if he has anything for RAPTOR.:oldlol:

[3ba11]

Do RAPTOR.


Pippen < PG13 (and it doesn't include his 21' Playoff run)


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-09-2021/8A1Us8.gif

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-michael-jordan-was-the-best/

[Phoenix]

Dat a-boy bucko. Now do:

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

[3ba11]

Dat a-boy bucko. Now do:

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM


Pippen ranks between 100-200 in all production rate stats that measure his actual production and don't include team performance as a primary driver (bpm)... So this would be everything you listed above except the cumulative stats like WS or VORP...

[SATAN]

Yep. The mods like to chastise him and give him a two day ban once in a while as part of the show.

Good to know. Thanks.

3ba11
I rule the local playground

This message is hidden because 3ba11 is on your ignore list.
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Remove user from ignore list

[SouBeachTalents]

Pippen ranks between 100-200 in all stats that measure his actual production and don't include team performance as a primary driver (bpm).
Bullshit, no way that's correct. Post his ranking for each one or GTFO

[Phoenix]

Pippen ranks between 100-200 in all stats that measure his actual production and don't include team performance as a primary driver (bpm).

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

Thanks.

[Phoenix]

Good to know. Thanks.

3ba11
I rule the local playground

This message is hidden because 3ba11 is on your ignore list.
View Post
Remove user from ignore list

:oldlol:

[3ba11]

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

Thanks.


RAPTOR includes all of that

PG >>>>> based on RAPTOR

and by a mile - Pippen usually averaged 16 ppg, aka role player.

[Phoenix]

RAPTOR includes all of that - PG >>>>>

and by a mile - Pippen usually averaged 16 ppg, aka role player

ER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

When you're ready.

[3ba11]

ER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

When you're ready.


RAPTOR includes all of that

PG >>>>> based on RAPTOR

and by a mile - Pippen usually averaged 16 ppg, aka role player.

accept the loss - every stat shows that Pippen is trash

[Phoenix]

RAPTOR includes all of that

PG >>>>> based on RAPTOR

and by a mile - Pippen usually averaged 16 ppg, aka role player.

accept the loss - every stat shows that Pippen is trash

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

Still waiting.......

[SouBeachTalents]

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

Still waiting.......
The fact he won't post those shows he's lying

[Phoenix]

The fact he won't post those shows he's lying

The hilarious part is him thinking I'm actually engaging him.

[Phoenix]

3ball, I've requested information. NOW.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0490202a3f3cf4645a89ea7f550b45e0/tenor.gif?itemid=12198276

midrange made Pippen do it

https://i.ibb.co/bbJNJLX/Ys1TqVi.gif

[Phoenix]

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM

Still waiting.......

3ball.....

https://media3.giphy.com/media/10MGhMGr4WCiVW/200.gif

[Phoenix]

BREAKING:Video footage of 3ball whenever he can't drop one of his copy and paste replies

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VigorousNiceBluebottle-max-1mb.gif

3nut has logged off. Bets on which alt shows up first? :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

BREAKING:Video footage of 3ball whenever he can't drop one of his copy and paste replies

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VigorousNiceBluebottle-max-1mb.gif

3nut has logged off. Bets on which alt shows up first? :oldlol:

Trailer of 3ba11's revenge:

https://3e7e6c34hre53ebyea38hmr6-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/giphy-11.gif

This is the scene he rushes home to make another MJ thread.

[SATAN]

:roll:

[Sportal]

Trailer of 3ba11's revenge:

https://3e7e6c34hre53ebyea38hmr6-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/giphy-11.gif

This is the scene he rushes home to make another MJ thread.

"rushes home" would suggest he actually has something else in his life other than posting on this forum on a dozen accounts.

