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View Full Version : How long could have Magic played in the NBA if he didn't get HIV in 1991.



coastalmarker99
07-10-2021, 09:02 AM
Magic never wanted to retire in 1991 but deep down he had no choice. He'd been diagnosed with a disease, but it wasn't an injury. As far as I can tell, he was never symptomatic.


He was a top 5 player in 1990-91 and there was nothing physically keeping him from being a top 5-10 player in 1991-92 imo; or even, for that matter, in 1992-93 if his first comeback had gone ahead.

People just didn't know enough about HIV and were scared to play with him. His career was prematurely ended for reasons completely out of his control.

By the fall of 1995, with the HIV/AIDS cocktail emerging and the idea of HIV as a death sentence fading, and probably inspired by MJ's recent comeback in the Spring of that year, Magic considered attempting a comeback for the second time after the 1992 preseason failure.



He went back and forth in the early part of the season but finally decided in the affirmative after Lakers executive Jerry West told him that he was running out of time to be an NBA player. And so, on January 30, 1996, at the age of 36, in a home game against the Warriors, Magic came off the bench, played 27 minutes, and recorded 19 points, 10 assists, 8 rebounds, and 2 steals on 50% from the field.

Some people were quick to subsequently criticize Magic for being older, slower, and heavier during this comeback, and those things are all true, but...he was still a good player in spite of those things! Not what he was, but a good player!

In 32 regular-season games, he posted 14.6ppg, 6.9apg, 5.7rpg on +7.0% rTS in 29.9mpg. PER 36, that's 17.6 points, 8.3 assists, 6.9 rebounds, and 1 steal. He was even shooting 37% from 3. His 5.2 BPM was the highest on the team, as was his .181 WS/48.

In 4 playoff games, he posted 15.3ppg, 8.5rpg, and 6.5apg on +2.8% rTS in 33.8mpg. His 5.2 BPM was the second-highest on the team behind Eddie Jones, as was his .167 WS/48.


Magic was way down from his peak years but still pretty good. His PER, WS/48, and BPM were basically even with his rookie year but below his peak. Compared to his peers in 1995-96, here’s where Magic ranked (assuming he had played enough to qualify for the leaderboards):

-His 21.1 PER would’ve been 15th in the NBA, just ahead of Scottie Pippen and just below John Stockton

-His .181 WS/48 would’ve been 17th just ahead of….Cedric Ceballos(!) (and Detlef Schrempf).

-The 5.2 BPM would’ve been about tied for 11th with Mookie Blaylock.

-A full season of VORP would’ve put him in line with Kenny Anderson or Kevin Johnson (about 20th in the NBA).

In other words, old and slow Magic was a border line All-Star.


I'll repeat that last line for emphasis: Old and slow Magic was a borderline All-Star. For him to play as well as he did, at 36 years of age, after not playing for 3.5 years is as much proof of his greatness as anything else IMO.

And he did this while playing with some youngsters who probably were not as appreciative as they could've been for the opportunity to play with a top 10 all-time guy.

And1AllDay
07-10-2021, 09:12 AM
imagine your one good ring is against an aids patient with a injured #2 option and no kareem :oldlol:

:oldlol: you cant make it up

coastalmarker99
07-10-2021, 09:23 AM
imagine your one good ring is against an aids patient with a injured #2 option and no kareem :oldlol:

:oldlol: you cant make it up


Can you please stop trolling as I don't want this thread to turn into another Jordan vs Lebron debate as we are here to talk about Magic and not those two players.

And1AllDay
07-10-2021, 09:48 AM
Can you please stop trolling as I don't want this thread to turn into another Jordan vs Lebron debate as we are here to talk about Magic and not those two players.

my bad your right

magic coulda had more good runs if his health didnt fade

possibly another finals run since the west was meh and clyde made it in 92'
even tho barkley suns was mvp in 93 i could see another battle with lakers

coastalmarker99
07-10-2021, 10:12 AM
my bad your right

magic coulda had more good runs if his health didnt fade

possibly another finals run since the west was meh and clyde made it in 92'
even tho barkley suns was mvp in 93 i could see another battle with lakers


Yeah, I can see that it would have been interesting if the Lakers with Magic not retired had attempted to trade for Barkley or Hakeem.