[3ba11]

3ball.....

https://media3.giphy.com/media/10MGhMGr4WCiVW/200.gif


Career Rankings

PER:

Anthony Davis....3
Dwayne Wade......21
Kyrie Irving.....33
Kevin Love.......45
Chris Bosh.......62
Scottie Pippen...132
Horace Grant.....185


OBPM:

Anthony Davis....12
Kyrie Irving.....13
Dwayne Wade......25
Kevin Love.......29
Scottie Pippen...90
Chris Bosh.......102
Horace Grant.....107



WS/48:

Anthony Davis....13
Horace Grant.....55
Kevin Love.......57
Kyrie Irving.....68
Dwayne Wade......70
Chris Bosh.......76
Scottie Pippen...129


Ortg:

Horace Grant.....4 :biggums:
Anthony Davis....28
Kevin Love.......47
Kyrie Irving.....89
Chris Bosh.......107
Dwayne Wade......231
Scottie Pippen...NR top 250


Effective Field Goal Percentage:

Anthony Davis....86
Kyrie Irving.....99
Horace Grant.....206
Kevin Love.......225
Chris Bosh.......227
Scottie Pippen...244
Dwayne Wade......NR top 250


True Shooting:

Anthony Davis.....41
Kyrie Irving......84
Chris Bosh........89
Kevin Love........92
Dwayne Wade.......183
Dennis Rodman.....244 :rockon:
Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250 :facepalm
Horace Grant......NR top 250


BPM:

Anthony Davis.....12
Dwayne Wade.......22
Kyrie Irving...... 32
Scottie Pippen... 35
Kevin Love........48
Chris Bosh........134
Horace Grant......176


Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

Lebron fans...

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fl4Ki2ob CyAQS5WhFe%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Career Rankings

PER:

Anthony Davis....3
Dwayne Wade......21
Kyrie Irving.....33
Kevin Love.......45
Chris Bosh.......62
Scottie Pippen...132
Horace Grant.....185


OBPM:

Anthony Davis....12
Kyrie Irving.....13
Dwayne Wade......25
Kevin Love.......29
Scottie Pippen...90
Chris Bosh.......102
Horace Grant.....107



WS/48:

Anthony Davis....13
Horace Grant.....55
Kevin Love.......57
Kyrie Irving.....68
Dwayne Wade......70
Chris Bosh.......76
Scottie Pippen...129


Ortg:

Horace Grant.....4 :biggums:
Anthony Davis....28
Kevin Love.......47
Kyrie Irving.....89
Chris Bosh.......107
Dwayne Wade......231
Scottie Pippen...NR top 250


Effective Field Goal Percentage:

Anthony Davis....86
Kyrie Irving.....99
Horace Grant.....206
Kevin Love.......225
Chris Bosh.......227
Scottie Pippen...244
Dwayne Wade......NR top 250


True Shooting:

Anthony Davis.....41
Kyrie Irving......84
Chris Bosh........89
Kevin Love........92
Dwayne Wade.......183
Dennis Rodman.....244 :rockon:
Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250 :facepalm
Horace Grant......NR top 250


BPM:

Anthony Davis.....12
Dwayne Wade.......22
Kyrie Irving...... 32
Scottie Pippen... 35
Kevin Love........48
Chris Bosh........134
Horace Grant......176


Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

Lebron fans...

https://media.tenor.com/images/f748619af2b54bc06d083d436eebe003/tenor.gif


3bot researched the main stats, and for MULTIPLE players. Good luck Phoenix

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The last three rings now are all won by godly midrange shooters

Kawhi/AD/CP3/Booker

[Phoenix]

https://media.tenor.com/images/f748619af2b54bc06d083d436eebe003/tenor.gif


3bot researched the main stats, and for MULTIPLE players. Good luck Phoenix

Lol no luck necessary. Just taking like.....2 seconds copying and pasting the advanced stats line off basketball reference so that 3ball can go retrieve the data frothing at the mouth....I mean retrieve is a good term right? Like your dog retrieves the ball every time you throw it out for him at the park? 3nut thinks I'm here making an argument( look at my prior posts, do you see me actually saying anything that requires effort to go digging info:oldlol:).

[Phoenix]

Career Rankings

PER:

Anthony Davis....3
Dwayne Wade......21
Kyrie Irving.....33
Kevin Love.......45
Chris Bosh.......62
Scottie Pippen...132
Horace Grant.....185


OBPM:

Anthony Davis....12
Kyrie Irving.....13
Dwayne Wade......25
Kevin Love.......29
Scottie Pippen...90
Chris Bosh.......102
Horace Grant.....107



WS/48:

Anthony Davis....13
Horace Grant.....55
Kevin Love.......57
Kyrie Irving.....68
Dwayne Wade......70
Chris Bosh.......76
Scottie Pippen...129


Ortg:

Horace Grant.....4 :biggums:
Anthony Davis....28
Kevin Love.......47
Kyrie Irving.....89
Chris Bosh.......107
Dwayne Wade......231
Scottie Pippen...NR top 250


Effective Field Goal Percentage:

Anthony Davis....86
Kyrie Irving.....99
Horace Grant.....206
Kevin Love.......225
Chris Bosh.......227
Scottie Pippen...244
Dwayne Wade......NR top 250


True Shooting:

Anthony Davis.....41
Kyrie Irving......84
Chris Bosh........89
Kevin Love........92
Dwayne Wade.......183
Dennis Rodman.....244 :rockon:
Scoottie Pippen...NR top 250 :facepalm
Horace Grant......NR top 250


BPM:

Anthony Davis.....12
Dwayne Wade.......22
Kyrie Irving...... 32
Scottie Pippen... 35
Kevin Love........48
Chris Bosh........134
Horace Grant......176


Notice that all the real stats that are actually measuring something tangible (PER, OBPM, Ortg, WS/48, eFG%, TS%, etc) actually correlate very closely with one another in rankings. They all say that Pippen was maybe a top-100 offensive player all-time. Pippen wasn't even a Chris Bosh level offensive talent. Pippen wouldn't even be a top-three impact player compared to Lebron's teammates. All-time Pippen is just slightly better than Kevin Love.

In summation, in order for Lebron to be on the level of Jordan, he would need to win six titles and win six Finals MVP's with a Chris Bosh/Kevin Love level player as his second option.

Lebron fans...

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fl4Ki2ob CyAQS5WhFe%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM









































































VORP










































































RAPTOR






























































































Scottie




















































































Pippen
































































































* coffee in hand *

































































































































Go 3ball!

https://i.gifer.com/1LTn.gif

[000]

PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%
OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48
OBPM
DBPM
BPM









































































VORP










































































RAPTOR






























































































Scottie




















































































Pippen
































































































* coffee in hand *

































































































































Go 3ball!

https://i.gifer.com/1LTn.gif

2011

[Phoenix]

2011

Hi 3ball.

[000]

Hi 3ball.

Lebrons name was etched in history when he was outscored by a 34 yo bench player in a whole finals series

[Phoenix]

Lebrons name was etched in history when he was outscored by a 34 yo bench player in a whole finals series

Hi 3ball.

[000]

Hi 3ball.
2011

[Phoenix]

2011

3ball..........hi.

[000]

3ball..........hi.
2011

[Phoenix]

2011

Hi 3ball.

[Overdrive]

What are you laughing at - that post was all facts - high APG players don't win rings aside from a few exceptions - rings are mostly won by 5-7 apg players, and CP3 winning 1 chip after 2 decades proves my point

I posted MJ's assists stats in the OP to show that he can play and win with any style, even the suboptimal high-assist style


CP3 winning proves that Bron ball wins titles.

CP3 winning proves nothing about Lebron or Jordan. It only proves something about CP3.

3ball, none of your points will ever convince anyone of anything you say. Why keep posting?

[000]

Hi 3ball.
2011

[Bronbron23]

CP3 winning proves nothing about Lebron or Jordan. It only proves something about CP3.

3ball, none of your points will ever convince anyone of anything you say. Why keep posting?

Nah 3ball can come up with some pretty crazy mj takes but this one is a pretty good one. Alot of the criticism that i hear on here about mj is how his mid range game wouldn't bold well in an era where 3 has been deemed greater than long mid or long 2's. Cp is clearly destroying that narrative as did kawhi and kd somewhat before him.

[Phoenix]

2011

Sup mate.

[Phoenix]

CP3 winning proves nothing about Lebron or Jordan. It only proves something about CP3.

3ball, none of your points will ever convince anyone of anything you say. Why keep posting?

Monthly check to keep the site rolling. They've already pushed away alot of the genuine posters so we're left with this clown, his dopey alt 000 and whoever else to keep the clicks going. A mans gonna eat somehow.

[000]

Monthly check to keep the site rolling. They've already pushed away alot of the genuine posters so we're left with this clown, his dopey alt 000 and whoever else to keep the clicks going. A mans gonna eat somehow.
What do you think Lebrons statue in dallas will be of? How about terry nailing that late 4th quarter three over him?