Barkley and Magic along with Worthy most likely gets the Lakers into the 1993 finals but is that enough to beat peak Jordan and the Bulls i am not so sure.

FKAri
07-10-2021, 10:46 AM
The early 90s would've been even more amazing with a healthy Bird and Magic. Crazy to think.

Clifton
07-10-2021, 10:55 AM
The early 90s would've been even more amazing with a healthy Bird and Magic. Crazy to think.
Yeah. It's too bad-- both should have had 3-4 more good years. Imagine if Lebron had retired after the '14 finals.

TheCorporation
07-10-2021, 11:33 AM
The early 90s would've been even more amazing with a healthy Bird and Magic. Crazy to think.

I'd definitely rather see a Finals with Bird or Magic instead of Clyde Drexler or Shawn Kemp. What could've been.

As for OP, Magic's career took a health turn for the worst after making 9 Finals, that kind of success takes its toll on the body. Not to mention his diagnosis as well.

JBSptfn
07-10-2021, 02:41 PM
The early 90s would've been even more amazing with a healthy Bird and Magic. Crazy to think.

Along with Len Bias and a healthy Sabonis coming to Portland around 1990 instead of 95 (although, if Bias lived, Bird said that he would have retired after the 1987-88 season).

3ba11
07-10-2021, 02:48 PM
The wonderful thing is that Jordan would've gotten to ragdoll Magic a few more times, which would've protected his legacy against today's revisionist historians who lie that he didn't beat good competition (as if Magic/Worthy, Shaq/Penny, Stockton/Malone, or Payton/Kemp aren't better duos in their prime than Lebron ever defeated.

90sgoat
07-10-2021, 03:55 PM
I remember Magic having that comeback season in 1996, it was a big deal, precisely what you said, because Jordan was back.

In a way it was weird right, the league needing these "old timers", to come back, but never the less it was actually true.

His games from that season are on Youtube. It's only highlights, but he looks damn good.

Started as a point guard, but was quickly moved to power forward.

Which also makes me think that's what he would be playing had he continued. As a power forward in the slow 90s, he would have been able to have a long career. He was, after all, an elite back to basket player, elite at passing out of the double, all the skills that defined the 90s power forward position.

Having played with Kareem, even having an efficient baby skyhook, I think he could have had a Karl Malone like senior career. Probably would have made it to 40 and broken all kinds of records.

jlip
07-10-2021, 08:09 PM
Without HIV, I'm fairly certain Magic had at least two to three 18/6/11 seasons left in him.

Phoenix
07-11-2021, 07:09 AM
He was 2nd in MVP voting in 91 posting 19/13/7, all in line with his career averages. He had slowed down in terms of pace( who doesn't after 30 outside of Russell Westbrook) but was still a top 4 player when he retired. Should have had a good 2-3 years left at 91 level. Bear in mind he came back fat at 36 with 4 years of rust and was still half-way decent.

ClipperRevival
07-11-2021, 10:48 PM
Magic's 1991 was one of his best ever in terms of maximizing every ounce of talent out of that team. The Lakers had no business beating the Blazers in the WCF that year. Portland was seen as the up and coming team and the Lakers as an old, fading team. Let's not forget, Portland made the finals in 1990 and 1992, and they should've made it in 1991 too which would've made it 3 straight finals, no easy task when the WC was stacked at the time.

So having said that, to me, Magic wasn't THAT far off from his peak in 1991. And his SKILLS were getting better and better as he aged, like his shooting, FT shooting, post moves, etc. And his game wasn't based on athleticism so he wouldn't have fallen off a cliff like others who did. I think without HIV, he remains a dominant player at least 3 more years and a very, very good impactful player starting around the age of 35+ onward.

One thing most young people don't realize about Magic is how dominant Magic could be offensively when he chose to do it. But he always played a team first approach. But he had that arsenal in his bag. He could defer as the GOAT passer or play half court offense through him via the post. Magic was without a doubt one of the GOAT floor raisers ever. Heck, perhaps even THE GOAT floor raiser when you consider leadership, intangibles, passing, size, post game, clutchness, etc. Magic was just a WINNER.