[tpols]

All this is really reinforcing is that teams that allow their guards to playmake and their bigs to play finish have much better ball movement and team offenses.

Suns: 3rd rank in team assists
Bucks: 14th rank in team assists

I had hope for the bucks when giannis was a play finisher but now that he's spam dribbling isos again the bucks offense has been crippled. Its unnatural for your center or power forward to be your primary ball handler. That AAU style of "give it to the biggest fastest kid" loses at the championship level. Ball movement offenses are superior.

[And1AllDay]

Lebrons name was etched in history when he was outscored by a 34 yo bench player in a whole finals series

hi 3baLLLL make a new acct this one is caught

[000]

hi 3baLLLL make a new acct this one is caught
2011

[8Ball]

I drove 000 to insanity. This guy turned into a 3ball spam bot.


When Jordan stans run into 8ball, they lose their minds, too much truth is illuminated.

[000]

I drove 000 to insanity. This guy turned into a 3ball spam bot.


When Jordan stans run into 8ball, they lose their minds, too much truth is illuminated.
Tell me more about lebrons statue in dallas though. Why do you think it would be of the 2017 KD shot and not the 2011 terry shot? Once again youre not making any sense at all:confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

What do you think Lebrons statue in dallas will be of? How about terry nailing that late 4th quarter three over him?

Hi 3ball.

[Phoenix]

hi 3baLLLL make a new acct this one is caught

Dude follows 3ball around like a little french poodle, throwing around 2011 like I give a fukk

[000]

Dude follows 3ball around like a little french poodle, throwing around 2011 like I give a fukk
Eh, its pretty cool. I just bang a few keys and dumbasses like you instantly meltdown. Its like magic really:eek:

[Phoenix]

Eh, its pretty cool. I just bang a few keys and dumbasses like you instantly meltdown. Its like magic really:eek:

Meltdown.

[hateraid]

Nah 3ball can come up with some pretty crazy mj takes but this one is a pretty good one. Alot of the criticism that i hear on here about mj is how his mid range game wouldn't bold well in an era where 3 has been deemed greater than long mid or long 2's. Cp is clearly destroying that narrative as did kawhi and kd somewhat before him.

3ball is doing what 3ball does. Manipulate stats to his liking. Some come close to actual context. But usually is so far off target it makes him look delusional

[And1AllDay]

CP3 could win the title with mid-range (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phZ59pSXN6I&t=38s), which proves that MJ's goat mid-range would win every year and average 60 ppg

MJ averaged 31/7/11 in the 91' Finals without starting at point guard - so Jordan is a rich man's CP3

:roll::oldlol: what a loser

[3ba11]

:roll::oldlol: what a loser


Middleton is out-mid-ranging CP3 - either way, mid-range rules these Finals

Jordan would out-do both obviously and win every year

[And1AllDay]

Middleton is out-mid-ranging CP3 - either way, mid-range rules these Finals

Jordan would out-do both obviously and win every year

mike had a hard time beating the pistons, he went 1-4 against them the 1st time he faced defense

this modern era bucks with giannis, middleton, holiday, lopez is eating him alive and holding him to 22 on 38% like a bad 96 finals run

seek help :oldlol: mike cant shoot

[3ba11]

mike had a hard time beating the pistons, he went 1-4 against them the 1st time he faced defense

this modern era bucks with giannis, middleton, holiday, lopez is eating him alive and holding him to 22 on 38% like a bad 96 finals run

seek help :oldlol: mike cant shoot



88' Pippen.......... 8/5 and 0.7 blocks... 12 PER
05' Zydrunas'.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks... 19 PER


^^^ So Jordan is 1-4 against the Pistons with casts that were worst than Lebron's lottery casts in 05' (see stats above), while Lebron is 1-4 against the Warriors despite having super-teams

[000]

mike had a hard time beating the pistons, he went 1-4 against them the 1st time he faced defense

this modern era bucks with giannis, middleton, holiday, lopez is eating him alive and holding him to 22 on 38% like a bad 96 finals run

seek help :oldlol: mike cant shoot

Thats still better than 2007 finals lebron lol